Developer survey, RSCs, and Google Domains === Emily: [00:00:00] welcome back to Pod Rocket. a web development podcast from Log Rocket. Log Rocket helps software teams improve user experience with session replay, error tracking, and product analytics. Try it for free@logrocket.com. I'm Emily producer for Pod Rocket and we're back with our bimonthly panel episode where we cover a wide range of topics trending in the world of web development, but before we get into our topics, let's welcome our panel. First we have Trudy Kaur returning. Trudy is the lead member of technical staff for Slack, a React, JavaScript, and GraphQL developer, content creator and speaker. Thanks for joining us again, Trudy. Next Shruti: you so much for having me again. Emily: Of course. Next we have Jason Langsdorf also returning to the podcast. Jason is the host of Learn with Jason, where he streams on Twitch to teach web development. Welcome back, Jason Jason: Happy to be back Emily: Ann. [00:01:00] Faoc, who's the director of developer experience at Cloudinary. GitHub, star and content creator. Welcome to the show, Colby. Colby: Thanks be here Emily: Awesome. And then finally we have our extraordinary pod Noel Min Chow. revelations that Welcome back. As always, Noel. Welcome, everyone excited to get into it. topic is the Stack Overflow Developer Survey, which just came out on June 13th. There's a lot of get into. So Noel: yeah Emily: discussing. The first thing that I noticed on the overflow survey was Python was noted to have been slowly gaining popularity over the past three years, and has now moved up to spot number three right below JavaScript and H T M L and c s s why do you think Python has been increasingly gaining popularity in recent years? And have you seen more front end developers using Python in the wild?[00:02:00] Jason: If I had to guess, I think it's because of the, like the machine learning Taken off that seems to be where a lot of the actual programming is done For like large language models And is that actually what that means LLMs large language I don't actually I don't I'm so bad at following this stuff I have no idea Emily: it is large Jason: Um But as far as I know a huge amount of the programming is actually being done in Python So it would make sense that with the buckets of money being dumped into AI space that people would be picking up Python Catch a little bit of that cash Shruti: Yeah, I think that's definitely a big reason. I also think Python is actually very easy to understand and pick up, especially if it's your first programming language. And because of that reason, a lot of schools. And bootcamps are also teaching Python to developers or to like new engineers as well. I looked up the curriculum of uc, Berkeley, and it, seems that Python is the programming language that is being taught. I also know a lot of [00:03:00] people who are coming out of bootcamps and Python is the language that is being taught in boot camps as well, so I like that's the first language that they're learning because I remember when I went to school, I learned c and c plus plus and Python is a lot better than c and c plus plus. Colby: Yeah, it generally just seems any kind of data processing where a lot of the topical things right now is AI and the machine learning, but any kind of data processing really Python way Think that's why you see that slow ramp up are just more and more dependent on all that data getting crunched their now we're gonna see more of a ramp up with the AI tooling really being there Emily: remaining up at like spot number three or like having this core group of JavaScript html CSS and Python as we're going forward into more machine learning more ai or Do you think that would something else take this place or this might be like the core [00:04:00] group as we go forward into I hate to say this new era of development, but as AI is becoming more of a thing or is this more of a passing thing? Noel: I think it feels as as long as Python kinda remains the lingua frank of This like large like data modeling world like it's kind of been like data analytics teams and stuff Python's usually the language that they're reaching for now more like ai adjacent teams and stuff as that world grows I think we'll continue to see It So I think it'll remain in that top slot I think what'll be more interesting is like the TypeScript JavaScript relationship we'll see how those creep up but I don't really see anything else like coming in hot for one of those top slots right now Shruti: I also noticed that there's a lot of libraries, not a lot of libraries, but libraries like Lang Chain, they provide a JavaScript interface for the same stuff that you would do in Python. So that makes me feel that JavaScript would still be in one of the top three going forward, although like Noel said, like as long as Python is being used for [00:05:00] LLMs, it will be one of the top contenders as well. Jason: I am reserving judgment on this because I think the big question I have is whether or not AI is ever gonna do anything that goes beyond like building tools for the gold rush because that was what went wrong with crypto right Is like in crypto everybody kept saying we're building the language that the developers of the future will use We're building the tools that developers of the future will use And nobody ever built anything real with crypto and I'm not seeing a ton of like actual tools coming out with ai Like a lot of people have ideas but mostly people are building tools for people to build with ai and that's where the money is being invested So if we don't see any practical