Sam 0:18 Welcome to monkey off my backlog the podcast where we exercise our pop culture demons by tackling our media to do list one week at a time. I'm your host Sam and with me is my co host Tessa as well as Nigel Annalise. Alright, so let's just get right back to the countdown. Here we are. Pretty much right smack in the middle of the list these these movies aren't there are bad I mean, I guess they're kind of good. Again, math. So at number 15, we have 1980 threes. octo Kitty, true story. I had a friend. We we went through the bachelor's program and the master's program and English together. And he got married between the two. And his wife gave him one of the early bond box sets. And she This is true. She taped a piece of paper over the word policy and replaced with kitty. So his version of it is actually octo kitty. And that is a true story. It's funny 1983 is Octopussy. The one we're an incident at a circus threatens to destroy the delicate geopolitical ecosystem of the 1980s Cold War era landscape and mech Afghanistan and even more unstable place. No, wait, that last part can't be right. Tessa 1:44 But it is how do we feel about Octopussy? Unknown Speaker 1:48 So I have this movie as number 15 number 16. So we're pretty much on par with it. This movie is much better than the fake Bond movie that came out the same year. Never Say Never again, that movie sucks. We're not discussing that on this podcast, but I have feelings. So I think and I said this when I watched it, but now I don't remember why that this is an Indiana Jones sequel. James Bond jumps from a horse to a plane. And this movie came out two years after Indiana Jones, which is back to what I was saying what we were saying earlier with Moonraker coming out two years after Star Wars. Sam 2:30 Yes. So the the big thing about that right is that they got George MacDonald Frazier, who wrote the Flashman books which are very much of the same ilk as the Indiana Jones movies to take the initial pass at the script, which originally included a motorcycle race with a duel to the death sidecar race and double oh seven trapped in a cage with an angry gorilla so there's a reason you see that connection? Absolutely. Unknown Speaker 2:56 Yeah, I do think at this point in the Bond movies and in my notes that I'm like over the Soviet plotlines so it kind of you know just from my being tired of it is not higher on the list. The movie is pretty wild, but in a way where it doesn't make it the worst because I can look at it from that. Okay, this is supposed to be a little ridiculous lens. But yeah, I'm just over the Soviet bad guy plotlines at this point. Unknown Speaker 3:24 I didn't particularly care for this one. I think it's maybe around 16 I yeah, like the lease was saying like the whole I mean, even from the beginning, though whole Soviet plotline. And I understand cold war propaganda. Like when I explain when we're talking about like propaganda. I'm like, Oh, you know, James Bond is an example of Cold War era propaganda. And people are really surprised. Well, some people are really surprised like, why I'm like, is it not suspicious to you that like all of the early bond villains are Russian or like, you know, in the case of Drax in the Moonraker book like an ex Nazi you know, so I'm worried by it Yeah, I'm a bit bored by it and this one for me as well just feels like a bunch of action set pieces that are really thinly put together it you know, in like the most convoluted or not no hackneyed isn't the word, haphazard. That's the word I'm looking for the most like convoluted haphazard way possible. They're like Well, how do we get to the next you know, action set piece which that's the thing you see an awful lot what more modern action films are spectacle is overtaken script. But it's weird to see in this one because like, yeah, bond has always had really big set pieces. But early Bond had a way of getting to them where it at least felt, for the most part that it makes sense within the world of the text or with within the world of the film. And this one Kind of doesn't. Does that make sense? Unknown Speaker 5:02 Yeah, yes. Sam 5:04 It's really interesting to you yeah, it's really interesting when you talk about the Soviet of it of Soviet pneus of it all because of course Ian Fleming was a spy himself or at the very least spy adjacent and you know was heavily invested in In Cold War, spy craft rhetoric politics. And his novels are too and and something that that the producers at Eon constantly did was downplayed it. And so, there are very few times in the bond franchise where we have to stare directly at the Cold War. You know, of course, here in America, we kind of see it as more like a, you know, a jingoistic us versus them situation. And so there's that, you know, UK intervention, which is very interesting. But one of the other things that I find fascinating about Octopussy in particular, is you know, this is the beginning of a period of, you know, of Thatcher's Britain along with Reagan's America, and it's the detente with with with Thatcher and Reagan, and Gorbachev. And so this is a film that is super uncomfortable to watch now, because like many of the others that will come later on this list. It just predicts some stuff with some uncanny ability like, the whole Afghanistan thing is super uncomfortable this year to watch. And you know, it's it's a it's an okay film, but it's like a piece of political, a piece of popular culture created by a real political reality. It is fascinating, but and now for something completely different Tessa? Oh, Unknown Speaker 6:54 can I just know just on the politics of that it's like doubly uncomfortable when you think about like, Reagan's America, and Thatcher's Britain, because as someone who lives in Ireland, where it's like, this is a country, which is not the one I live in, but it's having like a profound effect on the politics within the island of Ireland, especially like, in