Susan Skjei "Authentic Leadership Center" [MUSIC] Hello. And welcome to Mindful U at Naropa. A podcast presented by Naropa University in Boulder, Colorado. I'm your host David Devine. And it's a pleasure to welcome you. Joining the best of Eastern and Western educational traditions -- Naropa is the birthplace of the modern mindfulness movement. [MUSIC] Hello. Today, I'd like to welcome Susan Skjei to the podcast. Susan is the Director of Authentic Leadership Center also known as ALC here at Naropa University. So, thank you for joining us today. [00:00:56.04] Susan Skjei: Certainly David. I am happy to be having this conversation with you. [00:01:00.07] DAVID: So, is there anything else you'd like to highlight about yourself? I know that you got a lot going and you're just a very interesting person. So - I am just kind of curious -- [00:01:07.15] Susan Skjei: Oh, thank you for that. Oh gosh, I mean maybe a good thing to say to our listeners is just that I have been involved with Naropa since it started in one way or another I was a student at the very beginning and I later became a faculty member in a variety of programs mostly I focus on leadership, organizational development, conflict resolution. All the stuff that has to do with the people skills. And, so that you know many different programs have needed that over the years, but I've also at the same time held full time roles in organizational development, leadership development in large corporations and then I worked for Hewett Packard for many years and then I was a Chief Learning Officer and Vice President at Storage Technology. So, I've done all of that in parallel with my work at Naropa. And so, itÕs been fun to kind of go back and forth. [00:02:00.15] DAVID: Very cool. You've had a lot of leadership training and now you're training leaders. [00:02:04.21] Susan Skjei: Well, yes. Yes. [00:02:06.13] DAVID: Very cool. [00:02:08.02] Susan Skjei: It feels good to give back and also, I constantly learn so it - you know itÕs never ending. [00:02:14.06] DAVID: Thanks for sharing. So, you run a program called the Authentic Leadership Center here at Naropa. Also known as the ALC -- like I just said. And I'm curious what is that? What kind of work do you do? How do you do this work? How do you show it to people? Can you just kind of like let us know what it does? [00:02:32.18] Susan Skjei: Oh sure. So, the Authentic Leadership program began in -- 2001. And it was just a little weekend program and then it evolved to become a full semester program. 16 weeks online with two 5 day onsite sessions. And, I'll talk more about that. So that's our flagship program. But now, I'm running the Authentic Leadership Center which contains that program but many other programs. So, in addition to that flagship program which we run in the spring and also in a 10 week version in the summer because our summer semesters are shorter - we also provide many two day programs which we call Foundations of Authentic Leadership and those are done in many different locations. We do an online program called Mindful at Work. And we do custom programs. So, one example of that is a program we're doing right now for the Jamaican government -- [00:03:31.04] DAVID: What? [00:03:32.05] Susan Skjei: Yeah - isn't that wild? [00:03:33.04] DAVID: Wow! [00:03:33.17] Susan Skjei: I know. And itÕs so exciting. So those kind of custom programs - mostly come from our graduates of the flagship program. Because they get all excited about it and they say hey I want to bring this back into my organization. So, we did also another program -- one example is Rodale Press when they were going through selling their company and they wanted to find a way to help their employees as they were navigating through that change. So, they brought the online Mindful at Work course into their workplace. And that was great. Because it really did help support them through that change. [00:04:09.02] DAVID: Ah, that is so beautiful. [00:04:09.13] Susan Skjei: And, I'll just mention one other which is uh we're working with Naturally Boulder right now. Which is an association of natural products companies - and we're developing a customized authentic leadership program for - we call it Authentic Leadership for Naturals. But for the natural product service industry. [00:04:27.15] DAVID: Very cool. How often does that happen where somebody takes the program - they're coming in as maybe their work is paying for it - or they are paying for it themselves because they want to advance in their career path and then they are like wow this is really potent, and I'd like to bring it to my office. It seems like that might happen every now and again. [00:04:45.23] Susan Skjei: Yeah, it does happen a lot. And sometimes we offer a variety of things. We can offer just coaching to support them in how they bring it in. Or if they want help bringing it in then we can offer some of our faculty members to help them with that. Another company we've worked with Organic India, which is a tea company. They grow their tea in India, but they operate internationally. And so, they are here in Boulder. And we did some internal programs for them and you know now we continue to work with their training manager and some of the other people in their organization. So, I think you know it just evolves naturally. Most of the participants in our courses are adult learners. So, they're from the community, but we also have some Naropa graduates students who are part of our programs and that's always a wonderful mix. Both sides benefit from that quite a bit. [00:05:38.06] DAVID: Yeah, the Naropa graduates are like wow, I just can't get enough of