229 "Authenticity" === [00:00:00] Chris: I was listening to the songs in my apartment and telling my girlfriend when I got up to get a drink of water, can you tell I'm listening to Eurovision songs? Are you enjoying the oonce oonce oonce of the beats I'm listening to right now? [00:00:19] Ben: Hello, and welcome to the Eurowhat, episode 229, dropping on April 30th, 2024. We are a pair of Americans trying to make sense of the Eurovision Song Contest. I'm Ben Smith, and I'm here with my co host, Mike McComb. Hey, Mike. [00:00:33] Mike: Iben. [00:00:34] Ben: In this episode, we'll be talking about Sweden and the big five auto qualifiers with our special guest, Chris Molanphy. Hey, Chris, [00:00:40] Chris: Hey guys, how are you? [00:00:42] Ben: doing well. How are you? [00:00:43] Chris: I'm all right. I'm ready to be schooled. [00:00:46] Welcome, Chris Molanphy! --- [00:00:46] Ben: Excellent. So the question we ask everybody who comes on the show and thank you for joining us, by the [00:00:51] Chris: Sure. [00:00:52] Ben: how did you get introduced to the Eurovision song contest? Like what is your knowledge level? [00:00:58] Chris: This may surprise people who know that I host a podcast about pop chart history. Honestly, my Eurovision knowledge is rather passive. I've sometimes been asked by Hit Parade listeners if I would ever do an episode about Eurovision, and the two strikes against that are A. There's been so precious little crossover of Eurovision songs in America, and I, you know, not to be a yank chauvinist, but I pretty much focus on the American charts with some British charts thrown in, and B. my knowledge is rather limited. I would say I got introduced to the whole concept of Eurovision in the 90s when I was following billboards charts. I started following billboards charts in the 80s and by the 90s, The main chart columnist at Billboard, a guy named Fred Bronson, who's the writer of the Billboard Book of No. 1 Hits, which is a legendary tome in my circle. He would throw in Eurovision trivia in his column in Billboard all the time, and I gradually got up to speed on what this whole thing was. And around that time, I think Gina G's OOAA just a little bit had crossed over in America. And he was making a big deal of the fact that I think it peaked in the top 20 on the Hot 100, which is a huge deal for a Eurovision song of any kind. Yeah, that was sort of the beginning of my understanding of what Eurovision was. And then in the aughts, just for reasons that had nothing to do with music, my then wife and I took a trip to Sweden. in, uh, 06, and I got fairly steeped in their, pop culture. At the time this was just after Lordi, who of course are not Swedish, but nonetheless there was great pride in Sweden that there was a Scandinavian winner of Eurovision. They were still sort of charmed that Lordi had won, so I, I remember having conversations about the improbability of Lordi's win. And since then I've gotten myself a little more up to speed, but I, I don't watch it. I, you know, I enjoyed the Will Ferrell movie for whatever that's worth and, uh, that's about as far as it goes. [00:03:08] Mike: I mean, it is a documentary in some ways, like there are a number of jokes in there that are inspired by true events. So, it's, yeah, [00:03:17] Chris: It feels true to life to an extent. [00:03:19] Ben: It was surprisingly more reverent than I expected a comedy using Eurovision as its premise to be. [00:03:25] Chris: Reverent and earnest. [00:03:26] Ben: Yes, [00:03:27] Chris: it's funny, but I wouldn't call it snarky. It's satirical, even, but yet somehow not snarky or cynical, which I admired. [00:03:35] Ben: the Gina G thing is interesting, because chart wise, that was it for Eurovision coming anywhere near the US charts up until recently. [00:03:43] Chris: Yeah, and I mean, the other thing that was happening in the 90s was what I'll call the Renaissance of ABBA, where ABBA, through the late 80s, were sort of terminally uncool, and as Gen X aged into, um, Our late teens and 20s, ABBA became cool again when ABBA Gold sold piles and piles of copies in America and around the world. And then the legend of Waterloo and what they did in 1974, if I have the year right, you know, preceded them. I mean that, that's just, that's as good as a Eurovision story gets. [00:04:16] Mike: absolutely. So, yeah, it's great that we're going to be talking about Sweden, in this set of songs. Listening to the songs, what were your kind of overall first impressions? [00:04:27] Chris: You know, this is gonna sound snider and more cynical than I mean it to, but when I listen to Eurovision songs, I often feel like I've been zapped back to like 2011. It's kind of like the EDM pop boom never ended. I was listening to the songs in my apartment and telling my girlfriend when I got up to get a drink of water, can you tell I'm listening to Eurovision songs? Are you enjoying the oonce oonce oonce of the beats I'm listening to right now? And she got a huge kick out of it. I mean, I don't think there was a song in the bunch I actively disliked, I'll say that. I think I at least liked all of them. But some of them are doing something a little more cutting edge than others, in my general opinion. [00:05:08] Ben: This set is the group that has already made the finals. So this is the Big Five, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, the United Kingdom, and then our host nation this year, Sweden. The Big Five have been doing better in terms of song selection the last few years, but there's like a chip on everybody's shoulder when it comes to, like, the voting on these, because, like, they made it through. [00:05:30] Chris: Right, and so explain to me the machinations of this, because this always mystifies me. Because they are the big five, they're pre seeded, as it were. [00:05:38] Ben: Yeah, so, like, these five nations are contributing the most financially to the cost of putting Eurovision on, so as a thank you for that, instead of getting, like, a nice little commemorative tote bag, they get automatic placement in the grand final. [00:05:51] Chris: Which, to your point, then makes some of the voters a little cynical that, like, these are the privileged nations. Ergo, they better come with something world beating, otherwise we're probably going to deliberately vote them down. Am I being too cynical asking that question? [00:06:06] Ben: I mean, uh, [00:06:08] Mike: I mean, it wouldn't be voting them down. That is one thing about Eurovision is you are voting for songs. You don't vote against anything. But in terms of like the pulse of the average televoter, I don't know if it can get that granular. Like I think there, there may be some people who are just like, Oh, I'm never going to vote for Germany because of, you know, So, [00:06:37] Chris: I mean, I suppose the interesting question would be, and maybe you guys know this off the top of your head or maybe you don't, how often have the big five won in the last, I don't know, 25 years? [00:06:47] Mike: Italy and Germany are the only ones to have won, since they've had this automatic entry into the grand final. France has done well, Spain not so much, Germany has, even though they've won, they have struggled quite a bit the last few years, UK, if UK did not have the Big Five status, I'm not even sure if they would still be in the contest, they were having that rough of a go the last 25 years. [00:07:15] Chris: Wow. [00:07:15] Ben: The last five years, France has had a second place, the UK has had a second place, Spain has had a third place, and that was the same year as the UK, second place, where like, both of them got their act together. Uh, again, Italy had a win, but yeah, so like, there's been some, some high highs, but it's been a lot of low lows. 2021. [00:07:33] Chris: win, may I say, uh, I am a huge fan of Zito Eboni. that was not only my favorite Eurovision song of at least 10 or 15 years, but it was my favorite song of that year period. I was a huge, huge fan of that song. Like I actually ranked it at the top of my singles poll that, what was that, 2020? 