the north and stuff. So it's really weird to view this as a piece of like propaganda from that time, especially when you're like, I want to sit down and enjoy a film. I'm thinking, yeah, I'm thinking of that bit from the Eric Andre show, which I will put here in the chat. But it's like, everyone has this idea of Margaret Thatcher being like an effective leader and stuff. And she's really she's just a horrible, horrible person. I feel like there's not a lot of people that would disagree with that sentiment, but it's weird. Seeing propaganda, which promotes that kind of economic, fiscal and foreign policy. Sam 7:53 Are you familiar with the Pink Floyd song, the Fletcher Memorial home? No, for incurable tyrants and kings, you should check it out. Now, something completely different. I really want to do my now for something completely different. Go ahead. Unknown Speaker 8:11 And please, very much now for Unknown Speaker 8:14 the sale were derailed Unknown Speaker 8:18 as someone who listened to ABC Radio with my mom, like, I appreciate your and now for something completely different. I watched this movie like the same week that Biden had announced that we are withdrawing from Afghanistan. So it was kind of funny to and I say, I don't mean funny Haha, but like my friend was, there was a lot of discourse on the internet that week about like, who is allowed to comment on Afghanistan and who's not like, in a way where it's like, obviously, you can have an opinion on something if you want to, but my friend joked that I was watching this movie so that I was allowed to discuss Afghanistan afterwards. And I thought that was very funny. Sam 9:06 Are we ready? Can it do it? Tessa 9:09 Yes, you can. Unknown Speaker 9:11 complete different Sam 9:14 for something completely different. Tessa 9:17 So actually, to return to what he's at now. All of us, actually to go to go way back to something you said at the beginning of this conversation. The the really funny thing about this is that all the Cold War stuff is like you said, it gets kind of tiring after a while, but it does make I think it's licensed to kill, where blonde encounters like a group of villains that have no idea who he is. And then like the when the Russians hear about it, they're just like, Oh, yeah, that's James Bond. I laughed so hard, because I was like, Yeah, like they've been so entangled in the Soviet stuff for so long that of course, the Soviets would completely know who Bond was, but like, nobody else does. Like everyone. When else is like who is this person, but like the Soviets totally know who he is. And I found that funny. The one redeeming thing about Octopussy that I absolutely love is the actual Octopussy gang. Like mod Adams playing Octopussy and her like all female, like almost Amazonian group of assassins and thieves. I, I love that. And this is this is one of those moments and there'll be another one. Specifically later on in a different film we're going to talk about where I'm just like, I want a movie about this, like I don't want Octopussy the Bond movie, but I do want Octopussy the film about a all female group of assassins and thieves that live on an island and like do political stuff like that, to me was the one great part about this film and they kind of wasted it we got a little bit of a joke when q lands on the island and all these women are like, oh, like happy to see him and that's really funny. But like, I I will say that that felt like a missed opportunity. Like I really wanted to see more of that particular part of the movie and less of the Soviet back and forth. Unknown Speaker 11:09 Dustin Llewellyn actually said this was his favorite to act and because he had gotten the most to do in the movie, so that is fun, that there's more Q. All right. So Sam 11:19 next on our list. No, you have to say yes. I, what do I have to say? Unknown Speaker 11:27 I don't know sound What do you have to say? Sam 11:30 All right, number 14, we have 1960 threes From Russia with love. The one where bond is catfished Wait, hold on. I mean, honey trapped. Tessa 11:41 I love her. I love that we were just talking about the Soviet pneus of these movies. And then we go to like the most Soviet of the movies. But to be fair, it was the second one. Unknown Speaker 11:51 I think this one is much more informed by how like playing the video game because I definitely saw this one after I played the video game. As a young child. You know, like I have more clear memories I think of bits have happened in the video game that I do with the film, which I watched more recently because they're just stuck in my head, you know, like, bit where you go in and jet packs or a sewer and such. I think it's really, I can't get over how problematic it is in its depiction of Romani people. Tessa 12:26 Yes. Where it's like, Unknown Speaker 12:29 like, this is another thing. Where I'm just like, this is kind of sinking it for me. Otherwise, the film is a bit boring. But it's like, with bond, you can have a boring film if the action is kind of good. And like this is the film with like the knives in the shoe, right? Yeah. Yeah, like that's a fun, interesting bit. But like largely, it's kind of boring, and then it's weighed down by like, problematic representation. So this is like, quite far down on my list actually. I don't really have an awful lot to say over them. I didn't like this one. Unknown Speaker 13:06 And this one is actually a lot higher on my list. It's number eight. I very much love Rosa club and her poison knife shooter. She's one of my favorite henchmen of all bonds. I never was a big Austin Powers fan, but I do think this is one of the funnier like she's one of the funnier things that they parodied for that I love the opening where you think bond is dead but then you realize it's like a Spectre training program. I don't really have that much else to say on it, but I I did in my reading, I learned that the scene where bond meets