Daniel (gravelly voice): "Hey, welcome to Waiting for Review, a show about the majestic indie developer lifestyle. Join our scintillating host Dave and Daniel, and let's hear about a tiny slice of their thrilling lives. Join us while waiting for review."

Daniel (normal voice): "So I was a bit sick last week. And I sent you a short audio message. like saying, like, hey, I can't record because my voice sounds like this. And you were like, Hey, record our intro with this voice, please. So yeah, I don't know if that's going to be our permanent intro or what, but like at least for one, for one show, it was definitely, definitely fun."

Dave: "Yes. It's probably a one show only thing, Daniel, I like hearing you as you, although, yeah, deep voice Gravely Daniel is interesting, definitely. Gravely Dan!"

Daniel: "Hehe They call him Gravely Dan. You rise a gravel bush."

Dave: "Oh man, yeah. Ah, you were definitely quite poorly, Daniel. I'm glad you're getting back to full health now. Yeah."

Daniel: "Yeah, a little better. And I don't think it was the big bug by the way, but like if you like I just had a pedicol basically But it was a bit frustrating because my voice was very sore"

Dave: "Yeah. So I meanDave that combined with what's been going on my side, cause I've been incredibly busy over the last few weeks. Um, there's also part of the reason this episode is a little delayed from our usual schedule, but that's life happens. That's fine. Um,"

Daniel: "Mm. I don't. Yeah, thank you, listener, for your patience. And we're back with a fantastic... Well, I mean, chances are that each or most people will listen to us on their own, right?"

Dave: "Singular. Hahaha Yeah, yeah, true, true. Podcasting is usually a solo, solo listen for most people."

Daniel: "But if you're in the car right now with like four people and like you're all just vibing like, hi everyone, awesome. Send us a selfie. Yeah. So your August was busy, why was it busy?"

Dave: "Yep, yep, welcome to the show. As well, we've actually got our cameras on for this recording. You listeners can't see this but Daniel can I've got boxes in this room"

Daniel: "Next step is we're putting this on YouTube."

Dave: "No! Yeah, so what you could see, listeners, where this to be video, is this room has got a box to the side of me. What you can't see is there's boxes behind me, underneath the desk. And most of my house looks like this at the moment because we're moving house, Daniel. We're getting out of here. So, yeah, that, I'm not, I've told you already. Yeah, so we're moving the other side of Wellington Harbor to a different suburb. And it's a big deal because it's, we're moving out of rented accommodation and into a house that we own. So this sort of marks a bit of a milestone in our journey as a family, I guess, not to over egg it, but like this is sort of a..."

Daniel: "Get out of there. Like where are you going? Oh wait, you told me already."

Dave: "You know, six years ago we moved over from the UK. Uh, been through three jobs since being in New Zealand. The kids are now teenagers, life's got bigger. And, um, yeah, we're now finally buying a property here and we're really, really here, really, really moved is sort of what it's marking."

Daniel: "That's fantastic though, congratulations mate. And also like just like moving out of a tiny apartment into a spacious house is just nice, you have room to stretch your legs."

Dave: "Thank you. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And, uh, you know, we, as a family, it's going to be a big thing. Um, for me, the biggest thing out of it, aside from like space and being able to have a proper home office again, which is really cool. We've got enough room for me to, to set up, um, properly in that sense, which is, is great. Uh, cause at the moment I'm in the side of, uh, one of our bedrooms, but, um, yeah, the, the bigger thing other than that is that we're gonna have a garden and I actually really like growing things and you know just gardening in that sense. It's practical sort of stuff, I tend to prefer growing like vegetables and stuff like that rather than doing anything major with like oh you know it's a flower bed sort of thing like I'm more about the growing food and bits and bobs but yeah when I was yeah sorry"

Daniel: "Bits and bobs. That sounds like something you could smoke."

Dave: "No, not growing there. But no, like, I mean, what I'm 40 now when I was like 12, probably through to 1415, I grew a lot of a lot of plants. It was like, as interested as I am in development, I was interested in growing houseplants and then growing things outside. Like yeah, it was a special interest if you if you like. And so, yeah, I'm kind of looking forward to having a bit of that back in my life again. Because when you rent it, it's tricky. Yeah."

Daniel: "didn't know that. I have to ask you questions about how to make my house plan survive me."

Dave: "Yeah, I'll just tell you to read the Dr. Hessian, I think his name is, book, it was a famous houseplant book in like the 70s and 80s, which I then as a 12 year old got hold of this book and it was like my Bible. So yeah."

Daniel: "cool. That's awesome when there's one book you can read and then you have like a good base level understanding of things. That's really nice."

