224 SFX Appeal === [00:00:00] dudepoints: I thought the entire arena was going to slide off its moorings. And just go into the sea, because people were cheering, and stomping, and it was phenomenal. [00:00:27] Mike: Hello, and welcome to the Eurowhat, episode 224, dropping on March 26th, 2024. We are a pair of Americans trying to make sense of the Eurovision Song Contest. I'm Mike McComb, and I'm here with my co host, Ben Smith. Hey, Ben. Hey, Mike. In this episode, we'll be talking about our second group in the first semi final with our special guest, Dude Point. Welcome, dude. [00:00:53] dudepoints: Hello. I am super excited to be here. [00:00:56] Mike: we're so glad to have you mainly because I want to dive deep on your university challenge experience. Forget [00:01:04] dudepoints: Eurovision, it's all about the quiz. [00:01:08] Mike: Yeah. Yeah, because I think the last time you were on the show, you were about to do Only Connect, so you're hitting, all of the highlights of the BBC game show universe, and, um, insanely jealous on my side, but, how was, Being on University Challenge, and Only Connect as well. [00:01:24] dudepoints: Only Connect was, was great. It was a lot of fun. the downside was I had to leave Turin, to go film Only Connect. University Challenge did not have any filming that coincided with Eurovision, so it was better, except for the fact that I did have to miss going to Finland, and that was the Caria final. So I'm seeing the Caria final, at UMK, to go film University Challenge. Oh, [00:01:50] Mike: wow. Wow. And I didn't realize there was that much of a delay between filming and airing. Yeah, [00:01:55] dudepoints: it all filmed last year, So, it's been quite a while since it filmed, [00:02:00] Mike: yeah. Oh, awesome. congratulations on that. [00:02:02] dudepoints: Thanks, yeah, it was, completely unexpected and a lot of fun, although I did get, heckled in the Eurovision community when I missed a Eurovision question, I was not quick enough to the buzzer and got beaten to it, [00:02:16] Mike: it happens, I mean, just like Jeopardy, it is a buzzer beater contest, I think, so. Buzzer skills are important, [00:02:21] Ben: yep. [00:02:23] Mike: I did have a question about the buzzers, though, because it When they had the alumni, edition over the holidays, it looks like you really have to press down on the button, [00:02:31] dudepoints: So, I've, I've been on Jeopardy, and on Jeopardy, it's like a little pen motion. Right. This is, you know, It's a buzzer that is kind of encased in the desk, and it is heavy. if you watch me on the show, like, I'm throwing my arm into that thing. Um, because you have to press hard to get it to connect. [00:02:52] Mike: Yes. Oh, that is wild. Because when I did Quizbowl in high school, it was just kind of more of like a doorbell. Set up and kind of a hair trigger at times, but, uh, yeah, like you really have to put your all into it. [00:03:03] dudepoints: I think it provides for a better visual experience because you can see when, like, four people are trying to hit the buzzer, so the buzzer races are more evident. [00:03:13] Ben: I think this is the first time we've had you on the show to actually discuss Eurovision songs during the current season instead of afterwards. [00:03:20] dudepoints: Yeah, and I think, honestly, Song wise, this is one of my favorite Eurovision years. everything is maximalist, there are so many sounds to react to. As somebody who's autistic and who likes little bleeps things in my songs, there are so many sound effects to react to. So I am having a fabulous time listening to the songs this Eurovision [00:03:43] Moldova - Natalia Barbu - "In the Middle" --- [00:03:43] Mike: year. Natalia Barbu will be representing Moldova with the song In the Middle. Natalia previously represented Moldova at Eurovision in 2007, finishing in 10th place with the song Fight. She has taken residence in Romania and even participated in the Romanian national selection in 2013. Her return to Moldova's Etapa Nacionala process was not without controversy. While In the Middle finished first in the auditions and swept the jury in the final, the song finished in a distant second in the televote and generated a tie due to 12 10 8 point conversions The rules did not stipulate how to break a tie and it was decided that the jury winner would get the ticket to Malmo. In the middle is written by Natalia Sota and Rickard's Christopher Hugh. Moldova finished in 18th place last year with Pasha Parfeny's Svarlje Sjeluna. So dude, what do you think of Moldova's entry this year? [00:04:57] dudepoints: I looked up the population of Moldova because I'm kind of wondering Are there any artists in Moldova who haven't been to Eurovision by now? the last original artist they sent, was in 2019 when it was Anna Obedescu with Stay. And, Natalia's song is, a classic Eurovision song. it sounds like something you could hear at Eurovision 2014 or Eurovision 2004, with the exception of one thing, which is the, snake sound effect. if you've ever watched RuPaul's Drag Race, and you know the shade, Button sound effect, so that appears multiple times in this song, and that was the kind of one distinguishing feature, uh, for me. It slowed down somewhat, but I was like, ooh, ooh, show you just coming. [00:05:45] Mike: Betrayal! [00:05:47] dudepoints: but yeah, it's, it's a classic Eurovision song, I like the fact that she wrote it about her children, that means I, I can't make fun of the lyrics too much, but they are very kind of. Disconnected from each other, I think what will pull this song through is gonna be the staging, because it's, it's very original and [00:06:07] Mike: creative. [00:06:08] Ben: I have really enjoyed digging into this one, and appreciating kind of the subtlety of that national final performance, you've got all five of them, sort of acting as a collective body, when she's the only one singing, you have a couple of the ones in the back, Just sort of mouthing the words along with her. So like, there's something very interesting and very poetic, both about that and the lyrics, like the lyrics feel. Yeah, like, there's something very poetic about them, and like, sometimes poetry is bad. there's a lot of subtlety to appreciate, but I'm also wondering, is subtlety a good way to go for this one? I wanna know what they're gonna do with this one in the arena, where they need to be a little bit bigger. [00:06:44] Mike: I'm agreeing with everything that both of you are saying. I think subtlety is the right way to describe this track because it has been sneaking up on me, particularly in prepping for this episode. And it's like, man, I really like this and what Moldova is doing. Like, my first note is magicians this song shouldn't be Quite work because again, lyrically it's not the most challenging. it's a little repetitive and it kind of trails off at the end of the song and it's like, oh, okay, we're coming up on three minutes. we gotta end this. But yeah, there, there's just something in the delivery. I, I, I think part of it is like Natalia has a really lovely voice and I think that that's doing a lot of selling. I think the stage performance. That is the part that I am most excited about, because it felt like it was pretty fully realized at the national final. So, how is Moldova going to juge that, is something I'm really excited to see. I think back to their, 2018 performance for My Lucky Day, where the national final performance involved like a lot of Pillars covered in mirrors and or aluminum foil, and it was a lot about reflections, and then it turned into the IKEA cabinets, which were just iconic, and I think they're already in such a good position with the staging, and I'm curious to see how they can make it a little bit more 360. It was kind of two dimensional. in the national final, and now that they have, the full arena to work with, I think there's a lot of potential here, and I, I think Natalia bringing her previous Eurovision experience and the fact that, like, she is obviously very talented, it's just going to Elevate further. And I think subtlety will be helpful in this semifinal. And really, like, this year's Eurovision, just because there is so much maximalism. And, we keep going back to it. Weird little dudes. And, uh, yeah, it's just like, oh, okay. Um, I was gonna say like, oh, mom's here, she'll calm things down, but there is kind of that aspect of it. It's like, okay, fun mom, but still like kind of mom energy, but in a positive way. I'm very thumbs up on this one. [00:08:51] Ben: Yeah, same. And like, just thinking about how the stage is organized this year, there is a chance to give this sort of a third dimension, given that there's almost an in the round style stage. [00:09:01] dudepoints: I really like what you said about magicians, though, because thinking about it now, that kind of chorus bit would be the perfect thing for a Las Vegas magic show. When, you know, the magician is doing the kind of strut across the stage before the reveal. Like, this song would work really well in that context. it's a nice song, it's hovering in the 20s on my list, it's not one of my favorites this year, but, but it's a nice song. [00:09:28] Mike: Yeah, like, I'm not getting Twitter vibes or anything like that, but yeah, I think, I think this could capture, people enough, especially if it gets a good spot in the running order where it can be highlighted instead of buried. I think it could be enough to get into the final and just people like really appreciate it. And I think that that's like Moldova's secret sauce. that's what they do best. If it's [00:09:48] dudepoints: not buried right in the [00:09:49] Mike: middle. [00:09:50] Lithuania - Silvester Belt - "Luktelk" --- [00:09:50] Mike: There you go. [00:09:53] Ben: Luke Tauk by Sylvester Belt won Lithuania's new national selection process Eurovisia. lt in February and will be the Baltic Nations representative at the contest. Sylvester graduated from the University of Westminster in 2019 with a degree in commercial music performance, and he is no stranger to singing competitions. He tried to go to Junior Eurovision in 2010, won the show I Am a Superhit in 2017, and finished in 10th place on X Factorius in 2018. In an interview with broadcaster LRT, Belt said, Language is one of the instruments of a song. At first we hear the music, the instruments, the voice, and the language in which the music is performed is just one part. In the end, cliche though it is, we all speak one language of music. He may be on to something as the fully Lithuanian track reached number one on the Lithuanian charts. Luketalk is written by Zesica Sivokaita, Elena Labonowskis, Linus Strotskis, and Sylvester Spelt. In last year's contest, Linkite's stay reached 11th place. Alright, dude, I know that you were at the Lithuanian final. What was this like in the arena? [00:11:14] dudepoints: So, the Lithuanian final was an interesting experience, because I, I loved Luktauk, but I also really liked Kaboom. So I came with my speed glasses on, and I walked into the arena to just see a bunch of Lithuanian people just dressed up for a night out. So, There were no clues about what songs would be doing well. Like, you went to Finland and you mentioned people were dressed in, like, Windows 95 costumes. Nothing like that here. So it was just people dressed in, like, Nicely. he performed it the first time, and the arena was enthusiastic. And I was like, okay, this is a good sign. The teenager next to me was going nuts, I was like, this is a good sign. Then they got to the super final. The teenager next to me made the sign of the cross. He starts to perform. The arena explodes. People get up out of their chairs to dance along. This is a rarity, I've been told, in Lithuania. Everybody is singing. I don't speak Lithuanian. I'm singing along, at that point I'm like, okay, I think this is gonna win, because Shower was the other big hit, it did not quite get the same response. When he finally did win and performed the winner's reprise, the response was so enthusiastic, I thought the entire arena was going to slide off its moorings. And just go into the sea, because people were cheering, and stomping, and it was phenomenal. People are really behind this song in Lithuania. Oh, that is [00:12:59] Mike: amazing to hear. Yeah. when I was trying to get the, numbers from, the final results, and watching the clip on YouTube and doing some screen grabs, the moment that, the final results popped up, one of the screen grabs that I got was somebody in the audience It looked like they were jumping, 10 feet in the air with their arms outstretched, just so excited about the result. [00:13:22] dudepoints: personally, I'm obsessed with this song. I've listened to it probably over 200 times since it came out. This is a slightly old reference, but if you've ever had that thing where, you know, you, you might be watching cable television and you'd have a movie that came on and you're like, Oh, this is one of my favorite movies, I just have to watch it. Luke Telk is that song for me. Like, if it comes on, I just have to, like, stop and give myself over to the experience of Luke Telk. Everything about it, the lyrics, the music, the performance, it's a total package, and I just want to point out one thing that I think is very smart about the song. Last year, I was really annoyed, because we had Unicorn, and we had, Armenia Song, and I was like, This is the Eurovision Song Contest. It's not the Eurovision Dance Contest. Stop putting all these deliberate dance breaks in music. But, Sylvester Belt has actually written the dance break into the song. the song is about a dream. And the lyrics are, we're standing in the silence of a radio playing, I no longer want to dance, but I need to dance, and then boom, it goes into the dance break, where he does, again, ridiculous, like, grocky dancing moves, like he's Gabriela Svijelas, so it's, I'm in love with it. I, I cannot get enough of this song, and I know it's not going to win Eurovision. But it is my number one song this year. [00:14:56] Mike: I am really fond of this song. Like, this is one that caught my attention very early in selection season. I think what I'm most concerned about with this song is that it's just not going to have the opportunity to shine in the first semi final because it's in the first half of the first semi final and there's just a lot of stuff in there that is not in conversation with this track so it's just like it, it feels like no matter where it ends up in the running order it's just going to be kind of like okay it's there and not really going to get elevated by the stuff around it i think it's going to make it to the final but i don't think it's necessarily going to have momentum going into the grand final just because it was just so buried wherever it ends up, But, I think this is a fantastic track. And I think he's just a really interesting person. from the small bio that we have here, it's like, oh, wow, like commercial music performance. Like, I, I wouldn't even know what that area of study is, but I want to know more about it. is it to be like professional singing competition participant? Because that, that seems like that could be a lucrative career if you're good at it. And he appears to be very good at it. So, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm also very thumbs up on this one watching the video of this performance, you can just hear the crowd's energy as the song is playing and it's just so infectious. [00:16:18] Ben: I love that he has thought about the linguistics of the lyrics and just language as an instrument, just because I don't know Lithuanian, but I get the vibe of this song. I get what it's talking about. Like there's this wonderful dreamlike energy to everything. And the wonderful thing about communicating what it means without being in English is just so wonderful. I was trying to figure out like what this sonically sounded like to me, and I finally figured out what it was. And it is, has either of you heard, the song The 7th Element by Vitas? It was like a meme thing like years ago at this point. It's like a Russian song. Okay, I'm gonna send y'all a link later. a lot of the lyrics are just like, okay, one more minute, and like, yes, I will listen to this one more minute. I will, I will hit replay. I definitely hear your concern though, Mike, cause yeah, like, the first half of the first semifinal I do not envy the team that has to figure out the running order there, cause that is A lot of different things, they should just take the current performance of this and just adapt it to the new stage, but yeah, I just wanna, like, I want this to do well, because it is also one of my favorites, I have also been playing it on repeat since January, I would like it to do well just because Lithuania has been doing some really good stuff overall, and I would like to see them get a chance to host, but yeah, it's like, hopefully, hopefully. This gets a chance to shine because I think it is really lovely. [00:17:38] Mike: Yeah, this really does feel like the culmination of what Lithuania has been doing the last four or five years. [00:17:44] Poland - LUNA - "The Tower" --- [00:17:44] Mike: reward them, please. Alexandra Vilgomas, who performs under the stage name Luna, will sing The Tower on behalf of Poland. Growing up, Luna studied violin and voice before pursuing a degree in political science at the University of Warsaw. she describes her sound as cosmic pop. And draws inspiration from astrology, philosophy, art, ecology, and fashion. Luna is one of Poland's representatives in Spotify's Equal campaign, an endeavor to support women in music. Other reps include Ukraine's Aliona Aliona and Jerry Heil, Sweden's Loreen, and Polish junior Eurovision contestant, Sarah James. Luna was featured in a Times Square ad campaign for the initiative. The Tower was selected internally and is written by Fife, Luna, and Max Cook. Poland finished in 19th place in Liverpool with the song Solo by Blanka. So Ben, what do you make of The Tower? [00:18:58] Ben: so I realized this week that I had been mishearing a lyric in it and it cracked something open about the song for me. I had been hearing the chorus as I'm the one who builds the tower, but it's I'm the one who built the tower. It's me. Hi, I'm the problem. It's me. realizing that and actually looking at the lyrics of the song and just going, Oh, this is a song about just sort of realizing that you are the common factor in all of your relationships. You were the one with agency and to just kind of get over yourself. it works for me, although this is the one where I really want to hear this live. I need that, variable in figuring out how I feel this is going to do, Amongst, this semi final in particular, it's refreshingly straightforward, it's what's going on in pop right now. But I want to know what the live performance looks like and sounds like to figure out It's feeling a little bit bubbly for me, where like, if it's a solid performance, I think it's through. If it struggles a bit live, I think it could struggle in the voting, especially if there's Kind of louder more brash things going on because like there's some very strong visuals in the video I'm not sure if that's what they're gonna translate over to the stage in Malmo [00:19:56] dudepoints: Ben, I really like your point about how it is about fighting with yourself because in the video, the final person that she ends up playing chess with is an older version of herself. so really working through, your self sabotage. I'd love this song. I don't know why more people aren't talking about this song. I think it's, it's great. It's got so many little beeps and boops in it, which tickle my brain. What makes me angry about this song is that, in Eurovision, we now have, as you have termed it, weird little dudes. And we've got a category to celebrate weird little dudes. But there's no equivalent category for women, unless you're old, and then you get to be, like, a granny making cookies on stage. I think that Luna is weird, and she's not fitting into the traditional pop girly box. people who haven't fit into that box haven't done that well at Eurovision. I'm thinking of people like Montaigne, I'm thinking of people like, Katarina Duska from, Greece with Better Love. So, you have people who come with these really modern sounding songs, and then just sort of don't go anywhere because they're not fit. Ticking the box for a certain type. And I don't want to see that happen to Luna because this song is so good, and it it's something I would listen to outside of the contest. [00:21:13] Mike: Yeah, that's interesting that you're saying that, especially because, like, in this semifinal, we also have, Slovenia, and Ireland, and other, Non male, I don't want to say like weird little dudes, just in the sense, because that could also be pejorative, but it's just like, it's, yeah. And, even that is like kind of putting a negative slant on it. It's like, no, that's not quite what's going on here, everybody can be weird. Please let everybody be weird, and, I tried to game out what the running order might be, like, as we're recording this, we don't have the running order yet, and I really think this is going to end up in the two spot, and, uh, I think it's going to come down to what the staging is for this track and like, I'm also kind of concerned about the live performance just because it is so slight is the word I keep landing on with it where it's just not as forward facing as some of the other songs in this So, yeah, I'm concerned about that. Thanks. Semi final. But then when it does come to the staging, it's like, well, how are they going to stage this? And the closest thing I could think of was, maybe something Alice in Wonderland ish, in a way. but then that kind of got me into thinking of the, Video for Tom Petty's Don't Come Around Here No More, and that ends with Alice is a Cake. It's like, oh, could they turn this into a Is It Cake sort of thing on the stage? It's like, well, that would be very 2024. Yeah, so, I don't know, Poland, if you're looking for ideas, it doesn't have to be all video filters. have her running around the stage with a knife cutting into things. It's like, is it cake? No, it really is a bowling ball. I don't know. [00:22:51] Ben: as a person who generally prefers practical effects over CGI, yes. there is something there with this song and like, this is the, I think this is the most I've really clicked with a Polish song in a few years. there's not sort of the obvious area for like vocal runs or sort of the, the gymnastics that we, for whatever reason, associate With, quote unquote, a good performance, but I think that there's a place for like a solidly performed contemporary pop track in Eurovision, and I would love this to do well. [00:23:18] dudepoints: I'm just laughing in my head now at the staging that we're probably going to get, because after what Poland has done to River and to Solo, where they've just kind of thrown everything at the wall, I'm really intrigued, and I hope that Again, that maximalist approach, and not maximalist necessarily in a good way, but that maximalist approach, will serve this song well and get it noticed, at least, and push it through to the final. [00:23:46] Mike: what I like about Luna being the performer here is, I feel like she has a little bit more, uh, artistic intention behind what she does than, like, Blanca last year or, um, guy whose name I can't remember. Yes, Achman. But, but I mean, it's like, that's not, that's not to take away from their talent. It's just, like, the artistry and visual presentation I don't think is at the forefront of what they're trying to do. Achman is a singer, like, he's a classically trained singer. He sings. He doesn't, he doesn't do stage direction. And Blanca is A very successful alumnus from Poland's Next Top Model, I feel like Luna will have at least some input on what is going to happen and wants to have that sort of input rather than just be like, oh yeah, that's somebody else's job. So, I think that is something to be hopeful about, uh, as well. [00:24:39] Ben: I feel like she has much more. creative enterprise around being a performer into, into her art in a way where the other two very much are there to serve the song. It feels like she wants to have like the full creative vision of what this looks like. So, again. I'm, [00:24:54] Croatia - Baby Lasagna - "Rim Tim Tagi Dim" --- [00:24:54] Ben: I'm hopeful. Marko Prisic, also known as Baby Lasagna, will leave his home to represent Croatia at Eurovision with the song Rim Tim Tagi Dim. He was part of the hard rock band Mantra, which we actually discussed in episode 43 when they competed in Dora 2019 and finished in fourth place. Marko left the band in 2022 and released his debut single as Baby Lasagna in October 2023. Originally, BabyLasagna was an alternate for this year's Dora selection. He joined the lineup when a contestant withdrew, and he went on to dominate the scoreboard. He finished first with a jury, but that was a mere formality as he received 53 percent of the televote from the Croatian public. The song has since reached number one on Croatia's singles chart. Rim Tim Tagi Dim is written by BabyLasagna. Legendary band Let3 was the first act since 2017 to get Croatia back to the grand final with their song Mama Sh, finishing in 13th place in last year's competition. Mike, how are you feeling about this one? [00:26:02] Mike: I want to start out by saying I am thumbs up on this one, I understand why it is the favorite, I will not be mad if it wins, I want to go to Croatia, I think the Balkans should have won Eurovision a couple of times since Malifa, there's that, I, want to give myself a pat on the back for not once calling this Rum Tum Tugger, even though that is very, you Very possible to do, especially with all the cats, running around, this entry. Where I have a problem is in the live performance, both the semi final and the final in Dora, when he says the term, city boys, and does the gay voice. there is no way that you can do that voice, where that does not come off as homophobic. that does not happen in the single. in talking with my husband about this, he's just like, well, I mean, he's, like, saying it, like, not derogatory, like, complimentary, it's like, It's still a choice, and it still really chafes me, I'm trying to intellectualize myself around it as much as I can, but it's just like, what, what is the purpose of this choice, and, it puts me on the back foot, and that's why I cannot be 100 percent behind this entry, but, other than that, I think this is doing, What would be expected of a couple of the entries, following Cha Cha Cha, as a Cha Cha Cha clone, it is a very good clone and is like very deserving of the success it has so far. And will probably have, in May. with the actual performance, I think they really need to tinker with the dance break piece of it. Like it just kind of slams on the brakes when it gets to that point because it, it's a little too static for like the first. Portion of that. But, that is a minor problem. It's the, the choice of the city boys thing that I really hope is revisited. 'cause yeah. that is my hangup with this entry. Yeah. No, [00:27:50] Ben: that, that's fair dude. What are your thoughts on this one? [00:27:53] dudepoints: I agree with the Dance Break comments you just made. when they cut to the Dance Break, it's like they're doing a TikTok tutorial, where they're kind of teaching you how to do the Dance Break, and you want it to explode into something more, and yet it never kind of reaches there. I do love the fact that we have a crowd pleasing televote magnet about Southern European migration, in the late 1800s. So the story behind this is probably going to get lost because people are really enjoying, talking about the cats and just saying the term baby lasagna. Um, which still puts a smile on my face every time I say it. I like this song. I think it's a lot of fun. In my house, the song is not universally enjoyed, there have been comparisons to nu metal, which I think is, is interesting and I'm kind of wondering. If we're moving away from kind of that 80s synth pop revival, and if so, are we coming to a late 90s nu metal revival? as somebody who lived through that the first time, I don't know if I want that to be coming back musically. But I do think the lyrics and Baby Lasagna's general charisma carry this song through. I really like the staging styling. Strangely enough, out of all the weird little dudes, he seems the least weird to me. And, I wonder if that might make him more relatable. on the Eurovision stage. [00:29:18] Mike: I would agree with that. I don't know if it's necessarily a new metal revival, the stage performance at Dora, it seemed like it was a cross between like, Adam Ant and, the song Dragula. by Rob Zombie. And it's just like, okay, those aren't like the most serious references, but like, they're smart references. And, and then there's also the Rammstein influence, which it's very interesting that Rammstein is having such impact at Eurovision for like the second or possibly third year in a row. Yeah. [00:29:49] Ben: Yeah, just cause, like, if I had a nickel for every time that there was a Eurovision entry I really liked that was influenced by Rammstein and featured a performer in, like, big puffy sleeves that was selected on February 25th, it's really weird that I have two nickels. Yeah. I like this one so much. I was very effusive in talking about that when it got selected. but one thing I don't think I noted is that I love the way that his, performance outfit is a riff on traditional dress from the area of Croatia he is from. it is that, like, taken to the hard rock, Eurovision version of that, and I love that. I agree with you on the intonation of City Boys, but within how he performs this song live, I like the inflection that he gives, but mostly the cat, as giving it like the little jokey aside twist that it needs. there's Something crazy to me about how this song feels both intensely specific to Baby Lasagna, but also wonderfully universal I did not migrate from an Eastern European country to a more urban area, but like for whatever reason it hits me in the same space from like when I left home for college or when I left home to move out to Boston. Like there's something that I find relatable about that, which is wild. also it just slaps, instrumentally just on every level. because he was a reserve performer, I think he just had less time overall to all of a sudden need a music video and need to have a stage performance for this. So, I think that could explain some of the, some of the things we, we would love to see ironed out. And I do like that it feels like they are doing what the team at YLE did when Karyo won, which is, okay, how do we take this, you know, and make this 10 times as big for Eurovision. So I'm hoping now that they actually have backing and time that they can really think about how to make this even bigger because again we have like a clear televote favorite I would like his live vocals to be a little bit stronger and that's something he can work on and like there are little bits of the performance like I love the overall aesthetic and I would love them to keep that but again just like how do you figure the the version of this that's like 10 times bigger. Yeah, [00:31:50] Mike: and I think that's where Croatia is really going to flex its muscle. Like, I think back to what they did with my friend back in 2017. Like, they went so hard on that one, and it worked. I really get the sense that Croatia wants this. And they've been demonstrating that the last few years. If this is their opportunity, I really hope it works [00:32:15] Ben: out for them. Yes, and as a person who has been joking and yelling, come back Yugoslavia over the last few years. Uh, Yugoslavia's one win was Croatia, [00:32:24] dudepoints: I like this song. But I just want to note, in how the weird little dudes are stacking up, I feel like the Netherlands might have the edge on the night, and I know we're not discussing that song today, I feel like the marketing and the memeness and all that Joost himself is putting behind that song. Can't compare with what Baby Lasagna has. So Baby Lasagna's got a great song, a great personality, lots of charisma. But I think the Netherlands just might have the edge on the weird little dude ness. And That could be what takes them this year. [00:33:04] Mike: I'm thinking we need to come up with a definitive ranking or some sort of taxonomy for Weird Little Dudesness at some point, because, [00:33:13] dudepoints: yeah. Yeah, for me, the Weird Little Dudes are clearly Netherlands 1, Croatia 2, Finland 3, Estonia 4. Like, those are my Weird Little Dudes, that's my Weird Little Dude ranking. [00:33:23] Ben: And I love all of them in different ways. [00:33:26] dudepoints: Exactly, they're all great songs, they're all, like, they're all dudes, they all have weirdness, I think a lot about weird little dudes as somebody who is a dude, [00:33:35] Mike: and [00:33:36] Ben: a little weird. [00:33:38] Cyprus - Silia Kapsis - "Liar" --- [00:33:38] dudepoints: Yeah, [00:33:38] Mike: Australian singer, dancer, and Nick News correspondent Celia Capsis will represent Cyprus with the song Liar. She began performing at the age of three and joined the Australian Youth Performing Arts Company at age 11. Celia released her first single, Who Am I?, in 2022. Now 17, she is the youngest singer in this year's competition. Originally, Cyprus was going to use the reality show Fame Story to find their singer. The show was going to be produced in Greece, which fell afoul of EBU jurisdictional rules, so the plan was abandoned. Cilia was announced shortly after the shift in strategy. This is the second year in a row that an Australian has represented Cyprus. Andrew Lambrou finished in 12th place with the song Break a Broken Heart last year. Liar is written by Dimitris Kontopoulos and Elke Thiel. Dimitris is part of the Dream Team with his most recent Eurovision work appearing in 2021's contest, which included Last Dance by Greece's Stefania and Sugar by Natalia Gordienko from Moldova. So, dude, what do you think of Lyre? [00:35:05] dudepoints: first of all, I am so glad that Cyprus is returning to its girl bopness. Uh, Andrew Lambrou, okay, fine, like, yeah, you've got great arms, okay, fine. Going back to the tradition of Fuego, of Replay, of El Diablo, this is what I want from you, Cyprus. So thank you for delivering. You've got the beefy horns, you've got, dance breaks that actually make sense. It's all there. The second thing I love about this song is that it contains my favorite Eurovision rhyme of the year, when Sillycapsis rhymes ooh la la with truth la la. [00:35:47] Mike: Ben, you're reacting strongly to this? Yes, [00:35:49] Ben: yes, yes, stop reading me notes. Because like, that's what stuck out to me too, which is a choice. [00:35:54] dudepoints: it's great. I'm just, I'm just sad. I think this is the first year we've had a Cyprus video without some obvious product placement. Unless the hotel itself is the product placement. But I miss the cutaway to Vice. I miss the cutaway to Head and Shoulders. Yeah, I [00:36:10] Ben: should check the Panic Records website to see if there's anything, like, if there's, like, the special edition there where we find out it's sponsored by Planters Peanuts or whatever. I'm glad that you called out the Nick News thing at the top of our description of this, just because Between that and then watching Quiet on the set this week, which, uh, heavy watch, very good, but heavy, and then knowing that the part of the team behind this is behind Stefania's Last Dance, both of those songs feel very much in the vein of sort of, your Nickelodeon or your Disney Channel stars, first, Tenuous step into, oh, I'm gonna do music as a career. Let's do sort of a transitional single that. Like, I'm not just a child star anymore. Where it's more adult, but it's still in like a very teen happy area. cause like, you cheated on me and you lied, like it's still very high school. And, this is another straightforward pop song, it feels very contemporary. I find what Luna is doing a little bit more interesting, just in terms of production, just in terms of, like, style of song. But, I'm feeling the same way I felt about this one as I felt about Cyprus last year around this time. Which means that I'm going to see the staging and rehearsals and be like, oh, it's going through to the final. Yeah, [00:37:18] Mike: I'm kind of glad you brought up the quiet on the set piece of it because I've been holding off on watching that until after we discussed this entry just because I, I really wish Eurovision would raise the participation age to 18. number one, I just, I don't like talking about kids information because, like, there's no telling what level of input they have, What they agreed to, what they're being told to do, particularly, with the way this is being styled, and I mentioned this when we talked about it when the song dropped, it's giving me, like, very early Britney vibes, and, it's just making me very uncomfortable, all of that aside, like I'm just really kind of confused about the construction of this entry, like why is Cyprus going to Australia to get their artist and is there something external to Eurovision, like is there some sort of trade agreement that Cyprus and Australia is working on, I don't know what the relationship is there. I'm not saying like it's like nefarious or anything like that, but it's just like, it's, it's weird. And thinking of like the pop girlies that Cyprus had, uh, that, that you had mentioned, dude, it's just like, well, is there nobody in Cyprus who could have done this song? Or like, is there something with the broadcaster that they maybe burned some bridges that is making it more difficult for them to find local talent so I'm just kind of concerned about the state of Cyprus at Eurovision at the moment the song it's fine I do find all of the other entries that we talked about today to be much more interesting much more relevant but maybe that's just because I'm not a teenager in high school I just don't find this all that relatable, there's just this ickiness about it, it just feels so corporate and forced and manufactured, I can't get into this one, and I'm, now that we've discussed it here, I'm probably not going to listen to it much until we get to rehearsals, there's just more interesting things to me, in the semi final one playlist. [00:39:19] dudepoints: I'm really fascinated. by this, because, again, this is a classic Eurovision entry to me, but unlike Moldova, if I've