Jim: [00:00:00] Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Equipcast. My name is Jim Jansen, and I am your host. I recently had an incredible conversation with Christina Dears. Christina and I delved into the topic of integrating body, mind, and soul. It was an amazing conversation. Many of you are striving to serve the kingdom, and you may have a particular gift for intellectual formation, or perhaps you're dedicated to maintaining good health and staying in shape. However, most of us find some aspect of our lives out of balance, whether it's intellectual formation, physical health, sleep, or diet.

Christina talks about her personal journey and how she discovered SoulCore and Reform, and how they profoundly impacted her sense of freedom and integration. If you've ever attempted a diet or a health regimen, I can bet it probably didn't start with, "Step number one, go to Jesus and ask what he wants for your health." This conversation is incredible for anyone who inhabits a body. If you're not just an animal with a body and no soul, or an angel with a soul and no body, if you are the unity of body and soul, this conversation is for you. You're going to love it. Christina Dears and I discuss how to find freedom through integration of body, soul, and mind. Take a listen. Welcome to the Equipcast for the Archdiocese of Omaha, designed to help leaders transform their cultures to embody the pastoral vision: to be one Church, encountering Jesus, equipping disciples, and dears. Welcome to the Equipcast. How are you doing today?

Christina: I'm well, thank you.

Jim: Good. So, Christina, I was just laughing a little bit to myself as we jump into this conversation. I am so excited that we're going to get a chance to talk today about being a whole person, body, mind, and spirit in service to the kingdom. I'm really passionate about this, but it didn't dawn on me how much I wanted to talk about this until we had a mutual friend - shout out to Kay Doyle - who introduced us. I think we talked very briefly, and I was like, "Christina, you need to come on the Equipcast." So thank you for being here. Why don't you just give everybody a chance to introduce themselves? Just tell everybody a little bit about your faith journey.

Christina: I was originally Presbyterian. My family was very active in our church in Grand Island, Nebraska. I feel like as a [00:03:00] child, I had a connection with God, felt close to God. And then, of course, you come into young adult years and went to college and sort of lost that connection.

Jim: The transition can be hard, especially with all the distractions on college campuses.

Christina: Definitely got distracted. But I came back, found a nice Catholic boy, got married. As we were discerning where to go to church together, because that was something my dad had always said, "As long as you go to church together, your marriage will be good," you know? That's awesome.
Jim: Yeah, he's pretty awesome.

Christina: So I just felt drawn to the Catholic church, not because I understood what it meant, but I liked the church we were going to. That pulled me in. Even then, I didn't really practice living my faith. I went to Mass on Sunday, but that was about the extent of it. Then one year, about nine years ago, my husband decided to pray the rosary every day for Lent. I didn't really know anything about the rosary. All I knew was he said his grandma always had it hanging on her hip and she was always praying.

Jim: Yeah, it's a unique Lenten discipline.

Christina: It is. Yeah. So the next year, I prayed the rosary every day for Lent. Funny thing, I just never stopped. I still pray it every day, multiple times a day now. Sometimes it just depends on the day. But yeah. And I think in a nutshell, Mary just took over. Basically, I didn't even, you know, Mary wasn't a part of my faith life growing up, but once I invited her in, she really did a great job of leading me to her son.

Jim: Yeah. It's a whole nother dimension. If we were to describe the experience in a word, it's motherly.

Christina: It is. Yeah. She just adds a whole nother dynamic to it that you really shouldn't miss out on, you know? That's not to say Jesus isn't... and she leads you to him, though. I mean, she helps you. So once I started praying the rosary every day, it was like a snowball. Things just started happening. I just started getting pulled deeper into the Catholic faith, learning more. And at the time, I was teaching Pilates, and a woman came in from out of town, and we were talking. She asked me if I'd heard of SoulCore.

Jim: Now, before, for the guys who are listening, what's Pilates?

Christina: Pilates is a type of exercise that focuses on core strengthening - abs and back. It involves planking and moving your spine in various directions to keep it healthy and mobile. It's excellent for deep intrinsic muscles to prevent injuries. It's a great complement to any workout routine.

Jim: A fundamental workout routine.

