223 Encarta === [00:00:00] Sam: the cat bus shows up, and then Everybody in the room just points at the screen like, like DiCaprio, and is like, Catbus! That's how I feel about the Jorts egg. [00:00:25] Ben: Hello and welcome to the Eurowhat. Episode 223 dropping on March 19th, 2024. We are a pair of Americans trying to make sense of the Eurovision Song Contest. I'm Ben Smith and I'm here with my co host Mike McComb. Hey Mike! [00:00:37] Mike: Hello. [00:00:38] Ben: In this episode, we'll be starting our deep dive of Semi Final One with our special guest, Sam Gavin. Hey Sam! [00:00:43] Sam: Hey guys, how's it going? [00:00:44] Ben: Good! Uh, welcome to the show! [00:00:46] Welcome, Sam Gavin! --- [00:00:46] Sam: Thank you so much. It's a thrill to be here. I've listened to a ton of you guys. Um, especially love your American Song Contest bonus episodes. I'm the only fan. [00:00:54] Ben: our descent into madness. [00:00:56] Sam: That was so fun. I think my favorite thing was when you guys went from episode one, left feeling like, really, kind of like, you know, on a positive note, and then you came back for episode two, and you guys just wanted to die. [00:01:09] Mike: I don't know if it got that bad. [00:01:10] Ben: I mean, it was pretty immediate, though. And also, I think part of the magic of those ones is that we were generally recording five minutes after the show had ended. [00:01:19] Mike: Emotions were raw. [00:01:20] Ben: Yeah. [00:01:21] Sam: the after, the afterglow, [00:01:22] Ben: Yeah, just, yes, that's what that was. An afterglow. so Sam, you are the music intern for Today in Tabs, a fantastic email newsletter. you and I also know each other from the Pop Justice 20 quid prize jury a couple years ago. The one thing I remember is that we were in a Zoom room with a bunch of British people who were used to, trancy music, and we were very much arguing for Danny Harl. [00:01:45] Sam: I think by the second run through, the second year, that I became part of that judging process, which was like a lifelong dream, don't get me wrong. You know, I always priced plates every year to like go in and sit down in that pub and yell with everyone else, but I learned sort of I guess the way that British people put forward their opinions is very different than how I might Step forward with one of mine, and I think last year I I chose to recuse myself Because I don't think that I could have done it justice. [00:02:19] Ben: What is your experience with Eurovision? How did you get introduced to the contest? [00:02:22] Sam: do you guys remember Microsoft Encarta 95? [00:02:26] Mike: Oh, yeah. [00:02:26] Sam: Okay, they also had a movie one and a music one, I don't remember, I probably should have looked up what they were called. But the music one had a bunch of clips on it, and I played them religiously because we didn't have the internet. One of them was the ABBA performance of Waterloo, I believe from Eurovision. So that was like my first experience, was this delightful, campy, iconic performance. And then in college I became aware of, Hard Rock Hallelujah, which was a perfect song, and that was sort of my reintroduction to Eurovision alongside, you know, all of the other music competition shows that were happening then and sort of like reviving that format on American television. once Peacock got the rights, I was like, well, I mean, listen, I'm America's number one Peacock premium subscriber, so I might as well take advantage of that. And, um, it always happens around my wife's birthday every year. Let's have me in the grand final. And so we just took the whole week off and we have people over and just have a grand old time watching everything. And, um. You know, I mean, not, not, not treating it like a sports match, but also just, um, yeah, having a lot of, a lot of fun with it. A lot of our, our, our own little sassy opinions and, it's a good tradition. [00:03:41] Mike: Oh, that is so awesome, yes, and it's kind of funny that your origin story is probably going to play out in a couple of the entries that we were talking about today, uh, spoilers, so [00:03:52] Ben: Yeah, this is like a weirdly nice group of songs for Encarta to be the start point. [00:03:58] Sam: Yeah. Yeah, [00:03:59] 🇸🇮 Slovenia - Raiven - "Veronika" --- [00:03:59] Sam: absolutely. [00:04:01] Ben: We always have like the awkward period at the start of this where we don't actually know the official running order yet. And this time, instead of doing things alphabetically, we're doing things in terms of when things were released. And the first thing in semi final one. That we got word of was Slovenia's entry from Raven, Veronica. So, Sara Brisky Sermon, uh, who goes by the stage name Raven, will represent Slovenia with the song Veronica. A classically trained harpist and opera singer, Raven has attempted to represent her country several times. She was the runner up in the 2016 and 2019 editions of Slovenia's EMA selection process, and also finished third in 2017. Originally, there was going to be a new process for 2024 called Misia Malmo, but RTVSLO pivoted to an internal selection. Veronica of Dusanese, the subject of the track, was a countess accused of witchcraft in the 1400s. Although acquitted, she was murdered by drowning, supposedly on the orders of a rival of her husband. In speaking about her song, Raven said, I think of Veronica as a symbol of femininity. Maybe not stereotypical feminism. But femininity and grace for sure. Veronika is written by Raven, Peter Koo, Martin Bezjak, Klaudia Kopina, Danilo and Bojan Svetokanin. Bojan is also the lead singer of the band Joker Out, who represented Slovenia in 2023 with the song Carpe Diem, which finished in 21st place. Oh right, I have read what is not the Inkarta entry, but definitely feels like it. Sam, what did you think of this song? [00:05:44] Sam: I loved the drama. I think my notes, they say drama. And I think that's a, the main thrust of the song is, is the production and the performance, the structure of the song bothers me. I don't think it has much of a first hook. I think once you get to that post chorus where she talks about Veronica, that's two minutes in, I timed it. I'm worried that there's not enough, fast enough, I mean it's a, if it's a three minute song, it's not gonna grab folks, I watched that live performance which is just her on the piano, which is so different, has such a different vibe from the recorded version. Version