Sam 0:17 Welcome to monkey off my backlog the podcast where we exercise our pop culture demons by tackling our media to do this one week at a time. I'm your host, Sam Morris. The sit beret test is Roger Waters with me is Tessa. Tessa 0:31 I don't know how I feel about that comparison. Sam 0:33 Stop building that wall over there. And Andy Andy 0:37 what member of Pink Floyd? Am I am I pink? Sam 0:40 Uh no, I think you're the I think your your your our back be your our Nick Mason person who has made zero trouble for the band in the history of ever. Andy 0:50 That's right. Zero trouble that's me. Good. Oh, Andy, zero trouble Andy no problems caused by me. I never do anything to go against the status quo. Sam 1:01 This week, I'm getting my motor running, heading out on the highway, etc. Tessa isn't afraid to care. And Andy visits what I will contentiously label, the best Japanese RPG. Tessa 1:16 I was actually really, really shocked Sam that you had never seen the film easy writer. I had never seen it before. But it really seemed like something that you would have seen before. And like known everything about everything involving with it. Wasn't that film made by the same people who made the monkeys? Sam 1:35 Yes, as a matter of fact, this is the movie that Bob maples and birch Snyder made after producing the monkeys television series, making enough money to finance films and making their first film with the monkey's head, which you talked about several episodes ago. This was the next movie that raybert Productions made. Wait, isn't Andy 1:59 this a song? All my friends know the Easy Rider? Sam 2:05 I think you're singing Low Rider? Andy 2:07 No, no, no, that's a rapper from Florida. Sam 2:09 No, that's low rider. So I had never seen EZ rider. It was obviously a big, glaring hole. In my counterculture pop culture knowledge considering that 20 years ago, I was definitely immersed in counterculture. 20 years ago, 20 years removed. At that point from the counterculture. I was immersed in it. Ez rider was written by Peter Fonda directed by Dennis Hopper stars, the two of them along with jack nicholson. This really seems like a thing I should have seen. But all I really knew about it was the soundtrack. Andy 2:53 Right? Like I said, Tessa 2:55 a very young jack nicholson, I might add, it was this one of his first films because I know he directed head, but was one of this one of his first appearances as an actor. Sam 3:05 He had been around for a little bit. He received a lot of attention for this film, and it was pretty much upwards to stardom, but he was pretty established at this point. Andy, I assume you have not seen easy writer Andy 3:17 know, it's way before my time. And he's saying before 1989 is dead to me. Sam 3:23 And we're gonna circle back to that sentiment in the next segment. But do you have any idea what the film is about? Andy 3:31 It is about Hold on. I don't know much. But I do know the last frame because the venture brothers famously referenced it. Okay, Sam 3:41 I was gonna say don't mention that because I actually had no idea how the film ended. Before I saw it. I had not been spoiled. Andy 3:48 It didn't know. Wow, I'm sure I'm sure people are really really, you know, avoiding. You know, it's like the Avengers end game. You don't want to know how you see writer ends. Well, Sam 4:00 I mean, the the, the, the basis of the plot is there are two motorcyclists kind of counterculture hippie motorcycle people but not Hells Angels types, right? They are. They have just made a big drug score, right. from Phil Spector. Not Phil Spector, the record producer, but Phil Spector, the record producer playing a part. Andy 4:26 Okay, now, is this before or after he goes crazy and tries to kill the Ramones? Or is this why he does? Sam 4:33 Well, you know, you said is this before or after he goes crazy and I was gonna say definitely after, but then you said tried to kill the Ramones and I don't think that had happened yet. So a little bit of column A little bit of column B. Tessa 4:46 I do like the idea of easy writer being the origin story for Phil Spector killing the Ramones that like we're just seeing like a very brief snippet of how he came into that mindset at the beginning of this video. V. Sam 5:00 This was kind of around the time that he murdered Let it be though. Andy 5:06 Justice for Let it be the be move everybody who Sam 5:08 wasn't Andy, that joke will make sense. Now, the basic structure of the film after they make this big drug score, they travel across across the country. They're trying to get to New Orleans in time for Mardi Gras and their eventual destination which is Florida. They they pick up a young lawyer, played by jack nicholson, somewhere in Texas. And during this trip during the entire span of the film, we see America, the America that could be any America that is what about the America that Andy 5:46 was it. We actually do see that because it's from 1969, which is way before I was born. Sam 5:53 It's true. So So Andy, you'll like this. Speaking of the America that was so Peter Fonda wrote this movie, and he wrote it because he wanted to do a modern day Western. What would those characters look like in the 60s? Well, they would ride in the words of Bon Jovi on a steel horse. Pause for laughter. Andy 6:13 I don't get that reference either. Sam 6:15 It was before 1989 so there it is. Dennis Hopper's character is called Billy and Henry Fonda's character. Sorry. Peter Fonda's character is Tessa 6:25 very different from Peter Fonda. I just want to let the record show that's a Mambo fact. Sam 6:31 And by the way, Peter Fonda's daughter, Bridget Fanta, is in this film uncredited, but anyway, Peter Fonda's character is named Wyatt, but is never referred to as Wyatt. He is referred to as Captain America. Why it is he referred to as Captain America. Two reasons a, his motorcycle is festooned in American flag colors and designs. And two, he represents the best of America. Andy 7:09 Somehow I doubt this, but continue. Sam 7:12 But also, as I said, their characters are Billy and Wyatt as in Billy the Kid, and Wyatt Earp. Andy 7:19 Do you mean William the kid? Sam 7:21 I do? I do. or billion if you will. Andy 7:24 Little unfortunate for me. I prefer William. All right. All right. Tessa 7:29 So you mentioned the soundtrack, which is quite brilliant. I loved listening to this movie as we were watching it. So tell us a little bit about the soundtrack. Andy, Sam 7:39 let me see if you've heard of any of these before. Have you heard of the band Steppenwolf, or perhaps the song born to be wild? Andy 7:47 But wasn't born to be wild? used in a Madagascar film? Sam 7:53 Have you heard of the Jimi Hendrix Experience? Andy 7:57 Is that a