Naropa. I want some of this authentic leadership training and - they just kind of go for it. [00:05:46.00] Susan Skjei: Well, it helps them with the kind of practical application of their program. We have a lot of people from the MDiv program. We've had people from previously known as the Environmental Leadership Program. They would also take part in our program. And I think itÕs a nice supplement to the kind of training that Naropa students get to be able to take it more out into the world. [00:06:06.13] DAVID: Very cool. And just so everyone knows - the MDiv program is the Masters of Divinity here at Naropa. So, itÕs kind of interesting to see what I am hearing is I am hearing there is a personal aspect to it. A personal growth - a developing within that. And then there is also - you can conform it to a company growth as well. And there is an application for being authentic and being a leader all the time whether you are just an individual growing or a company growing. [00:06:34.04] Susan Skjei: Yes. I think that is really important. Part of the niche that we are in and that we provide which is really special is helping people who are already in leadership roles bring more who they are to their role. Sometimes, especially in mid career we get a little stale. And itÕs nice to refresh -- not by learning yet another skill - although we do teach skills. But, by getting in touch deeply with what matters to us with our core purpose, with our values, and with why we're doing what we are doing. So, in the authentic leadership program we emphasize three different competencies. So, the first competency would be called presence. And that has to do with just bringing yourself fully to this moment. And as we know there are many things that get into the way of that. Part of it is we are distracted. Part of it is maybe we have some emotional stuff happening. Some if it may be that just physically we don't feel you know like we are actually there. And so, we try to bring together the head, heart and hands - and that's actually uh one of the definitions of authenticity that way that we describe is that synchronization of body, speech and mind. And then the second competency is how we engage with other people. Very, very important. ItÕs one thing for me to be authentic and to bring myself fully, but how am I with you. And how am I going to include you, invite you, and work with you skillfully especially if I am a leader. And this is where we get into understanding again emotional intelligence - but also recognizing some of our inherent biases that perhaps we bring into a situation - maybe itÕs a bias of privilege or perhaps a bias of just kind of our upbringing and maybe even some competing commitments about who we think we are and what our inherent story line is about our own success or the success of others. So, we work a lot on that and especially working with differences. And how to create an inclusive community in the midst of your workplace. And then the third competency has to do with how we manage change. Because managers as opposed to leaders - they manage the status quo. So, you can think of -- to manage being from the same root as the word hand. Hands on. So, we - we need managers. But we're talking here about leadership. So, leaders are people who can take us to places that we haven't been before. So, leadership really has to do with leading change. [00:09:17.01] DAVID: Yeah, managers are there to have the guard rails. Leaders are there to invite something that might not have been there before, but something that is productive and essential to the work flow. [00:09:31.15] Susan Skjei: Yes, and also perhaps meeting the future in a new way. And so, it does involve creativity and also engaging people in new ways. Especially groups of people. [00:09:43.07] DAVID: Sounds fun. [00:09:44.03] Susan Skjei: ItÕs really fun. ItÕs so much fun. [00:09:46.18] DAVID: It is. So -- where did this inspiration for this program start? Where did ALC come from? I know that this is something that you started. You've been doing it for a while. How were you inspired to start this? Where did this come from? [00:10:03.05] Susan Skjei: Well, it all started with my study and practice with the founder of Naropa, Chogyam Trungpa. [00:10:09.23] DAVID: Oh, that guy - yeah. [00:10:10.08] Susan Skjei: Yeah that guy. [00:10:10.21] DAVID: We know him. [00:10:11.11] Susan Skjei: Yeah. And, his very deep teaching on what he called authentic presence. And, this was a huge inspiration for many of us because it was one of the unique things about his teaching that he said this authentic presence is available and accessible to you at any moment, but there is so many ways that we cover it over. And so, you could spend a whole lifetime just kind of mining for that. And, I feel like maybe that is what I have been doing is mining for authentic presence my whole life. And when I was at Hewlett Packard and also StorageTek I did have a contemplative practice and I was weaving that into my work, but I didn't feel that it was as invited as it is now. Mindfulness is everywhere, and people are really excited about it - so I am feeling very positive about the integration of mindfulness, authentic leadership and so on. So, just a little bit about the history of the program. It started in 2001. With just a weekend program that I did with some colleagues. And it was uh exciting and people - people loved it and eventually it grew into a full 16 week program. Then that program has kind of spun off more supplementary programs like a 2 day foundations program and also, we do conferences. But, along the way - in uh about 3 years ago we joined together