Greg Dunlap All right. Thanks for joining us here today, Bruce, Bruce Adams Thank you Greg for the invitation. It's great to be here. Greg Dunlap Sure. So why don't you tell me about where you were at around the time you started Kranky and what kind of motivated you get the label going in the first place. Bruce Adams I was working at a wholesale music distribution company in Chicago, called Cargo. It was a subsidiary of a bigger Canadian company that also had a London office. So my colleagues and I were gearing and unpacking and shipping records from all over the United States, Canada, the UK monthly. And my coworker, Joe Loeschke, was a domestic buyer, one of the domestic buyers there. And he and I were often complaining about the sameness of a lot of what we were hearing coming down the pipeline. Then almost parallel, the cargo itself was so amazingly disorganized and dysfunctional, that like most Americans, on a Friday afternoon, we were asking ourselves a question, my boss, incompetent or creepy. And we were we discussed starting a record label sort of as sort of as a point of discussion, sort of a barstool or a lunchtime conversation. And one day Joel motioned to me into his office, he had a seven inch single by a new band from Richmond, Virginia called LaBradford, put it on the turntable played it for me, it was completely unlike anything else we were hearing. When we thought to ourselves, this is the band, we could start a record label around, they're unique enough that it would distinguish our label from every other outfit that was working at the time. So we decided to step up the ledge. Joel contacted LaBradford, I went out and did all the things you need to do to set up a business. And we went from there.And the first record on the label called cranky was a double LP by LaBradford. I should also mention that the name Kranky was inspired by Joel's girlfriend at the time, Jennifer Jones. Greg Dunlap It's interesting, because you know, when I think back to that time, and when I first heard LaBradford after you released the record and saw them for the first time after you brought them to town, I mean, you're right. They were a very unique band. And it did sound very different. Like when you when you heard that, was that something that where you thought we want to do stuff more like this aesthetic? Or was it more just, let's start this and put this band out and see where it goes. Bruce Adams The latter, we really had no idea how far things would progress. We had no real aesthetic in mind. In a lot of ways, LaBradford sort of set that for us. But we were thinking about that. I mean, this was the era of the Sub Pop Singles Club of seven inch singles. We were aware that they were they were there's a lot of hay in the haystack, but not so many diamonds. And we thought we found a diamond. And people responded to what we were doing. We had sort of a Venn diagram of where individual tastes overlapped. And we began to find and communicate with bands that worked in that area. Were very fortunate we worked at a big distributor, Joel was the buyer. Things came across his desk all the time, he was in touch with a lot of people and we were able to sort of begin to build a roster around that around those opportunities. Greg Dunlap I think about the bands that you released the other bands that you started to release you know, Stars of the Lid and Godspeed and things like that and they are not the same but they all seem to mine the same territory in a way. Like did they come to you and say, Oh, here's a label that's doing stuff like us or did you find them? Bruce Adams I would say it was about 50/50. The first 10 records on the on the label. Jessamine, Bowery Electric, The Spiny Anteaters, those are all bands we discovered via Cargo and other areas. Other places we were looking around at the the first Stars of the Lid album was released on another record label and we instantly wanted to work with them. That took a while to come together due to some commitments on their part. Godspeed! You Black Emperor sent us a cassette of their debut album, they were just looking for a show in Chicago. In that case, we asked a very simple question. Do you have plans to put out a CD? And they said no. And we said, well, we'd like to do that. And they said, Okay. But in every, every instance is a little different than than another. But in general, things began to sort of show up along the spectrum, when I would call it the aesthetic spectrum of Kranky because on one side, we had purely atmospheric or ambient groups. On the other side, we had a band like Jessamine, who were highly rhythmic, but it was still we're working sort of a a cinematic or a mood centric aesthetic. So it developed over time. There were a couple instances where we hit contact with a couple of bands who were working outside that but circumstances were such that those connections never came to anything. Greg Dunlap So what year was that when you released the first LaBradford record Bruce Adams It was in November of 1993. Greg Dunlap Okay. So if we talk, so how, where and when it must have been soon after that I'm going to guess when you got introduced to the music of Low. Bruce Adams It was very soon after that. In a funny coincidence, LaBradford's first single was put up by a gentleman named Andrew Bojean, who lived in Virginia at the time. Still does. And shortly thereafter, within a year or so, Andrew contacted us and said, "Hey, I have