Greg Dunlap  0:02  
Our guest today is Matt Scott. Matt is the founder of Let's Care, an organization where he passes the mic to those who often go unheard in social change, in part through his new film, 20s & Change in San Francisco. Matt's also the manager of storytelling and engagement at the world's leading climate solutions resource Project Drawdown. And was a community lead for the world's largest global hackathon. NASA's Space Apps Challenge. So welcome to the podcast Matt.

Matt Scott  0:28  
Thank you for having me, Greg. It's good to get to be in touch and be part of what you're creating with This Must Be The Place. This is the place for me right now. So I'm excited to be here.

Greg Dunlap  0:39  
Thanks. It's great to have you. So why don't you kind of tell me, you know, you've had a lot of positions and involvement in community management in your career? And why don't you kind of just tell me how you got into it, you know, like, what's your, what's your origin origin story with this work?

Matt Scott  0:56  
Yeah, I sort of feel like I fell into community management. I'm not sure if it's like that for most people. 

Greg Dunlap  1:02  
That's not common at all! No, its completely common.

Matt Scott  1:06  
Yeah, and I think what's what's so interesting is sort of just this realization that I have now, which is how important community is to accomplish anything, but in particular, when it comes to making an impact. And so, in college, I would really say that was my first experience with community management. I was way too involved on campus at George Washington University doing like a billion different things beyond going to class. And, you know, I was, by my senior year leading different student organizations. So one of them was, was students against sexual assault and working with that community, and other was in my role as the vice president of the residence hall Association. And so in these different ways, even though I didn't know the term community management, I found that the way that I was engaging with other students and with the administrators, that was all part of community management, but I think the place where I actually discovered the term community management was with the NASA Space Apps Challenge, and with my work at the innovation agency, Second Muse were I started in April 2016. And I remember a few weeks before that before I started and and while they were going through the final interview process, I was asked about my experience with community management. And I didn't really know if I was sure what that meant. Exactly. And, and I wonder if, if that's the case for most folks, again, to who kind of got started with the term but, you know, I, I kind of said, you know, I've had experience, working with people, interacting with them, showcasing their stories, responding to their needs in different ways. And really being sure that the individual is represented in this bigger group that we're forming, because I think that's really critical. And they said, Great, that sounds good. And over the next five years, I would get a ton of experience firsthand with community management through Space Apps. So yeah, I tripped and fell right into it. But I'm so glad I did.

Greg Dunlap  3:20  
It's interesting, you say that, like you had a lot of you had a lot of experience in community management that you didn't realize at the time. And I think that's pretty common for people. Like I think back to my own experience. And like when I was in college, I spent a lot of time, I was heavily involved in the punk rock scene in Illinois, and I spent a lot of time like booking shows and putting together events, you know, bringing bands to town and that sort of thing. And it was very similar. It was my way to get involved and to share, you know, what I loved with other people. And I never thought of it that way. I remember my mom told me that, you know, I was an entrepreneur, and I just never thought of it. I never thought of it that way. But it really it's really true. Like a lot of those experiences, especially for those of us who get involved in a certain community or organization or something like that is really is really the seed for this kind of work.

Matt Scott  4:13  
Totally, totally. And it's, you know, it's powerful again, because when I look at the social impact field, that's where most of what I do, if not all of what I do kind of lives within that bubble and right, you know, when it comes to just building it, building impact, whatever that looks like, whether it is supporting people in implementing climate solutions, or in interviewing people and showcasing their stories like I'm doing through Let's Care. It's it's really interesting to see that community and the perspectives and needs and values of the individual are so important. And actually, I mean, going back a little bit more to like pinpoint where I started with community building for me You know, I, I mentioned my student organization involvement, but I was studying business and I was studying marketing more specifically within business on campus. And I end up using that degree a lot in the work that I do. And so what I think was so interesting, there is just the the the ways that marketing even overlaps with community management. So I'm sure we could probably go through every profession and find how it overlaps with community management. But yeah, you're making all these lightbulbs go off for me as I, as I realized my connections with this thing that's been such a huge part of my life over the last several years.

Greg Dunlap  5:40  
And it's interesting, because actually, I feel like marketing is just discovering that in the last couple of years, especially with COVID, like, like community is such a buzzword in the business world right now. And there's like all of these, like, independent consulting agencies and organizations that are about how your business can build community and all of that. So I think I think that's absolutely appropriate. And, and a big topic of conversation right now.

Matt Scott  6:05  
Yeah, totally. And it, it is a buzzword, right. But I yeah, I think that, you know, there's definitely a difference between really effective communities and this need to create a community. And one thing I'll I'll admit, is that, you know, with, with the NASA Space Apps Challenge, that is absolutely a community, it continues to be a community, and I've moved on from that work in the last several months. But, you know, with what I'm doing with Lets Care, while I've gone out and connected with different changemakers, I've also been really thoughtful about realizing like, this isn't yet a community but I want to create a community at some point. And the same goes for Project Drawdown, but it's not yet a community. And so I have this perspective of seeing, like, what is really community versus what or what's a community that comes through in, you know, in name only, and that's, I think, a helpful perspective to making sure that the communities that I'm part of are, are really effective, and, you know, therefore, all members of the community to benefit from.

Greg Dunlap  7:11  
Yeah, and I'm sure we could do an entire podcast about like, you know, creating intentional communities that that are, like, you know, fake or, you know, are like really driven by, you know, monetizing your users and stuff like that, and trying to make them, you know, feel honest and intentional. But that's a whole other podcast.