with the ALIA Institute and ALIA stands for Authentic Leadership in Action and this was an institute that uh was developed by a group of people in Halifax, Nova Scotia and I was also part of that founding group. Some of the other founders were Michael Chender uh Susan Spikowski and others and I just wanted to mention their names because it was really intended to be uh - bringing some of what Naropa had to offer in the early days to the East Coast into Nova Scotia in particular - but with a focus on leadership and so we and they did a series of conferences over a 15 year period that took place in Canada and also in Europe. So, we have a strong presence in those places still and also a strong presence of graduates from all of our programs on the west coast. So, we still continue to do those conferences every other year. And, as well as some of our other programs and I just wanted to mention that because our graduates are very important. We have over I think 3000 graduates from that - from those conferences and about 800 from our flagship programs. [00:12:58.15] DAVID: Yeah, itÕs just growing exponentially. [00:13:01.01] Susan Skjei: So, mindfulness was not a term that I was able to use in those days. So, I would just bring it in in different ways. Which had to do with how we work with our attention. How we focus. How we show up. So, there are lots of different ways to talk about authenticity. And also, our brand of authenticity is not just let it all hang out or just be you know be yourself - uh it - itÕs actually be yourself and be honest but be kind. And, be skillful. So, all those things can co-exist. And, that to me is what makes our program unique. ItÕs that we - we take a big view of authenticity that yes, its who you are as your unique self, but itÕs also the skillful ways in which you engage others and their differences. So that we create a better world. [00:13:53.23] DAVID: Yeah, and I really appreciate you saying that because being authentic you can just let it all hang out. You can just do this, do that, but you know there is a level of responsibility. There is a level of being skillful. And what true authenticness means is understanding that other people are working with you. Other people are being as well. And, how can you navigate the space in the best way. ItÕs not just letting it all hang out. Don't bypass it and just be like oh I am just being authentic - whatever itÕs your fault. You know like you have to -- [00:14:26.19] Susan Skjei: Love me or leave me. [00:14:27.02] DAVID: Yeah, you got to show up too. You know like you got to do the tough love [00:14:30.10] Susan Skjei: Well, and one thing we say about authentic leaders is that they grow other authentic leaders. [00:14:36.07] DAVID: Oh! Ok. [00:14:37.04] Susan Skjei: And so, there is kind of an ethical component in that we're trying to cultivate everyone getting in touch with who they actually are. And, our approach to it is based on a deep belief and basic goodness. So, if people get to the core of who they actually are that goes beyond their defensiveness, beyond their protection, self-protection, beyond their - what sometimes we would call ego defensiveness. To something that is much more productive and much more generative. So, that's what we're trying to cultivate is leaders who can operate from a place of mindfulness, compassion and big picture view. [00:15:12.19] DAVID: Being an example. [00:15:13.22] Susan Skjei: Being an example, yes, modeling it. [00:15:17.02] DAVID: So, that kind of almost leads me into my next question - how do you define being authentic? We had a little conversation beforehand and I was talking about like the word leadership - that's a big word. It holds a lot of weight, but when you put authentic in front of it - itÕs like whoa - it just transforms, and I am curious how do you define - how do you see being an authentic leader? [00:15:40.08] Susan Skjei: Thanks David. That's really a good way of uh kind of pointing out the paradox. And that's why I like the title authentic leadership is because it modifies leadership which we often think of it as you know some definitions of leadership are the person who goes first. Or you know one who is above others. So, we're one who shows others the way. And, maybe all of those could be true. We certainly want our authentic leader to go first in terms of vulnerability and telling the truth and so on. But, authenticity starts with who we are ourselves. And, that's why the alignment of you know how we're thinking, how we're feeling in our body - is the basis. And so, we train for that. Because our whole training in our lives is often to split those things. So, we need to bring ourselves back together and then we synchronize also with our environment and that means having our sense perceptions open, being open to different kinds of people, different perspectives. So, we have an open mind, an open heart and sometimes itÕs called an open will or an open willingness -- [00:16:49.04] DAVID: I've never heard that. [00:16:49.04] Susan Skjei: Yeah and a willingness to engage in shaping the future. [00:16:55.00] DAVID: Shaping the future. Very cool. So, seems as though you have a lot of graduates. You've been doing this work for a long time. I am kind of curious when you program to different people - how has that transformed their life and or their work life? And I am sure you've seen people walk into your program. They're like oh and like we'll see if you can do something. And they feel a little hesitant about it and then maybe afterwards they are just like oh wow I see what you are doing here. Is there - do you see that amongst a group of people. Does