Christina: Yeah, it's a great complement to any other workout too. So it's, yeah. But anyway, I was leading her through a class or a private session, and she asked me about it, and I said I'd never heard of SoulCore. Started looking into it and was immediately drawn to it because it's centered around the rosary.
Christina: Yeah, and movement. So you're moving your body during the prayers, and then we meditate on each mystery. So that, then, I mean, I don't do anything halfway, so I immediately wanted to become a leader in it. Not still, you know, not really, I wouldn't say I was well-versed in the Rosary. I was praying it every day, but I didn't really, I mean, there's not nothing. No, it's not nothing, but I don't think I fully comprehended everything, you know? Sure. Yeah. And so this took me to another level. And she, and the, so I went to the leader retreat and, um, there's a discernment period. And then ultimately decided to become a leader and started leading at St. Patrick's. I was fine with all the physical movement part of it, but I was [00:08:00] very, uh, nervous about the faith part of it and meditating on the mysteries. However, I pushed through and having to. Every mystery has a Bible verse and a quote and some kind of reflection. And so having to have that with each of the mysteries really taught me so much. So I learned a great deal leading the class. And then I started becoming curious. I started hearing words like wellness ministry. And I'm like, well, what is that? You know, and started, you know, just again, that's that kind of snowball effect where you learn more, you learn more. And one of our SoulCore leader meetings we were doing virtually, they introduced us to Jackie Mulligan, who is the founder of Reform. And I went, aha, that's the other piece I'm looking for. And so reform is a Christ-centered wellness program. Again, jumped in with both feet, started, took the online class, and I've been involved with reform [00:09:00] since then. So that's kind of how it's, where it's brought me. I would say Mary started it all. She taught me about her son through the rosary and then Reform has taken it further in showing me how to practically live my Catholic faith with Jesus at the center of my life involved in every part of my life: eating, sleeping, working out. Just every aspect.

Jim: Yeah, the whole aspect. Yeah. This is fantastic. I mean, I want to like break down more, talk a little bit more about SoulCore and Reform. But just like, I just have to highlight, you talked about, you're praying the rosary every day for quite some time. More than a year. Oh yeah. Yeah. And as you begin to get into SoulCore. Your love for the rosary, your understanding, your appreciation is just, is dramatically deepened. And it was said, I don't know how many Catholics pray the rosary every day, but it's, it's not all of us. It's not a [00:10:00] huge percentage. And it's just a beautiful thing to see how much that, that took you. Just how that took you deeper. Yeah. If you can, I mean, we, we were talking, I think our first conversation, we noticed how, how beautiful it was, just this kind of Marian element, you know, where, you know, Mary's job is she gives Jesus his body, you know, and as we learn to understand our own bodies and the relationship between our souls and our bodies and and kind of like a total care It just seems really appropriate that Mary would be kind of if not in the lead She'd be the kind of like background force drawing us there Tell us a little bit more again Maybe for those who or don't have a regular workout routine. What's happening? In addition to the prayers of the rosary, what's happening during like a SoulCore session?

Christina: Okay, with SoulCore, [00:11:00] we always like to invite anybody and everybody that, you know, fitness level is not a factor. Right. Because, If nothing else, we want you to come and pray the rosary with us. Sure. So you could just sit and just pray. And that's, that's, you're doing SoulCore with us, you know? That's awesome. Yeah, because Rose, the Rosary's truly the focused that there's never gonna, we don't ever want anything to, to stand in the way of that. So the prayers are the main thing, and then we typically do. A pushup on the R Father. And so obviously you can do modified pushups on your knees or on your feet. Right. Okay. But then I also lead a chair class at St. Patrick's where the women are seated and they just move their arms. We have them move their arms in and out instead of getting down Sure. On the floor. So there's so many ways. To modify it that we just every action every movement is what we say. It's an invitation [00:12:00] Sure, make it your workout make, you know, do the things that you have to do to you know in a way Glorify god with your body, you know, like really celebrate what he's given you and how you can use it You know and what it's doing for you and like he's he's given us these bodies and I think It shows him honor when we take care of them and we use them in a way that You know, he would want us to, you know,

Jim: Christina, I immediately, as you talked about those, you know, my mind goes to, I frequently like to walk when I pray the rosary, part of it is because it just keeps me from falling asleep. Uh, but, but, but, but, but also it seems to when I, you know, when I can find the right space where I'm, where I'm walking, particularly out in nature, it often draws me deeper into prayer. because the movement helps, again, keep me awake, preserve some, some distraction. Talk a little bit about how do the, let's say a, you know, a pushup, modified or not, or the movements of soul core, how do they help draw you deeper in, into the mystery? Cause I think I can immediately say like, okay, I can see how going for a walk. That's been my experience. How do, how do those movements, those exercises draw you deeper into the prayer?

