Sam 0:17 Welcome monkey off my backlog, is it? Part Five James Bond. This is your host Sam. I'm with Tessa, Elise and Nigel. We're all very, very good friends by this point. So here it is the last part of our conversation. I think we have a lot of knowing what I know I think there's a lot of consistency here in the top five that I think that we're gonna find a lot of consensus, maybe not in the exact spots, but I think a lot of the same movies are in the top five for us. We're going to start off with 1964 Gold finger at number five. This is the one where a future POTUS cheats at golf and tries to destroy America by taking all its money. Is that joke too soon? Elyse 1:08 I don't believe in too soon. So say whenever you'd like There you go. All Tessa 1:13 right, Nigel, let's start with you. Where is gold finger on your list? Is it in the top five. Nigel 1:18 It's number two. I really enjoyed the song. I think it's my favorite out of the Connery Bond films. It's really like the characterization is quite good. For the most part. I think our job is a really strong henchmen and Goldfinger is a really good primary villain. What do I think I think I really like lighter in this film. I his dynamic with bond is really, really good, especially at the end where he's like, you know, I've got alcohol for three people on the plane. Well, who else is flying? No one, you know? Like, I mean, he's just helping a brother out. What else? I think the scene where they're going to rob, the United States Bullion Depository is really like tense because of how the music and the scoring works. And it's not something I've seen the likes of in many other Bond films, how it's done like that slow build up in how quick the like the one notes Come. Where and then it's like, yeah, as well. This film could be called Gulf finger. You know. I really enjoyed the Gulf scene. I don't know why, like normally. Normally when you have just this like entirely like separate thing where it's like, apropos of nothing, we're gonna do this. I'm like, I hate this. But it's like, I don't know, the diner. Like, it's like, you know, that scene that's in a lot of things now where it's like, the villain will go get a shave from the hero. And it's like, you know, you've got that tension of like, well, he just use the razor and kill the villain or whatever, where it's like, that level of tension for me is in the Gulf scene where it's like, anything could happen was born to do like, you know, what's Goldfinger going to do to bond in retaliation? I don't know. And then when they're talking Tessa 3:11 about that scene is great too. Because bond is like actively trying to pick Goldfinger off the entire scene. Yeah, exactly. Nigel 3:17 He's everywhere. He's talking to him about like missing the hole or like, you know, it's a wrong ball. This comedy gold. Wait, hold on isn't sorry, isn't gold finger as well, the one at the start where he breaks into the facility by wearing a plastic duck on his head. Tessa 3:36 I do not remember this. See? Nigel 3:37 I'm pretty sure yeah, I start with one of them. I mean, he breaks into by swimming, and he's got a duck on his head. And oh, Tessa 3:45 yeah, Sam 3:46 yeah, cuz that's the one where he then goes into the hotel and spots skull finger for the Yay, yeah, Nigel 3:54 that's bongs greatest piece of spy craft. And it's like, we should just give up. That's the best he's ever been also. Sam 4:01 But that's also the iconic moment where he takes off the wetsuit and the tuxes underneath. Yes, Elyse 4:08 yes. I love that. Tessa 4:10 So Oh, he is what do you think of gold finger. Elyse 4:14 So gold finger is number three on my list. I love this movie. It has the best villain I do enjoy how much time bond and gold fingers spend together, which is definitely more than other movies. A lot. You know, it's a normal James Bond thing for bond to spend some time with the villain where the villain kind of tells him what's the plan and he's a little captured for a lot, you know, for a bit but this is different capture days for a lot. It's a little captured. I mean, this is different. A perfect Tessa 4:51 description of bond though because he's never fully captured. He's just Sam 4:56 they just spent enough time together to figure out each other's love languages. Elyse 5:00 Exactly. And the love languages the love languages were puns. So I just think it's so good because there's time where they're just taunting each other for a very long time before bond is a little capture I wanted to mention that the actor that plays gold finger is actually a former Nazi Party member or probe and he was kind of learning English like while making this movie. So he spoke very slowly and they ended up having to dub another voice on top of his because the movie probably would have ended up being twice as long. This movie has my favorite Bond girl postigo lore. As I mentioned earlier I do want to comment on and trigger warning for sexual assault and rape but the scene in the barn is disgusting and I I know that in a lot of Bond films they'll have the Bond girl do the no no no yes type of situation when bond is coming on to them but Pussy Galore pretty much never said I don't think she ever even said yes at any point. We mentioned earlier she's canonic canonically gay right in the in the book I think and Tessa 6:24 in the film too. She says she's interested in men she's Elyse 6:28 Yeah, Sam 6:29 I mean, if he turns her was she ever Elyse 6:35 right and I have a really hard I have a really hard time with that. Yeah bond being so sexy that he turned a lesbian I just I don't like any of that. But that whole scene in the barn reads as raped to me which is surprising for me to have it so high on my list. Um, I do really like the plot of this movie I think that money is fake and so I really think this plot would work like I feel like if you I feel like if you destroy a bunch of money everyone else's money is worth more that is gonna happen economic Nigel 7:12 Yeah, like I mean why don't Sam 7:13 we just I mean gold standard kind of going off the gold standard kind of changes that it's even Faker than right Nigel 7:23 and one last year of controversy but you say why don't we print more money Elyse 7:27 i mean i don't disagree with that Sam 7:29 but that's that's actually liberal economic theory in the US the whole discussion was we could just mint $5 trillion coins and solve everything that's wrong right now. Yeah, and there's no reason you can't Elyse 7:44 no I agree completely and I will say that I love the classic laser scene in this yes film where bonds penis is being friend eleazer um, I mean it's just so amazing because you know, he likes to use that penis so it's very scary that it might get destroyed. Tessa 8:07 I love that scene. It's such I mean, this film has the best like bond iconography like the goal the girl covered in gold in the bed, the scene with a razor with it and that goes back to what we were saying earlier the no Mr. Bond I expect you to die which is one of the best villain lions. Goldfinger is so like, I was a little uncomfortable watching this because I was Goldfinger is such a dead on ringer for Trump like I Oh yeah, I really was shocked