Dave: "Yep. Yeah. But as much as I might now, you know, tuck into dub DC videos and the stat and the other for iOS development. Yeah. 12 year old me was kind of reading all about like different types of house plants and picking up anywhere that sold plants. I would be like, okay, I want to have a look and see what that what's there. And then I would bring another one home and, uh, you know, like every single windows, windowsill in the house had plants on it that were mine."

Daniel: "That's neat. I love that. I think I was just into spaceships, which like I still am so nothing has changed."

Dave: "Yeah, yeah, I'm still fairly into space too and Lego as a 40 year old is making more of an appearance than it might have done back then actually. Crikey. I yeah, one of the other things I'm looking forward to in the house move is actually having a Lego shelf in my workroom. Feels kind of mandatory kind of time. Yeah."

Daniel: "Nice. such nerds. It's horrible."

Dave: "I do not care. I've reached that age, that stage as well. And it's like, you know, this is, this is part of me. Uh, that's it. And, um, you know, but yeah, looking forward to it all. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, Technic Lego, any sort of Lego really, um, is one of those things and yeah, growing stuff is as well as, you know, recording podcasts with, with yourself, Daniel and, uh, iOS dev as well."

Daniel: "Yeah. Just do what makes you happy. Hehe. Yeah. Oh well, my August was pretty chill. I did have a week of downtime for my cold. Before that, I spent a week in Sweden with my Swedish family, which was really nice because we went to a time-gene farm and they had two dogs, four chickens, no, three horses, and 40,000 spiders."

Dave: "Hey. Oof."

Daniel: "But like most of this was really nice. Oh, and also a tiny turtle."

Dave: "Okay that's not what I was expecting but yeah cool."

Daniel: "which was very adorable. Yeah, and so that was super chill. I could practice my Swedish a little bit, which is still horrible. And just enjoy being an uncle, which is very fun to me. And just have like one week of not working with telemetry deck, which I haven't had really for two years maybe. So yeah, that was good."

Dave: "Nice. Wow, yeah. Yeah, and actually, you've hit a milestone as well, Daniel, right?"

Daniel: "Oh, yeah, it's like the third, the company's third birthday, which is kind of hard to determine because like there were different stages, of course. But at some point we kind of set it to September 1 2020. Because that's about ish when this became from the, this was it switched from a hobby to let's try and make something else out of this, like without really having decided yet. what exactly something else could be. But yeah, this was when Lisa started to be involved, at least on a friendship level, like started to show interest and then start trying to help me out."

Dave: "Damn, so three years in total, two years full time as it were."

Daniel: "21 we founded Yeah, yeah, almost. That's pretty cool. And and still going so far."

Dave: "Yes, yeah and going strong as well it's great to see."

Daniel: "So going. Today I got a new subscriber or a new paying customer, which was really nice. I get emails if you sign up for a paid plan. And I'm like, nice."

Dave: "Brilliant. Awesome. That's cool."

Daniel: "Yeah. And yeah, other than that, I have destroyed my laptop. So because I was ill, or actually harm, I mean, we have a bit of time, right? So I'm going to rewind a little bit. And so recently, a new game was released called Jagged Alliance 3. I didn't know about this, but someone on Masterland told me, oh, they were playing Jagged Alliance 3 on a Mac with the new game."

Dave: "Oh yes."

Daniel: "toolkits which is able to emulate Windows games on a Mac and so they had apparently installed Sonoma beta and then they then ran this and I found I thought like I felt myself I was like in my heart I didn't feel the need to like to do this because it seemed very complicated but it reminded me of which is a game from 1999. And I played this game as a kid and it was like super fun. It's like turn-based strategies slash role-playing slash shooting at people. And so I was like just idly browsing resources about Jager the Lines 2 when I found something that is, it's called Stracciatella. So it's not the, which is a wordplay I think. They say like it's not the vanilla version, it's the Stracciatella version."

Dave: "Hehehe"

Daniel: "stretch the trailer as in the ice cream, vanilla ice cream with chocolate flakes. And so like basically it says, they have a website and it says like, hey, go to gog.com, buy the game for two euros, download it, put it in this folder, then put the stretch the trailer app next to it, and then just launch it using that, and it will give you like various things that will make it run on a modern Mac, just like that."

Dave: "I gotcha, yep."

Daniel: "And we could even change resolution. So it looks a bit nicer. And you have various interpolation modes. And it just works. And it's super, super fun. So I've been playing this on and off for a while now. And so while I was ill, just lying in my bed, I was like, oh, I'm just going to grab the laptop and try to continue the story a bit more. And so I like. open it up, open it up and I start playing around with the resolutions. Like these are all virtual resolutions, right? So nothing should happen. But I did change the resolution and suddenly there was a large vertical stripe on my screen. It was like, oh, and I was like, oh, the game has obviously has encountered a bug. So the game is displaying like graphics garbage. Like this was not like a cracked screen or something was obviously like, you know, like, pixel garbage."