it happen individually? [00:17:33.22] Susan Skjei: Right, yes it does happen in both ways. We do a lot of work on building community so people are going through the program as a cohort which means they are helping one another. So, they first do two weeks online where they get to know each other and then they come for 5 days which is a very intensive situation and, in that time, - we're all in it together. We're all building community. We're all testing ourselves and our own genuineness- not just testing, but trying to access that and then we're also kind of in a sense rubbing up against each other to kind of test and see where is that another person and how are they and how do we want to be together? So, itÕs a lab. And I love that about it. Uh - because -- [00:18:16.23] DAVID: I like the way you label that. It like kind of opens up my brain a little bit more of how I see it. [00:18:21.10] Susan Skjei: Great. Yes, there is teaching uh you know we teach kind of the authentic leadership model that I just described of - authentic presence, engagement and wise action, but we also do a lot of skill building on different tools that you can use - itÕs almost like if we notice how we are when we're being our best and maybe being with a loved one or someone that we feel very open with - we want to be able to do that in all aspects of our lives. And so, that's what we're training for is to be able to be that confident and that loving and that engaged in every aspect of our lives. So, we're actively training. ItÕs almost like being in a dojo for leaders. And, that is demanding but also very exciting because itÕs happening real time. [00:19:09.08] DAVID: It sounds like you are asking to be vulnerable all the time and to become comfortable in your vulnerability that there is a moment where you're not being vulnerable. ItÕs just how you show up, and how you are - itÕs part of your being. And so, you change your definition of what is vulnerability and how it relates to you. [00:19:33.12] Susan Skjei: Well often as leaders I think we assume we shouldn't be vulnerable and that we should know all the answers. So authentic leadership is kind of a paradox in the sense that actually people want to follow someone that they believe has their best interest at heart and also is emotionally intelligent. And wise enough to - to be able to - know right from wrong and to be able to lead a group and so that's what we're trying to train is kind of ethical dimension but also the group dynamic dimension so that people trust. We just finished a week - just last week - the second week of our on sight session for the spring group and the whole focus for the week was trust. How do you bring trust - how do you start with yourself and develop self trust and then you know that takes some work because we all have competing commitments? You know I want to - get a master's degree, but at the same time I really need to make money for work you know so that's just kind an external competing commitment. But we have internal competing commitments. I want to - be valued by my family and yet my family of origin does not appreciate the kind of things that I wanted to do in the world so that's a competing commitment. So just getting all of those things in our consciousness and then making choices is a good first step. And then that self trust translates into how we work with others and especially as leaders to be able to have different kinds of conversations like a conversation about expectations. Sometimes we don't feel that we should talk about that - maybe we don't want to impose our view on another person. But if we don't get clear on that - then there is a lot of room for confusion. Once we have that conversation in place then we can have a conversation about commitments - like well you know what do you want to do in relation to this issue or this problem and we can talk about it and create a plan. And then if commitments get broken we can repair. But if we don't have those conversations in advance then we're kind of just - guessing and we're wondering why is the other person not fulfilling my expectations when I never really told them, but I was kind of assuming that they knew. [00:21:51.09] DAVID: Yeah, developing foundations is what I am hearing. And then -- working from there because if you don't have a strong foundation then if something like jostles you just a bit then it breaks down. It just breaks down in front of them and then all the sudden you're just this person that you're not normally whatever -- [00:22:06.21] Susan Skjei: One of the principles is that we don't assume that we have a shared reality. And so, even though I think we all walk around as if we have a shared reality - itÕs really not true. [00:22:18.09] DAVID: You're not in my head. [00:22:19.17] Susan Skjei: Yeah, exactly. [00:22:19.17] DAVID: You're not thinking what I am thinking. Weird! [00:22:22.09] Susan Skjei: I know. So, uh we make that very explicit and then that just means that conversation becomes even more important. [00:22:30.19] DAVID: Yeah. That is so good. And what I am hearing. I almost want to dive into this too - so there is this work of self - and it seems like the solid foundation starts with the self but then you also bring it to the group so there is a foundation of self. There is a foundation of group and so having a strong foundation of self and knowing who you are and being vulnerable uh Trungpa used to talk about the open heart of the warrior. So open heart warrior - itÕs kind of like authentic leadership - you know what I mean. And I am hearing this to be someone who is very potent in the community and to oneself you have to