Holistic Life Foundation [MUSIC] Hello. And welcome to Mindful U at Naropa. A podcast presented by Naropa University in Boulder, Colorado. I'm your host, David Devine. And itÕs a pleasure to welcome you. Joining the best of Eastern and Western educational traditions - Naropa is the birth place of the modern mindfulness movement. [00:00:43.18] DAVID: Hello. Today I would like to welcome a very special guest to the podcast and also to the Naropa community. We have brother's Ali and Atman Smith. And Andy Gonzalez. They are the founders of the Holistic Life Foundation. And itÕs really exciting to have you hear today so thank you for joining us. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: Thanks for having us. ItÕs a pleasure. What's up Naropa? [00:01:04.15] DAVID: So, I would love to just start with Holistic Life Foundation. What is it? What is it you do? How do you go about doing your work and how do you show up in your communities? HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: Uh, so we're a Baltimore based non-profit through - we started fresh out of the University of Maryland College Park back in 2001. Our focus is - it started off as a lot of different things. We were going to focus on ways to help the planet and the people and the show the interconnectedness between the planet's health and the people's health, so we were looking at initially it was yoga and it was alternative energy. It was farming. It was uh - living sustainable lifestyle and just any and everything we could do to have planetary and then like personal wellness to do just heal up everything. Uh as things went on it went to mostly yoga and mindfulness based work that we were doing uh because a lot of people were doing environmental work. In 2001, not a lot of people were doing mindfulness and yoga in schools. So, like that became a niche and it was - we still do some environmental work, but itÕs mostly the inner work that we're doing and hopefully people connect and do more out of work after that. I mean that does end up happening. [00:02:10.00] DAVID: Yeah, I am seeing a relationship between the inner work and the outer work and the mindfulness is the inner work. The working the land is the outer work and its really beautiful to kind of like counteract those together you know because itÕs like holistic as your foundation suggests. Nice. What kind of like outer work do you end up doing? HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: In regards to outer work we definitely organize community clean ups uh with mentors. I mean with our mentees. Kids that are in middle school and high school. We build raised bed gardens and uh create park spaces where there are vacant lots. Tree plantings. Rain barrels. You know - like we try to do the running the gamut as far as exposing you know urban communities to alternative ways to kind of heal up the planet and you know use resources like you know yeah so -- [00:03:00.00] DAVID: Wow! You guys seem so busy with everything that you are doing and itÕs kind of really exciting. Like the dedication you have feels very thick with love and just intention behind it and how do you sustain yourself within that? HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: Well, I mean this is our baby so itÕs really you know we are really focused on it and we definitely escribe still to the work hard play hard mantra kind of. You know so we make sure we still have some time for ourselves whether its traveling or Ali hanging with his boys or just taking some down time, you know what I mean? To be able to relax and just chill out. But I mean I say that the main reason we're able to do all that we do and still kind of remain even keel is our practice that all of us do meditate daily. And uh without that practice I think we would be a little more off kilter you know. Wouldn't be as centered and present as we are. Uh, but I think that the foundation of having that practice and always kind of uh embodying the practice is what allows us to do the work we are doing without burning ourselves up. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: You know we got a real strong team too. Like administratively and programmatically. Like we've - we've been on the road a lot in the last month and itÕs not going to end until pretty much the end of April. But uh - things are still rolling in Baltimore. All of our programs are still running. The office is still moving. Like our infrastructure is strong and our program staff is even stronger. So, itÕs - itÕs like a - itÕs a team. ItÕs not just - at one point the Holistic Life Foundation was the three of us. I mean that's what it was. We were doing everything, but now for us to be able to help the amount of people that we're helping and to be able to travel and continue things to grow and move. Like it has to be a really, really strong team. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: And we really enjoy our work uh we have fun. Our teacher told us like if you're not having fun or if you're class isn't having fun - you are not a good teacher. So, we have fun in whatever we do. We laugh a lot. And, that kind of balances out working hard. [00:04:44.09] DAVID: Yeah, itÕs quite interesting to realize how laughter can inform the work. You know the work you do. So, I really appreciate that. Uh so like you were talking about your team. What does your team look like now? Because it seems like you guys are exponentially expanding and you're traveling a lot. You started in Baltimore and now it seems like it might be kind of going to other places. So, like what does your team look like now? How do people get on your team? HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: I would say our program staff is around 40 people - a lot of them are former students of ours. People that have gone through our after school program. Some of them may have gone to our mentoring program, but they - and then they enter our workforce development program. And we train them to be instructors and go into schools and - I mean all throughout the community and do work. Uh some of them are young people that have been through our mindful moment program. They may have gotten in contact with us in high school and then they will graduate high school and if they are not going to college - or even if they are going to college - we will train them, and they will become instructors. Or volunteers that - that turn out to be really good volunteers and then we train them to be instructors or friends of current employees will train them and they will become instructors for us. And now, there is people that work at yoga studios are - or people who are meditation teachers and mindfulness practitioners - they'll reach out to us too. I mean we compensate our teachers really well. Like they make - they make a good earning and the people that are instructors at yoga studios realize that they can bring the practice to people who might not be able to have access to it. But at the same time make more than they are making at a yoga studio. So, itÕs kind of a win win for everybody. [00:06:11.16] DAVID: Yeah, bringing that information out and just sharing it. I love - I love the idea of like empowering people. Like not just oh keep coming here with something that I want you know financially. ItÕs this like let me give you the tools to like self regulate yourself. I love that. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: That's basically our model is reciprocal teaching. Like our teacher made us promise him like that you know if he told us that we were going to be teachers. We do that with all of - our students or clients is like you know we kind of teach in a way that they learn the benefits of the practice, how to practically use them and how to lead themselves and other people through the practice. A lot of times people when they introduce us they always say oh these three guys have been doing this amazing work and uh they saved all these you know thousands of kidsÕ lives and - and we're quick to correct them and say we didn't save anyone's lives - we provided the tools for them to save their own lives. [00:07:05.22] DAVID: Yes! HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: That is what we like to do is just give them the skills and the techniques so that when they are faced with adverse scenarios and situations they'll be able to - to manage their emotions or what they are going through and be able to be uh more present and, in that moment, so they can be more compassionate, loving individuals. I know one thing Ali always says in regards to that - like when we empower people with maybe a horrible business model, but itÕs great for making change. You know? [00:07:31.00] DAVID: That's the business model I want. So, I want the model that is going to change stuff up. I feel like there is such a huge shift happening. And like the work is within is where the work needs to start. You know, because there is a lot of external work and itÕs like how do we filter all this? And so, like giving people the tools to have a skillful filter over their heart, over their mind, over their soul and just like over whatever they're like transposing it on - their communities, their situations. You speak about your teacher uh can you tell me more about that? Like who taught you? Kind of where does that come from the lineage maybe the techniques you've learned and kind of integrated into your work. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: Yeah, itÕs our uh me and Ali's godfather - our dad's best friend uh he was one of those people that got into yoga and contemplative practices in the mid 60s. Uh - yeah, he was just one of those people that fell in love with the practice and couldn't stop learning. Like he was an avid reader. He was an avid learner and he's just very passionate about it. Uh he taught our dad a couple practices for his prostate and uh my dad was sold and they did some studying in a few - like some kundalini places. They went to a church that was based on kriya. They went to learn tantra in D.C. So, they learned a lot of different things, but I mean he's just one of those people that just felt the deep connection to the practice and never gave it up. Like itÕs what his life is and uh I think he made us promise to be teachers because he doesn't - like he loves his life. Like he loves the fact that he can just kind of sit back and study and practice when he wants to and be there for us. He can just kind of dump all the information on us and like all right you guys go - go do your thing with it, but I just want to - just let me be me. He was always really adamant about making sure that uh he introduced us to a wide variety of techniques too because he said he knew that we were going to be facing all sorts of demographics and different types of populations and he wanted to make sure we had as many tools in our toolbox so that when we go to whatever scenario or whoever it is we're talking to that we can impact them. I mean it started a lot with more mat based practices. Some more of the physical asanas and some of the pranayama techniques and the breathing exercises and the meditations and now itÕs a lot more subtle practices. I know uh we still probably each see him once a week to this day and itÕs like three to four hours just talking about like love and oneness now, which is awesome! ItÕs like the best time in my -- [00:09:48.11] DAVID: That's yummy! HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: Yeah right. [00:09:49.09] DAVID: Bring it on. I love that. Love and oneness. Oh my god. That love and oneness made me forgot the question I just wanted to ask. I am all about it. Uh -- how do you see this work empowering individuals? Like what has shown up for you? It seems as though you've been doing it enough time that you've seen the impact - the enriching of people's lives. The individuality coming to fruition. How does that show up for you? What does it look like from your perspective? HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: I know one story that jumps right in my mind is uh we always tell is of this little girl who kind of grew up in the same projects that Freddie Green was from. And itÕs like a very under served community so she used to come to school with tattered clothes and people use to make fun of her so she was always fighting. And it wasn't good that she was fighting because her brother got introduced to boxing at a young age and taught her how to punch and she was just knocking people out - boys, girls, older, same age. And uh you know she - eventually gravitated to the practice and she became one of our best teachers but you know she still had a little edge to her and we saw it actually click in her mind to actually practically use the techniques that we were teaching her one day when some girl said something to her to get her upset and she jacked the little girl up on a wall and then she saw us walking around the corner - she looked at the girl, looked at us, looked at the girl, looked at us, looked at the girl and she pointed in the girl's face and was like you better be glad I'm meditating. Dropped her and sat down and started doing some breathing. And the principal saw that and after she saw that she was definitely like man we definitely need you all in the school and that's when we went - the following year we were able to do an in school or during school the Mindful Moment program because she saw the impact that we had with it. One of her more challenging students and you know the practice actually - she was living the practice instead of just having to do the practice on the mat. [00:11:40.01] HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: I think it also empowers people with like kind of awareness and connection because like a lot of people aren't connected to themselves first of all. Like they are kind of disconnected from their true inner self and like it kind of puts them in a little box. They get connected to like whatever is physically in front of them but when we connect kids or show kids how to connect with their real self the world opens up to them and there is more accessible and there is more - it seems tangible to reach out and achieve and then like just an awareness of what is going on inside of them. A lot of times people's thoughts are - they are kind of slaves to their thoughts and their thoughts are kind of going in a negative spiral and it just drags them down, but just the awareness of ok this is a thought. I don't have to take ownership of it. I don't have to judge it. ItÕs a thought and then I can move forward in the direction I choose to move it and not just have my thoughts drag me around and have my senses drag me around and like we just kind of drew in my sense born desires. Like itÕs an awareness of inner and outer but just definitely awareness and connection. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: Yeah, itÕs amazing to see stable on that - how they do gain that increased sense of self-worth. You know when they really identify with who they really are and they learn to love themselves - how it starts to exude from them. And they become more compassionate empathetic individuals to everyone because I think that they can put themselves in other people's shoes and understand that they may be facing certain scenarios or trauma that has impacted them and that's why they are going through it. So, I think that they make that connection that we are all one and itÕs a unifying thing that where - as individuals learn to love themselves. They to learn to love everyone else more and then the culture and the climate in the school and the neighborhood really transforms to that sense of community again. I mean we always say that the reason that they call hoods hoods is because the neighbors moved out, so it was a neighborhood. Uh the neighbors moved out so now itÕs a hood, but what we're doing is we're transforming back into turning those hoods into neighborhoods where itÕs that sense of family and that community and that whole village raising a child. [00:13:40.11] DAVID: I love that. So, you kind of like sparked an idea in my mind. So, when you're having these like enslavements thoughts - these thoughts that kind of like bring you down or kind of suggesting things that aren't in line with your higher self, like I had this idea where itÕs like question the questions. Where are the questions coming from? What is questioning? Like distinguishing between ego and what is actually serving you and like you were saying of just letting those things go and not holding on to them and it seems as though the breathing practice is a moment to bring in the moment and be like what does serve me? You know and like question where that question is coming from. Because like if you have a question that is challenging you or a thought that is challenging you you can realize that's ego based. Ego is a psyche mechanism for certain things but not for this. You know? And then you also got me thinking like when I was younger I was like what if they just taught how to love in school. ItÕs like how many of - how many - we're you taught to love? I wasn't. You know and itÕs like - like school hard knocks - I didn't learn how to love. I had to figure out myself and to be honest like if - I feel like if we were taught to love at a young age - where would we be? It would be so good. And then it feels as though like you - there is so much love in your work that I am like yeah. This is where itÕs going. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: I mean itÕs so true. I mean I think that's - we always talk about the concept of love and even trying to break down kind of some of those uh misconceptions of love. You know a lot of people I think when they think of the word love they identify with lust - more lust than love. Where itÕs that - the sensual or the sexual desires that you're having and there is often times where we are talking to youth or adults even and we bring up that conversation how awkward some people may feel discussing love or even when I say I love you to them they look at me like who the hell are you? What do you mean you love me type stuff you know so I think as we bring that up more and we talk to kids - there is one great example Ali that you always talk about with when we're on the porch with Teddy and them? ALI: Oh yeah when we were uh - there was a group of young people we were working with in our neighborhood and they were - they were wild. They were a wild group of kids and they were - they used to kind of - they just didn't have respect for other people's property - our neighbor directly next door to us they would like throw trash on the porch. They would hop on our car. They would play tag around our car and break stuff. They would kick the banister and like knock places loose from the banister and one day she came out and just kind of cursed the three of us out about it. And then the kids came by and we had to like - because we would nicely ask them. Like hey can you all please stop - like she is not really appreciating this. So, we had to kind of say it in a little more forceful manner and I am like you know what I mean - we had to give it to them a little bit just to make them see that this was serious. [00:16:24.04] DAVID: Samurai sword came out. ALI: You know what I mean? Like we had to break out the samurai sword. And uh - the next day - all of them showed up except for one who we kind of like directed everything at because he was kind of like the ring leader of when they would kind of go a little crazy and uh - he didn't show up the next day and we were - they were like. Well I was like well where is Teddy and they were like well he didn't come by. Like you were mean to him yesterday. And I was like - I mean I love him. Like he should always be around, and they were like oh you can't say that. You can't say you love people. And we - I was like what? I love all of you all. Oh, you just can't say - you just can't run around and say you love people. And like these were kids that like - felt free to curse around us but it was weird for us to say that we loved them. But now I mean through through the years I mean they - they say I love you to us and itÕs like they understand. I think we just had to model what love was and like Andy was saying it wasn't that physical attraction or lust thing. It was like a deep spiritual connection and understanding to them. [00:17:21.13] DAVID: Yeah. Uh skillful love based in ego-based love. Like where is the love coming from? You know - and - and learning how to redefine what love means to you because as we grow older we start realizing - like when you have a family and like you have children and a wife and you go deeper into your family you realize there might have been conditions that you are un-conditioning. So, you are able to like - peel the layers back and be like whoa there it is. And itÕs like infinite water depth of just like yes that's where itÕs at. So, I really dig that and - itÕs almost like you love that person more because you're willing to show up in the tough love moment and just be like hey look I am seeing this thing and I just really need to talk to you about it. I want to meet you half way. So, thank you for sharing that. So, why yoga and meditation? What is it about those modalities that have the richness that you were looking for. Like what draw you to those because it seemed like you kind of grew up in a setting where it was around but what triggered the moment when you were like this might be useful for other people like I want to start something out of that. Was there anything else you were kind of dabbling with? And maybe want to play with that. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: I mean I remember uh when we got into yoga - our contemplative practices it was after we had uh - actually gone on a search for like what's the purpose of our existence? Why are we here? And you know we searched through the libraries and you know different topics like creational theories, astrology, astronomy, philosophy uh just looking for answers. And the more we looked - the more questions arose and then uh - our teacher - you know we were all over there hanging out one day and we saw a yoga manual. I think it was a survival kit - by Yogi Bhajan. Uh and it told you all these different miraculous things that you can achieve through yoga and meditation and you know we asked our uncle - we were like yoga and meditation can help you do these things and we're like really big into like Star Wars and superheroes and we were like you we're about to like become JediÕs. [00:19:25.15] DAVID: I feel that. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: And uh -- he was definitely like uh amazed that somebody was interested because he had been trying to like teach us for a while and we were just not receptive or not ready at the time. But, you know we - when we saw like some of the super powers that we would come from this practice we got excited about it and asked the teachers and you know he told us first of that's a byproduct. That's not why you do the practice. Its just - itÕs just comes from the practice. And then he told us like if you all are serious come over at 4 in the morning and also if you come over you're not going to be - he said I don't want any devotees - I want teachers. So, we knew it was going to be a herculean task in front of us. So, we dove into our practice and we saw how it kind of strengthened us mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally and you know just tapped into our source. And we're like yes this - this is it. This is what we were looking for and you know because we did feel so I guess euphoric and you know clear headed and seeing through different eyes. And you know conscious of different things. And more empathetic and more connected with the earth and humanity and every living thing on the planet and wanting to help everything. But just like you if everybody had this in their life everybody would be helping each other, and it would be a lot less friction. So, you know we eventually got the opportunity. The universe provided it for us and you know we've been providing these uh techniques and tools ever since for the past 17 years. [00:20:52.05] DAVID: 17 years. That's a long time. You have like a really old teenager practice right now. That is so cool. ItÕs really interesting how you were talking about the different lenses and I am sure within those 17 years you've had to - get a new prescription of lens and or clean the lens sometimes and I am sure that you've been doing this practice enough where you've witnessed other people kind of like switch their prescription of like how they see the world and how they experience their communities and how they show up to themselves. There is something really beautiful about that because like if we're not developing what are we doing? You know like that's my whole thing is like what are we doing? You know if we're not willing to feel uncomfortable and like challenge ourselves then -- HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: That's when you're stuck. [00:21:37.13] DAVID: Yeah, I don't want to be stuck. I feel like you all are super heroes too. Like there is some - like straight up - there is a super hero power within that because everything is vibration and energy and a wave and the waves that you're allowing people to accelerate their omni presently spreading it out from their center - you know and you're empowering them to reach where the good stuff is you know and itÕs like - its - this is the work right here. You know you are doing it and superheroes in this room. And its just - I am digging that. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: Inside I am like doing the fist pump since he said superheroes. Yes, we made it! [00:22:20.01] DAVID: Internal fist pump. All right, so what's next for you? What's next for Holistic Life Foundation? Any future plans? Anything on the horizon. Anything you want to share? HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: ItÕs just scaling up. We want to help more people. Uh we - we wanted to help as many people as possible. We realized that person to person there is only certain many people that we can help even with the program staff of 40 uh so we wanted to figure out some ways to help more people but use technology to our advantage. So, we came up with this program - just a couple things. We came up with a program called Bridging Academics in the Mind. Or BAM! [00:22:59.08] DAVID: I like that. Can you do that again? HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: BAM! And uh so - itÕs like - itÕs a combination of like an online curriculum uh online audio recordings and online animations. Online animations of us teaching practices but I think the thing that we struggle with - the things along those - along those lines is fidelity and making sure that people are teaching the practices the right way. And people are like taking ownership of the practice uh because I mean you can - you can turn on a recording in a room but like you need someone - like you need a teacher to buy in as well and to have their own practice to some extent for the - because the kids are going to have questions. Things are going to come up. So, I mean there is a lot of training that will be involved in this program as well, but I mean itÕs a step in the right direction for us. Some curriculum development and some things that we're working on. I mean but again with curriculum development you don't want people to get tied to curriculum. Because the way that we teach and the way that we train our teachers is you walk into a room with a toolbox and you just listen and with your ears and with your heart. Like you listen to the students and you give them what they need. So, we're trying to figure that out too. We do a lot of consulting and traveling these days. Like helping people set up mindfulness programs at their schools and in their communities. And uh another thing that is happening a lot is like with - with mindfulness becoming so mainstream - there is a lot of people that go out and take like a weekend long mindfulness workshop and they are like oh I know this now. I can go teach at the school and I am going to start a school program. I mean -- [00:24:19.19] DAVID: ItÕs like hold up. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: I mean. [00:24:21.09] DAVID: Like wait a minute. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: And they will start it and they will crash and burn. So, schools will call us and be like could you come fix this please. So -- HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: I would say ideally, I mean the big big picture is uh - I mean we wanted to be everywhere you know Baltimore is our baby and that's where we're really really focused on but anywhere that people invite us to come we'd like to spread the techniques and the practices and the programs and get them to start implementing them in their areas and neighborhoods. And I mean we are really I think making a dramatic change in the education system already with programs stirring from punitive practices and going to more of these self-care techniques they can use. But I think ideally the intention is to go beyond just education field and just to make it everywhere. So, in politics and in healthcare system and the military. You know everywhere. People should be breathing and meditating. [00:25:11.17] DAVID: Yeah. Please do that. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: So, one of the - one of the bigger projects we're working on now is with the Ford Foundation and the Foundation for Mindfulness Society, Mindful Magazine and actually with Naropa too. This Mindful Cities Baltimore project where we're going to look at trying to infuse mindfulness into the entire city. So, it will be in the schools. It will be - with the police. It will be with the politicians. With business leaders. With families. And figuring out like - like we know what we do really well as the Holistic Life Foundation but there are also people around the country that do some amazing work as far as mindfulness goes so bringing in as many partners as possible to make it really strong and make it work in Baltimore so that Baltimore can become a mindful city. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: And if stuff works in Baltimore it can work anywhere. You know like so its definitely a great uh first place to start and then be able to scale out from there. [00:25:59.20] DAVID: So, what you are telling me is it can work anywhere. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: Oh definitely. [00:26:03.15] DAVID: Yes, this is good stuff. I am feeling inner tickle right here. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: Inner fist pump. [00:26:08.15] DAVID: My inner fist pump is just like raging right now. Like homey just drop the beat. And I am just like yes! So, oh my god, so I want to dive a little bit deeper into this like bringing the city into it and itÕs not just like an educational base thing -- itÕs like bringing everybody in together to work on it. Bringing a whole city together. That's a huge task and I bow to that. Let's do that. And how does that look for you - like how - who do you talk to - do you do like - you start with like the mayor. You start with like the people on the board of trustees of the city. You speak with the police department. You bring the - you just bring everybody - like hey meet us here in the park. Like everybody show up and we'll just like get down. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: I think itÕs - we start off with a local foundation as - Isabelle Krieger Trust - uh they've been supporters of ours for a long time and like are just really good-hearted people. Uh just in general. And just love Baltimore. Yeah, they love Baltimore and I think itÕs more of like - I think our first step is just really come up with an inventory or what's going on in Baltimore and who will be strong partners. And I mean just like really kind of going about it a strategically. So, because like having people show this way will be beautiful. You know what I mean, but I feel like we have to be more meticulous about it and more purposeful about every single action we make so that we can make sure that its working and getting everywhere. Because there is a lot of strong partners that we could have in Baltimore but itÕs a matter - and making sure that everyone's voice is heard, and everyone is being listened to and I think that's what's going to make this project really be strong and really help push Baltimore into actually being a mindful city. [00:27:43.17] DAVID: Sounds like you've done your homework and you know exactly what - where you want to go. You have the skill. You have the knowledge. You have the - the ten year or 17 years behind you. There is really like some things starting to like come to fruition here and I love - I love to like - you know like you can build a garden in a park and it can feed a little community but if you teach a city how to build a garden in every little nook and cranny - like that's what's going on. You know you are feeding the people. You are bringing them together. They're working in the earth. They are working in their hearts. Like there is nothing better you can do than that. You know? HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: Preach. [00:28:20.10] DAVID: You preach. You're doing it. I am reiterating. LAUGHS. This is all good stuff. I've got a dove garden too. So, I am down. Like I - I was going to do it this weekend, but apparently, itÕs snowing so - so how many schools are you involved in at the moment? Where are you working now? Where have you been implementing? Baltimore is your home town. Is there anything outside the state that you are doing? HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: Baltimore, we work in the public and private school - just educationally we work in the public and private schools. Public schools is about 10 thousand kids a week. The private schools I mean the private schools are smaller so itÕs a lot less. [00:28:59.02] DAVID: That's a lot. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: Yeah, itÕs a lot. Its - itÕs a whole lot. And then we set our programs in Louisville, Kentucky at Fairdale High School we helped to set up a mindfulness - a Mindful Moment program uh similar to what we do in Baltimore. Several schools uh where we did training of the person that is like their mindfulness - liaison at the - like their mindfulness person at the school. Like they're a mindfulness staff member at the school. ItÕs all in charge... [00:29:24.17] DAVID: They don't come with psychologists. ItÕs a mindfulness? HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: No, itÕs like they're - they're title - she is like the mindfulness person at the school. [00:29:31.22] DAVID: ItÕs all about like the way we label it. It kind of gives me - keep going. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: So, we - we help them set up that program and train like some student ambassadors to help out and support her. So that program is going really well. On the Eastern shore Maryland Somerset County, we're working on going district wide out there. We started with three schools uh where we help them set up mindful programs and train their staff and some young people to be able to help the staff. To be able to facilitate those programs. Uh in Charlottesville we set up - we did a residency in training program. We helped the Boys and Girls Club uh set up a mindfulness program where we train some 18 to 24 year oldÕs uh to run some programming down there and we train them and we sent some of our staff down there to stay for the entire summer so they can kind of model what good teaching looks like. And then we pulled our self out of the situation and the young people from Charlottesville we're running the program and they actually won the program for outstanding new health and wellness program uh in Boys and Girls Clubs in the state of Virginia for how well their mindfulness program was going. In Madison, there is several schools. We've set our programs up at an elementary school, middle school and high school. So, I mean we - we're all over the place. [00:30:41.03] DAVID: Sorry, that question mildly felt like a test of like oh can you list all the places you're at. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: And the thing is I know I am missing some because the three of us go out and do stuff, but now itÕs like our senior staff - those people - the young people that we started with in 2001 in the 5th grade - they are now 26, 27 years old. Like we will send them out and they'll go help set up programs in other places too and run programs at schools. So, itÕs not just the three of - like I said itÕs a strong team. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: We've done some international ventures as well too. So we've done some work in Austria and Germany and Scotland, England and its always cool to go and face a different culture with different language and see how the techniques still resonate, still works beyond language barriers and everything you know the breath and the meditation techniques - you see - I remember when we were in Austria it was us and when we first got in - and uh the head master looks at us and she is like you all shouldn't be here. This is a waste of time. The kids aren't going to get nothing out it. And three days later - they're all asking us to sign autographs and stuff like that and the head master comes up to us and she's like look - how much would it cost for me to pay for you all to come move here and do this program at my school for - for just forever. And we're looking at her like - three days ago you said we wouldn't even get nothing done here. And now you want us to live here. Well of course we had to come back to Baltimore. [00:31:56.17] DAVID: Yeah of course. Home base. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: Yeah right. [00:31:59.21] DAVID: Its where the heart is. Awesome. Well itÕs nice to know that the heart is resonating in such a - like your heart beat of what the work you're doing is resonating. Starting at Baltimore. But its - its global you know. ItÕs really doing this work - how was that like stepping into a different culture? You know we all have the same apparatus. We all have a mind. We all have body. We all - breath. How is it going into the uh - the templates they have with their cultures and with their minds? Was there anything difficult. Anything easier? How did that show up for you? HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: I mean I don't know it felt pretty simple for us. I mean I think we get a long with - with more generally with most people and uh we were just - I think the key is we're always real and true to ourselves to we stay genuine and authentic and we just go there and know that hey we're just here to share the practice and share ourselves and all that we've learned in the transformation that occurred within us. We want other people to feel that same thing. So, itÕs fun. I mean whenever we go anywhere and face any new type of area or culture I always feel like itÕs - itÕs a stepping stone for us. I think we grow because we learn that uh things can be done different ways, or you know seeing different cultures and experiencing that type of stuff - I think it always helps us grow spiritually and inwardly as well because you know America has some specific ways they do things. And itÕs almost like we're brainwashed like to think this is the right way to do things. So, when you go somewhere else itÕs like how do I know if what we are doing is the right way to do things? I mean I remember even just like simple things like in Germany it blew our minds like in public bathrooms - like all the public bathrooms - I mean you stepped out - the lights turned off right away to save electricity. The streets just seem cleaner because some of the systems they had in place - their refrigerators are super small so that they are buying more fresh foods. They are not just storing frozen and processed foods all the time. You know - little things that if we had never gone there we wouldn't have seen it - and I know itÕs changed the way that I look at the world and the way I live so. Just very impactful. [00:33:57.14] DAVID: Yeah. Awesome. Thanks for sharing. So - I got a couple more questions. And, I want to start out - what do you think it is about mindfulness and about yoga that uh - triggers slash empowers people? Like why that practice? Why not baseball, basketball, writing, you know all these might do that as well. I don't want to take away from these other practices or like martial arts or something like that, but - why - what do you think it is with being present, being mindful, the breath work and yoga? HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: I think with a lot of those other practices you mentioned - itÕs some of them are very physical. Some of them are physical and emotional. Some of them are physical and emotional and mental but the mindfulness and yoga takes it a step deeper. You get a connection to like your - your true inner self like that spark that is inside of everyone and everything - like and you figure out how to connect to it. And I think itÕs just - itÕs just a deeper connection that you are not going to feel - I mean there are a lot of - there are tons of contemplative practices - it might be mindful. It might be yoga. It might be something else, but with contemplative practice your connecting to like that universal nature inside of everyone and everything and itÕs like you - I mean you feel it. Like when you get in there you feel it and you know itÕs there and itÕs not something that's a theory. ItÕs like this is a fact and then like that's when you have to - like you were saying you got to adjust your prescription because like you were looking at the world the wrong way. Like you were on the mundane with it - there is so many other things going on on so many other different levels and you're connected to it. And then you are kind of moving from there. And itÕs like hard to - itÕs hard to be a dick to somebody when you - when you know you are connected to them. You know what I mean? Like itÕs hard to do that. Like you may do it in the past when you we're looking at yourself as separate you're like you were fine with it. But then like once you - your eyes open up to a different thing itÕs like - well - you start to feel that remorse - like damn I messed up right there. Like I shouldn't. Like I got to do something about that. Like that - that wasn't right and like you start being more aware of the test that the universe is throwing at you. And like as you do like you start to grow and you start to change, and you start to like - you are in the zone of un-comfortability and where you're constantly growing and you're constantly trying to become even in closer contact with yourself and then as you become in close contact with yourself you become in closer contact with everything and everyone else around you. [00:36:18.21] DAVID: Yeah, realizing the connection is never separate. You know following the mystery. Outcome-izg the information that is external because I have this feeling where everything external is neutral until you internalize it. You know so the - the more skillful your heart filter is - the way you see life - the way you see others and the connection - the like better everything is going to turn out to be. Like the universal nectar is just right here for us to just - just have. You know and like ego dissolving - that's - that's not fun. People don't like that. But - but that's where itÕs at. You know what I mean? Have ego as a friend. Be skillful with ego and I - I'm really enjoying like how your perspective is just really clean, clear, simple and available. And empowering. So -- thank you. All right, so I got one more question. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: That's cool. Ask away. [00:37:12.14] DAVID: All right. What are the greatest takeaways from your work? How have you shifted over time being in a teacher position. Being in a student position? Being in a life living position? How have you shifted? What have you seen - can you speak to any of that? HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: That's a great question. [00:37:32.19] DAVID: I am sorry that's deep. I like to just cut it through you know. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: So, I think - I guess just for me itÕs been a starting from when we first got introduced to the practice to now - there has been a lot of life changes you know what I mean. Like just the fact that when we started we were - fresh out of college and like things we're going on and the world was a different place and I didn't have - like I have two sons now. So, like that changes your perspective a lot. Uh - I know like just realizing that when we first started we - I felt like - like I could learn it all. You know what I mean? Like if I learn this stuff I will know it all. I can - but then just realizing like the more we learn - the less we knew you know what I mean. We're like - I will never learn. Like it will take me like 6 billion incarnations to learn all this stuff. Like let me just be ok with going inside and soaking up as much as I can. You know what I mean? Like itÕs not going down - so I think it was just like - and realizing that instead of like going out to teach - just being a student all the time. Like you know what I mean. Like there is - there are teachers every and in everything. Like the people, nature like even - like everywhere there is teachers. ItÕs just a matter of whether you're open to listen and not - too high on your own teacher ego just to like where you're like no I have all the answers you should be listening to me - if you stop for a second. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: And just honestly how uh these techniques and tools are a survival skill. You know like a lot of people you know think that we're always uh well-mannered and mindful and stuff like that. We're human. You know what I mean. And we make mistakes and sometimes tests come our way and we've failed them. Uh but I really think itÕs one of those things is that we have the conscious to see that we fail those tests and when they do come back in our life again because they will - if you fail a test its going to come back in a different type of way and then we - you analyze it and you're mindful of the test coming back into your life then you pass it. You know what I mean? HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: Or you fail the hell out of it a couple more times. But then after you pass the test eventually - another test will present itself. But then itÕs like really having tools to be able to deal with the ups and downs of the human experience and I think that is one thing that we've been able to grasp is like no we are not holier than now. We make mistakes - we mess up. You know so but itÕs all about having these techniques to kind of check yourself. And energize yourself and check in and bring yourself back to center. [00:39:54.09] DAVID: Skillfully, consciously owning it. That's what I am hearing. And uh maybe redefining what failure means to you. Because maybe failure actually means growth instead of like oh I failed. And you know itÕs like we have this taboo l like don't fail. Like screw that - fail. Learn, develop, like see what's going on. You know. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: So, itÕs definitely how you learn is by failing a few times. You know what I mean? Like you are not going to learn if you like just floating on through and everything is all easy. Like you get your ass kicked by life. That is where you're going to learn some stuff. And that's where best practices arise. [00:40:26.04] DAVID: So true. Anything you want to share? HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: I mean I think they hit it. Basically, I would say uh - you know I think one thing throughout the entire process that probably impacted all of us, but I know really like smacked me in the face - I didn't have the same foundation as they had when they we're younger. You know their parents meditated and they were introduced to a lot of these concepts. So wasn't until college that I started really uh diving into all this stuff. And I think the uh - the main thing is just realization of self. You know - who I really am. You know beyond my name and my race and age and this physical - but more the - the real you know infinite self that omnition, omnipresent, omnipotent self. All of us are and that realization was so powerful you know. And for me to recognize that and then to see that and all other living things and that's where that love stems from - that uh you know Ali touched on it - like how are you going to be mean or rude to somebody if you are being mean or rude to yourself? Like why - you should be loving to everything all the time because itÕs just another version of you. You know you are the architect of your own destiny. You manifested this reality for your experience to - to face these struggles and these you know and getting kicked in the ass every once and a while. Like you people - I can't - like you know you made yourself get your ass kicked right so you can learn that lesson. You know so itÕs all part of it I think - I think learning that and learning that its really just interactions. You know that there is no teacher. There is no student. We are all just one and our teacher always says that to us and I still call them teacher. And he hates is when I call teacher. He's like I am just a conduit. Or I am just a reminder. So, I always try to say - reminder or conduit and now I have to see it as - you know you go through life and you have interactions with individual scenarios, situations and both parties are learning or multiple parties are learning from the interaction with each other. And that's how we continue to grow until we can finally unite and be one again. [00:42:25.12] DAVID: There is a martial art practice that I do and my teacher he is called the Sifu and its teacher father. So, he like holds roles where itÕs like mentor teacher father and everyone else is like brother and sister in the class. So, I can kind of see -- HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: What practice do you -- [00:42:40.00] DAVID: ItÕs called (?). ItÕs a form of like uh kung fu - the tai chi. ItÕs some really - itÕs some heavy stuff. ItÕs some really - itÕs some heavy stuff. Yeah, itÕs like bringing the gravities of heaven and earth and putting it into person. So, like when you talk about breath you know people breath from their lungs. The lungs are like a cup. You fill it up. You're full. But if you bring from your dantien(?) where the heaven and earth meet. That's like where they say what's up. That's where you can like fill your body up with breath. So, I've done a lot of like different breathing techniques and brought it out of the martial arts and kind of like stepped into the meditative sort of sense and - itÕs not just - itÕs not just martial. Its art. You know the martial is the art and itÕs like throughout it they've learned that like wow this is actually a good way to live as well. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: You know you saying that made me - remind me - I think one thing that has come up recently a lot for me is the importance of staying grounded. Like connected to this - like not being too - spiritual I mean but being really, really grounded at times to really be able to be effective in this human experience - like you can't be too - like our dad and our teacher used to say you can't have your head in the clouds and your ass on the ground. Like you have to be - you got to be here like you're in this human experience. You have to experience it. You have to enjoy it and you have to learn from it. So, it can't just be a total spiritual endeavor. Like it has to be a combination of the two. [00:43:56.17] DAVID: ItÕs the balance. Yeah, like heaven's gravity like we grow up as humans. Like literally we get vertical when we start getting older and the gravity of earth is holding us down and then where the chi is developed is in the middle. Is in your dantien(?) - like kind of three inches below - like back in your belly button and that is where the breath starts. So, like heaven and earth get to meet there and I feel like you are speaking to that where itÕs this gravitational pull of like realizing we're going up. And realizing we're going down and then this is where we hang out. You know heaven and earth in person. So -- HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: Man, when you talk about it - you're a superhero too. We're like the Avengers up in here. [00:44:38.01] DAVID: We like just like combining forces right now. All right, let's do it. Ok, I just have one more question because I am kind of curious - like - you said you came later to the practices. So, their brothers. And you're their - ANDY: I met them in college. [00:44:54.07] DAVID: You're the superhero that came a little bit later developing your own skill. And then you're just like oh here we go. So, how did you all meet? ANDY: It was in college really. Uh - I mean we would like to say that we met at the meditation club or something like that, but we met out partying at bars and parties and stuff like that. So, we were kind of pretty wild guys in college. We were party animals and late nigh conversations turned philosophical and spiritual and just talking about the meaning of life and why we are here. And what we wanted to do, and we had a lot of similarities uh in terms of the way that we viewed the world and we saw a lot of suffering going on and being that we were into the superhero type stuff we thought - man we got to save the world and who else is going to do it? No one else seems like they want to do it. ItÕs going to be on us. We're going to do it. And that's kind of - it piqued our curiosity and we started going deeper and deeper and that's when like our party group turned into a book club and we started studying you know uh outwardly, inwardly and then one day Ali was at their godfather's house with all of us and he saw that book on that alter that Yogi Bhajan book and had those meditations and that's when it all really began. He's like show up at 4 in the morning. We all we're knocking on his door at 3:55 in the morning. [00:46:00.20] DAVID: Yeah, I was going to say did he say 4 in the morning? Was that like the first test? HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: We thought it was. I mean it was late when he told it to us and we had some libations in us and stuff like that. So, I think he was looking at us kind of like - they're not really going to wake up. Like you really want to do this - [00:46:16.21] DAVID: Show me. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: Yeah exactly. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: And then - 17, 18 years later we're still learning from him. [00:46:24.23] DAVID: The learning process is never over. You know what I mean and - the way you digest the information might shift and it seems like there was some sort of like conversation about like talking about life and the meaning of life and what's weird is the thing that is thinking about the meaning of life is the brain and itÕs like conceptualizing the reality in which we live in the fabric that we're weaving all the time and itÕs like is the brain even able to like fathom - like look how vast the freaking universe is. You know like we - what is the meaning of life? The meaning of life is to give it meaning. There is no meaning. Its uniquely given to you to decide what that is. And to have like a really good center that is glowing bright and just really vibrant and being able to like burst that out you know. And to - you know we're going to run into things that don't vibrate with us but to - to have the skills to practice things to maneuver through those difficult spaces - just - that is how we grew up. I want to grow up. LAUGHING. Show me how. So, I think that's it for me. I am - I'm really loving those conversation and I don't want to hold you guys up too much uh it was just like such a pleasure, such an honor, extremely refreshing to like speak with you all. So, thank you for coming today. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: Thank you for having us. We appreciate it. I just want to say we've been on a lot of podcasts - you're really, really good at this. [00:47:49.17] DAVID: What? No. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: You're good. You're really good. I would like to hang and just chat with you - itÕs awesome. [00:47:56.01] DAVID: Well you guys are leaving today. I was going to say I am DJ-ing a sushi bar if you guys like they give you a tab and they got like fine drinks and I will take you all out. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: I mean I am sure we will be back so next time when we come out here. We will make sure we get your contact number. That would be awesome. [00:48:11.02] DAVID: I am like a DJ on the side, so I am always doing some crazy stuff. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: That is awesome. So, you're the person we need to hang with on weekends. [00:48:18.05] DAVID: Yeah, I do a bunch of -- but like let's trade some connections and keep it tight. Uh cool. So, I would like to thank our special guests to the podcast and also to the Naropa community from the Holistic Life Foundation. We have Ali and Atman Smith and Andy Gonzalez, and I would just like to say thank you once again. HOLISTIC LIFE FOUNDATION: Thank you. Love all you all. [MUSIC] On behalf of the Naropa community thank you for listening to Mindful U. The official podcast of Naropa University. Check us out at www.naropa.edu or follow us on social media for more updates. [MUSIC]