applications of it then I think AI has the same ultimate fate as crypto where it the couple use cases where It makes a lot of sense it will stick around and otherwise it'll fade back into being a Like just another facet as opposed to the dominant force in the programming conversation[00:06:00] and yeah if that happens if we see that AI is a fad the way the crypto was a fad then the investment money dries up and we'll see Python probably return to baseline levels of growth as opposed to being the dominant language that it is given the current investment environment Colby: It is interesting to see though I'm blanking on the name, but there was a code language that was developed on top of Python to interact more Natively with right word like large language models and stuff. And again, blanking but it is interesting to see it's still using core layer of but make it a little bit more fit to that particular use Emily: before we go on to Node and React I kinda wanna jump on what Noel said about TypeScript TypeScript came in at under Sequel do we see that moving up and competing with JavaScript at all, or do you think that JavaScript for the time being will probably remain number one? Noel: It feels like it's a loaded question in my head Like TypeScript is [00:07:00] still JavaScript it's kind of a tricky I don't know dichotomy there I guess maybe it just depends on how people respond to the survey And stuff I feel like TypeScript is still going up in just like general use I'm more surprised when I see like a new project started that is not in types of script that's in JavaScript instead but again like they can coexist very closely Jason: if the spec changes land where we get typings in JavaScript natively Noel: yeah Jason: Because that kind of changes the entire thing because then TypeScript is just JavaScript and if that becomes the case then you don't need special compilers and things to to work with it anymore at which point I think the you lose your argument for why you wouldn't use it at that point And I say that as somebody who was like a die hard never wanted to use TypeScript I didn't like the extra tooling And then I realized how much I value auto complete and now I'm a TypeScript diehard Colby: And I'm curious is the JS stock flavor of that, do people still say they're writing in TypeScript? So which bucket would that actually fit under? Repairs and spelt and such? What would they. A say in [00:08:00] the survey, would they be Java script with that JS doc or. Noel: Yeah I don't know That's what I'm saying like I'm not sure like maybe there's people writing type script that are still putting JavaScript in their response here Like I just yeah It seem so so close I just Jason: It's also it's interesting too because I use TypeScript for a ton but I don't know that I would describe myself as a TypeScript developer Noel: yeah Jason: But I also myself a JavaScript developer Like I don't so I maybe I'm just one those who gets weird I get squishy about labels but Emily: 11th Jason: maybe that's just a artifact of being a generalist Emily: I'm while Node and React remain the top two most popular frameworks next JS has jumped from 11th place to sixth place in the past year and we know that they've Been pushing a lot of their new products, features, everything. So what do you think has driven next Jss increased popularity. [00:09:00] And is there anything specifically that has come out in the past year that you think is driving this growth? Jason: And this one might be for the hot take section but I think, when the React team starts openly saying if you're using React you need a framework and you should be using next js Like you're stacking the deck there Shruti: Plus one to that. I think the marketing , I would agree with Jason react seems to favor next JS as a framework and I think that could be driving up. The popularity of next js. It is coming out with features like React server components and streaming out of the box, which makes it easy to adopt as a framework. So I think there is some truth to the statement that next JS is becoming really popular, but I also think the fact that React is favoring next JS as a framework is contributing to that popularity a lot. Colby: And I think, some of the like politically things aside, I think N Js has always had a really good developer [00:10:00] experience to it, and I think that's one thing. And you gotta hand them to I still am more leaning towards the pages router, the app router's still a little bit, new. So who knows if I eventually get to it, but, they do care a lot about having a great developer experience and it shows. Jason: And they're also like these are some of the greatest marketers in the game right now we can talk about the Vercel team as being technologists but what they really are more than anything is marketers because like they build okay tech and they launch Revolution and I think that the hype machine that is vercel it's hard to argue and so you know they have very clearly signaled that like Guillermo wants to be Steve Jobs and they've shown that in both clothing choices and slide designs Like they're going for Apple and that's going to be like a game that they play really hard and I think as long as they've cornered this market of saying you need next Js or else you're a bad web developer which is the way they sell it and the React team coming out and saying yeah if you use React you need to use Next or else you're not doing it [00:11:00] right Like how many different ways can It's hard to argue with they're gonna keep growing Colby: I think the biggest hot take though then is who's the