Tessa 0:16 Welcome to monkey off my backlog the podcast where we exercise our pop culture demons by tackling our media to do lists one week at a time. I'm your host Tessa and with me are my co hosts, Andy. Andy 0:30 Hello, Tessa 0:32 and Sam Sam 0:34 Excel car. Tessa 0:36 This week, Andy bends light and the conversation to His will. Sam is still waiting for a Bruce Campbell cameo on this podcast. And I visit a pocket universe utopia. This was almost an accidental Marvel themed week except Andy had to ruin it. Sam 0:59 This is I think ruining is an accidental theme in this episode too, because Sony ruined Spider Man three. Tessa 1:07 Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about Spider Man three. First of all, I'm shocked. Shocked. You say that you have never seen Spider Man three? Yeah. Why? Why is that? Sam 1:22 Well, this falls under the category of life getting in the way of pop culture. And so I will just very, very quickly say that if you're going to call the cops on somebody, make sure you're calling them on the right person. I never finished this movie I've seen I'd seen somewhere between 50% and two thirds of this. However, my evening ended with three different police officers from two different jurisdictions at my door for you know, totally incorrect reasons. Tessa 2:02 noise complaint, right. Yeah. Sam 2:05 Yeah, the the actual story there is a mom bought her kid a drum set in an apartment building. That's what happened. That's what happened. Yeah. And, and, yeah, so I didn't we never finished that movie. I never went back to it. I remember it being bad. Yeah, but I don't know how much of the bad I'd actually see you were too traumatized. I was so like, you know, that's, that's the thing that happens, right? You know, sometimes we mean to watch something. You know, we have tickets for a movie, or a show, you know, something like that. And, you know, like, have like a car accident or some friend has a crisis, you know, like, or you get sick. You know, right. These things happen all the time. And sometimes we get back to the thing that we intended to experience and other times we just don't Tessa 3:03 I completely understand this, because this is why I never went back and finished the crown. I watched the first five episodes of the crown the night before my beloved dog passed away. And while I was like sitting up with him while he was sick, so for me, I could never go back to it. Because I just had too much like emotional baggage attached to it. Even though the crown is a perfectly good show. Sam 3:29 Which I finally finished this week. Tessa 3:31 You did finally finish four seasons. Yeah, that was one that you watched pretty much without me. Yeah, Sam 3:37 it was it was really odd that the aliens chose Elizabeth to make first contact with I guess that's like a doctor who thing like maybe they saw that that's the only reason I can think about but I mean, like, I did not know that prior to watch like season of the crowd. I didn't know. I didn't know. And and you know, I'm just really happy that Diana was there to like, broker communication because she's the only normal one there. Tessa 4:04 I feel like you're describing Galaxy Quest. But if it was Dr. Who I? Yeah, yeah. Alright, so back to Spider Man. We've had three spider men in the last 15 years and have had another spider man three just in this last year. Remind us who the first of the three spider men is. And what the first Spider Man three was about. Sam 4:29 It's long before Tom Holland. And even before Andrew Garfield. There was a guy by the name of Tobey Maguire. And he was the first Spider Man of the new millennium. We've had like 17 at this point across all media, but he was the first. You know, famously, this movie was made The first Spider Man movie was largely well I actually don't know how much of it was done but done prior to 911 Because of course famously the the trailer with the World Trade Center in it was scrapped. So this, you know, so Tobey Maguire is truly new millennium. New Century I'm gonna say to procreate ASAP accidentally at least once you know that right I know Tessa 5:22 that Yeah, right I think it's hilarious that you get them confused because they are in this movie together. Sam 5:27 Yeah, so it came out in 2007 it was the third Sam Raimi directed in this trilogy. I don't know that Sam Raimi knows how films equals work. So like, when they made equal to two, I guess because there was a two in the title. He thought he made the same movie twice, which is what he did. And I imagined somebody probably Bruce Campbell, told him that's not how movies work. So when he made Spider Man three, he's like, Okay, I know we don't make the movie three times. I understand that. But what does that mean? We have to have three villains. And once again, Bruce Campbell told him probably no, because it's not actually his fault. This movie is too bloated. And that's why it's not a good movie. We know this, but apparently this is not Sam Raimi is Paul Sam Raimi only wanted Harry Osborn and Sandman in this movie. Ari Ovid is responsible for venom. And Sony is responsible for Gwen Stacy, as I understand it, so I mean, really, I think and I'll say a little bit more about this later, but I think this movie is an exercise in making the best out of a bad situation. Yes, Andy 6:43 yes. I have recently rewatched Spider Man three. And I have to say I am surprised by how, how actually kind of good a lot of the Spider Man is you have to embrace the comic book Enos though. Like you have to really just be in that mindset. And it works. For the most part, it works. Parts of it work. Can Sam 7:05 I Can I ask you real fast, Andy? Okay, so the scene with Peter Parker of strolling down the street. If they had done that JGL style from 500 days with like a bird on his shoulder, would that have been better? Would that be embracing the comic? Andy 7:21 Yeah, you know what, actually, it would look the the only like real problem that I have with vitamin three is the casting of total Grace's venom. Sam 7:32 Annie Alright, hold on. Let me back up here. Because I because I think we're about ready to all go ham on a specific joke here. So this movie if you haven't seen it yet, here are the basic plot lines. Flint Marco is a man trying to get enough money for treatment for his sick daughter. Physics happened to him and turn him into the Santa band. He also without spoiling it has a connection to the man who murdered uncle band. Tada. We have Harry Osborn, who is haunted by his dad or his dad's alter ego, the same one who wanted him and who haunted Norman in the first movie. And he is out for revenge except very, very quickly. At the beginning of this movie, he ends up with amnesia because this is a soap opera movie. I guess. We