Sam 0:00 Before we begin this episode, a dramatic reading from the television show community. I will be playing Britta and Andy will play Jeff shouldn't have worn that petard if you didn't want to be hoisted by it. Andy 0:12 What do you think the expression hoisted by your own petard means? Sam 0:19 I guess I just assumed that in the old days a petard was a special outfit like a leotard with a lot of fancy buckles and loops on it, and that rich people would wear it when they were feeling especially smug. But then poor people could tie a rope to one of the loops and hoist them up a pole and then let them dangle there as punishment for being cocky. Andy 0:36 Never look it up. Your explanation is way better. Sam 0:58 Welcome to monkey off my backlog. The podcast where we exercise our pop culture demons by tackling our media to do list one week at a time. I'm your host, Sam, the resident Britta and with me are my co hosts the Annie to my Britta Tessa. Hello, and the Leonard to our two persons study group Andy, Andy 1:18 veteran of the Vietnam War Vietnam side. Sam 1:23 Today, I am making Tessa and Andy regret they ever admitted to not having seen great works of pop culture by making them enjoy great works of pop culture. That's right everybody. As usual. The patar oyster and the petard? wasty are both me. Let's start with Andy's adventure in Casa Blanca. Yes, let's all right for the two people listening who don't know what Casa Blanca is actually about? Tell pardon the other person what it's about. Andy 1:58 Okay. Let's go ahead and talk about what Casa Blanca is about. So this guy, this main character, the same the same one for a treasure of the Sierra, whatever. He owns a bar and it's a bar in Casa Blanca, which is apparently a town somewhere in Morocco. It is a bar and casino. And he Okay, so one day this Tweety Bird looking shows up. And it's like, hey, I need you to hold these documents for me. And then Tweety gets arrested dragged out and the documents are apparently very important. People are looking for them. And all of a sudden his old main characters old flame shows up old old woman but she shows up with with her new husband. Who's this real smooth talking cat. Then a German General shows up with a real like, Yo, 70 sam type person. And girl tries to arrest her husband for things like writing anti German propaganda. And yeah, yeah, yeah. So So this was a weird. This is a weird, weird movie to be watching. That took that was filmed before the war, but also during the war. Sam 3:31 You know, the way you describe this movie, if you took out the German part, and the reference to a city in Morocco, and I guess the war thing you said at the end, but if you take that out, I think he just described a potential episode of Atlanta. Andy 3:47 Mm hmm. Sam 3:48 It's It's weird like that. You just described a plot that would work in a lot of different scenarios and a lot of different genres a lot of different places. It's It's interesting. Unknown Speaker 3:59 I've never heard Peter Lorre described as Tweety Bird. looks exactly Andy 4:04 like Tweety Bird. Tessa 4:08 I really don't think so. Peter Lorre haunts my nightmares. Sam 4:12 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Does Tweety Bird hunt your nightmares? Yes. So so you so so you wake up. You wake up to the sound echoing in your ears of Tweety Bird saying I taught I taught a gun. I shoot you with it. Something like that. Right? With a German accent. Andy 4:40 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but what let's let's go with that. Let's go with that. Sam 4:47 All right. Tweety Bird is nightmare fuel for Andy. Moving on. standout scenes. Alright, Andy 4:55 so so there was one scene that was really really, really weird in this and it's When the main character goes to goes to the police department after his, you know, the the smooth talking cat dude is getting arrested and kind of processed and will probably be executed by the Yosemite Sam dude. And the main the main character goes up to is like, hey, that's not how you do an interrogation. This is how you do an interrogation. And then he sits through somebody Sam down in the chair. And all of a sudden the main character is wearing a little children's outfit with a giant lollipop. And he says, It's him. It's him. It's the man who took the giant lol You took my candy away, and then hits him with a lollipop and then the main character switches to a woman's dress with an anvil. That looks like a purse is like he did the he did the thing and hits Yosemite Sam again in Yosemite Sam has to run into the jail. Yeah, yeah, this was a weird movie. Sam 5:57 So here's the thing. I know what's happening here. I took me a little longer, but I remembered the thing. But I'll play your game back. So nothing seems off here. It kind of sounds like you're talking about the Looney Tunes. And not the folks who actually starred in the film, the feature length film that is often regarded as the best film ever made. Andy 6:29 Right? carrot? carrots Blanca. Sam 6:32 Ah ha ha ha. Andy 6:33 Yeah, heard carrots. Blanca. Sam 6:35 Right. The gut gut now. The Looney Tunes short now. Now did you watch the film? Casa Blanca? Andy 6:48 Yes, I watched the film Casa Blanca. Sam 6:50 And what did you think? Andy 6:53 Okay, so I really, really, really wanted to hate this movie. I wanted to be the person I ever for. I wanted to be the person who had a good hot take as to why Casa Blanca was an overrated an overrated piece of trash. I want it I wanted to find something wrong with it. I wanted to hate it. I wanted to hate Sam, for making me watch it. But instead, I have to say it's a Unknown Speaker 7:29 good movie. Sam 7:31 So you are a failure. But let's talk about why specifically this time? Why is this a good movie? Andy 7:39 Okay, so Humphrey Bogart plays Rick, the main character who owns a bar. And there are all these things that are kind of shorthand for older movies. Like, for instance, there's this thing where the characters kind of just say, their personality trait constantly. This is kind of parodied, and Hail Caesar a bit, but where the characters just, you know, just keep saying like, Oh, well, that's not for me, a girl never tie me down, etc, you know, they keep saying their, their, their, their thing, their their thing. And so Morocco is currently owned by unoccupied France, which means it's weirdly neutral, but also not neutral. At the same time, the police chief is very open about being corrupt and and accepting bribes, bribes from Humphrey Bogart. And Humphrey Bogart just has to keep saying like, I don't stick my neck out for nobody know how. And it's annoying shorthand in a lot of older movies, because it's like, Okay, this could have been written better that you didn't need to do this. Well, he has to keep saying this, though, because people keep asking him for favors. And for him to side with the Germans or the French, and he has to remain neutral. So he keeps saying it. And it's a really great way of working in character work. There's another thing about older movies that I really, really, really, really dislike. And that's when the movies are used as, as like a method of