Jimi Hendrix cover band? Sam 7:59 Right. And their famous work is if six was nine. Have you heard of the band? And their song, though? Wait, Andy 8:08 are you punking? me right now? I feel like I'm being punked Sam 8:12 Have you heard of so there's this Nobel Prize winner for literature. And though he spent his life creating great works of literature, which is why he was honored with a Nobel Prize for Literature. He made a couple of really small indie albums. I'm of course talking about Bob Dylan. Have you heard of Bob Dylan? Andy 8:33 Isn't he the evangelical singer, Sam 8:35 just so the soundtrack we're talking Steppenwolf, Jimi Hendrix Experience. The band, who was for a time Bob Dylan's band from the basement tapes. But they also had that huge song The Wait, Bob Dylan does not appear on the soundtrack. But his song It's alright, ma I'm only bleeding is performed by Roger mcquinn who is the main character in the band The birds. So this is like counterculture soundtrack 101 right here, just like a collection of classic rock hits that back in the late 60s were not classic rock hits, they were just hits. Tessa 9:17 So for those of us who were born after 1989, could you tell us more about this idea of counterculture? When you're talking about counterculture? Are you talking about things that existed in the 60s and 70s? Are you talking about a specific movement? what's what's the definition that we're working with here? Sam 9:35 In the 80s? There was a very famous TV show. Andy 9:38 Are you sure it wasn't in the 90s? I'm pretty certain this was an i 90. Sam 9:42 I'm quite sure. This show was called family ties. Most people know about it because of Michael J. Fox. Andy 9:48 I think it was horsing around but continue. Sam 9:52 So the the parents in the in the in the sitcom family ties are hippies who grew During that time in the late 60s, they protested, you know, and things like that. And the joke is their son Alex P. Keaton, played by Michael J. Fox is a raging republican like a raging Reagan Republican. And so it's it's this really into that show was on when I was growing up, and I saw most of the episodes in syndication, and then saw some of the later episodes while it was still running. But the whole premise of the show is what happens when hippies grow up. And during Reagan's time, which is before 1989, just before 1989, a lot of those hippies, the ones who are still alive, have become conservative. A few of them have stayed liberal, but it's really, really hard to move to the suburbs, own a house, raise a family and keep that hippie aesthetic, which is why Family Ties was such a good show, because they did a good job of really trying to walk that line. I'm growing up during this time period, 20 years after what the counterculture is, is that rebellion against the status quo at that time, it's anti Vietnam War, it's, you know, anti easy listening, pop music, it's anti moving out to the suburbs. It's not as much as it should have been. But it's it's anti racism. There are some ties between counterculture and civil rights. Although recently we've been exploring and some films that came out last year, especially the tension between, quote unquote counterculture, and the civil rights movement, they overlapped, but they were not the same thing. Andy 11:37 Now really, really quickly. For our listeners, you might know Michael J. Fox is the voice of Stuart Little in the Stuart liberal trilogy. Sam 11:45 Right? little little known actor. Tessa 11:47 Andy, since you were born after 1989. Did you know that Ronald Reagan, the actor was a president, Ronald Reagan. Andy 11:56 Again, not relevant to me, nothing reagan did is relevant to my life right now. Nothing he did has any impact at all on the way our country is today. Tessa 12:10 So I mean, I also think a lot of what this film is, and I want you to talk a little bit more about it here in a second, but there's also a lot of like, anti capitalism, pro sex, like there's a lot of just very much rebelling against what Andy 12:23 you can get paid for sex, like professionally. Tessa 12:26 But yeah, so there's, there's a lot of just like very anti society things in this film. So this is the prequel The Joker. So do you recommend this film? Sam 12:37 So first of all, in the I'm gonna blow your mind and say that when you see s w, as an SW deserves respect, it doesn't stand for Star Wars? Andy 12:48 No, no, it does. Because of how how much people hated the best Star Wars movie, Rogue One, SW deserves respect. Sam 12:57 You think I'm going to argue with you on this, but I'm not going to. And we'll talk more about the counterculture here in just a moment. So there's this really fun. It's not a Mumbo fact, because I'm not gonna say it here on the podcast. But it is an interesting piece of trivia about why Crosby, Stills Nash and young, we're going to be the feature of the soundtrack, but we're kicked off at one point in the process. But to go back to what Andy said about Reagan, in the 1980s. Neil Young, I'm a member of the counterculture, right is famous because of the stuff that he did with Buffalo, Springfield, and Crosby, Stills, Nash and young and on his own, wrote a whole album, about anti Reagan stuff, songs are all anti Reagan. what's ironic is Neil Young is essentially a conservative. So as these members of the counterculture grow up, they'd become increasingly more conservative, or just weird, as in the case of Dennis Hopper, and jack nicholson. Tessa 14:00 Are they die? Sam 14:02 Yeah, Andy 14:03 a thing that has nothing to do with the ending. Sam 14:06 So before we move on to the next segment, I will say I recommend this film, because it is for a couple of reasons. One, it is a good lesson in filmmaking. How can you make a film with not much of a budget with not much of a script, and not much of a clue and use real drugs and get real high and still produce an award winning and nominated film? It can be done. It was done. I'm Andy 14:40 pretty sure it was because they used real drugs and got real high. That's what the academy loves, right? They love method actors doing their thing on camera. Sam 14:49 Right? And so especially as we're looking kind of not too well, on method acting at this point for good reason. Joaquin Phoenix Dustin Hoffman? Yeah. Jared Leto. Oh God, aren't you gonna watch my so called Life soon for monkey? Hey, anyway, so that's a good reason and to if you're interested more in the counterculture, this is one of those really good artifacts and I shouldn't have. I didn't sleep on it. I was awake the whole time. I just chose not to. Don't wait. Watch this film. So, Andy, I'm going to start with you. I'm going to pose you this question. So we are putting the clear line at 1989. Because you're on record several times in this very episode that nothing matters before. 