Tessa 0:00 So Sam, would you rather rewatch Good Morning Vietnam or Apocalypse Now? Sam 0:06 Hold on. I don't think we're allowed to talk about Good Morning Vietnam anymore because as of today, Disney has trademarked Robin Williams. Tessa 0:31 Welcome to monkey off my backlog the podcast where we exercise our pop culture demons by tackling our media to do lists one week at a time. I'm your host, Tessa Swehla and with me is the lawful good character on this podcast, Dr. Sam Morris. Hello. Andy is once again on leave today. So joining us in the third chair is host of pod rates. A Deep Space Nine podcast, Elise, we're so happy to have you here with us today, Elise. Hi, I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me. In this episode, Sam does not need the Kwik e Mart at least got lost in a dream, they think. And I watched saga Herrera's origin story. So let's go ahead and jump right in. We're going to be talking about a lot of different properties today. I feel like let's go ahead and start with you, Sam, because you watched problem with a poo. And I know you're a huge Simpsons fan. So please enlighten us tell us about the problem with a poop. Sam 1:30 So the problem with APU is a 2017. documentary Created and directed by hari kondabolu. This was a documentary that had been gestating with him for a at least a couple of years. He talks about how he worked on W. Kamau bells. totally biased show and how he was kind of voted on by bell to make this documentary. So this documentary is a about 42 minutes. It's meant to be an hour length with commercials I think it ran on Tru TV to begin with. And so it's based on what kondabolu talks about as a problem with APU which is basically his existence problem is that upou is reduced to a stereotype. And that stereotype negatively impacts not just Indian Americans, but basically any South Asian, you know, something is that broad of a stereotype that's that pretty much tells you it's a problem in and of itself. And so this this documentary is kind of it runs along two tracks. The first track is doing the work of the documentary, which is documenting what up who's cultural relevance has had as part of the cultural relevance of the larger cultural relevance of The Simpsons. He has a lot of Indian, South Asian American Hollywood types, actors like kalpen, Aziz Ansari, aasif Mandvi, who, of course started on The Daily Show, but is now on evil. Hassan Minaj, who was also on The Daily Show. Is that right? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, a lot of daily show stuff, which probably tells you something about it, neatness, and maybe how this is changing. But it talks about how this voice created by a white person has had this deleterious effect on you know, South Asian American actors, comedians for quite a while. And then the second track is about kind of a lose attempt to have Hank Azaria, the voice of upu on the documentary and his areas, ducking and then ultimately refusing the request. So yeah, that's that's what the documentary is. Tessa 3:53 Now at least have Are you first of all, are you a fan of The Simpsons? And second of all, have you seen this documentary or heard anything about this documentary? Unknown Speaker 4:01 There are a few Simpsons episodes I've seen numerous times, but I was not like a regular watcher of the show or and still not. And I have heard of this documentary, but I have not watched it. I am. I am curious to watch it. That is something that I've thought about watching before even though I wasn't a Simpsons fan. Tessa 4:24 Well, I mean, I think to talk about the Simpsons, you have to end this documentary does this as well, you have to talk about just like the absolute saturation of The Simpsons, in pop culture, especially in the 90s. I mean, I feel like it still is in a lot of ways, but like, if you were any if you were alive during the 90s I feel like you knew a lot of The Simpsons even if you didn't watch it. So that I think speaks to the importance of perhaps documentaries like this. But Sam, when we were talking about becoming bond, we talked about a documentary style mattering What did you think of the style of this particular documentary? Sam 5:03 So Tessa has a problem with documentaries where they reenact things. We started watching make millions, we watched first couple of episodes of that. And it's, it's just a bonkers story, but, but the way that the documentary is told is very off putting. And so this again, it's only 42 minutes in length. So it's pretty short. kondabolu does a lot of narration, you know, talking about his process that's interspersed with some clips from the Simpsons, some clips from his stand up comedy, other clips of pop culture, and then and interviews. You know, he talks with Aziz Ansari, who, if you remember, if you've seen the first season, a master of none goes on, you know, that kind of that rant, there's an episode about Fisher Stevens from short circuit who basically brown faces and plays an Indian or an Indian American, but is actually a white dude. kalpen, you know, from Harold and Kumar, and Designated Survivor and house and all of these roles talks about how much he hates the Simpsons, because of our poo kondabolu actually likes the Simpsons, despite poo. And so there's just a lot of that. There's some nice little animated sequences. There's one, you know, where kondabolu at the end, he gets to punch the big time stereotypical Indian characters from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom takes out Peter Sellers character from the party. You know, so it's, it's, it's good. It's more What do you think about when you think about a typical documentary, you know, you, you talk to people you talk about you tell what the problem is, but you show it with clips. So it's very traditional in that way, it was pretty quickly paced. I really enjoyed it. Unknown Speaker 7:01 I feel like I'm more interested in seeing it now that you've mentioned that they talk about other pieces of media, like the Temple of Doom, which is something that I remember loving as a kid and