Dave: "Oh no."

Daniel: "And so I kind of finished the encounter that I had. I was like, I'm not gonna exit. I'm not gonna just quit the game for that. Like I'm gonna finish the encounter, I'm gonna save and then quit the game and then everything will be fine. So I finished the encounter, I saved, I quit the game and then I see my Mac desktop and it's the Stripe. And then like, oh, oh. I'm like, oh, okay, I'm gonna reboot. So I reboot. And even during the booting process, you see like, oh, there's still there. So I don't know if I caused this. I don't think so. But maybe the changing of the resolution, but that would be pretty horrible. I should definitely."

Dave: "It shouldn't be. It would seem more like it would seem more like it was taxing it. And then something that was already failing went to me rather than."

Daniel: "Yeah. So let's see. So what I did was I did, I just lived with the shame for a few days until I felt better. Then I went to the Apple store. I was like, hey, can you fix this, please? And they were like, yes, of course we can fix that. That usually costs 700 bucks and you're out of AppleCare. Oh, but, oh, but like."

Dave: "Yeah. Oof."

Daniel: "this is for your company, right? And I was like, yeah, but did you pay for it as a company? And I was like, no, this was before we had the LSE. So we have like, just, this is just a normal invoice that is sent to people. And they were like, oh, because that gives you additional consumer protection. And that means I can repair this for free for you. Look, oh yeah, nice. Ha ha ha. Um."

Dave: "Hey!"

Daniel: "So I'm like, okay, very, very nice. Now I know why if you buy things as a business from Apple, you get 10 to 20% discount because you're not paying in advance for the repairs. So they were like, okay, cool. I'm gonna keep it in the store and then we're gonna send it out to the repair center because they don't have the parts here right now. And then they're gonna send the whole device back to."

Dave: "Right, yep. Mm-hmm."

Daniel: "my address, actually. So I don't have to go back to the store to pick it up, which is pretty nice. So actually, according to their status website, it actually hasn't left the store yet. So I don't know, because that was a few days ago. So I don't know what to think about that. But let's see. I'm just assuming that it will come back. Probably sends the TelemetryTX sticker on the screen, because I assume, or they told me, they will probably replace the whole lid of the laptop."

Dave: "Right. Oh, that's handy. Yeah. Yeah. what they did to me just before I left the UK with my old laptop. Lost all my stickers."

Daniel: "I Luckily I still have a few a few telemetry deck stickers Although the exact telemetry text sticker that was on my laptop that was unique because there was a print proof of one So I might have to call those printers again and request another proof or something Yeah so I'm working on my old Mac mini that is the"

Dave: "So what are you working on at the moment, Daniel? You're on a backup map."

Daniel: "The load bearing Mac mini. So a few years ago, I left my laptop when leaving my sister-in-law. Just driving home, and then I sit in the train, and I was like, oh, damn, my laptop is still with them. And so that was super frustrating, and a whole odyssey, I'm going to tell you the story one day. It includes four Inter-Europe flights. which were very expensive and was all very stupid. Anyway, I kind of resolved that, yes, if I do want to always have a backup Mac, so that Mac mini was my main work machine until 2021, I think. So it's an M1 Mac mini. And then when I got the M1 Macbook Pro, or the M1 Pro Macbook Pro, I didn't want to completely sell it or something. So I was like, OK, this is going to be telemetry dex build server, but it's going to be going to live with me in the apartment in the event that my main laptop is gone and I have a backup. And so exactly this is what it is. It still has four hard drives attached to it. And it still has like, I just created a second user, so the build server stuff, so it runs as its own user. But it's fine. I just plug it into the display. The display has my microphone and whatever, so I just had to install it."

Dave: "Mm-hmm. Yep."

Daniel: "a bit of software, and now it's running again, which is very good to have. I mean, I still miss my M1 Pro. It is noticeably slower. Like, I think it's mostly about RAM, I think, but you do notice a difference between the M1 Pro and the M1, which I was wondering about. And so, yeah."

Dave: "Okay, yes. You do. You do. I've got an M1 Pro for my company issued work laptop and it's got 32 gigs of RAM in it. And then for my personal device, I've got a M1 MacBook Air, which has 16 gigs of RAM in it. And I do feel the difference. Sometimes it's just load time on apps or that sort of thing. But yeah, they're..."

Daniel: "Uh-huh."

Dave: "I can, there's enough there in use that I can feel it at times. And it's super frustrating actually, cause I never had a problem with my hair until I touched the other device. So."