bill Bill Gates in the ecosystem Jason: Ooh that's Emily: team is obviously like more that Because I wanna know Jason: know I feel like that comes with too much like Bill Gates own baggage I don't want to put on anybody Emily: about slanted towards next js do we think that's going to changing how other frameworks are competing with next in the Apple analogy do we think that. We're gonna see less and less of other competitors to next js, or do you think this might be just a moment in time? Where next is the React framework? Noel: I think it's spurred a trend right everyone's got a [00:12:00] framework kit built on top of their just like web component library tooling right Likes felt its felt kit Yeah I think it's just the norm Like people want ssr they're convinced they need it and I think that's just the trend we're gonna see I think Yeah it'll be interesting are there other do any of the other players in the React space end up having any sticking power And longevity or is React just you open a new React project in 2025 and you assume it's always gonna be next Shruti: I have to say it's very concerning for somebody who works for an enterprise And is maintaining a React application that probably wants to use servers components, server rendering, streaming and now has to think about if this feature is going to be supported by React natively, or do I have to, like now think about how I'm gonna migrate my entire app into next year's app and. As an app, as big as Slack, for example. That migration is not easy and it's not gonna happen over time. So [00:13:00] are we going to suffer because NextGen is the framework of choice and we don't have a path to adopting that right now? Or is there an easy way for developers like us to adopt the new features? Colby: that opens Jason: gonna be the battle for our time here is the React team right now is very upset because there's a growing perception that this is reacts Angular two moment where they've introduced a pattern that's incompatible with the way that a lot of people are building And they're making very good points that like this is very different from Angular one to Angular two in that all the React code that we've built will continue to run But it is similar to react to Angular one to Angular two and the fact that if you want to build the new way you gotta refactor Like you can't just turn on that feature and your whole app is fine Like you gotta rebuild And if they don't get the education right if they don't get the The migration story if they don't get something that doesn't [00:14:00] require like Trudy says if we are in a place where the only way Slack can use the new features of React is to completely migrate to next Js that's what happened to Angular two where people were like if we have to rethink this whole thing we should just look at what the modern thing is And if that's the case then you know why wouldn't you lean for something like Selter Solid that It's a smaller bundle size and higher performance and all those things So I think that React has definitely put itself in a position where it's built something cool but it's got a really big marketing challenge right now because they launched this in a way that makes it seem like everything has to change for this stuff to work And at the moment they're kinda there's some challenges with the way that they're communicating to ecosystem maintainers and there's some beef forming there with like just a general kind of dismissal of really prominent maintainers with valid concerns Being told that like you're not a priority a react to it[00:15:00] Emily: Stack of AI uh 70% respondents said that they're planning on using AI tools in their development process with those learning to code being more likely than professional developers to plan on using AI tools. So has AI become a part of your own development process? And have you seen developers moving more towards AI tools, or like Jason was saying, is this possibly just a bubble where people are making AI tools for the sake of making AI tools? Colby: I don't think it's personally gonna be a bubble, but I definitely think that people are really trying to ride that hype wave and really just dropping in gimmicky things, like adding a chat wherever you can possibly add a chat. And I don't really think that's the future of AI development. I think there, there's a lot of awesome things that we can do with it for enhancing workflow, but I think it's gonna be really background things and how it can help you [00:16:00] achieve tasks more efficiently as opposed to something that you're just gonna talk to your bestie about. Noel: Yeah I agree I feel like I've been using like co-pilot and stuff I find I guess back to our TypeScript question I find for like generating type definitions for like APIs and stuff that don't have something in the spec I can just hand that over to a l lm and it's just yep here's your type definition It's like usually pretty good and correct Like I coulda typed that up myself But having somebody type it for me is helpful I don't find it too useful for like complex business internals and stuff like that But if there's something that I'm like I wanna figure out how to add two hours to a date object in JavaScript without an external library or something It's I know handy for those quick little lookups and stuff like that so I've been using it but that's really the only tool I've been using at least Shruti: Yeah. Plus one. I've been using Chatter PD stuff as well for. Like simple tasks I have this function, it's throwing me this error, this TypeScript error. Fix it for me. So chat, gp d will do that for you. Anything more complex than that chat g starts to fail on me.