Tatiana romanova is the scene that they test all potential bond actors with because they say that that is that scene helps them know if the bond is a band potential bond actor is going to work out that they learn everything that they have to learn from that scene so I just would love to see like a supercut of all of the bond actors Tessa 14:06 doing that scene all the demos and auditions Yeah, that would be fun. Unknown Speaker 14:11 I think I haven't looked for it so it could exist for all I know Tessa 14:14 the only thing that I like clearly remember about this movie besides the knife in the shoe, the Rosa club knife in the shoe is the train sequences. I do think that those are some really cool action. I mean, this is before we were doing like those hallway fights right that we that right now we've Daredevil. Yeah. Yeah, and so the the See, I love Daredevil. Yeah, so the scene in the train kind of, to me, it seems almost innovative because it was before we had started doing fight scenes like that. And obviously the early bond fight scenes are not really you know, something to write home about. They're definitely informed by their time, but I just found that to be fascinating. It's always something I think of when I think of the film. Sam 15:00 This is one of the films that is closest to the novel again they soften the direct Russia connection in terms of the the politics of the Cold War, in terms of Fleming had originally written the ending is different because in the novel it is a cliffhanger because she gets that knife in Blofeld is credited with a question mark in the credits and the last thing I'll say back to back to Nigel's point not for the reason that was articulated but that girl fight scene as well as the train combat sequence as well as the honeytrap love scene. We're in danger of being censored so shocking racy Unknown Speaker 15:52 I think as well it's just it's interesting because this is the second Bond film they made and like when you watch dr know and then you watch from Russia with Love like fairly close after you you notice that like in the first two films we're batting to four oh on women breaking into bonds house with the intent to seduce him like it happens in Dr know as well it's a really weird thing when you consider like how we perceive bond today where he's okay so like I'm, I really do not want to excuse any of bonds behavior around women. I think he is a misogynist. Sorry, Tessa, but I think he's much more timid and how he's portrayed in the like earlier films. Sam 16:33 We're not gonna let Tessa respond. I know for something different Well, well, well, we'll talk about that in the next segment where it most logically lies. So I had a train of thought okay, so Tessa and I kind of watched these in fits and starts I think maybe From Russia with Love we even watched in the before times like it was a while ago. But moving from that to number 13 there are two movies that I had not seen prior to Tessa as I watch this. The first one was octopus the and the second one was at number 13 1985 of View to a Kill the one where the Bond villain causes our current processor shortage by according to my notes, the exact same thing that Lex Luthor does in the 1978 Richard Donner, Superman. Yeah, that sounds about right. Tessa 17:31 I'd like to point out that when we watch this, there was an actual processor card shortage in Silicon Valley. There still is and like, it was very weird watching this movie and being like, yeah, that's actually what happened. But let's start with you, Elise. Besides the wonderful Duran Duran song, what do you think of a View to a Kill? Unknown Speaker 17:49 I have this at number 14 on my list. So pretty close to you guys. Roger Moore snowboarding with California girls playing in the background in a wild mood back. Soren and Mayday are very chaotic villains, but I don't hate them. Even though maxeon is not my favorite. I think the failed stereotype experiment making him quote unquote psycho a word I don't like to use is an origin story. If I ever heard one. I did watch this movie and think that maybe destroying Silicon Valley is not the worst idea that was ever created. Tanya Roberts gets a lot of flack for her acting in this movie, but I will blame direction and script on that a little bit too. I do think that it's cool that after this movie, Tanya Roberts realized that she should be doing comedy and I feel like we've all benefited from that. I really enjoyed her in that 70 show. There is a scene in this movie towards I don't remember if it is in the middle or towards the end that like firetruck chasing. That is like the blurriness, cinematography and all of James Bond. I can't think it was on purpose it is it's just a sore horn. Like I also feel like I could have filmed it better and I'm horrible at filming. It's so blurry. And I also apologies to Tanya Roberts. She's not believable as a geologist. Sam 19:24 Is she better or worse than Christmas? Unknown Speaker 19:28 I have comments on that later. Okay, Sam 19:30 I just really quick two things. And this is the sum total of my comments on this film that the original plot was him pulling down Halley's Comet instead of doing the San Andreas Fault. And that's an AI. That is not not awesome. I really wish they had done that. Or try. I don't know what to say about that. Unknown Speaker 19:51 Maybe the next bond will do that. Sam 19:54 I'd say they go to space, but they've already done that. The other the other thing is that Oh god, there's another thing. And it was really the one that I wanted to say. Unknown Speaker 20:05 Is it something completely different? No, no, it's Sam 20:08 on topic. Oh, that's really Unknown Speaker 20:13 really as I got my something different references wrong earlier and that it's from Rocky and Bullwinkle. Watch Sam 20:19 me pull a rabbit out of my hat. I don't remember what the other thing was, and it's the best part. Tessa 20:26 Well, let's let Nigel talk