either showing a live musical performance, right? There are older movies that aren't musicals that just have a three or four minute musical number because, hey, look, remember, you used to be able to do the big band thing, and now we're in the Great Depression and everyone's poor. So this is the way to like, you know, live vicariously and see the clubs again. And Casa Blanca has a beautiful musical number that fits because there's subtext in it. There's subtext and the movie plot still keeps going around the clubs, keeps, keeps functioning, the you know, there's, there's, there's layers there. And this is also same thing that of older movies that I hate, where they also kind of double There's a travelogue, right like as a way of just showing people the world that they could never really see themselves. This is I think it's one of the reasons why around the world, the 80 days won the won the Oscar for Best Picture and like 50, whatever this movie is so weirdly progressive, in in a lot of ways, where for Humphrey Bogart is a man who has been incredibly hurt by by a woman earlier in his life, and that woman came back into his bar, and that's where I'll, where the one of the most famous lines of that I thought was from a, like, an old Noir. I, you know, she could have walked into any of the gin joints in the world, and she chose to walk into mine. That sounds so much more like a nor, and I have to say, it's so fascinating to see a character who's considered or an actor who's considered so manly and masculine, to actually show the vulnerability that he's showing in this, to actually admit that a, a woman hurt him and for it to affect how he proceeds with his life after this. And the movie does a great job of telegraphing, what happened, how it happened, making you hate the Ingrid Bergman character, and then understanding her completely when the truth comes out. It's it's, it's fascinating. There's, there's so much there are just layers to this dumb old movie. And I wanted to hate it, I really wanted to hate it. And it just, it was really good Sam 11:46 layers in this dumb old movie. You also refer to it as progressive earlier, which is, I think, very interesting in the context. So you know, back in episode eight, you did talk about Citizen Kane, which was written directed, starred Orson Welles. And you know, that was the the epitome of the autour theory of filmmaking, right. He did new things, you know, putting the, the the fabric ceiling so he could shoot from the bottom up and not have the audience see the stage lighting, the way that he managed to trick your eye into thinking they were non stop cuts, or no cuts. It was just one non stop scene without cuts just the number of things that he did, and moved forward the genre. Casa Blanca is put right next to it. But the irony is, is that it's based on a play, and was adapted into a screenplay by no less than four people. It was assigned a studio director, it was assigned to studio actors, the two lead actors did not get along with each other. This movie was a studio fabrication. Like, Kurt, he's directed. Hold on, I'll tell you real fast because it matters that year 1942 Kurt, he's directed Casa Blanca, Yankee Doodle Dandy and Captain in the clouds. He directed three movies that year, we could look up Bogart and I can tell you he was in multiple movies that year. This was a slapdash production that was put together. But here we are talking about how great it is against the literal opposite movie, Citizen Kane, which just goes to show you people know nothing. There are no trends. And sometimes what happens happens. Andy 13:46 And I do want to bring up the I don't think the acting is particularly grand. But the actors do a great job with the script. I also think that this movie is making a choice in the war effort. You know, this is was filmed before America got into the war, I believe. It is definitely making a a decision on where people should fall in the war on the France versus Germany side. It is definitely making a decision there. It also has, I think, and I'm not a an expert on old, old movies or were African American actors played in those role but it has a an African American actor who ostensibly at the beginning is just the the Muse club musician and actually demonstrates that he's very important to Humphrey Bogart, his character, Rick, that he's that he is a friend and a confidant and for Humphrey Bogart. to even be willing to play that with with the way that segregation was and racism in the 40s. Like that. It says a lot about this movie and what it was trying to do. It was really cool. And the way it It builds up to its twist in this twist is super famous. I won't say on the odds that you don't know it, but the way it builds up to it is really, really clever. Really clever. It is so bizarre. I I enjoyed this movie thoroughly. I enjoyed it a lot more than treasure the Sierra Madre, Tessa 15:34 I was gonna ask you, I will note that Julie Wilson, who plays Sam has just this beautiful rendition of time as time goes by I mean, that's obviously very famous. But it's also just, every time I hear it, I'm just struck by how beautiful that song is. And his performance is just excellent. But I was also going to ask you about the dialogue because I think that's half of what makes this movie so good is actually the dialogue and the pacing of the dialogue. I mean, I think I've laughed more at Claude Rains his jokes in this film than I have in any movie around that era. What did you think about the Claude Rains character and sort of his relationship and back and forth with Rick especially Humphrey Bogart, his character, Andy 16:17 right? He was he was so funny that there's just so many moments where he is both you know, an openly corrupt police captain. Just just straight up like Yeah, no, this is this is Casa Blanca I'm I'm the police chief. What I say goes Thanks for letting me win roulette wreck. It is it is so full of great great characters. Also it there was another movie that I watched shows a Orson Welles third movie actually called Journey into Fear that takes place around the same time as this, but it takes place in Turkey and there is a I would say some problematic representations of Turkish people. And in that in that movie, I couldn't pick up anything in my in my white you know, non knowledge of of Casa Blanca, and its history of being colonized or whatever, by France but yeah, yeah, no, no, the dialogue is hilarious and the jokes Hold up. So well. Also in karish Blanca, the the song that gets the Bugs Bunny character upset is just one note. Literally the the same character the musician is played by Daffy Duck and is asked to is is asked to play it play as a special song. By the the Elsa is her name? I keep wanting to call her that chick from Frozen. Elsa. Sam 18:12 Now, good movie, I'd watch that movie. Andy 18:14 Yeah, Yeah, that'd be a very different and Daffy just hits one key and Bugs Bunny Amelie jumps. I was like I told you never to play that song. Nice. But, but yeah, this. So funny. I am. I am absolutely stunned by how much I like this movie. And how much of a surprise it was for me to like this movie. And also, it