[00:17:00] For example, I asked it a question on something that was related to accessibility. I wanted to create a component that Could not have are labels attached to it. So I asked chat and sometimes , the answers that it'll give back is not correct. So I do wanna give a warning to anybody who is using chat for their coding that you cannot rely on it a hundred percent. So use it for like simple tasks. But. For content creation. Actually, chat has been really useful and there's other AI tools as well that have been really useful. One of the main things that I end up using chat a lot for is unblocking me, especially when I have a creator's blog, like I'm trying to write a blog post and I have a general idea of what I want to do, but it's very hard to get started. Or like a YouTube video, like creating a script and then you can go from there and edit it. So it's been really helpful to give you the first prompt and like that first Template for you to start off from and pick up your blog post from there or like edit emails or edit slack messages. So I've been using it as like an assistant instead of like my helper[00:18:00] Emily: rust has become the most admired language with 84% of respondents saying they would use rust again you think Shruti: drives Emily: the love for Rust from the rust stations and how have you seen the rust community growing? Jason: I've seen a community that was hyper focused on being inclusive and representative and I've seen that it was very driven by like governance and making sure that people are recognized for their work and all of those different things which When you're trying to create a new community that's one of the ways that you really make it grow is you make people feel a sense of ownership and a sense of like purpose in it you're not just here taking advantage of the results you're building the results you're building the future of this I think that is like such an incredible strength and the number of people that I've seen that I respect who have moved toward rust development Largely because of the fact that [00:19:00] they were sick of the communities that didn't recognize work and wanted them to leave because they weren't like typical white dudes it's been really impressive the concern that I have is recently it seems like the Rust Project is getting itself into some hot water where they're backing out some of those decisions that made it inclusive I think if they can navigate that they'll remain one of the most admired languages But if they aren't able to navigate that I think we might see a schism I know that there's a copy like a fork of the rust language that's just trying to get away from that The leadership that they disagree with which is the that was the dino thing right Was like it was a fork agree with and caused all these community problems and issues Emily: listeners with Jason: see, depending on how they navigate that think it'll be to see of Emily: said let's move on to Server components in our last panel episode we had a lot of listeners with questions about React server Jason: and then at the beginning this [00:20:00] month Emily: the Bytes newsletter noted that server components were finally making their way into real life, specifically meta frameworks like Next Redwood and possibly remix. The article, also cited parcel js creator, Devon Govet, who said RSCs will make frameworks need to become more specialized. So I want to talk a little bit about React server components how they're being implemented, and also touch a little bit on Some of the recent issues with RSCs. So before we get into it, can anyone just give a very brief overview of what RSCs are? Shruti: I can talk about it. So RSCs or React server components are components that basically run on the server. So for way to think about it is for example, if you're creating an app where, let's say you're calling the database, or an example that React documentation gives is you are creating an app that has markdown files and you wanna parse the mark markdown files or call them markdown library. You can do that stuff on the [00:21:00] server and server components are used for doing that. The advantage is because you're not shipping that extra library, you can do that stuff on the server. It helps in performance, makes your. App faster. One thing that I wanna point out is that server components cannot have interactivity. So if you are doing a functionality that is dependent on event handlers, like on click, you wanna still do that on client. So in short, server components are components that run on the server. If you wanna create a database call, if you wanna call a database, call an api, that stuff you can do on the server. And so a thinking model that I've been. Using to understand, this in my app, stuff that need interactivity that should stay on the client, but then what is some stuff that is calling an external api, calling a database, or is doing operation that can be moved to the server, could become a Emily: So [00:22:00] And do you agree that this might force frameworks to specialize more now that they exist? Jason: I think we have to see if they. Can cross the adoption chasm cuz I think currently every app that I've seen talk about their app router experience, either burned everything down and started it from zero to be built on the app router or they're having a lot of issues. And I've seen comparisons from folks like Jack Harrington that are showing that server components are actually slower than the, other than using the pages directory. There's a bunch of