be open you know you got to be willing to go places. And be the warrior but like itÕs not about fighting all the time - itÕs about being honest with yourself and honest with the group of people. [00:23:18.11] Susan Skjei: Yeah, well I love that juxtaposition of the open heart, which is really the basis of compassion. You have to have self-compassion first and then we can extend that out. But warriorship is really about courage. And - and so that juxtaposition of uh gentleness and bravery open heartedness and action - is really what we try to bring about with authentic leadership. Its - yes, itÕs based on contemplative practice, but itÕs very action oriented. And we're not afraid of power. We - that's one of the things we're cultivating is the right use of power and how we that in a variety of situations. [00:23:57.19] DAVID: So, earlier you said you are working with Jamaica, which just sounds fun! [00:24:04.04] Susan Skjei: Yeah, it does sound fun and itÕs also great because itÕs a lot of work. ItÕs a different culture. [00:24:09.21] DAVID: Totally. It always seems like you've been doing a lot of work. So, is there any other places that you travel this program to? Like actually go on site to or is it - do you do like online stuff or -- [00:24:21.02] Susan Skjei: Well, so the authentic leadership program - the flagship program is a blended program of you know online and on site. I didn't really talk about the online portion but supporting the participants journey all the way along each week we have new readings and you - [00:24:39.18] DAVID: The modules -- [00:24:39.18] Susan Skjei: Discussion questions and - and so on - in all of our programs we try to have a blended approach so that there is some high touch uh thing that people can engage with. So, in - in authentic leadership we have coaching for each person. They each get 5 individual coaching sessions and then in the mindful at work we have group coaching calls where people can ask questions about mindfulness at work and how they are applying it and so on. I am trying to answer kind of the questions generally about all the different programs - but maybe I could focus a little more on the Jamaica program because is unique. So, a participant who came through the 16 week program got excited about this and said we really need this in Jamaica. And the thing that she saw that she felt was needed was - the shift from a kind of external orientation that many people have which is tell me what to do. Tell me what my job is. And I'll do the best I can to fulfill those obligations. And, what she liked about this program is that it redefines all of that and it says what do you want to do. What are you motivated by? Bring yourself to your role. And she said this is what we need is that shift to being more proactive and being more engaged. And so, she was from an institute in Jamaica that provides leadership development and she had the connection with the government and so she helped us get that contract and so itÕs really a program for managers to help them learn coaching skills. So, a lot of what we do in the program is about relationships and coaching and so now we are just extending it a little bit further. And so far, itÕs been fantastic. We're working with 45 very intelligent and amazing people and they just love learning these missing skills. [00:26:36.03] DAVID: Yeah, sometimes being a manager is holding space for people. [00:26:39.10] Susan Skjei: Totally. [00:26:40.01] DAVID: ItÕs not just like this is the work that needs to be done - but it is. [00:26:44.12] Susan Skjei: Well, and they're going through a lot of change and I think any organization that's going through change - really needs the coaching skills to help supplement the change. And so that's what we're trying to offer. [00:26:57.16] DAVID: Awesome. So, I just want to highlight a little bit. The online program - the mindful at work program. [00:27:03.02] Susan Skjei: Oh yeah. So that's a different program - [00:27:05.19] DAVID: You actually offer that to the Naropa community. And, knowing that I was going to do a podcast with you I was like oh what a beautiful moment that I can like step into this role and take the course. So now I am in week number 8 I think. And I have been doing it for a while and all these things you're speaking about I've noticed in my life - and itÕs not even my work life. Its more into my being and my being is part of the work. ItÕs also part of my living situation and its also part of like how I show up in my communities and really interesting how this program can just show you how to be mindful - I just thought it was like really fun just to say that because I've actually been taking your program. I'm not just -- you know -- [00:27:48.16] Susan Skjei: Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah so that program was designed for anyone. For employees and for leaders in organizations that would like to bring mindfulness into those everyday moments. Not just at work but also in life so that's great that you're doing it and you have so much experience being a Naropa grad and also working at Naropa, so you understand the pedagogy of contemplative education. What we're trying to do with this program that's a little bit unique is to say hey let's invite all of this into the workplace in very secular language so that people can use it as a basis for their conversations with their colleagues in skillful ways and also, so they can just practice in those moments that really matter. So, the moments that matter tend to be ones where we're experiencing conflict or where we're experiencing difficulty and so in that 8 week course we go through uh starting