Daniel: "Yeah, this Mac Mini was so fast and it's still lightning fast with almost everything just when like compiling stuff I notice I notice basically or when I have like lots of applications open but other than that that's really nice it's really nice to have this very high quality device and I mean I also don't leave my desk so much like"

Dave: "Yes."

Daniel: "maybe have like one customer that we meet in Oxford, like live and then I bring my laptop, whatever, that's not bad. Yeah."

Dave: "It's funny because I am actually looking ahead and I'm sort of thinking when I do finally want to upgrade off of this MacBook Air, like now that I'll have a home office again, does it make more sense to get a desktop Mac? And the answer is probably yes, actually, if it was inside of the next year. Yeah."

Daniel: "Yeah? Huh. I mean, usually I would agree with you. But right now, Apple is offering the exact same CPUs for both desktop and laptops. And because they are running so cool, I don't think you have any downside with a laptop, except maybe you pay for the screen that you don't use so much. But I think it's a nice fallback, you know? And you can use it on the couch and whatever. And."

Dave: "Hmm? Yeah, yeah, that's it. Yeah."

Daniel: "Like the M1s or the M series chips are really good in clamshell mode, not like the Intel one."

Dave: "No, I don't know. I really don't know because I've got like I said, the MacBook Air wouldn't be going anywhere anyway. So that would be there for sort of those moments, I guess. And yeah, I thought, do you know what it is? I've looked at the Mac Studio and I'm like, do you know what? That's the closest I'm going to get in modern life to a G4 Cube. And I really like it."

Daniel: "Mm-hmm. Right. Hahaha is really, really pretty. I'm not gonna lie. It's just like, yeah. Like just practically tell if you want, I think I'm gonna stay with the desktop laptop lifestyle."

Dave: "Well, we'll see. We'll see how, how we both fare over that over the next year or two. I think, yeah, we'll see if I can get, get things together enough. Then yeah, Mac Studio would be on the cards for me probably this time next year. Like, yeah."

Daniel: "Yeah. OK. I mean, my laptop still has to last a bit longer, I hope, until telemetry is ludicrously successful, and I can just, I don't know, buy a M2 Pro, M3 Pro, whatever. Yeah, I do have another story to tell you. I know this episode is very Daniel-heavy, but I think you're going to enjoy it."

Dave: "Yeah. Yep. That's fine by me. I can't talk to what I've been developing in the last few weeks because I've not, right? We've been, I've had to deliberately put things down. Uh, we can talk about the side effects of that maybe, maybe later on in the show, because I think there's a bit in there that could be interesting. Yeah. But, but tell me, tell me your story, Daniel, what's been going on."

Daniel: "Oh yeah, that'd be interesting. All right, so this morning, it's evening for me right now. This morning, I got up, had breakfast, and then sat down in front of my computer. And I was like, OK, what am I going to do today? I had a quick chat with Lisa and looked at my to-dos, my GitHub issues, and whatever. And I was like, ah, yeah, I think I'm going to continue some work on the testing back end for the database stuff and whatever. And then I had a... I get a message on Twitter of all places from a friend of mine who works at Apple and they were like, hey, you're on the list today, why aren't you here? And I was like, what? I was like, what?"

Dave: "Hold up."

Daniel: "So about four weeks ago, I heard about the fact that there were more slots available for the Apple Vision Pro Developer Labs in Munich. Munich is 1 and 1 half hours away from here. And so I was like, OK, I'm just going to spend an evening hacking together a very, very horrible version of the could be able to run on the Vision OS simulator. Because they requested a few simulator screenshots. So I was like, okay, this looks horrible and not very good at all. And it very much shows that there's zero effort put into this. This is just like, ugh. But okay, I sat down for two hours, ported part of the chart system to SwiftCharts, ported and then put them in. like just we did like three windows among the original simulator and then took a screenshot and also had like three sentences in there and then sent off our application and I never got a reply to that. And so imagine my surprise when I got a message from my friend who was like, wait, you're on the desk. Why aren't you here? It's 9. And so I frantically go to my spam folder. Let's see an email there from Apple about, yeah, your submission was successful or your application was successful. Please join us on this day at 9 AM in Munich. And I'm like, oh, this is not good. Alex has just left with the car. I have no car available. And I write them, I write them like, hey, it will take me two hours to come to you. Does this make sense? And they were like, yes, this makes sense. Come on, just hurry. We can accommodate you somehow. And so, like, I'm like, okay, I haven't showered yet."

Dave: "the Hehehe"

Daniel: "So first order of business like fastest shower ever and a second order of business I suddenly realized that I'm gonna wear a vision pro and they need probably need to know my exact like eyeglasses details like Cylinder whatever stuff and I have a little card that has these details printed on them And this little card is somewhere in this room"

Dave: "the prescription and all of that."