1989. No, no, no, Andy 15:39 I was born in 1990. So nothing before 1989 matters, because I assume that some of my cells did exist in 99. Okay, Sam 15:49 but I imagine, I'm just gonna take a guess here. I imagined that throughout your life, which occurred from 1990. And after that, during those years, somebody somebodies indeed, had told you that they are essential things that you should see, watch, listen to, that were created. During that time where nothing matters to you. Would you agree with that? Andy 16:18 You know what, I do agree with that. The problem is that when people start telling me that something's happened before 1989, what ends up happening is, it's like, I'm watching that old movie. Why Charlie Brown? Why from March 16 1990. And all the adults are going Womp womp? Womp? Womp? womp, womp? Womp? It's like, I don't I don't understand. What do you mean this Back to the Future thing? I don't get it. What What is that? I don't care about that. Is it from before I was born? Oh, it has no effect on me. Sam 16:51 So this happened a long time ago, many many years ago. But I was shocked. And I'm still shocked whenever I think about it. So my dad just turned 75 last month, he hates black and white movies. Very much like you not not quite as a servic as you will say, but my dad does not have any interest in things that that came out before he was born. And and for probably most of his child. It is well, but surely there are some things from before your time that people have insisted that are essential. Andy 17:25 Yes, all the time. It's so give us a few. You gotta watch network man. Network is one of the best films ever. What No, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna watch network. I'm mad as hell that you keep mentioning network and I'm not gonna take it anymore. Sam 17:41 Nice. Andy 17:42 Oh, God. Oh, Alfred Hitchcock is so smart and clever. You know who's smart and clever. Roland Emmerich? Sam 17:50 I don't think I can let you have that one. All right. So your your baton 500 on this. Give me something else. Andy 17:55 Let's go with Orson Welles. You know what, Orson Welles your last thing that you did was, was the voice of something in a thing called Transformers? I don't know anything about Transformers? I only know Beast Wars. We're gonna we're gonna keep going on here. Oh, you need to read the prince. The prince is so good. I don't need to read the prince. I can just watch the adaptation of of the prince. which I believe is called cheaper by the dozen with Steve Martin. you need you need to sit and you need to sit and watch. Turner and hooch Turner and hooch the movie from 1986 Well, you know what? Disney plus just solved that problem for me. It's no longer relevant. Newer is always better. Okay. Oh, this thing called Star Wars. Yeah, I saw Star Wars. I saw the pod racing. It was really cool. Thanks. I don't need to know anything more about it. I know how it ends. Okay. I, all I know is at some point, the main character goes off kills a bunch of kids and then all of a sudden we're at his grandparent, we're at his grandchildren story. It's great. I don't need to know anything else about Star Wars beyond that. Hope ya know. In our in our seriousness, now I'll get to this. Yeah, there are tons of things that keep being told that I need to watch one of them is actually Casa Blanca. Casa Blanca is supposedly one of the greatest movies of all time, and I do want to watch it. I like like, I want to. I crave that. I just haven't. Pretty much any of Bruce Lee's filmography. I want to watch it. I really genuinely do. Tessa, Sam 19:33 same question. Tessa 19:34 Well, so I approach this with two different things because there's obviously a lot of stuff. I was also born in 1990. So there's obviously a lot of stuff that exists pre 1990 that I just have never gotten around to and I think there's a couple of things. I mean, don't get me wrong. I i unlike Andy do care about stuff that came out before 1989 I love old movies. I love older music and everything like that, including what I'm going to talk about today later. I think there are two real barriers to watching things that came out before you were born. One of them is, you're not always going to connect with something that exists within a specific moment of time, especially if you don't have nostalgia for it like certain other people do. So like when we watched EZ writer, you really connected with this movie, because you recognize the types of counterculture that you were used to experiencing when you were a child, even though it also came out before you were born. I liked the movie a lot, but I didn't connect with it as emotionally as you did, mainly because I wasn't raised in those types of counterculture discussions. So we're going to talk more about that here in a minute. So there are certain things that I think come out in certain times in certain moments in history that have certain nostalgic things attached to them that you can't always get back. If you were born later. You can appreciate them for what they are for the art that they are, but you're not going to necessarily emotionally connect with them in the same way. The second thing that I think really stops you from always appreciating or always getting to actually I think this is a barrier that happens. Like you said, like with Casa Blanca, something that you actually really want to see and that you do see as being essential, but you still haven't watched it yet is that sometimes it's actually hard to remember things that that came out before you were born. Like, I know that sounds really like self aggrandizement, or selfish or something. Andy 21:34 narcissistic, Tessa, narcissistic, I am a narcissist. Tessa 21:38 But I know it is actually true. Like when you're thinking about, oh, what should I watch tonight, a lot of times, you're going to think about things that either came out recently, or you're going to think about things that came out in your lifetime, just because you have more memories of seeing them advertised, or people talking about them, or what have you, then you are to think about something that you said, Oh, I do want to see that. But you just don't have it as firmly in your head as the things that came out during your lifetime. So those are really what I see is like kind of the two barriers for getting things off of your list if they came out before you were born. Sam 22:11 Okay, so that's a really good point. It's it's hard to know what you don't know. And of course, that's the first step to, to true knowledge. Right is admitting that you don't know what you don't know. Look, Socrates over here. So