like looking back, and it's just Tessa 7:16 really problematic. Yeah, there's a few pieces of pop culture that they talk about. There's also this really interesting segment, I believe, about halfway through where he talks about, he sort of makes the connection between Appu and temple doom and all of these properties with minstrel worry. And he talks to Whoopi Goldberg about that, because what the golberg, which I didn't know as like a giant collection of different, like pieces of pop culture and different like artifacts of men story, which I thought was really interesting. So yeah, it is it is not exactly what I thought it was going to be either looking into it, or watching it myself, it wasn't exactly what I was imagining going into it because I thought it was going to be very focused on Appu as a character, but he does a great job of connecting it with all these other things as well. So Sam, do you think that there's a problem with Appu? Sam 8:11 I think it's important to I don't, I guess this is really the first time we've talked about the Simpsons on this podcast. And it's a huge piece of pop culture. For me, it's probably one of the defining pieces of pop culture, I am Bart Simpson's age, if he actually aged naturally, The show premiered in 1989, Bart was always is perpetually a 10 year old. That's how old I was. When the first Simpsons episode aired. I'm also basically the same age as Harry Potter. So that's also deeply, deeply problematic. You know, there's clearly a problem, a big problem with the Simpsons, you know, they make very broad stereotypes, and those things haven't particularly aged well, as kondabolu says, you don't have to throw out the entire series. It's okay to acknowledge the things that were wrong. And Tessa mentions the Whoopi Goldberg segment. And, and I think she said something very concisely. And clearly, she said, You know, it's hard to get mad at people who act out of ignorance, when you don't know you don't know. And and he kind of raises his eyebrows when she says that, and he's like, yeah, I really just don't think I think people are just ignorant. They don't know. And and I think right now, I think where we are in 2021, and I think we've been here for a little while. People know, now there's, there's no, you can't really use ignorance as an excuse anymore. And so kondabolu talks with one of the previous writers of The Simpsons, and he is still really trying hard to display that ignorance and it just doesn't come off. Well. It took until 2020, February of 2020. So this document it comes out in 2017. In February 2020. Hank, his area says he will no longer voice so it took three years and kondabolu is not The first person to to talk about this. He was not when he was making this documentary. The issue has already been raised with Hank, his area. There's a Huffington Post article that he references in the documentary that references both his work and but the general problem without who is, but they've gotten there. Because of this documentary, perhaps a few months later, last June, the producers of The Simpsons said all voices, all non white characters that are voiced by white people will no longer be voiced by those people. So that includes Hank Azaria, also voices Carl Carlson, the black police officer, and Harry Shearer also voices Julius Hibbert, the pediatrician, family doctor. And so, you know, they're hiring other people to voice those voices, I believe. So yeah, there's, there's a problem. And all you have to do and this gets pointed out in the documentary, all you have to do, acknowledge the problem, fix it. And that's it. It's remarkably simple. I think that's that's that. And that probably extends to a lot of problems we have with, with with race and ethnocentrism today, all you have to do, nobody's asking you to do anything? Well, some people are, but most people are asking you just acknowledge the problem and don't do it anymore. Doesn't seem difficult. But yeah, there's a problem. Hopefully, it's better. And we can just concentrate on the main problem with this instance, which is just not very good anymore. Tessa 11:37 So if there's no longer a problem with a pose, should people watch this documentary, Sam 11:42 it's a good documentary. And as I just said, People seem to have a real issue with this, this concept of acknowledge the problem, fix it, and then it's not a problem anymore. This documentary is a really good exercise in listening to people who have a genuine grievance about, you know, this, this kind of issue, who are just saying, It's, here's the solution, if you can get that easily packaged in 42 minutes, in a very, I think, non offensive way. Why not? But you don't even have to read anything. You just watch TV. Come on. Tessa 12:17 That's my favorite way to learn. Just watch TV, just watch it. Yeah, I also really admired the way in which the people who were most affected by this got to talk about how they were affected by it like this idea of it doesn't actually matter what the impetus for this character is. This is how this character has been used to hurt us. Like it's very like intervention like, which I appreciate. Sam 12:44 So I forgot to mention the reason why we watch this. The reason that we watched it is test has been bothering me for years to watch the voice acting documentary. I know that voice, which is a documentary from a few years back that john DiMaggio, who voices bender on Futurama, which is also created by Matt graining, the creator of The Simpsons, he wanted to put a spotlight on voice acting. And during that documentary, lo and behold, they talk about not just Hank has area, doing non white voices, but also john DiMaggio, doing non white voices doing voices of black men, and you even have black voice astir voice actors, you're talking about how good he does that voice. And it's just deeply uncomfortable. Because we know a couple of years later, this documentary came out. So I said, well, let's just watch that then. and kind of see what the response is. So that was that was a really interesting experience. And