and that was stunning. She has the range. I mean she has the pipes for all that and obviously she was able to command The audience with so little so i'm very curious how much of the uh, the video production we get if we get the drowning naked guys, Where we'll we'll see what what happens with that, I think it would make sense as an opener maybe of of one of the videos The segments, um, just because there's so much production behind it, and it's such, an attention grabber. But I also think as, uh, from the, the pop song structure of it, she holds back for too long. [00:06:59] Mike: So, this one was one of my early favorites, granted it was one of the first songs selected, so, uh, it was very easy to fill that role, but, uh, it's one that's kind of stuck with me throughout selection season. do agree that it does take a while to get to the fireworks factory of the song, I think I prefer the studio track more than the live performance that she did at Dora, but I am glad to hear that, You really liked the live performance one of the reasons that we bring guests on for this part of the show is just like we're so in the weeds with these songs over the course of the season that it's hard to get that sort of outside perspective it's like but wait how do other people actually feel about these tracks and it's like it might just too close so um yeah so it's i'm glad to hear that the unplugged version seems to be working and [00:07:51] Sam: if, I can respond to that, I mean, I, I think that what made me feel so good about that live version is that it was clear that she had that presence and those vocals that didn't necessarily require more. The extreme production presentation of the studio track, which I, if I were going to sit down and listen to something, I'd rather listen to the studio track. I don't, I'm not a, I'm not an acoustic version guy, but it was great to see that she has sort of that backbone of star power and vocal strength to be able to be a contender. [00:08:26] Mike: Absolutely, yes. I am very curious to see what sort of combination and what the ratio is going to be, because I believe the plan is to release a revamped version at some point, and I'm wondering if the live performance at Dora was just kind of a test to see, should we go full acoustic? I'm hoping it's not full acoustic, I hope there's still a little bit of the bombast of the Eurovision. like, original studio version. but I can see how that kind of does need a little bit more of the demonstration of, like, the natural talent that is there. now that we have the full field, I'm still really optimistic about this one. And I'm hoping it does well the contest. I'm hoping it qualifies. And I I have a good feeling that it will. [00:09:12] Sam: I agree. [00:09:12] Ben: Yeah, I would also agree. Yeah, like, I like the Dora performance as sort of a presentation of her bona fides of like, yes, I can sing this, yes, I do have the range, yes, I do have the star presence. the acoustic performance felt like, okay, well, they've got a, they've got a piano, we can just do, like, the, a little bit more stripped back, we don't have to bring, like, three dancers. But like, you've got sort of some of the base elements of what I would not be surprised if we see at the staging, covering the stage in a bunch of fog, uh, having her look like a beautiful mermaid that's like, clad in like, the ocean washed bones of her enemies. The pieces are there, I would also like something a little bit closer to the studio version, because I think there's like, some real power in the instrumentation there, even if it does take a while to get there. But I think if they, if they stage this well in a way that really leans into the drama of all of this, I think it's a, like, we have a lot of weird little dudes in the contest, and this is, this is like a wonderful sort of palate cleanser that's not forgettable. [00:10:12] Sam: The thing that really jumped out to me in both performances, but especially in the live piano one was she does a, um, I'm going to try to not blow out your, she does a, right right before that first bridge, like the Bruno Mars 24 karat magic, like, like the, the Gucci Mane, like, what is that? Is there context for that? Or is that just like a cute thing that you think she does or [00:10:38] Ben: There's a very fun video of her chatting with Baby Lasagna, the Croatian entrant, where she's like, I like that your song also has that little trill to it. [00:10:47] Sam: well, maybe that's the meme and, and you know, that we're going to get a bunch of that in the Peacock coverage from, our guy. [00:10:53] Mike: Oh, Johnny Weir. [00:10:57] Ben: He's gonna be doing like, yeah, he's gonna be doing so many of those, yeah. [00:10:59] Sam: The hyper fixation, which listen, listen, listen, I mean, same. [00:11:04] 🇮🇪 Ireland - Bambie Thug - "Doomsday Blue" --- [00:11:04] Mike: Every time she gets 12 points, it'll just be another one, so. Bambi Rae Robinson. Who performs as Bambi Thug, won Ireland's EuroSong competition, and will perform Doomsday Blue in Malmo. The 30 year old singer, originally from Cork, identifies as non binary, and uses they them pronouns. Growing up, they studied ballet, but moved into musical theater after suffering an injury. Drawing inspiration from breakups, witchcraft, and drug addiction, Bambi describes their sound as Ouija Pop, and hyperpunk pop. Avant Electro Pop Grit Pop Rot, if you know, you know. Bambi Thug was the clear winner of Ireland's Eurosong, finishing first with the national jury in Televote, and placing third with the international jury. The Irish Far Right, longtime Eurovision fans I'm assuming, have dismissed the entry as Woke nonsense, while Eurovision veteran Johnny Logan expressed optimism that the track could win the contest. Doomsday Blue is written by Bambi Thug, Olivia Cassie Brooking, Sam Matlock, and Tyler Ryder. Ireland has not qualified for the Eurovision Grand Finals since 2018, with last year's entry We Are One by Wild Youth finishing 12th place in the first semifinal. So, what's next? Ben, what are your thoughts on Doomsday Blue? [00:12:43] Ben: This one has been really interesting to kind of keep re listening to. I need to find a way to listen to be able to hear this song for the first time every time I hear it because like the more I hear it the more I'm like, okay, I get what it's doing. This is the best thing that Ireland has sent in years. But when I watched