Matt Scott  7:31  
I'll be back for it. Don't worry. 

Greg Dunlap  7:33  
Okay, cool. I'll keep it in mind. So your first, you know, your first, you know, actual not real? Well, let's just say, you know, you kind of started your career in community management at NASA, on the Space Apps Challenge. And that was a pretty, it seems like a pretty massive thing, like I was it like 100,000 people came through that organization over the years that you were on it. Why don't you tell us a little bit about that. And like how you approached it because it seems like such a big thing, especially as like a first, you know, real gig and community management, you know?

Matt Scott  8:13  
Yeah. And I, and I think what's, what was really helpful for me going into that role, where I started in 2016, is that, before that, I had a couple of years, where I was really, truly focused on on social media management and interacting with people in that way, and also having some really sustained relationships with community members through that work that I was doing. So before Space Apps, I was working on a project called Digital Learning Day, which was basically a community of a bunch of teachers who were bringing technology into their classrooms. And so when I got involved with the the NASA Space Apps Challenge work, I already had that context and grounding and understanding of the world that it was happening in. I mean, I'd never actually participated in a hackathon before that. And for those who don't know, a hackathon is basically just a problem solving event where people have different skill sets. So definitely people with data skills and tech skills and scientific skills, but also the artists, the students, the storytellers come together to create things that respond to the quote unquote, challenges that NASA identify as and create prototype solutions out of that. And so I had that context and understanding and when I joined Space Apps in 2016, it was a community of about 160 events worldwide in 60 countries. And what I would find over the next four and a half years really was that we would grow and we would double the size of the community. And we went from actually being in 75 plus countries or about 80 countries. To then because of COVID, being in this, you know, 150 plus countries and engaging more and more people. And so, you know, something that maybe this is just my perspective being so deep in it. But I think a lot of people look at Space Apps and even look at the numbers and see, like, more than 100,000 people in 150 plus countries over over about five years. And don't necessarily think about the team that's behind that. And something that I found is that, and this might sound ridiculous to folks, but it didn't Space Apps and didn't really feel like as big of an undertaking as it was. And I think that's in large part because of effective community management, which I am not going to take credit for I I really started doing the community management on top of about five or six years, you know, the program began in 20, in 2012. So I had that groundwork to work with. And there were a lot of great process documents, there were a lot of great resources for community members. And there were a lot of processes in terms of training people. So while I know a lot of people discovered zoom early last year, with the start of the global pandemic, I and the Space Apps team had been using zoom way before that. And I remember, I was introduced to zoom really, through Space Apps in 2016. And so, you know, I think that the thing that makes this global community which again, at the time was about 160 volunteers around the world in 60 plus countries effective is that it was the community members, I should say, were equipped with resources that we provided, were equipped with these community calls, that would be really helpful. And were equipped with just other information so that not every single person needed, you know, a call to talk with them about how to run their local hackathon event. Not everyone needed to be in touch constantly. And then you also had people who had been hosting these events since the very beginning, if not from a couple of years before. And so then they were able to help other community members host their events. And with all of this it, you know, this global hackathon becomes a lot smaller when you have resources in place when you have volunteer community members willing to support other volunteers who are new in getting started. And, you know, I, I would not say that it's a small thing to accomplish. But I think when you when you have a lot of the pieces in place in the effective way, it makes something like Space Apps a lot more doable for any community.

Greg Dunlap  12:59  
Yeah, it's, it seems like, you know, you I think one of the really effective tools of communication, community management is delegation, you know, and it seems like you had an organization that was well set up to take advantage of that, like, it's not like you were directly managing all of the 100,000 participants and things you had, you had a bunch of people in their local areas who took care of their groups, and you kind of sort of, were able to run the overarching program and stuff like that, like, like there was actually a formal structure that you make good use of.

Matt Scott  13:33  
Exactly. And and I think the other point, the thing that I think about a lot, and, again, maybe this is oversimplifying the approach to community management, but honestly, this has guided this guided me for years in leading the Space Apps program, where I think so much of community management is about questions, and it's about proactively answering questions that will come up. So in my first year as community manager, I am sure that I was overwhelmed by all of the questions coming in all the questions that we we had coming in that didn't already have answers in the other resources. And so each and every year, I was able to think, Okay, how do we proactively address the questions that will come up? Because something that I found, and this was especially the case last year with COVID, was that when we didn't take steps, or when I didn't take steps to proactively address questions in advance, then that would mean that I get a lot more emails and a lot more questions about certain things. And, you know, on the flip side of that, I also found that when I would get questions on a certain topic, like repeat questions on how to, you know, engage with Space Apps virtually for instance, and some of the newest nuances of that, that, to me that pointed out That there was a gap in the resources and the context that I was providing to folks. And actually, last year in 2020, was interesting because we had the Space Apps COVID-19 challenge, which happened in May, and then later had the annual Space Apps hackathon happen for the first time completely, virtually in October. And so what that actually really made clear to me is that where there were gaps for this first ever COVID-19 challenge, which we kind of threw together over the course of two months, we were able to really effectively fill those gaps for October, and it led to less questions and less stress. And as you know, as as much as you could lessen stress in a COVID environment. You know, it led to that for not only me as a community manager and storyteller, but also for our global organizing team overall. And, of course, for our volunteers and broader community. So questions are kind of the secret to community management. If I had to point to one thing again, sorry, if I, if I am completely slapping people in the face with with this. But the idea, you know, to me of questions being so pivotal has been a big guiding light for me in terms of doing this work, and really staying on top of what the community needs.