ecosystem loss. Like you can't use context anymore. A lot of the interactivity models that we have for sharing state don't work in a way that we would expect. And so one of the big questions, I think React server components need to answer. Is why, like , they solve some problems that are technically impressive, [00:23:00] but when you get down to what they're actually doing, in a lot of cases, they're solving a problem that's been solved really well by offloading that same work to an API or using serverless functions or, put it on a PHP server and just call into that on the server and then, have your React app hydrate on the client side. And , my other question is like, is this. Any different than what we were doing with server-side rendering or something like Astro, where, the argument you can make is that with server-side rendering in next js, you are doing all of the work of hydrating the app on the server and then you have to serialize that and pass that down with all of its data. And then you have to hydrate and deserialize and read all that data and do the work twice. So react server components, limit some of that. But with something like Astro where you do all the work and then you pass down HTML and CSS and then you selectively hydrate just the component that needs to be interactive, I guess I'm having a hard time understanding how there's , an advantage that outweighs the additional complexity. Of [00:24:00] implementing, like, why am I turning servers back on? Why am I suddenly having to handle my own caching layers and think about these things that there's a reason that p h P fell out of fashion as being like the primary way to serve websites. And it was because servers and cashing are really hard and you don't wanna manage them yourself. So unless we get to, like you said a highly specialized set of frameworks like WordPress, Which there's a lot of reasons that people have feelings about WordPress too. But WordPress is one of the only ways that you can build a PHP site on the internet today that is so specialized that there's highly tuned caching and servers that will make it run really well and really fast. So , , there's a big gap between like technically impressive and like the proof of concept is cool and solving problems that I think actually need to be solved. If that makes sense. Colby: As far as the specialization stuff goes, I can't really see it getting as specialized as the kind of comments that were alluded to goes like an e-commerce specific framework. Like I, I think it's an interesting idea, but I [00:25:00] think just cause the nature, assuming that it massively adopts talking about React specifically Templates and starters lend themselves well to those exact things. Components are easily shareable and portable from other libraries. Doesn't really seem like problem that needs be solved there isn't something so special that project that can't abstracted into component library or you know, a database or whatever Emily: touched on but with the Release of RSCs A lot of people are finding that they're breaking their libraries that they have I'll link it in the description, but there was one issue where , Apollo would break with RSCs. And I think even Mark Erickson was saying he was having problems with Redux Toolkit, I believe. Yeah. Redux. Do you think we're gonna see more of this? What do you think this problem is? Do we think that the team is going to fix it? , how are we feeling about this? Again, Jason, you asked like, why do we have this? Jason: Yeah I mean it like is the value of RSC so high that it's worth [00:26:00] shedding the entire ecosystem and having to start over again? And I. It is very hard for me to see a reasonable justification. Noel: Yeah I think maybe that goes back to what like Jason was saying before if This kind of does become standardized I think like how many projects are just gonna be like we don't really wanna switch to react server components all of this tooling that we're using Like we have to go refactor all like let's just switch frameworks at that point right let's just go use like Speld kit or something Like a lot of the same paradigms are there but if you're going through all that work anyway like why not just make the switch Jason: Yeah and if you're worried about performance, like why not just rewrite it to Rust if you're gonna rewrite the whole app anyways? It's a very interesting space to be in, Shruti: and I think like the issue that you're talking about, Emily, if I remember correctly, that issue also came because React server components were, was introduced in next js and that's what broke Apollo. And I feel like that goes back to the way we. Introduced these changes to the libraries or like to downstream libraries like [00:27:00] Apollo and Redux and I think this has happened before as well, where a new feature came out in X js and it broke like people's products their softwares after upgrading. I remember my own site broke when I was trying to push something and I think if we have breaking changes, it's really gonna make it really hard to adopt server components. So we really have to think about the way that we are going to be pushing updates out for downstream libraries especially from something like Next Js. Colby: And it feels like there's even a little bit of stubbornness to it, like reading through that one thread like it. Doesn't seem like they're actively trying. Like I see on Twitter of course that Dan always has some great explanations about stuff. But I also see other times where some of the Corps members are making some just general, everyday people feel bad about being