about Oh, her feelings about this movie. And maybe you'll remember. Unknown Speaker 20:31 No, no, no. I, yeah, a lot of my a lot of my frustration with this film comes from the fact that it's not intentionally a commentary on Silicon Valley. You know, like Elise was saying, it wouldn't be the worst thing if they destroyed Silicon Valley. But it's not like it's like the one of my main problems with bond does a series is that it like dances around really big geopolitical issues, or, like, technological issues and things like that, like, I'm going to keep bringing up Spectre, but like, in the biggest way possible before I can, like, get into Spectre, but the whole, like, automation of you know, the military industrial complex and stuff where it's like, it doesn't really engage with that, and I feel like this one doesn't engage with, you know, like, any kind of geological thing where it's like, you know, you could even have done bonds does climate change in this one, instead of like Quantum of Solace, but also like, you know, the snow burning scene is weird bond moring an airship to the Golden Gate Bridge. It's like okay, I'm like and then at the end we're bond gets like wonderful. What's the metal that go gold tries to give him the Order of Lenin I just think that's really like hilarious especially after our commentary on like the Soviet ness of it where it's just like you know what, you can be like an honorary Russian now. Tessa 22:02 I mean, why not? At this point he's been fighting them for so long Sam 22:06 called a time Unknown Speaker 22:07 I this is bond enemies, two lovers, but with the Soviet. I Tessa 22:14 love Grace Jones so much in this movie, I think that Christopher Walken is also a great Bond villain, but Grace Jones really steals the show, and I love that she, she just looks I mean, Grace Jones is such a unique looking beautiful person, but I love that she's in this and she's so different from the usual type of bond girls and the way that they look and she's so athletic, and she's so like androgynous in some ways, and she's gorgeous. She herself has said that she thinks that the bond franchise is actually really conservative, which I find hilarious, but she, she just eats up every single scene that she's in, in this movie, and that one that pushed it up for me in its rankings. But yeah, there are definitely some moments where it's like, okay, like the film in the film, I think could have been about half an hour shorter and would have been probably better. Sam 23:09 So I remembered the other thing. So it's the snowboarding scene right? with the with the Beach Boys and how that's I To me that is a very obviously a take on the Beatle song back in the USSR which takes you know, the Beach Boys and inverts it so like I thought that was really clever. I liked it too. Yeah, so now we are to the point in our list number 12 up these are our good bonds we've done the bad we've done the math. Here's the good stuff, starting with Oh gee 1962 doctor know the one where the villain uses a nuclear reactor pool to power a radio jammer which feels like overkill Unknown Speaker 23:58 Yeah, that should be that should be his name Dr. overkill. I quite enjoyed this especially for like our first adding for bond like I mentioned before in terms of the theme like it starts off really really wacky, and kind of doesn't light up like for me one of the scariest villains is in Doctor No, it's not Doctor No, it's the spider that's in Doctor No, because that's kind of terrifying. But but it's also I think it's hilarious. We're like Doctor No, he's meant to be this menacing. Like, you know, he's hiding out. He's building his radio jammer, but it's like, he knocks out bond with poison gas and then politely talks him into bed. Unknown Speaker 24:47 It's like, I think out of all of the early Bond films, with the exception of one which I'll bring up when we get to it, this one really is able to stick the landing between this is a spy film and this is a comedy film where it's like just a bunch of wacky high jinks that are happening I think it's able to thread that so much better than a lot of bond which is really weird because all of the bad ones come after Sam 25:17 you sound like you don't agree with me so no i do i just i need to really I need to interject really quickly because as you know, all of the bond actors have been down to clown when it comes to stunts. But this This movie has a special place and Nigel you've led me in so this is this is part one of a three part podcast within a podcast called bond actors in peril. Of course, Sean Connery as many people are terrified of spiders, as he is right to be. And so they, they put this piece of glass between him and the spider, and it wasn't good enough so they had to like put the stunt man in parallel with an actual spider. And this has been an episode of bond actors in peril. Thank you. Please continue. Unknown Speaker 26:03 So Dr. Noah is pretty high on my list. It's number six. I really like honey writer a lot. I feel and coral I think coral is a fun character. I feel like it often gets glossed over that people people forget the scene where honey Ryder explains to James Bond how she had killed her rapist and I feel like that was just an interesting thing to include. But that comes back later to there's like a really rapey like Doctor No comment when they take honey rider away and he's like I'm sure the guards will abuse her and that it feels really gross and doesn't I don't know that that needed to be said I do love any Bond movie that has Felix Leiter in it. I am a huge Felix fan I that will make me more invested in any bond. I mean, as Nigel said this is like the first one it just feels very classic to me You know, it's also different because I don't think that they I feel like From Russia with love and onward had a more bond formula than this one kind of had does its own thing. One thing I will say is there's definitely some Orientalism and racism because Dr. Know is half Chinese and he's played by a Jewish Canadian man which is a choice. But um, overall I really liked this movie and even though there are definitely some problematic aspects to it, Tessa 27:35 and the some of the Jamaican scenes leave a little to be desired especially because all of the black people that helped him die in this movie, which is Unknown Speaker 27:44 Yeah, it's a coral dying to and the the unnamed ones. Yeah, Tessa 27:49 I agree though, that, first of all, Felix Leiter. I didn't I had no idea that he was in the first Bond movie like I thought he was like a later edition. I mean, Felix Leiter predates q in this series like which is interesting. But Unknown Speaker 28:06 lighter, my beloved. Tessa 28:09 Also, I agree with you at least I like the fact that there I mean, as much as I like the tropes, and as much as I find them comforting It is really interesting to see a Bond film that sort of predates a lot of the formula that we see later. Sam 28:25 Yeah, so real quick, novel check in time. kworld does not die and shows up in another novel. We do get introduced to wait hold on I'm trying to think I don't think Felix Leiter is in Doctor No the novel. The reason I think that is living Let Die is an earlier novel. And that's the one where Felix gets chopped. So yeah, anyway, Unknown Speaker 28:54 I want to I want to just put down at this stage a pin which I will pick up later. Alright, let's say the words. I will just say the words no time to die. I will leave it at that. Sam 29:07 Okay, Alrighty then. Number 11. The year I graduated from high school, Tomorrow Never Dies from 1997 the one where Richard Branson sells out to China. So if you're still hearing this podcast hooray we did it. Unknown Speaker 29:33 Tomorrow number died, never dies is number 13 on my list. I really liked the plot. The whole cable news aspect feels really resident especially since cable news has only gotten bigger since 1997. Le plot two so one trope movie trope that I absolutely adore is someone controlling two sides to make them fight. each other I love it x men first class. The sum of all fears the jack Ryan novel and movie and the Star Wars prequel trilogy are things I genuinely love. Unknown Speaker 30:13 Yeah. GI Joe film. Oh, I Unknown Speaker 30:16 haven't seen that. But I believe you. That's just I love the idea of someone trying to trick people into war only in a movie. I don't like that in real life. Jonathan price is a really good Bond villain. I think. I laughed hysterically. Of course, Bond had had sex with his wife previously. Michelle Yeoh is my queen and I love her as Wei Lin. But I do think that they purposely didn't use her as much as they could have because she would have stolen this movie. Tessa 30:48 It's true. In fact, she was accused by Jackie Chan of stealing scenes from him when they started movies together. So it's true. It's really hard to outshine Michelle Yeoh. Unknown Speaker 31:00 Yeah, this one like feels like the start and end of something like this is the first one that was made after Albert broccoli died you know it feels like a bit of a handing over like it's still with his wife and stuff, but it feels I don't know like I just get the vibe from it even if it's not like explicitly done out in the narrative being like, this is a tribute to Kobe broccoli. But yeah, this this whole film, like it's not the most like complex of plots and stuff, but it's the one of the more globe trotting plots You know, this is like they're going absolutely everywhere in the sun. Unlike like you said, Jonathan price is a pretty good villain. I mean, I didn't see this film until after I saw Game of Thrones. So like, in my head, he's still the High Sparrow. Actually no, I hadn't seen this film until after I saw the two Pope's as well. So Oh, yeah, my engagement with Jonathan Pryce his game of like the high Spyro and Game of Thrones, the Pope, and then the villain and Tomorrow Never Dies. That's like, yeah, I Unknown Speaker 32:07 think I knew him from this first. Unknown Speaker 32:09 Yeah, and then when you consider it's like how many of the Pierce Brosnan films have like die or kill in the title? It's just actually I think it's only two now now that I think about it yeah, yeah. But it's weird that like they're they're in the titles It feels like there's more when you look at like, how disparate all the other titles are. Where you have Tomorrow Never Dies on Die Another Day, which is, you know, Die Another Day, which is not tomorrow. Tessa 32:35 Don't die today or tomorrow, but another day, Sam 32:39 so just remember tomorrow never knows. And Tomorrow Never Dies. So it doesn't know anything. But it is also immortal. And that's got to be the worst. Like Baron Unknown Speaker 32:53 Samedi. It is a mortal Unknown Speaker 32:55 that's my favorite Beatle song so I'm very happy right now Sam 32:58 I can you say that backwards? Happy? Unknown Speaker 33:01 No. Not even in the tray. Tessa 33:05 I am kind of ambivalent about Pierce Brosnan as bond, which we'll talk about later. But I will say the one thing that he does really well that none of the other bonds quite seem to do is to I mean, let's be honest, a lot of bond girls die in in James Bond films. And we've talked a little bit about how like for an example they've ignored that in some cases like the On Her Majesty's Secret Service to Diamonds Are Forever. Pierce Brosnan does a really good job that when a blonde girl dies, he makes this acting choice where he genuinely emote sadness even if like the relationship they had wasn't like a deep relationship. But even when it was he does a good job of just sort of promoting that and so when Terry hatchers character dies in this there's this like really brief scene like they don't linger on it and they don't really come back to talk about it all that much. But like he there's this really kind of touching moment where he like pulls her into his