Rae Woods: From Advisory Board, we're bringing you a Radio Advisory. My name is Rachel Woods. You can call me Rae. We wanted to round out Women's History Month with an episode that takes a harder look at the state of women in the healthcare industry. Although there are more women in the healthcare industry overall, few women and women of color advance to senior leadership positions. Rae Woods: Today, I want to talk about the steps that organizations can take to change that. To do that, I've brought Erickajoy Daniels, the SVP and Chief Diversity Equity and Inclusion Officer at Advocate Aurora. Hey Erickajoy. Erickajoy Daniels: Hello. How are you, Rachel? Rae Woods: I am excellent, but you know, you can call me Rae. That's what everybody calls me here, so feel free to. Erickajoy Daniels: I can, okay. If I get a pass, I'm going for it. Rae Woods: Have you ever been on a podcast before? Erickajoy Daniels: I have. All health-related, so I'm excited about, this is still healthcare but it's getting a little bit more personal and close to home, so I'm looking forward to this. Rae Woods: I love it when we get a season veteran on the podcast, not least of all, because it makes the equipment and the recording process a little bit easier. Rae Woods: We are talking about women in leadership in healthcare, and I'm cognizant of the fact that you are a woman and a leader at your organization. I want to start by kicking things over to you. What has your personal experience been like, particularly as a black woman in the healthcare space? Erickajoy Daniels: Interestingly enough, most of my career I've either been the youngest or the only. Only female or the only person of color, and developing that muscle to trudge through and drive forward. In healthcare there's something a little bit different, I think being in a purpose-driven environment. But I still recognize the challenges that are faced with being one of not that many. Erickajoy Daniels: I'm representing myself without trying to have to represent all who look like me or have background like me. That's a weight that I tried not to carry but a responsibility that I do feel like I need to pay attention to. Rae Woods: You've already mentioned a red flag that I think we will warn our audience of, which is asking people to carry the weight of all people who look like them or who identify as them. That's where I want to go next. Before we talk about the right answers when it comes to workforce diversity and inclusion, I am willing to bet that there are some myths or misconceptions that you want to bust from the start. What do most folks get wrong when they think about workforce DEI? Erickajoy Daniels: That's just about black people. Or it's about, we create labels quickly around the underserved and the under, under, under this, under that, right? Rae Woods: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erickajoy Daniels: It can lead to this conception that it means less than. You're right, well, if we're going to conclude no more diversity, we'll take a chance on folks. Well, really any hire you make, you're taking a chance on unless you personally know them. Or we're going to lower our standards. Those are absolutely not the same criteria. We don't want to reduce excellent, we don't want to lower standards or lower any bars. It's just about getting the fair share of talent who come from amazingly different packages into the organization. I think those are really important for leaders to understand. Rae Woods: That's such an important one. I will admit to you that I got that pushback, I'm not kidding, a few days ago. When it came to the same conversation about women in leadership and somebody had the concern of... I think their question was, how do we balance elevating women to leadership positions and giving them positions that they aren't prepared for or aren't ready for? My instinct was, this is not a problem. This is not the problem that you think it is. Erickajoy Daniels: Preparation is not the issue, right. Rae Woods: What would you have said to that person? Erickajoy Daniels: Sometimes I try to come from a place of curiosity if I can hold back, if I can restrain some of my concern or frustration. But it's what makes you think that they're not prepared? Or how do you define preparation? Because I think women have had experience in ridiculously amazing places that have led to a preparation that some people just couldn't touch, and sometimes that's missed. Rae Woods: And it's exactly to the point you made earlier, which is that creating a more diverse, equitable and inclusive workplace is not about elevating people who weren't prepared or giving somebody the shot. Like you said, that is not the purpose at all. It's about creating systems and structures that are equitable to all and not prioritizing one group over another. Erickajoy Daniels: And finding what's missing from the organization. It's why also going to come from when people say, well, what about diversity of thought? There is diversity of thought, but guess what, the diversity of my thought comes because of the diverse package I'm in. My background, my cultural awareness, my understanding, my lived experience is what contributes to my diversity of thought. Let's go there and not slip into the slippery place of, well, all