2021, that sounds right. I, I realize people have mixed feelings about where Maneskin have gone since then, and the album was not spectacular, but, I just thought Zitti e Buoni was a, a killer song, and I was delighted when it won. Maybe I'm showing my, my bias there, for whatever it's worth. You would never know this from my Irish last name, but I am Italian on my mom's side. Cuban on my dad's side, so I've got a little Latin and I've got a little Italian, so when the Italians won I must say I was kind of chuffed about [00:08:22] France - Slimane - "Mon Amour" --- [00:08:22] Chris: that. [00:08:23] Ben: Nebci is a singer, songwriter, and actor who rose to fame after winning the Voice of France in 2016. He has released four albums, three of which reached number one in France and have also reached the top of the charts in Switzerland and the Walloon region of Belgium. Slimane spent two seasons in the coach's chairs on The Voice Belgique, where he coached Elliott, who would go on to represent Belgium at Eurovision in 2019. Slimane also coached Oceana, the act that won the first season of The Voice Kids Belgique. Last year, Evidemment, by Lazara, finished in 16th place. France surprise dropped their entry Mon Amour in November, making it the first selection of Eurovision 2024. Mon Amour is written by Slimane, Yaacoub Salah, and Meir Salah. France will be voting in the second semifinal, and the showcase performance will happen between Czechia and Austria. Chris, what did you think of this one? [00:09:28] Chris: I liked it. Is it fair to say that this is, let's call it a post Duncan Lawrence arcade kind of ballad? It's got some of that drama, a bit of the torchiness, I watched the music video, and I find him a compelling singer to watch. He really puts his all into the performance. But, in most regards, the song feels like your garden variety power ballad. It wasn't my favorite of the bunch, but I liked it fine, I guess I would say. [00:10:00] Mike: Yeah, I think I'm in kind of the same headspace with that, where this is exactly what France wants to send every single year. The fact that they dropped it in November, I don't think makes a difference, like, they would have dropped this exact same thing, zero changes, in March. [00:10:16] Chris: How much does the advance drop matter in the promotional scheme of things? Does it? [00:10:21] Mike: I haven't done a deep dive on this, and it is a topic that I want to explore. I don't think it helps, but I don't know if it hurts, like, just in terms of shelf life, and like, what the lifespan of a single is. I understand why France probably dropped early, it's their broadcaster is also dealing with the Olympics this coming year, and various other international programming that, I think they just wanted to get this off their plate as soon as possible. Fortunately, I think the song is holding up, and like, Sliban has been doing the work promoting the songs, uh, making visits to other national finals. He did a New Year's Eve performance in front of the Arc de Triomphe, of this song that was, really riveting. the performance that he did at Dora, yeah, the last part of the song, I can't remember if it was just the chorus and verse, but he did it fully a cappella. They could hear it. Outside the arena, it was that, powerful. It's making me curious on what his performance is going to be at Eurovision, but, it seems like they have a plan that they didn't just, like, write him a check and be like, hey, we'll meet you in Malmo, in the hotel lobby, hopefully, if we can make it. [00:11:31] Ben: When we discussed this, when it surprise dropped in November, and we were not expecting any drops until maybe December, we had jokingly said, oh yeah, no, they've got the video package now, they can just send it to the pre parties, we're busy. It is just sort of like the platonic ideal of what France wants to send to Eurovision, just they're sending a male balladeer this year instead of a torch singer. He is selling the heck out of this song, but the song is just kind of fun. It's by the numbers, like, there are various entries this year that I keep thinking of as, figure skating routines, cause there's some where they really have all the quads, and this one is a lot of artistry that's hiding the fact that it's kind of just a very straightforward song. [00:12:08] Chris: I would agree with that assessment entirely. I find him more compelling than the song, honestly. [00:12:12] Ben: oh yeah, no, like, I have in my notes, he's a great singer, I just wish the song was more interesting, and like, the live performance from Dora, I'm wondering if they're gonna do that same stepping away from the mic and just like, blasting it with his voice in the final would not surprise me if they do. Even though I had not like, re read our bio and knew that he had been through the voice, I'm like, this is a very voice winner thing to do, of just, sort of, reality TV winner. Powerful voice. I mean, maybe that's just like from, from like years and years of American musical competition program. [00:12:42] Chris: Well, it's funny you say that because one thing that was leaping to mind, and this may sound like a weird digression, weird analogy, but during the decade when I actually watched American Idol, back in the aughts, there was this progression that happened where the first, say, five years, you had this nice variety of different types of people winning. And then all of a sudden, sometime around year five, they started allowing performers to play instruments, and a progression of fairly boring cute boys just kept winning, and it was kind of like people were voting for the performer like, oh I'd like to take him home to my mom, rather than anything they were performing, you know, the famous example is the perfectly nice Chris Allen winning over Adam Lambert in whatever year that was, 08, 09, I can't remember. The analogy I'm making here is Slaman is It's fascinating to watch as a performer, but, you know, the material just is what it is. It's almost like, are people voting for the performer or are they voting for the song? And the song is not all that interesting. [00:13:44] Mike: my last note on this song was that this is the most old school entry in this year's field, so I think it is gonna have an advantage for people who want, like, there are people who still want the orchestra. At Eurovision, uh, rather than the pre recorded tracks, and I think that this is going to appeal to that kind of audience member, but I, I think there's still enough modern about it and attractive, magnetic, magnetic might be the way, to describe Sliwot, and it's just like, okay, yeah, I'm, I'm interested in what you're selling, what else do you have? Like, I, I don't necessarily want this, but I, what, what else is in your catalog? So. This is one where I'm excited about the showcase performances, because that is something that is new this year, where the big five countries, and the host country will be performing during the semifinals. They're not being voted on, but they are going to be mixed in with the lineup of the other entries. The home audience is going to have a chance to see what the stage of performance is going to be like before the big final show on that Saturday. Like, I think this is one where if that performance goes really well, it could create enough buzz going into the Saturday show. [00:14:59] Chris: Do you guys find that there are voters, to your point, that They, they, there's a block of traditional ballot voters, and that's what they're looking for, and they're voting that way. [00:15:10] Ben: Trying to figure out the voting blocks at Eurovision is always interesting. Uh, but like, are, like, are people looking for a certain song? Or, like, there's a lot, like, there's always the, the notion of people are, nations are voting for their friends nationwide as well. [00:15:23] Chris: A little bit like the Kremlinology behind Oscar voting, like, are they actually voting for this performance, or are they voting because Robert Downey Jr. is a nice guy, you know? [00:15:31] Ben: Mhm. [00:15:31] Mike: Right. [00:15:32] Chris: voting for this song, or are they voting because, you know, oh, it's Germany, and I like Germany, or I don't like Germany, hence I'm not voting for this, etc. [00:15:40] Mike: Right. Apologies to Germany, we don't need to make you a punching bag, but you have earned it the last few years. [00:15:46] Ben: Yeah. [00:15:47] Chris: there's probably got to be a block of voters who are not voting as a block, they're not