reminds me again that even if you think you know things about a movie through cultural osmosis, you should still watch the movie because there's a lot more to it than that. Now, I'm Sam 18:52 just thinking about that that last scene at the airport. And she breaks out into song and sings let it go. It would work. It would work. She tells him to let it go. And he has to. I mean, do you want to build the snowman? And then no. And then he turns around, and instead of the beginning of a new friendship. The guy says I like warm hugs and it's fine. All right, so and he was wrong. If you haven't seen carrot Blanca, you should. Casa Blanca is a great movie that you would recommend Andy 19:29 anything else that Blanca is a great movie that I would recommend and also you for making me watch this. Sam 19:40 Hey, you're welcome. Now, let's talk a little bit about Tessa Tessa 19:46 spooked over. Sam 19:49 Think Thank you. So the thing that happens in October 1 of all we're going to have three weeks of spook tober Because our first episode in October will be devoted to our second question mark, part of our special James Bond series of episodes that are celebrating they promise, this time release date of Daniel Craig's last Bond film, no time to die. Just this week, they said we're doing it We promise no note, no changes. So we'll see. Anyway. So we're gonna have three episodes of Tessa 20:33 I hate you for making me say this over and over again. spooked Uber. Sam 20:40 And yeah, he didn't say I could edit it in there was something you already said. But anyway, wait, wait, wait, wait. Andy 20:45 I, my mind just blanked out. What are we doing again in October? Oh, yeah. Tessa. Tessa 20:52 spook tober I feel like it's slightly different every time it's like a fingerprint. Sam 20:59 Yeah, there's actually a little edge in that last one too. You could hear it anyway. Like the nice of the Andy 21:05 thing is in the, the the media will be consuming because spook tober is dangerous. Sam 21:11 So I just wanted to talk really quickly about what we're doing for that three week event, and I do I don't know about the rest of YouTube, but I have some spots open and I would love to hear recommendations from listeners. So anyway, Andy, what do you have planned for? You know, the thing I'm not gonna make Tessa Say it again just Andy 21:36 yet. Oh, I will. Sam 21:40 She's not gonna do it. So okay. Andy 21:42 Okay, fair enough. Well, what do I have planned? What do I have? Oh, man, I had something planned. And if I had read the notes beforehand, I would have known to look it up. One of the things I will be reading I will be reading something that's killing the children, which is a supposedly a horror horror comic book. I will also be playing some spooky spooky games. Some spooky games. I'm I'm going to be trying to do multiple games. To talk about the spooky Sam 22:17 spooky. Yeah, you're talking about video games? Not tabletop games. Andy 22:21 Right? I don't think tabletop games could be very spooky. I I'm happy to be proven wrong. Please. Somebody tell me about a spooky spooky board game. Sam 22:30 That was a challenge to the internet. Andy 22:33 Yes. Oh. Oh, and don't try to trick me. Okay. I don't want any of these haunted Weegee boards. I don't I don't want to know about the the Jumanji, but it's a horror thing. No, no, no. It's a real real board game that's being played as it was meant to by people who profit from it's being bought and being played. Okay. Do I? I don't I don't I don't want any of this. Any of these haunted things happening to me? And then finally, one Tessa 23:03 do not send Andy curse board games. Sam 23:06 Right? All right. And no, and no, no situations where you think it's over. But it's actually some real life horror. So no broken token affiliated things? Nothing like that. Okay. Andy 23:19 Right, exactly. And also. So I've already started this. But for testing Sam, I went on eBay. And I typed in haunted dolls. And I paid this lady for a haunted doll. And all I had to do was just tell her your names and the haunted doll will show up eventually at your place, wherever you are. Sam 23:46 Well, you know much like everything else in life. This instance taught me how to deal with this all you got to do is open up the back of the doll and switch it from evil to good fight. And Andy 23:56 finally for the final week is October I'll be doing a spooky movie horror marathon because I don't have a lot of time and this is a great way to waste the time that I do have. Sam 24:09 Will you be taking recommendations for that movie marathon? Andy 24:13 I will absolutely be taking recommendations. I will be taking recommendations for everything. Everyone, please. Please give me horror movies. I want some horror movies. Sam 24:24 Alright, Tessa, what are you going to be doing for? Unknown Speaker 24:30 spook tober Alright, I have to have the three slots. Tessa 24:36 filled that sounds really dirty. I have to have the three slots taken. That still Andy 24:43 sounds pretty dirty. Tessa 24:45 So I think the first week of spook tober I am going to be watching aliens. Aliens plural. The second movie of the year. Whoa, Andy 24:54 whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, no, you can't do that. Tessa 24:57 Yes, I can absolutely aliens Sam 24:59 alien. is very famously, not a horror movie, because it's a sequel to an actual horror movie alien and that seems fine. But I would also like to point out Andy, if you're getting really upset, she doesn't have an owner list, but we will also be watching scream force. Maybe we'll talk about that too. I don't know, bonus monkey. Tessa 25:22 Aliens or scream for one of the two. Andy 25:24 No, you can do aliens. It's enough of a horror movie. So sorry, Tesla. Tessa 25:28 I have no idea. So I have been we've been doing this thing where there are some franchises that I just didn't get into until my late 20s. And alien is one of them. Scream is another one. And so we've been like watching one film a year. So one of those two will be what I talked about during that first week. And then the second week of spook tober. I will be reading the book by tonnato redo the good house. Janata review, for those of you who don't know, is a master of black horror. Her book The between is just mind blowingly. Good. So I'll be reading the good house. Andy 26:09 Wait, wait, wait, how could something called the good house be a horror book, Tessa? Tessa 26:14 Oh, I like your calling houses have ever been featured in a horror film. So I am excited to see how she uses a house. Sam 26:22 riddle me this. Andy. Did corn have a negative connotation before Children of the Corn? I think not. Andy 26:30 Yes, it was it was used as a frontier to kill the Native Americans. Sam 26:35 I'd like to remind everybody that the theme of this episode is being hoisted on your own petard. Tessa 26:41 I have nothing I have nothing for the third slot of spook tober. So I will definitely take recommendations. I'm thinking about maybe doing the second season of American horror stories since I did the first season last year. I'd like to hear from the listeners on whether that's a good idea or not. Or if you have other suggestions of things I should watch for that or read for that third slot. Andy 27:06 Oh, I've got suggestions. Sam 27:09 I mean, the second season of American Horror Story is is not a good idea. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. Anyway. Speaking of Claude Rains, as we were before, this is not a clouds ratings appreciation podcast, but it probably could be well clods mom won't listen so we should Yeah, hi, clouds mom. We so I was going to watch for last year I was going to watch the mummy and the Invisible Man. didn't have time. I chose poorly by watching the mommy so we're going to try and get that right and watch the Invisible Man this year. The original universal with Claude Rains. I think I'm going to try to finish black mirror I think I'm going to try it 100% Black Mirror. Watch the upside didn't watch last year hadn't seen prior to. That's all I got. So I'm ready. Are you? Andy 27:59 Are you also going to listen to the open Mike Eagle song? Black Mirror episode ruin my marriage? Sam 28:05 Probably not. Okay, probably not. Alright, so it is one of our more fun entertaining series. Like I said, it's gonna come right on the heels of our two question mark parter, James Bond series of podcasts. And I guess really quickly before we move on, maybe we should tease because we're going to start recording this in about a month, but it's not going to show up until December, Tessa tell them. Tessa 28:36 So this is obviously well in advance of the holiday season. But last year, Sam and I decided to do the nine days of fast and furious. We all heard good things from you about that series. We had a lot of fun watching the Fast and Furious movies. We had a lot of fun with our guests, some of whom had never seen any of the Fast and Furious movies. This year, we decided to make things harder for ourselves because if you know anything about us on this podcast, you know that that is what we love to do. So this year, we are going to do the 13 days of x men so we are going to watch all 13 films of the fox x men series. We are going to have tons of really exciting guests. We're going to be releasing those in December around around Christmas. So stay tuned for that. lots of exciting stuff in our future. Andy 29:31 Okay, well I also I have an announcement to make because I will not be outdone by Tess's announcement that they'll be doing the x men series. So for spook tober I am so terrified because I do not I do not do well watching scary movies. But if you tweet at me with the secret phrase and the secret phrase is Tesla rocks Oh, that's right. I will stream me watching whatever horror movie you give me. Okay, so so so what this means I am a very jumpy person and I am talking about my my lovely wife will come in the room when I'm doing my work. Not not being engaged in anything at all and I will not hear her and she will go Do you want something to drink and I will jump. Okay, I am a jumpy person. It could be very entertaining for people to watch me on Twitch as I watch a horror movie and give live commentary. Tessa 30:50 You heard it here first y'all. New spook tober series from Andy. There we go. I will not Andy 30:57 be outdone by Tessa and Sam doing something good for this podcast, and torturing themselves by watching dark Phoenix. I will go ahead and take a knock on that chain myself. Which will probably be a literal knock when I fall on the floor because I jumped so hard. Tessa 31:12 You heard it here first tweet at Andy noted with the secret phrase Tessa rocks and your choice of horror movie to watch handy Andy stream on Twitch during spook tober. So Sam, we're gonna move into what you did this week. But first I would like to point out that soul music is actually the title of a Terry Pratchett novel, which is what I thought you did this week when you entitled the segment soul music. But you actually listened to some soul music Andy 31:46 this week. Wait, is this music of the soul? Like like is this like like, like if you pull someone's soul out and put it on a on a weird a weird paranormal? What do they call those things? Before record players? sonogram Sam 32:07 you're talking about phonographs, aren't you? Andy 32:08 Yes, yes. There we go. A weird, a weird supernatural phonograph. And play is that is is that what you're talking about? Sam 32:17 First, you know, as increasingly problematic as it gets, and then it was reclaimed. And then cancelled by Hulu. But there's this really great scene in the film version of high fidelity, where this this person comes in. And they're asking for the soul music section. And they asked john cusecs character Rob, do you have soul? deadpan? And then he just points over to the section. So I mean, I think that was relevant to what you said Andy? Second of all, Tessa, you know, it wasn't the Terry Pratchett novel, you were literally in the room when I listened to it. So what I did, as I said, a couple weeks ago, I would do is I listened to two albums by Otis Redding, and two by Marvin Gaye. So this was not a deep dive by any means. This was just a surface scratch of genre that is very varied and complex, and cannot be boiled down in the way that I'm about to talk about these four albums. But interestingly, because it was not a deep dive. Although I've never listened to these albums before. I knew a bit more than I thought I did about what I listened to this week. But it was a really interesting experience, and I'm looking forward to talking about it just a bit. Tessa 33:39 Okay, so let's start with Otis Redding. What two albums Did you listen to by him this week? Sam 33:46 If you know, Otis Redding, you probably know the song dock of the bay, or imprints these sitting on the dock of the bay. The first time I heard that song was where it was most prominently featured as I was growing up in the 80s, the movie Top Gun, but you know, it was also a staple of oldies radio. Interestingly enough, this song was the first posthumous number one hit. Otis Redding died in 1967, shortly after recording that song, so the albums that I listened to were recorded and released during his lifetime. So dock of the bay is not on either one of those albums. Now. Otis Redding is known as you know, I don't really know how commonly these names were used, but he was known as the Mad the Mad man from Macon and the GI Mmm. So he recorded on Stax Records or one of their subsidiaries. If you don't know anything about Stax Records. It is out of Memphis. It is the main competitor of Motown Records, which you have most assuredly heard of. And that will come into play later. The two albums I listened to are Otis blue from 65 and complete an unbelievable the Otis Redding Dictionary of soul recorded and released the following year. Andy 35:12 So so you're but you're saying that Otis Redding was the original mmmmm Sure. Sam 35:22 I play your game. But Andy 35:25 that that's it. Tessa 35:28 So, so obviously, even I have heard of Otis Redding. What What did you think of these of these albums? Which one did you listen to first? Sam 35:37 I did listen to Otis blue because it was released first. Andy 35:43 But was it recorded first? Tell me that. Sam 35:46 Yes. Andy 