even looking at how the problem has surfaced, been addressed, and in many, many ways has been fixed all in the space of less than a decade, which just goes to show you if people want to fix the thing they can. Tessa 14:03 Well, and it sparked all of these like other people that had been voicing characters of color, handing the rolls over to other people. Oh, gosh, what's her name? Big male, Sam 14:15 Kristen Bell did something in one of those show. Yes. Tessa 14:21 That was Central Park. I yeah, I don't watch either of those shows. But I remember her being in the news. Jenny Slate also voiced a character in big mouth, black character, and she turned that character over to a black actress. So you can also talk about I think there's room to also talk about commercialization with this type of thing, like how white actors are getting paid basically to do these roles that could have gone to people of color. This documentary doesn't really get into that as much because it's more about like the cultural impact of upu. I'd be interested to see a documentary that actually talks about like, who gets paid for these jobs. Sam 14:58 Yeah, and I guess to take it one One step backward. We're still we've started watching season three, Phineas and Ferb. And I'm trying to think proven Myron Marsh, I believe are their names, the two creators, they're actually in that voice acting documentary, you know, talking about what they do. And then we watched an episode, I think it was the last episode we watched, like the first half of it was like this prehistoric bit, which wasn't very good. And then the second one was setting all the characters in China, like in a in a middle ages kind of situation, and is deeply offensive. You know, it's just like, he can't keep doing this stuff. But But again, that was even before the documentary existed, about the voice acting so years before the problem with APU, which doesn't make it okay. But I bet that episode wouldn't be made today. And that's good. And hopefully baljeet if he existed, would be voiced by, you know, a, an actor of South Asian descent, or it just wouldn't be a stereotypical character at all. It could be that character. But his his, you know, ancestry doesn't have to be a part of it. Tessa 16:14 All right. We're really bad at transition. So I'm just going to move to the next. But at least since we haven't had you on the show before, we like to ask Do people have questions about their list making habits since this is a pop culture productivity show? So since the show is about getting things off your list? Do you have an actual list? Are you team chaos? Do you use a letterbox? Do you have a Netflix queue? Like what's your what's your system for keeping track of what you want to watch or read or play or whatever pop culture that you tend to engage with? Unknown Speaker 16:47 So I do use Netflix queues and the queues on the other streaming apps, but I'm pretty much an agent of chaos, except for when it comes to reading. I use Goodreads pretty religiously, to just you know, to keep my list of books. But yeah, the list is mostly in my head, which means that things get forgotten a lot. I do use letterboxed for knowing what I've watched already, but my watch list on there probably doesn't have more than 30 movies. And I use TV time for my TV watching. And there's probably about five to 10 shows on all this there that I haven't started yet. But it's mostly just in my head, and which means that most of it will never get done. Tessa 17:35 Yeah, so you're definitely more team chaos except for reading. Do you feel like there's a difference between reading and your other forms of media that caused you to like add more things to like a reading list than to a watch list? Unknown Speaker 17:48 Yeah, I think that it's because I have a lot of friends that use that service also that also use Goodreads. So it's very easy to see what everyone's else is reading. So I think it's the fact that there's like a social media aspect to it. So if a friend likes a book, I'm like, Okay, well, that sounds interesting to me. I'll add it and then so I think that's that like, that's the reason when which I feel like is true with letterboxed also, but I don't feel that way about you know, Netflix cues and stuff like that. It's not you don't show like what are your friends watching? Tessa 18:24 It's not real unless somebody else is watching it. So yeah, so yeah, chaos. So would you say that your what's your ratio of like reading things to watching things then? Because we usually have people who don't do a lot of reading on the podcast. So I'm very, like, curious as to what your balances. So it's been a little bit different during the pandemic. Last year, I Unknown Speaker 18:51 read 70 books. And this year, I've only read 18. So I feel like that has changed. But I also feel like I'm busier this year than I was last year I started podcasting so there's not as much time for i get i get like tired when I'm reading more, so I'm not reading as much as I usually usually do. But this year, I binged to pretty much all 12 seasons of Murder She Wrote and I have seen 15 seasons of Grey's Anatomy, I'm trying to get caught up and so watching television, or streaming TV shows is my like, number one lately. Last year, and this year, I did try to I am trying to watch more movies than I have in the past. But I think reading is taking a backseat when it used to be the thing I did the most Tessa 19:46 well yeah, cuz you're like tackling these super long, complex shows like Grey's Anatomy and Murder She Wrote I mean, that would make sense. I mean, you're also rewatching D space nine for your Oh yes, rates as well. Which is not a short show. I mean, it's not as long as those other ones but but also I'm very Unknown Speaker 20:07 that required for me. I the way I process is I watch every episode twice. So it does take longer than just watching a TV show we No, no, I have to watch everything. I watch it once to get like the plot. And then I watch it a second time with my taking notes and everything like that. So yeah, a