or her body into his arms and just kind of sits there for a moment and I appreciated that as an acting choice because I think that some of the other films gloss a little bit too quickly over the death of like bond girls and the fact that it's their proximity to him that kills them a lot of times and so I I do appreciate that about Pierce Brosnan is that he makes this choice to kind of sit there for a moment. Sam 34:26 This narrative that that Hollywood is a or filmmaking in general a big budget filmmaking because of course, Eon productions is not Hollywood. But this idea that any of this is a meritocracy is absurd. And and this is one of those stories that of course, makes your head spin. So before price, won the roll. It was out to Anthony Hopkins, who chose to do the Zorro movie instead. What Zorro movie, the one that the guy who directed GoldenEye was doing so they hired A new director Spottiswoode, whose big claim to fame was Air America, which was a Mel Gibson movie. That's fine. Now, the reason this movie seems a little bit weird from a writing perspective is that they got six different people to take a crack at it at the same time, including Tom ropa. Lu ski, whose big credit was a sequel to Look who's talking and I don't mean Look who's talking to I mean, the third one. Also, Leslie Dixon is talking to Mrs. Doubtfire. And possibly the one that makes the most sense. Nicholas Meyer, who wrote the Wrath of Khan, and then some cheese, come on, man. But Unknown Speaker 35:52 so like, what? I am a Nicholas Meyer Stan, not as a person, I don't know anything about him. I just enjoy a lot of his movies. And they said that he like had this idea that was so horrible for bond that they basically just like laughed him out of the writers room. So I don't think any of his ideas actually got into the film. Sam 36:17 It's just, you know, it's this is before the relationship with Purvis and Wade that will take us all the way through the series. Really cave and boy ages grasp at some straws in terms of writing, after, you know, when my bombs not involved, when purpose and weight are not involved. There's just chaos. So, Tessa, I'm gonna turn to you, how did you get involved in the James Bond of at all, Tessa 36:43 this is a very boring story, I'm just gonna warn you right now. So I saw Casino Royale when it came out. That was the first film I'd ever seen that was a Bond film, mainly because my parents, as I have mentioned on this show before, are very conservative and bond is not in alignment with their values. Let's just say that. So I saw my first bond at a fairly late age. I didn't know anything about bond when I went into it. And I, but I remember really loving it as an action movie. And we'll talk about Casino Royale later. But I watched all of the Daniel Craig ones. And then I remember going back and seeing a couple of the Sean Connery ones, but it didn't quite clicked like, to me, it didn't click what Bond was exactly, because I just wasn't familiar with the cultural discourse around it. And I wasn't really familiar with what the films were like their sensibility. And so to me, it was weird seeing like, the Sean Connery films after the Daniel Craig ones. I saw a couple I did see the Timothy Dalton film the living daylights and I remember really liking it. And that kind of inspired me to go back and rewatch the series from beginning to end, which is the impetus for this particular podcast, Sam 38:03 as well as my constantly badgering you, right? We're gonna stay with you on this one, you get to lead us off on another important segment. Bond girls. Tessa 38:15 Okay, so it's really hard for me to talk about my favorite bond girls because I love bond girls, I'm just gonna put that out right now. I just love them so much, there are very few that I think are not good in the role of Bond girl. And I, I'm just gonna say this, there is misogyny in the James Bond series, there are relationships that I think are kind of problematic, especially Pussy Galore, which we will talk about, as well. But I think for the most part, that bond to me actually comes across as more of like someone who really likes women and who really likes sex, then someone who's misogynistic, and I really appreciate that a lot of the women a lot of the bond women also really like sex. And so I I enjoy that aspect. Even in like the earlier films, you get a lot of these bond girls who are really almost coming more on to him than anything else. And I think that a lot of people when they say that these films are or his relationship with women is misogynist. What they mean is that the film is male gaze at which it is like the the Bond films do employ the male gaze quite a bit, especially when it comes to bond girls in bikinis. But I actually think that to assume that he's constantly exploiting women is to assume that those women don't enjoy sex, which I think is really problematic of a position to take. So that's just what I'm going to say about the bond girls. I just love bond girls, I think they're great, but here are some of my favorites. I will give you the top bar because it was very, very hard for me to narrow this down. So at number four, I have Diana Rigg from On Her Majesty's Secret Service, she plays Tracy bond. I love the relationship between her and Bob. It breaks formula because they get married Of course at the end of the film shortly before her tragic death, but I really loved the relationship the development of their relationship. Sam 40:12 By the way this this this series of episodes is definitely not spoiler free, I guess maybe I should have said that. Tessa 40:18 Anyway, if you had to figure that out by now I feel like you're out of luck. But she I love the way that their relationship develops throughout the film and the ways in which she like, starts to realize that he really cares about her and the way cuz she's like, she tries to commit suicide at the beginning of the film. And he like saves