also have venom a symbiote. Oh my god, another planet who infects Peter. And of course you know where this is going because you've know anything about them. You know that Eddie Brock is in this movie. Eddie Brock is a rival photographer. He is unscrupulous he will get what he wants. And what he wants is to be a photographer and to date Quinn Stacy, both of which he does in this movie. Tessa 8:57 It's kind of implied that he perhaps stalks when Stacey in this movie. Okay. Sam 9:02 Also it just want to say the other plotline. Peter is a jerk the venom Tessa 9:05 movies have now completely gaslit me on how you're supposed to say the word Sim symbient symbiote simians SMB it symbiote Andy 9:15 Okay, wait, so you have now seen the venom movies. Sam 9:18 Sim Brio Of course you did not like it she did not like it Tessa 9:22 I didn't like the second one Andy 9:23 I liked the first one I thought they were both the same level of of stupid fun Sam 9:29 Yeah, they were both bad oh they're not good let's not labor I just don't Tessa 9:33 particularly enjoy the second one I really enjoyed the first one but yeah, the the the movies have completely gaslight me on how to actually say that word Symbio I don't like how venom is portrayed in the third Spider Man movie one because I think there's too much going on in that movie, too. Then, um, is it the Ring of Power? Like he's Norman Bates. And so like to me, the way he's portrayed in that movie is more like He draws out the bad sides of you and he doesn't like a fully developed personality. And to me, that just doesn't make a lot of sense. It's also really unclear. We watched the editors cut wood, which I want Sam to talk about here in a second. And even from the editors clear cut, it's not very clear when Venom infected Peter, or if it just his presence, like makes Peter turn into a jerk, because you don't actually see the scene with venom like crawling up Peter, until like halfway through the movie after he's already been a jerk to MJ a couple of times, which feels like changing the character of Peter Parker to me. Like the editing in this movie is terrible. I don't know when things are supposed to happen. I'm not completely clear on how certain events follow other events. That's my opinion on why this movie is bad besides the random amnesia for Harry, because I feel like Sam Raimi was like, Whoa, we have too many storylines going on, we need to take one out for a while he's gonna have amnesia, so he doesn't keep attacking Peter for the first part of the movie. That's how I feel about this movie. I just feel like all of these characters are acting in ways they would never act in the comic books. Sam 11:08 Right? The characterization of Peters a problem. I think that was the main takeaway we had from that. Andy, what did you Andy 11:15 hold on? Hold on? Hold on. Like, either have you read the original Venom storyline where Peter becomes a jerk? Tessa 11:25 Yes, but it's after he's infected. Like it's not before which this movie implies that he starts becoming a jerk before, like peers acting in ways throughout this movie that is very inconsistent with the way that he has been characterized in the first two movies like Sam 11:42 he doesn't he doesn't ask. He knows that. Like, there's something clearly wrong with MJ. And Harry figures it out instantly. But like we get what over halfway through the movie before Peter finds out that MJ got cut from the show Tessa 11:58 right in venom is it hasn't even like, been part of the picture yet. Yeah. Like, it's not necessarily what they were trying to say. It's just the way the movies put together doesn't actually make sense. Andy 12:11 Okay, since I haven't seen the editors got because I stick with just whatever the original is. Maybe it's different. I don't know. But you know what? Yeah, no, that that is that is what Venom does. But the the symbiote draws out your anger and your emotions. Tessa 12:30 But he's also like a personality. Like, it's not just like, he tempts you by being like god awful. And then like, Andy 12:38 at the began, though, like, not in his original comic book thing, the pre 90s comic book stuff. Tessa 12:49 Yeah, I just, I don't know. Like there's just too much going on. In this movie. This movie felt like a 10 hour miniseries crammed into one movie, and I think that it really makes the plot and understanding how all these threads hook together or even like the events chronologically, it makes it very hard to follow. Sam 13:09 Sam Raimi is a trailblazer. And we know this back from Evil Dead on up. The reason he's a trailblazer was Spider Man three is here in 2022. We are plagued by 10 hour many series that should be two hour movies. Sam Raimi anticipated this and flipped it on its head by making a 10 hour miniseries a two hour movie. Congratulations to you. Tessa 13:43 Do you want to talk about the editor? Andy 13:45 And what does it change? Like, Sam 13:50 from what I understand? And so this is a exercise in if you have the time and opportunity to watch two different versions of a movie Back to back, which I don't that would be good. But I'm relying on kind of a an amalgamation of what several people have written. And so there is very little in the way of additions. The the major additions appear to be to one there is a scene involving Flint, his daughter and a sand castle. That's very emotionally moving. There is when Harry and Peter get involved in their second fight when Peter comes to the apartment he is just chill at the beginning like he that that that you know Peter as a jerk is what practices that fight like he doesn't get goaded by Harry for for a bit. But the big change with the editors cut is Moving scenes around to create a better flow. And so the biggest change with the editors cut is what I would like to call Peters descent into jerk attitude. It takes much longer in the editors cut and and the issue one of the issues with that is it makes for a smoother transition like you could watch it happen. There are actually a couple more scenes added of the suit, you know, like tempting Peter, and breathing on its own. But the idea here Evil Dead? Oh, yeah, definitely this is a big Nick Chronicon energy when he opens up the trunk and the suits just sitting in there. This is supposed to make sense out of the fact that that Peter is becoming a worse person. But unfortunately, as Tessa says, It associates that those worst qualities that Peter with just Peter not venom, and and it didn't make a lot of sense. To be fair, ramy Andy 16:05 also said like, I didn't have any appreciation for Venom as a character anyway. Right. Tessa 16:12 I think it's interesting, the idea of saying, Well, what if Peter really struggled with being important? Suddenly, right? Like, what if he