lot of there's been a lot of Star Trek in the last year. Sam 20:30 I feel like we do a lot of headcanon in not only in this show, but but in this in this house. And so all I can imagine is that Angela Lansbury his character from Gaslight, you know, as she as she gets older, you know that, that it's that same character who's now Jessica Fletcher, you know, novelist who solves mysteries. And so I think the truth of Murder She Wrote, is that over the course of how many seasons, she is gaslit into believing that that many crimes can happen in this small town, and there's not something like really wrong happening. Tessa 21:12 At the end of that show that the town is built on a hill mouth like that, like the Murder She Wrote. I've never seen Murder She Wrote so well. One Unknown Speaker 21:21 of the fun things about Murder She Wrote, and I have to admit, I haven't seen guests late. But um, one of the fun things about Murder She Wrote is it. She goes away a lot because of her book tours and such. So it's not it's not always in Cabot Cove, although I do find those episodes to be the biggest treats. And in season eight, which I think was the best season besides the first season of Murder, She Wrote, she they had her become like a professor at Manhattan University, which I assume was like an NYU. probably couldn't say that. So she actually moved to an apartment in New York City's for like the second half of the series. So she goes to Cabot Cove, like less than less. So I feel like crime in Manhattan is probably a little bit more realistic. But yeah, that Sam 22:10 makes a lot more sense. But it's it's really great. I've seen a fair amount of episodes. Because my, my mom watched it. Maybe my grandmother watched it, too. I really think more than one person. watch that show. Yeah, it's on so begrudgingly. Yeah. So it reminds me of so Charlene Harris's first series before she started writing the vampires. She wrote this character. Her name is Aurora tea garden. Oh, my mom watches those shows. Right? So she's like this four foot 10 inch tall librarian and in this small town, and it's like, Okay, how many murders can happen in this town? Like, you can't do this? Okay. All right. You know, how many times I need to be suspected of doing it? Because Unknown Speaker 23:06 Have you seen that series? Um, I think it's on the Hallmark Channel. So they do Aurora teagarden movies, and each one's like about 90 minutes. My mom watches it. And it starts Candace Cameron. Sam 23:19 Know that that kitty? No, that can't be. That can't be true, actually. I think Cameron puree Yeah, sorry. I made hockey dude. Last name out. Um, yeah. So she so not to be confused with her brother. Unknown Speaker 23:37 Yeah, I think it's on like the Hallmark mysteries channel or something. I don't know. My parents get a lot. That seems right. channels. I didn't know. Early inherit. Yeah, I didn't realize it was the same. I've read all of the True Blood novels. So that is interesting to me. And like the show they went downhill. Sam 24:01 Yeah. Then there's another one. The Shakespeare series, which is has nothing to do with Shakespeare. That's a character. Oh, I don't know that one. And then she does. Yeah. Yeah, it's a nice little cozy murder mystery that has that kind of romance sci fi. That sounds up my alley. I said romance. So I gave you the mic. I have nothing to say. Tessa 24:25 Oh, okay. I thought you were like saying something specific. I was like, I don't know what you're handing off to me. I'm just sitting here going like how are they're not vampires and these other like, because I've I've also big fan of Tru blood. So like, I like all I can think of is at least with like, what's the what's the town? They're in bontemps is the name on Tom. Yeah, Tom. They Yeah. At least Unknown Speaker 24:50 I was saying I just pictured Jason and his sexy bond Tom t shirt. Yeah. Tessa 24:59 At least when At least in that town and at least in like other towns like Riverdale or something, you're like, Okay, like something supernatural is happening here, like I understand like, are like Vampire Diaries attracts bad people. Yeah. Like this just attracts bad people. And that's why this all happens in a small town but like cozy murder mysteries I've just like I don't understand. Sam 25:21 Well, the really interesting thing about all these series is that the whole the whole deal here is that you have people like Charlene Harris who wants to write cozy mysteries, right? murder mysteries, with a little romance, little little borderline soft core stuff going on here, but it's not going to sell in and of itself. So you add the supernatural vampire element and then boom, famous. You Well, I mean, that's not the only example because well, because you've got the Dresden Files, right? He He wants to write sword and sorcery stuff. But the only way he could sell something to a publisher was putting a magician in the middle of Chicago. You know, and I'm not I'm not saying that. I don't know. Like Laurel Laurel K. Hamilton. I don't know if she meant to write urban fantasy or if she did it as a way to make money the way those other two authors did. But that's definitely a big part of that genre is I want to write this, but I have to do this to make it sell. That happens a lot. Unknown Speaker 26:25 I was saying I hope the thought behind Murder She Wrote was just we want her to wear cute outfits. And that's what the parts themselves. Because Tessa 26:32 so so what you're telling me is, is that there's nothing borderline softcore in Murder, She Wrote. Unknown Speaker 26:38 No, I'm there. And Jessica Fletcher does have many potential suitors but she stays single the whole time. She knows what's up. I think she's tough. She's a widow. cottage core cottage. Yeah, she's just a widow. And she doesn't have children. So she's pretty much she she's just rules. Tessa 27:05 She's living the life. Unknown Speaker 27:06 Yeah, she has like a million family members and like nieces and nephews that randomly and like her. One nephew shows up every once in a while. He's a mess. Tessa 