Greg Dunlap  16:24  
Now, and I liked what you said about being proactive, too, because I feel like a lot of community managers are very reactive, right things happen in their community, and they have to figure out what they're doing, as opposed to them thinking what could happen in my community? And how am I going to handle it when it's happening? And when it happens? And that's like a, that's like a big difference in approach that can really impact a lot of things.

Matt Scott  16:45  
Yeah. And I would actually add that I was just thinking about this the other day that with something that is as large as Space Apps. So you know, while there are these local leads this community of volunteers all over the world doing what they're doing. They have questions, which I which I've mentioned, but also the broader community of participants have asked questions. And so the way that we're set up, I mean, the local leads, could feel those questions, if you equip them with the answers to the questions that participants would be asking, which is important step. But also, these participants could have questions that come up. And so the, you know, the big thing that I realized is that you with a community that large will get a ton of questions, and you really can't be reactive, with every single question or every single need, because you just don't have enough time. I mean, with the Space Apps program, just to give you an idea, most of the time that I was on the program, there was about a core team, believe it or not have, like four of us working on Space Apps. And then last year with with just COVID, and the growth of the program, it grew to more like 10 of us on the global organizing team overall, off to different degrees, you know, some full time like I was full time on the program, others part time or contributing a little bit of time. But I mentioned that to say that those constraints. And this is something I've heard a lot, you know, constraints make you have to be you have to be creative when you have constraints, because you have to figure it out. And those constraints really make you not only creative, but selective about the things that you do. Like you can't just respond to everything and do everything you have to say, Well wait, I have to prioritize and figure out is this something that we're doing today? Is it something we're doing tomorrow or next week? Is it something we're doing next year for the program, and I think that that's actually been really helpful for, you know, for me and our team just to realize that, it you don't need to respond to every single need to have a community that's going to grow and thrive.

Greg Dunlap  18:59  
I think that's absolutely true. And, you know, we, I feel I get a lot of a lot of, you know, you talk about constraints and in needing to acknowledge your limitations and work within them. And I feel like that's true of God. I feel like that's true of almost anything, you know, it's like, it's like, you see so many industries where unlimited resources don't result in a in a better thing for people, you know, right.

Matt Scott  19:27  
Yeah. And I, you know, that's something that I've come to appreciate because most of my career, I've called it lightweight storytelling. You know, most of my work is as a quote unquote, social impact storyteller. And so, when I'm in situations where I'm the only, like, I am the storytelling team, or it's me and one other person is the storytelling team. You know, I think one thing that's great is that you that like most organizations, or people don't have experience With that, and so there's really some room to define what that looks like. But the beautiful thing is, I found that you could tell these stories and incorporate storytelling into really global programs and initiatives with a team of one or two people really effectively if you figure out how to target your time, where, where and how it needs to be targeted for to reach your goals. So yeah, that's everything you said is spot on.

Greg Dunlap  20:30  
You bring up storytelling, and one of the things that I've sort of noticed in the different roles that you've had, is that storytelling is a big part of what you do, and how you, you know, communicate with and about your the communities that you've worked with, you know, how did you start realizing that storytelling was something that you wanted to do and get started actually doing it?

Matt Scott  20:54  
Yeah, it's, it's interesting. So I think the first time that I really grasp the power of storytelling was when I was growing up, my dad around the time that I was 12, started a home health care business. And you know, what his business did was that it basically just paired, paired senior citizens living at home who were looking for service with caregivers who would go into the homes or home health care facilities, or assisted living facilities. And so the thing that was interesting as my dad started that this, and again, I was like, 12, or 13, hanging around the business spending my summers working there as he was getting started. And I realized that when my dad would talk about how, you know, their home healthcare business, this is what they do, this is the value they provide, that was sure that was, like good for people. But when my dad would talk about his own personal story, and what brought him to the work, I, you know, in a very, I would say, and I've never thought about this like, but in really valuable formative way, I was able to just kind of see people's reactions, because for my dad, again, around the time that I was, was 12, my my grandmother, his mother passed away, and she had a long battle with Alzheimer's. And, you know, that's ultimately what took her life. And so, you know, when he would talk about the, the influence that the care that she received from a caregiver named Patty, being the thing that drove him to start his business, I saw people who were brought to tears with that, and he wasn't trying to do that my dad was just sharing his story. And it's funny, because even at that time, in my early teen years, I kind of would push him to tell more of that story, because I saw how impactful and meaningful it was. And also, it just felt good to, to see him sort of glow in some ways when he would share that story. And, and so, you know, while my dad passed away, in 2017, my mom and sister continue to share in to run that business and share that story with the world. And, you know, it continually reminds me that it's so important to share who we are and where we're coming from with with the world. And, you know, that was really the first experience I had with with storytelling realizing its power, but I had that reaffirmed when I was in college and involved in students against sexual assault in particular. And I realized that statistics and kind of hitting people over the head with statistics, while it's important that people know the severity of the problem, it wasn't the thing that was getting through to, to people and through to the fraternities on campus, and people in the, on the sports teams in the athletics department, either. And so we really had to think how do you tell this story in a way that people feel empowered to do something? How do you tell this story in a way that's really more human than the statistics, and that's an approach that I bring to my work to this day.