but but but Tessa, what, what is, what is your Casablanca? Tessa 22:29 I thought you were gonna ask what what was something someone had asked me to watch that I didn't want to watch or read that I didn't want to read? And it was definitely, definitely Infinite Jest. But I do have no desire to read that. Let me think Andy 22:42 another thing to bring up though, is because you're missing context, I grew up knowing that war is hell, knowing, you know, watching war films that show war as hell. And then I watched the Dirty Dozen, where war is all due to do to do having fun doing all these things that are really cool and murdering all these Nazis and to a like, poppin soundtrack. And it's it's realizing that there was a change around the deer hunter, in, in Vietnam in in Hollywood, where they're like, oh, we're going to show the reality of what war does to these characters, and stop kind of propagandizing war in a certain way. And it can be really jarring to kind of go from the deer hunter. To the Dirty Dozen. Tessa 23:31 That's true. I just thought of the one that that is. That is my Casa Blanca. It's actually the television show The prisoner from the 60s. I thought a lot about watching that show. I know it's really good. I'm excited to watch it. What about you? What are what is your Casa Blanca? Sam? Sam 23:47 Would you be terribly surprised if I told you it was music related? Tessa 23:52 I'm shocked, shocked that mean that their musical is going on in here. Andy 23:58 I know that I know. This one. I know this wouldn't pick me. I gotta get a good guess. Is it the entire take five album by Dave Brubeck? Sam 24:06 No. Oh, so I grew up on oldies radio. So my dad played in the car. So if it's a if it's a top 40 from the 60s, I've heard it. I've picked up almost everything that's come afterward. But the biggest hole in my music knowledge is late 60s, early 70s, r&b and soul. I'm not proud to admit it. If it was a hit from Motown. I've heard it but I haven't done the kind of deep dives or even deep dives on that, that I've done with most other times and genres. It's just it's just a blind spot. It's an unfortunate blind spot. But the thing about blind spots is that we can rectify them at any time. So, in a couple of weeks, Andy will be talking about Casablanca. Tessa will be talking about the prisoner. And I will be talking about some of the seminal albums from Marvin Gaye and Otis Redding. So as, as I throw it to Tessa to talk about dark side of the moon, the last thing I'll say, is that, as you guys were talking about, I think the internet is a big culprit of some of what you're describing. If you only have the brain space for so many pieces of pop culture, there are that many pieces of pop culture that were produced this week, when I was growing up, there wasn't access to much, you know, so you it was easier to go back. So that stuff from the counterculture, which again, was only 20 years ago, it's kind of like talking about not even talking about the 90s hardly anymore, because it's like, it's like talking about the early 2000s. And why would you. But that's, that's kind of where we are now. That's where I was back when I first started to know about the counterculture. So I think it matters a lot less just because it's less present. And because there's a lot more now that can occupy our attention. And I'm not ragging on the internet, saying it's a bad thing. I think it's a great thing, that we have so much stuff that the internet has flattened a lot of popular culture so we have access to it. But we do tend to discount stuff that came before a little bit. So that said, Tessa, you had an experience. Andy 26:36 So hold on a second, she's never listened to our side of the moon. But I know for a fact that what Tesla did this week was she hitched a ride on Jeff Bezos, his spaceship, and flew all the way to the dark side of the moon, reenacting scenes from Apollo 13, Ron Howard's Apollo 13. And going around to the dark side of moon. fascinating stuff, Tessa, how was your journey? Tessa 26:57 You know, and Andy, I'd like to point out that Andy knows about this because while I was reenacting scenes from Apollo 13, he was actually on the other end of the radio, doing the stuff with the duct tape figuring out how I could stay alive. It was really it brought us closer together. I was Andy 27:11 and I didn't even know where she was. That was the craziest part, doing this by myself. Tessa 27:16 So yeah, I watched I watched Yeah, I listened to the eighth studio album by English prog rock band, Pink Floyd, the dark side of the moon. So I actually listened to it this morning, while just like laying on my couch. So it was a very chill experience. It was raining a little bit outside, it was just like, without actually taking it, there were frogs that were kind of chirping in the background. And I couldn't tell if it was part of the album or not. This album was released in 1973. So again, before 1989, so Annie doesn't care about it. But it is such a iconic album, that something really funny happened to me the other week, when I realized I had never actually sat down and listened to this album all the way through before, I had heard a lot of Pink Floyd songs. And I had heard songs from this album before, specifically the singles time and money. But I had never actually sat down and listened to it as an album. And I hadn't ever actually realized that because the iconography of this album is so ubiquitous, and like the jokes about it are so like part embedded in like the pop culture consciousness that I had never actually just sat down and realized, Oh, yeah, I've never actually listened to this album before. So it was just kind of an odd realization. So I've heard Pink Floyd here and there, but I really grew up, you know, after 1990, I'm a millennial. I grew up not listening to albums. I got my songs off of iTunes originally. And then, you know, I started I was an early subscriber to streaming services, like Spotify. And so, you know, I'm definitely more of a buffet type of listener. And it's only within the last couple of years, being with Sam, who is a avid album listener, that I've actually really started to appreciate the album as a work of art as something that artists put together intentionally, and to listen to more music that way. And so I was very excited because this album has been touted as one of the greatest concept albums of all time. And so I, like I said, just sat down and listened to all 43 minutes of it. Andy 29:22 So 43 minutes is shorter than the runtime of the Wizard of Oz. Now, the Wizard of the oz and dark side of the moon are supposed to sync up. This doesn't make any sense to me. Explain yourself, Tessa, how does the Wizard of Oz sync