35:47 Are you sure you prove it? Uh, Sam 35:51 sure. Andy 35:52 How, how would that change things though? It was actually recorded second. I what I want I want to dive into the psyche. That is Sam, Tessa 36:05 how would that change broke? Sam? I don't think he has the ability to imagine an album recorded second that released first. So Sam 36:18 for all you Beatles superfans out there, let it be was in fact recorded before Abbey Road, but was released after Abbey Road. I don't like it. But it's true. Andy 36:30 Right? Yeah. So So what order would you listen to those in? Well, would you listen to Abbey Road first or let it be first? Sam 36:39 So I think the the thought experiment to do on that one is if you're listening to released albums chronologically, you should in fact, listen to Abbey Road because it was produced because it was released before Let it be however. However, the other way to do that particular experiment is to listen. After you get done with the White Album, to listen to let it be naked, which came out a little while ago, after Paul McCartney and friends decided to strip out everything that Phil Spector did to let it be. So if you want to listen to the album that was recorded before Abbey Road, you listen to let it be naked. If you want to listen to the original release of Let it be, you should in fact, listen to it after Abbey Road. Andy 37:34 Okay, okay. I'm now naked. So let's listen to let it be. Sam 37:40 This is your fault for asking. I am aware. So I listened to Otis blue first. And so here's the thing. I really like Otis Redding's voice and I really like Marvin Gaye's voice, you have to consider them as as different entities, because the first of all, they're different people. But you get a very different kind of voice. I think the easiest way for me to describe it, even though arrows reading is a very smooth singer, he has much more of an edge on his voice than Marvin Gaye does. And so, you know, there's some songs that are more appropriate for voice like readings and there are for for gays. And so Otis blue is a really good example of that. But here's the other thing. One of the reasons that r&b and soul, which kind of bleed over into each other, are not given the kind of respect that they deserve. Pun not intended, but we'll get there is the idea that folks like Otis Redding and Marvin Gaye don't write their own stuff, which is, first of all, not true. But there are a lot of r&b soul artists, just like there are pop artists who don't write their own lyrics. There are good reasons for that. But then we look at Rock folks who do write their own songs, and we think well, that has more legitimacy. By the way, Tessa said out loud yesterday, I think I just like harder music than you do. And I just want to point out it's weird that somebody who's known me as long as Tessa has has known me long enough that that statement could be accurate and true. And you didn't know how much harder music I used to listen to. Although, if you had asked me back when I took history of rock, when I was an undergrad, I would have told you I like rock and roll but I like pop music better because I'm in it for the melody, not for anything else. Tessa 39:44 I just want to issue a quick correction. I didn't say I liked harder music than you I said I like angrier music than you. Andy 39:52 And we all know Tessa is the definition of angry. I am looking at this face right now. And Tessa is about to destroy roomie her soul eating like, smile that hides knives is just about to destroy me. Angry Tessa we call her. Tessa 40:11 It's true. That is my nickname on the streets. So, Sam, tell me about the tracks on the album. What What were your favorites? What were your least favorites? Andy 40:21 Oh, I actually I actually do have a serious question for Sam. You mentioned Otis how to his voice had more of an edge to it. Yeah. And Sam 40:32 yeah. Andy 40:33 I'm just trying to figure out like, like, like, in my mind. Edge means more of like, Well, unfortunately, more tesl like you're a more angry, but but capable of still being beautiful. But then having a little bit of more emotion to it. I'm thinking more of Leonard Cohen's. Hallelujah versus the other one. Buckley's hallelujah. Sam 40:59 Right. That's a really good way to think about it. You know, like, you think about r&b and soul is very smooth, right? You think about it as crony. Which in a way Jeff Buckley is, although not always. And then you have Leonard Cohen that, you know, it sounds like he just smoked an entire pack of cigarettes and hit record, right. You know, reading does have more of that, that you're that you're providing what's interesting is DACA the bay, before he died, they were they were having an argument about whether they should release that song because it is it is very, very smooth, and lacks that vocal quality that a lot of his other recordings have, and it's the one he's most known for. So, Otis blue was one of the things you get it from a lot of r&b and soul albums. It's like, here's a bunch of songs. And, and there's not a lot of cohesion, which is why we talk about singles a lot more than we talk about albums, Otis blue is cohesive, not because it wasn't just a collection of songs, mostly written by other people because it was, but it was recorded in about 24 hours, 24 continuous hours with only a little bit of work done after that, and a lot of cocaine, maybe. But so the two songs that reading did write for this album that you may know because of his performance or somebody else's, is I've been loving you too long, as well as respect. Otis Redding wrote the song popularized by Aretha Franklin respect. What's really funny about that is that it is a song connected with the idea of of empowerment for women. But in the original reading song, he's asking his little girl for respect. So you know, there's some there's some patronization and then Aretha turns it into something else. I think that's pretty neat. Um, there are songs by Sam Cooke, who by the way is also known as the King of soul change gonna come and wonderful world The one where you don't know much about biology and all that stuff. I don't know if you know that one. There's a BB King cover called Rock me baby. There's a my girl the song, you know, by the temptations that's written by Smokey Robinson, both from Motown and then finally a cover of the seminal r&b song by one Mick Jagger satisfaction. Andy 43:33 Okay, isn't my girl also the movie that traumatized me as a child where that one nerdy kid from that one movie gets killed by bees? And is a lot that yes, no, that's my Sam 43:45 No, no, that is correct. And then his younger brother grows up to be a terrible person on succession. True story. Good job. You did it. In the in the sake of we're doing good work here. But I'll tell you, complete and unbelievable was a real disappointment compared to this album. I did not like it nearly as much. I listened to it. I had to choose. I was like, do I listen to the posthumous collection the dock of the bay is on, but I didn't because I wanted to listen to albums that were released with forethought by Otis Redding. And so the other thing the other little tidbit