[00:00:00] Jim Jansen: Hey, everybody. Welcome to the EquipCast. So, Dave Nodar and I just got done having the most wonderful conversation. Dave is the leader for Christ Life, a ministry that helps parishes share the core message of the gospel with their parishioners, helps them mature them, and then equip them to share their faith.
Dave and I sit down, we talk about the call to evangelization from the church, uh, his own story and the wonderful fruit happening as parishes begin to rediscover their missionary identity and begin to evangelize their people and their neighborhoods to fantastic conversation. You're really going to love it.
Take a listen. Hey everybody. Welcome to the EquipCast, a weekly podcast for the Archdiocese of Omaha. I'm your host, Jim Jansen. Now let's dive into some encouragement and inspiration to equip you to live your faith and to be fruitful in your mission. Let's go.
Dave Nodar, welcome to the EquipCast. How are you doing today? 
[00:01:05] Dave Nodar: Doing good, Jim. Nice to be with you. 
[00:01:06] Jim Jansen: Yeah, it's really nice to be with you too. We were Regular listeners of the EquipCast know that they can always tell because oftentimes I'll reference like the great conversations that we've been having before.
We turned on the microphones, uh, and hit, hit record. This is maybe the longest, uh, pre conversation. Uh, we were having so much fun and then we're like, Oh gosh, we ought to actually record this thing. So, Dave, we, we like to start off giving people a chance to, uh, tell a little bit about their faith journey.
So, Dave, what's your, what's your story? 
[00:01:39] Dave Nodar: Yeah, well, thanks, Jim. I'm happy to share it because it's where it all began by God's grace and mercy. I was raised in a good Catholic family in the 50s and 60s back when there were horse drawn carts. 
[00:01:53] Jim Jansen: Wait, the 1850s? 
[00:01:55] Dave Nodar: Yeah. 
[00:01:56] Jim Jansen: You look fabulous then, by the way. 
[00:01:58] Dave Nodar: Yeah. The inside of the tires are what's bald.
Yeah. Anyhow. That time was such a tumultuous time, particularly the sixties. And in 64, as a young teenager, a group came on an entertainment show at the Ed Sullivan show from Liverpool, the Beatles. And I said, that's what I want to be. And that's what I want to do. So, I got a guitar and throughout my teen years from 13, right on up till I was 20, I played in rock and roll bands.
and embraced more and more completely the whole hippie scene and all that comes with that counterculture and was drifting increasingly away from our catholic faith and all the promises That were made to me, weren't true, weren't were bankrupt. And I increasingly felt angst and a sense of emptiness when I would stop, you know, and not think, uh, uh, maybe there's a better party somewhere, you know, court bystanders then that would satisfy what I was looking for.
But the damage was done in my upper teens. I knew. This is not doing it, no matter the success of local band, girlfriends, drugs, whatever. Nothing was doing it. And uh, would you like me to share little specific things that happened? 
[00:03:29] Jim Jansen: I mean, yeah, if you want, I just get, I love the way you're, you're talking about this at David sounds.
I mean, you know, we're not that far, uh, we're still in the Easter season here as we're recording this. We're not that far away. you know, from the kind of renewal of baptismal promises and like kind of rejecting the lies, the empty promises of the devil. And I just hear you're like, yeah, that was my story.
[00:03:51] Dave Nodar: That's it. Yeah. Wow. I'll go on, Jim. I wasn't planning on doing this, but for evangelists, Merciful evangelists came to me during the upper part of my teens. My Irish grandmother who lived with us pulled me aside and said, David, I'm very concerned about you. And so, I'm going to begin praying three rosaries a day for you.
And I probably said something like whatever, but I should have known I was busted. It was serious. That was number one. Number two, a young Newly ordained priest who's now a retired bishop. He befriended me despite my long hair and the way I looked, he befriended me mass. I still had to go to mass. My father insisted, if you're going to live at home, you go to mass.
I could see the scowls and the faces of judgment towards me, which was great adolescent excuse to drop out. But he befriended me. And he got me involved in serving. And, uh, the third thing that happened was my parents got involved with something really unique back then in the late sixties, early seventies, in a Bible study at Loyola University.
And my mom said, would you like to read the New Testament? Well, the only thing I knew was the readings we hear at mass and reading the New Testament undid me. 
[00:05:19] Jim Jansen: Oh, that's great. 
[00:05:21] Dave Nodar: Because of the gospels. the way the Lord was interested in people like me. 
[00:05:27] Jim Jansen: Yes. Wow. Oh, that's so good, Dave. 
[00:05:30] Dave Nodar: Yeah. And then finally, a young fellow hippie who had not been raised as a Christian became a Christian.
and uh, sort of bushwhacked us. He invited us to a party in which his intention was to tell us how Jesus Christ had changed his life. We're thinking we're going up there for some kind of party, and he wanted to just hear what had happened in his life. And it was so very simple, and it was the twofold, his willingness to say, Jesus changed my life.
And Dave, he can change yours. That's number one. And number two, I knew this guy for years. 
[00:06:09] Jim Jansen: Yes. 
[00:06:10] Dave Nodar: And he was changed. He was peaceful. He was joy filled. This was not the man he was prior to that. 
[00:06:18] Jim Jansen: Yes. I, I love that. I can't resist. Like often the best, like the newest converts Are the best missionaries, even though they're maybe not fully formed yet, and they're still maybe a little rough around the edges, but they want, they still know people who are not Christians or not living as Christians and, and to what the Lord has done to actually transform them is just irrefutable.
[00:06:46] Dave Nodar: That's right. 
[00:06:47] Jim Jansen: And when they're given freedom and commission to share that, people are like, okay, I mean, I've known you a while and this has got to be God because that's, because you're a different person. 