this new band called Eggs I'm in and we're playing at the Empty Bottle in Chicago. You oughta come out and say hello. And make sure to arrive early, because this band called Low is opening. They're really great." We had taken out a couple of ads in Alan Sparhwak's fanzine. So we were aware of Alan. So we got to the Empty Bottle extra early. There's this trio on stage, playing very quietly, very intently, not a lot of people there, but we were knocked on our collective ass. They were just great. So we kept in touch with them from that point forward. And then an opportunity arose to work with them. Greg Dunlap It's funny, because I heard you know, a lot of people have been sort of replaying old interviews recently, and I heard an interview in which Mim said when they were looking to get out of their original label, Vernon Yard, she had thought about Kranky and she thought they weren't cool enough for the label. I thought that was hilarious, because I'm gonna guess it seems like one of those things where everybody thinks that everybody else is is is too awesome to be able to work with. Bruce Adams That's exactly it. We would go and see them playing whenever they were in Chicago. We would shoot the breeze. Number one, it's it's always nice to be thought of as cooler than everybody else. One of the amazing things about Mim and Alan and the band in general is that in this underground world of avant garde, experimentalism, etc, etc. They always appear to be peta-normally normal. Maybe that has something to do with it. It says a lot about Mim and her connection to the world in general and the way she carried herself and how she thought of herself. We, from our perspective, on the flip side, when we did a 12" EP with them, Songs For A Dead Pilot, we thought, Vernon Yard is collapsed. Here's an opportunity to work with this band. Surely a bigger indie rock label, your Matador, your Touch and Go, your Sub Pop, will snatch these guys up immediately. They were very successful. They toured the United States, they toured the UK, they're on a pretty prominent label. We thought this has got to be you know, as business school lingo goes low lying fruit. Somebody else is gonna make that decision. Every step of the way. After Songs For A Dead Pilot, nobody, nobody got in touch with them. So we did another one. Okay, now. So Touch and Go is gonna sign this band. Nothing. Second record, okay, it's been a great run. How fantastic is to work with these people? Oh, look, we're gonna put out their records in Japan. Surely, somebody ... I was in Seattle a couple of weeks ago for a book event and then put it out on Twitter, I said, it'd be great if somebody from Sub Pop comes by because I have some questions. Greg Dunlap It's funny, because they're the kind of band that and it was the same thing for me too. You know, our mutual friend Mike Greenlees took me to see them right after their first album came out at the Empty Bottle. And he was like, I love the record. And I think you should you should come with me to see this band. And it was the same thing. Like, instantly, instantly, blown away by this band. But it also seems like the kind of thing, and I think this is probably true for a lot of bands on your label, that not everybody got. But if you got it, you really, really got it. What do you think it was about them that inspired that intense reaction from their fan base. Bruce Adams Beauty. The juxtaposition of beauty and I'll say this, an element of Sonic ugliness. I use the word intention a lot with them because it was obviously music that had been thought out and prepared. They were so focused around the gaps in the music, the use of silence. Mim's drumming dovetailed everything together so nicely. I think that's what that's what got it. And just as a listener, you were waiting for everything. You know, whether it was a harmony, a single voice, a guitar solo or even a drumbeat and bassline. There were other there are other groups that had done that before. Galaxie 500 were working in that vein. Greg Dunlap Codeine Bruce Adams Yeah, Codeine. Low would do things like cover Joy Division, you'd be like, oh, yeah, sure. Allen's guitar playing especially as the years passed, started to reflect Crazy Horse and Neil Young without being derivative. Always pointing to things or nodding towards certain things, but always in their own style. I think that'd have a lot to do with it. And they were, like LaBradford, counter to the prevailing currents of the day. Greg Dunlap It always amazed me, I think you've mentioned this, how much tension they brought into music that was so slow and quiet. Because when I think of bands that had tension, you think of like a band like Gang of Four, right? Like where you feel like they've really liked stretched a rubber band that's about to break. Bruce Adams Tautness. Greg Dunlap Exactly. And, and this was like the polar opposite of that, but the exact same effect where it's just like, every, it's just like like your skin was electrified or something when you were listening to them, you know? Bruce Adams Yeah, like that. In the moment, when a rain storm is coming in, and you smell the rain, right, you smell the humidity, maybe there's a metal you feel your hairs rise up because of the anticipation of lightning. That's kind of what they trafficked in. Greg Dunlap I once wrote something, I was trying to describe a moment in a song by Sigur Ros and the only way I could find was the moment