for complete and unbelievable. The Otis Rex, the Otis Redding Dictionary of soul is it has his other most recognizable song, the one that Jay Z and Kanye West sampled on watch the throne on the song Otis, the song is try a little tenderness. It is as good as you think it is. It is way better than anything else on that album. And by the way, try a little tenderness was written and first recorded in 1932. That is a mumble fact. Tessa 44:53 All right, so you listen to two different artists this week. I just says now asked about Marvin Gaye. I'm trying to think of a way to ask about Marvin Gaye without like, sounding like I have no idea who Marvin Gaye is. Sam 45:07 I heard it through the grapevine, Sam that you listen to Marvin Gaye as well. Andy 45:12 The only reference I have is the Avett Brothers have a song called the day Marvin Gaye died. So continue Tessa 45:18 to talk about Marvin Gaye. Sam 45:21 Marvin Gaye was shot and killed, I believe in 1984. I wasn't going to mention that. But since you brought it up, so Andy 45:29 I didn't know that. Sam 45:31 Well, now you do. Marvin Gaye was known as the prince of Motown and the prints of soul. Andy 45:38 So how much royalty do they have? Sam 45:41 That I told you it was a really surface? experiment? Listen to soul, like, there's so much happening beyond that. The history of Stax and Motown are fascinating. The history of the the writers of the songs, you've got the Brill building, you've got people like Don Kirshner, who broke out of that mold and created the monkeys on the same archetype. You know, just it's fascinating. And and, and, you know, that's beginning to get into the, the, the, the whitening of r&b and soul By the way, which definitely happened. We don't have time to talk about all that, but it's all there. So I listened to two albums. I listened to one in the groove, which is also just known as I heard it through the grapevine, which is from 68. And then I listened to what's going on from 71. So So Marvin Gaye recorded for Motown. As I said, he is just the smoothest of singers. It's just, you know, when he when he talks about the stuff that he talks about, and what's going on, it still was such a smooth voice that if you weren't paying attention, you wouldn't really know what he's singing about. Andy 46:50 So wasn't uh, I heard it through the grapevine originally done by the California raisins. Sam 46:56 So the reason that I know Marvin Gaye is because of the California raisins. Like that was a thing. When I was a kid, you know, I listened to all these records with or oldies radio with my dad. That's how I knew Dr. The Bay outside of Top Gun. But I heard it through the grapevine. I didn't know as a Marvin Gaye song. I knew it as a Creedence Clearwater Revival song because Fogarty and friends covered it. And so when the California raisins became a thing, I was like, there's another version of the song, and it's very interesting. So I know you're making fun, but that is true. That is what happened for me. Andy 47:32 I mean, it's it's kind of similar to what happened for me too. So anyway, Sam 47:36 in the groove, or I heard it through the grapevine, whichever one you want to call it, is kind of a comeback album of sorts. Gay had done a lot of stuff earlier, he had done a lot of duets that are very popular that you probably heard of. But this was the first time in like a year and a half he had been in the studio. He There are songs, none of which are extremely memorable to me, other than I heard it through the grapevine, but what I do want to say is, it's an interesting, it's very pleasing, enjoyable, if ultimately forgettable, it's a really good experience. But here's the thing. Here's some of the writers featured on this album, Eddie Holland, and our Ruby gay. Who is Barry Gordon's, or sorry, who is berry Gordy's sister. Barry Gordy is the founder of Motown. She married Marvin Gaye. There's Ashford and Simpson, one of the many married couples songwriters who wrote for Motown, Geoffrey Bowen, Frank Wilson, you don't know these names, but you know the songs they wrote. look them up. Also, there is a you know, of course, you have on this album you have a contribution by Gerry Goffin and Carole King, who were married but then divorced. Carole King is, you know, Carole King, and she's awesome. You contrast that with the album that he does three years later what's going on, on which he co writes or writes every single song some of them are with Anna gay his wife. This this is what you can call it a concept album. It I've seen it referred to it. I've seen it. It says it on Wikipedia. But I've read this many other times. It's referred to as a song cycle, which is another way of thinking about an album based around a concept. It's just the songs blend into one another. They are distinct, but they are meant to be taken together, which is a big thing about the album as a piece of art rather than just songs. Of course, you probably have heard what's going on the song, but I will recommend, by the way, Merci, merci me in parentheses, the ecology. That is my favorite song on that album. I think that's the best song from Marvin Gaye from my own point of view. And so this This album is very much concerned with issues of Vietnam and the environment. We are not talking about girls, and what they should do, and boys what they ought to do. Marvin Gaye is really getting into what's going on. This is the album that precedes trouble man, which comes out to soundtrack to a film that comes out the following year, which is very much concerned with a lot of the same issues. Tessa 50:25 So did trouble man, make your Captain America list? Sam 50:29 I really wanted to listen to trouble man as well. So I could talk about it today. But I just didn't have time. But I am looking forward to listening to it. That is famously the the thing that makes Captain America's list. It's what Sam Wilson recommends to him. In winter soldier when they first meet in the American version. Andy 50:54 It's different every country, Sam 50:56 right? Well, no trouble man is the one that's on all the lists. Okay, right. Yes. Yeah. So that's interesting. Tessa 51:05 So for people who are also unfamiliar with soul music as a genre, what would you recommend that they start with? Where are these albums that anybody could listen to? What would be your rack here? Sam 51:19 So the easiest thing to do if you weren't raised on oldies radio, like I did is you got to find yourself a compilation. Motown has got a great compilation that you can easily find on streaming. I imagine that Stax does too you'll get a lot that way. for, you know, Marvin Gaye, look up a compilation on him. But also, what's going on as an album is great. With Otis Redding, find a compilation first. The songs are really good. And then when you start to get into a deeper dive, they're still good. But they are variations on a theme in many, many ways. And had a good time. I should be listening more to this. And we'll see what happens. So total 180. Tessa, the prisoner? Why was this a monkey that hung out on your list for so long? Andy 52:19 She kept it locked up. Tessa 52:22 I want to point out that every time we