really struggled with that? The problem is, is that the way the way it's characterized, it just doesn't, it doesn't eat really make sense for the character to me. And like you said, like, maybe there was a good way of doing this, I just don't see it in this particular movie. I do like some of the other strands of this movie a lot. I wish the CGI was a little better. We we watched Spider Man One and two, before we watch this, and both of those have special effects that for the most part hold up. I mean, they're a little dated, but for the most part, they hold up, this is a really bad green screen sequence at the very beginning, the first fight between Harry and and Peter, and it's, it's so bad, like, like bad to the point where I'm just like this couldn't have looked good at the time either did. Sam 17:03 Well, it's also really interesting, too, I think the 2000s whenever you're watching movies from the 2000s, that have a lot of computer generated effects. So we talked about parallel mothers last week, right. And so I thought for certain some of those scenes were green screened. And then I was defined, you know, shown that it very much wasn't by a character walking into the background, and working with things. And so Citizen Kane, among many things, is is known for its use of Wells has huge of deep focus, which is a technique. When you are shooting on film of making everything in the scene in focus, the foreground and the background. It's difficult to do, it's even more difficult to do in color, which is one of the reasons he shot in black and white. And so like when you are like raised on films, from the 80s, and back and then into the 90s, the 2000s were really weird time. Because you have you start to have no idea. Is something by the end of the decade. Is that practical? Or is that on a green screen? Because once we start shooting digitally, it's so much easier. And it's almost like I wonder if people who haven't gone back and watched older films that don't rely on this technology, if they if it bothers them if they notice, but it really bothers me. And so in a movie like this where it's bad green screen, at least I know it's bad green screen. I almost prefer that to not knowing the difference. Tessa 18:50 And there are practical effects in this film do like the suit breathing is clearly a practical effect. So Sam 18:55 and this is something that Sam Raimi is super good at right. We know that Andy 19:00 the Sandman effects though, like that was the big thing in in the time like what they talked about at Comic Con and stuff was like they develop the technology to make the Sandman look this way they developed all that. It's where most of the budget went. Tessa 19:15 The Sandman stuff still looks really good, right? Yeah, Sam 19:18 you know, is that and Okay, I'm sorry, film nerd question. Is the Sandman effect better than the cinematography trick that they invented in Evil Dead where like your the camera is your point of view rushing into something which is repeated in most of Amy's movies, and then I'm, I'm really blanking on who, who actually did the camera work, but he went to Raising Arizona with the Coen Brothers and repeated it in that which one is more impressive, this practical cinematography effect or The CGI Sandman work at the end of the day, which one would you pick? If you could only use one? Tessa 20:05 It's a good question. I do have two questions for you before I ask for your recommendation. One. Is it possible for Sam Raimi to make a movie without Bruce Campbell at least having a cameo in it? Because he's in all three of Spider Man, Andy 20:19 you know what the plan for him was? No, the plan for Bruce Campbell was that he was going to be Mysterio it was going to be revealed in like, the sixth movie that Mysterio had been there Tessa 20:37 the whole time. And just rude to Peter. Every time he showed up. Andy 20:41 I will say if you want to see Venom done, right. There's a short called Truth in journalism. That stars Ryan Quentin. From True Blood. Bing. Yeah, that is really good. It's from the same people who did the Punisher laundry day. Yeah, just look it up truth and journalism. It's part of the bootleg universe. It does a really good job of venom. Tessa 21:09 Is it possible for Sam Raimi to make a film without those Willis? No. Andy 21:14 Why would you Bruce Campbell, because you said Willis. Sorry, I just I just want to be sure it because it was somewhere in there. I want to know. Tessa 21:23 No, I said Bruce Campbell the first time before I Sam 21:26 cut to where I say right now. No. And why would you? Tessa 21:31 My second question is Will Bruce Campbell be in Dr. Strange and the multiverse of madness? Sam 21:39 If he's not? What's the point? Tessa 21:43 And then finally, what is your recommendation? What should people do with this movie? Well, Sam 21:49 so the thing is, right, so we're recording this what a day or two before we can actually finally watch this omachron movie. Spider Man. No way you Andy 22:01 guys we're gonna go see Batman this weekend. Sam 22:04 We are. We are but we're also finally looking forward to seeing Spider Man which will be available to people who weren't going to go to theaters in December. I mean, it made a billion dollars. So I guess, you know, just tells you how many how much money would it have made? But we watched this movie as part of that. We watched the entire trilogy. And overall, we really enjoyed it. I have no desire to go back and watch the Garfield movies at all. I've seen them. Jamie Foxx doing good work. Andrew Garfield. Fine. I like Emma Stone. I'm not going to go back and watch those movies. Period. I don't need to. I enjoyed these. And I think that even though this is clearly the weakest one of the bunch. It was worth it. I'm happy that we watched them. That's it. Recommend the trilogy. Oh, end. What do you have against Topher Grace, you Andy 23:14 know what? Topher Grace, perfectly fine actor, Sam 23:17 the film editor, the prequel trilogy that we should have had Andy 23:22 apparently one of the few times that I actually have a problem with casting based solely on physical ability. Venom, Eddie Brock, is is a man who can beat Spider Man by himself. Sometimes he is strong enough to just cut down trees with his arms. Alright, Thomas Haden Church should have played Eddie Brock. Yes, he makes an excellent Marco Flint. But he he is doper grace is too skinny. He should have been carnage he should have been Cassidy he just absolutely no, no, no. Oh my god. No. Sam 24:02 So this is this is the place to ask them. Now that they've taken a second crack at casting Venom I think I know what you're gonna say. But is this is his Behnam our new Venom more appropriate? Andy 24:18 Yes. Yes. Okay. All right. Perfect. No