at how similar those two are actually and that like it made him even better as a villain in some ways. The plastic lore thing really is disturbing to me as well. It is my least favorite like Bond girl arc even though pussy Gloria is a great Bond girl in a lot of ways. I will say though, I am surprised at how few scenes there were of that going into it. Like when I started watching bond I was like there's gonna be like a sexual assault or like a gray area scene like every Bond film, there actually aren't as many as you would think that there are. This is the worst example of that and perhaps the one inspector as well as as Nigel pointed out, but actually for the most part, there is a lot of enthusiastic consent on films, which is interesting, but this one that is my one drawback to this film. This is why it's number five on the list instead of higher i think is because of that storyline. Sam 9:32 That makes sense. Just two quick notes. First of all, Goldfinger was the first James Bond film to be nominated for an Oscar in sound effects, editing. And second, Sean Connery was paid $50,000 plus an undisclosed percentage for this movie, compared to the film he made. At the same time, Alfred Hitchcock's Marnie, for which he made 400,000 So, you know, he might have had something to complain about, after all, I just really find it interesting Nigel that you refer to the place that they break into as the US Bullion Depository, instead of what literally everyone here refers to it as Fort Knox. Nigel 10:17 Fort Knox is the military base. Sam 10:21 It's the same place. See, and here's the thing, if I could go Sterling Archer on you for just a second. This is the thing about Fort Knox is that to us, it has a cynic doccle relationship with where the money is held. I think it's actually met inimical as well. I think it works out both ways. I really do. So at number 419 70 sevens, The Spy Who Loved Me, the one where bond teams up with Russian girl bond, and the villain has an underwater base. And predictably, a henchman named jaws who unpredictably isn't a shark, although there are sharks in the movie. Elyse 11:12 So this is number nine on my list, but it's also my highest Roger Moore. So I love the the skiing union jack parachute scene, which Sam mentioned earlier was also done at the Olympics with Daniel Craig. That was a lot of fun. I do feel like that is an iconic bond thing. I really enjoyed the like, underwater Atlantis planet or a world thing. I just love the Bond villain layers. They're great. As you mentioned earlier, it has jaws. I love that and I and Anya is my or triple x is my is my second favorite Bond girl. So I just really love the I love her motivation that she has to do her job, but she also wants to kill the person that murdered her lover. But you know what? She can bond caught feelings. And that is, you know, complicates things I do. I feel like I'm glad that they were they added a little bit of camp to this movie. And then now I'm like, blanking on exact examples, because I feel like the movie would have maybe been a little too serious. Otherwise, I don't really have anything negative to say about this one, which is funny that it's number nine. And I have negative things to say about movies that are higher, like, higher on my list or lower, however you want to phrase that, but yeah, I liked it. Tessa 12:43 Nigel, where's The Spy Who Loved Me on your list? Nigel 12:46 I'd say like a solid 14. Like, I think this is probably, you know, this is probably my favorite Roger Moore film. But it's like, I just choose not to perceive Roger Moore if I can. My hence my performance in the ranking those bond ones. I really like the I really liked the layer. I think Stromberg is an interesting villain. And he's like, he's really up there in terms of like, Bond villains, like who are really really showy. You know, he's exactly what you picture when someone says, like, of a modern villain, oh, they're going full bondville like, this is the type of thing they're talking about. But it's like, I don't know, I'm really freaked out by open water. So I don't like that portion of the film. Or, you know, like, I just, it's really, I don't know, it's really distracting for me. Even when I'm looking at shit that's underwater. However, in terms of characters, I really like jaws in this film. I really like the dynamic that he has with agent triple x. However, I'm struggling to, like, why was this film nominated for three Academy Awards? Like, I'm like, I looked into the film, because I'm like, I want to find some interesting trivia to either backup my opinion, or to make me go Oh, my opinion is wrong. And it's like, it was nominated for three Oscars, and it was also novelized. Which I think it's so weird. I don't think the film as good as it is in comparison with especially the rest of Roger Moore. I don't think it's deserving of that. Does that make sense? Tessa 14:37 Yeah, I mean, I could definitely see that I really like this film a lot. I've mentioned my fondness for Abel agent, triple x, and the dynamic between them I think is really good as well. We should also probably mention the song Nobody does it better is clearly supposed to be about their relationship which I always really enjoy when bond songs are about kind of the central relationships. It The film that no time to die, which we've mentioned, two seems to be kind of more in that vein, where it's about the relationship between bond and another character. Nobody does it better as clearly about agent triple x and bond. We haven't talked as much about the sharks. Yet in Bond films, there are so many Bond films that have sharks in them that I feel at this point, they should have a union like a shark union, because they are often involved in the stunts. And I find, first of all, this film introduces jaws like you said, and the idea that he was hired to kill blonde and then becomes obsessed with killing bond, not because someone's paying him too, but because he is a consummate professional. And bond is the one that got away. I find that to be great. And the way that he does that he conveys all that without speaking, I think is just so great. But also there's a seat at the end where he gets attacked by a shark and he bites the shark. Like they were he's like in a fight with a shark. And I just think it's, it's so over the top ridiculous and yet so perfect for that character. And somehow he survives that. Nigel 16:13 That's probably that's probably the camp you're trying to think of. You know, that kind of thing, right? Yeah, Elyse 16:18 I think so. Yeah, yes. Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Sam 16:24 Mambo fact, Star Roger Moore, and director louis gilbert are buried next to each other. No way. Way. Huh. Original plot of the novel, The Spy Who Loved Me, Viv. A Canadian is the manager at the dreamy pines motor court. rapist thugs, put her in peril. Coincidentally, James Bond shows up discarded ideas for the film The Spy Who Loved Me that number two, it's not agent triple x. It is Tatiana romanova she's back. discarded plot idea number three bond faces a Chinese surgeon who uses a form of x who uses a form of acupuncture as an anesthetic which bond to later uses himself discarded idea terrible ideas, discard it these are real discarded idea number four. James bought the quote. James Bond comes into a room and this machine this robot which is unbelievably efficient, tries to kill him. I feel Nigel 17:51 I just I just feel like we've gotten the best version out of like that, like with the film is the best version. Even though it's still bonkers. Sam 18:02 Well wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on. I still have what I'm not done. I still got you. I still got you one more discarded plot idea. The youth, the hippies, the ones who are even more anarchic them Blofeld kick him out and takeover specter. But back there Elyse 18:32 I want that movie but not in replace of what we got like I want that to be like another movie. Nigel 18:37 I want to live in the universe, it would probably be almost a thing. Sam 18:44 At number three, Daniel Craig checking into the list for the last time with Casino Royale from 2006 the one where they successfully reboot the franchise despite the fact that they replaced back Herat with Texas Hold'em, which is truly a choice. No. This Nigel 19:08 this is way down my list. Wow, this is okay, so this is a case of Hold on. Sorry, I'm just gonna turn on the light in the bedroom. Elyse 19:20 We're getting serious to see Tessa 19:22 my notes on this one. Nigel 19:24 joke's on you. I don't have any notes. They're all in my head. Sam 19:27 That's right. Nigel needs the light on to trash my ranking. Nigel 19:34 Yes, this is a case of I've arbitrarily put this down the list based off of like one thing in the film, and it's the ending of the film. So earlier on SAP, you said that both Spectre and Skyfall suffer from a last act which doesn't need to be there. And I would disagree with it in Skyfall. It feels a bit long Yes, but feel slightly earned after having a villain that runs around They're on bond. Whereas like, I feel like the film should have ended after the sheaf was beat. I don't care for the romance between Vesper and bond I feel like it's done slightly better in the film than is in the book. However I don't care for it's like a full easily half an hour at least in my mind it feels like a whole extra half hour though we don't need however, I will say so. I like most of like pretty much all of the film before this like you say Eva Green is kind of impossible not to look at and you know, she draw like she draws all the attention in the film. And you know, I like the tension in the casino especially when bond gets poisoned. I feel like math Mickelson is a really good if underused villain. Especially like the fact that he just cries tears of blood What's up with that? Um, however, I really like that at the end of the film, when Daniel Craig kills the guy who is on the phone with who's responsible for like a lot of the things to do with Vespers death you know where he like he reveals he's there and shoots them and then that's when we get the bond James Bond moment like when I was rewatching them I'm like in my head I'm like doing it How long does it take to get to a bond James Bond moment? In the same way when you watch a film or play a game it's like how long until I get the opening title credit this is this is amazing where it's literally the last thing in the entire film. I think that goes really well for a hard reboot of the franchise you know just in case before this like you were like what like you get to the end of the film you're like what have I been watching and then he goes James Bond Sam 21:51 you're absolutely right about the Act Three being tacked on I mean, I think it plays okay but you're absolutely right in that it was tacked on that was that was purpose and Wade ended the film with the with the romance and with Vespers death but everything after that is a Paul Haggis creation. So yeah, Elyse 22:13 so I just want to preface this by saying the previous time when I watched all of the Bond movies I didn't rewatch the Craig ones I don't remember why but so it had been a very long time since I watched the creg movies. Casino Royale to me is a perfect film. This is my number one and I was completely shocked to find that it beat my previous number one which we have not talked about yet. I was engaged the entire time like I often gauge movies that nice day is on like how many times that I look at my phone while watching it and I almost barely looked at my phone while watching this movie. I and I said this for one of the other movies I do love when you really don't know who you can trust in the film and I think this is a good thing in this movie like even Felix you don't really know if he's I don't even know if they said his name in this movie Felix his name even though he was in the game also, I do love that it starts the interconnected creg series they're all somewhat related so that raises the stakes for me I don't really have many notes because I just really let it wash over me and I was I enjoyed all the performances I found the plot easy to follow I like I do enjoy an origin story even when you already know the character which this falls into that category I liked the flashbacks a little bit like they had those black and white flashbacks towards the beginning of the movie where they were showing him doing some of his kills to then become double oh seven because you needed to kill two people I guess. Which seems like very specific. So yeah, I just really loved this movie. I thought that Craig was a really good cast was really good casting for bond. They made a really good choice here and I just really love it. And I the romance works for me very well. Tessa 24:23 I agree that I really love how we get the short like how he became double oh seven at the beginning because I think all of the Craig films are very interested in what we've talked about before this license to kill like they're very interested on what does it mean to have a license to kill? What does it do to a person to have a license to kill? How can you tell who to kill and who not to kill? And I think this movie really sets up that question in a way that we really haven't seen that kind of introspection from the series before this. It sets up the tension between m and bond Judi Dench is M and bond really well. Because he obviously really cares about her even though they have a really different view of what it means to be a double Oh, I found all that fascinating Mads Mickelson I'm always gonna love anything with Mads Mikkelsen in it like he is just fantastic. I learned recently that this was one of his first films as an actor. Like he basically was in dance for like 10 years like he studied to be like a dancer. And like was a professional dancer for like 10 years met his wife got married like had kids and then just one day was like, I want to do acting and then became a Bond villain and like, apparently love that apparently Daniel Craig actually asked him who he slept with to get the role because he was like how have you never done any acting before this and you just like waltz into the franchise when it's like really hard a really difficult franchise to get into apparently. So like I just enjoy that anecdote about Mads Mickelson