said the words the prisoner this week, one of us would start singing prisoner by Miley Cyrus, Miley Cyrus and dua Lipa, so just want that to be out out there. So I love 60s TV. I love it so much. I grew up on Star Trek TLS. I've talked about that before on the show. I love the monkeys. I love Batman 66. I love a lot of movies that came out in the 60s. Andy 52:52 She loves the old doctor who's Tessa 52:54 Yeah, yeah, I've seen a lot of the old doctor who's I really enjoy 60s aesthetic. I enjoy the avant garde feel of a lot of 60s TV, they were doing some really interesting things in the 60s when it came to TV. And the prisoner is one of those shows that keeps showing up on one of the greatest television series of all time, it shows up on some of the greatest television series of the 60s. It's just been on my list forever. And since the theme of this episode was based on something we said a couple of episodes ago about old pop culture that we just keeps hanging out on our list. And we never got to this is one of those shows that's just hung out there for a long time. Because I just it's not something I kept thinking about. It's just been on my list. And it's just hard to remember things that have been on your list for a long time sometimes. And this has just been one of those shows. So really into 60s TV, but this one has just been one of those like white whales of just I keep I keep meaning to get to it. I keep meaning to get to it. Sam 53:56 If you grew up during the time that I did, and you watch the Simpsons as avidly as I did, there was an occasional reference that just made absolutely zero sense. Like you knew it referred to something. But it was something you had no access to. And you were too young for the prisoner is one of those things. What is this? Tessa 54:16 I'm gonna do my best to set up what this show is because it's it's a lot. I'm just gonna put that out right in the front. It is a lot going on in the show. So it is like I said an avant garde science fiction TV series about an unnamed British spy, played by Patrick McGoohan who he resigns from his post as a British intelligence agent is abducted by interested parties who are concerned about the information that is in his head from all of his works as a British spy, and imprisoned in a bizarre coastal village with other prisoners in a twisted social experiment. And that's just The first 10 minutes of the first episode like I like that is the setup for the entire show. But they just they do that they set up the entire show in that first 10 minutes. But in a nutshell, that is the show. It has 17 episodes. It is a true series like it is bookended it is just 17 episodes. There's no cliffhanger. It's just a single plot and a free show. Yeah, it was a British show. It was released. Andy 55:28 Britain still do 17 episodes in a season. Tessa 55:30 Yeah, well, they did in the 60s, especially in the year 1967, which is when the show was released. Andy 55:36 blowing my mind, Tessa. Sam 55:39 Okay, so that that is the basic overview of the show or the premise for the show. But what is the show about? I love it when we do segments where we just keep asking the same question. It makes me happy. Tessa 55:53 So this is such a bizarre show, I only watched four episodes of it, I have to admit, because it's an hour long episodes and remind me never to put to TV series, especially ones that are over 30 minute episode length long on my list, right as the semester is starting, it's really really difficult to do that. This show, it really focuses on number six, that is the unnamed they assign numbers to the prisoners in this coastal village. And number six is the British agent played by Patrick Magoo. And we'll get into what his real name might be here in a moment. But it really it really focuses on him trying to understand what's happening in this village. This like Bizarro land that he has found himself in, trying to escape, right? He's trying to he's trying to get out of this village. But it's also kind of interested in like a psychological BF Skinner behavioral psychology type of situation, in this village, like they're definitely using. All those things we were afraid that the CIA was doing to their agents in this village. Like they're trying to program people to do certain things to be certain way to give up their secrets. They're trying to understand why number six resigned, because he just up and resigned. He was like, I don't want to do this anymore. And they're like, Oh, is he defecting? Is he giving his information to interested parties. So they're trying to understand that and he's, of course, resisting them, as they tried different things to get him to talk, basically. And it's just but it's also really interested in postmodern storytelling. So there's a lot of very strange things that happen in this season. They play with time they play with different social experiments, things they play with different vivid imagery, there's a lot of really trippy colors in this as well. There is a random, like, balloon type creature that patrols the edge of the peninsula that the village is on, and if you try to escape it will affect you and kill you, basically. So there's that like, there's a lot of mystery to the show it. I'm going to talk about its relationship with lost here in a minute. But this show really reminded me of like a progenitor of last where there's a lot going on. Number six is trying to figure it out. But there's more. Every time he thinks he answers a question. It brings up like three more questions about what's going on. Sam 58:33 By the way, Tessa only watches shows about mysterious locales. With weird plots that involve skinny area and psychology. That's that's the best I can impose modern storytelling. So that's a that's a real arc for Tessa, this is probably a really good time to mention that we are working on a spin off podcast called Tessa watches last look out for that on this very feed soon. by hook or by crook you will answer this next question. Who is danger man? Andy 59:09 by crook by crook. Tessa 59:12 That's actually one of the quotes from the beginning of the the opening of the episode by hook or by crook. This is where things get a little strange. danger. Danger man was another British TV series that ran just before the prisoner it ran from 1964 to 1968. It also starred Patrick McGoohan as the titular danger man, his name, his character's name was john Drake, and he played a British intelligence agent who was very James Bond, like he would just kind of travel the world and do different spy missions. In fact, Ian Fleming actually consulted on the series before it filmed, so there's a lot of like DNA of James Bond In this particular character, Patrick McGoohan decided that he didn't want to do a fourth season of danger man and pitched the prisoner instead. So there are a lot of people who believe that his character from danger demand. A lot of people believe that his character, john Drake, from danger, man, is actually number six from the prisoner, that the prisoner is a continuation of danger man, even though it goes into a completely different genre of film storytelling. So it is really interesting