coordinated, but they are looking for a traditional ballad, they are looking for the equivalent of, what's that song from the mid 70s that competed in Eurovision, Ed Astu. [00:16:00] Ben: II, [00:16:01] Mike: yep. [00:16:01] Chris: They want another Ed Astu. [00:16:03] Ben: Yeah, they just want that big, lush, orchestral ballad, and like, that's what, this one sort of fills that niche. I'm not sure I get a winner vibe from this one, but like, I feel like if this goes well, just slot him in into either like the opening or closing ceremony of the Olympics. [00:16:19] Chris: Sure. [00:16:20] Ben: Like, lyrically, this is like pleading with a lover, but just like, I, like every time that I've listened to this song in the days leading up to chatting about this, and maybe it's just that the Olympics are coming, I just think, I'm just like, they're going to, like, he's going to show up. [00:16:31] Chris: Right, why wouldn't they? I mean, he's handsome, he's fun to watch, he's compelling. I found myself stirred watching him sing the song even as the song wasn't knocking me out. [00:16:41] Mike: France got their money's worth. Their, their, their plan worked. So, uh, good, good for them on that. [00:16:46] Spain - Nebulossa - "ZORRA" --- [00:16:46] Chris: Right. [00:16:48] Mike: Spain will be represented by Nebulosa and their song Zora at Eurovision. Maria, Mary Bass, and Mark D'Souza have been married for over 20 years, but did not form as a synth pop group until 2018. In 2022, they auditioned for Una Voce per San Marino, but didn't get any traction. Mary secretly applied for Spain's Benidorm Fest for 2024, and it worked out quite well! They won their semi final, and received top marks from the expert jury and the public televote in the final. The win was controversial, given the song's title having misogynistic and possibly vulgar connotations. The commissioner of RTVE, as well as the prime minister of Spain, have defended the song, and the EBU has not required any changes. Since winning Benidorm, Nebulosa visited Miami and performed during a morning show on Univision, the largest Spanish language network in the United States. They also collaborated with Gloria Trevi on a Dora remix that they debuted at Radio City Music Hall in March. Dora is written by Mark D'Souza and Miria Bas. Last year, Spain's entry Ieiaia, Blanca, Paloma finished in 17th place overall, but was last in the televote. Spain's showcase performance will take place in semifinal two between Latvia and San Marino. So Ben, what do you think of Zathura? [00:18:24] Ben: All right, uh, I was hoping I was not gonna have to be first on this one, just because I, like, I appreciate what this one is doing. I really like it lyrically, what it's doing, and I wish I liked the music that went with those lyrics more. And I also love the live performance. I've been watching the live performance because, for whatever reason, the studio track just, like, bounces off of me, just like, nope, nope. We've 80s revivalism has not done well at Eurovision. this particular strain of, 80s revivalism for whatever reason, it's just not doing it for me with this one. I think it's a good choice for Spain, after Aya Aya was not what the Tel Aviv wanted, even though I thought it was very cool they were doing some flamenco stuff, so this feels like a nice pivot. I really like that it feels like it's taking sort of a page from what did well for Belgium last year. And I think that's not a bad strategy, but like, I have just sort of resigned myself to, this one's not for me. I think it's a good choice for Spain. I have no clue what the larger fandom is going to think of this one. It's not for me. [00:19:25] Mike: Chris, is this one for you? You [00:19:31] Chris: the set, but I was terrified. Tapping along with it. And maybe I'm just an easy lay for 80s revivalism. I got an AniMotion vibe from it. There was a moment where the synths really gave me that obsession glow. I'm not calling it the most creative thing in the world, but it worked for me. In terms of the title and the controversy, I mean, Zora, uh, I, or in Spain Spanish, Zora, it's like Zorro with an A at the end of it, basically means bitch, and in one sense you could liken it to the 90s Meredith Brook hit, Bitch, that is trying to reclaim that word, I mean, reading along with the English translation, it's definitely trying to make her sound like a, a saucy man eater who But, I found it entertaining, not to be very mundane about it, but, you know, it pushed my buttons. They're fun to watch. I watched the music video, and uh, Mary, you know, she knows how to slink around very compellingly, so I don't know if I'm saying anything terribly creative there, but that, those were my impressions. [00:20:38] Ben: I mean, like, I also just, like, love their story that she applied secretly for Benidormfest. Like, that's, that's great. Lyrically, I just have the words Hot Girl Summer written in my notes. Having read the translation, I'm just like, I, again, I want to support it more than I do. [00:20:54] Mike: know how I feel about 80s revivalism in general, but particularly at Eurovision, it's just, like, it just has not been working, which is why I am shocked that this is my favorite entry this year. Yeah, I just ad Dora this song. And I do agree with you, Ben, the live version is much better than the studio version. I think it's, like, Mary's voice has this smokiness to it that I think really adds to the story of the song, and the studio version is polished to the point where you just cannot hang on to it. I really am responding to the story of the song. There's this webcomic, that's been around, I think it's been like 20 years, uh, Dinosaur Comics, where it's, six panels, it's the same six panels every, yes, uh, and there was one that came out, I want to say this was like 15 years ago at this point, but it was talking about, the Walk of Shame, and how that's a stupid name, it should be called the Walk of My Night Didn't End at 1030, and I think that this song has that same sort of vibe. To it. And yeah, like every time I listen to it, I feel a little bit radicalized or like, just really just be like, yeah, yeah, you tell them. And I don't want to say it's not going to do well. I also have just kind of the question mark, which is like, how is this going to do? And is this really going to connect with people? It really connected with people in Benidorm. I think. Part of that may just be, like, the audience at Benidorm is, very queer friendly, and this is a song that I think really applies to, uh, at least in my experience, in the gay community. Like, just kind of weird sexual dynamics and politics and, uh, just general ick that this song is talking about, uh, directly. So, with Eurovision, even though the arena audience Eurovision, Also going to probably skew more queer friendly in terms of like the home audience. It may not hit quite as hard. I am tempering my expectations. I'm hoping that it gets onto the left side of the scoreboard, but, things will have to line up in a very particular way for that to happen. But that's okay. I still love the song. So, [00:23:03] Chris: I thought I was going out on a limb saying I liked it. I thought I was just being a cheap date, but I'm glad to have a backup on that. [00:23:11] Ben: What's weird for me is, I generally enjoy the 80s revivalism, so I've been trying to, I've been sitting with the song going, okay, what is it about this one that doesn't work for me, and I can't figure out what elements? Because again, lyrically, like it, this is the sort of thing I like musically, why is this one not working? [00:23:25] Chris: It's not for you, as you said before. [00:23:27] Ben: Exactly, and like, yeah, it's just realizing that there are many songs in this Eurovision, and they don't all have to be for me. [00:23:33] Mike: I do want to say that I'm worried that if this doesn't do well, that this might cause Spain to reconsider Benidorm format that they've been using the last few years. I don't want that to happen. I think this is continuing in the list of interesting choices they have been sending to Eurovision featuring at Benidorm. Without Benidorm, we would not have Magura representing San Marino, I don't think. [00:23:58] Ben: Banadorm has been doing very well, I agree that like if this doesn't do well, I don't want them to reconsider that, because yes, you got one Chanel out of it, but you also What Blanca Paloma sent last year was really good, even if it wasn't the room's whole deal, have produced three very different, very interesting songs, that are all very good. [00:24:17] Mike: Yeah. [00:24:18] Chris: Am I going to be boring the crowd if I ask to have Benidorm explain to me? [00:24:22] Mike: Oh, no, not at all. Um, Benidormfest is a week long music festival that, they brought it back from a hiatus, three years ago, and decided to use it as their way of selecting, their Eurovision entrant. In 2022, the song that was selected ended up, placing third, at Eurovision. So it's like, alright, yes, the format works! Last year's entry was very artsy, and, Maybe a little too conceptual for a general audience, so it just did not really connect, even though it was really visually stunning to look at, The festival itself is, structured very similarly to Eurovision. It's a combination of jury voting, demoscopic voting, and, televoting to determine the winner. [00:25:04] Chris: I see, and so because the format is similar, yet the vibe is a little different, it kind of gives an interesting, different take on, it's like a parallel version, you know, a parallel universe version of what if on Eurovision. [00:25:18] Mike: A little bit, yeah, and also, like, Spain is very, uh, I would say they're one of the more idiosyncratic countries when it comes to Eurovision, like they have very particular, tastes, things that are very strong in like Spanish identity. are really popular at Benidorm, or, in the various selection processes that Spain has used. But then when it gets to an international stage, you don't necessarily have the historical context, the, cultural context of that, and it may not translate well. as well to the general audience. So Spain tends to struggle at Eurovision as a result. Like, they've, they've been in the contest for over 60 years. They've only won twice, and that was back in the late 60s. So it's been, yeah, like, they, they have struggled quite a bit. But they also have one of the most enthusiastic fandoms I've, in, Like not just in Eurovision, just like in the realms of fandom, like they will be 100 percent behind their entries, even if the entries are just not going to go anywhere. But it's like, nope, we're still good. We're still going to support them. So always keep an eye out for the Spanish fans in the audience. [00:26:27] Ben: There is an, yeah, there is an end of year thing called the ESC 250. That, theoretically, is supposed to be just sort of a fan voted on countdown of everybody's favorite songs. There's, like, a lot of recency bias, and, for a while, the 2012 winner was just sort of the de facto, you know, that it's gonna be number one. And a couple years ago, the Spanish Eurovision fandom, through a lot of coordinated voting, crashed that. [00:26:51] Italy - Angelina Mango - "La Noia" --- [00:26:51] Chris: Wow. I guess you can't gainsay that kind of enthusiasm. [00:26:55] Ben: Italy has named a woman! Angelina Mongo will be Italy's representative in Malmo with her song La Noia. The 23 year old singer released her first single in 2020, and competed in the 2023 edition of Amici di Maria di Filippi, winning the singing category and finishing second overall. In February, Angelina competed in the Festival di San Remo. Throughout the festival, Angelina ranked in 1st or 2nd place, receiving top marks from the various juries but usually running 2nd in the televote rankings. During covers night, she performed the song La Rondine, a song made famous by her father. Angelina would go on to win the festival, the first woman to do so since 2014. Lenoya also won the festival's Press Room Award and the award for Best Composition. Lenoya is written by Angelina Mongo, Dardust, and Madame. Dardust is also on the writing team for Luxembourg's entry. Last year's entry, Duovite by Marco Mangoni, finished in fourth place, giving Italy its sixth top five finish since returning to the contest in 2011. Italy's showcase performance will be during the second semifinal, after Estonia, and before Israel. Mike, how are you feeling about this one? [00:28:18] Mike: I like this one. I've liked it since it first debuted at San Remo. We were watching the videos individually, we were not trying to watch the six hour presentation of Night One. And after watching the video for her performance, my husband was just like, oh, wow, well, I think I know which one I'm rooting for this year. And we still have like 15 more videos to go through just from that one night. But yeah, like the song, I think it's fun. It has a Real youthful energy about it. even if you don't understand Italian, the story of the song coming through, pretty clearly. I think my concern with this is that juries seem to love this, but the audiences kind of, eh, in a lot of ways. Like I was looking through the rankings on. how the voting was playing out, in San Remo, and the audience support is there, but it's not overwhelming, I know this one is in the favorites conversation for this year's contest, I'm not sure if that's going to pan out, I'd be happy if it did. enjoy this track, and I hope it does well. [00:29:21] Chris: I don't know if anybody's gonna think I'm in the tank for MyHeritage or something here, but this was my favorite of the set. I really think this is a banger. I think it's also the most original combination of styles and sounds. for one thing, the beat at various stretches almost sounds like reggaeton, and yet, you know, it's not Latin, and yet the melody sounds very Italian to me. this is a weird analogy, but like, it reminds me of how, you know, In the early 80s, when all of these Umberto Tozzi songs were getting re recorded by the likes of Laura Branigan, you could still tell the melodies were fundamentally Italian, and there's still a fundamental Italian ness to this melody that I really like. And as for Mango herself, Angelina Mango, she's got flow. I mean, the thing that to me is the most cutting edge about this record is that it almost exists in a post Drake world or a post Beyoncé world where singing in cadence is a tantamount to rapping, and yet she's not rapping exactly, but there's a real syncopation to her singing that I find very appealing and very current, actually. So yeah, this one worked for me on a number of levels. [00:30:28] Ben: Italy is always spoiled for choice, with Sanremo. this one was in my little pack of favorites, like, with what little of it I could watch, due to time differences. But I was rooting for her, I was rooting for Annalisa. this one has grown on me the more I listen to it, and this, I think it's like the same kind of mixture of, of things. Because like, there is a sense of flow, there is a sense of percussiveness. [00:30:49] Chris: The percussiveness, yeah, yeah. [00:30:52] Ben: Typically, the thing that I associate with Italian music is that it tends to be matchy matchy, and that lyrically and musically, if it's happy, it's happy. If it's sad, it's sad. this one, lyrically, is kind of on the sad side, but it's very up tempo, it's very peppy, it's very cool to see them do that. I am really interested to see, what they do with the staging for this one. The San Remo format, everybody's in that theater and, You occasionally see some stage stuff going on, but, like, a lot of the time it's very much just, like, performer performing their song with the orchestra. And I feel like staging has not always been Italy's strong suit with the contests, especially since they've come back, their songs have been very solid, and they've, you Occasionally had some, some interesting staging ideas, but their stagings tend to be pretty straightforward. It's like, when Maneskin won, it's like, Hello, we're a rock band, we're performing our song. that was a great performance, and it was what we, we wanted, but like, this one, I don't know what they're gonna, like, I, I have a hunch it's gonna be a pretty straightforward performance, cause it's what they do. [00:31:49] Chris: Which is weird because what, one of the things I found compelling, I watched the music video. The music video is giving post Billie Eilish vibes to me, uh, with a sous son of Lady Gaga. You know, it is, it is admirably weird and even queer, I would say. and it would be a pity to lose that on stage because, The eclecticism and the, I'll just say, weirdness, the slight weirdness, is part of what I find appealing about it, and you don't want to tamp that down too much. [00:32:21] Mike: It seems like Angelina, is someone who has a very strong point of view and wants to express it. And that is so unusual for Italian entries. Like it is usually these like very powerful singers. Like, I mean, Mahmoud has kind of that same sort of vibe, but even his performances felt really kind of straightforward, I think? I wouldn't describe them as, great examples of staging, and I think this song has a lot of staging potential, so I hope, I do hope that Italy takes advantage of that. [00:32:53] Ben: I'm just thinking of the performance when he was their entry a few years ago of Blanco just sort of like stomping into the back of the stage. [00:33:01] Mike: Like Godzilla? Yeah. [00:33:02] Ben: Yeah, like Godzilla, and just that could've used a little bit more staging behind it. So yeah, like, I like the song, I want Italy to showcase it to its best potential. [00:33:11] Chris: agreed. [00:33:12] Mike: Chris, it was my guess that that one was going to be your favorite in this set, so. [00:33:16] Chris: I guess I'm a little predictable, but I mean, it just, um, it feels like a song from the 2020s, and I say that with an, with admiration. It feels contemporary. It, it did not feel like a pure throwback, even though it's got little elements in it that could be a throwback. It, yeah. The, the amalgamation of all those elements really makes it feel contemporary. [00:33:34] Germany - ISAAK - "Always on the Run" --- [00:33:34] Chris: I, I was impressed with it. [00:33:36] Mike: Guderian will be Germany's Eurovision representative with his song Always on the Run. Isak started his music career as a street musician. His first TV appearance was back in 2011 when he auditioned for X Factor Germany. He started composing music during the early stages of the pandemic and would go on to win the program Show Your Talent in 2021. Germany's national selection, Das Deutsche Finale, featured nine songs. Isak won the international jury, receiving top points from the UK and Austria. Isak also won the public vote, guaranteeing his ticket to Melmo. Always on the Run is written by Greg Taro, Isak Guderian, Kevin Lehr, and Leo Salminen. Last year's entry, Blood and Glitter by Lord of the Lost, finished in last place, though it was the first German entry since 2018 to receive points from both the jury and the public. Germany's been struggling, y'all. Isak's showcase performance will be in the first semifinal between Iceland and Slovenia. [00:34:53] Chris: I think I'm going to invoke a phrase Ben used before and say this one was the one that was not for me. I didn't out and out hate it. I actually think the melody of it is quite strong. But here's what gave me a bit of a swift pain. There is something going on in the top ten in America right now that I have Colloquially dubbed the jellyrollification of the American charts. There are two songs competing in the top five right now, one by Brendan Boone called Beautiful Things, the other by Teddy Swims called Lose Control, that are both husky voiced, husky built man, singing something he's real real impassioned about. frankly it's unfair of me to call it the jellyrollification because I actually like jellyroll to an extent, but, um, there's this Husky voice, male approach, uh, who like really, really means it, man, that seems to be having a moment right now, and I'm not a big fan of it, and I'm hearing it all over this record, That said, maybe that will play. with the audience in the year of our lord 2024, who knows. it doesn't play all that well for me, but I found the song pleasant and the melody is fairly sturdy, so I'll say that for it. [00:36:07] Ben: song, I can picture the exact moment that each of the four of the voice judges would hit their button and the chair would turn around. It is just such a voice audition song. I like him as a vocalist, but he deserves a better song than this. I had not heard of the, the jellyrollification trend, but I think when this one first came out, I described him as Rag und Bonmann. Just like riffing on Rag and Bone Man from the UK. And just like every time I listen to this song I just sort of like mentally tune out halfway through because it's like I know where this is going, I know how this one ends, and like it hits all the beats you expect it to. [00:36:39] Chris: I totally agree. [00:36:40] Ben: this type of song on autopilot and like this was definitely the best of Germany's choices this year. I'm glad that they have already decided that, a different wing of their national broadcast system is taking over their selection process next year. Because this pro like, what they've been doing on, I think it's NDF, has not been working. So, like, it's time to, like, put somebody else in charge. I feel bad about last year because Blood Glitter was so authentic and was such a good choice, and it just got nothing. [00:37:09] Chris: Can you tell me what Blood and Glitter was like? [00:37:11] Ben: Germany basically sent a metal act, like very pop metal honestly, just like glam metal. the front man of their band was just like, in, just like red latex outfit. Just like full metal band makeup, full pyro. Just like, yes, this is what Germany should be sending, this feels like what they want to send and it just got nothing. [00:37:31] Chris: Wow. So it was to the German version of hair metal what Maneskin was to the Italian version of indie rock or something like that, or alternative rock, sort of like a vintage sound filtered through a national I don't know, vibe? [00:37:46] Ben: Yeah, like it was, it was like on the same level I'd say as like a Lordi in terms of like how metal it was. [00:37:52] Chris: Right, because what I loved about Lordi was how theatrical it was. It was almost, it was almost gwar like in its shamelessness, which I kind of admired. It's a pity that that didn't work again. I mean, it really didn't work. They came in last place for crying out loud. [00:38:06] Mike: Last year really felt like it was, right song, wrong year. Like, if Germany had sent that the year before, two years before, I, or, in place of Gendrick, like, that thought occurred to me earlier this week. It's like, oh man, like, the universe would have been so different if that were the case. I don't want to say the song has been growing on me, but It's been the one that's the most earwormy of this set as I've been preparing for this conversation. And think lyrically, this is telling the story of Germany at Eurovision right now, where it's just like, just trying to get through the mental process of, like, what are we doing here? It's like, I don't know. And the husky. It was reminding me of going to, like, karaoke bars in Ohio, uh, and, uh, where it's just like, but, like, with, with people who, can sing and who are, like, really, like, really good at karaoke. And I think, like, I don't want to, like, frame, Isak as, like, a karaoke singer because that, that has, like, such a negative connotation to it. But he is a good singer. The song is fine, not particularly challenging. And, like, I think I can get the. not to get the crowd moving, because that's not what this sort of song is, but get the crowd on their side, or at least paying attention while they're getting fresh drinks or something? I don't, I don't know. But, uh, yeah, I think this is going to be one of the songs that could benefit from the showcase performance setup, where, uh, if it's, uh, I've already forgotten when it's set, oh yeah, it's in the first semi final. So, if People see it on Tuesday night. If they're going through that same sort of earworm thing that I've been going through the last few days, they may, like it more by the time that they have the chance to vote for it on Saturday. There are a couple of other songs, in this year's contest that are of the kind of gravel, husky voice, I've got a song to sing and I really mean it, uh, aesthetic, [00:39:59] Chris: I use for this is, and I use it in scare quotes because I kind of think it's BS, is authenticity. It gives authenticity to a certain type of listener, like this guy really means it, man, and I think there's a side of me that's kind of allergic to that. which is, I think, part of what was rubbing me the wrong way about it, and you're right, he's got a good voice, he's a good singer, he really is, but, yeah. [00:40:23] Mike: maybe this could reach a particular set of the audience that is really going to respond to it, and I just don't happen to be in that part of the audience. I think this is just a very long winded way of saying, please, Germany, score some points. I just want you to score points. Like I don't want you to win, especially with this particular [00:40:43] Ben: especially with this one. [00:40:44] Chris: So if this ends up in the middle of the pack, that would almost be the ideal outcome, basically. [00:40:48] Mike: Yeah, even then, that seems like a real reach, uh, now that it's been said out loud, but it's like, if they can get to 19th place, I think that would be [00:40:57] Ben: Yeah. If they're, if they're not in the bottom four [00:40:59] Mike: Yes. [00:41:00] Chris: Wow, okay. [00:41:01] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Like Germany has been in the basement for the last five years and, I just want them to get some fresh air. I don't know, but yeah, I, this year might not be it. [00:41:14] Ben: in attempting to say something positive about the song I continue to appreciate the absurdity of the elephant noise out of nowhere in the chorus. [00:41:21] Chris: Yeah. [00:41:22] Mike: It does make me giggle every time I hear it, so [00:41:24] Ben: It's, it's, yeah, like, it feels like the YouTube remix that someone has done to just, like, when they're doing a supercut of, like, [00:41:32] United Kingdom - Olly Alexander - "Dizzy" --- [00:41:32] Ben: Eurovision 2024 was so crazy. The United Kingdom has tapped actor and Years and Years singer Olly Alexander to be the representative at Eurovision with the song Dizzy. Oli's first on screen role dates back to the film Summerhill in 2008. He's had roles in the West End production of Peter Pan, the final series of the show Skins, but his most notable role was as Richie in the miniseries It's a Sin. As a musician, Oli joined the group years and years in 2010. The group's debut album, Communion, reached number one in the UK and number 47 on the US charts. In 2021, the band morphed into a solo project for Oli, With the band name and catalog fully transferred in 2023. In a sign that the BBC is still fully committed to Eurovision, Olly was announced as the UK act during the performance finale of Strictly Come Dancing. Dizzy is written by Olly Alexander and producer Danny Harrell, and will be the first single released under the name Olly Alexander. Last year, the United Kingdom served as host of the contest on behalf of Ukraine. Unfortunately, their entry, I Wrote a Song, by May Muller, finished in 25th place. The UK showcase performance will happen in the first semifinal, between Ireland and Ukraine's performances. [00:42:53] Chris: It's interesting, in theory, Oli and Years and Years, the Norm da Band that he basically now is, should be catnip for me. And weirdly, between the two 80s throwbacks in the pack that we're evaluating today, this was the one I liked a little less. I think it's fine. It's thumping, and Oli has star quality. It seems to me that The UK is coming to play, even picking him, because he's got a name, he's got star quality, he's scored massive hits. You know, when Years and Years, fronted by Oli, in the mid tens, had their moment with these big hits in the UK, I mean, these were like number one hits in the UK, like King and Shine, and these were big dance hits in America, they didn't do anything on the Hot 100, but they were like big on the club charts, I really liked them a lot. And since then, it's kind of been diminishing returns for me with years and years. I remember when, um, Olly teamed up about, I want to say two years ago, maybe three, with, Pet Shop Boys. And I worship Pet Shop Boys, and when I heard that this existed, I was like, Oh my God, this is instantly going to be my favorite song. And I listened to it, and after a couple of listens, I'm like, Why do I only like this? Why do I not love this? so similarly, I, I should, Th Love this and I just very much like it. I'm having a hard time putting my finger on why, but it's some of the same reasons that some of years and years as music has left me a little cold for the last, say, five years. So, I don't know, take that for what it's worth. Noodling. [00:44:28] Mike: be liking it more than I do. The overall structure of it just really kind of reminds me of For some reason, I keep thinking of the movie Tootsie, where it's like, towards the end of the birthday party scene, and they're just kind of like noodling on the piano, and the party's wrapping up, you're playing music, but you're keeping it quiet because the neighbors are going to be asleep, because it's like two in the morning, and it feels like this song might be a product of that kind of Creative process? Yeah. And the track is a little bit sleepy or like a little bit more sleepwalking in terms of technique and just kind of like, oh, yeah, like I can just do this, not putting 100 percent effort and 100 percent maximalism into the track, which I think is an interesting choice this year, given how much maximalism will be happening at Eurovision. So this has the potential of being a real palate cleanser. In the overall field, but I think that having something that is so laid back gives the potential for a better future. Thank you. Very strong, like, let me phrase this differently, I think the canvas is blank enough for what the performance could be, even though the track is kind of sleepy, what is going to happen on stage could end up elevating it in a way that is really going to get a response from the audience. But if it's just him, behind a microphone jamming and, not really doing anything on stage, I don't think that's going to work. But I also don't think, being on a spinning platform for three minutes is going to be all that interesting either, so I feel like I'm still kind of withholding judgment on this one. It's like, I need like a little bit more information before really deciding how I feel about this as an overall entry. think the components are there. I just don't think they've been fully assembled yet. Yeah. [00:46:21] Ben: at some point during a song called Dizzy, this is like a couple years ago when they had a song called Embers and they weren't gonna have any pyrotechnics. [00:46:28] Chris: What are we even [00:46:30] Ben: are we, yeah, what are you doing? [00:46:32] Chris: Come on, [00:46:33] Ben: Do you know what your job is? [00:46:35] Chris: I think the problem, too, is that it's a song called Dizzy, and it's not a terribly dizzy song. It should be giddier than it is. I mean, the word Mike kept using was laid back. A song called Dizzy should not be laid back. [00:46:47] Ben: I think we're three for three on I should like this more than I do because, like, I really liked that first Years Years album, and, like, there's a Danny L. Harl remix of Shine that I love. So, like, when I heard that those two are working together, I'm like, oh, heck yeah, this is great, the UK's taking this seriously. And I should like this more than I do, like, with Years Years, I liked their first album a lot. I liked their second one a little bit less, and I didn't really click with the one that was secretly a solo album. It turns out that I liked the other two guys in Years and Years a little bit more than, [00:47:16] Chris: I was gonna say, bluntly, I have come to the conclusion that there was some chemistry in the years and years that Oli was fronting, but not the whole package of. That I just. Don't like as much when it's basically his glorified Panic at the Disco type project. [00:47:32] Ben: There's a Vivo Discover, DS, CVR, whatever, of him singing this song, and it was like, as a live vocal, where I'm like, Okay, thank goodness he can sing it, because I, like, last year, the UK picked what felt like a strong radio track that it turned out that May Muller could not perform live. You So, like, I feel like they at least learned from that. They've got somebody who can sing this song and can sing it well, which I, like, again, it's not, I agree that it's not, the most challenging, and I'm hoping that