because I just I Oh, he's so arresting and he's so good and everything that he does. I like I said, I love Vesper Lynd. I love the casino and how luxurious this movie looks like this movie just looks so opulent. And the action scenes are next level like they are so tightly done we get something in the beginning of the Bond film where he like burst through a wall in pursuit of a character which I think there's a lot of action films since then have to have tried to parody that or like have tried to to recreate that moment. I just I like it Sam 26:34 a lot. Elyse 26:36 I just remembered a couple things I loved the scene where he were bonds been poisoned and he has to try to get the I guess the antidote and you think he you know you think he could have died his attention in that whole sequence is amazing and I have something else to say oh, I had a little Mads Mikkelsen funny thing in the in the book that I read he was one of the you know everyone involved in the movies was quoted and they asked him what his fee are. I don't know if he said this. Yeah, I think it was in his section. He they asked him who his favorite Bond villain was, and I am hysterically pleased to report that it was maxeon I just think that's really funny. Um, has like a choice. Nigel 27:27 Also to your point, Tessa, just First of all, I'm glad he became a dancer because then that gave us the wonderful scene in another round where he dances well drunk. That's great, but here's here's a fun thing to do with Mads Mickelson's bonded a shin Mads Mikkelsen has admitted he pretended to be a James Bond fan when he auditioned for Casino Royale. The Danish actor confessed he had never seen double oh seven in action, but didn't want to tell that to movie bosses when he tried out for the role of the chief of opposite Daniel Craig spy in the 2006 film asked if he was a bond fan before being cast. He said quote, I can't say I was because I'd never seen a Bond film. I did lie at the audition and said, Yes, I love that one. And I remember that one. I actually hadn't seen any of them. I've seen them all now and I am a big fan now. This is my favorite thing so much. It's my favorite genre of thing is Mads Mikkelsen, not knowing anything about the things he's in. He was in a reanna music video. He looked like he had no clue who reanna was his children just told him do it because they liked reanna. At that, he said at one stage because it's for bitch better have my money. He's like, it's me. I'm the bit. Sam 28:45 One final note. We have not talked about the number of times that the studio behind Eon productions are that as funded, Eon productions has changed hands change names. At this point in the franchise, the head exec who could exert HIS WILL over the franchise wanted obvious choice. Matthew Vaughn, who had recently directed layer cake to direct casino right out. Again, this is clearly the right choice. But instead, we got the kingsmen film franchise, so I guess that's okay. Also, broccoli and Wilson, originally wanted. Director of Notting Hill, Roger Michelle, who had recently finished the Ian McEwen adaptation enduring love the commonality between both movies of course, Daniel Craig, Elyse 29:47 I love Notting Hill, but that feels like it would be Yeah, it just Sam 29:52 I just think it's really cool. That layer cake was clearly Daniel Craig's audition film, and they really just should have poured it over its director too. But I think it's funny that the director that they wanted, had also directed a Daniel Craig movie and that is allegedly where they found him, not in layer cake, which I'm calling bs on that story. Elyse 30:16 Anyway, have any of you seen the Casino Royale TV special? So it's available on YouTube, and I will share that with everyone later. But basically, Jimmy bond is works for the CIA and there's like a Felix type character with a different name who's British so they kind of flipped it around. And Peter Lorre plays Bless you. And it's not good quality and it's not good but I recommend it for at least for you. If you're a James Bond fan, I feel like you should at least check it out. It's about an hour and it's it's found on YouTube. Sam 30:56 Alright, number two. At this point, you know what they are at number two, we put the 1969 super fun super happy super positive On Her Majesty's Secret Service, the one where we don't have all the time in the world. But what we do have is Blofeld running an allergy clinic for ladies Elyse 31:23 so I probably criminally habit at number 12 This is a crime I generally I do I do want to jet I said this before I really much bond jail abolition. I do really think that any there's only three Bond movies that I don't like so I still really liked this movie a lot. Um, I you know, Dame Diana Rigg is fabulous. I think she was one of the it's an interesting dynamic because George Lazenby had not really hadn't been in anything. He was like a model and like, she really had to like, help him a lot in that role because she was a theatre actor and she knew what she was doing. I just, I really enjoy the very silly fourth wall break at the beginning of the movie where Lazenby is like this didn't happen to the other guy. I also really loved that this is an enemies to lovers story, you know, I don't like the plot of Draco setting his daughter up to like, or setting bond up to like tame his daughter is like I think that's a kind of gross plotline. But I do really like that, you know, they obviously fell in love and got married, which is really nice. Until it's not Tessa 32:52 Well, I think the film to kind of resist that because bond is like not interested in settling down and she's not interested in being tamed. And so they kind of find a relationship on their own terms. out Yeah, I Elyse 33:05 don't like what her father wanted, which I think is Oh yeah. But no, that's why it's not like Haro, it's not like that was the whole thing. But that setup is kind of icky to me. Tessa 33:16 That's fair. Nigel, where's this one on your list? Nigel 33:20 It's number one. Tessa 33:21 Right? You love this film you lovelies and be sorry. Nigel 33:26 After going off in the background, dear lord. Tessa 33:31 Oh, it was it was because of On Her Majesty's Secret Service. There had to be fireworks while talking about this film. Nigel 33:36 Yeah, so I think yes, this is the best Bond film. I'm sorry to all of you who are in jail for not putting it number one, but like I mean, I don't make the rules. This okay. So you remember how I said that I really enjoyed the Gulf scene in Gulf finger. My one gripe, my one gripe against this film is the bomb talks about heraldry for slightly too long. That's true. I feel like if heraldry is an important plot point in this it is it's really important and it ties into the world is not enough. That motto and that kind of because that ties into Tracy and him getting married to Tracy at the end. But I feel like that scene where he explains it to the women at profiles. I still can't get over. That's his plan. It's an allergy clinic to make a bunch of like mind controlled sleeper soldier women or what like, but yeah, I feel like it's just been a tad shorter. Like I mean, I'm more on the side of