up to dark side of the moon perfectly? And how was the experience on multiple forms of LSD and I believe horse math. Sam 29:47 So Tessa wants me to feel this, at least the first part of that answer, Andy, I have done the thing where you sync up dark side of the moon in The Wizard of Oz, and then what state Andy 29:57 of sobriety? Sam 29:59 Yes, but I need you to know that it works. So like the great gig in this guy is during the tornado scene. And when the scenes which is the color is like, to the second, when the the sound effects and money start happening, like it works, it works, it works that works. Now, if you put dark side of the moon on repeat, it really is only synced up with that first playthrough. But it actually does decently well if you just let it go repeat for the whole movie. So that's the real answer to your question, but I'll turn it back over to Tessa. Andy 30:34 I do I do have a story about this album because I actually have listened to this album. It was one of the few albums I purchased with a Best Buy gift card. When I was like 14, and I was riding my bike, you were saying Oh, she's 14. No, no, no, I really was not. I was just told by my friend who recommended Green Day for me the best band in the world that this was like another wonderful album. Anyway. Tessa 31:02 You know, that's not that's not as surprising of a statement as I thought you were gonna say, like, I can see it, I can see the connections there. Andy 31:11 The story is that I was riding my bike and listening to my Sony Discman. But it wasn't a Sony disc man. It was like a $10 Best Buy battery powered disc thing with my dollar store earphones because I only listened to I listen to the best, the best fidelity and I was riding my bike. And time came on. And he got quiet and I never really like heard time before. So So yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I turn up the volume. I keep going. And ultimately people listen to this song. No sound comes on very, very quickly. All of a sudden, and it scared the out of me. And I fell over and scraped my knee and I will never forget that that's what this album did to me. Okay, never Tessa 32:11 forgive Roger wah. For scraping your D. Andy 32:16 Roger said Barrett any other one who had anything to do with pink that record producer who refers to them as Which one of you is pink and have another cigar? I don't care all of them. You're all dead to me. Animals dead to me. Other the wall? No, no, no, I will take that wall apart brick by brick. Tessa 32:37 So I have never done the Wizard of Oz thing. Although again, it's such a part of like pop culture consciousness that I've known about it for a long time. In fact, one of my favorite jokes about it happens in How I Met Your Mother when Ted jokes about doing the same thing but with his The Greatest Hits of Weird Al Yankovic, which he watches with Apocalypse Now and apparently Marlon Brando shows up just at the at the point when eat it comes on and it's just a very funny joke. Andy 33:07 what's what's really funny though, is that Dave Brubeck take five does match up perfectly with A Nightmare on Elm Street. Little known fact. Sam 33:15 Stop trying to make Dave Brubeck happen. Tessa 33:19 Are you ready for me to talk about the album? Andy 33:22 Yeah, you know the actual thing that people come here listen, not not to hear us bicker not to hear me distract both of you from the actual point of the conversation. No, how was the album? How is the album The Dark Side of the Moon by Pink Floyd. The thing that's on tons of science teacher walls in elementary school because it shows the the prism of light reflecting. And it looks cool. And it's Yeah, yeah, yeah, Tessa 33:49 they wanted to show that they could get down with the youths that prism our album cover, which is obviously beautiful, but dark side of the moon is like I said, it's a prog rock experimental album and I wasn't sure how much of it I was going to like because prog rock is not really my thing. Sometimes they think they lean a little bit too far into the noise aspect of it. Which if you like that great, it's just not my cup of tea. Andy 34:15 Yeah, I don't like that either. I especially don't like loud noises that come out of nowhere. Tessa 34:19 Yeah, and he's a little jumpy about this album. It scarred him but I I really enjoyed this album a lot and I think it's because it is at very early prog rock and it is this balance between classic rock he has some of the best guitar solos I've heard in a long time David Gilmore did the some really solid guitar work but then layered over it is are these sort of found in I don't want to say found in nature but found you know, around sounds so like time starts with like you said that the timing of the clocks, money has like sounds of a cash register. There are all sorts of things that are being sort of sampled and layered over the over the music here. And it creates this really interesting vibe, which I was gonna mention when you talked about easy writer, the easy writer is really a movie that is a vibe. This is an album that is a vibe, it is a continuous piece of music, it is made for you to listen all the way through in one sitting. In fact, when they first performed it before the album came out, they performed it all in one sitting. And I find that fascinating. Even the songs I had heard before, like time and money actually play completely differently. When you listen to the album as a whole. They sound completely different. There's a lot more instrumentation going on. And I just I found that to be fascinating. So dark side of the moon is really a concept album, which I know people sort of make fun of the idea of the concept album. Although we've seen a resurgence of it in the last few years, Olivia rodrygo obviously came out with a great concept album, about a single breakup to now Monet is the queen of the concept album. This is a concept album about madness. The original title was dark side of the moon a piece for assorted lunatics, and of course that they they Andy 36:05 believe it's lunatics. Tessa 36:07 So they repeat that later on. When it comes to the end of the album, the crescendo of the album, as it were in the song brain damage. And then the Kota Eclipse, where they talk a lot, they kind of make this whole dark side of the moon lunatic parallel together, because obviously the word lunatic Luna comes from the moon, the idea was the moon can drive you mad. And so this album is really about things in society that have the ability to drive you crazy if you think about them long enough. And this was a very personal album in a lot of ways, which I'll let Sam explain as as he explained it to me earlier. Sam 36:44 And by the way, when we talk