129 Sanremo Transcript === [00:00:00] Bradley: Because this is Eurowhat, and we're Americans trying to make sense of Eurovision slash Sanremo, there's a long tradition of Americans slaughtering Italian classics. [00:00:09] Mike: Hello and welcome to the Eurowhat, episode 129 for the week of August 30th, 2021. I'm Mike McComb. And I'm joined today by Ben Smith. Hey Ben. [00:00:36] Ben: Hey Mike. [00:00:36] Mike: And our special guest Bradley Dalton-Oates. Hi Bradley. [00:00:40] Bradley: Hello. [00:00:40] Mike: We are a group of Americans trying to make sense of the Eurovision Song Contest. And this week we'll be celebrating the Eurovision new year by exploring Sanremo's relationship with Eurovision. Welcome to the show, Bradley. [00:00:51] Bradley: Great to be here. [00:00:53] Mike: Ben, how's it going? [00:00:54] Ben: I can't believe it is already time for a new season of Eurovision to start. [00:00:58] Mike: Yes. We are recording this [00:01:00] before we find out which city in Italy, will be hosting next year's contest. Very eager to hear that announcement. Bradley, thank you for joining us. And you've reached out to us because you're a very big Italy fan from what I gather. [00:01:14] Bradley: Yeah, a professional fan, I suppose. I lived in Italy from 2005 to 2016, 12 years of Italy. Went to university there and also taught there for a long time. So I've also translated have done translations. [00:01:29] How were you introduced to Sanremo? --- [00:01:29] Mike: Oh, fantastic. How were you introduced to Eurovision and Sanremo and the side of Italian music culture? [00:01:38] Bradley: Because Italy was out of Eurovision from, 97 to 2011, my first memories were definitely Sanremo, they're not Eurovision. I think the first Eurovision I remember is Conchita and that was just like mind blowing, wasn't it? Because if you're in Italy, which can be very conservative, Conchita was like, bigger things are going on out there in the world, like wow. Mind [00:02:00] blown. But yeah, I, my first Sanremo was in 2005 and I was living with a older Italian woman. She just lost her husband and was looking for roommates. I was in my mid to late twenties, you know, to kind of keep her company. She said, you must watch Sanremo it's like the Venice Film Festival, but for music. It is the high point of all culture in the world, like Italy is the center of culture and Sanremo is the center of the whole thing. And we watched three to four nights that year of Sanremo together. There are lots of reasons to watch Sanremo that don't have to do with music. A lot like Eurovision, the music is sometimes not worth it. That year a song called "I Bambini Fanno Ooh" won, and it was terrible. It was an awful, insipid, horrendous, it was like some semi modern version of, "A Wonderful World." Yeah. It was just like, children say, oh, you don't really even need to speak Italian to understand "I Bambini Fanno Ooh", but Yeah, it was truly bad. And so I came out of my first Sanremo feeling [00:03:00] like if this is the epicenter of all culture, we are just doomed. We're done for. [00:03:04] Ben: What is happening? [00:03:06] Bradley: Yeah. Yeah. Truly bad. Povia was the singer and people still remember that as rather a low point. To be fair, it turns out, I had one of those internet moments, I went and looked it up and it was like for children in Darfur or something. So now I feel bad about not liking this song, but it's it's truly bad and Povia is a great artist, but no, just no. [00:03:25] Mike: That's so surprising because, I didn't really start following Eurovision until Italy was back, in the Contest. So my exposure to Sanremo is when the quality was much higher than what that sounds like. [00:03:36] Bradley: Oh, it did improve. Yeah, no, it got it. I definitely got better after that. Yeah, for sure. And since it's been going since 1951, It's definitely had high highs and low lows. [00:03:45] Ben: Just like Eurovision itself. Cause I think as we watch more of the early 2000s, Mike, I feel like if 2006 had been my first year having now watched the HD recording of that, I'm not sure I would've come back. [00:03:55] Bradley: Yeah, I felt the same way about Eurovision. So I live in England now, right? So I [00:04:00] lived in the winning country and I am now sitting, talking to you from the nul points country, somewhat sadly. I've always been around Europeans to watch this kind of a thing. I think the first time I was fully invested in Eurovision was the one where the woman had the horse head and the blackboard and every single song that year was just, that was another year where I just thought, I don't know, but I've stuck in and I'm happy with