Christina: So I've had, you know, been in the fitness field for a long time and done a lot of different kinds of workouts. And one workout that has proven Lee effective over time is an interval workout where you push yourself a little bit and then you rest and then you push yourself and soul core is very much like that. Okay. So when you're When we're meditating on the mysteries, we're not moving. So we have that rest time.

Jim: That's super helpful because I can imagine that people are thinking, uh, like, I don't know, I'd be distracted like doing any sort of pushup, modified or not. It takes all of my energy. But you're saying while we're meditating on the mystery.

Christina: You're laying down [00:14:00] or seated.

Jim: Yeah. Okay. So, so you, you have the ability to concentrate then. Right. Yes. That's, that's helpful.

Christina: And then, it's only during the Our Fathers and the Hail Marys that you actually perform a movement. Sure. We like to have every Soul Core leader add their own interpretation, but one of the things they encourage us to do is pair the movements with the mysteries.

For example, the sorrowful mysteries are usually more challenging, encouraging you to push. So what I try to help people recognize is, you know, think about the endurance it would have taken to carry the cross. We can't even possibly come close, but if you can just try to empathize for this decade, you know, it really makes a difference. So I feel like in that way, we're honoring God with our bodies. Mass is very much about movement. We stand, sit, and kneel.

Jim: I mean, it's a joke, right? Catholic calisthenics.

Christina: Soul Core is essentially like an extended version of that, just in a slightly different way. Obviously, we don't have the sacrament, so it's not exactly like that, but it's different and it still utilizes our bodies. God gave us these amazing bodies, and we can do so much. Being able to truly pray and move at the same time, I think it makes that connection. For me, it allows me to be really grateful for what I have.

Jim: Well, and you're engaging your body in worship, which is a fundamental aspect of being human. It's particularly emphasized in the Catholic faith. We love incense, the movements, and we pay attention to our postures in the environment because when it's rightly ordered, it amplifies our worship and helps draw our hearts and minds, as they are connected to our bodies.

Christina: That's one of the things we emphasize with Soulcore too—that it involves all the senses. Your sense of touch, smell. Sometimes instructors will use incense or scented candles. We have candles, and I like to display an illustration of Mary, a religious sister gave to us. It's so beautiful, and I like to place it by the rosary in the middle and the candles. So, we genuinely strive to incorporate all the senses in Soulcore, so you feel like it's all mind, body, and soul together, praying to our Lord.

Jim: Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about REFORM because you mentioned you've been doing SoulCore for a while and got acquainted with REFORM through your association. It seems like it was a period of professional development for the instructors, and you got to know the founder. You mentioned Father Innocent Montgomery from the Franciscan Fires of Renewal in New York. Can you tell us more about REFORM?

Christina: Absolutely. REFORM is a Christ-centered wellness program founded by Jackie Mulligan, who is a holistic nutritionist. She has an incredible story that I wouldn't do justice here, but you can visit the website to learn more about it. She made connections with the Friars in New York and was working with them. She was amazed at how powerful their transformation was when they applied her teachings on nutrition and movement to their daily formation.

She noticed how their bodies transformed and asked Father Innocent or one of the other priests if lay people could also have a daily formation, and he said yes, it's for everyone. So she started putting it all together, and God put it on her heart to create this program so that people could make their daily choices with Jesus in mind and truly honor their bodies.
Because the Friars were using this program, they found themselves healthier, more energetic, and better able to serve, as their bodies were in good condition. Father Innocent shared his testimony about how he wasn't well when he met her, but through their collaboration, she helped his body, and he helped her soul.