about prog rock, that's another hole, but I'm not going to fix that hole. In my I just don't, although we are going to watch the sparks documentary, we're looking forward to that. So as I as I told Tessa, this album is one that can be seen as a tribute to original lead singer Syd Barrett, who was around was a founding member around for one album, and then one song on the second album, and then could not continue with the band because of his own mental illnesses. And so, you know, writing an album and devoting it to this issue of mental illness is definitely a tip of the hat to you know, what they processed, you know, and losing said, Barrett, wish you were here. Also, another album is about loss about losing Syd Barrett, and I believe it's Wish you were here, the sessions for that, where he wandered into the studio one day and was just like, sounds good. But yeah, so I mean, this also has that personal connection that you described. Andy 37:43 And Sid bear is actually one of the one one of the singers who, like big or big music people that I knew who died in my lifetime, he died on July 7 2006. And I will never forget that because it was my 16th birthday. It's a very, very strange feeling that was like one of the first like, feelings of Oh, this thing that I actually kind of like the person who had something to do with it died. Tessa 38:10 Yeah. And I think that this album is very much that feeling in some ways, because even though he hadn't died, yet, there is a real sense of loss in this album, and there's a real sense of the things they talk about that can drive you insane, are very mundane, just day to day things. They talk about, like in time, the idea of time being this concept that's actually really perceptual. And when you're young, you don't realize how tight quickly time is passing by. And then when you're old, you suddenly realize that you've been left behind the lyric, no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun. And of course, also, there's the great line hanging on and quiet desperation is the English way, which I'm not English, but I just found that to be really interesting. Andy 38:54 I believe colonialism is the English way Tessa 38:56 is the English way. And then in money, they say, you know, they have the lyric money, so they say is the root of all evil today, but if you ask for a raise, it's no surprise, they're getting none away. So they're talking about like these different aspects of society that are like part of the day to day life. But ultimately, if you think about them too hard, everything starts to become more surreal us and that is clearly anti war, it's about Vietnam. There's always these conversations under the music. And then of course, like I mentioned in brain damage and Eclipse there, it really sums up this idea that you know, the lunatic who in this case is Syd Barrett, you know, sort of stands as this representative of the ways in which society has you know, driven people to insanity but then also how insane people present this challenge for society. So you rate rearrange me until I'm saying you lock the door and throw away the key. There's someone in my head, but it's not me, which is just such a great, great lyric. I also really loved the first song breathe in the air, which has the lyric Don't be afraid to care, which I think is that one really struck me Because I feel like in where we are right now, you know, with the pandemic and with like all of these, you know, the way that humans have recently shown us some of their worst colors, it's is really hard to care. And I feel like that that line especially Don't be afraid to care, it has a lot more poignancy now than maybe would have done if I'd listened to this, you know, a few years ago. But yeah, it is basically just 10 songs. 43 minutes, you can definitely sit down and listen to it in a listen, I hesitate to make this connection because I don't want to fool you into what kind of music it is. It's not pop, it is definitely solidly in the rock genre. But the way that they sort of layer the sound together really reminded me of Billy Eilish, his first album and the way that she takes different sounds and sort of layers it together into into a song. Again, it's not the same kind of music at all. But if you're really interested in listening to something that is experimental, but still very enjoyable, as a whole, this album is really a vibe, and not to be too cute about it, considering the iconic cover art, but I would really describe that vibe as prismatic. It's very dreamy. It's very focused on one thing, but it creates this sort of atmosphere of exploring madness of exploring sound of exploring a sort of a twisted view of society or perhaps an unrealistic view of society, depending on how you look at it. Andy, Sam 41:29 now that we've talked about stuff from the 60s for a while, you'll be relieved to to get out of the past and into the present. Oh, hold on. Okay, so a few weeks ago, you did Final Fantasy 15. And now you're doing Final Fantasy three. Andy 41:49 That is correct. Sam 41:51 What's wrong with you? Andy 41:52 What, what do you mean? Three comes before? Sam 41:56 15? Yes. So there's like 11 numbers between three and 15? Andy 42:03 Uh huh. I, I don't get what the problem is, Sam. Sam 42:07 If you have played Final Fantasy 15 there's a social contract. That society that specifies that you have played Final Fantasy is one 314. And so the only logical Final Fantasy to play after 15 is Final Fantasy 16. And possibly Mystic Quest. Andy 42:31 Mr. quest is on my list. But no, I did Final Fantasy. I did that one. I did. I did that number. I don't care about your, your rules. Sam 42:43 Alright, fine. So you played Final Fantasy three. And I played Final Fantasy three. But as I'm guessing the Final Fantasy three that I played is not the final fantasy three that you played. Okay, so Andy 42:57 the Final Fantasy three I played, which is by the way, it's called Final Fantasy three, but is known as Final Fantasy six in Japan. Is is the one I played. So that that is that is the case I played Final Fantasy three for the Super Nintendo, which is a part of Final Fantasy six for the superfan. makaan in Japan. Sam 43:17 Fine. Tell us what it's about. Andy 43:20 Okay, so Final Fantasy three, known as Final Fantasy six in Japan is the final Final Fantasy. Before that go went from 2d to 3d. Strangely enough, Final Fantasy three known as Final Fantasy six in Japan was for the Super Nintendo. And Final Fantasy seven was the next release for the PlayStation, in in America and all around the world. But we did declare that Final Fantasy three known as Final Fantasy six in Japan would be called Final Fantasy three in in America, because the amount of