Greg Dunlap  24:14  
It's much more of a sort of micro level, because like we talked, you can you can look at a community as a group of people in aggregate, or you can look at their individual stories. And you know, that's sort of the macro and micro level, and it's much more of a micro level of bringing those stories out. Rather than looking at things in aggregate. It seems like

Matt Scott  24:36  
Yeah, and I actually think that that's the part that a lot of people miss. I was giving a talk pretty recently, I think a couple weeks ago, actually. And what I was pointing out and it was just a side point to to the broader point that I was making about the value of storytelling but one thing that I was saying to The group was, you know, in order to be an effective storyteller, and in order to tell effective stories, you need to value people's perspectives, first and foremost. And you need to value the perspectives of the individuals. And, you know, I didn't dwell on that for too long. But one of the things that I kind of post to the group for them to think about is, do you really want to know the perspectives and stories of your community? Do you really value those, those things, and I, you know, I didn't know either way. But one thing that I have kind of understood is that a lot of people, a lot of organizations, to your point about the word community as a buzzword, for example, storytelling is also a buzzword for a lot of a lot of communities, a lot of organizations nowadays, and I think that this the word storytelling has has a lot of different meanings for different folks. For me, it's about really humanizing whatever it is that we're talking about, and keeping in mind the individual perspectives. I'm very curious about those perspectives to the point that, like, in 2017, when I started Lets Care, it was just me through zoom, going to interviewing people and talking with changemakers, and learning their stories, and I didn't really know them beforehand. But I I don't I'm not sure that everyone's like, as curious about other people's stories, and that's okay. But I think if you're aiming to effectively tell stories, you really need to value what each individual brings, because that's the authentic story. And that's the perspective that often goes on heard. And, and you know, when we're able to listen to those individuals and highlight those individual perspectives, oftentimes they speak for the statistics and for the broader trends. Like that's, that's the thing I love about stories is that sure, like one individual story doesn't necessarily tell you everything you need to know about the community. But it could actually be pretty representative for a lot of the things that the statistics and trends and bigger surveys will tell you about a community and that's something I love because I'm I've never been a big statistics or numbers person personally. And so for me, and people like me, the stories are what really break through and resume.

Greg Dunlap  27:30  
It seems like it could be a really good tool for like, growing communities too. There was there was something I was watching, I was watching the trailer for 20s & Change before this, and and somebody said, you know, you can't be what you can't see. Yeah. You know, tell, you know, and and, you know, that's I think that's a big issues when we talk about, you know, diversity in the modern age. And, you know, we talk about people who, who never saw people like themselves on TVs or not, not like themselves telling stories. And I know, you've taken a lot of effort to tell very diverse stories from diverse people. And, and from a wide variety of backgrounds. And it seems like, you know, getting those stories out to people who don't hear their own stories brings them in a way that probably no other tool really could.

Matt Scott  28:21  
Yeah, and and, you know, it's it's so interesting to hear you say that, because even listening to it, honestly, I get a little choked up thinking about it. Because for me personally, like it's, I mean, like, I think the work that I'm doing to, as I say, pass the mic to those who often go unheard to change makers who often go unheard. I think it's important. But the big reason I think it's important is because as a young person, as a black person, as a queer person, I've often felt like I don't belong in those rooms in those spaces. And so I think that that has given me the superpower as a community manager, but as a storyteller also, to see these stories that are often overlooked or perspectives that are often overlooked into to be really, like hyper sensitive to those. And so when you talk about that approach, like everything you're saying about really helping people see themselves and you you reference the quote from 20s & Change and actually, you know, I'm sure we've so many of us have heard this quote, a lot of places. In 20s & Change it was someone named Arturo Elizondo, who mentioned it, but, you know, you can't be what you can't see. And from the start of my time on Space Apps in 2016, I, you know, I really, at first was focused on, like, let's highlight women in this space, because we were talking about the hackathon world, the tech world, the data science, and you know, this More this more technical space where women are really underrepresented. I mean, I know at that time in particular, only about 12% of computer science majors in the US, at least were women. And I know that numbers going back up, it was higher in the 80s or so. And then it dipped down again. And now it's, it's picking back up a bit. But, you know, I, I kind of took on that work to focus on highlighting the voices that we didn't see, in part because my, my older sister, Lindsay was, and still is very involved in the tech space. And her story really stuck out with me, it stuck out to me, because not only is she like a black woman in the tech space, but also, you know, she she studied computer science in college and graduated. And rather than going into the computer science field in tech, in a traditional technical job, she actually really cared about modeling and acting she she also majored in, in theater. And so she actually ended up going on to become a model and, and having a really great career doing that. And the thing that kind of came up out of all of that was that I and so many other people are able to see, wow, we don't normally see women as belonging in this space. And we also don't see women who are beautiful as belong in this space. And that really got the wheels turning for me, again, at this formative time in my career to think about, like, Okay, what are some of the issues that we're up against when we're telling these stories, because I could go into a room, anyone could go into a room and focus on just telling stories and representing who's there. But in order to get new people in a room and build a community, it's like you were saying, Greg, you need to really represent voices that aren't there so that they can see that they belong. And so my, you know, one story that I think about a lot or one person I think about a lot. Her name is Medina and I met her at my very first Space Apps event in 2016. And Medina, who was one of the most quiet people that day was actually someone who was introduced to me by one of the local Space Apps NYC Team members, Dominic and I sat there with Medina talking, not recording anything, but just talking for like 30 minutes about her her story. And it turns out, she was a at the time 46 year old mother of two, who was a refugee to the US. And she moved to the US about 10 years before spent one year working at the Library of Congress, and then had both of her kids and so she was a stay at home mom, and she was joining Space Apps, because she saw as an opportunity to not only kind of really start her career After about a decade off of that, but also she saw it as an opportunity to teach her kids that technology can be used for good and I'll that video, you know, the way that that's captured is only about 30 or 45 seconds. But for me, it's so powerful because it's a reminder that like each of these individual stories really have the power to get through to different groups that might not see themselves being involved in and Medina story reminds me of that. So there's so much so much that comes to mind when I think of storytime. But yeah, it is really a powerful tool to help people see themselves and see that this at least signal to them really intentionally that that they belong in a space.