Jim: Well, and I mean, if I'm understanding this story correctly, she's consulting for the CFRs because, you know, they're intensely involved in serving ministers of the gospel. But there are issues with health and exercise. And as she's teaching them, she can see how profoundly it's affecting their health. And of course, they're integrating it with their spiritual routines. And she's like, "Hey, wait a minute. We should do this for lay people." Yeah. Yeah. So, you mentioned Father Innocent, and he had some health issues. You know, I was thinking Personally, I'm passionate about this because I've had some significant health challenges myself. I was diagnosed with a pretty significant autoimmune disease about 17 years ago, and that forced me to manage my stress, maintain a specific diet, not to lose weight, but to maintain it.
I had to change the way I slept, the way I ate, and the way I worked out, mostly as a stress management thing. I had some friends who heard about my dietary changes and they would tease me, saying, "Wow. So you're like lent all year long." I'm like, "Well, yes, but because you know, I just don't have processed sugars, and it's kind of a low inflammatory diet." Honestly, the sacrifice of it is so worth it. Not just because I feel better and don't feel sick, but also the discipline, the integration, and the intentional choice to eat well and sleep well overflow into every part of my life.
There are people who look at me now and think that I'm a really disciplined person. And I guess from a certain perspective, I am, but it's not natural. It's something that I had to acquire. Yeah. In order to survive and the benefits have been way bigger than any sacrifice. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about how people can integrate this? And this is a lot of the work that reform does. Like, how do you integrate exercise, diet, and health?

Christina: Well, reform teaches you to always go to Jesus first, right?

Jim: Say more about that because most diets don't start there.

Christina: No. Most diets don't. And I can tell you because I've tried a lot of them, being a fitness professional. I would definitely say that my health, my workouts, and my diet were idols in my life, that they were the things I spent the most time thinking about, and it affected my family. Reform took that and flipped it on its head because instead of obsessing about my food and exercise, they showed me that I was taking it too far. God wouldn't treat my body like that. Even though I thought I was doing something really good for myself, I was overdoing it.
So, reform taught me to look at myself the way God looks at me, as his child and his beloved daughter. And what he would want for me is to incorporate some play and stress management because, honestly, my workouts were probably stressing me out more than they were doing me any good. So, I think they just take it and have this monstrance as their sort of symbol or image. It's not their main image, but they do use it on the front of their books. And I brought my book to help me remember all of the pillars, but they put faith at the center. So, you'll spend some time learning about just some people. For those not in ministry, they want to know about how to pray, how to incorporate this relationship with God, how to get to know him. So, that's the first pillar, obviously, because that's where it all stems from.
And then from there, all the little pillars that stick out from the sides are play, nutrition, sleep, stress management, community, personal growth, space, and functional movement. And so they spend time on each one of those and talk about how you can integrate them. Everyone listening is like, "Yeah, I know I'm supposed to, but how do you actually do it?" 

Jim: Yeah. Well, I love that you said that. It's like balance is kind of an elusive thing that almost whispers the lie to us that once you get everything in order, just freeze it. It's a little bit about, no, it's about living an ordered life. Yeah. Where there might be a season where you're on vacation and there's a lot more play. Yeah. Or you might be on retreat and there's a lot more prayer. Right. But can I live an ordered life where all of those elements—the play, the faith, my sleep, my stress management—are in harmony?

Christina: Correct. Yeah. And like you said, it just depends on where you are in your state of life. So, for a mom who has little kids, sleep is going to be something they're not getting as much of, and it is important. But you can do other things to manage that. They talk about what they have is a wellness account. They teach you about your wellness account, and you can make deposits in your body and soul. You can make withdrawals in your body and soul. They encourage you to do this once a week and just sit back and go, "Okay, what did I do this week for my body that was a deposit?" Well, I drank water, I walked, you know, I did whatever it is, all those things. I got good sleep, went to bed early. Yeah. And then what did I do for my soul this week? Well, I went to Mass. I went to adoration. Maybe I made it to reconciliation. I spent time in prayer with God every morning, whatever it could be, you know, I visited my parents. It could be any of those things that bring you life.
And then you go through the withdrawals too. You have to recognize, you know, I had a great time at that family get together, but I ate too much sugar. So, I probably better—

Jim: Totally hypothetically.