time it takes to translate and adjust games, from Japanese to English is quite large. So the way it actually went is we got Final Fantasy one, which is Japan's Final Fantasy one. We did not get Final Fantasy two, or Final Fantasy three. What we got was Final Fantasy four. But because there was a bit of an issue there, there was an issue just saying hey, you know, Final Fantasy four, we're afraid to take the risk and and you know, kids won't play it they'll be looking for two and three, and two and three don't exist. So what they did is called it Final Fantasy two. So it's Final Fantasy two known as Final Fantasy four in Japan. They then skipped Final Fantasy five again, and went to Final Fantasy six. And that's how we have Final Fantasy three known as Final Fantasy six in Japan. Now Final Fantasy three known as Final Fantasy six in Japan is considered by many people to be the best Final Fantasy. There are plenty of people who will argue that to Final Fantasy seven Which is known as Final Fantasy seven in Japan is the better Final Fantasy. I will argue that Final Fantasy three known as Final Fantasy six in Japan is actually one of the greatest RPGs of all time. Sam 45:14 After hearing what you said, I will say that Final Fantasy three known as Final Fantasy six and Japan is the final Final Fantasy that I had played prior to starting Final Fantasy seven for this very podcast. But it's been a long, long time. I believe you said that game came out in 94. Andy 45:32 I did not say when the game came out, but I'm sure it did come out in 9495. I don't know. Anyway, Final Fantasy three known as Final Fantasy six in Japan is a it's a deconstruction of the typical swords and sorcery that you might find in the final fantasy genre. In the Japanese RPG in general. It is about a world that had a real destructive relationship with magic, then magic was forgotten. And technology came and technology was stronger than magic. And now magic is coming back into this world and you play as Tara and Locke and a bunch of other characters as you go and try to defeat basically old Mecca Hitler old Hitler in charge of a bunch of mechs it's it's it's an emperor His name is Emperor Gestalt. He is he is the bad guy he is going around and and taking over towns to get more power because you know, that's that's what Emperor's do when you call yourself an emperor, chances are you're probably going to end up being a bit of a imperialist in some ways, and you're going to be a bit of a tyrant. So that is the start of Final Fantasy three known as Final Fantasy six in Japan you play is Tara, who is a magic user who was brainwashed and being controlled by the Emperor, the entire Empire and she breaks free and defines a ragtag group of rebels and they go from there. Sam 47:04 So, quick question, Who is your favorite character and why is it sit? Andy 47:09 It actually isn't said said said was kind of cool. But my favorite character is Edgar. Edgar is the king of a country and he is suave and quite funny. He is tries to flirt with women fails spectacularly. It is quite wonderful to watch him plus his special ability as all characters and this JRPG which stands for Japanese RPG. Sam 47:39 What What does RPG stands for? Andy 47:41 That stands for real pretty game. Sam 47:45 Oh, I thought it was rocket propelled grenade. Andy 47:48 No, no, that would be for the Metal Gear Solid franchise or Rocket League that would make that game very different. Very, very different. So Edgar's special abilities. One of the earliest characters you get is to use tools because I like using tools and it's it's great and he has a an attack that hits all all opponents for a lot of damage. So I really like Edgar's. This game is more than just its story, which by the way, is very, very good. It does have one of the best villains, the most fun villains ever in video games, which is hard to describe. This villains name is Kefka. And he is a clown. And I don't mean Oh, he's kind of funny. No, he is a clown. He is the Emperor's number two, and he is hilarious. He's dressed like a clown. He's scary like a clown. In fact, I would say almost say that he's like Mark Hamill Joker. Sam 48:52 Oh, you that Tessa interested. Now you know that I played Final Fantasy seven last year. And it was I enjoyed it, but it was difficult to stick with. There are as we have discussed many, many more Final Fantasies, including seven and 15. Is there any reason to go back and play this one? Andy 49:10 Final Fantasy three, known as Final Fantasy six in Japan is regarded by many fans to be the best for a reason. And that reason is, there's so much innovation in this game. The systems are so much more complex than any other Japanese role playing game at the time. It is just insane. To see how video game storytelling went from before whatever it was before this to what it is now today. After that there are multiple scenes in this game that just have enchanted me and these are all with 2d sprites in the weirdest possible way. There's a there's a scene in an opera house where you jump between multiple characters to get their points of views and perspectives of what's going on. As a Another character has to pretend to be able to act. And you have to actually memorize the lines that the character has to say. So you can say them on cue and move the character appropriately. All in an attempt to pretend to be this big opera, this big famous opera starlet, who is about to be kidnapped by a suave, dashing, gambling airship captain. A very, very much in the style of that one character from Princess Bride, which again, is a movie I didn't watch because I didn't care about it. But I'm sure it's kind of like the Dread Pirate Roberts. There are layers to this game and layers in its enjoyability. For one thing Kefka is by far the most memorable villain in a Final Fantasy and I have played the following Final Fantasies I have played Final Fantasy one known as Final Fantasy. In Japan, I have played Final Fantasy two known as Final Fantasy four in Japan, I have played Final Fantasy two known as Final Fantasy two in Japan, I have played Final Fantasy seven, known as Final Fantasy seven in Japan, I have played Final Fantasy eight known as Final Fantasy eight in Japan, I have played Final Fantasy 10, also known as Final Fantasy X in Japan, I have played Final Fantasy 15 I have played tend to I have played a lot of Final Fantasies and Kefka is by far one of the best villains. And here's the extra little that I really enjoy about Kefka. Being about this Mark Hamill thing being the best villain, it was all in the English translation. They in the original Japanese Final Fantasy six, he's plays it completely straight. He is just a villainous clown in the English