Greg Dunlap  33:49  
I think I mean it correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you've done most of your storytelling through film and video, are you do you have like any experience as a filmmaker? Is that something that you learned along the way? Like, how did you put all that together?

Matt Scott  34:05  
So my start of my career, when I was doing social media management. I mean, the thing that I've learned and you know, it's still true to this day is that pictures video are the most engaging forms of content. And so I was able to take that, that understanding which comes from a lot of data and research and insight from the digital world, and then apply that to how I approach things. And so even from 2014 when I was starting my career, it was I was really focused on Okay, let's ask these community members to just take out their phone and it's kind of funny to think back to because, like now we know how great an iPhone or a smartphone is in terms of quality. Not as great In 2014, I think I probably had a smartphone for a couple years, but the smartphone really did create, you know, this opportunity for people to make these pretty high quality videos and to share their perspectives in ways that were actually really compelling and accessible with folks. And so that's where the video started for me, and it was all really learning along the way. So it starts with asking people to make videos, but then you're thinking, how could I edit these videos together in some way, or maybe I could clip this video to make it even shorter. Or maybe I can string these together in, in a series to tell a story. And, you know, it's, it's funny to think about because now, like, just in May of this year, I released the 20s & Change San Francisco film, and that was entirely a result of learning along the way, which kind of blows my mind that like a film. And, you know, just recently, I learned that that 20s & Change San Francisco is being recognized at the San Francisco Black Film Festival this year. But to learn that a film that I could make based on just learning along the way, could actually be a legitimate film that's recognized by by people. And so, you know, it's, it's, it's just like, constantly, and it's, I laughed thinking about this, but it's constantly like taking those moments to, like, open up at first for me, it was iMovie and explore with that, and then realizing like, okay, maybe I should learn to use Adobe Premiere and Final Cut Pro. Now, I think the thing I realized is that while I could totally still edit that, you know, it's so helpful to have a team and have people you can reach out to and so I've worked with, like in the case of 20s & Change San Francisco, a video editor on a bunch of it, at least in finishing the project. But yeah, you I think that's, again, the the spirit of even working with communities, and then storytelling, where you kind of just need to adapt to what the need is of the moment. And I know a ton of storytellers who are kind of like these Swiss Army knives of storytelling, I haven't thought about that analogy too much. But, you know, I've met a lot of them who have all of these different skills. And I think that that's, that's a you know, what we really need to do, because there is no one size fits all approach for the stories we tell. The video, I think, as we all, you know, could attest personally is just so compelling and digestible. And it helps humanize things more than text or even audio alone at times can do.

Greg Dunlap  37:45  
It's so interesting. I don't know, this might be a little bit of a digression. But like I went to college for photography, and I'm a Gen X er, right. So that was in the days before digital, and I dabbled a little in filmmaking back then. And it's like, I when I think of filmmaking, I think of it as this like, mystical thing. That takes such special specialized skill and specialized equipment to do and I've watched the world, you know, go by since then, and I realized that it's become much more accessible now. But you're right, you know, we're all walking around with HD video cameras in our pockets at this point. And, and the tools to, you know, do basic, you know, nonlinear filmmaking come bundled free on every computer we buy, and it's just, it's interesting to hear how like, that accessibility that has come with technology has turned into something that like real people can use to tell stories, you know,

Matt Scott  38:45  
yeah, and I think to kind of take that even a step further. It's it's interesting because you look at YouTube, for example, and sure for for every, like really well done video or really successful video that is seen by a lot of people because there's definitely a difference between a well done video and a video that kind of goes quote unquote, viral you also i'm sure have, you know, I don't even I would guess hundreds and hundreds of videos that are either, you know, not well made, I would say the same for thinking about zoom and how we engage people over zoom there are you know, in this last year in particular, where most of us have have gone virtual in some way, shape or form. There's this you know, there there are some really great virtual events. And I was just talking with a group about this the other day, so it's top of mind, but then they're also and some not so great ones or ones I can use ones that can use room room for improvement. Yeah, just because you know, you there's a difference between opening your your phone up for instance, and recording something and then kind of posting it versus having a thoughtful approach to it. And I think the thing that's helped me over just this time and in doing this different types of video work, but in storytelling in general, has been just the organizations that I've worked with. So like one of the first organizations that I was doing some work with, I mentioned Digital Learning Day as one, but Honda Government Relations was one of my first clients. And so there's like a certain standard that they have that doesn't that, you know, I don't think that they necessarily knew what story should look like. But I think they had an idea of what quality they would need as a brand. And I've been really, really, I've said lucky in the past, but you know, really thankful, just grateful for the opportunity to not only work with NASA, but also with other brands involving storytelling, like the USAID program, or Nike or Walmart. And so this has really helped me figure out like, Okay, if I'm going to tell a story, I have to figure out how to do it in a way where, like, if I'm going live on Facebook, where it's not like shaky camera, in my hand, because that doesn't like live up to the quality of the client expects, and, you know, just doing that, but then also, being a student of this story, storytelling game, if you will, has been really helpful. Because, you know, you, and I'm sure so much of this applies to community management. Also, it's like, when you really take time to read or watch or consume what other really great storytellers or community managers are, are doing, it helps you grow, like even just sitting and watching and, and listening and learning is, is something that, at least for me, helps make me better. And I've, I've seen that be the case for for so many others, too.

