Greg Dunlap 0:06 Our guests today are Tenessa Gemelke and Kristina Halvorson from Brain Traffic, a content strategy agency based in the Minneapolis area. Together, they are also the primary team behind Confab, an annual conference that focuses on content strategy and user experience. Over the years Confab has grown a kind of passionate and crazy following, and I wanted to talk to them about how Confab came to be and what makes it so special. So Tenessa and Christina, thanks for coming on. Kristina Halvorson 0:30 Thanks for having us. Greg Dunlap 0:33 So I only really attended my first Confab a couple of years ago. So could you give me a brief history around how and why you started it and how it's grown to the place that it has today? Kristina Halvorson 0:47 Yeah, sure, I can take that. This is Kristina. Back in 2010, you know, 100 years ago, the content strategy conversation within the user experience community was really starting to take off. And we were just sort of all these content strategists who had been feeling lonely in their in their jobs and were finding each other. And books were being written. And there were tons of blog posts being written. And I, through my travels as a speaker, I had met so many amazing people. And one day was just like, I should have a conference. And we should invite all these people to Minneapolis, and we'll sell tickets and it'll be amazing. And so I kind of went on Twitter and was just like, we're gonna have a conference in Brain Traffic. And shortly thereafter was like, "Oh, this is ... this is hard." Greg Dunlap 1:40 Oh my god, what have I done? Kristina Halvorson 1:42 Yeah, no, that is ... You know, I think that when people first hear that they're like, "Oh, that's just Confab lore rewritten" and everybody around me is like, "Noooo that's really what happened." I just started inviting people. So you know, I secured the necessary experience and assistance to produce this conference. And I would say that it was an immediate, amazing success, like it sold out almost immediately. And we had hundreds of people on the waiting list for being the first, you know, content strategy conference in America, we were so excited. But the ... I will use the word magic ... like the magic of that first event was really this experience of having all these folks who had been working so hard to help their organizations get content right and had felt so alone in that battle, as many of us still do, come together and go "Ohhhhh my people!" And so it was just really great. And generally speaking, content strategists are just fantastic folks. anyhow. So that's where it all began, and it was great and it all worked out despite me. Greg Dunlap 2:59 What has changed about it over the years? Because I mean, I know there was like a period where you were doing like sub-Confabs and separate Confabs and then you kind of drew that back. Like, what was the evolution of that to where we are today? Kristina Halvorson 3:13 Sure. I would say that ... and Tenessa, you kind of took over as Director of Events in 2000 .... remind me. Tenessa Gemelke 3:23 I think 14 or 15. Kristina Halvorson 3:25 I think 14 Tenessa Gemelke 3:26 It's been so long. Kristina Halvorson 3:27 It's been so long. I mean, considering it's been a decade since March. Yes. Yeah. So at that time, you know, we were having the waitlist for Confab was so long, we just thought jeez, we really want to be able to provide more opportunities and sell more seats to the to these conferences because the community was growing so rapidly. And one of the things that we heard from people after the first conference was I want really, I want much deeper dives. And so our solution to that was to introduce an event called content Confab Intensive, which is three days of half or full day workshops. That got complicated because Confab Central, which is our big central conference, and the original one, and then Confab Intensive, kind of a little bit started kind of competing with each other. And then we had Condab Higher Ed, which was super popular and great with the higher ed crowd, but also was complicated for us in terms of just a business model, because we had to price the tickets so much lower. And so generally speaking, we were like, kept introducing conferences, we kept wanting to throw these parties. And then finally, one day, we sat down and we were just like, Oh, right. Money and business. That gets in the way of our content strategy parties. So we made the decision to just kind of pull everything back into one big happy Confab, which has worked out very, very well over the last couple of years. Tenessa Gemelke 4:54 And in recent years, what we had done that that sort of met the needs of, we hope, most have our audiences, we actually added the intensive workshop component to the beginning of Confab in I think 2018 and 19. And so folks could have that deeper dive that they'd asked for. And we always make sure that we still have higher ed represented in the programming. So trying to create one big family reunion ended up being the most popular model. Greg Dunlap 5:21 Yeah, I could see, you know, you talk about how the magic of bringing everybody together was you have a lot of people who are alone, and they come together, and they realize they're not alone. And I really, I feel like that's the basis of