translation Kefka has been transformed into Mark handles Joker, he makes jokes before doing horrifying things to kill many, many people. It this game is also incredibly clever with both puns, and its willingness to be kind of wacky and kind of funny. At the same time. There is a recurring boss character who is an octopus, his name is altroz. And altroz follows you around and keeps getting into fights with you. And he's just an annoying thing that the characters can brush off because he's not serious. Well, at one point, altos gets the upper hand, and you have a little girl named realm, join your party, and realm has the ability. She's a 10 year old girl. And her ability is drawing sketches of things. And when altroz gets the whole party cornered realm comes out of nowhere, and it's like you, I want to draw you. And Ultros is like, I'm not gonna let a kid draw me. And the whole party goes, dude, what the heck, if a 10 year old girl says she wants to draw you let her draw you. Yeah. And he's like, what? No, no, I'm not gonna do that. And then ROM starts crying. And then ultra says like, Oh, no, oh, tell uncle old T, what do you want to do? And she's like, I just want to draw you. And this is the introduction to her ability, where she draws him. And that painting immediately comes to life and smacks altroz off the stage, it is willing to be this incredibly goofy and funny game. At the same time as it's this serious story of, of human loneliness and, and heartbreak and death and dealing with death and just astounds me how good this game is a multiple points the game to you break up and play as just different characters who, who are on their own, you get separated by from your party. So you have to go at it alone. And then you finish their scenario and you jump to a different scenario, which covers what this character did in the same timeframe. And they all bounce back and forth. There are moments in this game where you think to yourself, oh, hmm, you know, Edgar is king, I'm gonna go to the castle as him and try to buy stuff. And you know, you buy stuff, the item shop. And when you talk to the item owner, he says, I can't charge the king money. And Edgar responds, you have a family, I'm going to pay for this. But all the prices are still haft, right, you get a discount just for thinking, Oh, how would this person reacted the king was trying to buy stuff from there are so many instances like that, where you think like, Oh, I wonder if I can do this. And then it happens. There. There's multiple ways to get out of entire boss fights. By understanding who you're fighting and being like, this person is afraid of snakes. I'm going to summon a snake. And then all of a sudden, the boss fight ends in one turn. Because you actually understood this that this game is in Same in its depth in its storytelling. I loved it. The music is wonderful. It has one of the best West's in a game ever. And I won't spoil that for you if you've somehow managed to go 25 plus years without this amazing story twist. You know, this is better than the famous twist in Final Fantasy seven known as Final Fantasy seven in Japan. Absolutely. Play it. Also, by the way, Final Fantasy seven is known as Final Fantasy VII in Rome. Tessa 55:33 I do have a hard hitting question for you, Andy. Okay, at what point do they have they put out enough Final Fantasies to where they realize it's no longer a final fantasy. Andy 55:43 So I will go ahead and tell you the history of the Final Fantasy franchise. And by history, the Final Fantasy franchise, I mean, why it's called the final fantasy. You see, when square software came up with the idea for the game, Final Fantasy, they only had the money for one more game, this was going to be the last game that square software could have made. And as it turns out, it was a huge hit. So it was no longer the Final Fantasy, just just a nice little factoid here. But they they have said before that they are going all the way to Final Fantasy infinite because capitalism demands it. And I'm sure we're gonna get Final Fantasy infinite plus one. Sam 56:22 So today, Andy, you talked about a rich, complex game that exists on a 512 kilobyte game cartridge. Tessa talked about an album that existed on a single vinyl. And I talked about a movie shot by hippies on film. So these old forms of media are still worth going back to and revisiting. But as far as next week goes, Tessa, what's it? what's what's in store? Tessa 56:51 So next week, please tune in when I and two of my very, very good friends who have been guests on this podcast, Elise and Megan are going to talk about romance novels do all ask for it on Twitter. We're going to do a whole episode based on it. So stay tuned for that. Andy 57:08 Now are these Harlequin romance novels? Are these Christian romance novels? Are these the dollar store trash bin romance novels? Are these damiel steel novels? Are these going to be something else entirely? Tell me Tessa, what are you covering? Tessa 57:20 Don't sleep on Danielle Steele she like writes like five books a year like that. That lady has been going for a long time. You'll have to tune in. We're going to talk about all sorts of romance novels next week. Sam 57:30 We've got lots of good stuff coming up in the next few weeks. We're also going to have the hoisted on your own petard episode where we talk about some of those things we mentioned in segment two today. We've got an episode coming up where Andy tells us what to do what to watch. They're so stupid. They let me do it. We've also got a multi episode spectacular. That'll help us get ready. Finally, maybe there will finally be time for James Bond and no time to die. And Tessa, if I'm not mistaken, that's going to bring us all the way up to another special event. What's that called? spook tober. So all that's coming up in the next few weeks. In the meantime, Andy, where can we find you online? Andy 58:27 You can find me online on twitter at Andy noted Sam 58:31 tassa. Tessa 58:32 You can find me on Twitter and letterboxed at suela Tessa, Andy 58:37 how do you spell suela Tessa 58:38 suela is spelled SW e HLA. Sam 58:42 Find me on twitter at Sam underscore Morris nine Find us on Twitter at monkey backlog Email us at monkey off my backlog@gmail.com Let us know your thoughts about what we talked about today. Anything you'd like to see us talk about on future episodes and anything else pop culture related? Our theme song is hot shot by Scott Holmes that can be found on Scott Holmes music.com please rate review and subscribe on iTunes. Follow us on Spotify, Stitcher, Amazon podcast, Google podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. Get that monkey off your back Transcribed by https://otter.ai