Greg Dunlap  41:57  
That's, that's really great. I mean, it's, it's like, you know, when you do something for long enough, it's like you almost is especially if you care about the result really deeply. You can't you can't help but learn it better, you can't help but take the lessons of every single thing that you do and make it better and better over time. And it's great that the tools are there to allow you to do that.

Matt Scott  42:19  
Yeah, and I mean, you. Yeah, I love that. But just the points that you're making, too, because they're kind of opening up, there reminded me of some of the ways that I've approached my work just in general, I've, you know, and I know that this is a definitely a privilege, but I've had the privilege of doing what I love. And I remember, when I was graduating college that someone was kind of talking through, you know, think about what you're good at, think about what you like to do, and think about what makes you money and do the thing that's like at the center of those three things. And I've, I I've just been really thankful that it's worked out for me so far that I've been able to do the things that I love. And so when you do do what you love, or when you put yourself in the position to do what you love, as opposed to, like, you know, what your parents and family might want you to do or what society might expect for you. I personally think that you're you, you end up being a lot better at it just because you care and you're willing to work through. Yeah, the really challenging times and your excitement shows like that. It's the same with podcasting, too. Like when, when you're on a podcast, Greg or when I'm on podcast talking about something that I'm really excited by. It translates and i and i and i love that for for the listeners, but also just for like the quality of the content, like do show you love if you can.

Greg Dunlap  43:46  
You've talked a little a lot about how, you know, you've used, you know, the storytelling that you've brought through from your communities to teach sort of the world about them. But like, what have you gotten out of those stories? Like what have you learned about the communities that you're a part of, and that you participate in through through, you know, hearing these stories and telling them to other people?

Matt Scott  44:09  
Wow, I've learned everything. Every everything I know through the people I've met and stories I've heard but you know, maybe just to kind of like focus that a little bit. I have. I think I've always had a hard time learning about things that are that I'm not necessarily interested in through textbooks or through sitting and reading, or even learning about things. I'm interested that way. It's it's so powerful to be able to stop and sit with someone and ask them questions to listen to their story and experience or to ask follow up questions, because then it really helps you just kind of interrupt the conversation. Relevant that's, that's the thing that you get from like a live real time conversation that you can't get from anything else, just when you're connecting with someone virtually in person that you're able to dive in. And so for me, just the learning has been really, really incredible. And being able to find commonality and community with people through our stories has been great, because with most of the people that I've interviewed for, Let's Care, for example, of 100 plus people today, I have to count exactly how many it's been again sometime soon. But that's, it's really, like, it's almost one thing I'll say is that, I think that I've accomplished my goal, when I've done the interview, or when I've had that conversation, or at least one of my goals, which is to learn and to talk with this really cool person and then to, to be able to share that with the world is also a great benefit. But if no one listens to or watches it, I'm still fulfilled in being able to learn. And so that's, that's the biggest thing, generally, from the storytelling, just being able to ask questions, relevant questions to me, and, and definitely to people who tune in and listen to those things. And then to, just to learn and and share that more with with the world.

Greg Dunlap  46:24  
I mean, it sounds like, you know, we talk about, you know, you can't be what you can't see, in a lot of ways those stories make people feel less alone, right? Because they're, because they're they can, they can see there are other people like them out there, and it feels like it's had that same effect on you as well.

Matt Scott  46:44  
Yeah, and I mean, more specifically, within that I have a time and time again, in, you know, in my experiences with NASA, but also with other groups have often been the only one of me in the room, and I'm just writing about this for a column I'll be publishing soon. But, you know, it's, it's really interesting, when, you know, when you're a young person in a space where there are a ton of young people that, you know, that already can feel a little bit lonely, right, but then, you know, you're a black person and a young person in a space like that, or you're a black person, a queer person, a young person, or, you know, for women in spaces that are male dominated, it can feel really lonely. And so I, you know, the thing that I've loved about my storytelling most is that it's been definitely selfish, in that, that way of just helping find voices that helped me feel less alone, where I could be working in community, in environments, in organizations, or in communities where, you know, the, the teams that I work with might not be the most representative of me, in my experience. And yet, I'm still able to have those, like those glimpses into people's stories, people who who do share those experiences, and I'm still able to find that community and still able to feel less alone. So it's, it's really cool to have this opportunity to share stories that help me feel more included, but also along the way, really do a lot of work to do the same thing for other people. And so that that's definitely one of the biggest benefits for me personally. But again, it's it's cool that it's not like it doesn't feel that as selfish as it is, even though there's nothing wrong with being selfish about wanting representation. Because it's providing representation for a lot of different groups to along the way. And I love that, for me, and for the other people who are drawn in by those stories, I'm able to say, including in the space of Space Apps, Hey, you, you're really welcome here. And I want you to know that as community manager and putting in the work to ensure that and I also want you to see that, like here are a lot of the people who who might resonate with you who have also had that positive experience of being welcomed. And so I'm I had the you, that's a that's a great point, and a huge, less tangible benefit, but something that I think about probably every day.

Greg Dunlap  49:24  
That's really great. Um, as sort of a before we wrap up, I know that you as a complete new topic sort of You, you, you host a podcast about professional wrestling, and I as somebody who's also involved in a very niche fandom, I'm always interested in hearing about people's experiences with their fandom. So sort of how did how did you like how what what is the wrestling community like and how did you get involved in doing this podcast? And all of that, like what? What? tell that story? It's interesting because it's so much it's so different than all of the other work that you do. 