further questions, embed them says gay rights. Tessa 24:27 He does. He does. And I did appreciate that part of of the the second phenom movie. Sam 24:33 Have you seen anti? The new meme? The I support? The Punishers transgender girlfriend? No. Tessa 24:44 It's a good meme. It's very good meme. So this actually leads me right into segment two with Andy because Andy obviously obviously Spider Man is a franchise that you follow religiously. You've told us this before that you have been a fan of spider man for a long time. Spider Man movies tend to come out on or around your birthday and kind of a big thing for you used to before the pandemic ruined it. I have two questions for you. And then two questions for Sam. What other franchises do you follow religiously? And what franchises did you use to follow religiously and then stop following Andy 25:20 I have this number one one piece but absolutely just just one piece is my favorite franchise of all time. I will follow it till the day I die. Or until the day that it ends. Boom, Tessa 25:36 you're probably gonna die first at this point right? Andy 25:39 It is wrapping up that that is all I can say about the the current story arc it is wrapping up there there there is an end in sight. The other franchise that I follow religiously is a Fantasy franchise, written by Joe Abercrombie called The First Law world basically I it's it's good fantasy, and then the Gentleman Bastards by Scott Lynch. Those are pretty much the franchise's that I am so invested in that I'll just keep going to the day I die. Now franchises that I've stopped following that I used to follow religiously involves a lot of the CW shows, but a lot of that but more importantly I think I think this is really really truly indicative Doctor Who Tessa 26:29 Yes, both of those yes for me and Sam but explain why don't Andy 26:34 no doctor who just lost me at one point I really I really, I don't know why. Sometime during the capacity stretch. I just it stopped becoming important to me. I stopped trying to follow it. I just didn't care. I you know, I actually I think I might go back in and enjoy some I want to watch this new episode with John Barrowman. But yeah, I just to put it in in a phrase from my favorite comedy show currently. I just can't be Tessa 27:11 it's really sad when I franchise that you've been in love with for so long just starts to be bad because I think we both had that problem with the CW. We did that whole podcast series with you back on Geek 101 about the road to air over solve the shows leading up to Crisis on Infinite Earths. But after that, we just we didn't really have a taste for most of them anymore. We had fatigue and most of the shows weren't that great anymore. And Legends Andy 27:37 is the only is the only one that I want to watch. Tessa 27:42 Yeah, absolutely. Sam, same two questions. What franchises do you follow religiously? And which franchises did you use to follow religiously and then stop following? Sam 27:53 Okay, can I say two things really, really quickly. One. Joel Cohen was an assistant editor on the Evil Dead. That's the connection. I forgot. I can't believe Andy 28:04 it. The Cohens like went to high school with Grammy. Sam 28:09 Right, both Ramy. So I, the thing that got me is the Rameez and the Cohens are brothers that are two sets of brothers. And they know each other they collaborated on occasion, especially at the beginning of their careers. Barry Sonnenfeld was the cinematographer varies in Arizona that too. So I was finally watching. What is it the flight attendant? The Kaley Cuoco show that was on HBO max at launch. The actor who plays Missy is a main character on that show. And I was like, like, I know that person actor who Yes, Doctor Who. Yeah, to get back. Andy 28:46 I was just saying the other thing is also a lot of franchises have ended. I used to follow Game of Thrones. Sam 28:54 Well, no Game of Thrones hasn't ended, Andy. Tessa 28:57 The franchise of Game of Thrones has not ended. Sam 29:01 And when that man dies, or when Brandon Sanderson takes over Andy 29:05 like, like, like that, that's part of the problem here, right? Is it a franchise or a series? One piece is just a series. That's all it is. Tessa 29:12 It's so huge. It's almost its own franchise. Sam 29:16 To talk about No Game of Thrones is good to talk about as a franchise because it was a book series than it was a TV series. And now we've got the new show with Matt Smith. The spin off Yeah, right. So I mean, that one I think you could definitely call a franchise. Star Wars Star Wars. Tessa 29:33 Yeah, yeah, we will watch anything. That star was related. Yeah, these are real low lows on Star Wars and some real high highs. Sam 29:42 I wish I could quit you forgot Andy 29:44 about Star Wars as a franchise. No, no. Star Wars is actually another another franchise that I used to follow religiously and then I still haven't seen the mando season two. Yeah, and even then, though I only followed it religiously as far as the movies when Sam 30:00 I won't I won't give up on it. The walls Tessa 30:03 are much better than I believe in the Andy 30:05 PR thing I want to like like, like it is high on my list. high on my list. Sam 30:12 I you know, the thing about it is is like, I remember watching my VHS copy of the Empire recorded off of HBO. And it wasn't the hawth scenes, our pan and scan. They just took it and smushed it. Obi Wan Kenobi is 17 feet tall. And you can hardly see him because it's on hawth and they haven't like this is before they remastered it you can hardly see him. I read it the rise of Skywalker was it gonna make me stop? I don't know. They're gonna have that they'd have to really do something bad. Andy 30:55 What about bond? Ding ding ding dong. You know, Sam 30:59 I was trying to think of what franchise did I use to follow religiously and stopped? Star Wars is really the only one I follow religiously. I mean, I bond and Marvel are mean. Those are things I'm going to keep watching. Bond has dared me to stop multiple times. Especially this time though. Well, Andy 31:22 yeah. And then then we have things like video games, right? I Zelda religiously. Sam 31:28 We just bought a switch. I can't wait to start getting back on the Zelda train again. It's gonna be so much fun y'all. Oh Andy 31:34 my god. I'm like actually, like emotionally like happy for you like, Sam 31:38 I'm coming. Awesome with Mario Kart. I'm coming for you all once I figure out how to play that game again. You're all did, I will destroy you with Toad. Andy 31:51 Okay, here's a good example of a franchise that I don't follow religiously. But Nintendo. In general. I am a Nintendo fanboy. I will frickin talk your ears about off about Nintendo. Their their the horrifying things that they have