how a lot of communities come together. And it seems like maybe dividing up into sub events kind of broke that model to some extent, like people are going to the event that matters to them, but then you don't have that everybody coming together once a year thing anymore. Kristina Halvorson 5:52 Yes, I think that's wise and yeah, one Confab to rule them all. Yeah, that that may be true. And it certainly was, like the excitement of being at Confab is very, very powerful, palpable every year. And, you know, yeah, that is definitely something that we don't take for granted. Greg Dunlap 6:15 There's a real like, I don't know, I don't know how to describe it. But Confab has a, like a mood, or a vibe. That's very, very specific to it. Like it does not feel like a tech conference when you go, it doesn't feel like it in the way that it's presented, and it doesn't feel like it in the way that people interact. How much of that was intentional, or how did that grow? Like, did you have that in mind from the beginning? Were there things that you did to create that? Or was it more organic or what can you speak to as far as that goes? Kristina Halvorson 6:53 I mean, I think that yes, probably to all of those. Right. I you know, one, one advantage we had coming into Confab and planning Confab was that by 2011, when we debuted, I had spoken at a lot of conferences all over the world. I had written Content Strategy For The Web in 2009 and was really out there kind of banging the big drums about the importance of content strategy as a discipline within user experience. And having been at a lot of conferences, I knew a lot of things I did not want to do and a lot of things that I felt really added to the attendee experience in terms of making it truly a user centered experience. You know, we never catered to ... our business model was never heavily dependent upon sponsor dollars, for example, so we didn't have a trade show. We were not willing to cut corners on things like food or the party because that's part you know, you're leaving the office for three days, you want to have a good time, you want to meet people, and we just that was an important component to the Confab experience. I think too as I you know, I and I experienced this doing Confab virtually, I cannot over stress the importance of the emcee of an event setting the tone, and it has been an incredibly conscious choice for me from the beginning to make sure that the tone is approachable and friendly and accessible. And not like you know, we are here to preach to you because we are the wise and intelligent ones. It's very much a "We're here we are in this together." You know, even when I do speaker coaching, I tell speakers Look, I don't want you to feel like you are up on stage teaching everybody and that they are your students. If you can imagine that you're sitting in an audience of your peers, and then it's your turn to go on stage and share what You know, and then come in and sit back down with your peers and the next person goes up. And so I just all those are those are several of kind of the conscious choices that I have made. I will say that Tenessa Gemelke is a fanatic about ... who happens to be here with us today ... about ensuring that attendees have extraordinary personal experiences as like loved ones and rock stars walking through the door. So Tenessa, maybe you can talk a little bit about about where your priorities are there. Tenessa Gemelke 9:34 Yeah, we, you know, we spend a lot of time thinking about every single human being at Confab and the experience that they're having. And so, you know, Kristina really brought to the table that perspective as a speaker and so over the years, we have just really worked to continually improve the speaker experience, trying to help them feel as prepared as they can with coaching. We always pay our speakers. We really try to build In a system of support, so that all they have to do is show up and share their knowledge. And we also apply the same thinking to our volunteer squad. So we have folks behind the scenes who, you know, when we're in person, they're on their feet all day, and they're running here and there. And we have the same kind of training for them where we sat them down, and we're like, you need to go to the bathroom, you need to eat, you need to go, we tried it, we remind them of just tending to their humanity during the event. And then we sort of celebrate every group of people. We celebrate with the speakers at a special reception. We bring all the volunteers together at the very beginning to thank them and we have snacks and we, you know, make sure they get included at the party. And with our sponsors, we treat our sponsors the same way. I always tell sponsors, you know, we don't have a trade floor, but what that means is you don't get lost, it's you're not sort of relegated to the sales area. And our sponsors are invited to eat lunch with us and go to any of the parties and you know, we really just try to treat every person there like a person. And it's funny people like that, I guess. Kristina Halvorson 11:07 Yeah, you know, what's hilarious is that we've been talking about this for five, seven minutes we haven't once mentioned. I don't know, the program. Greg Dunlap 11:20 I think that's one of the things I was going to bring up at some point. I