Matt Scott  50:12  
You know, it's so funny because so the the podcast just to start is the Wrestling RHAPUP on Rob Has A Podcast and specifically on the reality TV RHAPUP section of Rob Has A Podcast, which is also like totally hilarious to me. Well, maybe I shouldn't I shouldn't call out the fact that pro wrestling is in reality TV, but some people think it's completely real. And there are aspects of it that are that are real, but this isn't that's not what the podcast is about. You know, I grew up as a pro wrestling fan, I actually discovered it through video games in the probably about 2000 are in the late 90s. Just like growing up with an older brother and and, you know, family friends, I remember being in the room and dying to play these games and honestly, but again, wouldn't have loved pro wrestling as much as I do if they just let me play when I went to like, okay, whatever. But I was really, really just trying to play those video games. And I was so curious about what I was seeing on the screen. I didn't know that it was real until or you know that it was an actual thing with live humans until I just stumbled upon it on TV and the internet and, and I started watching. And you know, when I was probably about 12 years old, or 13 years old, my dad took me to a pro wrestling show because I begged him to do that. And we ended up going to a ton of shows after that. And so I grew up as a fan, you know, I went off to college and in 2010 and I, I kind of you know, I followed along with pro wrestling, but I didn't really watch it week to week on TV like I did, I would find, you know, ways to kind of keep up and read the news about it online. And the thing is over, you know, maybe about seven or eight years ago, I want to say WWE, the main pro wrestling company started something called the WWE Network where you can watch online and for me, I think that's the thing that kind of saved my wrestling fandom because it made it so easy to keep up and follow along and watch the pay per views, which aren't pay per views anymore. But you know, watch the pay per views. And so that was kind of my origin story with wrestling and I I've really been a fan since even though, you know, the last several years, I was definitely less of a fan than I was in, you know, growing up because I would go to all these different shows, I was obsessed with every single aspect of pro wrestling. And I think the thing that stood out to me just to stop on that, because it is so different than social change stuff is, you know, you're seeing these, in a lot of ways like real world, real world superheroes. You're seeing people do these really incredible things. And and I've always kind of found it funny that pro wrestling doesn't get the respect that, you know, that I think it deserves because at the end of the day, I mean, like I can't flip off of one large, I don't know, there's a lot of risks and a lot of injuries that happen. And things that I appreciate in wrestling. But you know, to tie that in with Rob Has A Podcast I actually got involved with the Rob Has A Podcast community sort of at this point in my life where I just started listening to a ton of pot new podcasts. And I don't think Rob knows this story. And I've also been reflecting on this a little too. But, you know, I mentioned in 2017, march of 2017, my dad passed away. And you know, that's such a lonely experience when you're I think I was 24 years old. And I just like started to listen to more podcasts and started to like, find ways to really like entertain myself, and just like hear people's voices and feel less alone and connect with communities. And what was really cool was that it was about shows like Survivor which I loved and Big Brother, which I loved. I sort of just slowly became hooked to to the content on the network. And then I think it was a year and a half later I randomly and you know, in the middle of June and around Father's Day, saw podcasts come out where Rob was talking about losing his dad and I was just shocked like that, that we have this in common. I don't know why he decided to make the podcast and publish it about his experience there but i i was so thankful and I think That was the thing that started to really hook me, like personally to Rob Has A Podcast. And then about a year ago in June of 2020. You know, everything was happening with George Floyd and just the protests that came out of that with Black Lives Matter and otherwise. And I just really loved with that, how Rob was talking about that a few months prior to that. I loved how Rob that we're we're talking about sexual assault, and I had a lot of experience with that. And I was just so proud of this community because I felt like it really represented the so many different perspectives. And I was just an all of that. And I had this opportunity last year, like the rest of the community to apply for the RHAP class of 2020. Right can be a podcaster. And so I applied I was accepted started podcasting about like Big Brother and other reality shows and and then the CO hosts for the Wrestling RHAPUP Mari Forth, who's also part of the RHAP class of 2020, asked me if I wanted to podcast with her about pro wrestling, because I mentioned it turned passing that I love this stuff. And the rest is history. And I feel like I'm more my wrestling fandom is so much stronger than it's ever been because of the wrestling wrap up podcast. And because of the RHAP community, and Mari and Rob, and so I just have so much to I could go on and on about this and how much I'm thankful for. But that's kind of the story of how I ended up here. And I think the thing that's cool is that, you know, I'm sure for you, for others. There's, there's there are all these different stories around why this community in particular, not just Rob Has A Podcast and the Wrestling RHAPUP. But you know, this podcasting fandom community is so impactful and important to all of us. And yeah, I'm, I'm just thankful that I that I could end up here, even though I didn't plan on it. The one thing I'll mention, just on top of that is that I talked a lot, Mari and I talk a lot about social issues on our podcast about pro wrestling, and it's very much a podcast like by us. So we're having fun, but also we are bringing our identities to the table. And I think that the podcast, has actually really helped me, and it's still helping me find my own voice within the world, like how do I talk about the things that I care about, even if they're not always falling into the same buckets, and I'm just really thankful for that chance to kind of find my own voice and use it in in a way that's probably not expected. But in a way that's really fulfilling.