because it's not the most challenging, they can step up whatever the staging is. [00:48:02] Chris: to Mike's point, like it's a tabula rasa that they might be able to do something with on stage. [00:48:07] Ben: Yeah, they've got a good bass, and hopefully they can elevate that a little bit. they're taking this seriously. my understanding is that, like, Strictly Come Dancing is the program in the UK, so the fact that they announced him there, like, that's big news. Like, They're still doing this, and like, Daniel Harl, in theory, he's gone from being one of the guys in PC Music to working with, Dua Lipa, to working with big pop stars, so, feels like it should be more of a slam dunk than it is. It might just be, like, this one could just be, good song in the wrong year. maybe, like, a couple years from now, it'll be like, oh, this would've fit better here. I also appreciate that this one, compared to some UK entries in the past decade, does not feel, quote unquote, Eurovision. Does not feel like it was written for the event, that it feels like it's an actual Pop song. [00:48:52] Chris: It does, and it's the kind of pop song where if I heard it wafting in a club, or this is going to sound like the biggest insult, but playing in the background while I'm shopping retail at a mall, I would bop my head along to it. I would not think it was exceptional, but I would like it fine. And that's kind of the vibe I'm getting from it. [00:49:09] Ben: Oh, yeah. No, this would be an excellent grocery store song. [00:49:12] Chris: Right. Or an H& M song, you know what I mean? Like, [00:49:15] Mike: Mm hmm. [00:49:16] Chris: clothes shopping at the mall. That's the vibe I get from it. [00:49:20] Mike: Yeah, [00:49:20] Ben: Yes, [00:49:21] Mike: that has been coming up more and more this year, and I didn't really realize it until, like, I think we have mentioned that about one song each episode this season. I was just like, oh yeah, you can absolutely, like, hear this, like, in a coffee shop somewhere or, yeah, just in the background. [00:49:37] Chris: It's like, it's the new version of that old Simon Cowell insult. This is the kind of song you would hear on a cruise ship. Like, it's, it's [00:49:43] Sweden - Marcus & Martinus - "Unforgettable" --- [00:49:43] Mike: Yeah. [00:49:46] Chris: Yeah. [00:49:47] Mike: Identical twins Marcus and Martinus Gunnarsson won Sweden's Melodifestivalen with the song Unforgettable, and will represent Eurovision's defending champion Sweden. The boys, who are originally from Norway, won their home country's Melodi Grand Prix Junior in 2012. They've released three albums so far, All of which reached number one in Norway and paved the way to being a support act for Jason Derulo in 2018. After they won Masked Singer Sverre in 2022, the duo made their Melfest debut in 2023. Their song Air nipped at Laureen's heels on the scoreboard, but they had to settle for second place. At this year's Melfest, Eminem dominated the jury and the televote, guaranteeing a road trip to Melma. Unforgettable is written by Jimmy Joker Thornfelt, Joy Debb, Linnea Debb, Marcus Gunnarsson, and Martinus Gunnarsson. Jimmy Joker is also on the writing team for Austria's entry, while the Debs co wrote Malta's song. Sweden earned its seventh win in Liverpool with Tattoo. tying Ireland's win record, while Laureen became the second performer ever to win Eurovision twice. Sweden's showcase performance will be between Moldova and Azerbaijan in the first semi final. As the host country, they have already drawn their position in the grand final and will be opening the show on May 11th. [00:51:28] Ben: first Chris. I have a question just based on the most recent episode of Hit [00:51:31] Chris: Sure, shoot. [00:51:32] Ben: Are Marcus and Martinus a boy band? [00:51:35] Chris: I mean, they definitely give boy band. There's energy there. [00:51:39] Ben: Yes. Well, [00:51:40] Chris: Two, two members. [00:51:41] Ben: Yeah, two members is the tricky [00:51:42] Chris: That's the tricky part. All the boy bands I talked about, nobody had fewer than three members. You know, Jonas Brothers are about as small as it got. So that's, that's the hard part. Part, but yeah, in every other regard, they definitely give boy band. [00:51:55] Ben: Yeah, it's very much. Yeah, it's very much boy band I'm not sure it's like current boy band though, like as someone who has been getting progressively more tired with Sweden's process the last couple years. I'm delighted that this is opening the show and that the song is called Unforgettable, just because it feels so bland and forgettable to me. The staging is the most interesting thing about it for me, because the, this expanding wall thing, and Sweden always does, these very large stagings, and will bring them exactly as they were in their national final to a stage that they then had to figure out how to shove it in there. And like, I'm kind of amazed that given what we've seen of this year's stage design, they're still doing that at their home Eurovision. I don't know what to do with this one. Like it is, it's professional. It feels like Spotify filler to me. [00:52:40] Chris: I am definitely more positive on this one than Ben is. I think this is probably my second favorite in the set. Professional is the right word. I'm not sure it's a pejorative. Frankly, I was scouring the credits of this one to see did Max Martin or anybody from his associate team, you know, from whatever his studio is now called, were they affiliated with him? Because it's got melodic math To use that tired Max Martin phrase, up the ying yang, it's so well balanced, almost to a fault. I like what's going on with the scattering synth in the background that's kind of providing counterpoint while they're singing on top of it. If I may compare it to something else Max Martin had a hand in, it reminds me a little of what The Weeknd was trying to do with, succeeding in doing with blinding lights. It's got 80s technopop energy, but kind of Refurbished for something more current. It's giving me Swedish energy, and I realize they're Norwegian, but it's giving me Swedish energy in the best sense of like, God, these guys know how to throw a pop song together. I mean, it's just kind of, it was instantaneously pleasurable for me. So I'm not claiming it's reinventing anything necessarily, but I see why it's in the competition. [00:53:53] Ben: as the reigning champion of Eurovision, you want to send a song That proves that yes, we should have won last year, but isn't too good because then you'd have to run it again. [00:54:02] Chris: Right. Fair point. [00:54:03] Ben: And like, I think that fills that brief. [00:54:06] Mike: I guess I have to talk about it now, huh? Um, like, I don't actually have any notes, in my little text file here, just cause, this just feels like the same thing that Sweden sends every year or tries to send every year. And I think Sweden's just not for me. Like, I, I just find this boring and expected. I understand, like, Why it works, I'm just like, it's just not for me. [00:54:34] Chris: It works, and so what? [00:54:35] Mike: I think it is hitting like all of the, what is kind of expected at Eurovision, just like the electronic ness of it and the visual presentation, but like, it, it just, it feels like it doesn't have a soul. Like, it feels like it's just kind of like a plastic doll of a song. I probably should have written something down just so I could better articulate this, but it's just like, eh, whatever. most listeners of this show will know that, like, I complain about Sweden just about every single year. And it's just like, I feel like I'm saying the same thing year after year. this is the Swedish industry, like the Swedish pop music machine in full effect. And they're good at what they do. And you know, There's nothing surprising about it. And maybe that's where I'm disappointed in. And that is just like, Oh yeah, like this is what Sweden will send this year. They will send a variation of this next year. The year after that, it will be kind of two degrees removed, but you can still see that this was like the original version of that. and this year's version is an evolution of two years ago. So, I mean, it's just not, it's just not a recipe that I'm interested in. [00:55:45] Ben: Like, I feel like a couple years