it. [00:04:22] Mike: Yeah, 2017, it's a mixed bag, I will say. [00:04:26] Ben: Yeah. [00:04:28] Mike: So with the host city race coming to a close, of the cities that are in contention, are there any that you're particularly hopeful for that will get the honor? [00:04:38] Bradley: The final cities look like Bologna, Milan, Pesaro, Rimini, and Torino. Pesaro is a city of 50,000 people. And I think it would just be great if Eurovision descended upon them. I think that's unlikely. I think the likely option is Milan because they hosted the expo formerly known as the World's Fair in 2015. Also there's going to be a RAI [00:05:00] office there. I just think it's going to be Milan just for logistical reasons. The city that's in between that for me is Bologna, which is a jewel of a town. It would be great for it to be held there. And I just think it would be a great city to visit and also to promote Italy culturally. [00:05:13] Mike: Yeah, I think I'm hoping for Bologna, just for the possibility of a San Marino day trip. Just cause like how else? [00:05:20] Ben: Just drive through. [00:05:21] Mike: Yeah. I don't know if San Marino is ever going to have the opportunity to host Eurovision, so it'd be nice to at least get that like off the checklist. [00:05:27] Ben: Mike, you could stay at Valentino's Airbnb. [00:05:29] Mike: Yeah. [00:05:30] Bradley: [00:05:30] Yeah. And then stop by Vatican City to feel sad that they are part of European broadcasting yet don't have an entry. Yeah. Or possibly not so sad or possibly not so sad about that. Yeah. how many could you visit? [00:05:43] How would you describe the Italian music scene? --- [00:05:43] Mike: How would you describe the Italian music scene in relation to Sanremo? Because Eurovision is not necessarily a mirror of what's happening in current pop music. Like it's a couple of years behind on trends and stuff. How does Sanremo fit [00:06:00] in with current trends? [00:06:02] Bradley: I guess the first thing to say is that I'm a mother tongue English speaker. I'm not in a mother tongue Italian speaker, although my Italian is fluent. English, I think has a tradition of music that has maybe let's say a happy melody and sad lyrics but in English music, I find, a nice bittersweet thing and sometimes the melody does not match the lyrics. For me, the Italian tradition is, or popular culture has it, that melody matches the lyrics, which is why Italians love Queen, like "We Are the Champions" or music that, to me, sounds like opera. Queen to me sounds like opera. And, the other thing that I would say is that English has more sounds. Italian has five vowel sounds, English has about, let's say, 11 minimum. You have to be able to produce more sounds to be able to speak English. And for me, rhyming is thus more difficult in English. Sometimes I hear Italian music and it's a bit matchy-matchy, if you get drama, you get a lot of drama. You get drama in the lyrics, you get drama [00:07:00] in the melody or sadness or whatever sentiment is being expressed, you get a lot of it in Italian. I'm not quite as happy sometimes with lyrics cause they seem to me a bit easy. I should say I've looked through nearly all of the Sanremo winners over the last few weeks, there's a lot of easy listening. There's a lot of like maybe what sounds like Paul Anka or something like that. So Italian tastes in Sanremo have mirrored whatever was popular in English music at the time. So if the Beach Boys were popular in English, you get an Italian version of it. [00:07:30] The thing that I really like about Italian music is that it is often technically flawless. So the musicians are very good. And what I noticed most about the list of the artists that I know, that are on this that have been popular outside of Sanremo in Italy is that these Sanremo hits are not their biggest hits and they've got bigger hits elsewhere. So an example of this would be Rino Gaetano who won Sanremo in [00:08:00] 1977 with a song called Gianna. It's appealing to the broadest audience possible, but, it's a great place to discover artists because Rino Gaetano then goes on to write a song called Everyone's in Lucia's Bed, which is, spicy [00:08:14] Mike: Yeah. [00:08:14] Bradley: Or one of my favorites, which is called My Brother is an Only Child. And he goes on to list all of the BS things that his brother has said over time. That means that they are not really brothers. And so when Italian music is done very well, there's an irony to the lyrics that I find really pleasant, but not in a lot of Sanremo winners. Sanremo for me is a good place to discover artists that do more cutting music later or elsewhere. And I do have to say in the last few years that hasn't been the case. Something like "Soldi" the lyrics are very good. The song is very solid. I would say the same thing about "Occidentali's Karma" that came out a few years ago, et cetera, et cetera. [00:08:51] So I think they're just pulling out more solid Sanremo winners, and that might have to do with the judging, because there was a jury at one point. It [00:09:00] hasn't always been audience vote for Sanremo, which it is now. [00:09:02] Mike: I think that's one of the things that I find fascinating about Sanremo is just how thorough the process is. Not just that it is a five day event with multiple performances, and different types of songs, but like the types of juries and that there's a press poll and that there's the audience vote and that, you have to have a good song if you're going to do well at the competition. And that everybody seems very invested in the outcome. [00:09:30] Bradley: Yeah. I would say that's the case. Sanremo isn't Italy's only music contest and I don't even mean newfangled things like the Voice, even though that's an older, whatever TV voting thing. Italy also has something called Zecchino d'Oro which is for children's songs. Sanremo in Italy has a really big emphasis on songwriters, rather than singers, and the quality of the songwriting, which I think is great. [00:09:55] Italy is also notoriously old. Italy has the second oldest [00:10:00] population in the world behind Japan. [00:10:02] So, somebody pointed out about how old the Turin Olympics looked compared to the Chinese Olympics. And they're saying that's because decision makers in Italy are 70 to 80 years old. [00:10:12] I mean, the director of Sanremo, artistic director, I think now is Pippo Baudo who's gotta be 105. He's an institution and great for him, but I think there's just an age to Sanremo in, the people that make decisions are a bit creaky. And of course, Silvio Berlusconi as of 2005, I don't know today, owned 90% of the television market in some way or form. [00:10:35] Ben: [00:10:35] Thinking about Sanremo being more of a songwriters competition, I know some of the research I've been doing just on the side looking at potential show topics, one thing that surprised me was that in, I think, 1968, Bobbie Gentry was performing at Sanremo. They brought in, I don't want to say celebrity singers, but they would have one night that was the Italian singer for a song. And another, you had Bobbie Gentry and a few other people who were popular singers at the time also interpreting that [00:11:00] song. [00:10:35] Sanremo's Influence --- [00:11:00] Bradley: Everybody who's anybody has played Sanremo. I would make a list, but it would just take all night I think there was like a year when Bridgette Nielsen hosted or something. [00:11:08] Ben: That's a very specific moment in time. [00:11:09] Mike: Yeah. [00:11:10] Bradley: Yes it is. And I bet you can guess. I bet if I asked you what year that was, you would guess it pretty much correctly. Yeah. When that was like a cultural touchstone. There've been a lot of substandard covers of English songs in Italian, but the most popular English cover of an Italian song is "You Don't Have to Say You Love Me" by Dusty Springfield and Dusty Springfield took that from a Sanremo winner, Pino Donaggio song. [00:11:34] [00:12:00] It is a whopping great torch song in Italian. It's a great torch song in English, but she played Sanremo the year after. So yeah, there's definitely that tradition there. Yeah. [00:12:10] Ben: Yeah, I was going down like a weird rabbit hole of Italian music covers for completely unrelated reasons because realizing that Laura Brannigan's "Gloria" is a cover of an Italian song. [00:12:21] Bradley: So that's a moment in time, isn't it? Yeah, that's this is what I mean about the music and the melody and the song. I think there's things that lend themselves to Italians liking. So there'll be a genre, like the eighties for me is going to just be completely translatable into Italian monoculture. Gloria, especially as a song is just like a pumping big hit that's just going to work, isn't it? In both cultures like that. [00:12:47] Ben: Yeah, there's that there is, Elvis' "It's Now or Never" is essentially "O Sole Mio". [00:12:52] Bradley: I should mention now, by the way that I've made a YouTube channel where you can go see everything or listen to everything that I'm talking [00:13:00] about. If you go on YouTube, it's EW, as in Eurowhat, 129. So that's the episode number: EW129. And yeah, I've included a few Italian covers, Joan Osborne's "One of Us." Like, why would you cover that? But of course they had to eliminate a lot of the controversial stuff for that. There's "Ad Ogni Costo" is the Italian version of "Creep," which it's just not a great idea quite often, but I think that's down to popular tastes. [00:13:25] Yeah. I think they had a hit in English. They wanted to make an easy hit in Italian and there they went. Yeah, I suppose the most popular Sanremo winner is Volare. Which is "Nel Blu Dipinto Di Blu". [00:13:35] Mike: Yeah. [00:13:35] Bradley: Domenico Modugno, who is famously from Puglia, the heel of the boot, and there is a massive statue of him somewhere that I've seen with outstretched arms. I mean, it's like local boy done good, Domenico Modugno. I mean, if you, people from Puglia still remember him. Because this is Eurowhat, and we're Americans trying to make sense of Eurovision slash Sanremo. there's a long tradition of Americans slaughtering [00:14:00] Italian classics, to which I would include Nat King Cole. Whose Italian is, as lovable as he is, not great, but his voice is flawless, so okay. fine. [00:14:11] Fair enough. Yeah, no complaints there. [00:14:14] Ben: Thinking of the sort of interesting places between English and Italian. Like one of the things that comes up for me with Italian music is, and I'm going to try to pronounce this. I'm probably going to butcher it. My apologies in advance, "Prisencolinensinainciusol", which the whole point of that song is that it sounds like it's in English, but it's just jibberish. [00:14:32] And it's delightful. [00:14:33] Bradley: Yeah. this can go bad really quickly. So that horrendous Sanremo, that I was talking about, 2005's, they invited a guest that year, which was Hugh Grant. Bless him. He looked like he'd got off a red eye. And just was like invited I don't know why. But when Italians learn English, in every book it says "the cat is on the table." And this is like the first sentence you learn in English. And, to invite Hugh Grant, they had this massive table and [00:15:00] this oversized teapot, this comical teapot, and, Paolo Bonolis who was presenting, I'm not a huge fan of Italian presenters, by the way, but Paolo Bonolis just kept telling Hugh Grant, "the cat is on the table." Hugh Grant could literally not understand why this was so hilarious. And everybody thought it was super funny, but on RAI it is like a normal shtick where people pretend to speak English by just adding S to the ends of words and people find it super funny. I am slightly worried that this is where Eurovision is going to go. Like I am desperately. I'm just like hoping that, whoever the young presenters they find for 2022 are, I dunno, Sweden quality or whoever else they find. You know what I mean? I'm worried that this in-joke is not going to make it outside of Italy, but I don't know who they'll find. Fiorello who normally does Sanremo is I don't think English proficient, Amadeus who does Sanremo I don't think is either. I'm going to be interested to see who they find to present to be quite honest. [00:15:54] Mike: There was an article I was reading this morning that said that RAI was planning on having a different set of hosts than who they [00:16:00] would have for Sanremo. [00:16:01] Bradley: They would have to, they would have to, Sanremo in the nineties, went through a little bit of a revamp. They did a Sanremo Afterparty, and also they introduced this idea of "la mora e la bionda." So the brunette and the blonde. There's typically an older presenter and by older, I mean, 70 to 80 years old and standing next to like maybe a 20 year old. Think like Regis and Kelly territory if Kelly was maybe 19, 20. To Italian viewers, this isn't irritating cause that's like a lot of RAI, but people are interested in who is going to be the blonde and who's going to be the brunette. And I don't know if that kind of thing is going to translate into a Eurovision. I don't know if I want a Regis and Kelly vibe in my Eurovision 2022, quite honestly. I think they're going to have to rethink what works for RAI for Eurovision. A few years ago, they invited Valentino Rossi. So if you don't know who that is, he rides motorcycles, local legend. They invited his girlfriend to be the [00:17:00] brunette. Amadeus who was the host said she's a good pick because she knows how to stand behind a strong man. Um, so like the thing that I'm yeah. I'm not trying to say that this is something I perceive, it's possibly not a real, is, it's just that they're the way they do it is possibly not translatable really to an international audience. I think that if, yeah, I just hope they work it out. [00:17:23] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. and I think there is also just a broadness that has to be hit. Because that was one of the issues when Germany was hosting the contest back in 2011, where like some of the humor and some of the jokes were just so broad that it's somebody is going to laugh. It's not going to be me, but it's. [00:17:42] Bradley: Yeah, like sound of a single hand clapping at the back of a room, kind of a thing. yeah. [00:17:46] Sanremo History --- [00:17:46] Mike: In terms of the history of Sanremo, what are some of the major points that would be a good thing to know about the competition? [00:17:55] Bradley: People should probably listen in a forum where they've got really good audio [00:18:00] quality. You know what I mean? If you really wanted to get into Italian music, the famous female singers would be Raffaella Carrà, who's got a Judy Garland, kind of a cult following. She just passed away a few months ago, and Mina is a big singer of torch songs. Um, I think maybe Adele, but better than that by a lot by long shot. if we're not talking about classical music, you'd be looking at from male singers, Fabrizio De André, Francesco De Gregori, Franco Battiato, Vasco Rossi, and Lucio Battisti. [00:18:30] These are the classics. Some of these people participate in Sanremo. Some don't. In 1959, you have Mina. I would also say that Ennio Morricone who some people know from his composing work, did a lot of the arrangements that year. So I'd look at 1959. I'd look at 1961, there's a singer called Giorgio Gaber who later pioneered a kind of political satire, but in theater form. His most famous song is "Io non mi [00:19:00] sento italiano"-- I don't feel Italian. And the second lyric is, but unfortunately, or fortunately I am. and he's got a song called "Sinistra e Destra" left and right. The kind of take the Mick out of politics. He's very good. Yeah. "Io Che Non Vivo" Pino Donaggio, I've mentioned, that's 1965. 1967 has a big history of protest songs. And there's a big, Sanremo suicide murder mystery. Um, and I don't, yeah, I know you weren't expecting that. [00:19:28] Mike: No. [00:19:29] Ben: No. [00:19:30] Bradley: So in 1967, which was a big year of unrest, much like it was in the states and around the world, a singer called Luigi Tenco sang a song called "Ciao Amore Ciao". It didn't make it to the final. And he was found dead in his room that evening. Yeah. His suicide note said, quote, I'm doing this, not because I'm tired of life, I'm not, but as a gesture of descent against the public who chose "Io tu e le rose" for the [00:20:00] finals and against the commission. So this is when there was a jury vote still. That selected "La rivoluzione". I hope this will clear somebody's head. Some people say that it couldn't have been suicide. But it turns out that Luigi Tenco, since he died at 28, left an oeuvre behind him and I've listened to some of the songs they're quite good. There is a song called "Mi sono innamorato di te" I fell in love with you, and there's a pause in the second line is "because I was bored." And it describes the kind of like ennui, unrest, I think it's ahead of his time and I think. He's been rated by the Guardian, I looked at it later, as like Serge Gainsbourg. So if you like that kind of music he's in that vein, but I think, it's unlikely that his songs will be translated and it's too bad. They're very good. [00:20:50] Yeah, the seventies, Rino Gaetano. I highly suggest. The eighties, you've got a lot of power singers. So like Zucchero, Vasco Rossi. These are very popular singers and you could listen to them if [00:21:00] you didn't understand the language. Oh look, 1985, this will make Ben happy. Eros Ramazotti with "Terra Promessa", he's an acquired taste, but definitely listened to him. Bonnie Tyler and Queen performed that year. So there you go. And then I just highly suggest really highly suggest everything that happened after 1994. 1994 Andrea Bocelli wins, the categories have changed. [00:21:26] But really everything after 2011 is amazing. There's a old artists section. There's an emerging artists section, a new artist section. I'd really suggest this year, listening to, Willie Payote, which is a play on words. He's a rapper, he's phenomenal. "Mai dire mai" is amazing. [00:21:42] Mike: Yeah. this year's field I don't think there was a dud in the set. Like it was fantastic. [00:21:47] Bradley: No, absolutely not. Hands down. Amazing. Hands down. Amazing this year. [00:21:51] Ben: One area where I need to dip into the Sanremo archives is I'm a huge fan of the sub genre that's now become known as Italo [00:22:00] disco, and just want to dip into the eighties. Um, I don't know if there's something just delightful about just very specific synth noises. [00:22:14] Bradley: I'm I'm like, I'll try to stop like breathing into a paper bag and rocking back and forth. [00:22:19] Ben: No, no, no, No, it's fine. It's like we were having, it's we've been having a wonderful discussion on charcuterie and I've said that I enjoy Lunchables. [00:22:27] Bradley: Yeah, this could spawn a whole sub discussion on do you find the eighties cringy? Because, I don't want to say I'm showing my age, but I came of age around the time of Nirvana, so the eighties for me should not happen again. [00:22:40] But I don't know for some people they clearly need to rehappen again, and especially like Poland this last year in, in Eurovision and I just thought maybe not. What bit of Italian disco are you feeling right now at this very moment? [00:22:53] Ben: I have one go-to Spotify playlist I think it's literally called Spaghetti Dance. When, Eurovision Again showed [00:23:00] the most recent time Italy hosted, the 91 contest, that opens up with what is probably not, Italo disco, but Italo disco adjacent "Celebrate." Those very plastic sounds it's so fascinating to me. [00:23:13] Bradley: Why? let me [00:23:18] do you, no, I guess let's go back. What makes you happy about Eurovision? What's your Eurovision jam. [00:23:24] Ben: There is a sense of spectacle to everything that I appreciate, but also as I get more into folk music, both in what I listened to as an American and just digging into that. the things I like at Eurovision lately tend to be the opposite of Italo disco. [00:23:39] I just like a lot of music, but watching how folk music traditions get mashed up and interact with pop trends. [00:23:47] Bradley: I feel like there's a whole world for you somewhere. I want to say that Italians are really good, technically the song that comes to mind, although it's not disco is, "Tu vuo fa l'americano" and there was a remix. It was [00:24:00] huge. A few years ago, it's a remix of an old song and it was just amazingly done. And I just think that there is a way in which yeah, Italians are very good with sound and mixing in a way that could be quirky and kitschy. I should also add that. it turns out when you have a lot of classism in a society, you come up with a lot of dialects. And I do not mean accents, I mean, forms. There are a lot of forms of Italian that are unintelligible from one place to another, because the words changes so much that like even syntax changes. So Italy has so many dialects. This is why they use gestures, because they couldn't understand each other speaking in Italian. So when they use their hands to make gestures, I sound like a sociologist, they, anyway, there's 200 gestures and they're universal because if you speak dialect, you're just unintelligible. You're not going to be understood by a fellow Italian. So Italian dialect has been embraced by, I want to say Eurovision. I want to say there's one Neapolitan song that's been to Eurovision, I can't remember what it is, but dialect has been [00:25:00] embraced by Sanremo as well, possibly a little late. That is part of Sanremo tradition, and an Italian tradition is singing in different dialect, which I think feeds into folk somehow. Yeah. [00:25:10] In a way that you'd like quite a lot. Yeah, for sure. It reminds me of things like Tarantella or something like this. It's a Sicilian tradition, that I think would lend itself quite well to that. [00:25:20] Mike: Oh, that's amazing. So does Sanremo have a mission akin to Eurovision where it's a way to unify Italy? With all of the language differences and the cultural differences and the history of being so many separate states at one point. [00:25:38] Bradley: No, because when I think of Eurovision, I think it's like the song Olympics to bring everyone together. Eurovision is being more akin to the European Union. It's like the United Nations of songs somehow to European United Nations of Song. I do think about Eurovision as being political. And I don't think about Sanremo as being political or a unifying thing. Record [00:26:00] companies used to pay for Sanremo, and now the question, who does Sanremo belong to? And I think it's the people because it's down to an audience vote. I think it's a solid moneymaker once a year for RAI. It brings generations together. You can watch it with your Nan. You can watch it with your whoever, watch some Sanremo. But no, it was originally conceived Sanremo because Sanremo is located near Monte-Carlo. It's up on the coast and it's a gambling town there's a casino. Very glamorous, but the original Sanremos were held in January just to increase tourism, yeah, in a dead city. And then the funding of it changed over time. And it was probably very popular during the monoculture because, now with streaming and everything else, I wonder what Sanremo's point is in life. [00:26:47] Mike: Looking at the audience data that comes out after each Sanremo it does still seem like it is part of a monoculture just with the viewing figures. So I dunno trying to hang onto those last threads of [00:27:00] any sort of monoculture, out there. Cause it seems like they're all kind of vanishing at this point. [00:27:04] Bradley: Presumably it will stay relevant. You do hear people complaining, I want to say Ornella Vanoni who's been on Sanremo nine times, 10 times, something like that, is saying that it's too Americanized. You know what she's saying is like rap and hip hop are now part of Eurovision. And it's not in keeping with Italian tradition. I was reading an article that said that Eurovision winners just keep getting sadder and sadder. [00:27:28] And because that's the times, the beats keep getting faster and the lyrics to keep getting more depressing. And I just don't know that Italy, especially being economically where it is and has been for probably the last 30 years is ready for, a re presentation of 1950, again, much to the chagrin of Ornella Vanoni. ~You know um, so yeah. ~ [00:27:47] What might Italy hosting Eurovision look like? --- [00:27:47] Mike: ~I mean, do you, ~Do you have a sense of if Italy is excited about hosting Eurovision or being part of this process and like having a winning song, if this is how the trend [00:28:00] of music is moving. [00:28:01] Bradley: I think Italians are excited, there was a point where I was working in Italy, where there was 58% youth unemployment and that's, that's youth is under 35 in Italy, by official statistics. [00:28:12] If you are disaffected, and you're like, let's say Måneskin or someone similar, I think you've got bigger horizons than Sanremo. I think Italy's going to be proud to host Eurovision. I think they could host a great Eurovision. [00:28:26] Everybody wants to go to Italy, it's got a lot to offer. And there was a term coined the sick man of Europe and in Europe there's always one sick man. Traditionally that's been Greece or Italy. And I think it is seen that Italy is limping along, especially if you look at like the G8 and you don't make the number any bigger. I think Italian people know that they are not that. And I think especially, the whole controversy with Måneskin and drugs. I remember when the drug thing quote happened, but didn't happen. And I thought, oh no, they think that hard rock metal singers do drugs that's so retrograde and then [00:29:00] the next morning it was like, oh no, "the Italians do drugs." That's the stereotype. Yeah. So I think a lot of Italians, like every board that I looked at was lit up with like how racist people were against Italians. And I think that they could really produce a lovely Eurovision. I think they're excited about it. I think they'd be happy to do it. I think they can do it. I just hope RAI doesn't get in the way. That's the only thing. [00:29:22] Mike: Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense, especially just given what the last two years have been like, but considering how hard hit Italy was, by COVID but then this year with them winning the Euros, winning Eurovision, doing incredibly well at the Olympics and just this kind of rising from the ashes that's happening, it seems like there's just very strong momentum for Italian pride. [00:29:46] Bradley: Also, I think it's what Italians do well. There have been lists made of what does it mean to be Italian? What is the national character of an Italian? And I think being crafty in the face or clever [00:30:00] in the face of defeat in the face of hardship is definitely part of it. When Italy does things well, they have a certain character that they apply to things. I'm not the biggest fan of, I don't know whether to call it in metal or just hard rock. Måneskin was not my first choice. It was just too strong of a field this year. In any other year, maybe not this year. And to be quite honest, they reminded me on the night a lot of _This is Spinal Tap_. A full, like, uh, like like. [00:30:29] Mike: Yeah, with those costumes in particular. Yeah. [00:30:32] Bradley: Oh, just wholesale. All I could think of is turn the volume to 11. I, but like the more I look at them, the more that they are international. Presumably they've gone to international school. They are great songwriters. They really have a voice. And I think that's just the same about a lot of Italians coming out now. A lot of the music they're putting out. But even the Euros, that team was working as a team and they just had something very specific to offer. The Olympics, the Italian that shared his medal with someone, it's a feel good story. I think they're all [00:31:00] feel good stories. They're amazing feel good stories. Yeah. They're not an Italy that's full of itself showing up, like with not enough oomph to get over that they're getting well over the line. They're doing really well. [00:31:10] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. and I never get a sense of arrogance about the successes that come along. And I think that's, that speaks volumes. [00:31:19] Bradley: The thing about Italy is that if you win, people are really proud of you. If you lose, they will tear you apart. I think, and I think it's just, America is a country of, I don't know what 350 million people now or whatever. And so if it's something like the Olympics, you have a body type for every sport and we just find somebody, cause we're a country we're just a massive country, America. Italy, 60 million people, maybe slightly more than that now, they sometimes don't have the resources with certain things. You get your hopes built up. It's like being a Cubs fan, it is that heartbreak of being the fan of a team that can cleanly win and that just sometimes doesn't and, it's like that. [00:31:56] Mike: Yeah. [00:31:58] Bradley: So there's double the pride when they come [00:32:00] through, like the way that they can and should yeah. [00:32:02] Wrapping Up --- [00:32:02] Mike: Yeah. All right. Bradley, thank you so much for joining us for this conversation. [00:32:06] Bradley: Anytime. I'm very excited about this whole disco thing. [00:32:10] No, hold on. I won't say that in the app. I won't say that. And you can edit that out. Hold [00:32:13] Ben: will. no. Yeah. Don't worry about it. I can send you a Spotify. [00:32:17] Mike: Yeah, [00:32:17] Bradley: Oh, please do. [00:32:19] Mike: When the next year's field is going to be 30 Italian disco style songs, for the contest, it'll be, yeah. [00:32:25] Bradley: I maybe do you think they could redo "Sugar" with an Italian disco bent? Yes. No, just a [00:32:31] Mike: is all I want right now. All right. Is there anything that you would like to plug? [00:32:36] Bradley: I definitely want to plug myself if anyone has, press passes for either Eurovision or Sanremo and needs an Italian translator I'm in. Otherwise I would, plug two other things. The first is, _Songlines Magazine_. _Songlines_ is a British magazine. It's world music, which some people just called music. And, it comes with 10 songs every month. And since we're in a bit of a song drought [00:33:00] at the moment, it's it's great. [00:33:01] it's got music, divided by continent. And they it's always got new stuff. And then I would definitely suggest, especially if you're in that eighties moment, Ben, did you see Little Big's spoof of Italian television? [00:33:14] Ben: I have not seen that. I'm mostly familiar with Bill Hader's, representation of Italian television from Saturday Night Live. [00:33:20] Bradley: Oh, I've not seen that. I definitely, I, yeah, I've definitely needed to see that. [00:33:24] Ben: The Vinny Vedecci sketches are very good. [00:33:27] Bradley: I'm cringing [00:33:28] Mike: Yeah. [00:33:28] Bradley: Cringing already. [00:33:29] Ben: I'm pretty sure the only point that he made it in every single sketch is to eat an entire plate of spaghetti. Like he's clearly just having a meal break while the sketch is happening. [00:33:38] Bradley: Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. the thing I should say is Italian culture and American culture have a lot in common. And one thing that they have in common is that when it's bad, it's bad. And when it's good, it's very good. And there's not a middle. Yeah. [00:33:48] Ben: And there's nothing in between. [00:33:49] Bradley: Yeah, for sure. Little Big did a spoof of Italian television called Ciao Italy. Definitely also take a look at that. And, of course the YouTube playlist, if anybody's interested. [00:33:59] Mike: [00:34:00] Excellent. And we'll have links to all of that in our show notes. And that's going to do it for this episode of the Eurowhat thanks for listening. The Eurowhat podcast is hosted by Mike McComb. That's me, and Ben Smith. [00:34:12] Ben: That's me. You can follow the, or what on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or the podcast app of your choice. If you'd like to support the show, we're also on Patreon at patreon.com/eurowhat. [00:34:22] Mike: Show notes are in the description of this episode and on our website at eurowhat.com. If you'd like to contact us, we're @eurowhat on Twitter or you can email eurowhatpodcast@gmail.com. [00:34:34] Ben: Next time on the Eurowhat, we'll be taking a closer look at the host city selected for Eurovision 2022