done to be anti consumer. But the amazing things they've done to be pro consumer as well. I am a Nintendo Nerd. Like just this morning, the new generation of Pokemon was announced. I haven't played Pokemon. Any years I haven't I haven't really played Pokemon since Diamond and Pearl, the originals not the remix. That's right. It's been so long that they've done a remake for the switch now, but I still follow it. Because it's important to me. Tessa 32:34 So I asked these questions because I think it's interesting the way that certain franchises pretty much guarantee list generation and then certain ones. It's weird when you think about the ones where you're like, I'm gonna watch this or read it or play it forever. And then like, you look back and you're like, man, like, I have not done that. Sam 32:53 So tassa what franchises do you follow religiously? And which ones did you use to follow religiously? And Andy 33:04 I have a guess here. I have a guess. Okay. I think Tessa is super into super super into and this is this has been a secret to everybody, including you, Sam. She has kept this secret from her wife, Tessa 33:19 including myself, I think yes. Andy 33:22 is super super into the Dancing with the Stars universe. Tessa 33:28 The DSU Yes, the expanded universe are Sam 33:31 you are you guessing that of the two of us Tessa is the one most likely to have seen all season of Dancing with the Stars. Andy 33:39 And weirdly, the crossover crossover with the out in brown reverse. Sam 33:44 One of us has seen a season of Dancing with the Stars. Tessa 33:47 It's not it's not me. I feel like most of the franchises that I follow pretty religiously again, like defining franchises a certain way have been mentioned already. I really I hadn't even thought when I read this question about the CW but I'm really glad that you brought that up and because that was a big part of my TV watching for a long time. Like I watched every single show when it would come out like every night right for during the season, there will be a new episode of Arrow Flash Supergirl. Andy 34:15 Right. I remember being at a party with you at our friend Tia's house with both of you and me and Sarah saying like, Yeah, well, we really like this show. It's really hard to explain to people with called legends of tomorrow. And both of you just been like, yes. Tessa 34:32 I haven't seen an episode of a CW show besides legends of tomorrow, and probably like, since we did the road arrow verse like we immediately stopped watching a lot of them. I'm really glad you mentioned that doctor who is another one that I stopped, uh, probably around the same time you did, Andy. But I watch everything with Star Wars does everything Marvel does. I mean, I feel like that's true for a lot of people. I watch most of what the DC adaptation like I Andy 34:58 want to get into Doom Patrol because I've heard had nothing but good things about it. It is on my list I want to Tessa 35:03 Yeah, so there's there's those like big ones bond I hadn't actually watched but now I'm like firmly in the bond Camp STAR TREK Tessa. Oh, Star Trek. Star Trek. So fast Star Trek is the love of my life. Now I write here. Andy 35:21 I love Star Trek with Picard. No. Sam 35:26 He's old. I could take a Janeway. Tessa 35:30 No, you've seen Orange is the New Sam 35:31 Black. No, no, no. I could take bacula You know, I could take Herc. Tessa 35:38 All you have to do is Doc a couple times. Andy 35:42 Keep getting us off of talking about something that I think is near and dear to his heart, even more than the Dancing with the Stars universe. Tessa, what did you do this week? And why is it important to you? Sam 35:53 What have you done? What Tessa 35:54 have I done? So I've talked a lot about X Men over the entirety of this podcast. I used to obsessively read X Men comics, when I discovered them when I was 13. I went back and read like all of the uncanny X Men, everything involving certain characters spin off wise. And I still love it. But at some point I got, like, I'm probably like a couple years behind at this point, because I just got into other things that I had, I don't have time to follow all of these like different storylines. So I've just like, picked and read, like certain arcs, or certain characters that I thought were really interesting. But I haven't like kept up with the series as a whole, I'd love to change that. I don't know when that's gonna happen. But something happened a couple of weeks ago that allowed me to read a X Men event that I hadn't read before. And that was I was looking for something very specific to talk about in my dissertation. And somebody told me Hey, like, this particular event actually falls right into what you're talking about. So I went back and I read the event X Men age of X man, which is a x man, yes, a X Men age of x, man. Sam 37:09 What what is this event? Tessa 37:10 This was a 2019 crossover event for X Men comics. They basically wanted to reboot the franchise. And so they had a bunch of different lines going at this point, they had X Men gold, X Men blue and X Men red, which I haven't read. Most of that's because I have behind Andy 37:28 what is this Pokemon? Sam 37:30 These are the lines that I've read, Tessa 37:32 right? You've read more than I have when I stopped reading. Sam 37:35 This, I believe is right when I stopped reading, Tessa 37:40 so they got a franchise wide relaunch in 2018, they decided to relaunch the uncanny X Men. And they started with this arc called X Men disassembled, which culminated in the beginning of this event. So uncanny X Men one through 10 is the X Men disassembled arc, which basically involves the apparent death of a lot of the X Men, which is why it's called X when dis assembled, like basically, they get into a conflict with Nate Gray, who is an alternate universe version of Nathan summers. So cable, and he basically wants to make everybody on earth mutants, the X men tell him no, you can't do that. And he's like, Fine, I'm going to create my own little pocket utopia. And I'm going to take these X Men with me, takes them and puts them in this pocket utopia. What's really cool about it is the first and the last issues that start the event in any event are written by Zach Thompson and Lonnie Nadler. So the first issue is alpha. And the last issue is omega. There are several lines within the event. So there's the marvelous X Men, the next gen, the amazing Nightcrawler, the extremists prisoner X and Apocalypse In the extracts, each one of those lines has five issues in it. So you read alpha, and then the five issues of the line that you want. And then omega, what's really cool about it is that you you can read these lines in any order that you want, as long as you read alpha first and Omega last, and