Daniel: "I haven't found it. I didn't find it. I kind of dismantled half of the room and then decided, OK, this is enough. I need to leave. Maybe they can measure my eyes or they can measure my glasses or maybe they can, or maybe I could just use it. Because I do need my glasses for most of the time, but I'm actually pretty fine without them for half a day or a day."

Dave: "I'm sorry. Mm-hmm."

Daniel: "Because I'm farsighted, it's easier for my eyes to adjust with just their muscles, basically. Although it does get very tiring after a while. So I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna manage maybe. And then I was like, okay, I'm almost going to then, I was like, huh, I need to bring a computer."

Dave: "And your laptop's in the shop!"

Daniel: "my laptop is in the shop because I didn't know that I was going to go to Apple. So I was like, what do I do? Like, I didn't want to spam my friend because they were, I assumed they were like managing the group of other developers who were already there. So I'm like, okay, I'm just going to bring the Mcmini. Like, I'm just going to turn up there. With like, so I shut down the Mcmini. Then boot it up again, install the vision or simulate it up and get the code because it was not on there for the example or for the telemetry deck project. And then shut it down, just unplug everything, like dive under the table to get the power cord. I pack my mouse or my trackpad and my keyboard. I didn't pack the screen. I was like, OK, I'm just going to assume that either they will give me a screen, or maybe I can use the Vision Pro screen thing. And then I took a tram to the train station. It's going to take too long, so I'm going to take one of those scooters. Of course, the scooter that I got was slightly broken."

Dave: "Ha ha ha!"

Daniel: "And, but I kind of limped it to the train station, then barely just like got my truck, got the train that I was aiming for. And, and then, and then in the train, I'm writing, I'm writing to you and I'm explaining, I'm telling you the situation and like my train navigation app tells me, Hey, like get off at this station, then wait 20 minutes for the, for the inner city rail coming, coming along and then take that for 10, 15 minutes."

Dave: "That's right."

Daniel: "And I was like, oh, it's so frustrating that I have to wait 20 minutes. And you were like, hey, maybe get an Uber. And I was like, I haven't really thought of that. And so I did a quick search. There's a taxi app for most of Germany. And there's Uber. And I compared prices. And taxi was like $5 more expensive. But it was like one car for me. Because Uber only had UberX, which is like you get additional passengers."

Dave: "Mm-hmm. Yep."

Daniel: "I was like, no, if I'm going to take a ride, I'm just going to drive me there. So I paid 56 bucks for that leg of the journey. But it went very well. I went into the, I disboarded the train. That's the word I was looking for. Then like, tap book on the taxi app, went outside the train station, and there stood my taxi,"

Dave: "Yep, okay. Mm-hmm. Ah, ah, ah. Like a."

Daniel: "driver knew where to go because the address was over in there. And then we had been chatting a bit. He was like, oh, you're going to Apple? OK. Are you one of those people? Huh? It was a bit."

Dave: "Thanks for watching! to the Apple office. Step on it."

Daniel: "The thing is, though, I told him that because the Apple office in Munich, this is this huge area where it has a few other tech companies, like Intel, for example. And nowhere on this huge campus does it say Apple. You just need to go to building 12. And then building 12 has a tiny glass door. I sent you an image of this."

Dave: "rights. OK. Right, okay."

Daniel: "And it has a rainbow, which is a representation of the rainbow stage inside of Infinite Loop, I think. No, not Infinite Loop, Apple Park, is what I mean. And inside that rainbow is a small Apple logo, which is kind of hard to see against the glass. And that's all. That's all, so I think. Anyway, I did manage to reach that it was a very expensive journey. And it was very stressful. But."

Dave: "Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, so it's the six colors, right? Hmm"

Daniel: "I went there and they were waiting for me and we were super friendly and they were accommodating. And like, yeah. And then I was like, okay, how, what can I tell people about this event? And different people taught me different things. I'm gonna stay with the, I'm gonna stay safe. So I can tell you three things. I went to Apple today. I went to the Vision Pro Developer Labs and I'm allowed to tell people how I felt about the event."

Dave: "Yes."

Daniel: "And I felt very happy because it was super fun and I felt very welcome. And there were lots of people who were really helpful to me and I feel super motivated and yeah. And I'm not allowed to tell you anything about the event but I can send you a, hang on, I'm gonna send you this an iMessage. I can send you this link because this is public information and now you can look at this."

Dave: "Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm."

Daniel: "And maybe you can speculate how a Vision Pro Developer Lab could look like."