we really need is diversity of thought. The thought comes from the package or from the experience. Rae Woods: Are there other red flags that you've experienced or you've heard from other organizations that you want our listeners to be aware of when it comes to this initiative? Erickajoy Daniels: Yeah. I think it's understanding what people have that they bring, even if it's not your experience. For example, there may be associations that a person of color is a part of. Just because you haven't heard of it, it doesn't mean that it's not powerful or fully understanding when someone says, I have this collateral duty or I've got this community involvement, this leadership. Erickajoy Daniels: Instead of making the assumption, ask more questions. Be curious and understand what does someone have to bring to bear? The other thing too, is I get uncomfortable when people share that someone doesn't fit in the organization. If we're not careful and dig deep into that, fit can be used as an easy answer to address what difference, being a part of a culture, being a part of an environment. Some things that may seemingly quote, unquote, not fit, maybe the best fit for what we need. Rae Woods: Do you want to know one of my favorite pieces of advice I've ever been given when it came to my own hiring practice? I'm curious to see if you agree with this. Erickajoy Daniels: Sure. Okay. Rae Woods: The advice was, don't assume that the right person to hire is the person who is the most like you. Erickajoy Daniels: Absolutely. Rae Woods: Which reminds me exactly what you said of this person maybe doesn't fit. That if you're just looking for somebody else reflected in yourself or looking for yourself reflected in the candidate, you are immediately going to operate with bias. That reminds me of- Erickajoy Daniels: Absolutely. Rae Woods: ... your fit comment. Erickajoy Daniels: And you'll miss something. Think about this. In processes, in efficiencies, we want to remove redundancy. Then why are we redundant in our talent selection? You know what I mean? Rae Woods: Wow. Erickajoy Daniels: When I staff a team, I look for what's missing. What do I not have? It's like baking a cake and what ingredient do I not yet have that can make this even more amazing? Every person on my team I've found, they're attributes that I don't have and I'm excited about it because I think it just blends and make something even more amazing. Rae Woods: I love that so much. Okay, let's talk about Advocate Aurora specifically. I find that there's two ways to think about equitable strategies in general, especially when it comes to something like DEI. There are the programs that organizations put in place and also the kind of structural changes that they embed throughout the organization. Let's start by talking about the programs. What efforts at Advocate Aurora have had the biggest impact in advancing women and women of color in leadership? Erickajoy Daniels: I'll back up a little bit too because at one of the things that really grounds us to even get to designing the best programs that can get the best results is having the best data. Because we need to understand what are we programming to solve, what are we trying to address, what gaps are we trying to close and what are we really aiming to make a difference of? Rae Woods: Let's go into the data piece first. What are the missing pieces of the puzzle that you need to even determine what the right programs or structures you need to put in place are? Erickajoy Daniels: Absolutely. Rae, I think of diversity equity, inclusion. Equity is really about closing gaps. You got to know what those gaps actually are and your data tells you exactly what that means. Because your data becomes a roadmap. It's your instructions? Turn left here, turn right here, meander here, because this is the place we need to address. Erickajoy Daniels: Looking at the data that already exists in the business and stratifying it by dimensions of diversity. Whether we're looking at things like race and ethnicity or we're looking at age or gender or tenure, let's get a really micro level view of what we have and what we don't have. Then you create the programs to address those specific gaps. Rae Woods: What data would you consider essential to informing these strategies? Erickajoy Daniels: Absolutely. If you're looking at your representation, you've got to know who you have and who you don't have. On the inside of the house, you look at your data and your workforce and you can estimate. You can look by levels, by geography, by markets, by site, by business, by function. Erickajoy Daniels: Break your workforce composition down by race and ethnicity. Break it down by gender and get your proportionate numbers to understand what percentage of my population comes from a certain background. Then on the outside, you'll look and see what's available in the marketplace. Those are continued to be the gaps that you can assess to address. Rae Woods: I appreciate your push towards specificity here, because I get afraid sometimes when it comes to data that truthfully data can tell you the story that you want it to tell. I get worried with organizations that are just focusing on this problem now, that they're being too broad in how they cut the data, frankly so it doesn't look as