how Tessa was with like how bond and Tracy find a relationship on their own terms. I don't find it like I don't have as much of a problem with it as you seem. At least and I'm not saying that's a wrong reading. It's just like that's not what I have a gripe with. It's just like I have a bit too much boredom in that scene. That's definitely a scene where I would check my phone. But I think laser is really good at emoting the heartbreak when Tracy dies and it's like that's where it's needed out of all of the Bond films. I think that's a more impactful death than Vesper cuz I really could not give shit one about like bond being sad over Vespers death because that whole half hour at the end of the film of Casino Royale really just ruins it for me So yes, I can't really put into words why this is the best Bond film but I'm correct and there there's no other answer. Tessa 35:42 I personally also just love Diana Rigg in this because there's this whole sequence there's a car chase where she's the one driving the car she's like more reckless than bond is like bond is the one who's like slow like slow down like please actually like drives it onto like an ice rink and like it's just she is She is just such a great character and like I said like it's kind of strange because she tries to commit suicide at the beginning so we know she's kind of reckless with her own life and like, the way that she and bond find this connection through that is just really fascinating to me. And I also at the same time I also really enjoy all the women in the allergy clinic seducing him like they like showing up in his room. And like I just I find that to be incredibly funny because he's still a spy, he still has to do his job. So he's like trying to figure out what's going on with them. This is another bit where I would watch a spin off show what happens to these women after the events of On Her Majesty's Secret Service. Like do they just go and be normal people like do they become like an elite squad of assassins? Like what happens to them? Elyse 36:53 I also really enjoy that I feel like there needs to be some sort of like Black Widow spin off from all the ladies in bond that are Nigel 37:01 instead of the Red Room. It's like the allergy room. Sam 37:04 Yeah, yeah. The allergy soldier. Nigel 37:09 Yes. Sam 37:12 So this is not objective only the best Nigel 37:19 Bond film wrong but continue. And Sam 37:24 I don't it's it's difficult to argue that lays and B is the best bond when we only had one shot at it and Dalton's not much better. But this is my favorite Bond film. Even though it's not the best one. I've made it clear throughout the course of the 17 hours we've been doing this podcast that the novelization the adaptation from novel to screen matters to me. And this I think is the best one of the lot. The thing about Casino Royale that bugs me is the book and with that line the debt which makes it into the the Craig Casino Royale. What that does in the book series coming first is is shows that any time you get attached, this is what's gonna happen. That's the lesson bond learns. And so he will have relationships with women, but he won't take them seriously. That has not been earned until the Daniel Craig movie. And as Nigel said, I don't think they treat it correctly. The thing about honor Majesty's Secret Service which is not earned as much in the film as it is in the book series. It is the catalyst it is the turning it is the turning point it's the climactic moment whatever you want to call it is the moment where he says I know what love is, and I'm gonna do it anyway and gets paid back with her murder. Because as long as he's in the business he's in he's always gonna get screwed over and I know that's what no time to die of is about as well. But I always want the original Tracy version better than whatever they do with it in the next film it's just it's such a powerful thing. And even though the film franchise doesn't earn it in the same way even though the movie is not as good as its source material because none of them are it's still very emotionally affecting even minus a lot of the build up even though they throw it all away with the trash fire that is Diamonds Are Forever in that stupid stupid sorry Elise stupid scene where they kill off Blofeld even though they ruin everything. That movie in itself is still you know, Elyse 39:53 that movie is number 23 on my list so I'm not Sam 39:57 so that just leaves us with the final movie on our list. Number one, the movie so nice. They made it twice. 1965 Thunderball, the one with a bomb heist casino high jinks, the best Bond girl and an elaborate underwater action sequence replete with sharks. What? It's a really solid movie. Nigel 40:23 Sorry some Don't you mean Never Say Never again? Sam 40:26 Never say that title of that movie. Ever. Never again. Tessa 40:40 Nigel Yes, where's Thunderball on your list? Nigel 40:43 Um, I don't know. I think it's around maybe a seven like it's a really enjoyable film. But I can't I don't know what it is. But there's something from stopping me. There's something stopping me from that's how words work. Putting in my top five. Sam 41:05 Allegedly, that's how they were Nigel 41:06 allegedly Yes. Who knows? I could just be speaking a new version of English. But yeah, like this is, this is really like a fun film. Like it kind of, I don't know, if I were to point at something which captures what bond is quintessentially, I think, out of all of the films even though this is not my top film, this is not my favorite Bond film. I think I would point A Thunderball because it's like kind of the last as well it's like kind of like the last great Hurrah before bond becomes really uncertain as to what it is you know, like I think on Her Majesty's Secret Service is really good but the general consensus is not that you know, and then we have Kyrie coming back and then we go into you know, we go into Roger Moore and Timothy Dalton and that kind of thing. So I think this is like I think this is what bond is in a nutshell is nothing to do with the plot it's entirely to do with like it's entirely to do with the vibes you know, I really like I really like Largo ship I like like the set design and you know, lighter is in this film. But yeah, I think this is like this is what bond it's and I I'm trying to remember now wash position Thunderball is in the original novelisations when that came up, but it's not like early on. Those are my thoughts. I realize at least we'll probably have more like important thoughts on how good the film is but it's like I don't know this is this is quintessential bonk. Elyse 42:56 I don't think that any of my thoughts are more or less important. Platon anybody else's minor like I have a very you know the emoji with the starry eyes like that's how I look. Yeah. All right, Tessa 43:14 where's So you said that Casino Royale. What is it number nine Thunderball is number nine. in the neighborhood Nigel 43:20 of angels. Yeah, really not early on. Tessa 43:23 Right. So I happen to I'm cheating a little bit because I know that this was Elise's favorite before Casino Royale apparently jumped line. But tell us why Thunderball is so good in your