Dave: "I will put this in the show notes when I put everything up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, Kate. So we've got an image there, two people talking, Vision Pro on a desk. I'm just saying what I can see, Daniel. So plausible deniability, just blame it on me. But there's also a Mac Studio there as well. So it's very motivating to me because I want a Mac Studio. Honestly. And yeah."

Daniel: "Already did. Mm-hmm."

Dave: "Yeah, what to expect. So there's self-directed coding and design labs. You can test and optimize your apps for Vision OS. Bring your Mac, check. Did that. That's what you did. Code, yeah, you made sure. If that says nothing about bringing a monitor, so you're sorted, that's fine. And the image does show that they've got a monitor hooked up to that Mac Studio. So I can imagine they had what you needed on the other side."

Daniel: "Hehe. Yeah. Yeah."

Dave: "And then it tells you the locations, tells you our leverage ability. And that is pretty much it beyond how to apply in a form. So I don't want to get you into any trouble with, with Apple. That's all Daniel. So I'm not going to prod and poke about what it was like, but suffice to say, I think that you've got properly a better, uh, experience with your app that you were testing thing you might've had otherwise."

Daniel: "Yeah."

Dave: "thanks to attending. And I think that's cool."

Daniel: "Yeah, I'm quoting from the website. It says Apple experts will be available to help you with setup and troubleshooting. And yeah, that's what the website says."

Dave: "Mm-hmm. Yep. So, so I think we can anybody who is going to go for a vision pro can therefore check out what you've pulled together for the for your code your app later on as and when."

Daniel: "Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm going to start writing a blog post about it soon. I think about the upcoming Telemetry Deck Viewer app for Vision Pro, which is going to be nice. Yeah. Also, if you are planning on developing a Vision Pro app and can reach any of these locations, where are the locations? Cupertino, London, Munich, Shanghai, Singapore, or Tokyo. I just looked, and they still have open slots."

Dave: "Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm."

Daniel: "I think because they're still adding additional thoughts. So if you can more or less easily reach these locations, it makes total sense to apply. It was very helpful to be there, and it gave me a different view on how these apps should look like."

Dave: "Sweet. Uh huh."

Daniel: "and how these apps should interact. Like, it's very different than using the simulator, so that's really helpful. All right, and then I can tell you in detail how I got home. I took them, like, this time for my way home, I did take the inner city rail and then the train."

Dave: "Yeah, that's good stuff."

Daniel: "BLEH"

Dave: "No more 56 euro taxis across town."

Daniel: "No, no, I did take the train and then I took the tram home and then I cooked curry."

Dave: "I've got a vision of you making this reverse journey back and seeing that scooter that nearly broke down on you on the way and kind of being like, yep, I'm just going to give you a bit of a kick. Anyway, bye."

Daniel: "Yeah, the thing is, usually, there's different brands of these scooters, right? And usually, the ones I love and where I have to open the app when I use a scooter are Voi, which is a Swedish company, I think. But so on the map, there was a Voi scooter, but I didn't find it so really quickly when I was in a hurry. And I assumed that someone was going"

Dave: "Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm."

Daniel: "put it inside their hallway or inside their garden or something like that, like very egoistically, like I wanna write this tomorrow again. But then I was like, I saw a Bolt scooter again. I think Bolt is I think by Uber or Lime is by Uber. I don't know, I saw a Bolt scooter. And so I was like, I don't like Bolt but I do have the app as well, just in case. And I think it was the first time I took one in Oxford."

Dave: "Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm."

Daniel: "And it was just horrible. Like the tire was almost flat. The brakes didn't work properly. And it just didn't accelerate. Like the voice gooders, they do accelerate pretty quickly to 20 kph or so, which is not super fast. But it's nice. This thing was like hanging around at like 10 kph. And just like as soon as like the."

Dave: "Hehehe Uhhh That's more than enough for that mode of transport to be fair."

Daniel: "there was like a gradient or something, it was just like wheezing up there. I was like, oh, I was like, I was like, multiple times I actually did because it's a scooter, I did like push along with my leg, which did significantly improve and increase the speed. So I was like, come on, come on."

Dave: "Hmm Uh, one of the things I won't miss from this house, um, in this house move we've got going on as the, we're in an area that is in, um, a reasonably hilly area. I mean, half of Welly is, is hilly, right? Wellington in New Zealand is hilly, but our area particularly. So, and I, um, one time I took us one of those scooters from the neighboring suburb and, you know, decided to scoot home. And I had exactly that experience coming up the hill. It was actually really quite funny because it was like as far as fast, much as I would throttle it and kick and push, if I stopped doing any of that, it would almost start going backwards. It was like the weight of the scooter with me on it just wasn't working."