[00:06:56] Dave Nodar: That's it. So, the next, next three months, March 1971, I had come to a point where everything was falling apart.
The Beatles fell apart, my band fell apart, my girlfriend and I broke up, and I was at a commune, supposed to go out with these two ladies that live there. They got down on this synthetic type of heroin. I was not into that kind of stuff, but they had me wait in the kitchen. They came out, they were totally falling asleep.
And I got up, my eyes could see finally this whole scene and where it leads to is not going to bring me life. So, I started to leave, and the one girl came out and I just said that, I said, This is not where it's at. And I went home and got out my Bible. And the next morning, March 11th, 1971, I called this friend of mine up and asked if I could go see him and here, here's the thing, Jim, and this is so important for us as Catholics, let alone those who, who are unbaptized or other Christians.
I went out to him, and I said, I want what you have, but I don't know how to get it. 

[00:08:05] Jim Jansen: And that's huge because I think we, especially, I love the way you said that. I think, I think this is what you meant. Like as Catholics, most of us were baptized as infants. And if we didn't wander away, it is puzzling for us.
Like we've never, sometimes we've never seen someone who is not been living. at least nominally Catholic, come in and like, we're like, Oh yeah, there's this thing. It's like RICA. Wait, no, R C I A. You know? And like, but we, we don't know how to help someone encounter the Lord. 

[00:08:35] Dave Nodar: That's right. That's right. And it's a critical part of what is necessary for us to be evangelizing as Catholics.
You know, I did, I did a talk at a church recently at the beginning of Advent. Uh, and it was on how to make this advent the best ever, and it was after masses. And what I said was, do you realize every week you, and this is a large number of people, I said, you say, I believe, and then here's the things we believe that.
He was sent for our salvation. He will come again in glory. Do you realize you're saying, I actually believe this? 

[00:09:12] Jim Jansen: Yes. 

[00:09:13] Dave Nodar: Not just checking off the boxes or Easter visual. I renounced Satan. You know, I believe in God, the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit. Well, do you, we can check off the boxes and not own it personally.
We own it together as church. But there's a personal responsibility based on baptism as adults to say, I choose by my will. 

[00:09:38] Jim Jansen: Yes. Well, I remember the changes right in the, in the liturgy. Many of our listeners probably remember this, but this very, one of the very subtle changes in the mass was, you know, with the new English translation is, Beginning the creed, not with we believe, but with I believe, and I'm not saying it in isolation.
I'm part of a community when I'm saying it, but I'm saying I believe it's like I've heard a speaker very similar kind of to your message. It's like, do you believe? That what you believe is really real. Yes, that's it. And when I think about it, like, do I believe that what I say I believe is really real, I'm like, uh, Oh, probably not.
Or at least I don't act that way most of the time. 

[00:10:20] Dave Nodar: So anyhow, what he said was, this is very simple, Dave, get down on your knees. and talk out loud to Jesus and tell him what you want. And I'm thinking like, Oh my goodness, do I say a Hail Mary? Do I say the glory? You know, he's saying, talk to Jesus. Honestly.
I simply said, Jesus helped me. 

[00:10:44] Jim Jansen: Yes. 

[00:10:45] Dave Nodar: And from my guts and I immediately encountered the love of God, the love of the forgiveness of my sins, which I later went to confession for, but I experienced his mercy and then power. And here's the thing, Jim, for a couple of years, I've been trying to get out of my whole lifestyle of sin and couldn't do it.
I knew. with my knower right then. 

[00:11:12] Jim Jansen: Yes. 

[00:11:13] Dave Nodar: I had power to change, and it wasn't me. 

[00:11:16] Jim Jansen: Yes. 

[00:11:17] Dave Nodar: The release of the Holy Spirit given at baptism. I'd later come to understand that theologically, but that's what happened. I made an affirmation of what my sponsors did at baptism now. And that, that was the life changing point.
And if I, if I can mention one other thing that might be of use to you, but let me say Oh, Father in heaven, thank you for the mercies that you've shown to every one of us in Jesus Christ by his death and his rising and giving us your very presence, the Holy Spirit, to change us and to make us witnesses of a whole new life.

[00:11:58] Jim Jansen: Dave, how long, how long ago was this? 

[00:12:00] Dave Nodar: '71, March '71. 

[00:12:02] Jim Jansen: The way you talk about it and being, you know, I can, I can see your face and I can hear it in your voice. It's still fresh. It's still, it's still real. It's still alive. It's like yesterday you're like, I have to just kind of stop and praise the Lord here in the middle of this conversation because I'm just, I can see it.
So, you're still right there and filled with that gift. Really beautiful. Yeah. 

[00:12:26] Dave Nodar: May never change that because that's the foundation of our life is Christ is Lord and what he's done for us for the love of Christ controls us because we are convinced that one has died for all therefore all have died and he died that those who live might live no longer for themselves, but for him and for their sake died and was raised.
I mean, that's reality. Yeah. Sure. So, I'll flip real quick, Jim, into where I think you'd probably want to go, but this young priest who got me involved in some things, got me involved with CCD for public high school kids. He had me with a straight and narrow Catholic, faithful Catholic in college. I was in college too, but not faithful.

[00:13:07] Jim Jansen: That's awesome. Did you have to cut your hair beforehand or was it? 

[00:13:10] Dave Nodar: No, it was still, still down over the shoulders. 

[00:13:13] Jim Jansen: That's awesome. I can totally picture it. 

[00:13:14] Dave Nodar: It's frightening. At the end of that school year, the kids were saying, why do we, why are our parents making us go when we're only talking about the same stuff we hear in public school, which was the Vietnam war and the whole issue of birth control.
We're just hearing the same stuff, the ethical stuff. Why aren't we hearing more? And I'm thinking this is total grace. This is before my conviction. I'm thinking they need to hear about the founder of the faith. So, when I have this conversion in March of 71, I want to tell everybody. 