the live performance, which admittedly it's the performance from The Late Show, which rivals Studio 8H for just poor sound quality. Just, just not being the venue for a live music performance. When I compare it to what's going on in the studio track, there's a lot of talk singing happening. Just a lot of Rex Harrison is happening, and it's not the last minute or so of the song It's clearly some space for like a dance break or just like the moment on stage where it's all of the strobe lights And we're really just finishing it stronger I'm just like okay But like what if you did whatever this song's version of a key change would be of like really hammering it home in that Last minute before the the repeated Avada Kedavra. I would like Ireland to do well just because I want to encourage whoever did this year's Eurosong lineup to keep their job because they did a very good job. But this one is kinda fading for me, and I didn't think that was going to happen. Yeah, Sam, you are coming into this fresher than I am. What do you think? [00:14:01] Sam: You know, Bambi Thug, I heard the name before I heard the song, and I heard just now you say their real name, which was Bambi Rae Robinson, am I getting that [00:14:12] Mike: Yes. [00:14:13] Sam: That's such a badass name. I understand not wanting to get, like, confused with Carly Rae Jepsen, so maybe this is my bias showing, but like, we're starting from a place of Gen Z can be cringe too, perhaps it is. A international misunderstanding of the word thug for me. That jumps out to me as a white coated performer. I don't know, man. I mean, that's not really my, my, my ax to grind, but it sort of set me, on my back foot thinking about like, well, what kind of nonsense is this going to be? Right. Does that make me an old man? I don't think it makes me right ring. I don't know what woke would even mean in this context, as opposed to describing someone who is non binary, I mean, the, the frames of reference for me are the mean girls thing from the music video, which fine, sounds a lot like Marilyn Manson, the syncopation from beautiful people. Don't love that as a frame of reference. Feels like everything feels very Amanda Palmer adjacent recently. That's not great. I don't know if this is just like. sort of a resurfacing of the stuff that I thought was cringe when I was a teenager. I don't know. The, the thing that passes for the chorus, the little major key part where everything changes and they're wearing like bright clothing, that is such a cool little nugget in the rest of the song, which is just like really just paint by numbers sub Billie Eilish. I mean, it's just, it's not, I'm not feeling it. I didn't realize I disliked it. Until I just started talking [00:15:47] Ben: Yeah, [00:15:48] Sam: video shows that they have a sense of humor, right? Cause you know, cause there's a lot of like cute little wink, winks in the video. Obviously someone who performs like that in public is willing to not take themselves terribly seriously. It might be, it's like camp adjacent, but if I had just heard this song. I would have been like, this is like, I don't know, Willow or something like where they just take themselves incredibly seriously. So I think from the standpoint of the song, I don't think it's there, but I think there's enough heat on it that it'll probably make it through. [00:16:22] Mike: Yeah, I, I think I'm in the same boat. the word that kept coming, um, up in my notes was juvenile. And I think it is like hitting the same cringe aspects from like when I was in high school and Marilyn Manson was big at that time and like I can't really take Marilyn Manson seriously. It also doesn't help that For songs that I don't really respond to, I tend to kind of change the lyrics in my brain. And so, uh, it gets to the, pre chorus part, and it's just like, I, I, I want a smokier I! And it's like, oh, yeah, I can see that. So, I appreciate that Ireland is doing something so out of character. I think that is something that should be encouraged. if, Ireland had sent any one of the other entries in their national final. I don't think it would have solved their problem. At least if this does not qualify, they took a big swing, and that needs to be acknowledged and encouraged. Like, I think they are in A good position in the sense that this is the smaller of the two semifinals, it only has to beat five other songs. And I think there's enough look here, and enough for it to be memorable, that people may pick up the phone for it. And it could squeak through. Like, I don't Get winter vibes from this at all, but if it gets into ninth or tenth place, I would not be surprised. And that's all it needs to do to get Ireland back into the grand final. And I think that is the goal at this point. [00:17:52] Ben: it definitely feels like it has more style than substance at the end of things. I like the general idea of very abrasive verses with this very sweet chorus, and I just wish it was executed better. [00:18:07] Mike: I agree. my first notice is like, wow, this is a really long three minutes when I was prepping for this episode, listening to each of the tracks, I'm just like, Oh, did I put on an extended mix or like an alternate version? no, I'm just 90 seconds into the song, okay, and it hasn't even gotten to the loud part yet. maybe I'm just an old. [00:18:27] Ben: This is one where, the runtime, I think, gets close to the full three min yeah, like, it's, it's 3. 04. we have a couple where it's, like, closer to, two and a half minutes. This one could have been a two and a half minute idea. [00:18:37] Sam: mean, yeah, you're right that it gets baggy towards the end, but also, I mean, there's not, there's not much propulsion going on until they hit that weird little, you know, half step chorus, and then it's back to the grind, man. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. There, there is enough charisma. it's interesting, but it's not, it's, it's shaky. [00:18:54] Ben: There's a sense of novelty to it on the first listen, but, again, like, novelty wears off. Do one more thing! You have time! [00:19:01] 🇱🇺 Luxembourg - Tali - Fighter --- [00:19:01] Sam: Well, there's a few songs that have that, that problem, I think. [00:19:04] Ben: returns to the Eurovision Song Contest, having last competed in 1993. Luxembourg was one of the original seven countries to compete at Eurovision and had a perfect attendance record up through their departure. They have won the contest five times, with their last victory in 1983. Tali Golergant was born in Israel and lived in Chile and Argentina before settling down in Luxembourg. Now based in New York, Tali studied musical theater at Marymount Manhattan College. Tali and has performed several gigs and venues all over NYC. The Luxembourg Song Contest featured a two part process. Fyder nearly swept the international jury in both parts, receiving 10 from one jury and 12 from the rest. Though she won the televote in the full field, Tali finished one point behind first in the superfinal televote. Tali's combined score provided more than enough margin to give her the ticket to Sweden. Fyder is written by Anna Zimmer, Dardust, Manon Romidi, and Silvio Lisbon. Dardust is also on the writing team behind Italy's entry, Lanoia. Mike, what do you think about this one? [00:20:16] Mike: Yeah, this one I have listed as just a straightforward track, and I think that's helpful in This year's field in particular, like, I mean, we've mentioned all the weird little dudes even within this set of five. I think it's definitely the most straightforward entry, but I think it works. I really like the studio production of this track, like it's using, uh, sound in kind of a 360 degree space. It's not just left ear right ear or full audio blast like it's like oh you're actually kind of paying attention to where things are happening within an audio stage so I think that's really cool. Um, I think it's really trying to Demonstrate a pan European vibe with the multilingual lyrics and the, almost kind of flamenco stomping that is happening, in the chorus. I think this is Luxembourg saying howdy to everybody. Uh, it's like, hey, I'm back. did you miss me? It's checking all the boxes that it needs to check. Which I think could be enough to get it to the final. I don't know if it's necessarily going to do well once it gets there, because it does feel a little slight, like there's not really anything that's making it, you know, Special or particularly distinct, from, your kind of run of the mill pop song, but it's a good run of the mill pop song. So I, I, I think that's where I've landed on it. [00:21:42] Ben: Alright, Sam. [00:21:43] Sam: I agree with you completely. I think that's, uh, you basically read my notes back to me. It's modern, it's not necessarily generic, at first blush, it is my favorite of these five songs, if only because it grabs me very immediately. It speaks the language of modern pop music in a way that's almost comforting. It's the kind of thing you would come here to see. Watching the performance actually helped a lot because she does have some of the riz. She has the charisma She has the performance. it's B list and I don't know, you know It being very easily parsed is that an asset or a handicap? Is that gonna mean that it's not unique enough to get out of the semis or not? But I mean it's conventional but it's it's The most immediately pleasurable of these five songs to me And I was very surprised on the second or third listen to be like looking forward to it You know, it's the kind of thing that would slot in very easily on one of those, you know Spotify playlists with the goofy name like I I I don't just like it and I don't know if that's good a good thing or bad thing. [00:22:57] Ben: Yeah, like, I'm similarly surprised how much this one has grown on me. at first when it came out, I was like, okay Luxembourg, this isn't 2017 anymore, come on. But, like, it's, it's a little Eurovision by numbers, but that's not a bad thing. It knows the venue, it knows what it wants to do, it's, it's knocking it out. Luxembourg is kinda getting their footing back after having been away for 30 something years, and like, this, this is not a bad way to reintroduce yourself, this is very competently done. I also agree that, it has enough charisma and enough, performance chops to make it through to the grand final. Once it's there, I think there are gonna be too many other things to capture viewers attention. It's probably not gonna be, super up there, but, they made it to the final. Welcome back, Luxembourg. We're happy to have you. [00:23:38] Mike: if it does end up being a case where all of the weird little dudes end up, in the grand final, and It gets crowded. Like if they, if they all make it to the grand final and they all end up in the same half, like this is going to be something where it's like, Oh, finally something I could like grab onto this is like some, like a port in the storm. You know? [00:23:58] 🇺🇦 Ukraine - alyona aloyona & Jerry Heil - "Teresa & Maria" --- [00:23:58] Ben: Thank goodness, some air. [00:24:02] Mike: Ukraine has selected the song Teresa and Maria by Alyona Alyona and Jerry Heil to be its representative in Malmo. Alyona Savrnenko is an award winning rapper who released her debut album in 2019. The album caught the attention of US media with a profile in Vogue and a mention in the New York Times. favorably comparing Aliona to Azalea Banks. Since then, Aliona has worked with several acts familiar to the Eurovision fandom, including Kalush Orchestra, Yulia Sinina, Monica Liu, Jamala, Tvorci, and Tina Carroll. Shamaeva, who goes by the stage name Jerry Heil, is another frequent Aliona, Aliona collaborator. Jerry rose to prominence as a YouTube vlogger, performing song covers, and Famous Birthdays claims she is the 13th most famous YouTuber from Ukraine. In terms of TV, Jerry Heil reached the bootcamp stage of X Factor Ukraine in 2018, and eventually made her debut at VidBeer in 2020 with the song Vegan. She returned for the 2023 edition of VidBeer and finished 3rd, and teamed up with Eliona Eliona for VidBeer 2024. where the duo won the televote and finished second with the jury, giving them the opportunity to go to Eurovision. Teresa and Maria is written by Aliona Aliona, Anton Chalibi, Ivan Klemenko, and Jerry Heil. Ukraine was the defending champion last year, giving the song Heart of Steel by Torchi a direct pass into the grand final, where it finished in sixth place. In their 18 appearances, Ukraine has won Eurovision three times and is yet to miss qualifying for the grand final. So Sam, what do you make of Teresa and Maria? [00:25:57] Sam: I Came away from this with a sense of, like, quiet respect, maybe? I think I could draw lines from this to other recent performances, especially the unison singing at the top of it reminds me of a couple other