Daniel: "Ugh. Yeah, yeah, there's like two modes of how they throttle the scooters. Like the naive mode is they give it, because like different countries, there's different top speeds that these scooters can reach. So they have like some kind of software throttling. If you kind of unlock them, they can go like 70, 80 kph. If you're like, given a sufficiently long stretch of even road. Don't ask me how I know that."

Dave: "Yes. Ha ha. Yep. Hehehe"

Daniel: "Um, um, so, um, like the old, like the, the naive version of throttling is they just like output enough power so that on an even road would, would go like, let's say 20 KPH, but that's shitty because then on, like if you order a CPL, then it goes, goes up very slow. What the voice do is kind of, they actually measure their speed. And so they give you power until you reach that speed. So that's more, that's more helpful because on, if you're going up a hill."

Dave: "Mm-hmm."

Daniel: "then you will get additional battery power and it will just power up that hill at 20kph, which is very satisfying. Downside is it will actually actively slow you down on downhill, so downhill is oftentimes slightly slower because it will just like, just the algorithm will just be like, I don't wanna, I don't wanna, I don't wanna get to first, I don't wanna get to first."

Dave: "That's decent. Hehe. Yep. Stop you over shooting as you come down the hill and sort of speeding off. But, uh, so I'm assuming that kind of ends your story of to Apple and back, uh, Daniel's journey."

Daniel: "Yeah. That does end my story, yeah. You wanted to tell me about how not writing or not writing any code or not writing any hobby code at least, changed your life."

Dave: "Yeah, so here's the thing. Yes. Liv, laugh code. I can't get the link maybe from the view of a compiler. No. Um, so yeah, I've basically taken the last few weeks off from side project stuff. And we, last time we spoke, I was sort of, um, talking about my Lego, um, Lego apps sort of approach."

Daniel: "Live, laugh, love. Mm-hmm."

Dave: "Um, and, uh, I've done a bunch of that, but the last couple of weekends, we've really needed to focus in on what's going on for packing up the house and sorting out certain things. And I've just been like, yeah, no, there's no way I can be sat on my computer while we're doing all of those. That would just be, uh, imbalanced. And, um, what has happened for me is that whenever this, whenever I get protracted periods of not coding, I'm not working on my own stuff."

Daniel: "you"

Dave: "I get flooded with ideas for everything. And the trouble with my little guess, I'm guessing I've got some level of ADHD, right? I don't want to get into that too far on the show, but like my brain kind of goes, I'm not getting the thing. My neuro-spicy brain kind of gets the, I'm not getting my usual inputs. So do you know what? I'm going to go, here's some new ideas."

Daniel: "Hmm. Your spicy brain."

Dave: "And I'm going to tell you, you need to code this right now. This is the best idea ever. All the ideas are flowing. Like, it could do this, the app could do that, blah, blah. And I'm really enthused about it in the back of my brain while I'm doing mundane sorting out tasks. And of course, then the habit creeps in. It's like being a junkie, Daniel. Honestly, it's like this sort of, or how I assume, right? It's like, I am addicted to the code. And."

Daniel: "Hehe"

Dave: "Uh, yeah. So this is my, my neuro spicy code driven brain going through some level of withdrawal and, uh, that's probably over-dramatic sizing it. But anyway, I, I have a tactic for this now because I've gone around this block a few times in my life and I understand sort of myself reasonably well. I'm like, yeah, okay, that's cool. Enjoy the idea. Play with the idea, right? You know, that doesn't hurt anybody. don't write any code. So I haven't, I got halfway through writing something after a sort of half hour of opening up Xcode when I should have been going to bed and I was like, yeah, do you know what? I made a promise to myself, please don't. And so that's been the story for me over the last couple of weeks, like these sort of ideas popping up and then kind of, I'm kind of having to try and stuff them back in the box. And uh. What I do for that is I just make notes. Because typically when I've got these ideas, yeah, I Google stuff, I look things up, I start putting the connections together. And actually, that stuff is really useful, actually. If ever I do come back to an idea and I'm like, yeah, OK, I'm going to build that thing. And bear in mind, some of these things were ideas for features and things I can build into my existing apps. So it's kind of not a waste of time. It's just that the time to go and do it is not now."

Daniel: "I was just gonna ask."

Dave: "Um, so I've got about four or five different things that I've noted in the last couple of weeks that are probably going to become things maybe later on. Uh, but it very much has felt like sitting on my hands. And I think I'm wondering if this is a thing that you have been through yourself in one way or another, or if this is just a particular Dave neuro spicy thing and I'm just too addicted."

Daniel: "Hmm. I think I have that too, but I think for me, like I've just included the, oh, this is an idea that I'm having, I'm writing this down. I just have that internalized so much that this is a good outlet, you know? Like, I, like basically every day I get like four ideas for stuff that I could be doing either as separate apps that have nothing to do with Cinematry Deck, but also..."