bad. Rae Woods: As an example, I hear a lot of organizations lumping all people of color together when they're assessing their DEI efforts thus far. What I'm hearing you say is that doing so is maybe not the right answer. You've got to get to be a little bit more specific. Erickajoy Daniels: Yes, yes, you should. People of color may end up being your full category if you've identified who's included in that label. If you understand that the makeup of a number of different dimensions of diversity all have opportunities for improvement, and then you say collectively we will work on them. But you can't have one-size-fits-all strategies. I can't go in and connect with a Hispanic/Latino community organization and expect to find an individual who is from the Hmong community, right? Rae Woods: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erickajoy Daniels: I need to understand where my needs are so that I can also stand who I'm partnering with, what information is needed and what ideas can be brought out from those groups to help me to co-design for solutions. Rae Woods: Beyond having the internal data of what you have and your gaps are, are there other pieces of data that you would encourage folks to look for? Again, if we're thinking about advancing women and women of color into leadership positions beyond understanding what you have, are there other critical pieces of information that you need to inform that strategy? Erickajoy Daniels: Yeah. I would say almost figure out what are your, I'll say healthcare terms, your vital signs of what makes your workforce go well. Those are things like our promotion, our turnover, our retention. You can even look at, there's research that shows that how long someone's been sitting in a position. If their time and position is lagging and is lingering and they can't seem to move up, all of those points we can look at, but then again, micro view, always stratified and understand it. Rae Woods: Because if they're sitting in the position too long, there may be likely to leave and not advance to the level of leadership or senior leadership that we want them to get to. Erickajoy Daniels: Absolutely. And they potentially have been overlooked. A lot of promotions and advancements or connections can happen because of familiarity. If you're not in someone's purview or their proximity, you may not be up for consideration or aware of the next opportunity, or your skills and abilities shinning for someone else to say, "Have you seen Rae? Do you know what Rae can do? We need to pull her into this project." Then that project becomes a promotion. That promotion becomes career advancement. Rae Woods: I love that you called them vital signs and I'm totally going to shamelessly steal that, because I think that makes sense for the healthcare community. The vital signs we need to be looking at are promotion, turnover, time and position. What else am I missing? Erickajoy Daniels: Engagement. Rae Woods: Big one. Erickajoy Daniels: Here's the thing, they're not singularly diversity measures. Those are measures that matter to any CHRO, any Chief Human Resource Officer, any organization that wants to have a good pulse of understanding of their bench, of their workforce, of the people that make their engine work. It's just a matter of looking at it through an equity lens. Rae Woods: Now let's apply that data to the strategy. That brings me back to programs. I think that some programmatic responses get a bad rap, but they do have their place when they are tied to specific goals. When it comes to this intersectional approach to advancing women into senior leadership roles, what programs have you seen or have you implemented that have been the most successful? Erickajoy Daniels: Even if I go back in time, we had a program at one time that was called the Chance Program. It was a way for us to get team members of color who had higher degrees. In fact, ones that we supported through our tuition reimbursement program, who were lingering in their roles just to get exposure. They just needed exposure and a view on who they were. We put them in some cross-functional higher level visibility projects, where leaders got to see, "Where have you been?" It was just the chance for visibility and that served us well. Rae Woods: Wait, this is so interesting to me. Because I think most organizations at this point have something akin to a women in leadership program. But when I think about the way that they bring in women into those programs, limited number of seats, is that they probably just ask managers for recommendations and a handful of people are elevated into that program. Rae Woods: But to come back to data, it sounds like that's not how this happened and instead you looked at time and seat and tried to identify who are people who could potentially benefit the most from this program and started. Erickajoy Daniels: Yes, yes, yes. Beyond the program, it becoming a practice. Being very intentional in our talent review. Do we have everyone on our radar? In our succession planning, like who's really been estimated and identified as a high potential that could really rise and shine? Even in formal mentoring. How do we get more leaders to spend time with individuals that they otherwise may never have crossed their paths? Just to get