opinion. Elyse 43:40 So yeah, I This was my number one for a long time and I'll be I'll be honest, like I do think that number like Casino Royale and thunder ball could be you know, interchangeable. I my top Bond movie, depending on the day, you know, and the mood I'm in the first time I watched this movie. I just was like, staring at it. And when they got to the I know this is towards the end. But when they got to the underwater fight scene, I was like, what the EFF am i watching? Like, it was so funny. I had such I had so much fun watching this movie. This movie was actually supposed to be adapted first. But they didn't because they didn't and I'm glad because the budget for Doctor now would not have been enough to like properly do this underwater fight scene. And you need that in this film. I I like the plot of the you know, give us money or we're gonna blow you up like that's so basic, but it really works. I love the beginning where he's at that spa or he's getting his fitness tests. I guess. It is I sometimes like it but it seems like a fitness test slash spa it doesn't really matter but he's like on that rat and the thing that they the woman go I forget the name of the character calls it the rat like the rack or whatever and I was like that looks like it would be really relaxing. Like I want to go on that machine so that someone could like stretch out my muscles and stuff, but I do not want to almost get killed on it. I really like Largo as a villain and I agree like Domino is pretty high on my Bond girl list. I really like her a lot. I this is another example of like, Bond sleeping with someone whose brother he killed and and I don't know, she doesn't find out that right away. Tessa 45:50 okay with it though, like of all of the Bond girl. She's like, Yeah, he was not a good person. Like, Elyse 45:57 yeah, it was very like, well, he was a bad guy. So what else did we expect? Um, there were I do. I do find that sometimes I get lost in like, what's going on in with the plot in this movie, which I think is something that just happens with me and all Bond movies. Like I'll get really into the characters of the gadgets and I'm like, wait, what's happening right now and it's fine. I don't really need to know. So there is a little bit of that, but I just, I just think that this is the absolute most fun of all the Bond movies. And I want to say that after rewatching all of these I already just like want to rewatch them all over again. Sam said something very similar to the other day actually. Tessa 46:41 I love Thunderball because it's just it's like a gold finger to me it just has such great iconography for bond like the the underwater fight is just it's so innovative and like even today like I want I watched it for the first time this last year and I was just like nobody's doing stuff like this now like nobody's thinking about set pieces like this you know even though there's some really good action movies that have come out over the last couple years nobody is truly like innovating in the way that clearly someone was like underwater fight scene let's go like it's just so beautifully shot and so beautifully done. And this is really the first movie where we get the sharks in the swimming pool which is like so Oh right. Like you know it's so bond and I agree with Nigel it's just such a Bond film like this is where they had really perfected the formula. The tropes are all spot on it is so good and that first scene where they steal the plane like where the person like infiltrates the the point like the plane crew and then crashes the plane in the ocean and then they had this whole like mechanism for taking the bombs away like it's just it's so it's so visually just perfect in a lot of ways like I like you said it almost doesn't matter what's happening it's just like watching it is such a visual feast in so many ways and that's why I think it's at the top it's just even though Connery is not my favorite bond even though there are perhaps films with more interesting plot lines This one is just so visually perfect. Elyse 48:17 Is this the one where he's also I forget his he's wearing that like romper outfit. I think that that is so iconic to me as like a bond outfit that's not a suit or a tuxedo. And I just Sean Connery was a not wonderful human but he looked really good in that romper that terry cloth romper? Sam 48:44 So prior to rewatching this film with Tessa this film is right in the middle of the pack probably my least favorite of the quote unquote good Bond movies. Because to me, it's like the it's the picture that comes with the frame. It's there's nothing wrong with it. And it is you know very well composed. But yeah, I'm much more of a when it comes to aesthetic I am definitely more of a one direction person. I don't need the classically beautiful I need the again I'm not gonna say it you're not going to make me say it. But anyway the One Direction style of beauty right? You're right you know you get Did you get it does get it. Okay. But watching it through again, with Tessa. My opinion stays the same. Except for Domino. I think she alone could probably get this movie into the top 10 for me, but it is definitely not my favorite, but I'll grant you it's the best of the bunch. And then All I have left to say is and now for part three of our podcast within a podcast, Bond actors in peril. The scene with bond and the shark was shot with a clear material between Sean Connery and the shark. Except they didn't have enough of the material and the shark could swim through. And the look of fright and horror you see on Sean Connery space is the look of horror when he realized that fact. This has been an episode of the podcast within the podcast, Bond actors in peril. Nigel, I've saved this question for you for last Oh, joy. How? How did you come to be somebody with an interest in James Bond? I don't know. Anything happened? Nigel, what's your first memory of watching bond? Nigel 51:04 My first memory of watching Bond was probably catching a bit of golden eye on the TV. But like even even then, that wasn't like anything to galvanize me into. Because if you ask a lot of my Twitter, Mutual's what my personality is, they'll say James Bond, because I aggressively like tweeted discourse about it when I rewatch the films The first time. And I think I did that mainly because I, I enjoy taking on large amounts of work, where it's like, oh, Sam 51:41 no, yeah, Nigel 51:42 we're it's like, Sam 51:42 is that No, that can't be true? No, obviously, no. But how many? How many podcasts we up to? Nigel 51:49 Ah, do you want the honest answer to that? Sam 51:52 You don't know anymore, do you know, continue. Nigel 51:59 So we're like, I'll take on a project and that I'm not necessarily a creative one. But it's like, you know, last year, I was like, I'm going to read all of the Wheel of Time books before the year goes out. So it's like I was reading two of those, I can see some has her head. What Sam 52:23 I have to read the second one, before the first season starts, I think out of Nigel 52:28 time, I read two of them a month. Oh, God, and then in the run up to rhythm of war coming out, I haven't read the stormlight