Dave: "Yep. Yep."

Daniel: "Of course, because telemetry deck has so many facets and so many technologies, there's a lot of stuff that, there's a lot of stuff that I kind of twisted into being telemetry deck adjacent. And then it's kind of my job, right? So what I do then is I write a to-do in things, usually, because things is kind of my dump for everything. And then I just put it there. And then it's... like then the first impulse is out of my brain, so that's kind of helpful. And then when I still think about it, I kind of flesh it out a little bit, also things. And then if I still think about it, like a day later or an hour later or whatever, I will create a GitHub issue. And then of course that can also have various ways of fleshing it out. And what happens usually is, that is enough to still the craving, if you want, if you like. or like that gives it, there's enough of a, yeah, I did something feeling that, and also like it, because it's safe now, it's like stored in the backlog or in the things log. And the thing is just like, in event inevitably, it will be succeeded or superseded by more important tasks either in things or in GitHub. So I would never get around to doing it, but it's there, you know?"

Dave: "Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm."

Daniel: "And so it can just like fall down the priority hole. And if I ever think about it again, I had just like put it back up and yeah."

Dave: "Nah, that's a good kill because I think that for me becomes the thing, right, is part of me wants to sort of build the thing now because if I don't it's going to disappear and actually kind of go through the motions of getting things together and adding them to a note and doing that. You're right. It's like, I think I sort of see it as a bit of like it's a save game, right? Yeah, save the game. I can come back and open it up later if I need to."

Daniel: "Mm-hmm. Mm."

Dave: "And largely what ends up also happening is, is I'll have adjacent ideas or similar ideas. And then I'm like, ah, but what about the thing I was thinking about that before? And the, you know, I'll come back to the notes and I glean that one link that is then relevant to the real thing I'm building as well. Cause you know, some of these are just ideas. They're just things. It's just a, Oh, wouldn't it be cool if kind of moment rather than a considered thing. Um,"

Daniel: "Mm."

Dave: "But yeah, this happens every time when we emigrated, I had a protracted period of the move and everything there. And, you know, I had a similar thing at that point in time. It's just very interesting to me that this is this is what happens. Like, I almost can't switch off with it all in one way or another. So, yeah, I don't know. I don't know whether any of this will materialize into real things later on. There's a couple."

Daniel: "May you be able to switch off at some point."

Dave: "Yeah, I'm trying to. I'm trying to like get the move out of the way. I've got a bit of time booked off. And I'm part of the order of the day is not to build my home office as quickly as possible and get coding, but to actually just take things in and do what I need to do and enjoy. Very, very cheesy Daniel. I'm going to say it though. I'm going to go with it. I'm going to enjoy getting back to my roots with the gardening stuff and the planting we talked about."

Daniel: "Ooh. Ha ha ha. Dave is planting some wood."

Dave: "Oh dear, yeah, my surname plays into this as well. Damn, yeah, yeah. Oh, no, I'm gonna need to plant a bunch of trees, Daniel, so I can call it Dave's Wood. And yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, ah. Ah. I."

Daniel: "Fantastic. Nice, nice, with a sign and everything. Fantastic. I'm hoping that this will all, I'm gonna have to visit you at some point and take a stroll through Dave's wood."

Dave: "Yes, yes, and no euphemisms. I know people's minds can be in the gutter on such phrases. So if my mind went there, somebody else's did. But on that very silly note, Daniel, I'm going to have to get gone and get on with more packing and chores and jobs and things. So before I go do that, where can people find you online, Daniel?"

Daniel: "Hahahaha Mm-hmm. Oh yeah, people should go to telemetrydeck.com or should write me a message on at daniel at social.telemetrydeck.com. What about you?"

Dave: "Well, you can find all about my apps at lightbeamapps.com, which I have recently updated to Ghost CMS instead of being a statically generated thing. Yeah, yeah, that was fun. Not exactly no coding over this period. That was another flight of fancy, but it was very, very limited. I can quit anytime I like. But you can also find me on mastodon at Dave at social dot light beam apps dot com."

Daniel: "All right, Dave, have a successful packing and working day. I wish you best of luck for the move. I think we're gonna talk before the move again. But if we won't. Uh-huh."

Dave: "Thank you. We won't. We really won't because this is recorded now and the move is going on next weekend. So next weekend is the move. Yeah."

Daniel: "Ah, already. All right. Okay, then have a great move. I hope everything goes smoothly. And see you next time from the new house, from the new office."

Dave: "Thank you. Yes, yes indeed. Catch you later, Daniel."

Daniel: "Alright, have a great day. Byeeee!"