that awareness? Rae Woods: Are there other programs that you're particularly proud of that have made a big impact beyond the Chance Program? Erickajoy Daniels: Yes. We have a number of leadership development programs that I'm really proud of us that we have integrated, leading inclusively into the framework of how we're developing leaders to drive. Also the selection of individuals that go into those leadership development programs is very intentional methodical to make sure that we are covering our bases and ensuring that all people are on our radar. Rae Woods: What is the process? Erickajoy Daniels: We are able to scan through our talent review process, our high-potential leaders, and there's honest candid conversation to challenge leaders to say, "Are you looking at your succession plans like you will look at a recruitment slate? Are you seeing diversity?" If you don't see diversity, maybe we should inquire within and see who's missing. Or having leaders share names with each other and have greater conversations so that people can connect across areas of the business. Because you don't have to be a high-potential leader identified and finance and be missed if you're working in operations, right? Rae Woods: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erickajoy Daniels: Having leaders who will run our talent review discussions to have cross-functional conversations really helps that. Rae Woods: Again, I want to come back to misconceptions and myths. We know that programs can't solve this alone, and we'll get to the structural changes in a moment, but having led successful programs, is there advice you would give to listeners of this podcast on what to avoid about the programs that maybe aren't so successful? Erickajoy Daniels: I might connect that back to the data, Rae, that's not only should you collect the quantitative, measurable metrics, but the qualitative data and getting insight from the individuals you're looking to benefit. People who were trying to support can tell us a whole lot about what works and doesn't work well for them. Or what they're looking for. I think that there's nothing wrong with getting insight from those who you want to serve, to prepare to serve them best. Erickajoy Daniels: Another practice we have is we have a DEI reactor panel. We have a cross-functional team of leaders that we run these programs and concepts by and they give us great real-time feedback and connection and insight so that we're not creating anything in a bubble or an isolation. That's been phenomenal. Erickajoy Daniels: Then it also enables us to get the word on the things that we're doing out there, into operations and into the field and at the hospitals. Because people are speaking about the things that they'd been pulled into, where their voices mattered and where they've contributed. Erickajoy Daniels: Rae, there's one more program I would bring up because even being in the organization, the intentionality that we've had when we're recruiting talent. We recognize that someone coming in blindly into an organization, they may have questions or it may... We don't want them to stumble of orienting themselves to the organization. We created an ambassador program. Erickajoy Daniels: Where individuals from diverse backgrounds are paired with an ambassador. It doesn't have to mean a one-for-one, like if I'm a black woman, I would have initially had to get a black woman. But I get someone from this pool of ambassadors who are identifies as inclusive leaders and they helped me navigate, navigate the organization. If I've moved, it could be as simple as something in navigating the community. Rae Woods: Wow. Erickajoy Daniels: I can't go to, I don't want to give product place, but to every hair cut to replace, to get my hair done. As African-American woman, I need a good stylist. I might be going into a geography where I need someone to connect me or where to connect my kids or what community organizations can I be a part of, and that has served us well as well. Rae Woods: I love that example because we know that it can be especially hard to recruit at the senior leadership level. Because you're bringing in somebody from another organization who doesn't quite know the ins and outs and the culture, et cetera. It's a good reminder that that can be that much more difficult, maybe is the phrase I'm trying to say, for certain groups of people. In order to make the transition easier, have something like an ambassador program. I love that. Erickajoy Daniels: Absolutely. Absolutely. Rae Woods: I want to talk about the structural changes because as beneficial as these individual programs are, we also know that if we're going to make real change at the senior leadership level, we have to address the policies and the processes and the systems that we actually have in place. Again, I'm going to ask you what changes have had the most impact when it comes to these structural changes? Erickajoy Daniels: Absolutely. It was really important for us to take a hard, fast candid look at what are we doing to contribute to any disparate outcomes? What inequities do we own that we're responsible for paying attention to? I think just alone, having more crucial candid conversations. Leaders say, we need to even have a decision filter that we look at our approaches through. Then identify let's let's... It's one thing we've signed some external commitments, which a lot of people did in 2020 and- Rae Woods: Sure. Erickajoy Daniels: ... we pledged to do this. But we're like, "That pledge only makes a difference if we're actually making the changes inside." We committed to reviewing policies to a number of policies that we would review and revise appropriately. One example was our code of conduct. Does our code of conduct, one, explicitly speak to what we mean about being anti-racist? Does it truly hold individuals accountable for behaviors even off duty? Rae Woods: These are changes you made this year? Erickajoy Daniels: Yes, yes, in 2020. Yes. When you think about it, we all shifted in the world to this remote work and it's almost like social media became the virtual water cooler. The lines are gray between is that happened on-work or off-work? Is someone representing themselves? Are they when their badge on their social media page? We did not take that lightly. Erickajoy Daniels: We redesigned and reevaluate into a new statement, an equitable statement that addressed misconduct and what we were not going to stand for, and how we were going to be deliberate, and with what we call team member attestation. People have to attest to the fact that they recognize that this is important to us. Rae Woods: Oh my goodness. Who needed to be involved in making this happen? Because one of the challenges I'm hearing as part of my research is that oftentimes there is one loud passionate voice who is trying to arm wrestle their other executives or other leaders into making this happen. First of all, was that your experience and who needed to be involved in making this very proactive change? Erickajoy Daniels: One thing that I do enjoy at Advocate Aurora is our intention and spirit of our collaboration. It was a collaborative, I won't call it a Motley Crue, but it was a collaborative crew. We had people from HR, from DNI, from legal, from risk. We had a leader from operations. Rae Woods: Wow. Erickajoy Daniels: We had someone in finance to really say, let's wrestle this through together. Everything from the implication of what could happen as a result of doing this. Even our public affairs and marketing team. It was a really rounded out crew where we first just had the conversation. Like, what are we seeing? What do we need to do about it? We didn't go straight pen to paper, which I really appreciate it. We didn't to go say let's offer the statement. Erickajoy Daniels: But we have the conversations first. Then we were able to then propose to our leadership. I think our proposal, coming from a place of collaboration and also from, we took the time to do the homework outside to see what other organizations were doing in and outside of our industry. We were able to bring something forward that they say, "We recognize and appreciate your leadership around this." And to get their endorsement and support. Rae Woods: It also requires I think some real vulnerability to say, despite... Especially on your part, as the head of diversity, equity and inclusion, to say what we've done thus far isn't enough. And so I want to collaborate and make this promise to do better. That takes massive vulnerability to say that out loud. Erickajoy Daniels: Absolutely. Absolutely. That's what makes this work... When it becomes challenging and becomes a weight, those moves refuel me. Rae Woods: I want to come back to the structural changes. Beyond the newest level of changes that you all have implemented this year, what are some of the core principles that any organization needs to embed into their workforce strategy to make sure that they are appropriately elevating women and women of color into leadership positions? Erickajoy Daniels: I would say listening, understanding, understanding your organization first. I'll go back to something you said Rae, about being transparent. Being really open to the fact that we may uncover some things that really need our attention. It's not about asking for apologies, but it's saying, this is the action we're taking forward based on what we know. Because once you know, you have to do something. Erickajoy Daniels: I think that it really starts with the mindset. That's important because most people want to start with strategies. Let's build a strategy, let's build a plan, let's put a program. But you've got to make sure that the mindset is in the right place. Otherwise, any strategy you try to implement will be short changed will never be sustainable. Rae Woods: I also think it comes back to what you were talking about with the vital signs. Those matter when it comes to building your programs. But you also need to address things like succession planning and mobility and recruitment and what kind of flexible work arrangements do you have in your strategy in general in order to make progress? Not just in these individual programs? Erickajoy Daniels: Absolutely. Absolutely. If you can raise things to be a strategic imperative, where it becomes part of what's paid attention to in the business versus the separate initiative, then as my grandmother would say, then you're cooking with gas. Rae Woods: Do you have any results of the program that you... Or I should say the broader initiative