got to listen to a classic Eurovision entry, I'm always going to choose the one that's going to be the dance bop, So, that's one reason why I like this, but getting back to the point around mental health and safeguarding and duty of care, Eurovision, in particular, doesn't seem to have the best record on that. Over the past few weeks, we've heard stories about, the way that Lazara was treated at Eurovision 2023, with the broadcaster, you know, making her dye her hair, And it sounds like some pretty horrific things went on. Mae Muller from the UK has pretty much quit performing after what she went through at Eurovision 2023. And looking at what happened to Viktor Vernikos, who was 16 years old and failed to qualify, and I broke down crying in the green room and had that broadcast around the world. I think we do need to kind of ask ourselves, what is the duty of care that Eurovision has to its participants? And there are a lot of questions about that right now, but how do we make this a show that we feel comfortable participating in as fans, ethically? Knowing that the people who are entertaining us are treated well, and I think it's, it's just, I, I really worry, especially about the younger contestants, because this is something they're going to live with for the rest of their lives. Yeah, [00:40:49] Mike: and I mean, especially with someone like Celia, who's been performing, like, this has been her entire life, and if this experience Does not go well, what then? [00:41:02] Ben: it's just kind of a gray area that I don't love. But, like, it is, it's worth talking about. [00:41:07] Mike: I like, Dimitris work product, at Eurovision, a lot of his songs are, like, of this mold, where it is, taking, a pop starlet and, giving them, a very strong pop song. And I think, this song in the right hands could work. this just feels like a real mismatch. To me, but, it'll probably do fine, like, the performance goes well, great, like, I mean, it, it's going to be an intense performance in the sense that, like, the dance break is going to be heavy duty, and if it's successful, I think this entry is going to be really [00:41:42] dudepoints: successful. one other point to make is that, out of all the songs we've discussed today, this is the only one where, The performer hasn't been involved in the songwriting, and I think we're seeing more and more Eurovision songs written by performers. So when you do have somebody who is kind of given a song and told, perform this, we're seeing it with people like Tali and Luxembourg, it can feel kind of artificial, especially if they're not able to embody the emotions that are in the song. So I can see why there might be that distance in a way that you don't feel with other songs, where people are genuinely pouring their own hearts and souls [00:42:23] Mike: into it. [00:42:23] Ben: I think it's an excellent point. it feels like there has been a trend With what does well at Eurovision, it feels like it has a very personal connection to the performer because they're also a writer. So, it's very interesting to then go back to a song where it is someone performing a song that has been written by somebody else. [00:42:38] Final Thoughts --- [00:42:38] Mike: All right, so, dude, what other songs are you really excited about in this year's contest? [00:42:44] dudepoints: I'm really excited about, Switzerland and The Code, which is just fantastic because again, it's maximalist in the best way in that so many genres are shoved into three minutes and I cannot wait to see how Nemo performs them all, It's not like a Jacques Houdek situation where he's doing, it's, it's, it just goes beyond that. It takes Jacques Houdek to the nth degree. [00:43:08] Ben: Jacques Houdek walked so that Nemo can fly. Yes. [00:43:12] dudepoints: I'm excited about Europapa, which is, again, in my, uh, I, I listen to that every single day. it's just a great song. Dizzy, by Olly Alexander, is also another one, because it's got those bells! Again, it's the little sound effects that get me! I'm one of the few people in the world that's excited about Dizzy. And then, of course, Bambi Thug from Ireland, bringing that witchy energy, which Is just great, like seeing goths at Eurovision, and real, real goths, not like Hot Topic goths, or like Avril Lavigne goths, it's, it blows my mind, so there's a lot I'm excited about this year, though. [00:43:53] Mike: thank you for joining us to talk about these five entries. do you have anything that you'd like to plug? [00:43:58] dudepoints: I'd like to plug my website, dudeplod. fun or dudepoints. fun, where we review all the entries and then just write about the competition. Yeah, just talk generally a lot about Eurovision and weird things about Eurovision because I am a weird little dude. [00:44:16] Mike: Excellent. We will have a link to that in the show notes. And that's going to do it for this episode of the Eurowhat. Thanks for listening. The Eurowhat podcast is hosted by Mike McComb, that's me, and Ben Smith. [00:44:31] Ben: That's me. If you'd like to help support the show and access a ton of bonus content, head over to Patreon. com slash [00:44:36] Mike: Eurowhat. Our full coverage of the 2024 Eurovision Song Contest can be found on our website at Eurowhat. com. You can also follow us on social media at Eurowhat. [00:44:46] Ben: Next time on the Eurowhat, we finish semifinal one and chat about Serbia, Iceland, Australia, Portugal, Azerbaijan with our special guest, Meredith Clark. [00:44:57] Mike: is it cake? No, it really is a bowling ball