archive. So I was like, I'm gonna read one of these a month as well. So that was my project for last year, in the back half of the year and the first half of the year, up to the original release date of no time to die, there was a post being like, if you watch three Bond films a week, you'll be up to date for when the new one comes out. I said, You know what, I'll do that, because I really liked the look of the trailer. And I was like, you know, I'm want to see that. I want to see whether it's any better than the dreaded Spectre. But yeah, that kept getting pushed back and back. So I ended up literally just for no reason, watching 24 Bond films. And because Twitter is my entire personality, and I need to tweet every single deranged thought that comes into my head. That's where it all got pulled out. Does that answer your question? Sam 53:28 And I just think it's interesting that those of us who were born long after this franchise was born, that we, most of us realize. Well, well, I mean, you know, the bond of record for y'all is definitely the bond of different from the bond record for me when I was born. But I think it's interesting that for those of us who, you know, came to it a little bit later, who found it on their own and, and whose parents or whose family introduced it to them. You know, Nigel, you mentioned the story about I believe it was Quantum of Solace. So, this is the last question for everybody. And I'll go ahead and stay with you, Nigel. Why does bond matter? Oh, Nigel 54:29 what if I said Volland doesn't? Why would that be? I have Okay, so it's like you said how they're kind of like you would not be surprised if the next Bond film is the last Bond film where they're like, you know, the kind of run out of story they've told the whole story just I don't think, personally that the next one will be the last one because I think franchises and money will make another one even if there's no sense for another one, but I think bond is past It's prime in the sense that like, this is a legacy franchise that's been going on since the 60s. And this is this is kind of tying into a lot of what we've been saying like Tessa was saying with Thunderbolt where they were innovating with fight scenes, like underwater and stuff, I don't think bomb has done anything revolutionary or anything that like other film franchises, which are doing other things better. You know, I don't think it's really done anything altogether that impressive, I think Skyfall which is like, you know, that was really well critically lauded. I think like that one did something quite good. In terms of like how the French Skyfall does to the bond franchise wash the last Jedi does to Star Wars, and what Thor Ragnarok does to the Thor franchise where he takes every single bit of iconography that we've associated with the franchise, and it strips it away and makes the character deal with that, as it is, you know, so I think that was kind of good. But apart from that bondas past its sell by day, I think, the position of kind of a womanizer. And, you know, slightly chauvinistic, and the fact that they're like, well, a woman can't be bombed a woman, like this is what the production team are like, well, a woman can't be bombed we have other strong roles for strong females, but a woman won't be bond. And it's like wash. I like I feel like bond is to set in stone and being a man. And there are other things like this, like Doctor Who, which recently shucks out off with Jodie Whittaker being the doctor, but it's like, if, even with Doctor Who if the next doctor is a man, people are gonna be like, Oh, well, it was only a gimmick. And you have a because there's this legacy of a male presenting protagonist. I feel like bond is to set in its ways for today's culture of representation and inclusion. So yeah, but I don't think bond matters. But I think it mattered a lot once. Sam 57:07 Yeah, it'll be it'll be interesting to see, because we had the hot priest in the last movie. It'll be interesting to see what fleabag herself does. With the the plot. You know, I know we don't have her on screen, but we had her behind the camera, helping to write I'm going to be interested in that. Nigel 57:29 You don't know. She might have a little cameo. Sam 57:33 Yeah, I certainly hope so. She just exited. Mr. And Mrs. Smith, reboot with Donald Glover. And that was that was really sad. I really enjoy her a lot. All right, Tessa, I'm gonna go to you next, why does bond matter? Or not? Tessa 57:49 Or not? I know, I think bond matters. And I think it's because we can argue about whether it's past its sell by date or whatever. Like I, I totally can see that as an argument when it comes to a franchise that's been going on for more than half a century at this point. I think that bond matters because it really invented the spy genre in film in a lot of ways. And I'm not sure I could name a film that does the spy genre better than bond like it is the template. And it's also kind of the gold standard in a lot of ways, even when there's been bad Bond films, even when there's been bad, you know, acting or whatever. It's sort of this recurring fixture in pop culture that nothing nothing is quite like it. I mean, a lot of things try to be bond, but nothing can quite recaptured that particular structure, the particular tropes of bond. And, you know, I just think that as a piece of pop culture, it is significant in its impact on other pieces of pop culture. And also, it's just, it is its own thing, like it's invented a genre, but it's also its own thing. I think that would be the takeaway from what I'm trying to say here very badly. It's kind of like, you know, Lord of the Rings is to fantasy like, fantasy. The fantasy has come from Lord of the Rings and it's true. There's some bad fantasy that's tried to be Lord of the Rings, but you can't really recapture that. That same you know, it's it's a flash in a bottle, right? You can't really recapture it. So that that would be my two cents on it. Sam 59:33 Elise, Elyse 59:34 I agree. Hi. Um, I agree with a lot of what Tessa and Nigel have said. I don't know if I agree with the bond being past its prime though. I agree that where the world is now with regard to diversity and inclusion might not be something that can align with James Bond based You know how they've have said, you know, we probably wouldn't have a woman or even a person of color being bond. I think bond is interesting culturally in that. I don't think it says something about where, because, and this part of this is that it takes time to make a movie. I don't think that it's fine is a commentary on what's going on right now. I think a bond is kind of like what was going on a couple years ago, like every, I feel like it's like a wrap up of what I feel like bond is like a little late to fads almost. And how like Star Wars, you know, came out and then Moonraker came out two years later, and then we had the same conversation about Octopussy. And there was a third movie that you mentioned, Sam and I don't remember that was like, similar to another movie that came out but i i love bond personally, but I maybe also Besides its impact on spy genre, I might also fall closer to what