that even in the 60s, we are starting to get, for lack of a better word, some kind of continuity between shows this idea of like a cinematic universe in some ways, because yeah, he basically decided to take this character and make another show if he was imprisoned on like this wild Island. Sam 1:00:54 Right? Who is number one? Tessa 1:00:59 That would be telling Sam 1:01:01 you are number six, Tessa 1:01:03 I am not a number, I am a man. But yeah, anyway, that that is also from the beginning of the other series. So they're all Assigned Numbers when they get to this village. And one of the most interesting things about this show is that it never shows who number one is, we only get to see number two, who is sort of in charge of number six is interrogation, as it were in charge of the imprisonment in charge of the village, the prison. But number two changes every episode, like every episode number two is played by a different actor. And it becomes like this running bit that they keep sending different people to try to break number six, basically, to come up with different ideas about how to get the information that's in his head. And it's just such an interesting bit every episode trying to see who it is, he's going to play number two, what what they're going to try that episode, whether it be one of the episodes they actually tried to get into number six is dreams and use like dream logic to get the information out of his head. There's another episode where they basically try to fake him out by making him think that he's escaped. But he hasn't escaped it. It's just so fascinating to me all of the different parts of this story. I also want to mention, the costumes are ridiculous. They are in full 60s flair, everyone is wearing bright colors and stripes, except for number six, who is wearing a black suit. But he has this number pinned on his lapel. It's just it The music is great. It is fascinating. It's also really a critique of the Cold War in a lot of ways, because number six keeps asking, Whose side are you on, because he doesn't know if he's been abducted by the British or by the other side, which would have been the Soviet Union at this point. And they keep basically making the point that it doesn't actually matter, because the techniques of both sides have evolved to the point where it's basically the same thing, which is really interesting, the idea that this village could be run by the Soviet Union, or the British and it doesn't really matter in the end, because the whole thing is rigged, right? It's all a game that's been fixed. Nobody's profiting off of this except for the rich people on both sides. And so it's fascinating to me the different kinds of storylines that this particular show goes into, if I were to have one critique of the show, and this is a big critique, because I think that it will turn some people off is that it is underwritten. I really wish that the episodes weren't an hour long. I wish they were closer to 40 minutes long, but there's always about 20 minutes in every episode that doesn't need to be there. This show is more interested in the vibe of the village. It's more interested in creating striking imagery than it is in actually writing the plot of each episode. So and I think that's just endemic of 60s television. I think there's a lot of 60s TV that suffers from that antenna antenna. The movie by Chris Nolan, Sam 1:04:08 good old Christianne Andy does this. How does this make you feel about this television show? Andy 1:04:14 Like I was right to never watch it and I never well. Sam 1:04:18 Tessa, is Andy wrong, would you recommend it? Tessa 1:04:21 So I would recommend it to people specifically who like me like 60s television. If you like that vibe, you're gonna love this show. If you like the weirder episodes of Star Trek TLS. You will like this show. If you like the weirder episodes of Doctor Who you will probably like the show. If you are perhaps taking a controlled substance you will like the show. There's a lot of different things about the show that it could appeal to certain types of people. But if you're just not interested in that vibe or you like things that have more character and plot development, this is probably not the show for you. Sam 1:04:58 I To warmer? Tessa 1:05:01 No, I do want to mention that I think this is a progenitor for last, I talked about that before. There's a lot of lost proto lost elements in this show. But if you go well, I like lost I like to show it does not have the same vibe as last. So I'm not gonna say like, if you like lost watch the show. But if you like anything that I've said, you'll probably enjoy at least seeing an episode or two of it. I mean, I plan on finishing it according to the internet, it has a great twist. So I'm excited. Sam 1:05:35 I like lost, and I like the prisoner. And if you don't agree with this, you can come tweet at me at portly Island boy to the corrections department, but the prisoner ends in a way that makes more sense and is more satisfying, and makes me feel a little bit better than lost. Really quickly. Before we end the episode, I want to give you a little insight into the funhouse mirror. That is our household. Because we're watching Season Two of lost right now we're alternating seasons of loss and Star Trek. So we watched Star Trek Season Two and now we're watching loss season two, we are still working our way through a rewatch of the good fight because we finished the good wife and smash cut directly into that so we could get to the new season. We're also trying to finish Lucifer. And now we've got the prisoner hanging out there that we're trying to get through. And we still have the back half of my so called life. We're also watching High School Musical, the musical the series for my monkey and a few weeks. And Tessa is itching. We finally got her to watch er, but we have to finish some of this stuff first. So it's a real fun, real fun mood over here. Tune in next week. Andy 1:06:53 When same Valley watches were also then Sam 1:06:55 Tessa is watching the only hard hitting film about roller derby to feature singer songwriter Landon pig. And I'll finally figure out whether or not sparks is a real band or the art pop version of spinal tap. In the meantime, where can you find us, Andy? Andy 1:07:16 You can find me online on twitter at Andy noted and Yeah, yep, yep, I'm not gonna plug that thing again. Tessa 1:07:25 You can find me online at suela. Tessa Swehla is spelled SW e HLA. Find me on Twitter or Instagram. Sam 1:07:34 Find me on twitter at Sam underscore Morris nine send us your thoughts about the monkeys we talked about today. What pop culture you've crossed off your list lately, what you'd like for us to talk about on future episodes or anything else that comes to mind. Find us on Twitter and Instagram at monkey backlog Email us at monkey off my backlog@gmail.com our theme song is hot shot by Scott Holmes that can be found on Scott Holmes music.com please rate review and subscribe on iTunes. Follow us on Spotify, Stitcher, Amazon podcasts, Google podcasts or wherever you listen to podcast. Get that monkey off your back. Be seeing you Transcribed by https://otter.ai