you don't have to read all of them for it to make sense. So you could be like, I'm a huge Nightcrawler fan. I just want to read the ones with Nightcrawler in it. And you know, read those two lines. And so which Sam 39:19 ones did you read? Tessa 39:20 I read all of them. Sam 39:22 I wrote how many is that in total? Tessa 39:25 Hold on. Let me do the math on that. You shouldn't ask me math questions on the podcast. You know, I'm bad at this 123456 So that's 32 issues. Sam 39:37 I believe your math is correct here. Yeah, that's a lot. One has not read all the things that have come before how how easy or difficult to visit to just jump into this title. Tessa 39:51 This is not a good starting point for new people know like you will not understand what's going on Sam 39:57 mansions still in like Central Parc Tessa 40:02 No one No, no. So this is not a good starting point. If you're not familiar with these characters, this event relies on you understanding who these characters are. And certain things from their past that they referred to, if you're an X Men fan who has a lot of history with these characters, and basically knows who these characters are like I am, but you didn't read X Men disassembled, you can actually read this event. But if you are a completely new reader, it would be difficult. So Sam 40:27 it doesn't rely on things like the Terrigen, or the Inhumans, or anything like that. No, this is like a entry point for somebody who doesn't know x man, right? If you was fine, Tessa 40:39 right? If you're not familiar with like, Bishop for an example, who's a pretty prominent character in this, then you're gonna have a really hard time. Sam 40:47 Understanding again, you said you read all of the these lines that go through the, the narrative, which ones did you like, Tessa 40:54 let me tell you a little bit about these lines first, and then I'm going to tell you because I want I want to pitch it because again, what I like about it is the flexibility, this idea that you don't have to read all of them, you can pick like which ones are most interesting to you and kind of start there. And they're all happening at the same time. So the events all culminate in omega, which is the last one. The basic premise of this is that Nate Gray, who as Laci has told me is a weird character, and I have to agree he comes to us from Age of Apocalypse, which is why this is called age of X man. So Nate gray goes by x man, that is his like, moniker as it were. He's very egotistical in that way. But he decides that this pocket utopian universe should be based on Professor X his dream of peace, but he interprets that dream by saying everyone should be a mutant, there should be no more humans. If everyone's have eaten, there won't be any like problem stretch, Sam 41:43 but okay, I feel like this was covered in a film. Right? Exactly. Tessa 41:47 None of the X Men who are there remember the other universe, they only have memories of this utopian universe. So he has like messed with like, their memories of what has happened. But they have like pretty much fulfilling lives like for the most part, like the X Men still exist, they now live in what is called the summers Institute, instead of the XX Institute, the Xavier Institute, but they've had to give up something for Utopia because Nate gray thinks that what has caused all the problems for the X Men is their pursuit of personal satisfaction and their really messed up personal relationships. So he has decided that in this utopia, you live for the community and personal relationships, close friendships, love children, that's all like out, you can't have them. So these are the different lines you have the marvelous X Men, which is the main X Men title. This one is mostly populated by Jean Grey storm Magneto x 23, Colossus, nature girl and Nightcrawler, sort of monitoring mutants, you know, preventing mutants to get out of control with natural disasters, recruiting people for the summers Institute, etc. Next Gen fellow students at the summers Institute. So it's very much in line of like the New Mutants or something like that. It's more of like a teenage perspective on this. The amazing Nightcrawler is about how Kurt in this universe is a movie star. Because Nate Gray has decided that the problem with Kurt in the other universe is that people hated him because of his appearance. So his contribution to the community would be like some actually being admired for his appearance. You also have the extremists because if you're going to forbid things like personal relationships, turns out you need police for this type of utopias. The extremists is Psylocke Iceman Northstar blob, gross, Jubilee and Moneda. Prisoner acts with what happens if you don't fit into the utopia because not all people can fit into this idea. They're either too dangerous, or they their powers don't work, or they're too messed up, Sam 43:51 or this is what dooms every place based Utopia from ever happening. Exactly. Tessa 43:56 Exactly. So this ship, Beast, Polaris, and Gabby are all and Danielle Moonstar. She's a big person in this as well. So they're all like imprisoned for re education in the community, but they're not going to be led out right like that's not how this actually works. We actually get the the main character this one was my favorite. And Bishop is the the main point of view from this and he gets thrown in there because he's having a sexual relationship with Jean Grey. They just erased Jean Gray's memory, and let her be an ex man, but bishop who is Black gets thrown in prison. So that should also tell you something about Nate gray and his problems with running this universe. And then also in a hilarious twist. The final line of this is Apocalypse and the extracts. In this universe. We have Apocalypse, and he is a love guru, because every Utopia needs a villain. So we get apocalypse is like the head of a love cold like a 60s like he's telling everybody how to have sex pocalypse is Charles Manson. Yeah, you pretty much exactly. So you'll appreciate this. I should have mentioned this as I was going through them, but the Alpha Omega were written by Lonnie Nadler Zack Thompson so was age of X Men the marvelous X Men. Next Gen was written by Ed Brisson and Marcus tau, the amazing Nightcrawler by Seanan McGuire who I know is one of your favorites Sam and one for Gary. Prisoner x by vita a Allah and German Peralta And Apocalypse In the extracts by Tim Seeley and Salva eSpin. It is so good. But my favorites are prisoner x, which is what I mainly wrote about in my dissertation. Again, if you don't know who some of these characters are, it's going to be really, really hard for you to follow some of these things. But I thought that that was so well written by the two of them. And