27:16 She's like, I can't handle more people in my life. Like that's this is my limit. Yeah, no, I understand that. I understand that. Okay, so again, like making a weird transition genre wise, now that we've talked about romance and cozy, cozy mysteries. Let's talk about someone who wrote none of those things. Shirley Jackson. So what did you watch this week, Elise? Unknown Speaker 27:41 Yes, I watched the 2020 movie surely directed by Josephine Decker and screenplay written by Sarah Gibbons. It's actually based on a novel of the same name by Susan scarf. Meryl. I have not read that book. Elisabeth moss stars as sure as Shirley Jackson and Michael Stolberg. I think that's how you pronounce his last name is plays her husband Stanley Hyman. Oh, Jesse young is Rose nez Netzer, and Logan Lerman is Fred denzer. So basically, this movie is like a portion of Shirley's life while she was writing her 1951 novel hangs a man, which I had not heard of. It's about the disappearance of a college student, Paula Jean Weldon, or it's based on the disappearance of that college student that Paula is a real person that disappeared from Bennington College. But this is like a fictionalized version. So basically, Fred and Rose just got married, and they're moving in with Shirley and Stanley for a bit too, until they get on their feet. So Sam is a professor at Bennington College and Fred is coming to work with him, or for him rather. Unknown Speaker 28:56 Gotcha. So why was this film on your backlog? Unknown Speaker 28:59 I had started reading the haunting of Hill House after the show came out. But I never watched the show because I'm a baby. And I read about half of it. And I liked the book, but I don't know why I haven't finished it. It's really short. It's like nine chapters, I should finish it. But basically, I watched this because I like Elisabeth moss as an actor, I find her to be really compelling. And it took me a really long time to watch it because my co host, Matt on on my podcast also loves Elisabeth moss, and we got this movie on Hulu, and they don't have Hulu and Canada where he lives. So I was like, Oh, I won't watch us until Matt can watch it. And then Matt watched it and I probably watched it six months later. So that's kind of it was like solidarity at first but then like it just kept getting delayed cheating. Tessa 29:54 If one person doesn't have Hulu, Unknown Speaker 29:58 probably also he Wouldn't have cared if I wash it before him, even if it was considered that. Tessa 30:06 So I one of the things I know about you and Matt, is that you're both madmen, fans, aficionados, is that where you got into? Elisabeth moss? Unknown Speaker 30:17 Yes, I did see her in. She's also in the West Wing, but I probably wasn't. Didn't know who she was back then. But yeah, I'm obsessed with her character and Mad Men. Peggy Olson, Sam 30:31 I keep forgetting that she's in the West Wing every so often. Like, Oh, yeah, yeah, she and she and Julie Hill out to do something together. Unknown Speaker 30:39 I know. They were really cute, I thought, but yeah, so mad men is a favorite. And actually, Matt has a podcast about Mad Men, which I've been on a few times. It rules. Sam 30:52 I want to ask you this question. But oh, yeah, I haven't figured it out yet. I want to say on a scale of not great, Bob. And then I can't figure out what the other end of the scale is. Unknown Speaker 31:02 So amusingly, that's actually, that's actually the name of their podcast. It's called not great, Bob, question mark. Sam 31:13 So is surely not great. Bob, Unknown Speaker 31:16 surely is pretty great, Bob. I mean, I don't know that any of the people in Shirley are great, but the movie was great. Tessa 31:25 So what did you think of it overall? Unknown Speaker 31:27 I really liked it. It wasn't a new, a typical. It wasn't a movie style that I would typically watch. Mostly because it was very dreamy. throughout the movie, surely is writing her book. And she kind of uses the character rose as a stand in for Paula in her mind when she's so when she's planning out her novel, like the roses, like the person that she's envisioning. So it's a very dreamy, like movie where it's hard to tell what's actually happening versus what's happening in people's minds, which I really like. The movie was also pretty hot, and like it was a little queer, which I wasn't expecting. All of the performances were amazing. The characters were all very manipulative, but I found it really compelling. I was just wanting to see what everyone was doing next. Elizabeth. Elizabeth, Moss's performance was very unnerving, of kind of reminded me of, I don't know if you've seen her smell, which is a movie she did a couple years ago. That performance was amazing. And so it was this one. You could never really tell what Shirley was thinking like her actions were very out there a lot of the time, and I just enjoyed that. I didn't always know what was going on. Her husband was extremely creepy, and I found myself actively stressed whenever Michael Solberg was on screen. But I didn't, but like it was supposed to be that way. So it wasn't like it was like affecting me. I think the way the movie creator, the director intended. There was some funny Indiana Jones vibes when he was teaching from the perspective of all the like young girls, all the young women in his class were like giggling at everything he said. And so I felt like it was interesting how he had this like outward persona. And then when he was when they were home, he just like, was very, I don't know, he made me very uncomfortable. I would say that the character of Rose is the main focus of the movie, and often a stand in Well, as I said to stand in for Paula during Shirley's processing of her book, but um, oh, Jessie, Young's performance was really good. And she does an excellent job of being kind of the audience surrogate like she, you know, the movie starts when they're going to live with Shirley and Stanley and the way that they show rose it's like how you're seeing all of this for the first time. So I thought that