recent contenders, from that general part of the world. the production itself is sort of, I, I, I wrote down sad tropical house. the opposite of tropical? I don't know. I mean. Listen, I'm not here to take shots at this, but I'm also not here to claim that I think it's gonna make it through. I mean, I don't understand necessarily the way that geopolitics may play a role in the voting, but I did not come away with much to say about this song. I also really want to know why she got compared to Azealia Banks, but I probably should have googled that. [00:26:52] Ben: I had not seen that part of the intro and I'm just, now I'm just like, okay, like, just knowing Azalea Bay, like, I'm assuming it's just sort of rap abilities and not Instagram presence? [00:27:02] Sam: She kept the beat. I mean, I have no issue, I think they are both talented performers who, you know, I'm not, I don't speak the language, [00:27:11] Ben: But also, what did Eliona Eliona say about Grimes? [00:27:14] Sam: Yeah, [00:27:15] Mike: Yeah. She was trying to warn us about Elon Musk, okay? We should have listened to her. Ben, [00:27:24] Sam: Banks, you know how, uh, the, the, what's the saying, a stop clock is right? Twice a day is Isaiah Banks is like a clock that spins at the speed of light. So she's right a lot of the time, but also wrong so much of the time. I came away with it with a degree of appreciation, but I don't know, and you, you mentioned that Ukraine has not failed to qualify for the grand final so far, and I'm like, there is no danger of this, you know, they're not gonna have to find another alternate venue for, for Eurovision. I don't think this is, this is gonna be a winner. I don't, I don't see it. I don't, I don't see it. [00:28:00] Mike: what do you think of this one? [00:28:01] Ben: Ukraine, having never missed the final, I trust they're gonna stage this well. I trust they're gonna figure out what's, what's going on with it. Both of their names are sort of equal billing on this, and I want a version that has, like, more Alyona Alyona on it, with, like, Jerry just sort of chiming in at, like, the chorus. Because, like, right now, the beautiful middle section where Alyona is, like, doing her verse. Great, but then the rest of it, the music and the general just sort of choral vibe of it just sort of mentally gets in the same place of, like, it's not quite Tropical House, but the sort of music that they stick in the background during like, the evening gown portion of Miss Universe, during some of what Jerry's doing, I just feel like there should be someone going, Argentina! Spain! [00:28:43] Sam: it was unclear to me that, Eliona Eliona was the lead artist, so to speak, on this track until I read the bio. I think she has the stronger presence. I want to hear more from her. I think you're absolutely correct. I think the singer, I, I don't know. I mean, how, how much retooling of this is allowed? [00:29:04] Ben: that's a great question. Like, if they were going to retool it, they would need to have submitted that by now. But, yeah, like, I feel like this is a group project where both of their names are on this for equal credit, but as the evaluator, I feel like Eljona Eljona has definitely done her part of the work, and I kind of wish the jury had done more. [00:29:18] Mike: Yeah, I think I'm kind of in the same boat, and you know how much of a Ukraine stan I am, so like, this is, uh, I'm like, I think it's going to be fine. Like, it is going to qualify, but it does have this feeling that it is two songs kind of smushed together, and not necessarily in conversation with itself. It takes a while for Eleona Eleona to even be in the song. It's about halfway into it and then it becomes like the Eleona Eleona song do wish that there was a little bit more of a combination or conversation or something more interactive happening but it just seems like it is Just these two entities kind of thrown together. I like the analogy of it being like a group project where each person does their part and they each have their heading in the final paper that's submitted. it's just all under the one banner. Like everybody, everybody did their job. It doesn't necessarily matter if they did the job together or that it's working towards the same cohesive unit. this one has been in the, like, potential winner conversation. I'm wondering how much of that is, Ukraine is going to Ukraine and, they're going to stage this phenomenally, which I, like, I expect them to do, what they do well and, why they do so well at Eurovision. But I have a tough time seeing this as the winner. And in continuing in the mode that Ukraine has been in for the last few years for understandable reasons, but I'm hoping that next year circumstances will allow for a more joyous entry or yeah. Yeah, [00:31:00] Ben: thinking of another metaphor I feel like Ukraine is like, hello, here is our deconstructed peanut butter cup, you have given me a square of chocolate and you have given me a spoonful of peanut butter, but you've done nothing to really connect those. [00:31:11] Mike: Mm hmm. [00:31:11] Sam: I mean, it's, it's incredible for them to have the kind of run that they have had and through the extraordinary time that they've been having and to present an act every year in the, in the midst of this, situation and I think, you know, I mean, I, I, that's why I can't have any sort of like personal It'll well towards the song even though it has left me not knowing much, you know I mean not not speaking the language and not having a frame of necessarily reference for a lot of it It's just it has left me cold and and that's just how it is. [00:31:46] Mike: Yeah. Yeah, like I think this one is probably my favorite of this set but it's not my favorite of this semifinal it'll be in Probably my top five by the time we get to the end of this, just because of like previous Ukraine stand up, but I feel like it's kind of relying more on that sort of like previous history than what this track is necessarily bringing. [00:32:14] Ben: when an artist has a new album out, part of the sales is generally as much a reaction of their previous album as it is the current one. this is definitely, We've liked what Ukraine has done the last few years, we're buying this, but even though, once we get to the song I'm like, eh, it's fine. [00:32:28] Mike: right. Any other thoughts on Ukraine? Well, my heart breaks, but [00:32:32] Sam: I'm sorry [00:32:33] Ben: No, it's, [00:32:33] Mike: no. I like, I mean, I'm in [00:32:35] Ben: well again, like, we, like, just like, Mike coming in with, I'm, like, I'm okay with, I'm okay with their entry, but it's just okay, it's, we're, we're breaking new ground. [00:32:43] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. [00:32:44] 🇫🇮 Finland - Windows95man - "No Rules!" --- [00:32:44] Mike: I'm growing, uh, [00:32:47] Ben: Kestiri, a visual artist and designer, will be representing Finland as his alter ego Windows 95 man with the song No Rules. As an artist, Teemu is behind the butt centric, Tumblr friendly at art character Ukkeli. As a musician, Teemu has been performing as Windows 95 Man since 2013, and has been an opening act for last year's representative, Kaaria. Despite a lengthy tenure in this musical persona, No Rules is the first single for Windows 95 Man, and it peaked at number 6 on the Finnish music charts. Joining Windows 95 Man on stage will be Henri Pispinen, a voice artist and TV presenter. He's also part of the writing team behind No Rules, and was not supposed to be on the track, but they couldn't find anyone with the necessary vocal range for the song. At Finland's national selection, UMK, the jury placed the song last, but a strong public vote propelled No Rules to victory. The full writing team for No Rules includes Henri Pispinen, Jussi Roina, and Teemu Kestri. Finland won the televote and finished in second place in last year's contest with the song Cha Cha Cha by Kavya, who we may have mentioned once or twice on the show. this is also the only entry, we're discussing today where I was in the arena when that happened. [00:34:06] Sam: Hell yeah [00:34:07] Ben: that moment was wild. [00:34:10] Mike: which moment there were, there were quite a few. [00:34:13] Sam: A lot of moments. [00:34:13] Ben: yeah, oh yeah, just like, the song is a collection of moments, but just like, the moment when the televote came in, and I suddenly had to start doing math in my head to be like, wait a minute, how many points are there? Cause like, this was artist one, and we have six more of these to get through. Is this over? one thing that doesn't get shown in the performance is that they have to hoist the jorts up into the rafters of the arena. Uh, which that was just fun to watch happen twice. It's worth noting that there was some slight concern that given that Eurovision generally does not want brand names to be mentioned, as we saw with, many years ago, the Social Networks song, that Windows 95 Man would not get to be Windows 95 Man, but there has been a ruling that he can stay Windows 95 Man, but he can't have the Windows 95 logo, because apparently, we can't advertise Windows 95 in 2024. I just appreciate that we now have SOME RULES. Uh, The UMK Instagram account showed today that, it's literally a very blurry version of the Windows 95 logo. It looked like they were maybe blurring the text and then he put it on and it had somehow become like an even shorter crop top which just feels appropriate. Sam, what were your thoughts on this one? [00:35:23] Sam: I recently watched My Neighbor Totoro for the very first time with my three year old son and it was, I mean, obviously you guys have seen that. I mean, that's just such a classic and you get through almost the entire movie of, these beautiful, vistas, beautiful animation and everything. And then the cat bus shows up and then, Everybody in the room just points at the screen like, like DiCaprio and is like, Catbus! that's how I feel about the Jorts Egg. I had seen your, your posts about it. I had heard the phrase Jorts Egg for what seemed like quite a long time. And then when I say I thought I'd watch this, I'm like, hey, it's the Jorts Egg! There it is! And that's kind of the big takeaway for me, is Jorzeg, Jorzeg. We're talking about the staging. Not as much the song, although I do like the song. I think that I have to compare it to Kariya for multiple reasons, obviously. Kariya's staging was so incredible and the story that it told throughout the different, you know, levels, different finals, he I think what draws me into this is the staging and the song comes second. Now, I don't want to Say bad things about the song, but it's also, I don't know. I mean, we, we were talking a little bit offline about, about Hyperpop and how to kind of describe that kind of, I was saying that it was more of a sort of a collection of signifiers rather than a genre, right? I mean, you could talk about Hyperpop in reference to Bambi Thug, as much as you could to the Windows 95 Man stuff and a couple of other entries, but it's not I think at its core the song is kind of like butt rock, pun intended, like it's it's it's kind of a a more conventional song and I think the line that it treads for me is it's is obviously it's funny and there's a lot of funny stuff going on. Do I want to listen to this when I'm in a bad mood? Do I want to listen to this when I don't want to laugh? And I'm not sure that's true. Whereas something like cha cha cha. Operates on infinity levels and I want that plate at my funeral like I will be buried in a green bolero like it's fine But so so so I mean it I think inevitably anything is gonna feel like a step down, right? And I think trying to fire on all cylinders is a really great strategy I also love the fact which I did not know about them coming from Literally last place and the televote being so overwhelming that that's what put it through and I would like that to have happened last year As well, um, in the, in the, in the grand final. So I get it, you know, but it's not, it doesn't hit for me. It's, it's, it's always going to suffer by comparison. And I'm curious how far we can get with the song versus the staging. And if the Dvorak isn't there, then what's the point do you have any Intel as, as what the, how the, the, the state performance is going to be? Like, are they gonna ramp it up a notch? Like, is the Dwarf's Egg gonna like, open up and talk or something, like? [00:38:33] Mike: I mean, there was a report that the, Jortsag, or Jeg, as Ben has also called it, um, they need to Yeah, that they need to install a hand railing. Just so like for safety and I, I guess for Jeg code, I, I, I don't know how the, I don't, I don't know how the housing commission works in Finland, but that seems to imply that they're probably going to have, uh, if not the same, staging something similar enough. I have to imagine