confused about it. They're basically just selling 'em, no, you're wrong for misunderstanding and that. I just don't think it's a great approach that kind of community and it really shows in this example as well. Jason: That principle, Skinner meme comes to mind. [00:28:00] You know, The one I'm talking about where he is like, am I outta touch? No, children who are wrong. Like, That, I don't mean that in I, I want to be very clear, like the React team is doing some unbelievable technical work, but I think we're feeling their lack of like community mindedness. they've historically been resistant to dere and. And having people who are like community builders as part of the team. And I think that has led to this sort of disconnect where they're like we're hardcore technologists and we've built something that is technically impressive and everybody's asking why. And their response is to be like, why don't you see how brilliant this is? And they're like, frustrated. , like I said, there's a lot of dots that need to get connected between, like something is very technically impressive and something is actually solving a problem. And I believe, like I've seen Dan talk through this and I do think that there are use cases where this is gonna be the right thing, but what I'm struggling to see is I'm just not seeing [00:29:00] somebody go out there to really paint that picture of here's where you are today. Here's the way you would solve this problem now. And here's why that falls short. And here's where React server components actually solve this problem in a meaningful way that's gonna outperform any of the solutions out there by a, order of magnitude high enough to justify not being able to use Apollo or Redux. So I think there's a lot of like educational work to be done and I think if they can find a way to get educators into the team and put that effort in, I think they can. Build their way back. Noel: Yeah I think I know we're getting stuck on this a little bit but Yeah like I I think that there there are people asking for it in the community And so the React team is in a really tough spot Cause there's like people asking for this kind of behavior They wanna hyper optimize they want really good server rendering text so they can do LinkedIn ferling and have get the top of they want to be top search rank result page on Google right they need all these things for a reason and the React team is currently serving them and they're serving all these other people that are just like I'm just trying to build apps I want it to [00:30:00] be simple I want it to be easy So it's that is a tough spot like how do you do that in a good way And I think that this problem has killed Frameworks and stuff in the past before and just like they're they have a huge user base Half of them want one thing Half of them don't understand why all these changes need to be made And I think that is a really tough just like organizational like tough communication said to figure out so yeah we'll see Jason: but Emily: before we get onto our last topic right now Uh read and ed and we will be right back This Jason: episode is brought to you by Emily: Log session, replay, issue tracking, and product analytics to help you quickly surface and solve impactful issues affecting your user experience. With Log Rocket, you can find and solve issues faster, improve conversion and adoption, and spend more time building a better product. All right, [00:31:00] and we're back with our final topic that was causing a bit of a stir on Twitter earlier this week. Today is the 21st as we're recording. But. the weekend Squarespace bought Google domains and the whole Twitter dev timeline was low key blowing up over it. So it's minor, but it's not. Why are people mad about this acquisition? Why is everyone in a fuss over this? Jason: I'm so glad that Colby's on this because I and I have taken exact opposite stances on this. Colby: Yeah. So then I'll start then. So I definitely feel a little bit of a sense of betrayal here and I think it's mostly cuz I consider those my digital identity. So all of a sudden, and something I could have never thought about before, my digital identity was sold out from under me. And of course, it's square space. It's a big repeatable company. I'm sure I would be absolutely fine, but I just feel like I wanna have a sense of. Option of where my domains go. And if I were to pick one, I don't think that'd be [00:32:00] Squarespace for whatever reasons. Their main objective is to sell site builders and I, I don't think domains is going to be one of their highest priorities aside from this purchase. Regardless, I'm sure everybody's gonna be fine if they just stick there, but I wanna have the options. I wanna be able to pick where I choose and I never expected that from Google Domain. So it just shot me with that move Jason: I kind of landed on the other side of it because I think we're just crossing into the age where the tech companies that we thought were like our cool tech friends have just grown to the size where they're effectively, big banks and they're just big corporations, right? And so to them, Google Domains is a bundle of assets the same way that like mortgages are a bundle of assets. And they sold those assets to another company because they thought it would be like, for their business. And there was probably zero consideration for what that means to anybody owning the domains the same way that there's no consideration for what it means for somebody who has a mortgage. And like one of the questions that I heard [00:33:00] watching this go down as somebody, how can they just sell