ago, they sent Cornelia Jacobs with Hold Me Closer, and that felt like a, a potential new road for them, or like, there was There was some soul in her voice. It felt like it was playing to the template Sweden likes, but like there was just enough new. There was like, oh, they're trying some new stuff. And it felt like after that, which that did well, they've just sort of gone back to their comfort zone. [00:56:08] Chris: Including what won last year. [00:56:10] Ben: As soon as Loreen got announced last year, Loreen won in 2012 for Sweden with Euphoria, and that's the song that's been the top of the ESC 250. Essentially, for a decade afterwards, where, it's good, it is a solid pop song, it is a very good 2012 pop song, but I think that there has been more interesting stuff at Eurovision since then. I think Sweden thought that they had something with Cornelia Jacobs, and then she placed, I think, like, fourth. Okay, so did well, but, maybe wasn't, the smash Sweden thought they had, so like, okay, we're gonna bring in the big guns. There is, some Pepe Silvia esque all the red strings connecting the conspiracy theories together going, Oh, this year is the 50th year of ABBA winning, so Sweden wanted to ensure they would win, and I don't think that there's any, no, you can't, you can't orchestrate that. But, like, Loreen's song, of, last year, Tattoo was fine, but it's sort of Sweden on autopilot, As soon as she got announced in the lineup, it felt like a predestined deal that she was going to go to Eurovision, and if she went to Eurovision, she would probably win. Uh, both of those proved to be true. But, from, like, the contest perspective, it became clear that it was going to be Laureen versus Karya's Cha Cha Cha, which Tattoo was very smooth, Cha Cha Cha just like had a lot of texture and a lot of visual interest, and like, you knew that Sweden was gonna send the same thing that they sent at their national final and there was, I don't know, it was sort of the expected versus something new. Heh [00:57:33] Chris: I don't know if I'm experiencing what I will, pun intended, call Stockholm syndrome, um, where years of reviewing efficient pop songs has led me to appreciate that kind of craft, and maybe I'm just not as sick of the Swedish machine, and it is a machine, as you guys are, given what y'all call it. I took one listen to this and my first thought was this is very professional and efficient and damn these guys can throw out a good pop song. And I even found it interesting in as much as, again, that counterpoint between what the electronic track is doing underneath and yet the sort of Metronome like vocals on top that that hit my pleasure centers But maybe I'm just a a soft touch for this kind of thing because it works on me and has worked on me You know, I just got done writing about Ariana Grande a few weeks ago who gave Max Martin his I think 24th and 25th American number one hits with songs that are not too far removed from what we're hearing here and to varying degrees I liked both of them. I particularly like the one she's in the top 10 with right now. But it's, it's all about presentation and uh, maybe I've, I've just been inured enough to it that I'm like, all right, well done. Way to play the game. [00:58:53] Mike: the analogy that I've come up with is, Sweden is kind of like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. And, like, you have these ingredients. There's only so many different ways that you can rearrange those ingredients to get, different sandwiches, different Presentations of that sandwich. And the problem with Sweden at Eurovision is it is a very small conclave of writers that are working on these songs. It's not the full Swedish machine. So I think if you were like looking at it from like the full Swedish landscape, there is variety in there. Like there are more than seven songwriters in Sweden, and even though like, All seven of them happen to work on all of Sweden's Eurovision songs. So I think the fatigue that I'm experiencing is because it really is the same cast of characters just getting rearranged every single Whereas, I think, like, if you're looking at it from, the general pop music landscape, there is a little bit of variety. It's like, okay, it doesn't have to be a peanut butter and jelly sandwich today. It could be a ham sandwich or a salad or something else. Like, as far as I know, Robin has never written a song for Melodifestivalen, and I don't expect that to happen. But like, that is a different flavor of Sweden. [01:00:10] Ben: Yeah, yeah, and like on my end, because like I generally like what comes out of the Swedish pop machine, and I think I'm just getting really irritated with like the same three songwriters that show up on every Melfest song. [01:00:20] Mike: Hmm. [01:00:21] Ben: Because yeah, yeah, like the, most recent Ariana Grande single, really like that, Robyn's stuff, but like those are different songwriters, and like I'm not even opposed to like the Max Martin of it all. Jimmy Joker and the Debs are are very good, and like, they very clearly have like a cottage industry of writing Eurovision songs, cause like, we're seeing them with with We're seeing them with Malta. [01:00:42] Chris: And Austria, according to your notes here. [01:00:44] Ben: Yeah, like, where they pop up across all of the national finals. Like, it may just be like a specific voice that seems to dominate a lot of the conversation when it comes to Eurovision songs. [01:00:56] Final Thoughts --- [01:00:56] Mike: Chris, thank you so much for joining us, in this conversation. are you planning on watching this year's contest or, uh, engaging with Eurovision beyond this? No. [01:01:06] Ben: six songs. [01:01:07] Chris: Uh, I hadn't planned on it, but now I have more of a rooting interest and I try to keep one eye on it now each year because I'm, I'm interested to see, and there's been more crossover recently, you know, you, you've seen some, Hits from it cross the pond, and that interests me. so, yeah, I, I try to keep an eye on it, more than I did 10 or 20 years ago, and now I, I actually have something of a rooting interest, so that'll, that'll help as well. [01:01:36] Ben: Hmm. [01:01:36] Mike: Excellent. [01:01:37] Ben: Yeah. Uh, is there anything you would like to plug? [01:01:40] Chris: Well, uh, of course Hit Parade is, uh, available on all your podcatchers. We put out a new episode each month, uh, you can either listen to it in two parts if it's ad supported or in one part if you become a Slate Plus member, and if you're a Slate Plus member, uh, you get to hear a bonus episode, uh, which is a bridge episode Trivia and an interview. I write the Why is this song number one series for Slate. Like I said, I wrote about Ariana recently. I wrote about Kendrick Lamar just a couple weeks ago. And finally, I have a book out that just came out about six months ago called Old Town Road, named after the song of the same name by Lil Nas X, which it turns out is a prism for the history of the charts and genre and race and all of those fun things. So, uh, if If this kind of conversation interests you, I, encourage you to pick up Old Town Road. [01:02:26] Ben: Yes. Yeah. No, it is. It is real good. it is such a good song to look at so many different lenses of the pop industry through. [01:02:32] Chris: Right, and if you're engaged in this conversation we're having about Beyoncé and country music this year, my book is the book for you. Anyway, guys, thank you so much for this. It was really a blast and I was honored to join you. [01:02:46] Mike: Oh, thank you, and we were honored to have you, like, this was, this was such a joy, so [01:02:51] Ben: Yes. All right. Well, that's going to do it for this episode of the Eurowhat. Thanks for listening. The Eurowhat podcast is hosted by Ben Smith. That's me and Mike McComb. [01:03:01] Mike: That's me! Our Patreon supporters will be getting our Semi Final 2 Megamix this weekend. Check out patreon. com slash eurowhat to sign up before the episode drops. [01:03:12] Ben: Our full coverage of the 2024 Eurovision Song Contest can be found on our website at Eurowhat. com. You can also follow us on social media at Eurowhat. [01:03:19] Mike: Next time on the Eurowhat, it's Eurovision week! We do one last check of the news and make our picks for the Semi Finals.