thought it was interesting, because you were talking about how as emcee of the event, you set the tone for the conference. And the reason that was interesting is because most tech conferences I go to don't have MCs at all right? They may, if you're lucky, have an opening and closing thing where people come and tell you about what's going to happen. But they don't have that kind of personality, that having an emcee, whether it's you, or whether it's someone else for some of the events kind of brings to it, you know, that that it's really it. really does seem like a family reunion with a tech conference attached to it rather than the other way around. Tenessa Gemelke 12:06 That's what we're going for. Kristina Halvorson 12:09 I will say that one of the things that we also have worked hard to do, and have gotten better at over the years, is to make sure that people who are coming through the door for the first time feel like they're part of that reunion or feel like they're a part of, you know, whatever the concept community immediately walking through the door. There is an event that I attended early on, like in 2009 2010, and it was an event where people had been returning year after year after year for a decade. And I walked through the door and could not have felt more excluded from them. And I was a speaker. Yeah, the minute I walked in, I felt like there were a ton of inside jokes and like parties and games that were happening that I wasn't invited to. And I just thought I am never gonna let this happen in an event of mine and so Tenessa had the great idea a couple of years ago we do a Confab first-timers call to make sure that everybody you know, gets questions answered. We make sure that you know, there's tons of wayfinding once you arrive at the conference. That I speak to them directly on stage. I, you know, ask people who've been there several times make sure that you are introducing and seeking out people because you were a first timer wants to and and that that has worked. We have first timers say you know, I felt so at home at this conference. That's what we're going for. Tenessa Gemelke 13:26 And if you've ever been at a conference with bad signage, it's like, the feeling of being lost is just a really crummy feeling. And, you know, we are so lucky we you know, talking about the mood or the vibe, we have Sean Tubridy, our Creative Director, who doesn't just make signs like he makes beautiful signs and he walks the space and tries to anticipate where people are going to feel that feeling of being lost and, you know, creates these little gifts that we give at the registration desk and I think just having that feeling of welcome and just reassurance that you're in the right place goes a long way toward helping people feel included. Greg Dunlap 13:36 And I mean, I could speak as having been a speaker, at Confab that the experience that I have had as a speaker at that conference was absolutely unparalleled from any other conference I've been speaking at, and I've been doing that for like a decade at this point. So you know, what you're doing is working. And it really I feel like it really goes to show what, you know, because this is a conference about user experience and content strategy. And you have taken those principles, it really seems like and brought them to your own product as an example of what can happen when you take those principles to a product and to make it successful. Kristina Halvorson 14:45 Yeah, that is that that could not be more true. And I think that, again, we come back to those principles of everything being user centered. Is it the sponsors? Is it the attendees? Is it the speakers? Is it the volunteers? You know, even the people that help us at the hotel, you know, tell us that it you know, it's good working with us. And it's just because like that's what matters to us, is what's happening for the people who are there and that that's what content strategy is all about as far as I'm concerned. It's that constantly centering your user and that's whether it is your reader or whether it is somebody who is using your product or whether it is you know, team members who need to understand roles and responsibilities and process when it comes to content. That you constantly have to be asking the questions. What do you need? How can we help? How can we make this better? What's gonna make you feel understood, safe, seen, delighted, and satisfied. Greg Dunlap 15:44 One of the things I had been meaning to ask about that you brought up already but I kind of wanted to dive into it a little more, if there's anything there to dive into a little more, is this idea that that you know, I know that a lot of communities especially ones that are very close knit, as it is for a lot of people who have attended Confab many times, they become very insular. And you know what you were talking about about, like, in jokes and about, you know, shared experiences and, rocket ships and cake and all of that kind of stuff can feel very isolating for new people. And I know like, I came in to confab with my colleague, Jeff Eaton. And because he was already in that community. It was I felt it very easy for me to get into it through him. But like, like, it does sound like it is a very conscious decision to, to work against that and to try to make sure that that