the egg is going to stay there 'cause you can't just use that thing once. Like they've, they've [00:39:03] Sam: Yeah. Mhm. [00:39:07] Ben: Mike, how do you feel about this song and or the jorts egg? [00:39:11] Mike: Oh, God. Oh, it's initially my notes are just like, I could probably copy and paste what I was saying about Ireland's entry and put it here where it's just like, I cannot take this seriously. It's so incredibly juvenile. I find this. Equally difficult to listen to. And I think, I think part of it is, I don't know, I, I, I've been struggling with this all week and preparing for this episode where like I just, where we are, in the Eurovision fandom, like, it's just like, okay, like don't take it too seriously. It's just your vision. But I mean, we take it seriously enough. make this show and like we've been following this contest for years. So it's like, don't take it seriously, but I do have to take it kind of seriously. And it's just like this constant struggle. And the song is on the side of the struggle where it's just like, Oh, it's just like, just have fun. It's just like, this is not my form of fun. Like rules are how we have fun, you know? And, I understand why This is popular, why people enjoy it. It's just not my sense of humor. Like, it's kind of like the Will Ferrell thing. his movies make money. There's an audience for it. I am not in that audience. That is fine. Like, he doesn't need me to be in that audience. And I feel like this is kind of in that same sphere or egg or whatever. So, um, in terms of how this is going to do at the contest, it'll be fine. Like, it will not need my votes to advance it, and the very difficult situation of having to follow up last year. my overall concern about this song's presence in the contest, and this is probably going to come up with a number of the other entries that we'll be discussing over the course of review season, it's, I feel like it's kind of missing the point of Cha Cha Cha. Like, so many people, see that as a joke entry, or, poking more fun than being serious, but like that song is about not taking yourself too seriously and just kind of like getting over yourself. And I think that that message has been missed in a lot of ways, but at the same time, as I'm talking, it's just like, Mike, get over yourself. So it's, it's just this very, I'm conflicted. I think that's how I can sum this up. [00:41:26] Ben: Okay, and like, in fairness, walking into UMK, I was not team No Rules. I was very much, Fien Lynch has said the ballad this year, it's a nice pivot for them, they've got a good one, the staging that I've seen the quick clip of looks great, but then I was in the arena. And the person I was sitting next to, A, found out I was American, was thrilled. Was just like, I was their new friend. Loved it. But then, of course, the question was, what are you rooting for? I was like, um, Sara Siblin, No! Uh, and like, they were, they were, they saw my point once we both saw the performance, but they were like, no, we're, Windows 95 man. walking around the Nokia Reno, like, was just minding my business, like, Oh, there's a person dressed like Windows 95 man and his little background singer. Oh, there's another one. Ohhhh. Oh, there's momentum in this country for this entry. And I think this is true for what they did with Cha Cha Cha as well, they did a very good job of making a performance that played very well in the arena, but also played very well on TV. And I think Finland has gotten the knack for this. And they've also gotten very good about going, Okay, this is V1 of the performance. If this wins, how do we make this 10 times bigger? Like, they did that very well with Cha Cha Cha last year. I'm trusting that whatever they do with the JEG, and Malmo will be a bigger, better JEG somehow. I don't get the impression that they're trying to get the same level of pull as cha cha cha head like I feel like they're they're like okay we did really well we can definitely pull this off I'm not sure that they're aiming for yes we want to host 2025. I feel like we went through a whole thing at like the the second half of last year where Kyle Gordon's Planet of the Bass came out and was like this is every 90s Eurodance track what this would and list like all of the TikTok comments for this would win Eurovision ha ha ha from people who don't understand Eurovision. When I hear this song, I've come around on it, like, it's, it's fun, and, like, I just sort of think of it as, Oh, this is, like, the Weird Al style parody that he does every, like, once every album of all of those 90s tracks. [00:43:26] Sam: Yeah, it's a comedy song. It's there's there's no way around that and I and I and I think that's the main thing that I feel like I need to share is that it is in the lineage of The other cute kitschy Scandinavian things like it's the wolf of banana. Like maybe I don't know. It's just It irks for me in that regard, but I think that there is enough, goodwill and verve behind it, and then obviously the staging carries it through. and then before I forget, if we want to talk about somebody who does not have the range, his co writer, Anri, is that how we should say his name? The final performance of that is I don't know, I mean, Charisma got him through it, but I wonder if that's just gonna, if he's gonna tighten it up before we get to the semis, or, or, or if that's just the best he can do, I thought it was interesting, you said that he was the only person with the range to do it, and I was like, does he? Like, that, that was a little rough, dude, a little pitchy, dawg, like, [00:44:31] Mike: I mean, I don't know how hard they looked. [00:44:34] Sam: Yeah. [00:44:35] Ben: Mm hmm. Yeah, like, that, that part is unclear. [00:44:37] Mike: Yeah, [00:44:38] Ben: I can see this one getting through to the final, like, again, it only has to beat five songs, I think it definitely does. I wonder with this and a few other things in the mix across both of the semi finals if once those are all in the same grand final they all cancel one another out. [00:44:53] Mike: I mean, they'd almost have to I would think and it's also one of those things and like with a number of the other performances that you've mentioned like I like Give That Wolf A Banana. I was very fond of Romania's entry Yodel It back in 2017. Like I'm not adverse to the fun songs. I don't know why this one. In particular, is rubbing me the wrong way or yeah, and it