her life and just, I don't know it breaks formula. And I just think that it's a really interesting dynamic between the two of them. At number three, I have Barbara Bock agent, triple x, who is from The Spy Who Loved Me, she is amazing. I love her so much because she's like bonds opposite which we rarely get in these films. Usually the bond girls like need to be saved, or they're like a scientist or something. And I love that she is like, she is bond. She's Soviet bond, like she sleeps around. She, you know, kills people. She is licensed to kill on the opposite side. And so I feel like in this film, they're really presented as like the only two people who truly understand each other, which I really appreciated. Sam 41:22 Even Ringo Starr married upon Carl. Yeah, and of course, Tessa 41:25 she also married Ringo Starr. That that's the thing. And number two, I have Michelle Yeoh, because I love Michelle Yeoh. If you can't, if you haven't figured that out by now. waylynn from Tomorrow Never Dies. Michelle Yeoh is a kung fu martial arts goddess. She is just such a great actress. Her action scenes are incredible. Like you said I I wonder if they had to tell her to tone it down so she didn't steal the show from bond. But she is so good in this. And my favorite Bond girl at number one is Eva Green as Vesper Lynd from Casino Royale I have a huge crush on Eva Green. I have a huge crush on Eva Green and so that is definitely part of it. But I also just really love like the sarcastic back and forth between the two of them and I just love their relationship and I like that she's the one who teaches him how to wear a tux. Unknown Speaker 42:18 Okay, I'm glad I can say this to someone on that screen who isn't Sam Tessa How does it feel to be so categorically wrong Tessa 42:27 All right, let's hear your let's hear your Bond girl rankings Unknown Speaker 42:31 I'm not gonna like own you with this one mainly because I don't like many of the bond girls for their role as being bond girls. I find that's really weird. I think bombas massage is it's not really to do with that I find on a display of like, affection on screen really uncomfortable. It makes me feel very uncomfortable so I don't like I don't like that. So that kind of discounts an awful lot of the old bond girls you know, because that whole trope of like bond is like in the middle of an amorous connection with the shall we say and M rings in and like in the middle of that like that hole? I don't know is that meant to be funny? Tessa 43:12 It's supposed to be funny but also it happens so many times that I turned to Sam at the end of one movie instead at this point he's doing it on purpose like this is part of kink is to get caught by his boss having sex Unknown Speaker 43:27 oh my gosh, I agree completely Sam 43:30 anymore once Judi Dench takes charge Unknown Speaker 43:36 yeah so I feel like I'm I feel like my ones are just like based off of the like the actress as a mother I enjoyed like like I enjoyed no why is this I can't even do this section I'm like no no, I like to Tracy bond and I like to the original money Penny and I like the money Penny that's in the new Craig continuity. But not for their role is like being kind of a Bond girl. You know, I really did not like Eva Green colback to money penny on the track rusty like Yes, I'm the money every penny of us. I didn't appreciate that. I think those I think like the original money Penny and Tracy bond are my only picks from like the original continuity of bond and the rest has come from the Craig fields because I really like Gemma Arterton of Strawberry Fields and another reference to the Beatles. And I like Laos they do in Spectre and into no time to die. Tessa 44:44 Yeah, let's say do is definitely on like my shortlist as well. Unknown Speaker 44:49 Yeah, she's really she's just really great in like everything I've seen her including Death Stranding, which is just a bonkers game. Like, just do whatever they have to do. That was a whole mess. Sam 45:03 Clean it up clean, clean Nigel's mess up at least what do you got? Unknown Speaker 45:08 my list is actually pretty similar to Tess's list. I have Vesper Linda's number three it's impossible to look away from Eva Green. I just it's it's impossible she's just so beautiful but I just I love that she kind of did what she wanted in the film like the scene where he in Casino Royale when she comes into the casino as kind of a tool to distract everyone and it distracted bond almost the most was amazing. I do tend to like although my number one doesn't fall under this category I debt I tend to like winbond has real feelings for the character which doesn't happen in all of them. Obviously you mentioned Tracy bond who's not on my list but would probably be number four. I just feel like the other thing with best berlind is that her whatever happens with her and Casino Royale kind of overshadows the rest of the crag movies and how she has this lasting effect even though she's not in those movies everything he does afterwards is kind of related to how he handled that situation. Number two I have also Agent triple-x Anya I'm a Silva I want all of her outfits especially that one blue dress that she wears for a really long time. I also think that she and Bond had real feelings for each other but it was interesting from the I don't remember did she know that he was the one that killed her partner at the beginning or did you find out later I don't remember Tessa 46:53 she he she finds out later so he she didn't know the one who killed her partner until I want to say like three quarters of the way through the movie and then she promises to kill him after the mission is over. Right But then we don't so Unknown Speaker 47:07 I kind of like you right I like that aspect of it. I kind of feel it was a similar thing that was done. Inspector also with Mr. White, which obviously we'll discuss that I think I just really liked it She was also a spy as