she did a really good job with that. I really also liked the camera work I don't know like technical terms and stuff, but there was really good framing and a lot of close ups that really made things more tense which I which I really liked. I really liked it there were times where I didn't know character motivations, but I didn't mind at all. Tessa 34:33 So I always thought when I when you mentioned they were going to do this and when I've seen this in other contexts before that this was more of a straight up Biopic, so I it says it lean more towards that or is it more horror because it almost sounds like maybe they were trying to blend what she wrote with her life as well. I don't know that much about Shirley Jackson beyond what she wrote. So I guess that's I think I think that there's a lot of Unknown Speaker 35:04 I'm not a big watcher of horror, but I do feel that this, there were times where I wasn't like scared, but I was like, very like what's on the edge of my seat? Like what's going to happen? Like I was a very tense movie, but it definitely like, in the end, I think it was over the course of a year about, but like, when you start the movie, I didn't realize I thought it was gonna be like, a few weeks. And it the whole movie was probably about a year or so. And yeah, it just, it definitely played with genres a lot. Like I wouldn't have said that. I wouldn't say that it was just like a straight up biopic or anything like that. Tessa 35:46 Well, it's interesting. I haven't seen her smell but I have seen Elisabeth moss, mosses excellent performance in both the Invisible Man, which was very good. And in her supporting role in us, which she also did a really great job in that film as well. So it almost seems like she's leaning more towards these, like, more horror, horror, eerie roles over the last few years. Yeah, I would. Unknown Speaker 36:13 I haven't seen those movies, mostly because I don't really watch that genre. But her smell is definitely it's not horror, but the first two thirds of her smell are very intense. And it was almost like not the same type of movie, but how I felt while watching 1917 where you're just like not breathing, because it's so I mean, she's mostly just on a drug bender for the whole beginning of that movie. But yeah, so I think she is drawn to these kind of roles where she just gets to, I don't know, I don't know how to explain it, but she just gets to be a little out there. Well, I Tessa 36:53 guess Handmaid's Tale also kind of dabbles with horror quite a bit. I haven't seen that show either, mainly because I don't feel like being masochistic. But that's, that's the same reason I haven't watched it. Yeah, from what I've seen, though, it also definitely dabbles in the more horror genre. So I just find that interesting as a career turn because yeah, I mean, I first encountered her and madmen, I didn't know she was in West Wing until you both mentioned it just now. So it is interesting to see how her career has sort of moved in this like, completely unexpected direction. Do you recommend this to anyone? And who would you recommend it to? Unknown Speaker 37:28 I definitely, I would recommend it to anyone who who likes her stories or her books? I would not I wouldn't be sure. Let me rephrase that. I don't know if someone who needs to know exactly what happened. And what they just watched with like it. Like the ending is very unclear. You can kind of take away from it what you want. I remember I watched it, and someone was like, oh, how, what did you think of the ending? or How did you think it ended? And I like didn't occur to me actually, that someone I took it a certain way and that someone would take it a different way which so but I can see it now. I probably will rewatch this movie. But yeah, if you're the type of person that is like, I need to know exactly what I just watched. I don't know that this would be a movie for you. Tessa 38:15 So if you're looking for a straight up Biopic, maybe skip surely. Unknown Speaker 38:19 Yeah, I would say, but also, the writing I was. Yeah, go ahead. No, I Unknown Speaker 38:26 was just talking to my mom a little bit about the movie before we recorded and I was like, you wouldn't like it's pretty much just how I how I first. Tessa 38:37 And that's fair. I feel like everyone has that like list of movies of like, my mom would not like this. Like this is not a mom movie. First. We're recording this on Father's Day. And I feel like I also have a list of movies that are like not dad movies. Like can't watch this with dad. I think my dad likes everything. It's pretty. It's pretty wild. Sam 38:56 Speaking of movies, your mom would not like, but my mom loves. What did you watch this week? Tessa 39:06 So I watch the film. Good Morning Vietnam, which is a war drama at film, which I didn't think that that was a genre film until I watched this award genre drama film war drama film directed by Barry Levinson and starring Robin Williams and Forrest Whitaker. Sam 39:27 Of course, you know, we talked about how Disney has copyrighted or I'm sorry. We've talked about how Disney has trademarked Robin Williams at the top of the podcast, I believe. The reason for that is he is the Norse god of cocaine. And of course, Forest Whitaker is saga reira. So that's that's very problematic. You know, those are two IPS that are very important to Disney. I mean, what do you think Jeannie was doing inside that bottle this whole time I don't how do you think saga reira became the guerrilla fighter that he grew up to be? I mean, these things don't just happen. And so of course, both of these personalities were fired in the crucible of Vietnam. So no, no, wait, wait. Having said all that, what in the world took you so long to watch this bill? Tessa 40:29 Okay, first of all has our headcanon gone too far that Vietnam is like now the nexus point for all of these properties? I don't question deserves to be. But I, you know, honestly, like, this was not a film. Like you said, my mom would not have liked this film. These were not films I grew up watching. I