that you'd like to share? How much have you been able to inflect women and women of color in leadership positions? Erickajoy Daniels: Absolutely. Our hiring rate of 49% last year showed us that we were really, really moving the needle on increasing representation. We set goals for ourselves around diversity, equity and inclusion and tie them to our incentive plans. That's a huge statement. We're committed- Rae Woods: That's a structural change. Erickajoy Daniels: ... so much. That's a structural change. We're committed so much that your summer boathouse money could be effective. It also to me was a demonstration of shared ownership. The joy I have, we have an impact report that we do issue we've been doing for four years. Even this past year, even in the midst of pandemics, the things that we were able to achieve and the results and outcomes really tell the story of shared ownership. That report is not the work of a single department, which is what I love. It's a story of multiple owners advancing diversity, equity and inclusion. That really shows where when you make the investment, that things can really happen. Rae Woods: One of the interesting parts to me of Advocate Aurora's story is that not that long ago, it was Advocate, one organization, Aurora, a separate organization, and then in 2018, went through a pretty major merger. I can imagine that it can be quite difficult to link things like culture, some of these programs we've talked about, some of these structural practices that we've talked about, when it comes to our DEI goals. What did being part of that merger teach you about how to build a system that really benefits people? Erickajoy Daniels: Yes, interesting. If I look back on my career, so when I first came to Aurora, it was about building. The program, the work didn't exist. Then we encountered a merger and I got to build again. That was exciting for me. It's crazy because I'm the the handy woman in the house. I love building stuff. My dad used to do that with us together. My son calls me Roberta the builder. Erickajoy Daniels: It was exciting to get to a place to say, what do we get to build now together for a larger geography and with a bigger team? Fundamentally, it was apparent that at the core of both of our organizations, that this was a priority. We were able to assemble whether it was formal programs or just personal interest across two geographies to say, "As a singular system, what will we go after and how will we make this impactful?" Rae Woods: I imagine you could probably learn from each other. I imagine you being part of Aurora, got to learn from the hits and the misses of Advocate, and vice versa. Erickajoy Daniels: And being open enough to learn, absolutely, and share what those things were with each other. Rae Woods: Beyond just reflecting on the past, I do want to give you a moment to talk about the future. When it comes to initiatives like the ones we've been talking about in this intersectional approach to advancing women in leadership, what is next for Advocate Aurora? Erickajoy Daniels: We're not letting our foot off on the gas on the work. We're raising our attention and determination around health equity. Even as it relates to women, we think about things like maternal health. We think about behavioral health and access. Even just today, we had a live-well session, focused again, for Women's History Month around understanding and recognizing that women play such a key role in decision making in their households. And so how do we provide that support? Erickajoy Daniels: Continued education, continued connection in the community, but really looking at health equity in a broader standpoint. What interventions, not just from a clinical standpoint but partnerships with communities, can we do? What can we do differently to re-imagine what health care looks like? How do we be proactive and think about wellness versus just sick care. I do see us on the horizon of raising the bar there. Rae Woods: To your point, diversity, equity, inclusion is a key feature, but just a feature of a broader health equity strategy. It makes sense that those two things must be linked moving forward. Erickajoy Daniels: Absolutely. Absolutely. Rae Woods: You have obviously been a leader at the forefront of this for some time, but I want to ask you about the folks that maybe aren't living and breathing and thinking about DEI every day. What do you want to see from advocates or allies, especially, let's say, the white male leaders who tend to make up the majority of leadership positions in the workforce. What is the role of them in advancing women and women of color in leadership? Erickajoy Daniels: Allyship is so important because it really means that someone wants to dive into the work and jump along and not observe. I think the best allies that I have are those who have... And I say this often, who are authentically curious. That even when they recognize, "I may not be fully competent but I'm curious enough to know what can I do differently?" Erickajoy Daniels: It starts from a very personal place. It's understanding there may be things that we are grew up learning that we need to shift our thinking on. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Well, maybe do unto others as they would have you do to them. Because what I may desire may not be what another person desires. Erickajoy Daniels: I think allies who come from a personal place, allies who don't try to be anything but who they are. You don't have to change who, your identity or the things you listened to or what you watch. It's just a matter of saying, how do we co-design to at least make our circle of our world just a little bit different? Erickajoy Daniels: I also think it's interesting when allies allow diversity, equity, inclusion to really get to other parts of their life. When I have an ally who says, I'm not just trying to learn for Advocate Aurora but can you help me understand with my children? Or this community organization I'm a part of, where could I volunteer? Opening themselves up for that kind of discovery is really powerful. Rae Woods: I have to tell you, now that we are at the end of Women's History Month, that one of the most frustrating things for me has always been to go to events that are about supporting women or about women in leadership, and I look around the room, this was obviously much easier to tell in pre-pandemic days, and I would only see women. I would only see people who looked like me or who identify with the challenges that frankly I face as well. Rae Woods: We've talked about this on this podcast before, that if women or people of color could challenge the systems around us and solve those problems ourselves, we would have done it already. We need more of these allies and advocates, but my question for you is, how do you actually get them? How do you actually push a group of white male leaders to be allies and ambassadors for their colleagues? Erickajoy Daniels: Can I be transparent? Rae Woods: Yes. Erickajoy Daniels: One thing I found that I wasn't even doing, I wasn't asking. I was expecting and I was frustrated when they didn't. I had some leaders that I was around that said, "If you would only ask." Now, part me it's like, "Hey, you know what I'm trying to do here. Jump in." But I think asking, asking very intentionally too. With a strong why. I need you in this work. Erickajoy Daniels: Here's the thing, I need to learn from you as much as you need to learn from me. There's little in the world that can be learned from one track discovery and I think that's important. I also think of sharing with people that there's a lot of ways to learn. Your programs and your educational series in your webinars aren't the only place to learn about different. But going to an event, watching a movie. Erickajoy Daniels: I've had leaders that have asked, "Hey, would you watch Selma with me? Or if you watch it, can we talk about it?" They're the less... To me those are lower risk-engagements. Or seeing something on the news. What did you think? Can I share with you what I think? We actually did a mirror of that when we held these real talk sessions. Erickajoy Daniels: We had forums where people just, it wasn't a debate and it wasn't a thin for your view. It's just to make sure that your view was shared with someone else and their view was shared with you. Those provided, I think, a different platform and a springboard for people to have open dialogue. Rae Woods: I can't tell if you are giving advice to our listeners or if you are literally just giving advice to me right now. Possibly it's both and that's okay. Erickajoy Daniels: It's shared. It's shared. And to myself too. Rae Woods: I want to give you a moment and speak, not to other leaders like yourself, not to other DEI leads, but actually directly to CEOs. To the decision makers across the healthcare industry. What do you want to see more from them when it comes to supporting workforce diversity efforts? Erickajoy Daniels: I would say, please be open. Please be open and recognize that there is room for improvement for us all. I would reassure them that moving and shifting from current mindsets to new mindsets of inclusion does not make someone a label that they're a racist that need to change. That is absolutely not the case. Rae Woods: Could I jump in and say, by the way, I'm glad that you said that. Because I was speaking to a group of DEI leads the other day who literally called the word racism the R-word. The word that they weren't allowed to say at work. I was like, "Oh my God, what a red flag if you can't say that." So I'm glad that you went there. Erickajoy Daniels: That word makes a lot of people uncomfortable on both sides, on all sides, just to say that, for it to be said or to hear it. But acknowledging things need to be changed, the only thing that says is that you're a leader who is a student enough to know that you want to have a mindset of continuous improvement to begin. Erickajoy Daniels: I would ask leaders, think about all the other places where you don't tolerate enough. Where you don't tolerate meeting expectations is going to make you win. Where you don't tolerate doing just the status quo. Just transform that determination into the work of diversity, equity, inclusion. I would say, and then just find a partner who safely and privately can provide a safe space for you to stumble. Who would give you the grace and permission to say the things that you may not be able to stay on platforms and stages and in talking points. Erickajoy Daniels: Find an advocate. Allies aren't just