with just what is mindfulness? What's the science of it and so that's kind of just to create the rationale. Then we start working the issues. So, we get into presence. How do you show up? How do you bring that into your relationships? How do you bring that into a team? How do you bring that into leadership because even if we're not all in leadership roles we're all leading our own lives? And then finally how you bring that into managing change. Any kind of change in your life. So that's a really great program and itÕs kind of - in a way an introductory program, but itÕs very very accessible in the languages uh I think relevant. We've had as I mention some very conventional organizations that have expressed interest in it and people who have gone through as individuals. Who are from more uh kind of large corporations and also some small start ups. So, itÕs fun. [00:29:38.12] DAVID: Yeah, itÕs very applicable and itÕs also easy to get to because it is online base and so it you don't necessarily have to be near Boulder or travel here. You can just sign online. [00:29:52.06] Susan Skjei: Yeah, people take it from all over the world. [00:29:53.22] DAVID: And there is a community online doing it already so youÕre not going to be the alone person in the chat room. There is people there that are engaging with each other. They're all having their own experience from their own different ways and they are sharing what is happening and its really nice. [00:30:10.16] Susan Skjei: Yeah, we do it as a cohort model so that people do go through the 8 weeks all together. And that's really great because that's how we build community. [00:30:19.06] DAVID: Yeah, and I'm so close to being done too. ItÕs so cool to see the transformation happen. So, we just have like a minute left and I just want to ask you so what's next for ALC - and anything happening, anything coming up an also how do people if they're interested and they want to follow up - how do they get a hold of you? How can they reach out and contact you? [00:30:40.10] Susan Skjei: Oh sure. Well we have very nice online presence and I can just give you that website right now. Its www.enaropa.org. And you can also access from Naropa's website through Authentic Leadership Center. The next two courses that are coming up are mindful at work - the one we were just talking about. That will start again on June 18th. So, if you're interested in that - that would be a great one to jump onto. Because I think it would be really fun for people to do during the summer months. [00:31:13.01] DAVID: Yeah, I'm going to be a graduate of that. [00:31:14.10] Susan Skjei: I know you will. That will be cool. And then the other one is our ten week flagship program so itÕs only 10 weeks in the summer, which is a little more intense. But itÕs all the same content. We still do two 5 day onsites but the whole thing happens in 10 weeks/ And that's a - a fantastic program. We're expecting quite a few people and - and we have people from different you know all over the world. We usually have - we've had programs where we have like 7 or 8 countries represented so itÕs - itÕs exciting. [00:31:47.22] DAVID: Yeah, and I've seen that because I've done some vide work with you and interviewed these people before and after and everyone is from everywhere. And they're - not only are they from everywhere. They are doing various different jobs between science, the humanities, working on the land or just being in business. [00:32:06.03] Susan Skjei: That's right. We - we really love that because we also have kind of an intergenerational dialogue as well. ItÕs not just people from one - one walk of life or one industry or one age group. So, we have you know people in their 20s - I mean up through 70s. ItÕs kind of amazing that way. [00:32:24.11] DAVID: The diversity of wanting to be an authentic leader is vast. ItÕs so good. [00:32:29.08] Susan Skjei: You had asked me earlier about what kind of outcomes people see. And what sort of transformation people go through. And then I would say that they all come in with a real strong desire to be more fully who they are and - to express that empowerment in their work lives as well. And then through the program they go through a kind of unmasking and opening up to themselves in new ways and to kind of rewrite in their own personal story perhaps. And then also to each other in different ways and maybe engaging with differences in different ways and all that comes by learning new skills and so by the end of the program people are often saying things like wow you know I came in thinking I was going to learn skills. Or thinking I was going to work on a project, but instead I found out the project was me. And I am now a different person. I feel more integrated. I feel more ability to work with conflict and I feel more ability to just meet those challenges in my life with more resources. So, that's kind of it in a nutshell I would say. [00:33:38.08] DAVID: Yeah, that's the best project you could be working on. [00:33:41.12] Susan Skjei: So true. [00:33:42.09] DAVID: I really appreciate everything you are doing. I really appreciate you and I really appreciate you speaking with us today. [00:33:47.19] Susan Skjei: Thank you so much. [00:33:49.23] DAVID: So, we just spoke with Susan Skjei the Director of the Authentic Leadership Center. Also known as the ALC here at Naropa and I'd just like to say thank you. [00:33:57.18] Susan Skjei: Certainly. [MUSIC] On behalf of the Naropa community thank you for listening to Mindful U. The official podcast of Naropa University. Check us out at www.naropa.edu or follow us on social media for more updates. [MUSIC]