our personal details? And I was like, yo, you gotta get into big business. This is like the business. That's what happens. And I think for me, ultimately where I landed is all of these companies are either reselling domains through like one of the central providers, or they're so small that there's no reason to believe that they won't. Like I got an email from a niche. Domain provider that was like, Hey, we're trying to pay for your renewal and we're not sure if we're gonna be able to, so your domain just might stop working if we can't get them to take our money by this date. , that's not gonna happen with a Squarespace. Right? It, It wouldn't happen with a Google. It won't happen with a Squarespace. I don't know what happens with a boutique domain name registrar out of, some small town with a team of Thor so I. Ultimately, like I'm watching to see what Squarespace does with it. If they start spamming me with you have to add a site builder, or we're gonna triple the cost of your domain, I'm gonna care a lot. But in the short [00:34:00] term, if they treat it the same way that Google did, where Google's business is selling ads, Squarespace's business is selling site builders. Google tried to get me to use my ad credits and Squarespace will try to get me to use my site builder credits, and I'm really good at ignoring banners, so, it won't really change my experience at all. And if that continues to be the case and they don't like quadruple prices or whatever, then it's not worth the several days of my time that it would take to actually go through and do these transfers and get the domain records all set up and tested and configured. It's in the grand scope of things that I need to care about. This is not one that I can bring myself to care. Noel: Yeah I cared about it Just yeah maybe like personally Reactively I just liked Google domains as like ux I don't know I just feel like it was always nice to use quick You always had they had like privacy protection was always on by default and stuff Maybe Squarespace does that too I just always found like Google Domains as a product always felt really nice so I think that was part of the betrayal feeling And this just seems like such a bizarre thing Like it makes sense when you step back but I just think it was totally outta [00:35:00] left field first Like a lot like you would just never expect Google to be getting rid of their Domains product It's like Jason: does Noel: right It's so weird Yeah Jason: still haven't as of today, as far as I know, they still haven't told anybody that it's happening, like we only know Colby: That's so strange, why haven't I received an email about it? It's but I do wanna point out the UX thing. It is bizarre to me that the registrar world is poor in ux I've been testing out a bunch of the big name won't name them but they're all such poor ux and like he said, the Google domains had a great ux. It was very nice and easy to use, and part of that's what I'll miss as well. Emily: alternatives for devs who absolutely do not wanna work with Squarespace Colby: I'm leaning towards pork bun right now. Out of a lot of the ones that I've been testing, it seems pretty reliable and not perfect, but you know, has all the features I need. Noel: I appreciate the recommendation. I've gotta like go shopping now so Emily: guys Noel: Yeah Jason: Name cheap and pork bun, I think put out big, like. discount [00:36:00] codes that You can use if you wanna, save Money on that transfer. Shruti: I think GoDaddy is also an alternative to Squarespace and domains and everything. Jason: That was the other problem is when I started going through my options like, GoDaddy, oh wait, no. I have like big ethical concerns about GoDaddy. what about name I know what do I need to look into the CEO of name cheap it's like I just, whatever, square face. I haven't seen you in the news. Take my money. I don't Emily: Not yet Jason: alright thank you everyone for joining us today Emily: colby, where can people find you if they wanna know more about You Colby: You can find me everywhere at Colby Faoc primarily, usually Twitter and YouTube. And my hot take is Black Mirror. What's going on with this season? Emily: Now I have to watch Jason. Where can people find you? Jason: Most of what I'm posting is on YouTube these days at Learn with Jason on there. Or learn with jason.dev if you want to find everything. And I believe this entire episode has been a hot take from me, so I will abstain. [00:37:00] Emily: Trudy, where Shruti: You can find me on Twitter at sruthi KAPO zero eight and YouTube, also at Shruti KAPO zero eight. I recently launched my new YouTube channel, so I'm working very hard to content out there. We're excited. My heart take all of these AI tools frustrate I live in Silicon Valley. Every time I walk into a cafe, everybody's talking about ai and I'm just like, Emily: it Shruti: I don't want to one more Colby: Are they adding chat to the payment systems now too to figure out what's on the menu? Shruti: oh God, everything is an AI too. Chatt for this, chatt for that. I'm like, ugh. Emily: We're so over Shruti: app Emily: Noel. Where can people find you? Noel: Yeah. I'm not super active on social. You can find me as uh n on GitHub Emily: Angie can find Noel on the podcast. below Noel: every[00:38:00] Emily: Any hot takes. Noel: Yes, but no, I'm good. show Yeah. Emily: All right. Well Thank you everyone for joining us today. Everyone's socials will be linked in the description Noel: every week Emily: things we mentioned in today's podcast. Everyone for joining. Shruti: Thank you so much. Jason: Thanks for having us