it just had a lot to do with what happens if you win, like what's the cost of Utopia, and the cost is usually the people who can't do what you want them to do, right. It's also interesting to me that one, the uncanny X Men storyline keeps going while this crossover is happening, because there are those who are left behind you are trying to figure out what happened to the ones who entered the pocket universe. So you have like Wolverine, for example, and Cyclops trying to rescue Jean Grey from this universe. So you also get those who are left behind. The other thing I find it interesting is that these writers do a very good job of explaining why this utopia is bad from the perspective of the people who are sacrificed for this utopia through the prisoner X storyline. And some of the other storylines as well. Like for example, there's a huge leap great relationship between Laura and Gabby, who are are basically sisters in the main comics, and they don't even remember each other in this particular storylines. There's a lot of conflict that comes from that. Danny Moonstar, especially talks about being sacrificed for the happiness of others, and how problematic that is. But there are also characters who are legitimately doing better in this universe than they are on earth. Nightcrawler for an example, is getting a lot of praise and glory and happiness and personal satisfaction from his role in The Age of X man universe, then he would be on the main planet Earth, nature girl especially doesn't want to go back, she pleads with you know, them to let her stay in this universe. Magneto also, you know, sees this universe as a place where he could actually exist. So, you know, there's a great way in which this explains the problems with the utopia, but then also explains how it would work well for certain individuals. Sam 47:50 So I am, as you know, a casual fan of the X Men. Yes, I have read some comics. I have watched all the films as you know, let's pretend I haven't read everything immediately coming up to this, which I have. But for a casual fan like myself, would you recommend any of this series? And if so what? Tessa 48:18 Well, I would specifically recommend it to you, Sam, because I know you like X Men, and I know you like utopia. So I actually think he would find this all very interesting. But I would, I would recommend this. I think this was a really good event. Again, it's very strange because Nate gray is a strange character. And the concept in and of itself is strange, like the fact that he basically was just like, alright, well, if you won't let me do it here, I'm going to do it somewhere else by but I think that as long as you're familiar with these characters, you will find a lot of these ideas interesting. Again, I like the flexibility of it. I like that if you're just not feeling one line, you can read a different line or whatever like that. Or you could read the whole thing like I did. It's an interesting premise. Is it as good as a crossover event? Like say Age of Apocalypse, or like one of the classic ones? Probably not. But I really enjoyed it. And I wrote about it a lot in my dissertation. So I recommend that if any of these ideas seem interesting, and you are at least a casual X Men fan, you will probably enjoy this particular event. This actually made me want to go back though and like actually catch up though, so yeah, me. Pop culture productivity. Andy 49:34 Tesla. Quick question. Tessa 49:36 Yes. Yeah. Andy 49:37 Are you excited about X min? 97. Tessa 49:40 The Yeah, the television show. Yeah, I actually got Sam to agree to watch the animated series with me. Oh, in preparation. Oh, okay. In preparation because it's supposed to be like a season six basically. Right right. where I left off Andy 49:55 well have fun. That is some rough animation. I love it. I love it so much off animation with off model characters. Anyway, Sam 50:04 we we watch the first couple of seasons of The Simpsons. Andy 50:09 Yeah, it'll be okay. This is rougher. I'm not sure I agree with I don't know. Tessa 50:15 Anyway, I think that actually we did find our integral inadvertent theme, despite what we said earlier because I believe the light bringer is a Nintendo Switch game. Is that correct? End? Andy 50:28 Incorrect. Incorrect. Wrong. Correct. All right. Tessa 50:32 Tell me what the light bringer is. Andy 50:34 The light bringer is a fantasy novel series by Brent Weeks, which includes the books, the Black Prism, the Blinding Knife, the broken eye, the blood mirror and the burning white. So, no, it is a it is a fantasy novel series. Tessa 50:56 All right. What is it about? Andy 50:59 Essentially, the light bringer is set in a world where the magic is light based, and light spectrum based. So the description and I'm a sucker for any good magic magic system. The description is pretty much that, you know, our bodies convert matter into energy. And magic is the opposite of that it converts energy into matter. It is a world where people who can use magic can absorb usually one color on the spectrum of lights and turn it into a solid material that can do different things. And it is essentially just about the politicking in this world and you know, a bit of prophecies and foretelling and a lot of religion that's kind of messed up and kind of misinterpreted by mere humans. So it is a it's just a fun fantasy. If you if you if you enjoyed Game of Thrones think that but with less gratuitous blooded sex. Tessa 52:06 So not a dark fantasy, like a no Andy 52:08 no, this is this is more like a Mistborn. situation, Tessa 52:14 although Mistborn can be pretty dark. Andy 52:17 Yeah. And this can be dark to Tessa 52:20 just not like gratuitous. Right, right, right. Andy 52:23 And this is a series that I had started reading back in 2012 when the first book came out. Tessa 52:32 Alright, so have you finished it? Yes, Andy 52:34 yes, I have finished the final book in the series. It is the the series is ended, then in 2019. And I have now finished it. Tessa 52:43 Is this a series that you started and then stopped? Is that why this is a monkey? Yes, yes. So I maybe that was our inadvertent theme. Sam started and then stopped Spider Man three because of traumatic life events. I have been behind on X Men. And you started and stopped this series. Yes, I Andy 53:01 started out the series because I finished there we go. Sam 53:05 Congratulations, like it that Andy 53:08 I finished Book Two, the week it came out. And then I didn't pick it up when book three or book four or book five came out. So I redid the entire thing via audiobook. So thank you, audible for allowing me to do that. Why did you stop in the first place? It's this magic thing where you finish a book, and there's not more book. And you wait and you keep checking. And you keep updating yourself and finding out when when the next book comes out. And then it comes out? And you don't pick it up? Yeah, and time passes, and there. And then more time passes. And then you realize, oh, I really want to know the ending to this. So so that is why Tessa 53:57 Gotcha. So did you start at the beginning? Again? Yes, Andy 54:01 yes, i i went ahead went full force into the beginning. The first book is very good. There's a lot of mysteries and you know, things that you don't know, happening happening is very clearly planned out and very well planned out. Tessa 54:18 Did you pick up on anything in this read through that you didn't the first time around? Because that often happens to me when I restart things. Andy 54:27 A lot of this is about imperialism. And that was like a metaphor that I just wasn't ready to pick up on at all. You know, one of the countries that this book takes place in is a country where because of its place in a war, it decided that it chose the country is being governed governed by seven other countries and they just take turns governing it so so The people there feel no responsibility over their futures? No. There's no hope they just, you know, are subservient to one of seven kingdoms any, any any given year. Tessa 55:12 They take turns being colonizers. Andy 55:15 Yes, yes, they take turns being colonizers and because of how cruelly the different colonizers treat them. Resentment grows and inevitably force rises up. And yeah, it is. It is essentially, it is it is colonizer stuff. And it is fascinating to read, and to acknowledge the, you know, the modern day politics that are there. I really wish I could describe this book series better. But it's one of those things where you have to go in and just describe every little boring thing to describe the characters and how much fun I will say. As a former fat kid, it is great to have a fat kid who is the protagonist who doesn't just magically become unpack and doesn't magically, you know, recover from it when he starts to figure out that he might be a mythologized figure. It is it is great to have realistic things like that happen. Tessa 56:24 I was gonna ask you, is this more of an ensemble cast? Or is it more of a traditional fantasy hero's journey, Andy 56:31 it becomes more of an ensemble cast, it is balanced between two characters at the start, and then it goes to about four characters at the end. So I would say, really, if you if you are into Brandon Sanderson you, you will like this, you will like how well done, it's crafted. You will like how well thought out the world is. And you will like the cool little things that site that are sciency, right? You know, they they use the light spectrum. And people start fighting and stuff and then you find out that oh, there there's a group of magicians who can use a light spectrum that's not visible. Tessa 57:11 Yeah, that really reminds me of Mistborn a lot like Brandon Sanderson writes what I like to call hard fantasy, and that's kind of what this sounds like. Andy 57:19 Yeah, it's it's very, very good. I, I enjoyed it thoroughly. Please give it a shot. It's just start with the first book, The Black Prism. It's, it's a lot of fun, and a lot of mystery. Tessa 57:31 How many books are there? You might have said, I just five, five. Okay. All right. Andy 57:35 And it's done. It is done. This is not a game of thrones situation where you'll be waiting and wait and wait and wait and wait. Tessa 57:42 Where the actual refusal of the author to finish it is actually causing people to forget that it exists. Andy 57:49 Oh, it's a very fun little power fantasy that that there is there is that part. Tessa 57:56 All right, Sam, what are we up to for the next two weeks? Sam 58:01 Okay, you're gonna throw to me. All right. So exciting stuff. A couple of weeks from now, it's going to be Oscar time. Which means I mean, I guess depending on your point of view, it's been Oscar time for a while now since the white nominations were announced. So the white whale for us that we have been chasing is to watch all the Oscar nominees and we're going to come really, really close this year. And to celebrate. We're going to take the next two weeks to do a nother limited series. We are going to be joined by friends of the pod, Megan and Jack and we're going to run through over the course of the next two weeks. All of the long form feature Oscar nominations. It's going to be a good time. Lots of movies, good stuff. Tessa 58:56 avid fans of the Oscars and movie making in general I think Jack has seen probably more of these movies than I ever have. Sam 59:07 This time features features a film based on a story by future Nobel Prize winner Haruki Murakami, Tessa 59:16 you keep dreaming that dream Sam? Sam 59:18 Dylan can win. And he's not even a literature writer. I just got to feel like it's coming at some point. Tessa 59:27 All right. Where can people find you Andy? Andy 59:31 You can find me online on Twitter at Andy noted and also you can find me on not the next two episodes because it is Oscar time and I don't care. Tessa 59:43 When I asked where can people find you? What I meant was for you to give your home address to the hundreds and hundreds of listeners that we have so they can come to you directly. Yo box 342 Andy 59:55 Stillwater, Oklahoma 7407 Five Tessa 1:00:00 There you go send your question. Oscars Yeah, exactly. pump up the volume. I was gonna say is this a pump up the volume where we send all their stuff to the PO Box? Yep, exactly. Anyway, Sam, where can people find you online and then their headphones. Sam 1:00:21 You can find me on Twitter at se underscore Morris nine. Tessa 1:00:26 You can find me on Twitter at Swehla. Tessa Swehla is spelled SW e HLA. You can also find me on my other podcast nanny OGS book club where Nigel and I are going through all 41 of Terry Pratchett's Discworld series. I believe that when this one is released, we will have just released small Gods the week before which is episode 12. You can find that on Twitter at nannies bookclub. and on Instagram at nanny ox book club. Send us your thoughts about the monkeys we talked about today? Or is there anything that you have started and stopped and then never gotten back to again or are intending on getting back to what pop culture you've crossed off your list lately what you'd like for us to talk about on future episodes or anything else that comes to mind? Find us on Twitter and Instagram at monkey backlog? Email us at monkey off my backlog@gmail.com Please rate review and subscribe on iTunes. Follow us on Stitcher Amazon podcasts, Google podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Get that monkey off your back. Hey, we did a Transcribed by https://otter.ai