for the person of color but it's a mutually beneficial relationship. Find someone to discover that with. You don't have to do this journey by yourself. Find another counterpart who can hold you accountable and to challenge you. Be okay that all the metrics around this work aren't seized upon or are not all black and white. There's measures around this that come with qualitative insight, that come with what's uncomfortable with ambiguity, but just try. Rae Woods: Can I cheat and add one for CEO's also? Erickajoy Daniels: Sure. Rae Woods: Mine is to not put it all on the diversity, equity, inclusion officer or chief health equity officer. I think even as you're searching for that ally or that person to be vulnerable with, that also does not mean that you need to look to that person to teach you everything that you need to know about- Erickajoy Daniels: Absolutely. Rae Woods: ... diversity, equity, inclusion, or for goodness sake, give them some more resources. Some more people who- Erickajoy Daniels: Exactly. Rae Woods: ... can support this problem. Erickajoy Daniels: It does. People call the notion of black tax. That's a weight, that's an unnecessary burden to place on people. I think that tax can be labeled for any dimension of diversity, so don't get me wrong. But if you really want to grow the muscle, just think, you don't ask your personal trainer to do the reps. The personal trainer advisers you, supports you, guides you, challenges you, but if you're the one getting the muscle, they're not the ones lifting the weights. Just saying. Rae Woods: That is such a good analogy. I'm going to shamelessly steal that. Erickajoy Daniels: I know. I'm not the right that went down myself. Rae Woods: That's a good one. We talked about the vital signs. Erickajoy Daniels: That would have dropped in my heart, so- Rae Woods: Well, Erickajoy, I want to thank you so much for coming on Radio Advisory and having a really candid conversation about this problem. That is top of mind for now, but we want to make sure it continues to be top of mind even after March is over. Rae Woods: I do have one final question for you. It is the question that I end every podcast with. It's a chance for you to give an action item to our listeners. When it comes to advancing women and women of color leadership positions, what's the one thing you want our listeners to focus on right now? Erickajoy Daniels: I want them to know the gaps. If I could go back to my days of travel, where we could, and in the UK, when you get on the to, when it says, "Mind the gap." I just want people to mind the gap because people are stumbling because there is a gap. And if you don't mind it, there's just danger and risk. I would ask everybody to just mind the gap. Know what the gaps are and address them. Rae Woods: I love that. Thanks so much for coming on Radio Advisory. Erickajoy Daniels: Thanks for the invite. Rae Woods: One more podcast to check off your bucket list here. Erickajoy Daniels: This was a good one. I enjoyed it. Rae Woods: We'll be right back with what our research team is watching this week. Early last week AstraZeneca reported Phase III results as it begins the process of securing emergency use authorization. But after the NIH raised concerns about the data being potentially “outdated” the company released updated numbers to account for additional Covid-19 cases that occurred near the end of the trial. For now it’s unlikely that the AstraZeneca shot will play a major role in US vaccinations, especially across the spring and summer. But there is some good news, President Biden announced plans to double his initial vaccine goal, from 100 million shots in 100 days to 200 million. Meeting that goal is important, because after the number of Covid cases fell rapidly in January and February, the numbers seem to have plateaued, meaning we’ll likely need expanded vaccinations and testing to bring case rates down further. Some states are considering expanding their Medicaid programs after Congress included a boost in the federal matching rate to incentivize expansion in the most recent Coronavirus response bill. The additional money has some of the 12 holdout states reviewing their position. In Alabama, leaders are openly discussing the possibility of expansion. And in Wyoming, the Republican-controlled House approved a bill to expand Medicaid in the state. The bill still needs to pass the state Senate and get backing from their Republican Governor, but it's notable that enough Republicans in the state House supported the bill at all, and suggests the stimulus bill might be shifting politics around Medicaid expansion. Several of Biden’s nominees for top health care jobs have been approved by the Senate. Xavier Becerra was confirmed as Secretary of Health and Human Services, as was Dr. Vivek Murthy, who will be reprising his role as Surgeon General. Rachel Levine, also received approval to become the Assistant Health Secretary, marking the first time in history that an openly transgender individual received Senate confirmation. Which I will also say is a great way to round out women’s history month. With the team in seat, we may start to see a more comprehensive health care agenda take shape, beyond responding to the pandemic. And when that happens, remember, we’re here to help.