Christina: Right. Yeah. So I probably need to increase my sleep or do something so you can balance it out, or you can go into something, and I'm going to this family gathering and I haven't been getting enough sleep. So I really can't afford that glass of wine, or I really can't afford to eat the whole cake.


Jim: Again, hypothetical. Oh my gosh, I love it. Christina, if we can just talk honestly, it seems like ministers of the gospel, and I don't care if you work professionally for the church. I know our listeners, they want to serve the Lord.
They want to further the [00:27:00] gospel. They're volunteering, they're serving, even if they're just trying to be a good Christian witness to their coworkers and their neighbors and their family. It seems like that balance is lacking, right? I mean, you know, it's like, you know, mind, body, and spirit. It's like, well, I got one out of three, you know, it's like I, I pray, but I'm working so hard serving the Lord that I never eat well, or I don't sleep well, or I don't renew my mind or, you know, fill in the gap, the lie, maybe our own kind of, I think we all probably have a particular weakness, a part of.
What it means to live as a balanced human being. All of us, I think it probably, it seems like we have a temptation to cut corners somewhere, whether it's sleep or diet or exercise or ongoing intellectual formation. How have you seen this vision change people?

Christina: Well, it's interesting you would say that because I was speaking to a woman this morning after Mass and inviting her to join our class. And she said, "Oh, I'm so interested because I've seen such a change in this other woman." Wow. And she didn't specify exactly what it was, but people are noticing it. So what I think is really cool about it is you've got people like me who needed to get things in the right order and then you've got people who are very involved in ministry. They're on the faith development team, and they're giving of themselves to the point where they're depleted, right? And then you've got your people who are maybe [00:29:00] okay on the wellness part of it, but they're needing more of the faith development, and all these people come together in a reform class. Wow. And it, it's, you help each other. You know what I mean? Like you have, you have your, you know, we had Father Tom Fangman in the class last fall, and he was awesome. I mean, of course he's awesome, but he was, you know, I think it made an impression on him. I see him. I've heard him talking about, you know, he's trying to eat a little bit better, and he's paying a little more attention to that. You know, I think it's so important. Our priests are getting fewer and fewer, and we need to take care of the ones that we have.

Jim: Well, and the demands are more. Yeah. I mean, they're more than they've ever been.

Christina: Yeah. It's hard on them. And I, I really feel like reform helps them understand that they can't give unless they've got something to give, you know, they have to, we, it's really hard [00:30:00] to show Christ's love when your body hurts and you don't feel well, right? It's super hard to look at that person and be like, I see Jesus because no, I don't, I feel bad inside, you know, if you, and that can be physically or spiritually, right? Like, so that's the beautiful thing about it.

Jim: And I mean, I'm reminded as you're talking, I'm reminded to like a spiritual director very early on in my missionary career who, you know, we were talking about my prayer. And I mean, just kind of, it just kind of nailed me. It's like, uh, your decision to pray doesn't happen at 6 a. m. It happens at 9 p. m. Like what you decide to do at 9 p. m. Uh, if you decide, Yeah, I will go out or I will have another drink or another cake or whatever, you know, like it's your decision at the night before That determines the quality of of your prayer and and he's like [00:31:00] you might forget that you're a body and soul But the enemy doesn't, and the subtle temptation to get you to, you know, scroll or watch a, you know, watch another movie or do whatever that puts you to bed late, that's where the battle for your prayer is at.
And it was, it was a game changer. Like that advice changed my whole prayer routine. Um, and the quality of my prayer and it was because he reminded me, yeah, you're a body and soul and you just can't fake it if you're not getting the sleep you need.

Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Father Innocent says something very similar to the class. He says that once you've made the decision to pray, the sermon's over. You're doing it, you know, like, and it's so beautiful because, you know, for those people who don't have that relationship with the Lord yet, it's like, okay, well, I guess this is go time, you know, like we've decided we're going to set 30 minutes [00:32:00] aside. And that's part of our daily formation. And that's it. You don't, there's no, am I going to do it? It's right. We're doing it. You know, you don't, he says, you don't wake up and go, am I going to breathe today? Because you don't, you just do it. So I love that. And I feel like the people who are involved in ministry, they feel like they're doing good. Right. You know, they, they're wanting to give and give. And how can you say no to that when, you know, it's the right thing to do, or it feels like you're helping somebody. Yeah. Absolutely. And yet, you have to preserve your resources, your body, because if you want to continue to do what you're doing over the long haul, you have to care for your body too, you know, so.

Jim: Well, and there is a, I mean, this is maybe obvious, but it's probably worth saying, you know, saying it explicitly. There's a formation element, like a teaching element, because Many of us, we live in kind of a such a, a fractured world where, you know, here you are, you're a, you're a [00:33:00] fitness, uh, guru, you know, instructor, you're in that world for many years. And then you're like, Oh, and learning more about my prayer and the rhythms of sleep. And then on the other right, other side of the coin, so many ministers of the gospel, again, volunteers, professionals, like, boy, they know the catechism inside and out, but they don't really know the fundamentals of healthy movement, healthy sleep, healthy diet. I mean, in particular, you know, I mean. I'm not going to give any  health advice, but I can say when I was forced to pay attention to what good nutrition actually was because of my health condition, I began to discover this whole like, Oh, who knew there, there is a popular And largely untrue kind of, uh, nutritional wisdom. Just in the same way, there's kind of a popular wisdom about what makes for a healthy [00:34:00] spiritual life. And really discovering, okay, hey, what is, what is really true about healthy eating and sleeping and movement was something that I didn't really know. And it sounds like SoulCore is kind of providing this foundational, or excuse me, um, reform is providing this kind of foundational understanding of what health really looks like in all these dimensions of our life.

Christina: Yeah, it is. It's for, it's very much for me, Ben, how do I incorporate my faith into everything that I do so that I'm actually living it out, you know, and I would have said before I had a faith, you know, I would have said, I pray, you know, and I go to mass and I have a relationship with the Lord, but I don't think I really knew what it could look like. Like it was, I'm sure it was fine. It was good, but this has taken me further. This [00:35:00] has taken me deeper and I feel like I've gotten such a deeper sense of joy and peace from it. I was very healthy, but my faith was just kind of like parallel to it. Yeah. Well, compartmentalized.
Yeah. And I wasn't, I don't, I don't feel like I was especially. Nice. You know what I mean? Like, honestly, I, I didn't get the, I didn't make the connection, right? Like I didn't understand, like I thought I was being a good Christian, but I wasn't really practicing it. And so now I feel like because I'm incorporating a formation and there's more balance and I'm really putting Jesus first and I'm really asking Jesus.
Before I do things, you know, what should I do about this? You know? Yeah. What do you want me to do right now? Do you want me to go for a walk or do I need to sit here with my daughter and talk to her because she's hurting or you know what I mean? Like, it's, it's stuff like that, [00:36:00] that I would have been like taskmaster.
I've got to do this. I've got to do that. I've got to do this. And now I'm, I feel like I don't get as much done around my house, but I feel like I'm putting the people in my lives first. And I'm really more focused the way that I believe Jesus wants me to be, you know? 

Jim: Christina, as you're talking there, there's a, there's one word that's coming to mind.
It sounds like there's a freedom. Yeah. There's a greater freedom to be present to your child, your, your child or someone in need to have a glass of wine or a piece of cake to, you know, to have the energy you need for the task at hand, like just whatever way it shows up. You found a freedom and an integration, uh, through all this.

Christina: Yeah. And they, I think I've heard it said, I can't even remember where, but there is freedom in obedience. So when you are obedient to what the Lord is asking of you, there is a huge freedom there. [00:37:00] And that I would agree. That's what's happened to me. And it's made, you know, um, made me just more aware. Of the world around me so that I can be maybe a little bit more of a light for Christ to others because I mean, I would have been for been like out on the trail, you know, tearing it up going and now I stop and you know, I'll talk to.
Somebody that I see on the trailer, you know, and it's not about me. 

Jim: Yeah, that's, that's fantastic. Well, and again, you're, you're coming at it from a perspective where fitness was number one. Yeah. But I can see that same, I mean, in myself and I can see that same imbalance. Only my imbalance was more about intellectual formation or getting stuff done or and it's the same.
I mean, it's the same kind of root problem. Yeah. 

Christina: Pick your poison. I mean, there's so [00:38:00] many ways that we can get things out of order, you know, and, and I think that for sure reform has helped me with that and it's just helped me. I'm not doing it perfectly, you know, but it's something that I, it's an awareness.

Jim: Well, it's, I mean, it's kind of like this is, I'm almost embarrassed to say this, but I think part of what is attractive to a lot of people as they're watching kind of like the new, you know, Life of Jesus, the Chosen, uh, movie, is that when people see the way Uh, Jesus and, and the apostles are portrayed, uh, Jonathan Rumi especially with Jesus, he seems like a real person.
Yeah. But more than, but like a healthy real person. You see play. You see fun. You see. You know, deep conviction and intellectual, uh, you know, strength, but you, you see like this whole, you see him resting and eating. You see, I mean, one of the episodes, you see him working himself to exhaustion. You see this kind of complete picture.
Which, often is lacking in, in the caricatures we get about Jesus and the lives of the saints. Yeah. But when you really get the chance to be around someone who is truly healthy as an entire person, boy, it's all there. Yeah. And it rings true. 

Christina: Yeah. It's living fully alive, right? Yeah. You know, it's really, um, It brings you so much  more joy and gives you such a different lens to look at the world, you know, so, um, I, I think one of the things that separates us, you know, we're human beings and God created us in his image.
Yeah, we're not animals and we're not angels. We have a body. And because of the fall, we have a hard time [00:40:00] integrating the two, you know, it's a, it's a challenge. 

Jim: It's one of the consequences of sin is that we, we feel ill at ease sometimes in our body. 

Christina: Yeah. So it's just like we were saying, you know, some of us have, you know, a stronger faith.
Some of us have a, maybe a healthier lifestyle. Some of us. Yeah. So it's, it's finding that way of integrating the both and that just takes you, uh, that much closer to that fully alive and that much closer to what maybe God intended for us, you know? Yeah. Uh, hopefully. 

Jim: Yeah, Christina, our time is like totally flown here and we've been talking a lot about just like kind of like the benefits and what you've seen and regardless of Pick Your Poison, regardless of where you tend to be underdeveloped or where you tend to be overemphasized.
Talk a little bit just as you know, as somebody who's listening is like, okay, okay, I want this. I want to be free. I want to be integrated. What's a first step? [00:41:00] 

Christina: Well, I would invite them to go to soul core or reforms websites, um, soul core. You know, if you are just looking for a way to incorporate prayer and movement, that's going to be a great place to go.
They have a free two week. Trial, um, and they have videos on their website or come to St. Patrick's when I'm leading classes there if you want Um, and with reform I would go to their website for sure and go through um, you can play around on there and then there's also if you put links in your We do.

Jim: Yeah, we'll put a link in the show notes.

Christina: I can provide you with a link to their free webinars available on Vimeo. So you can check out some of their content there. Reform can also be taken as an online course, virtually, which is what I did initially. They are now offering it in a few parishes where they have individuals like me who have been through it [00:42:00] a few times and can act as guides, offering the class at the parish. I'm currently offering it at St. Patrick's. We did it in the fall, and we're doing a Lenten version now, with plans to continue offering it there. But if you're just wanting to learn more, I would definitely recommend visiting the website.

Jim: We'll put those in the show notes, but just share them here. How do people find SoulCore? What's the website? SoulCore.com. Okay. SoulCore.com and Reform.

Christina: The Reform website is a bit more complicated. It's reformwellness.co, I believe.

Jim: We'll put them both in the show notes, and then people can search. If you search for "Reform" on Google, you'll likely find the correct one.

Christina: Definitely. I think a simple search for "Reform" will bring up various relevant results.

Jim: You might end up finding the Presbyterian church though.

Christina: Could be. Yeah. There's a...

Jim: Christina, thank you. Thank you so much. Alright, everybody, I know right now you're thinking about somebody who needs to hear this. So, be safe, take good care of your body, wait until you're done driving. Don't try to share it while you're driving. But share this with somebody you know, offer them encouragement. Go check out the websites, Soulcore and Reform. We'll put those in the show notes for you. Christina, again, thank you for being here.

Christina: Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you for having me. All right.

Jim: Everybody, have a great day.