Nigel said of maybe it not mattering. And I wanted to touch on something that Tessa said when we were talking about a View to a Kill, and how Grace Jones had said that bond was conservative. And actually I agree with Grace Jones about this, not from like, a sexual revolution kind of conservatism, like our anti sexual revolution conservatism, but the like, men are from like a patriarchal standpoint, I guess. They you know, they aren't having a woman be James Bond or Jamie bond, I guess she could be called. I do find it a little bit stifling with regard to the change that I think at least us this group wants to see in the world. That all being said, I love it anyway. So I don't know if I think it matters, but I am going to enjoy whatever they do with it. Unless it's like completely egregious. Nigel 1:02:26 Bond pretends to be a Japanese person again. Elyse 1:02:30 No. Yeah. Then I'm like, No, thank you. Sam 1:02:34 Well, you know, a few years back, they talked about doing a spin off movie for Halle Berry's character Jinx. And so the idea of having a double o agent who is not bond, you know, perhaps opens it up. And so right. We are coming up on the end, this podcast and it'll Mark six hours since we started this marathon session. Now, Nigel has its own reasons for doing things. But I can at least speak for the three of us to say that we wouldn't do this if it wasn't something we cared a great deal about. And I think perhaps that is true for Nigel as well. Oh, yeah. I Nigel 1:03:17 care about bond But yeah, I don't necessarily like him. Sam 1:03:21 And you know, the the thing about it is is i i agree with you, I think that bonds time, as an active duty agent may be coming to a close, you don't necessarily have to stop the double o franchise, if you don't want to, but you know, why bond matters is the solid corpus of movies that have been made these these action set pieces, these these tropes that Tessa talked about that have been crystallized, and truly nobody has done it better the other counterpoint is the lack of array spy. In fact, you have a direct juxtaposition, because who stars in the Taylor Panama film adaptation? That's right, James Bond himself, Pierce Brosnan. And nobody talks about that movie hardly at all. Because the spy thing that's in our pop culture consciousness is James Bond. And that's what the legacy of the movies are, is. I think, as I said before, I think it's time for Eon to end. I do not think that they are competent. I think they have been successful despite themselves. I think that was certainly true for the elder broccoli and Salzman that they knew to hire the talent. Those production designers, those stunt men, that's why as a craft statement, these movies are so good, but I don't know that the third generation of aeons, and I'm not saying anything mean about Greg, I don't know him. I don't know any of them. But I'm concerned about shepherding this into a third generation of creators. I think that the reprise that is Daniel Craig's era is a great place to end it. I don't think there can ever be a woman double oh seven. And frankly, they cast my post Craig pic, as cue. So I'm so well on that. That's right. I thought Ben Whishaw would be a great bond before he got cast as cute. So that kind of did that for me. Having said all that, I'm ready to start watching them again tomorrow. Which is what I said, a couple of days ago, I'm ready to watch them again, just because nobody does this better. They're great movies. I don't know that they need to be great movies in perpetuity in terms of keeping making them. But I, at least you said it very early on. They're just like friends that you can visit again from time to time. This is my equivalent of going back to the Shire. Ever since Abrams did me dirty with the other franchise I love. This is the one that I can go back to. I think that's it. All right. I think that's it. We did it. Five hours and 54 minutes after we started. We did it. Tune in next week. Tessa, take it away. spooked. tober wait. Tessa 1:06:35 spook tober Brite of spook tober Sam 1:06:39 Nigel, where can people find you online? Nigel 1:06:42 You can find me on Twitter at spicy nijo where I coming up with too many podcasts to remember the functioning ones will be linked to my bio. So you can find them there so I don't have to spend any more time and keep y'all here. Trying to plug them they're pretty cool. Yeah. Follow my Twitter. Elyse 1:07:09 Elise. Yes, you can find me on Twitter at Le n letterbox sorry let me start that over. You can find me on Twitter and letter box at Elise underscore 10 d el YS, e underscore T and di where I am trying to figure out my next movie project though like Sam I may just restart rewatching James Bond and you can find my pod cast pod race assist Deep Space Nine sorry, you can find my podcast pod wraiths a Star Trek Deep Space Nine and rewatch podcast at pod rates pod w ra ITH s on Twitter and Instagram. I should Sam 1:07:50 point out here I don't think I've brought it up yet. But we are in a mere five days beginning our project that will not see the light of day till December but it is our x men rewatch mini Podcast Series our holiday series so that'll be super exciting. We're starting that we're doing it one week at a time instead of the insanity that was watching a fast and furious today and then cutting the episode on the same day. Because we too are gluttons for punishment. Nigel is not just about you, Tessa, Nigel 1:08:24 I don't want things to be about Tessa 1:08:25 me. You can find me on Twitter and letterbox at Swehla Tessa Swehla is spelled sw EH la. I also just want to briefly plug that this very week, we are dropping the first episodes of one of Nigel's podcasts with me. Nanny augs book club where we reread Sam 1:08:49 time travel, you'll already have those by the time Oh, that's already happen. Tessa 1:08:55 Anyway, be short. Yeah, be sure to listen to one of Nigel's podcasts the one that she does with me called nanny augs pod cat or nanny ogs book club. You are really throwing me off right now. Nanny ogs nanny ogs book club where we reread all of Terry Pratchett's books one week at a time, so be sure to check those out as well. Sam 1:09:31 Find me on twitter at Sam underscore Morris nine. And while we're just plugging all the podcast, be sure to listen to our spin up podcast. Tessa watches last where I talked to Tessa about last. Send us your thoughts about James Bond. Terry Pratchett lost Pearl Jam, Star Trek, just Annie pop culture that you've experienced crossed off your list lately, what you'd like for us to do just ridiculously long episodes about in the future, or really anything else that comes to mind. Find us on Twitter and Instagram at monkey backlog, email us at monkey off my backlog@gmail.com because I know how time travel works. Log on to monkey off my backlog.com That's right, we have a website now. Our theme song is hot shot by Scott Holmes and can be found on Scott Holmes music.com please rate review and subscribe on iTunes. Follow us on Spotify, Stitcher, Amazon podcasts, Google podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcast. Get that monkey off your back Transcribed by https://otter.ai