when the sun appears from behind a wall of clouds. And it was a lot like that, you know, just like those like those, like quiet explosions of emotion or feeling and you know, as a band, you kind of mentioned this too, they seem to be very real. I didn't know them, aside from a couple of, you know, awkward merch table encounters, but they and their songs were very real. And it felt like they were sharing their lives with us, you know, and when I think about, like, the passion of the fan base, and the way that they established that passiom, and I don't think this was intentional, I think they were just very much being their real authentic selves with their, with their people. And like, I think about this a lot, especially when during the pandemic, they were doing those Instagram lives on Fridays, right? And they would sit in their basement and they would play and you could hear them talking to their kids in the background. And then like, Alan would take you on a tour of his garden and stuff like this, or show you how they pack their vans for tours and stuff. And it was just like, they were just very real and human with other people. And I think I think there's a certain class of people that really response to that. Bruce Adams Yeah, I would, in my mind, I always compare them ... because they were a band with a couple, a married couple. So there's a certain dynamic and I always this is funny because they are polar opposites in some ways. I always compare them in my mind to the Laughing Hyenas and I was very close personally with John and Larissa in that band, they were a couple, there was a dynamic there. Right, it was apparent, it was in some ways tenser. It was in some ways ... there was a potential for negativity. But it was sort of at the center of the band when they played, you can see it, you could sense it. Same thing with Low. Different people, different vibes if I can use that word, but it was the centerpiece of the band, which is not to dismiss the contributions of the bass players in the group. All of whom you know, in various stages of the band and made a contribution and you know, as a bass guitarist does, underpins, and powers everything. But for a lot of people, Allen and Mimi were someone they could associate with, they get to associate with their relationships, it was different than a lot of what they were seeing in other indie rock bands, underground rock bands. A functioning marriage, children, a life that included the band, but more than the band, and people get associated with that. And there were various songs and things I was thinking about the song "2-Step". There are various things lyrically, and sonically they did that were touchstones that people could associate with in their lives. A little older, maybe, than bands that were that were quoting the usual indie rock reference points, right. The first record, "You Are My Sunshine". Like little bits of musical references that go back almost pre World War Two right? Little thinga you hear that you thought about as a kid or you heard in church or your parents playing old records and things like that? There was a warmth there that I think a lot of people identified with and took on. Greg Dunlap One of my favorite covers of theirs was their cover of John Denver's "Back Home Again", which is the same kind of ideal. This whole thing about, about, about home and family and about feeling like you have a place in the world, you know, and and that's the same thing. Bruce Adams Okay, it's time for a Steve Albini story. So I think it was Secret Name they did two records on Kranky that Steve Albini recorded. And I'm one of the sessions and one of these times Alan was talking to Steve about the band Bread. The 70's soft rock band Bread. I can easily imagine Alan listening to Bread, enjoying Bread, thinking about Bread and incorporating it into Low's music as an influence. Albini being a relatively open minded person apparently got a Bread cassette and when Shellac are on tour, he put it in the tour van, put in in the tape deck, and within about 10 seconds ripped it out and threw it out the window Greg Dunlap That sounds very believable. Bruce Adams True fact. Greg Dunlap I think another thing that was really special about the band, and you know, both of us discovered them through their live shows. They were a really special live band too. I mean, especially if they were in, you know, I saw them a couple of times opening for other bands that maybe wasn't as conducive and environment for them. But when they were in front of their fans who were respectful and understood them, those shows were like they were they were so spiritual, you know. And there was something really special about them, and they changed so much over the years. Like they had such an eclectic discography and their shows changed over the years, but, but in some ways, they didn't, you know? Like, Alan always had a way of like, interacting with the crowd. He would get to the end of a gig and start taking requests and stuff like that, you know, and kind of breaking down those barriers. I feel like they kind of they kind of started like, as they moved into their latest era, like having their live gigs be a little more controlled than that. But what do you what do you remember about going to see them and what made them such a special live act? Because one of the things that I'm always fascinated by is how I feel like when you go see a band, it's a very communal