have watched several war films, because I do come from military family on both sides of my family. My both of my grandfather's were in the military. My dad was in the military, like, my uncles are in the military, it's all thing. But they were very carefully like selected and curated. And I think that also comes from like a military perspective, like Band of Brothers was like a big thing in our house. And the other thing and so for me, it's just like war movies, or dad movies, like they're just not something that I like, necessarily, I'm drawn to. And so I just didn't watch a lot of them till I was older just because I was not interested in watching these things. The other reason too, is that Vietnam has a war. It's just so politically charged. And I'm not always like ready to watch like certain takes on on Vietnam, especially like pro military ones, necessarily. And I've seen Apocalypse Now. I saw the five bloods last year, which again, deserved like to be nominated for an Oscar and Delroy lindo also deserved an Oscar for his performance. It is an amazing, amazing film. But that film has a very, very different take on the Vietnam War. Like it is doing something very specific that I hadn't seen in like other films before. So for me, like it's it was very hard for me to approach any film that was about Vietnam. And like, want to watch it like it's like Handmaid's Tale like why why would you? I, I agree that it's probably good. But why would I want to watch it? So that's kind of my reasoning about this. Again, just lots of complex feelings like my grandfather was in Vietnam. So I know a lot of that history from that, that particular perspective. So it's, it's just, it's hard for me to watch this type of film. Sam 42:35 So then, two part question, what did you think of the film? And how wrong were you? Tessa 42:41 I was like, 50%. Wrong. Like, I'm not gonna say I was totally wrong about this film, but I was like, I did enjoy it a lot more than I thought that I was going to. So this film, just very, very, this film very, very briefly. I mean, it's very easy to explain in 1965 so this film was released in 1987. So it is going back to 65. The beginning of the Vietnam conflict, as it's called at the beginning of the film, it is about airman second class, Adrian Crone our arriving in Saigon to work as a DJ for the Armed Forces Radio Service and he is joined by private there is a private Edward garlic who's played by force Whitaker, which that name is great garlic Sam 43:26 want to skew Tessa 43:28 Edward monta skew garlic. And so like, it's Robin Williams being Robin Williams like it is a very very funny film like most of his most of his rants most of his like bits on the on the Armed Forces Radio are just improv they're just Robin Williams do and Robin Williams stand up basically, just through like a radio lens. And it's very funny like Robin Williams is a hilarious person like I have always liked watching a little bit I've seen of his stand up. I love watching his films. So it's definitely something that comes across really well in this he won a Golden Globe for this particular performance. And I and he deserves it like it is quite a good film in that way. And I believe Forest Whitaker won some awards to Dotto Golden Globe but other awards for his role in this as well. It's very funny like he's very funny. I liked the war drama it like aspect of it. I always think it's good when you can sort of take two subjects, one of which is really serious and sort of make them funny, I always find that to be better than watching something that's always straight up like solemn, especially if you're trying to say something about a war. I think I think humor is a really good way of doing that. Not all the jokes land. I do think that that aspect of it works. I also learned in my research for this that this is based on a true story. Adrian Crone our was a real person who was the DJ in Vietnam, and he actually never met Robert Well, you bet what Robin Williams had After the film was completed, but he never met him before, because they were afraid that Robin Williams would start imitating him like unconsciously. So they wanted to like keep it like pretty separate. But I thought it was really funny. He actually in the 70s pitched an idea for a sitcom based on his experiences as a DJ in Saigon, but they weren't, like ready for that, because mash was really popular, and they didn't want to counter program mash. So I just think that that's really funny is that like that he had this idea for the story for a long time. And it wasn't until in the late 80s, that they decided to actually make this film. Sam 45:32 Yeah. So Adrian Crone, our is is definitely a maverick in the military. And of course, is comparable in some ways with that other Maverick from a military movie in the 80s. I am, of course, talking about Tom Cruise from Top Gun, who plays a character whose callsign is Maverick. But really, we talked earlier in this podcast about the problem with our poo, poo and supima petal on on The Simpsons. Is there a similar problem here with how Vietnamese characters or culture is portrayed? Tessa 46:09 So this is one of my worries going in? And I'm going to say yes and no, because this movie isn't quite as orientalist as I thought it was going to be I, it's not as bad as like, say Apocalypse Now. Or like another film that's like a straight up horror film that wants you to think that these people are evil, like this particular film does want to say something about, like how this war is being fought against people who really didn't want us to be there, most of them didn't want us to be there at all, and how the Americans were actually causing a lot of the problems instead of, you know, fixing them. I think that's interesting. But the problem with this film is it doesn't know how to say that because it is being told from the point of view of a military person. And it also has some really, really uncomfortable moments of fat as petoskey station of Asian women, especially, like, there's this whole scene at the beginning, where