Tessa said she can handle her own stuff she just I really really liked her I felt like she could also like have been on the Americans or something. I do want to cosign before I get into my number one everything that Tessa said before her list, I I feel very similarly about bond girls in general. That being said, while this barn girl was not treated the best. My number one is Pussy Galore. She was just a badass. She did not care how charming James Bond was. She is canonically gay. Well, I'll get more into when we talk about gold finger. I really would love a series with Pussy Galore and her Flying Circus gals and like Pussy Galore and her kittens or something like that like off doing spy stuff. I just think that'd be a really fun series to watch. I just love her and I also when I was reading the book, Nobody does it better. They basically said that if her name wasn't Pussy Galore and the novel they would not have been able to get away with having that as her name in the movie. Tessa 48:28 Yeah, this is this is another bit that I wish was its own movie Pussy Galore. And the the the female group of pilots that she trains like that, that was the other one I was thinking of is I really wish that that was its own like spin off series or something with the Octopussy Unknown Speaker 48:43 girl, that's Sam 48:44 it. That's it. It's Pussycat, lores Flying Circus, in octopus seeds. Regular circus, I don't know. I'm just gonna really quickly try to square this circle. The, you know what, what Tessa said what Nigel said. Because, you know, I have had a really hard time with this too, I think like Nigel has. And, and the reason that I've had that for so long, is it's really a triangulation of three things. And the first one is growing for me, you know, coming of age in the 90s, which was a very specifically toxic time, about gender. And I'm not saying any other time wasn't I'm saying about this specific, toxic time, which was really kind of the the, it was a it was a crucible of if you want to be a real man, you have to act this way. With the pendulum swing that you start to see later in the 90s. You know, have a better articulation of what you know, maybe feminism could be and so growing up with all of that in your head, trying to figure out how you feel How you should act is I will just say it is deeply deeply traumatic and then you know the second thing is you know when I went to university you know, I started learning a lot about you know, second wave feminism, you know about, you know, binaries and, and gender essentialism, at the same time that queer theory was really starting to become you know that that that third wave of things that we talked about you know, which is really a direction I've hewed into and so all that's a lot it's it's very it's been very distressing and very difficult to deal with so when you see something that says aggressively you know sexual as as the the Bond girl thing is I've been uncomfortable with it and and really the way that Tessa has explained it has been very helpful for me to you know, to really see you know, the good and the bad and and, and, you know, maybe a lot of these things weren't made with the best of intentions, you know, at best their male gaze, ie at worst, they might be something else. But, you know, for us, it can be something that that is a celebration that we can look at critically, all that is to say, I mean, while in and Teresa de Vicenzo and Anya Emma silver are clearly the greatest bond girls with the exception of one that nobody's mentioned yet. And like girls allowed I can't speak French. So I'm just gonna say, clotting algor el Kheir? I am talking about Domino. She is my favorite Bond girl. Unknown Speaker 51:38 And I make an addition to my list before we move on. Sam 51:41 I mean, ukn did we did we totally change your view on everything? No. Okay. You just wanted to add one. Okay, go ahead. Yeah, Unknown Speaker 51:49 I just remember I didn't thoroughly Nigel fashion this will be a Bond girl whose film has not arrived yet. This is Anna Dr. Mass in no time today, because she looks like she could kick my ass and I'm okay Sam 52:02 with that. I'm just gonna call a party fell on that one. But okay, we got you. It's on the record. So if you're still with us, this is the end of Part Three, I promise. There's only one more part to this James Bond saga within a saga. But of course back then it was a younger, more innocent time and we had no idea that this was actually going to become a five part special instead of a four part special. So this is the end of Part Three, but there are two more parts to come. Come back on Wednesday for Part Four. Come back on Thursday for Part Five and if it is safe, after you listen to part five, go see no time to die. Or if you're over there in the UK. Maybe you've already seen it. Good for you. In the meantime, you can find Nigel on Twitter and links to her cavalcade of podcasts at spicy Nigel. You can find a lease on twitter at least underscore attendee in her Deep Space Nine podcast on twitter at pod race. Tessa is on Twitter at suela Tessa? Be sure to listen to Tessa and Nigel's brand new podcast nanny augs book club. Find out more about that on twitter at ninnies book club. Finally, you can find me on Twitter at Sam underscore Morris nine. Send us your thoughts about the rankings we talked about today. What pop culture you've crossed off your list lately, what you'd like for us to talk about on future episodes or anything else that comes to mind. Find us on Twitter and Instagram at monkey backlog. Check out our brand new website monkey off my backlog.com email us at monkey my backlog@gmail.com our theme song is hot shot by Scott Holmes and can be found on Scott Holmes music.com please rate review and subscribe on iTunes. Follow us on Spotify, Stitcher, Amazon podcasts, Google podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Get that monkey off your back Transcribed by https://otter.ai