experience. You know, you are sharing this experience with a group of people and with a band and it all comes together in something that's amazing. And I really felt that at at their gigs. Bruce Adams So I'm thinking of three particular things. One, something I read in the wake of Mim's passing, various people reflecting upon the point in time when Low as a band would find their audience members shushing people who were talking. That was a transition point. I can think of three shows in particular. One, at some point Joel and I drove from Chicago to Beloit, Wisconsin to Beloit College to see them play a show, in a sort of the proto typical student bar, or Rathskeller, or union or something. Tiny little place, just a beautifuls how with a small group of people that were there to see Low and nobody else. That was very memorable. Sort of the flip side of that is around the same time, we saw them play at Logan Square Auditorium in Chicago, which is you must have seen shows there. A second second story of a big sort of office building. Pretty big sized room. Greg Dunlap That's about 1000 people, at least probably. Bruce Adams Not very good sonically, sort of a echo chamber. Very, very hard to get a good sense of the band there. But that was a very memorable show, because I thought the band met those challenges and went beyond them. And Alan really kicked out some amazing guitar solos. That was in the heart of his Neil Young obsession, really noisy and loud tangley solos and in the midst of these songs that were just as amazing juxtaposition. And then, just because it was recent, and because of events. In April, I went to see them play here in Urbana, at a place called the Channing Murray Foundation, which is the Unitarian chapel on campus. So they played in this beautiful church chapel. And they finished their set and they're playing music from the last two Sub Pop records. So there's a lot of fractured electronics, manipulation of everything, including vocals. And they finish their regular set. They come out for the encore. And Alan says, to the audience, "Do you want to hear the one that sounds like Roy Orbison? Or the one that sounds like Flipper?" And that was like such a beautiful summation of the territory they worked. Greg Dunlap Especially in recent years, yeah. Bruce Adams They could go from you know, Roy Orbison, which to me it was always the voice of yearning. A beautiful clear voice and yearning. To Flipper, who are the sound of a trudge. And they end up playing a song called "Canada". The crowd said flipper too, which really surprised me. It surprised me in one, that they would know the band. And two that they would say it. Because I've been to shows in Urbana Champaign, where kids don't recognize it, they're watching and all Venom cover. So louder music is not, for a lot of people here, is not on they're not on their menu, I guess. So that's those are three shows that really struck up struck to me. And then the, you know, the Urbana show, especially in the light of events afterwards, because it was their second to last show. So those were, those are three instances, in addition to the first performance that were just, you know, stick out in my memory. Greg Dunlap Yeah, I mean, I remember seeing them the last time I saw them was on their last tour before this, for Double Negative, they had unfortunately not gotten to the west coast on this tour. And I remember they play the song off of their first album called "Lazy". And it was amazing to me how they, at a point where their sound was as far removed from that record as you could possibly get, managed to take it and warp it and turn it into something that made sense. And it was really, really incredible. And in their recent records, I really felt were like that it was like, they had deconstructed everything that they were as a band and put it all back together in a way that was utterly and completely different, but still, unmistakeably them which is not, which is no small feat. Bruce Adams Name someone else who's done it, years into the lifetime of their band. I was thinking about this when Double Negative came out. And the only the only artists I could think of who had made such a similar change was Tom Waits when Frank's Wild Years came out. That was, you know, however many years in his career, that was the only artist that came to my mind. They picked up a new toolbox. Greg Dunlap Yeah. And, you know, I think that one of the things that's come out of Mim's passing is that when you connect with your people that deeply it those those losses hit so much harder. And like, again, I didn't know them personally. But having seen them and follow them and felt like I was because they invited us all into their lives. And now it feels like I you know, I remember posting to Twitter after I saw them on that Double Negative tour. It's like, they feel like family to me. And it's not, and it's not for any reason other than because they were so open hearted to let us into their lives. And now, when that loss happens, I feel I feel it very, in some ways selfishly because I was dying, I had tickets to see them for three shows on this tour, I was dying to see them that new record is so incredible. But also just like, feeling it personally in my gut, you know, and I felt like I've seen in the writing that I've seen and in the reaction of fans and their last that like this just seems to cut so much more deeply than so many other of the artists deaths that we've had to live through. We were talking before we recorded about how Terry Hall just died. And I think even back to like when David Bowie died, and it's like, nothing. I can't remember the last time I felt something like this. And I think that's the reason because because of who they were and who they tried to be as a band and now it's like that was amazing, but now it's also very painful. Bruce Adams Yeah, there were a couple of things that struck me number one, cancer. Right. And ovarian cancer a cancer affecting women. And that that was very, very powerful impact on me personally. My wife Amy, and I lost a dear friend to ovarian cancer so, and sort of two pronged in relatively short order. Your comment about David Bowie is interesting because David Bowie had such a similar impact on a lot of people's lives. Emotionally they connected with him, because of hos, for many reasons, not the least of which is his, his epitomizing a daring around issues of gender and sexuality that a lot of people associated with and hadn't seen among other performers. In Low's case in Mim's case, in a strange way. I think she had a similar influence on people, just in terms of what we were talking about earlier about family life normality. And the way they carried themselves you know, the sort of Midwestern low key slightly sardonic, not very imposing, confident people doing what they what they wanted to do. You know, it's, it's not as though they were pandering to people are saying, "Okay, this is a song about my daughter growing up and how I wish I could hold on to a little body" Greg Dunlap In metal, yes. Bruce Adams Yeah. In metal. That's what the song is about, and you hear it and you know, I can associate with that in a lot of ways. Whether it's a child, a sibling, a parent, a friend, that feeling of wanting time to stop. You can think of tons of songs like that. So again, I talked about "2-Step" has that sort of feeling to me. It's evocative of a lot of experiences and feelings if people want to have. Greg Dunlap "Point of Disgust" was another one that I always think of that way where it's just like, it's, it seems to be and, you know, most of their songs had like eight lines of lyrics, but they would, they would do and say so much in those eight lines, that it would just really really hit you, you know. Bruce Adams Or mystery, ya know, like, they recorded the record Trust. They were going on tour. At that point. I'd seen them a lot of times, and they were working on a song called "Silver Rider" which ended up on the first record they did for Sub Pop. So I'd heard a lot and it really struck me and it's it's a mystery song. It's almost mythic, you know. "Murderer" the same way. "Silver Rider", it's like this notion of someone out there something coming. Maybe, you know, something ominous, that you can't name you can't put your finger on. They were very good, lyrically and structurally pointing at something, but not being obvious about it and hitting you over the head with it. One of the things Joel and I insisted on when we were starting Kranky was we had what we called the Kranky Commandments. And they were mostly thou was shalt nots. And one of them was "Thou shalt not print song lyrics". Because we, as listeners growing up we'd like that notion of what's this about? I have no idea. I have my own mental image of these sounds and these lyrics bring up to me and Low were like that. You could take a lot out of the music, but it was a very individualized for me experience and I'm sure for a lot of other people and that's how they made their connection. An emotional connection. Greg Dunlap I mean, they did what three LPs and an EP for you at Kranky right? And I would say, you know, that was kind of a transitional period for them in a lot of ways like as they came out of their first three records and then especially with Things We Lost In The Fire and Trust started getting a little bit more, I don't want to say like a rock band feel, but you know, started bringing in actual distorted guitars and a little more straightforward songwriting which then probably continued more into the records they did at Sub Pop like Great Destroyer and stuff. But what was it like watching them sort of transform themselves slowly but surely as as they put out those records and what did you think about them as you started to hear them. Bruce Adams It was interesting for me because while they were doing this other bands on the label were developing their sound too. And so I always thought of Low in a group of bands ... LaBradford we're doing the same thing ... every record was a development on the previous record, every album introduced elements that weren't there in the previous one. And it was also experiential because LaBradford played some shows with Low at this point in time. They took Godspeed! You Black Emperor on tour with them, they sort of introduced Godspeed to the continent, so to speak. So I saw those three bands in particular as being linked in my mind and in my daily work my interactions with all of them. So it was just this feeling of oh, we're working with these people that are developing their sound and bringing new things all the time, but maintain these central identities. So that's sort of how I that's kind of how I looked at it. And then, you know, I had sort of a worm's eye view, right? So I was I was considering how they were doing their business, the relationship with the label, the touring arrangements, or the you know, my my interaction with them. "Hey, can you do this interview? Hey, can you show up at this radio station?" So the artistic development to me was interlocked with all those other things and then you know, to be honest after they left Kranky my wife and I listened to Great Destroyer a lot. We really liked that record. But I didn't really follow them that much on Sub Pop until Double Negative and I thought for from waht I heard that the sub pop records in between the Great destroyer and Double Negative was they were sort of coalescing more into a standard indie rock band. Then they blew that all up. Greg Dunlap Yeah, I mean, I think I would agree that I loved Great Destroyer I really actually love Drums and Guns too. But C'Mon and Invisible Way I definitely felt were much more standard. Like I thought this was you know, they seem to be developing into a groove. And it was a good groove and a groove I liked but you know. You started to see the glimmers of what was to come in Ones and Sixes, but Double Negative and Hey What? were just like, so, they were just such statements. You know? Bruce Adams It was like, the funny thing about that was if I was writing a cliched rock music movie, it would be like Mim and Alan go to Berlin and live in a bunker, like a Bowie/Eno thing you know. We're not listening to indie rock bands over here. Introduce me to techno that's all I've been listening to. Greg Dunlap We talked earlier about how they like deconstructed them selves and they kept that heart in it. Like I read an interview with their producer BJ Burton. And he pointed out that there are no drums or bass on Hey What other than the last song. It's like the entire album is all distorted guitar, and you hear a song like "Days Like These", which is just like, like, you know, it's very simple, but it is also extremely loud and in your face and torn apart. But the heart of that song lyrically is just everything they've always been. Bruce Adams Alan singing a fetching melody, there's no other way in my mind to describe it. Yeah, it's a fetching melody. It's just all this stuff going around it, but you wait for those voices to come back through the whole song. Greg Dunlap Yeah, "More" is another song that's like that, where it's just like, you could not get more industrial musically, and you could not cut through it more with the voice of an angel than you did. And, and that that contrast, I think is part of what really made it work. Bruce Adams Right. And that element that, you know, you almost knew, as a matter of faith was going to show up. Which, you know, for someone like me, who was like, we recently, were having our bathrooms, renovated. And it was pounding, things being torn apart, when the guys were getting in the house is "I'm sorry, is this really loud to you?" And I said, "No, buddy, that's 80% of my record collection." You know, so for me, all those elements are welcome, right there. It can see oh, you're doing this like this guy? Does Mandy start, okay, I see that. A little Test Department in there. That's cool. But for people that are not, you know, putting their head in a Boeing 747 engine for five years for fun, those things might be a little alienating, or little disturbing, but then the voices come back. And that's the element there. So there's a little something for everyone. Greg Dunlap You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I always felt like, in some ways, I mean, obviously, Low were very much a band from Duluth, but I always felt like, in some ways, with Kranky and with them recording with Steve and coming through town constantly, you know, on tour being so close, like, it felt to me at least, like Chicago was a little bit of a second home for them. Bruce Adams Oh, yeah. You know, the first EP they did for Kranky had a song "Hey Chicago". Greg Dunlap Right. And, you know, I've always found it interesting that cities can, Chicago as an Independent Music City has, you know, had different phases, but it seemed like there's always something really cool going on there. And you look back to the Wax Trax era, or Touch & Go or Kranky, or you know, even back into like the blues era and stuff, and Drag City and on and on. And, like what do you think it is about Chicago as a city that has attracted that sort of music community to it and brought bands and like, those unique those unique scenes together? Bruce Adams I mean, it's part of it has to do with geography and physicality. The transportation of the fact that Louis Armstrong can take a train up from New Orleans and find a time and place in Chicago to play. Likewise, Chess era blues ... I've been doing this book tour around places and went to Austin, Texas and told people believe it or not, there was a time when people move from Austin to Chicago. And not vice versa. It's a capital of the Midwest. So almost by nature, whether people from the suburbs of Chicago or Michigan or Ohio or Indiana, Iowa, they come to the Have a wall starts coming to Chicago to pursue their careers, etc, That's got something to do with it. Unlike New York or Los Angeles, it's not a national media hub. So people can be musically ambitious, but not career ambitious. In compare, New York has sort of a bucket of crabs feeling to it, sometimes everybody's reaching up to get that national attention and pulling down people that are in front of them, or hierarchy, hierarchies develop more easily. Those don't seem to develop in Chicago, there's room for people to do things. And there's room for people to collaborate and do things together. So you know, I think that has a lot to do with it. And then I think, sometimes I think when people talk about geographic or cultural differences in the United States, they get something wrong. They use the term Midwest, and I feel like you should use Great Lakes basin. The big cities along the Great Lakes, the idea that they're all linked together by these lakes, congress flows across them. Resources flow across them. You know, for me, making the imaginary leap from looking at Lake Michigan looking from Chicago, to looking at Lake Superior from Duluth is not such a massive leap. There's a lot in common I feel, environmentally almost. Cold helps. To imagine those things you know, little things like that. But Chicago is Chicago is a very unique city. There's a lot going on there all the time. For better or for worse. You know, all the other usual cliches apply but the the Nelson Algren story about Chicago being a beautiful woman with a broken nose. I think that covers it. Greg Dunlap Yeah, yeah, I like that a lot. Bruce Adams And the last thing I was gonna say is New York, Los Angeles, they're cities that celebrate themselves. Right. Chicago, a lot of Midwestern cities, not so much like that. It's more about it's more about people. Greg Dunlap You've mentioned this book that you've written. Can you tell us about that and where people can find out more? Bruce Adams Sure. The name of the book is You're With Stupid: Kranky, Chicago, and the Reinvention of Indie Music. It's published by the University of Texas Press and it came out November of 2022. You can find it in all the places good books are sold. https://utpress.utexasedu is the URL of the website. You can order it direct from them. Or your nearest independent bookstore. Greg Dunlap I know you've been on tour doing some readings and stuff. How has that gone? And how has the reception been? I know this is a new experience for you a bit. Bruce Adams Yeah, it's funny I tell all my musician friends that I intellectually understood all the challenges they go through. But now it's personal. Oh, I've been to Austin, Texas, Chicago two times. Seattle, and Los Angeles. On the way between Seattle and Los Angeles, I stopped off in Portland. Did communion with my cranky colleague, Joel Loeschke. And I asked him, "How do bands do this? How do they do it?" And he says, "They're younger." Greg Dunlap That's true. Yep. Bruce Adams So it's been a great experience. I've run into a lot of people I've known for years, people I only dealt with remotely via the phone or by email. So it's been a really great experience for me. And it's, the response to the book has been very positive. I'm grateful for the opportunity to to put out a book to begin with. And I'm profoundly grateful for the response I've gotten from people all over the world. Greg Dunlap Well, I know that I know that for me, it's been great to read because, I feel like everybody who lives through formative years, that are influential on them probably feels this way. But I felt like that time in Chicago was very special to me, and was very special for a lot of reasons. Not just for Kranky, but for a lot of the other music stuff that was happening in town. You know, Touch & Go was also at the top of their game and bands like The Jesus Lizard and Tar were out and killing it in Chicago. Shellac and stuf.f And I just felt like that was a really amazing time to be there. And it's great that there's, you know, somebody out there documenting their part of it. Bruce Adams Well, it was necessary. It was necessary to do. The history has to be recorded and documented for people. I also want to make it very clear that this entire project was not some sort of nostalgic, "Hey, kids, you missed the best years of human existence." The book is a love letter to the city. It's a description of my time living there and whatever I did in music and what was happening around me. But I think it also hopefully provides some inspiration for people to keep to keep things going and to take creative life by the reins and pursue it. And, you know, Chicago is still an amazing music city. There's still amazing things happening. And I wanted the book to be infused with that, rather than than to be you know what I heard when I was young, which was more or less "If you weren't at Woodstock. You haven't lived." Greg Dunlap Yes. Well, I think you succeeded. Bruce Adams Thank you. Greg Dunlap Well, I, you know, I told you, as we were getting ready for this interview, that I was preparing to be very sad, but I don't, I don't really feel that way. You know, it's sad that this has happened. But I feel very lucky to have had this band in my life. And, and to have had Kranky in my life, which was a label that I dearly loved for a long time, too. And I loved the work that you and Joel did as a part of it. So I really appreciate you coming on and talking to me today. Bruce Adams Thanks. You know, we've known each other for a long time now, and we've seen things you know, and had these experiences that have enriched our lives. And these people that we come across. You know, so I think about mim and I think about the phrase "May her memory be a blessing" and it has been and that's how I'm gonna continue to think about it. Greg Dunlap I completely agree. So, yeah, thanks for coming. Bruce Adams You betcha anytime.