[00:13:52] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:13:53] Dave Nodar: And so, what did I, what did I need?
And this goes to every buddy listening, who's involved with discipleship in their parishes or ministries, I was looking for a container. I didn't know this. It wasn't like a conscious thing. I needed a wine skin. So, I, I, this is looking back. I wasn't thinking that way. Yeah. 

[00:14:11] Jim Jansen: Now you have words on what you were just intuiting then.

[00:14:15] Dave Nodar: That's exactly right. So, here's the thing. I think, okay, the New Testament just radicalized me. I realized Jesus came for sinners like me. So, I'll, I'll have a Bible study. I didn't know anything about leading a Bible study, but the idea was I can get friends together. We can decide to study some book. And the main thing is I want to tell them what the Lord has done for me and that he can do it for you.
And so, it started in my bedroom at my parents’ home, grew out of that into our family room, grew into the, our parish convent. And then into the, by that summer into the church hall with hundreds of young adults and older people, including Catholic. Priests, Protestant pastors, they're all coming and they're saying, this is incredible.
What's going on here? And it was all focused on telling others about the love of God in Jesus Christ. It was the container. And if we think about that, even now, What are the means within our parishes of having containers, structures, in an ongoing way that are a place where both people in the church, outside of the church, anyone, everyone can come where we want them to learn about the meaning of life found in Christ and then to become his missionary disciples?

[00:15:42] Jim Jansen: Yes. Oh, gosh. Yeah. I mean, we're speaking the same language, like two things about your story. Just jump out. You know, we've, we talk a lot here about kind of the thresholds of conversion and discipleship and this process. And oftentimes people are like, yeah, okay, I get that. And then there's this epiphany moment when they're like, so let's talk about your experience teaching catechism, teaching the faith to junior high and high school kids.
And they're like, Oh man, you know, it was like, cause same thing. Like, you know, it doesn't, they don't want it. They're not interested. You're having to kind of bribe them, use the, you know, sacraments confirmation as a carrot, and then they start to apply this. We're like, wait, so people who have had a life changing encounter with the Lord want to know about him.
But until you have, I mean, I, I give this example all the time. Uh, you know, my wife, uh, was a competitive jump roper in junior high. I didn't even know there was a, that was a thing. I certainly was not a fan of competitive jump roping, but when I fell in love with her, when I met her, when I encountered her, I fell in love.
All of a sudden, I was interested in competitive jump roping, but I'm like, tell me all about it. And I think it's a similar thing. It's like, we're trying to tell people all the stuff about a person and a family of which they don't yet have any interest yet. 

[00:17:08] Dave Nodar: No, that's right. That's right. So, you, you know, that, that part is where you got to start somewhere where you're provoking curiosity.

[00:17:19] Jim Jansen: Yes. 

[00:17:19] Dave Nodar: You know that you're helping people, whether they're checking the boxes in mass, that's all they're doing is checking the boxes. They know they're supposed to go, or you've got somebody who's unbaptized. There's got to be a way of starting the process in a general way that provokes curiosity, that makes it relevant to, Oh, this might be worth paying attention to.

[00:17:43] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, Dave, I want to give you the chance to connect. your story and these experiences with your work now with Christ Life, because you're leading, I want to call Christ Life, I mean, a ministry, a movement, it's so much more than a program, but you all provide tools to support parishes in creating these containers, these contexts, where people can encounter Christ, grow as a disciple, and then even be equipped to share him as a missionary disciple.
Tell us a little bit about Christ's life and how it, you know, how it benefits a parish. 

[00:18:22] Dave Nodar: The foundation of what we do and why we do it came from the magisterial teaching. I mean, from evangelization on the modern world all the way back in 75. 

[00:18:33] Jim Jansen: Right. Pope Paul VI. 

[00:18:34] Dave Nodar: Pope Paul VI is saying, Hey, look, folks, what we came out of with Vatican two was realizing we've got to go back to our essential mission of evangelization.

[00:18:46] Jim Jansen: Yes. 

[00:18:46] Dave Nodar: Given the current situation of what we've experienced thus far in the 20th century with two world wars, with communism growing, atheism growing. We've got to be able to be on mission and evangelization, meaning that evangelization through the person of Jesus Christ as Lord has got to be the heart and soul of what we're doing.

[00:19:10] Jim Jansen: I love that you started there. I mean, you're like 1975, Pope Paul VI, and that document, Evangelization in the Modern World, still seems as relevant. As like radical as challenging then as it does today. And it's 2024 if anybody's listening to this, you know, like 49 years ago, a decade or so from now, I mean, it's like, yeah, almost 50 years ago.
And yet still, we're only now starting to like, Oh, wait a minute. Maybe if we talk about. Jesus and the founder a little bit more all that other beautiful precious wonderful stuff Maybe those things will come along but we've been put we've been putting the cart before the horse. 

[00:19:55] Dave Nodar: Well said that's exactly listen to this We wish to confirm once more that the task of evangelizing all people constitutes the essential mission of the catholic church Evangelizing is in fact the grace and vocation proper to the church her deepest identity and he goes on to say evangelizing has it can Never be evangelization Unless the heart of it is the person of Jesus Christ.

[00:20:19] Jim Jansen: Yes. 

[00:20:19] Dave Nodar: So, and we're, we've been reluctant over the years, I can tell you, all this sounds very Protestant talking about Jesus. 

[00:20:26] Jim Jansen: Right. Like, like a letter from the Pope to the Universal Church isn't enough, but you're right. No, I, you hear that all the time. 

[00:20:33] Dave Nodar: Yes. All in, in, in the magisterium has been since Vatican II constantly saying, it's all about.
The Lord Jesus, it's got to be bringing people to him. He's the only one. His good news is what changes things. So, what I came to after a number of years was realizing, particularly through Pope St. John Paul, his call that we can make this a new springtime of evangelization, which I still think is true, despite what's going on.

[00:21:02] Jim Jansen: Absolutely. Yes. 

[00:21:04] Dave Nodar: If we give ourselves wholeheartedly, not only to mission, but to holiness, if we do that, he can use us. And so, I, I felt as someone who had been involved in a renewal movement for 20 years. I felt the Lord and the church calling me, summoning me to make a contribution to evangelization within the church, particularly within parishes and other ministries.
And I had enough experience evangelizing to know you need to have three parts. 

[00:21:36] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Yeah. Say more about that. 

[00:21:37] Dave Nodar: Yeah. So, understanding that you need to be able to have what's called the Kerygma, the basic gospel, the life, death, and resurrection of the Lord. proclaimed in a way that releases power that's beyond us to do and allows people to make a personal response to the gospel.
And that's the part oftentimes we as Catholics wimp out. We, we don't want to say we're going to have an opportunity to make a response. Jesus is Lord of my life. I can't get over the number of times where I hear bring them right up to water and not let them drink. 

[00:22:18] Jim Jansen: Yes. Well, you know, and I, I mean, you're absolutely right, but I can be very empathetic for people.
I mean, you know, sad to say. Uh, my, I had a business card that said missionary on it for several years before I really came to the point where I, uh, I would say I realized early on, but I was actually willing to ask the golden question. So, I've talked about Jesus. I've, uh, you know, I, I've stated clearly what he offers.
He's done it for me. He could do it for you. And then I finally got to the point. Where I was able to say, so do you want to let him in? And my goodness, that simple, you know, people can phrase it a variety of different ways. But they're like, is Jesus Lord? Do you want him to be that released so much grace and I go back like it was the magisterial documents of the church that convicted me and honestly, it was the story of other missionaries who had, I mean, they had better stories than I did and I was just jealous and I kind of reluctantly came to a point where I began to not only proclaim the gospel, but then invite people to make a decision to entrust themselves to the Lord.
And. it became a beautiful, explosive release of grace and a turning point in my ministry. Because sad to say, I was embarrassed to actually call people to make a decision. 

[00:23:49] Dave Nodar: Yeah. It's, it's, it's a challenge for us to get over as Catholics, for some Catholics. 

[00:23:53] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Which is crazy because every single Sunday, every single time we go to mass, not only do we stand up and proclaim it, but then we walk forward, you know, in Protestant circles, they call it the alt.
An altar call. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we have like the ultimate altar call. We walk forward, we come to the altar, and you say like, I'm giving myself to you. You're giving yourself to me, body, blood, soul, and divinity, and I do the same. And, and, and when I receive that host, when I'm saying amen, it is a total entrustment of myself to the Lord.
Now, sad, that isn't always what's top of mind, but that is the reality of what is and should be going, going on. So, it's, it's somewhat puzzling sometimes that as Catholics, we resist that when it is, if we had the eyes to see it, it's so a part of who we already are. 

[00:24:44] Dave Nodar: Yeah, and it's true, but here's the problem, Jim.
A lot of times, those things are not taught again in the homiletics and other situations, kind of cases. This is what you're doing. Do you realize? 

[00:24:58] Jim Jansen: Right. We don't, yeah, we don't recognize, uh, our reception of communion and the amen is an altar call, is a, another surrender, uh, to the Lord. 

[00:25:09] Dave Nodar: That's right. So, we wanted to be able to, if you will, build a container, a process, a relational process, where first we're dealing with discovering Christ, encountering Christ personally.
And then we wanted to be able to go on, because that's just the beginning. You know, he says, come follow me. It's not just surrender and say yes to him. And a lot of times it's like we can be on retreats and have an experiential experience of the Lord, but that's just the beginning of a whole new life.
And for many of us as Catholics, a renewed life that's meant to be lived now. And so, we wanted to be able to deal with a second part on following Christ, which is discipleship based on the characteristics we see in the lives of the saints and the teaching of the church from the scriptures onward. And then to have an opportunity, uh, to talk about what it means to share your faith explicitly in Jesus by having a course on training on evangelizing, sharing Christ.

[00:26:14] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Oh, that's so good. So, let's get, let's get super practical. What does this look like in a parish? I mean, I'm like, what are the locations? How many weeks, you know, the content, all of that. Uh, you, you've, you've talked about it, but what does it give us a picture of what it actually looks like? 

[00:26:30] Dave Nodar: Yeah. Yeah.
So, for those who've been very successful who go at it year after year after year, they think of establishing a process of being and making missionary disciples. And as one parish in the archdiocese of Philadelphia says it's their core curriculum. For making missionary disciples. 

[00:26:51] Jim Jansen: Oh, that's great language.

[00:26:52] Dave Nodar: There's other things that have to be there beyond this, right? But this happens repeatedly every year. Everybody knows that this is going to happen. And then you've got team members, you've got everybody understanding, invite people, et cetera. And we can go break, break into that more. So, the, the, the idea would be.
a pastor and some laity and frequently laity are the ones who say, father, can we do this? Yes. So, it's, it's getting mobilized some men and women of a parish who say this, this could help us to do what we're supposed to be doing as a parish. Uh, and the first thing is get training, and there's a variety of ways you can get training, and we have the website, I think, that'll be listed at the end.

[00:27:41] Jim Jansen: Yeah, we're going to put that in the show notes, because you all offer that, so you don't just offer like, okay, here's the content, here's your videos, but you offer like, here's how you roll this out, here's how you develop this in your parish. 

[00:27:54] Dave Nodar: In fact, we were out your way, Jim, in 2018 when Father Dan Andrews Yes.
He was still a pastor. 

[00:28:00] Jim Jansen: Yes. Well, he's still a pastor now. He's now, but he's now at the Newman Center, so the average age of his congregation just dropped dramatically. Nice. 

[00:28:07] Dave Nodar: Yeah. Very nice. Anyhow, uh, the training is really critical. As one said, some guy said, you know, who's involved with a number of other Catholic evangelization ministries said, you guys have the best training.
And what we realized is the whole idea of making missionary disciples is foreign to us. It's such a different paradigm, world view than what we're used to. So, we want to be able to help some team members get it, what we're after, what's going to happen if you incarnate this in your parish, so going to training.
Getting a team, understanding it can't be just one team for burnout over years. You're seeing people regularly from those, uh, who've, who've gone through it, you know, people in the leadership, the core leadership are discerning people that they can bring on board to continue it. So, and, and there's lots of other things in terms of the promotion from the front, the pastor being behind it.
All of those things are critical. So, seven weeks for discovering Christ. And I can talk about content if you want, Jim. 

[00:29:13] Jim Jansen: Sure. A little bit. That's like discovering Christ. That's the core message of the gospel, right? 

[00:29:18] Dave Nodar: That's right. So let me say, uh, before I give you the content, we call this a 21-week relational process.
There's three that are seven weeks each. They each have a retreat in them. The relational part is critical because that's part of the DNA of what's supposed to happen in the parish. 

[00:29:41] Jim Jansen: Right. And Seymour, what do you mean about the, what is the relational part? Like, what does that look like? 

[00:29:45] Dave Nodar: Yeah. So, we have in discovering Christ, we have a dinner to start with and we want it to be sort of like A guest party, a dinner party.
Yeah. So, we want anybody who comes to come for free and we want it to be nice. We don't want it to be McDonald's burgers. We want to do a nice dinner that's for free, you know, followed by that group who are in a small group for dinner are also going to be a small group after the teaching. 
So, they're building relationally. So, the dinner is social. You're just talking social stuff. That's important for people potentially who are outside the church, who are nervous, are they going to make me say prayers? 

[00:30:26] Jim Jansen: Right, well, again, imagine, I love the dinner party metaphor. Imagine if like, you know, you get invited to this person's house for dinner and you show up and all of a sudden, everybody starts talking a foreign language.
Yes. And they start doing these things that you're like, I don't know what that means. Well, I mean, that's what we unintentionally as Catholics, because we have such a deep, rich history, language, culture. We, we, we unintentionally start to do that, and we make people feel weird. And they don't want to come back.

[00:30:57] Dave Nodar: Fr. Eric Arnold, who does the teaching on all three courses with me, there's other people in the second courses that do it with us, but Fr. Eric says, Presume nothing. And he's talking about when he's at Mass. Yeah. Presume nothing. And so, we use that mantra in Christ's life. You don't know who's showing up.
You don't know their background and what's going on. Listen to this, Jim. I just found out yesterday in a Discovering Christ course in another state. This is incredible. Some lady was weaseled to go by a friend to come to Discovering Christ. Was not into it. Weasel's a theological term. Right. 

[00:31:36] Jim Jansen: I just laugh because all the best evangelizations start with like, so my friend tricked me into coming.

[00:31:41] Dave Nodar: Exactly. Exactly. So, this woman comes. Wow. She was physically assaulted several years ago, has been traumatized ever since she comes and hears the first talk and discovering Christ, which is the meaning of life. And it's trying to provoke curiosity, get people she's encounters the first night she encounters the Lord's peace come upon her.
She says, I've been going for counseling for eight years. I come and listen to this one talk. I feel like I'm free. I feel the peace come upon me, you know, so the grace again of the proclamation and the first one is very gentle. You know, it's not in your face. It's, you're going to progressively grow in terms of... 

[00:32:32] Jim Jansen: Right. It's growing over seven weeks. You're meeting people, you're sharing a meal, you're having conversation, and you're slowly unpacking the like, who is Jesus and what does he offer to us? 

[00:32:43] Dave Nodar: That's it. That's it. 

[00:32:44] Jim Jansen: Okay. So, what about the next one? What about following Christ? 

[00:32:47] Dave Nodar: Yeah. So following Christ, again, it's going to move from the place of making a commitment, a response to the Lord, to what are practical disciplines the Lord and the church teach us are necessary for having a lifestyle of a disciple.
So personal prayer, reading scripture as God's word, the importance of the sacraments, especially Eucharist and reconciliation, forgiving one another. I just did it. live at a church about an hour away. And the things that happen when you talk about, forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those, and how many people have stuff that's really a problem to union with God.
So, uh, forgiving one another, the spirit and powered life, how the Lord sanctifies, but also makes us missionaries. And then a retreat on Three essentials traditionally of the church, the world, the flesh and the devil as enemies of the Christian and how Christ equips us to deal with them. 

[00:33:50] Jim Jansen: Well, and then I'm curious.
So, you set people up then for this third seven-week series, sharing Christ. 

[00:33:57] Dave Nodar: Yeah. So, then we want to first establish that we're called to share Christ. by the church that the church insists on. We're not only supposed to be holy, the witness. 

[00:34:07] Jim Jansen: Yes. 

[00:34:08] Dave Nodar: But we're to share Christ with others. 

[00:34:10] Jim Jansen: Right. This is your, this is your job.
That's right. If you're baptized. 

[00:34:14] Dave Nodar: If you're baptized, no, no exceptions. It's not just for missionary orders. This is for all of us. That means all the diocesan clergy and the laity, all of us are called to be missionaries. So, we talk about befriending others, the reality of importance of relationship where it's possible, build relationships as a key part of evangelizing, learning to share your story.
I don't have any story. No, all of us have stories to share. 

[00:34:44] Jim Jansen: Well, and somebody needs your story, you know, I love, cause some people are like, well, I never did hard drugs or hard time. So, I don't have a story. It was like, yeah, but there are a whole lot of people who also have not done hard drugs or hard time who need Jesus.
And the way he came to you may be just the thing that helps them recognize that he's knocking on their door. 

[00:35:07] Dave Nodar: All kinds of different graces flowing through different people, that's essential. So, sharing your story, the power to share Christ, that this is not up to you. Jesus gave us the power of his Holy Spirit to be witnesses.
He wants us to engage, uh, presenting the good news. What does it look like? Oh my goodness. I'm on a plane and the person we're engaging and it's time to actually present the good news. How do I do that in a very simple way? So, laying that out and then, uh, inviting others. What if the person comes to a point and they're saying, I want what you.
have. How do I do it? So, leading a person in a prayer of commitment, as well as helping connect them with the church. 

[00:35:49] Jim Jansen: That's so, that's so good, Dave. So, here's one, I want to make a pivot, because I'm sure there's some people are like, where, sign me up and like, okay, hang on. Well, you know, the, we've got the, well, we've got the link.
to the website. Of course, you can always call me, I'll help you connect. But I want to pivot, because you already kind of hinted at this, but sometimes there's this phenomenon where a parish sets out to do some evangelization efforts, it starts strong for a while, and then it just starts to fade away. And it's so demoralizing, it's so confusing and frustrating, and it makes Many parish leaders say like, all right, I don't believe this is possible.
All right. Yeah. And so, you just kind of run back to like, we're just going to keep doing the same old stuff. If you can just kind of break down, what are some of those pitfalls and, and how do people avoid that? 

[00:36:41] Dave Nodar: Well, it's a reality that happens and we've seen it happen. I'll say a couple different things.
One is that the diocesan level of the bishop and those in the chancery responsible for the parishes have a clear vision that yes, this is what the Lord Jesus has commanded us to do. This is what the magisterium has been teaching since Vatican II, that we must re engage not just for our own salvation, but for the salvation of other souls and for our culture.
Take a look around us right now. 

[00:37:17] Jim Jansen: Well, and we are our brother's keeper. 

[00:37:20] Dave Nodar: That's right. Yes. 

[00:37:21] Jim Jansen: And so, at a certain level, I don't want to overstate this, but when we look at the, the disintegration of our culture, I have to say like, gosh, at some level, I'm, I'm responsible for that. Doesn't mean I caused it, but the Lord came for the world, and he commissioned us for the world.
So, when our neighbors are confused and living these like quiet lives of desperation, we're the solution. 

[00:37:50] Dave Nodar: Jesus said, as the Father has sent me, so I'm sending you. That's to, to you and me. That's to the church. 

[00:37:58] Jim Jansen: Yeah. He's sending Dave and Jim and Lisa and Tom and yeah... 

[00:38:01] Dave Nodar: Every one of us. And so really for, for all of us who are listening, God, help me.
Get down on my knees and say, I want to be available anytime and anywhere. I'm chicken hearted. I'm sweating profusely. When I have these opportunities, these people are risk of hell. They're, they're leaving living lives that are so meaningless and they don't know better. 

[00:38:29] Jim Jansen: Yeah. I had a friend once who. said like, you know, I get it.
Sometimes it's awkward to try and share your faith with people. But if you remember that eternity is at stake, eternity is worth the awkwardness. That's right. I mean, there's nothing more awkward than, you know, finding yourself in heaven, you know, uh, enjoying the beatific vision, uh, and then having this moment, you know, looking across, you know, like, like Lazarus gets to and seeing, seeing your neighbor And your cousin and your coworker and you're like, Oh, I probably should have said something.

[00:39:06] Dave Nodar: Yes. Yeah. Which also is another part of building the process for longevity is intercession. It's not going to work just based on our own strengths and smarts. There's got to be an underlying foundation of intercession. And we stress, you've got to have intercession. You may have Marian people, charismatic prayer groups, all kinds of things that happen, adoration people... 

[00:39:32] Jim Jansen: Get them all going. 

[00:39:33] Dave Nodar: Get them all going. Get it all going. And this, this has to be an essential part of what we do as Catholics is interceding. 

[00:39:41] Jim Jansen: I dream of like a, you know, a pastor with like, kind of like a text thread, you know, who he's got, he's kind of like his emergency responders, prayer warriors of every ilk. Some that just want to sit in front of the blessed sacrament.
Some that are running to Mary, some that are charismatic and they're like, all right. Home balance. Yeah, the homebound. Yes. Yes. And just like, okay, you know, like high alert. We, you know, like we've got an opportunity now where we're going to be sharing a message of hope with those who need it. Pray for us, pray for them.

[00:40:12] Dave Nodar: At the level of the pastor and the diocese, understanding this really is essential and it's going to take time. It's not a flash in the pan and we'll get it together in a year and everything's fine, honky dory, okay, now we'll go on and do something else. It can't be that way. So, I know from working with many dioceses, that's number one.

[00:40:34] Jim Jansen: Yeah, it's got to be a priority and you got to be patient because it's, this is a long-haul transformation. even if it happens a little bit at a time. 

[00:40:43] Dave Nodar: And second on that same point, the pastors have to get it and be committed to it. So, when there's reassignments, is the next pastor coming in, is he in sync with what's been going on at that parish and understanding this is, this is beginning to bear fruit or is he going to say, nah, we're not going to do anything.
Um, you know, we're just going to, have mass and adoration or whatever. And then that, that missionary part drops out or they become programmatic. Well, we tried that. Now let's try this. Now we'll do this. And they're not thinking of establishing some kind of ongoing process. 

[00:41:24] Jim Jansen: Right. Well, that, that core curriculum that you talked about.
That's it. Yes. It here. I mean, I love the core curriculum metaphor for here. You know, we've called it a clear path of discipleship. Like how Do you make disciples? How do you help people connect? How do you introduce them to Jesus? How do you help them mature? Yes. And then how do you equip them as missionaries in their ordinary lives?
That's right. And Christ's life is like you're, you're creating a context or a container for a lot of those key moments of people's faith journey to happen. And they're all connected. 

[00:42:00] Dave Nodar: It's beautiful. It's a jump start because there have to be small groups and other ways of continuing on in discipleship.
But here's the thing, Jim. We look at it, and this goes back to the reason we insist on training, whether it be diocesan or coming out to our national conferences and so on. The leadership have to become disciples themselves. So, we don't start with presuming, oh, we're all missionary disciples who are leading this process.
So, as you're doing it as a core curriculum regularly, annually, you're working together with how am I doing with personal prayer. 

[00:42:39] Jim Jansen: David, I want to invite you to say a little bit more about that because that, you know, that has the potential to be an uncomfortable conversation. You know, and I can imagine people getting sensitive or maybe a little defensive.
We go, what are you saying? You know, I'm an, I'm an ordained member of the clergy, or I've been working at this parish for 20 years. How do you help people draw together with each other and closer to the Lord when They've been in and working for the church for some time. How do you start that conversation?

[00:43:13] Dave Nodar: The best way, obviously, is a personal awareness that I need others. And that means among our clergy, because a lot of our clergy are isolated. Certainly, back east here in Baltimore, the whole east coast, upper east coast, mid-Atlantic and up. These poor brothers who are clergy oftentimes are isolated. They have all this busy schedule.
Then they go home to no one. And guess what? There's someone who's waiting for them. 

[00:43:43] Jim Jansen: You mean the enemy is waiting for them. They're tired. They spent themselves maybe a little discouragement throughout their day. 

[00:43:52] Dave Nodar: So how much do they need? To be with some other brothers. I've been in a men's group for 20 years.
I've been in every type of small group you can imagine. And I go to confession. But I also confess my sins to these guys. I want them to know the real Nodar. I want them to know what's going on and vice versa. And so, I know that all of us clergy, religious laity, we all need some ones in some kind of context.
If I want to grow in holiness. Fellowship is part of it. You look at First John, the first chapter, you know, fellowship with God and with one another. 

[00:44:30] Jim Jansen: Yeah, and Acts of the Apostles, right? They devoted themselves, Acts 2. 42, to the teaching of the Apostles, to the prayers. To the breaking of the bread and to the fellowship.
It's like, it's like, holy cow. That's like one of the four pillars of what seems to establish the church of acts. 

[00:44:49] Dave Nodar: And look at the saint, Saint Paul never was traveling alone. He had a band with him, St. Patrick. Everybody thinks of some of the other saints as there are these major guys out by themselves. St.
Patrick had a missionary community with him. St. Catherine of Siena, same thing. Yeah. Jesus. Jesus wasn't alone. Yeah. So, I would just say. The ongoing work of becoming a missionary disciple necessitates finding some brothers or sisters or brothers and sisters who we can share our life within an ongoing way.
And what happens out of Christ life is regularly we see. small groups are spawned, and they don't want to stop. And so, they just continue going. And if the parish has the resources to say, well, here's some really good things that you can continue to use to strengthen being a disciple. 

[00:45:43] Jim Jansen: Yeah. I mean, that's been our experience too.
The difference is, sometimes people want to get small groups started, and it doesn't feel like there's any demand. And when you've gone through the process where people have found this context, or this container, or this ministry, where they have an encounter from the Lord. Then they come to you saying, okay, now, how do we stay together?
And they, they desire formation. They desire to learn more about Jesus. to be equipped to live as a disciple and even to share their faith. 

[00:46:17] Dave Nodar: That's right. That's right. So, there's some basic structure that they've all already experienced by going through the Christ Life course. 
And there's great opportunity for where they're really gifted missionary disciples to help disciple more, but also, they can take other resources and use the same framework that they experienced in following and sharing Christ. We're going to focus on this, we're going to come together and we're going to talk about how am I doing or how can I make this part of my life.
So, there's a basic structure now. By the way, Jim, lots of things that are in the Christ life process, relational process, are intended to be normal DNA of a parish. 

[00:46:58] Jim Jansen: Yeah, say more about that. 

[00:46:59] Dave Nodar: So, for example, we've done interviews outside of Catholic parishes. What is evangelization? And, you know, you can imagine the variety of things that you get in response to that.
But if people go through the Christ Life series, now they can say, I know that it has to do most fundamentally with coming to know Jesus as Lord, that by his death my sins are forgiven, by his rising I'm brought into, you know, and so on. So, language changes. Prayer changes. Not only personal prayer, but prayer together.
I have a friend who's now a bishop. For years he did the Christ Life series. It's still going on in the parish where it used to be. And he said it was such a thrill after Mass, rather than everybody lining up for him to pray with people for their needs, to look around after Mass and see all these people praying for one another.
All of a sudden, laity are mobilized. So, uh, things like that, the language, the prayer dynamics, the fact that lay leaders are actually growing in their own gifting. 
So, the father's not being, having to do everything. There's others, you know, who have certain giftings that really can do this well. So just a few examples.

[00:48:18] Jim Jansen: Maybe another way of stating it is that the experience of running these connected little mini retreats, right? You know, seven weeks plus a retreat moment, the experience of that, it starts to change the culture of the parish. That the language, There's this unity of language. It's about the person of Christ, people's understanding of what their faith is, their, their willingness to share it with each other.
With all, all of those things start to fall into place. Yeah. In a way that we would've hoped would already have been present. That's right. But if we're honest. It's like, well, it's not. 

[00:48:56] Dave Nodar: Well, take another example. People are in these relational groupings going through the 21 weeks at mass. It's no longer peace be with you without knowing the guy's name that you've been shaking hands with for 20 years.
Now that may not be the case for those who are listening, but I can tell you, I've been in churches. I understand. And all of a sudden, there's a growing population of the parish community who know one another. So, they're heading out in the narthex afterwards, they're doing things together, they're willing to share and do things in service for the church.
It's the community. 

[00:49:34] Jim Jansen: Yeah, they actually know each other and love each other, and they know a little bit about each other's stories and, and they've been on this journey together. Oh yeah. It's so good. Dave, I just want to give you a chance. You've talked a little bit about this, you know, just like how the culture changes.
So, I want to talk maybe just one or two stories about some of the fruits you've seen from parishes who are evangelizing. 

[00:49:56] Dave Nodar: Well, the wonderful thing always is when you see persons. Lives changed, but it's also this cultural change and the cultural change takes years. 

[00:50:09] Jim Jansen: Yes. 

[00:50:09] Dave Nodar: You've got to be in it for the long haul because we've set ourselves in a certain way of thinking and doing church life that God wants to redo.
He just wants a redo. Uh, and he's about it right now. By the way, a lot of what's being torn down in our church institutionally, there's bad reasons for it, but providentially the sovereign Lord is trying to bring it down to the foundation, which is himself. 

[00:50:38] Jim Jansen: Yeah. You know, I, man, I'm so glad you said that.
Cause I see the same thing too. I mean, you can't be a faithful Catholic and not. Lament and be saddened and grieved at the loss of credibility of our institutions at the, just the disappearance of many of our institutions, churches, parishes, schools, uh, some of the service organizations. And yet to know that the Lord loves us and that he's using this.
Yes. He seems to be purifying us of everything that we would cling to, buildings and programs and prestige of our institutions, endowments, funding, all of that, purifying it so that he is all that remains. 

[00:51:24] Dave Nodar: That's right. On the level of persons, I'll mention a couple things. I do want to say, we see the overflow of the Christ life process that's for anyone and everyone in the church and outside the church, baptized and unbaptized.
Now it's starting to be used more and more for RCIA slash OCIA. People are using it for, for the first leg. They realize the church insists in catechesis that conversion has to occur first. So, in a variety of ways, it's now being adopted for OCIA. Another thing is it's starting to flow over into ministry.
So, we've had, uh, works for the poor, uh, little sisters of the poor are using it in some of their homes. We have Catholic charity using it in some of their homes for older folks. Listen to this. At a group in our, uh, Little Sisters of the Poor here in Baltimore, a group of elderly people are listening to the first talk on meaning of life, and one of the ladies is sitting there with tears running down her face at the end and says, 82 years old, I've never even thought about the meaning of my life.

[00:52:37] Jim Jansen: Hmm. 

[00:52:39] Dave Nodar: And then all of a sudden you realize, Oh God in heaven have mercy on us. That's just the reality of how much we need to bring his good news to others. So yeah, it's, it's essential. 

[00:52:53] Jim Jansen: Well, and it, it's working. It's fruitful. Dave, I want to give you a chance here, just some parting words, like, you know, what encouragement or advice would you have?
for those, I would say, particularly, uh, in a parish context or maybe in a specific ministry, could be youth ministry, they just want to start evangelizing again. 

[00:53:13] Dave Nodar: It's something the Lord wants us to do. And in our utter weakness, He is strong to do this. It's an urgent time in the church and outside the church.
And the more we can surrender to Him and draw close to Him in your own personal lives, the hidden life. of telling them, I know what's going on in youth ministry, you know, confirmation, the sacrament of exit, we can't keep going this way, you know, so it's, it really has to do with number one, ourselves.
Surrender to the Lordship of Jesus saying I'm yours. I'm available. I want to do what you want to do and there's such power in the gospel that we don't fully Comprehend or appreciate that he wants to do through every one of us everyone who's listening He has the desire to use all of us. It's a time of transition God's doing new things in the midst of a time of real You Desperation.
He is doing new things. I'm saying personally, I want to be part of the new things you're doing, Lord. 

[00:54:20] Jim Jansen: Amen. Yeah, it's fun. I mean, it really is. It's true. Yes, that, you know, there's, there's a sadness, a deterioration, a shrinking, diminishment, whatever word you want. And yet. The Lord is doing something new and fresh and exciting, and man, I want to be a part of it.

[00:54:42] Dave Nodar: That's it. That's it. 

[00:54:43] Jim Jansen: All right. So, Dave, if people would like to be a part of it, if they'd like to learn more about Christ Life, how can they connect with you? 

[00:54:50] Dave Nodar: Yep. Go to ChristLife, one word, ChristLife. org. Glad to talk with people. As Jim said, you can talk to him or shoot a note on our website. There's info at ChristLife.
org. Glad to try to help respond to anything, uh, questions that you have. 

[00:55:06] Jim Jansen: Yeah, Dave, thank you. Thank you for, uh, just the conversation today and just, yeah, for your, your heart, your passion and, uh, your labor for the gospel. 

[00:55:15] Dave Nodar: My pleasure. Jim is it's. What a pleasure. Can you imagine getting us getting to do this full time?

[00:55:20] Jim Jansen: Yes, it is a real gift. It is a gift. It is a gift. Alright everybody, you know somebody who needs to hear this conversation, so please be safe. Wait till you get, don't try and share it while you're driving. Wait till you get to your destination. Maybe like, you know, put the, put like the leash around your arm so the dog doesn't run away, but share this out.
Let the Lord, uh, just take a moment. Let the Lord put on your mind and heart, uh, someone who needs to hear this conversation and then, uh, share it out with them today. Thanks everybody. Thanks for listening to the EquipCast. We hope this episode has inspired you to live your faith and equip you to be fruitful in your mission.
Stay connected with us by going to equip.archomaha.org. God bless, and see you next time.