could just be I had kind of a crap week. So like, like I was really not in the mood for this song, but who knows? Maybe I'll be in a better mood come May and, it'll hit. differently, [00:45:28] Ben: But yeah, like, I agree with both of you that unlike Cha Cha Cha, which like, I have also booked for my funeral, um, any time I am ready for that song and like this one, I can't be in like a down mood. Like in our little playlist of five songs, was really nice in its placement, like, every time I would go through these five songs, I'm like, yeah, it's time for this one, I'm not going to try and sneak it into every playlist like I did with Cha Cha Cha, [00:45:50] Mike: I will say, I do appreciate that it has a key change because we were missing the key changes last year. So, [00:45:55] Ben: yeah, [00:45:57] Sam: Absolutely. Danny L. Harl, what's wrong with you? At [00:46:00] Mike: yeah, [00:46:02] Sam: least this is hyper. It's hyper and it's pop. It's not hyper pop, but at least there's some juice, man. [00:46:07] Final Thoughts --- [00:46:07] Mike: yeah. [00:46:08] Sam: Sorry. No, I know, I know we're not going to talk about Dizzee, but. If we were to talk about Dizzy. [00:46:12] Mike: are there other songs in this year's field, Dizzy included, that, you're particularly interested in? [00:46:18] Sam: I had kind of kept myself pure in previous years. Kind of have, try to get that first reaction during the semis. And then sort of have a fully formed opinion by the time we got to, the final. And I don't know, I don't know if that's how, civilians experience Eurovision. Or if they kind of, pick their team early on too. But I know that, When they announced the team for the UK this year, I was like, ready to go. And then I heard it and then I was like, okay. One of the funny things is, is the, if we're going to talk about the Pet Shop Boys, I think you could put the vocals for Windows 95 Man over It's a Sin and have it work. I'm going to go do that after the show is I'm going to make a mashup. I think it might work. The chord progressions are very similar and it would probably be still a better song. [00:47:07] Mike: Oh, wow. I would love to hear that, too. That does sound, hmm. [00:47:11] Sam: I gotta learn Ableton, but I'll do it. [00:47:12] Mike: Yeah. [00:47:15] Sam: the whole point of, hiring somebody like Daniel Harl and somebody who has written some truly, you know, extraordinary pop songs, like, like, like Ollie is that you expect them to be bringing it and it felt un brought. I, I don't think it turns up to a good seven. It needed to go to a 10 there needed. And, and there's, there's a spot where a key chain should go. That final, that final repeated chorus like. That's where I should go. You know, these are two guys operating on a real middle of the road lane, which is not, not, not I think where either of them excels, but anyway. [00:47:49] Ben: mean, [00:47:50] Sam: We could be here all [00:47:51] Ben: I could see them, I could see them, sneaking one in there, because, like, I feel like last year with May, the little bridge y, kinda cringey rap verse about, about Loving Yourself. Like, that was, that was sort of a grand finale surprise. [00:48:04] Sam: That grated. I, that was my least favorite song of the final and I do not, I am not sad at all but it did not score [00:48:14] Mike: You, you and almost everybody else. Yeah. [00:48:16] Sam: Yeah, we have the numbers to prove it. I mean, I'm really interested to see how it plays out. And I think now that I've, um, you know, spoiled myself for these songs, I'm going to absolutely catch up with the other ones and I look forward to hearing uh, what you guys have to say about them as well. [00:48:31] Mike: Ah, awesome. I hope you enjoy, what there is to discover. Cause it is, it is an interesting field this year. And this particular set, I think was a good sampler of what 2024 has in store. [00:48:41] Ben: Looking at what all of the nations watched from last year, like, oh, we should try our version of that, for, for good or for bad. Alright, well, Sam, thank you so much for joining us. [00:48:50] Sam: Hey, it's been awesome. Thank you guys so much. Thank you for thinking of me. And, and yeah, I look forward to. Hearing throughout the rest of the season what you guys have to say. [00:48:59] Ben: is there anything that you would like to plug? Like, websites, social media, other projects, etc.? [00:49:04] Sam: Obviously we're all subscribers to in Tabs. Um, I pick the music for that newsletter every day. although we just found out today that the author who writes it, Rusty, is gonna go hike the Appalachian Trail, starting this summer. And so, I guess my song picks will no longer be included in that newsletter, although it'd be great. I like the idea of sending him little songs to listen to in the wilderness every day and heaven at me for sending more boot music for him to listen to while looking at, you know, splendiferous wildlife. I'm also the DJ volunteer coordinator at K Chung Radio, which is a community radio station that we operate out of downtown LA. It's a really cool organization. Anybody can get a show, The Barrier to Entry. Low as possible. once you hear my show, you'll understand, you know, why that is. it's a wonderful opportunity and we have some of the coolest DJs. We have some of the greatest shows, really good music. I often play Eurovision hits on my show, which is every second Thursday at 9 PM on the Chinatown stream. that's sort of my main other gig right now. And it's been very creatively fulfilling. it feels awkward to say this, hit me up on Blue Sky, samgavin. com is my username. I think that's where most of my online life is centralized right now. And uh, yeah, available for creative work of any kind. [00:50:25] Ben: That's going to do it for this episode of the Eurowhat. Thanks for listening. The Eurowhat podcast is hosted by Ben Smith. That's me and Mike McComb. [00:50:31] Mike: That's me. If you'd like to help support the show and access a ton of bonus content, including the American Song Contest Afterglow show, head on over to patreon. com slash eurowhat. [00:50:42] Ben: Our full coverage of the 2024 Eurovision Song Contest can be found on our website at Eurowhat. com. You can also follow us on social media at Eurowhat. [00:50:49] Mike: our second semifinal one group includes Moldova, Lithuania, Poland, Croatia, and Cyprus, with our special guest, Dudepois. I, I, I want a smokier I!