Robin Williams is like, he's just landed in Saigon. And he's like, catcalling, these like Asian women and calling them like dragon ladies. And it's just like, really, really uncomfortable. And so I will say that, that that was really bad. But there are also some friendships that he makes with some of the Vietnamese people that really complicate his view of what's going on. Because even though he like really cares about the, you know, the boys in the trenches, and he's doing this work for them, and he's like, trying to give them like quality, funny entertainment to keep them going. He also makes friends with like a local Vietnamese boy, who, you know, tries to, like kind of takes him under his wing and tries to explain, you know, like, this is what's happening in in in Vietnam right now. This is how things work. He like defends him against you know, other Americans who are pretty racist about you know, what's going on with him. And so, I this movie is trying to be nuanced, I think, at the end of the day doesn't really know how to be, which I think is part of the problem, but it is a lot less offensive than I thought it was going to be going into it. Sam 48:12 So this movie is what almost 35 years old. At this point. Should people continue to watch it? Or should they just be happy with? well know what Robin Williams movie? Would you watch that? I mean, Dead Poets Society is kind of age poorly, should you just stick to a lap? Well, even that's a problem. Hmm. Is this is this a good Robin Williams movie to watch all these years later? Tessa 48:36 I would actually say yes, I would say as long as you're going into it, knowing that it's not perfect and knowing that there's going to be some things that make you deeply uncomfortable. I think this is some of his best work balancing comedy and drama, because he is very funny in it. There are these great conflicts because the whole central conflict of the film is that his the person who runs the radio station doesn't want him to be there because they want to like play like easy listening and like, you know, like the oldies and like Perry Como and like, you know, like all of these and like be really chill and relaxed and he like wants to be Robin Williams and like, you know, make crude jokes and swear and make fun of Richard Nixon and play the Beach Boys and Bob Dylan and you know, like all the all this like rock music, you know, and it's very funny, like all of that stuff, all of the like anti you know, all of this sort of culture stuff that's going on and it is really interesting. The the clashes that he has, especially with his immediate supervisor who keeps insisting that he's funny, but he's not funny at all. is really really hilarious like Forrest Whitaker is great he's nails this like really high pitch laugh which just like cracks me up like it's it's a really great the camaraderie between the two of them. The back and forth works really well. I would say this is one of Robin Williams best performances and I'm a little shocked that when I hear his best performances being ranked, I don't actually hear this one listed very much. I mean, you hear about it, but I just it's not one that people like return to a lot, but I think he does a pretty good job with it. And they do show like, you know, some atrocities of war. And he does have to like deal with the fact that, like he is working. He's entertaining a group of people that are probably not on the right side of history on this one, which I think is a really interesting thing to say. Again, I don't know if they really pull it off. But if you're just if you're a robin williams fan, and somehow you haven't seen this movie, and you want to see him be at like the height of his hilarity, but also serious, you know, emotional gut punches. This is a good movie for you Just be aware of going into it that it's not always going to age appropriately. Have you seen it before? Okay, Unknown Speaker 50:50 I think I'm gonna watch it now that actually goes on. Watch. No, I haven't. We all pass things around. Well, you've just added things to my list. Tessa 51:03 Mission accomplished. We got one thing off your list. But one thing back on. Wait, are we actually a pop culture productivity podcast? Are we just like masochists? All right. So tune in next week, we have a special episode of rank that list coming out next week. So where can everybody find us, Elise? Where can people find you if they want to listen to you more or see you on social media? Unknown Speaker 51:28 Yes, you can find me on Twitter and letterbox at Elise underscore attendee l y s e underscore t n di and you can find my podcast, pod rates a Deep Space Nine podcast on Twitter and Instagram at pod rates pod WRAI th s and you can find us on most pod catching apps. Tessa 51:54 Oh, I was actually gonna ask you before you have listeners that are using your podcast to cross d dS nine off their list for the first time Is that Unknown Speaker 52:02 right? Yes, actually, I have a couple close friends that are watching it the first time which is wonderful. They've never seen Star Trek probably except for the JJ movies. Tessa 52:14 Perfect so you can if you are looking to cross Deep Space Nine or any Star Trek off of your list, pod rates is a great episode to check out. Alright Sam, where can people find you? Sam 52:25 Find me on twitter at Sam underscore Morris nine. Tessa 52:28 And you can find me on Twitter and letterbox at suela Tessa Swehla is spelled sw EH l. a. Send us your thoughts about the monkeys we talked about today. What pop culture you've crossed off your list lately, what you'd like for us to talk about on future episodes or anything else that comes to mind. Find us on Twitter and Instagram at monkey backlog Email us at monkey off my backlog@gmail.com our theme song Hot Shot by Scott Holmes can be found on Scott Holmes music.com please rate review and subscribe on iTunes. Follow us on Spotify, Stitcher, Amazon podcasts, Google podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Get that monkey off your back Transcribed by https://otter.ai