Greg Dunlap  58:00  
I think something that's interesting, that's about and you about, I think a lot of not even just on Rob as a podcast, but all of the reality TV, podcasts, or a lot of them is that they have been kind of using that lens to talk about social issues that they see in the world, like you were talking about how in the issues surrounding Survivor 39 which was a bad thread around you know, sexual assault, and then Rob was using that to bring to talk about it on the network. And he was bringing, you know, experts about sexual assault on to talk about, you know, how to get help if you're a victim and all of this kind of thing. And, you know, bringing in you know, more and more, and there was all of the work with the Survivor Diversity Group to bring attention to the, to the issues of diversity and Survivor and Big Brother and other shows. And, and, and it's, it's, it's really interesting to me how they're turning using reality TV, which I think a lot of people view is kind of like frivolous, or, you know, or or meaningless. And, you know, I'm sure the same is true for wrestling too. And using that as a lens through which it to examine these social issues is I think, really, really impressive.

Matt Scott  59:13  
Greg, I don't know why but this definitely feels like therapy for for me, because I'm so much I hadn't really thought through so cohesively but I mean, yeah, a lot of people, of course, LOOK AT Pro Wrestling as this frivolous thing. And the same goes for reality TV. And the same actually also goes for a lot of stories of like people or change makers who often go unheard, like people kind of, you know, wave a hand and say that that doesn't matter. I don't care about that. But the thing is, like from my experience, I mentioned growing up with pro wrestling, I found so much strength and empowerment, like through seeing these people who were like really going out there and doing some really kind of superhuman things on TV, even if it's choreographed and scripted, like, it was so amazing to see. And then I think of reality TV. And I was also obsessed with that growing up. And so I was able to kind of learn about the world and get a better idea of the world, not just the world overall, but also what the world could be for me, as you know, people in a person in my identities through the characters I saw, and so the thing that I love, just when it comes to, actually, you know, thankfully, not only pro wrestling and reality TV, but also the work I do is that so many more of those voices and experiences of people who aren't normally focused on and represented are being represented. And like, even in pro wrestling, just this year to talk about, like important things for the very first time in about, you know, I think it's a 30 year 30 plus year history of WrestleMania, the big wrestling event that that, you know, casual fans, and you know, everyday folks know about Nope, we had two black women who were main eventing the show together two black women who are competing for, like this Women's Championship. And so again, I you know, it's it's scripted and all that, and I get that. But at the same time, like the what it stands for is so powerful. And that goes for reality to be in the representation we'll get with the survivor diversity pledge, which pledges for 50%, of casting to be of black people, indigenous people and people of color. And, you know, I'm, I'm just thankful that, you know, this world that I sort of, kind of just fell into, again, as a, as a kid with all the different content you're talking about, could actually be like, much more of a safe and welcoming space for me and people like me. And, you know, I don't know how I watched it growing up, because the representation was just not really there. And it's so bad. But man, I'm glad that I did, because I can see the progress and see how far it's come. And that's, that's the amazing thing about being able to do all the work that I'm doing, which is really cool, and which you helped me realize. So thank you.

Greg Dunlap  1:02:22  
My pleasure. So before we wrap up, why don't you tell people what you're kind of working, you've mentioned, Lets Care a bunch want to tell people about that and where they can find you online. And if you have anything else you want to get out there that people can hunt down?

Matt Scott  1:02:42  
Definitely. So as I mentioned, Let's Care is where since 2017, I've been interviewing and sharing the stories of changemakers. And in the last couple of years, last few years, especially I've really focused on the voices that often go unheard and on a lot of underrepresented or under estimated change makers in the work that I'm doing. And so if you want to learn about let's care, you could go to www, or I don't know, I always throw in the www but I just want people to know that https://www.lets.care is the website, not let's care dot com, but let's dot care. And within that just this year, a month ago, as I mentioned, I released 20s & Change San Francisco, a film that's about 90 minutes long, and featuring conversations with 21 changemakers, over six days without throughout the beautiful Bay Area all about identity and impact. So that's that, let's care. But more specifically athttps://lets.care/film. And that's the big thing that I really want to get out into the world. I talked about the Wrestling RHAPUP if you are, you know, interested in pro wrestling, that's the podcasts that I do. But more broadly, it's part of this thing called Rob Has A Podcast, which is this massive reality TV podcasting network. So if you watch, like The Bachelor or The Bachelorette, or whichever one of those is on, I don't know, because I don't watch either of those. But, you know, if you watch reality TV, it's a great place to go. And, you know, Rob, and Rob has a podcast and asked me to do this, but I would absolutely encourage people, you know, if you're really into reality TV to actually become an RHAP patron, because, you know, you could pledge like, for me, it's $5 a month. But you know, you get all this extra content, and you get to engage with this really phenomenal community. I personally love to watch Facebook Fridays, which is the thing that Rob does once in a while, and just to kind of meet the community members that way. And so that those are kind of the things I just want to plug in, shout out, but if people want to get in touch with me, they can just hit me up on social media @MattScotGW or I'm over on LinkedIn. Just search for Matt Scott and You'll find me there. But yeah, I've tried to make it really easy to find me and Get in Touch at an hour. I mean, I guess the last thing I'll say just to make it super easy as if people wanted to email me it's hello@lets.care or community to the point of this conversation at lead stop care. And so that's a lot of different places. But I guess that's just the that's that's life. There are a lot of different things going on. But I'm I'm really glad that I have them going on. Glad that people might want to check them out.

Greg Dunlap  1:05:34  
Great. Well, thanks a lot for taking the time today. It's been a really fun conversation, and I really enjoyed having you on. 

Matt Scott  1:05:41  
I agree. Thanks, Greg.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai