[00:00:00] Jim: Hey everybody, welcome to the EquipCast. All right, I have a beautiful conversation today with Father Damien Zuerlein, Deacon Doug Lenz, and Anne Lenz, talking about what the Lord has done at St. Francis Cabrini Parish here in Omaha, and just the beautiful people. ordinary natural way the Lord has guided them through discernment and building their clear path of discipleship.
It's an honest, uh, sometimes moving conversation. Uh, you're going to love it. Take a listen.
Hey everybody. Welcome to the EquipCast, a weekly podcast for the archdiocese of Omaha. I'm your host, Jim Jansen. Now let's dive into some encouragement and inspiration to equip you to live your faith and to be fruitful in your mission. Let's go.
All right everybody, welcome to the EquipCast. This episode is part of a special series on how to build a clear path of discipleship. Today we're going to zero in on the discernment phase. Now, a clear path is just a parish framework designed to help people take their next steps as disciples of Jesus.
It's your plan for making and maturing disciples. Parishes that have a clear path know exactly how they connect with people, how they foster conversion, how they help people grow as disciples, and how they equip people as missionary disciples. The concept is simple, but building a clear path doesn't happen overnight.
It happens in phases: assessment, discernment, implementation. Well, today I have with me Father Damien Zuerlein, Deacon Doug Lenz, and Ann Lenz from St. Francis Cabrini here in Omaha to talk about their experiences with discernment. How y'all doing? 

[00:01:43] Fr. Zuerlein: Good. 

[00:01:44] Dcn. Doug: Great. Thanks for having us. 

[00:01:45] Fr. Zuerlein: Happy to be here. 

[00:01:45] Jim: Okay. So, just to set the context for people. All of your work on building a clear path of discipleship happened at St. Francis Cabrini. Give people a little bit of a thumbnail sketch about, uh, St. Francis Cabrini Parish. 

[00:02:00] Fr. Zuerlein: Well, St. Francis Cabrini is the oldest Catholic parish in Omaha. It originally was St. Mary's, then it was St. Philomena's. Originally was downtown, uh, 9th, uh, between Howard and Harney.
When that area became industrialized, people didn't like going down there anymore. And so, they moved the parish up the hill. At the time, it was also the cathedral. So, they decided to build the cathedral way out west, uh, where the city was, the suburbs were developing. So that's how it ended up on 40th street with all the complaints that it was way too far west.
And Cabrini moved up the hill. The name changed. In, uh, the early 60s, when Filomena was taken off of the calendar of saints and Father Monsignor Faso thought that it should be named after, uh, Frances Cabrini, since she was the first, uh, American. Saint and was an Italian. 

[00:03:04] Jim: Italian. Yeah, because this is a deeply... 

[00:03:06] Fr. Zuerlein: Because Little Italy....

[00:03:06] Jim: Yes, like the sons of Italy is still right across the street. Yeah, great food. 

[00:03:12] Fr. Zuerlein: Santa Lucia is still a big festival from all the Carlentini-ites who moved to the Omaha area. So, That's the parish. At the time the Archbishop asked me to go there, it was in a declining, uh, time. There had been a lot of mergers of parishes in East Omaha.
This was one of those that was kind of destined, according to the study, to be closed. And it was only still kind of somewhat open because All Saints School was next to it, and Cuse was now running that. So, the archbishop invited me to, to take it over, been at Column Kills for 11 years. And so, I'm approaching that magic 12 year time.

[00:03:58] Jim: And offer the context, Columbkille is one of the largest parishes, huge suburban parish, one of the largest in the state. And Cabrini was not one of the largest in the state. 
[00:04:10] Fr. Zuerlein: Tiny, tiny. No, it's. So, I snuck in one Sunday just to 
see after the archbishop asked me and there were about 30 people at mass and I was trying to hide so that the present pastor wouldn't see me there.
And then I went back to the archbishop, and I said, I don't know why it's open. He kind of repeated that whole historical thing. He'd prefer not to close it. And the neighborhood is gentrifying. And so, it should. be able to survive. So, he said, just go and give it five years, have some fun. And if you can't do it in five years, we'll, we'll close it.
But I want to give it one more shot. So, I prayed about it a lot and then said, yes. And I was not good news for my column kill team because they were devastated because column kill is a bit over 3000 families to go from 3000 to 30. And then when I first got down there, it was... I was having a lot of second thoughts and a lot of times it was at the chancery complaining.
Cause things were, were not kept up. There was no staff, there was no bookkeeper, there was nothing. There was me. So, I was cleaning the church and changing light bulbs and doing all those kind of things. And then my friends were all like, you must have really made the archbishop mad. You did something wrong.
Cause, oh my gosh, why would? Even the prior pastor said, what did you do to make the archbishop so mad that he sends you here? This, this place is destined to close. You're just going to come here and close it. I said, no, that's not my plan. And, and in my prayer, I just kept thinking, okay, this will be an adventure.
And it really did take me out of my comfort zone. A lot of times in those first couple of years to go to places and to meet people where I wouldn't normally go, you know, to some concert downtown that I'm like, Oh, I don't like this music, but there I am wandering through the crowd trying to encounter people and meet people.

[00:06:21] Jim: That's such a great image though. I love it. I mean, how cool is it to have, have, you know, the archbishop say, just go have some fun, right? No, no risk. Go have some fun. And you did. You did have some fun. Oh, yeah. We're still having fun. Yeah. So, so I did. Yeah. Still having fun. Give people a little bit idea because you all have seen a resurgence and a renewal that is, and really, it's been an inspiration for us.
And I understand just recently, you had a chance just to share it kind of citywide with a number of pastors, uh, non-Catholics who heard a little bit of the story of what the Lord has done at Cabrini. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Talk a little bit, Anne, maybe about, like, just the new life that is now St. Francis Cabrini.

[00:07:05] Ann: Father just said, just have some fun. And I think that's what we're doing. From the get-go, everything we did, Father would say something along the lines of, well, we're going to enjoy this, and hopefully we'll just invite them in too. 

[00:07:19] Jim: Yeah. 

[00:07:20] Ann: And that has really been the approach. We've just had these encounters with people that are real, and that has changed our lives and I think a lot of lives have really been transformed.
It hasn't been about numbers ever. It has always been about truly trying to form disciples of Jesus and understanding that everybody comes at that at a different place. And I think that's still our goal, but we're having a good time doing it. 

[00:07:58] Jim: Yeah. And not that the neighborhood, it's not all homogenous, but it feels like a little millennial haven when you, when you walk in.
I mean, everybody's young and there's a, and downtown has, you know, gentrified and so then the neighborhood itself, but like the parish is shockingly disorientingly young and full of life. And it's really, and it, and it's not everyone. I mean, there's still a, it's still a diverse neighborhood, but it's really, it's very, very striking.

[00:08:28] Dcn. Doug: That was very intentional, at least in terms of our discernment, recognizing that for the future of our parish, for the future of the church, being able to engage young people. And we were in a unique opportunity because of our location. 

[00:08:45] Jim: Yeah. 

[00:08:45] Dcn. Doug: So, we really Targeted that population, and we have, I think, an advantage in that our past experience was working with young adults, and so it came pretty naturally.
Certainly, it comes naturally to Father Damien, and we fell in love with them and found opportunities for them to, you know, To give back in ways that they haven't previously and they're inviting their friends and word of mouth and so it's multiplying. 

[00:09:22] Jim: Yeah, and it's beautiful, I mean, to see, again, not that it's ever about the numbers.
But every number is a soul and the number of souls has gone up dramatically. You know, all the sacramental numbers that the people there, like it's really beautiful to see. You can, you can see the, the bounce. I mean, we could talk all day about the story of what happened there. I want people to get a little bit like, okay, so how'd you do it?
You all, I mean, just with total honesty, you all were working on a clear path before the word was cool, before there was a book, before you know that you were just doing it because you're like, okay, there's this person and I love them and they need to meet Jesus and then they need to grow after they meet Jesus.
And how do we help them do that? Discernment was such a part of what you all did. Just to start off, like, what does discernment mean to you all? As you think about that, like, what does it look like, uh, for you as a team to discern? 

[00:10:18] Fr. Zuerlein: So for me, it really is a process of testing, checking it out, praying over it, seeing if it's going to work, being willing to fail, being willing to be Open to, to where God might be leading us in that moment and to be, and to trust God that this is the right thing.
So, we ended up, uh, using alpha as one of our lead tools for both challenging people to grow spiritually and inviting people to know Jesus for the very first time. A lot of people who've been through Alpha at our place are not parishioners, not even Catholic, but it's designed to be that kind of tool that can be used.
We had formed a small group to begin looking at all the different Things that were out there, different programs, tools to use to invite people into relationship with the church and with Jesus. And so, we had, I had been through some of the Alpha stuff before, and I thought, well, you know, it's just another program.
And, Uh, we talked about it with this group as maybe alpha is a possibility. And we knew that, uh, Mary, our queen was running it. And so, uh, asked if anybody would be willing to check it out. And the, the woman who said she would do it, I thought, Oh, she's not going to like alpha. And so, she's going to come back and just say, we're never doing that.
That'll never work at Cabrini. And so off she went, and we continued to meet and think because it's 11 weeks and so she's going through the 11 week program. You had some time in between. Yeah, so then she comes back and says yes this is great and we should do it. How is that possible? She liked it. And so, then it was, okay, well how, let's test it out.
We'll get a group of our own parishioners, kind of key people, uh, who might be willing and see if they like it. So, we'll just run it. So, it was really Anne and Terry who put the whole, the whole thing together. 
[00:12:40] Ann: So, like I started in like November and we ran it in January. we moved. And I think that's something I think is a really kind of hopeful thing to say, like, don't sit and think too much.
If you think something might work, it doesn't have to be alpha, but whatever it is, trust the spirit a bit and go for it. 

[00:13:00] Dcn. Doug: You're never going to have everything perfectly set up. 

[00:13:03] Ann: And if you, if we could, Every time an idea was brought up for a long time, it was that, that, that won't work here. That will not work here.
People were just so confident. Nothing would work there. And I was thinking, you know what? Something will work here. 

[00:13:17] Jim: Yeah. 

[00:13:17] Ann: And I think we all kind of thought, trust the spirit a little, would you? 

[00:13:21] Jim: And I love how you, when you tried it, you, you're like, it wasn't like, all right, everybody in the parish, you're like, well, let's just, let's send, let's send somebody to check it out.
And it doesn't, you know, and then, okay, well, let's try it with a small group. And you just kind of kept taking little steps. 

[00:13:34] Ann: And that initial small group, our initial small group, oh my gosh, that changed our lives. It's extremely personal. What happens in the small group when you're sharing your faith? And growing and loving each other.
That has changed our parish. Over and over again. And the hospitality that comes when people really love each other. Oh my gosh, it's gorgeous. And I think that's, The listening to people and the hospitality that comes from that, that was a gift of Alpha for our parish, for sure. 

[00:14:11] Fr. Zuerlein: Accepting people where they are and just letting them be.

[00:14:15] Dcn. Doug: And Alpha is a great tool, but it isn't Alpha. I mean, it really is about that meeting people where they're at, knowing them, seeing them, loving them, and then being willing to walk with them. 

[00:14:30] Jim: Yeah. 

[00:14:31] Dcn. Doug: And that's where you see the fruit. 

[00:14:35] Jim: You know, as I listen to you talk, you paint a very active picture of discernment.
So it, it, it decidedly does not seem like, you know, all right, we're going to send father off into the chapel and you know, and he can come out as soon as you have, as soon as you have your revelation, like come, come down and we'll write it down. It seems very, very active and it seems very communal. I mean, there's, you've dropped a lot of names.
How much of that is just intuitive? to you all and how much of that is an intentional effort to discern in that way. 

[00:15:09] Fr. Zuerlein: So, luckily, over the years, I had great pastors to learn under, who kind of always approached things from a group approach. So, it wasn't the pastor from his inner chamber has the great insight for a parish, that it was the Holy Spirit working among the people.
And so, learning to do that together. So, Part of me was learning from them how to listen to the presence of God in what people are saying and how people are acting and looking for the fruits that are there. That kind of became my style. Um, just one of the blessings, I've come to see it as a blessing. My father died when I was in the seminary and, and in those days the diocese didn't give us money.
To be in the seminary. So, all my expenses I had to bear and we weren't supposed to have jobs while we were in the seminary. But another seminarian and I got jobs working at St. Timothy's in Blaine, Minnesota. So, we would go there a couple times a week to help with the youth ministry team. There were five of us on the youth ministry team.
There were a thousand teenagers in the parish. And we were, so we'd have a couple hundred kids show up and everybody would think, that's so great. For That's only about 10 percent of the group, but it was a crowd. But the parish, it was even bigger than Column Kills. So, there were three priests managing about, about 15, 000 people.
And so, they had a large staff, and uh, and there everything was done that way. It was done together. Reflecting together, working together, dreaming together, praying together to come up so that it was, it was a good, uh, opportunity for me to, to learn from the very beginning, uh, that it's that kind of approach, not father's idea.
Some parishioners have great ideas that the leadership team and Cabrini has great ideas. So, I listen a lot. 

[00:17:25] Jim: I want to give Deacon and Ann, what does this, what does that style do for you? Like, what's the significance of that? 

[00:17:33] Dcn. Doug: It's huge because I feel empowered. And I know that what I do, if I do it in good faith, Father's got my back.

[00:17:44] Jim: Hmm. 

[00:17:46] Dcn. Doug: I don't have to worry about that. 

[00:17:48] Jim: Mm-Hmm.

[00:17:50] Dcn. Doug: That's a great gift because then you can take action. You can take initiative. 

[00:17:56] Jim: Mm-Hmm.

[00:17:57] Dcn. Doug: And I think that's important. 

[00:18:01] Jim: Well, and right. All the studies say that's the prerequisite for creativity. People have to feel safe to fail, to take risk. I mean, you said that earlier.
We're not afraid. Afraid to fail. Otherwise, they don't. And if you don't take risks, there's no creativity then there's no, there's no, yeah. No room for the spirit to come. Surprise. 

[00:18:20] Ann: I second what Doug said. And I don't like to fail. I mean, it's like, in me, I don't like to fail. And yet, I think we've taken these leaps of faith.
For me, discernment has been a little bit more like, if you give your life to the Lord, and you find moments every single day to kind of refresh that, you can step forward trusting that He'll take you somewhere. I don't know where it is, but the Lord will take us somewhere, and man, have we seen that? Just this.
We were just talking about, it's more beautiful, it's deeper, it's more interesting. I'm more in love with the people we serve than I ever thought we would ever be. 
Isn't that true? 

[00:19:07] Dcn. Doug: They're the closest people in our lives. 

[00:19:11] Jim: Yeah, not, it's not just a job. 

[00:19:12] Ann: Not a job at all. 

[00:19:14] Jim: Yeah. I want to go back to, to something you said, because I think, you know, maybe some of us, some listeners might be tempted to imagine discernment as a little bit of a formulaic thing.
You know, okay, I'm just going to kind of wait for this epiphany, but, and I just want to zero in what you said there. The way you're describing it, it's like, I don't know. I tell Jesus he can do anything and then I just go do stuff. Right? It's like, I'm not going to get this right, but kind of Augustine's, you know, like, love and do what you will.
Talk a little bit about that. You mentioned there's just a couple of times that you took some leaps. Can you kind of like, tell those stories where you found yourselves? On the precipice of a big decision. 

[00:19:52] Ann: They're not big decisions because I'm not worried that I'm going to get fired. I mean, it's more like, okay, let's, let's just try something a little maybe bizarre.
Maybe we should do like a silent retreat as a parish. Well, I don't know if that'll work. I don't know if anybody will go, but I think the Lord might be really excited to spend some quiet time with our people. They're great. And then what, 60? We went out to Griswold, lined up all the little details, which there are a million details.
Oh yeah. And walked around in the silence for four days, was it? With people we absolutely love. And oh my gosh, it was moving. Well, how in the world? Everybody's so busy. Young people are so busy. How do you get them to take four days to, how do you give them, get them to give Tuesday nights for 11 weeks for 18 alphas?

[00:20:49] Jim: Yeah. 

[00:20:51] Ann: Well, they do it. Why?
I don't know. They're busy. They sure make some sort of choice about a priority. 

[00:21:02] Jim: Mm hmm. 

[00:21:03] Ann: That's great. We see it over and over again. We never have a problem with teams of anything. Yeah. Because so many people are willing to give up their time. It wasn't like that at first, but it is like that now. 

[00:21:18] Jim: What shifted?

[00:21:20] Ann: They grew. Relationship is deeper. They know it's a gift. They know they need to give back. 

[00:21:29] Dcn. Doug: And I think it's an ownership piece, because it's we. It doesn't matter who you're talking to, it's we, I mean, and this is a, this isn't just a small group. I mean, this is like 80 people who are saying, this is what we do at Cabrini.

[00:21:46] Jim: Yeah. That's fantastic. Is there, I mean, it almost sounds like there's another layer of kind of, I mean, not just ownership, but an almost kind of a communal, uh, father, I think you kind of referenced this. It's like when you listen to people. It's like you're, you're being informed about where the Lord is opening doors and where he's inviting you to step forward.
Even if you're not coming with a specific question, do I do this or do I do this? Can you talk a little bit about how your interactions with your parishioners is kind of shaping your understanding of where the Lord's inviting you? 

[00:22:23] Fr. Zuerlein: Well, certainly the Lord regularly speaks through parishioners. And I think they're feeling, because of both Alpha Cabrini Communities and just the regular invitation for them to tell their stories, that they're feeling more confident that they are speaking a truth.
And so can, can say it, they could articulate it in a clearer way, or they're hearing God, seeing God in their life. And then it's just, you know, For me to pay attention to that, uh, presence of God, when Jesus says, where two or three are gathered, there am I in the midst of them. I think the important thing there is that Jesus is in the midst.
So, it's in the conversation. It is in the, it's the between peoples where. The presence of Jesus is felt. So sometimes it's one person telling their story who's telling, then that triggers another story and another story. And so, we come to a deeper understanding of how Jesus is or who he is by that.
sharing of it. So, we can't even as a parish do something like watch Chosen without doing some storytelling. So, what we've, what we've done is these fireside chats as part of doing the Chosen together. So, we'll just zoom it together and then invite people to, we sit on a couch and watch the, that episode and then people tell their story.
And We get greater insights from that storytelling them because they'll say, well, did you see what Jesus did here and somebody else pointing it out or what they captured there makes it better for, for all of us to, to share that. So, it's just kind of become a part of who we are in that, that storytelling.

[00:24:24] Ann: It's constant storytelling at Cabrini. Yeah. Everything we do is a sharing of stories, like, well, and, and it's funny, our parish mission this year is going to be music and silence, and then one person witnessing, telling how they're giving a deeper yes to the Lord, or how they've been asked, or just a deeper yes to the Lord.
So, we ask people to get up in front of the whole congregation, and sure, we, it's never a no. Wow. It's never a null. 

[00:24:57] Dcn. Doug: For the last nine weeks, every single Mass, we've had somebody get up and share their story about how their involvement in Cabrini community has impacted their life. And these are really powerful stories that people share.
And again, it's an opportunity for them to articulate how Jesus is working in their life. And in doing that, we, we know that for us, as we share from our life, it goes deeper. 

[00:25:30] Jim: Yeah. 

[00:25:30] Dcn. Doug: And that sharing is important. 

[00:25:33] Jim: The three of you are here, and you've been together for a while. I want to give you, just to, like, speaking of stories, how did the Lord bring you together?

[00:25:43] Dcn. Doug: It's a good story. 

[00:25:44] Jim: It's, I happen to know it, so... But not everybody listening does. 

[00:25:48] Fr. Zuerlein: I didn't know them. 

[00:25:50] Ann: I knew him.

[00:25:51] Fr. Zuerlein: She had been on a CEC. 

[00:25:54] Ann: Yeah. 

[00:25:55] Fr. Zuerlein: Yeah. I'd seen her face before in the crowd. 

[00:25:57] Ann: So yeah, I did a CEC in spring of oh-nine. 

[00:26:03] Jim: Which is a... it's kind of a, a weekend conversion moment retreat.

[00:26:06] Ann: If you haven't it, you really should do it.

[00:26:07] Jim: Yeah. Curcio is, there's a, a...

[00:26:10] Ann: Yeah. 

[00:26:10] Jim: They're cousins. 

[00:26:10] Ann: Truly. 

[00:26:11] Jim: Yeah. 

[00:26:11] Ann: I really feel like. You're a knucklehead if you don't just give it a try. Because it's beautiful. And it opens your eyes up to the Lord in a new way. And I was very familiar with the movement. My parents made Cursio in 1971. And I grew up in that environment.
And my dad passed away and I did this retreat. Actually, Doug went first and he came home and he said, Oh my God, Anne, I met men who love the Lord and their Catholic. 

[00:26:42] Jim: Yeah. Oh wow. 

[00:26:44] Ann: And I cried, and I said, I better have the same experience. And I did. And funny enough, who's the spiritual director on my weekend?
Father Damien Zuerlein. I just remember that being, that was impactful. I know I was on a spiritual journey long before that, but that was just another awakening in there. So anyway, Doug's in the diaconate, I don't want to hijack the story, but Doug's in the diaconate, all of a sudden, he slips out that he doesn't think he'll be at Holy Cross, which was our parish, that he thinks he would probably go somewhere they need a deacon more.

[00:27:19] Dcn. Doug: How'd that go? Well, it was, uh, I mean, it was well received from the formation team. I don't know if it was as well received from my spouse. She was a little more reluctant. You know, there were four deacons at Holy Cross, and they were all active and younger. And so, I thought there's gotta be a place where I could be used more.
And so, I happened to mention it to my formation team and I don't know, a couple of weeks later, one of them said, have, have you ever thought about St. Francis keep reading? And I'm like, no, I mean, I haven't clearly. And then. It was a couple weeks later, and it was, we were having dinner with a priest friend of ours and he said, have you ever thought about St.
Francis Cabrini? In particular, this priest, Father Jim O'Kane, who's now deceased, was very in touch with the Spirit. And I knew that about him and I'm like, I think we better pay attention to this. 

[00:28:22] Ann: Then he finds out the pastor is? Father Damien. And I said, "Doug, check it out! He'd be a great one to learn under. I mean, baby deacon, you gotta learn.

[00:28:32] Jim: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:28:33] Ann: So, Doug reaches out, it's a snowstorm, Father answers the phone because father's the only one there.

[00:28:40] Jim: Because he is the secretary. 

[00:28:41] Ann: He is. 

[00:28:41] Fr. Zuerlein: Right. 

[00:28:42] Ann: And we went down in that snowstorm and had a conversation, back to you Doug. 

[00:28:46] Dcn. Doug: Yeah, and he said, You know, if there's, if there's something you want to do, you can certainly do it here because there's nothing here. 

[00:28:55] Jim: After you go through the interview process.

[00:28:59] Dcn. Doug: And I said, Oh yeah, I'm thinking to myself, well, that was easy enough. And I said, what, what kind of, uh, what's your plan or what do you see happening? 

[00:29:10] Ann: This isn't looking good. 

[00:29:12] Dcn. Doug: He said, I trust the Holy Spirit to bring people like you here to help. 
[00:29:20] Ann: And over and over again, continuously, we've watched God bring the right people at the right time to do the right things.
And it's just been a joy. 

[00:29:30] Jim: We always pray right before, you know, before I hit record on an EquipCast episode, we always pray to the Spirit and invite Him to be in this conversation. He's been a part of your conversation, right? It's actually not a three-person partnership. It's at least a four-person partnership.
Okay, five, six, if you count the rest of the members of the Trinity, but you get the idea. How do you like tangibly for those who, you know, I don't think anybody listening is like, well, I don't want to listen to the Holy Spirit. But if we're honest, sometimes we don't. Like, we just move too fast, we miss him.
Like, how do you dispose yourself to hear him? And not just individually, but as a, as a group. Like, how do you know it's him? How do you, how do you get yourself ready to, to receive it? Because everybody wants to, if we remember. How do you remember? 

[00:30:19] Fr. Zuerlein: Quiet and solitude is kind of a part of my spirituality. So, it, How I begin my day and, hmm, so it's trying to, to listen to the spirit as the spirit wants me to work and then trusting that the spirit is going to be there once I've surrendered to the spirit for that day.
So, it's, It's listening and then trusting those two things together because actually once I get into my day, prayer isn't a real part of it because it's too busy. Um, there are too many things going on. There's too much to get done. So, so once the day begins, I just have to trust then, okay, the spirit's going to be here in this and the spirit will help me to know the right thing to say or the, or what to be listening to or what to pay attention to.
Other than actual times where we go away, our team really doesn't spend a lot of time in prayer together. But I think they're all very prayerful people. So, they bring that sense of prayer wherever they go, um, in our, in our gathering. Does that ring true? 

[00:31:40] Dcn. Doug: Absolutely. Well, and I think too. We all start our day in... 

[00:31:44] Ann: Silence. 

[00:31:45] Dcn. Doug: In silence. 

[00:31:46] Ann: Every day. 

[00:31:46] Dcn. Doug: And I know a Father does, and he knows we do. 

[00:31:49] Jim: Yeah. 

[00:31:49] Dcn. Doug: And I think that level of confidence because I know that's my team is grounded in prayer. 

[00:31:57] Ann: And I don't think God wants us to sit around and pray all day.
Oh, wait pray always I know I know But you give your life to the Lord you spend time with the Lord and then you move it. 

[00:32:09] Jim: Mm hmm. 


[00:32:10] Ann: You do something and what we do isn't so important. It's not so important It's just that we're trying to be the hands and feet of Christ, trying to love the people God's put in our little corner of the kingdom well.
And then you go back and start again, over and over again. 
[00:32:30] Dcn. Doug: But the other thing we don't even really think about, because it's just such a part of our daily routine. Mass of the day, sure. As a leadership team, we're almost always at daily mass together. 

[00:32:39] Jim: Yeah, that's beautiful. It's so simple. I mean, we, you're used to hearing the Lord's voice.
Right? Every morning, quiet, you're listening, and then you're like, alright, we're gonna love the people in front. And we're gonna trust that even if I am not conscious in the moment of trying to do what the Lord wants, He's pretty good at leading the blind and the deaf, and you know, and so like, He's just gonna be there.
And even if I screw it up, he's going to fix it. 

[00:33:13] Fr. Zuerlein: Or even in the screw ups were intentional, sometimes if a call doesn't get returned or things go wrong, then somehow God was even active in that. Somebody got better on their own, didn't need me, or, or provoked some other discussion that took place. Yeah, so sometimes my screw ups God uses well.

[00:33:41] Ann: Father said not long ago somewhere, and it just slipped out, but we really don't have to be successful. We just have to be Jesus. We just have to keep showing up as Jesus. And I think, um, when we show up, people do see Jesus. And I think that's true of our community. When they come around us, they say, Hmm, something weird.
Yeah. It's something weird. 

[00:34:13] Jim: Anne, would you, I mean, this is deep stuff. You all are, I mean, you can tell, you can, you can feel, I can see the little sparkle in your eyes. Uh, I think most people can probably hear it in your voice. This is, I mean, this is just. Deep, beautiful stuff. And can you tell this, but it's not just, it's not just you all, right?
People can feel it when they come. And would you tell the story? I mean, you, you get a lot of visitors that come through because of your proximity to downtown and, you know, so any special event, college world series, whatever, any of those things, people like, well, you know, they just Google the closest Catholic church and they end up at Cabrini and then they experience something.
Can you tell a little bit of some of the feedback? 

[00:34:52] Ann: It's all the time. I mean, I shared at one point a letter we got, but I could say a weekend ago, I was at the 530 Mass and a guy stops me and he's just moved here from Sioux City, Iowa, if you're listening, hi. And he's teaching at Westside schools and he's, he's parish shopped.
And I know there are a lot of beautiful parishes in Omaha. That's where I'm going to stop. But he said, I just love it here. And I said, why Cabrini? He said, people just, he felt so welcomed by people the first weekend. And then he said in the second weekend, somebody was teasing him about, Oh, sat in the same spot.
Like we notice people. Wow. It wasn't me. It wasn't anybody in this room, but it was somebody reached out to this person who was new, and he said, There's just a special feel here. I don't know what it is. We hear that a lot. Father, what is it? 

[00:35:52] Jim: Yeah, they don't know what it is, but I hope you guys know what's the special feel.

[00:35:56] Dcn. Doug: You gotta tell the rest of that story though. 

[00:35:58] Ann: Well, the muffins? 

[00:35:59] Dcn. Doug: Yeah. 

[00:35:59] Ann: The third week, the third week this person don't know who this is. brought him muffins. And we were all laughing, like, who brings muffins to church? Well, some lady did, hands him the muffins. And the husband says to him, she doesn't make me muffins.
He said, she brought me muffins. I mean, it was. That's the stuff that's happened. That's like magical. 

[00:36:24] Jim: Yeah. Well, and this is I'm trying to listen right for the listeners who some of you and I love you because I'm there too. Some of the listeners are just maddened by this. Like, what's the plan? What's the hospitality system?
And they're like, I don't know. We just notice people and then we say hi and then we make a muffins apparently, you know, like it's just...

[00:36:43] Fr. Zuerlein: It's noticing. 

[00:36:44] Ann: Yeah, they're paying attention. Do you know how bad people want to be seen right now in our world? 

[00:36:49] Jim: Oh, yeah. 

[00:36:50] Dcn. Doug: And it is a culture. I mean, that's the, we have a culture of hospitality.

[00:36:55] Jim: Yeah. 

[00:36:55] Dcn. Doug: And there's a lot of reasons for that. Certainly, father's leadership and, and ability to see people and pull out their gifts. And that's particularly true with hospitality that we, during COVID in particular, our young people who were less vulnerable was kind of an opportunity to bring them in and have them serve on our hospitality crew.
And then of course, since we've, you know, you can tell the people who are warm and inviting.

[00:37:26] Ann: It's a charism. 

[00:37:26] Dcn. Doug: And that's who you're going to see when you come to Cabrini.

[00:37:29] Ann: It's a powerful charism. Oh, totally. And funny, we were talking about how you just trust the Lord will make things happen and sometimes in the weirdest ways. COVID? COVID strengthened us so much in that our young people had to, they had to help.
We needed them. 

[00:37:46] Jim: Yeah. 

[00:37:46] Ann: And they just, oh, they jumped in. And then like, I remember right after that, we're like, well, what do we stop all our programs or what are, what we're offering? And then we'll try Alpha via Zoom. Of course, it was the largest one we had ever had, doesn't even make sense. And from there, just, it's been surprise after surprise, I'd say.

[00:38:07] Dcn. Doug: And, and, you know, back to your point about what people feel when they come. We had a couple that was traveling from Chicago to Denver, I think, and they stopped. This was their stopping point or whatever. And it happened to be our advent tree lighting, which was, it's not a huge deal. Just after church, we sing a song, a couple of prayers.
And I said, I don't know what it is about this parish, but I'm tempted to drive six hours to come here on the weekends. 

[00:38:37] Jim: You can't make that up. That's like six and a half. You're going to need parking. Wow. I want to give you a moment just to think. You've been on this journey for a while, and you've been on the journey together, and it's been surprising and fruitful and beautiful and wonderful.
If, if you could go back, either to yourselves at the start of the journey, or to someone, someone who's just starting the journey, you know, for their own parish. And there may be a little overwhelmed, a little insecure, not quite sure where to begin. What would you say to them? 

[00:39:15] Fr. Zuerlein: Trust that the Lord intends something good here and it, it'll happen.
Just so keep trusting that, that God's going to be there. Um, if it doesn't work, that wasn't his plan. So, it's not your problem. I regularly remind God that it's his parish, not mine, his church. I don't have to do this. I'm not going to do this. Just working for you, God, and if you want this to work, great, if not, shut it down, trust that God's gonna be there, and then enjoy it.
Yes, things are demanding sometimes, some things take a lot of work, and you're tired, but if you're not enjoying it, that's not a good sign. Because then the people aren't gonna enjoy it either, so you have to enjoy it. So, if people are moaning and groaning about a program, then don't do it. It should be good.

[00:40:17] Ann: I would say the ship is not sinking. I think sometimes as church, we act desperate and weird and like, oh no, this isn't going well. And that is not true of the Church of Jesus Christ. That is not true. It's not going anywhere. So, what can we do? And then like Father said, enjoy it. Get to know some people.
Watch for their gifts. I always, they tease me about inviting people. I have never invited one person at St. Francis Cabrini that I didn't really like. Not once. Hmm. Fall in love with people. Yeah. 

[00:41:01] Dcn. Doug: That's what I was going to say too. That relationship is so important. Just, just love people and that's so easy to do.
And I think along the way, certainly my experience has been that people are responding in ways that it's totally reinforcing. And so, you know you're on the, moving on the right track. If you love people, it's going to take care of itself. 
[00:41:29] Jim: I mean, you, you said father, you know, like there's something 
about this in the midst, right?
As we're loving one another, that's where the Lord is present and revealing himself and leading the way. Thank you. This is a beautiful conversation. Really appreciate your honesty, your passion. Thank you. Your, your work has been an inspiration to a lot of folks here in the archdiocese and I know beyond as well.
So, thank you. 

[00:41:54] Ann: Did we do better than Steven, Brie, and Joe? 

[00:41:57] Jim: I mean, that wasn't really that hard, was it? So, we'll have to cite. I don't know what episode; I wish I knew what episode number they were. I mean, Brie was pretty good. So, we'll, we'll, we'll let the listeners decide that we can put out a poll. All right, everybody, you know, somebody who needs to hear this, somebody who needs the encouragement, the inspiration, just a simple permission to love.
To trust and to go, go take a chance. So, share this out when you get to your destination and thanks for listening. 
Thanks for listening to the equip cast. We hope this episode has inspired you to live your faith and equip you to be fruitful in your mission. Stay connected with us by going to Equip.Archomaha.org. God bless and see you next time.