you're you're not you're not falling into the trap of making something that only the people who have been attending it for 10 years can continue to enjoy. Tenessa Gemelke 16:50 Yeah, I will say that, you know, every year we're amazed by how many first timers we have. We always that's the first question Christina asked the audience. Raise your hand if you're here for the first time. And I think just seeing that visibly. And of course, now that we're virtual, we have a first timers Slack channel. And when they look at each other, like, oh, there are 300 of us, they feel less alone as first timers. But the other thing that we do is when whenever we're having any kind of a group conversation, so for example, we have our new conference Button coming up. And we had all of our speakers together. And we were having them introduce each other. And some of the speakers have known Kristina or me for 10 years. And so they're kind of making the inside jokes and they're like, Oh, so great to see you. I remember when your baby was born, you know, we're having those kind of friendly conversations. But then, whenever we're in that scenario, I'm really excited. I really explicitly coach at some point. Like for those of you who are here for the first time, you know, we want to make sure you know, we did a blind read, we didn't pick these people because they're our friends like you all got here on the same credentials. And you know, you are really part of us now it's not, we're not going to have a clique where there's sort of the the people who have always been here in the blue and so. So whenever I see anybody kind of doing that, I'll try to open the circle, I'll try to invite somebody in, or just kind of lift up that shared value we have about being inclusive. Greg Dunlap 18:24 Yeah, it really does seem to me that that inclusivity and diversity of the speaker lineup has been something that's been a really high priority, especially in the last few years. And not just I mean, and not just in terms of making sure that you have people of color and that women are represented and stuff like that, but also in making sure that you have new voices and you're not just hearing the same people year after year after year. I'm assuming that that is something that's very intentional on your part as well. Kristina Halvorson 18:52 That has been that has been such a serious responsibility that I will say I personally have felt to the content strategy community at large over the years. You know, one of my very first speaking, opportunities was with An Event Apart, which was ironically in a conference that was like on my bucket list to attend. And then before I even got to attended there, I was speaking at it. And Jeffrey Zeldman and Eric Meyer run that conference. And they have been so committed over the years to identifying up and coming voices that they think have something important to say that can help shape the world of the web and products for the better. And then giving those folks a chance in the spotlight, to really raise up their voices and make sure that they're heard and brought into the larger conversation. And I took that charge really seriously when we came to, you know, Confab over the years when it came to Confab. You know, content strategy is evolving so quickly every day and now especially over the last two years, we have seen just this like firm establishment of specialties and specializations and different kinds of content strategy raising up in organizations. And like without actively soliciting the perspectives and the experiences and the approaches of these folks who are on the front lines who have maybe haven't written books and you know, maybe haven't been blogging or don't have a podcast or haven't had the chance on the stage, like if we don't draw those voices in and lift them up we're going to stagnate as an industry. So, you know, it's not just about I mean, there is so much about like giving individuals that opportunity to stand in the spotlight and sit and say, you know, say their piece and share their wisdom, but it is also definitely about continuing to like curate the discipline and help kind of establish or augment, I guess principles that are shared through the discipline and the things that you describe. Inclusivity. Accessibility. Raising up marginalized voices. You know, making sure that content is available for people when they need it, where they need it, how they need it. We need lots of different voices to help make that happen. And so that has been a commitment for us over the years. Tenessa Gemelke 21:23 Yeah, I would say if there's, if there's one, I mean, we agonize over every aspect of every conference. But Christina and I are real programming geeks. I mean, we will sit for hours and hours and hours. Just really trying to make sure we curate the best possible collection of ideas. Kristina Halvorson 21:42 And I will say that there always comes a point in time where we are sitting, helplessly staring at like six piles. And just going we could have six Confabs right now. Like why, like the quality of proposals that come through the door every year are just mind blowing. And so that's it. Yeah, that's a that's a gift. Like we're lucky in that regard, for sure. Greg Dunlap 22:05 I mean, another thing that I'm just realizing talking to you about this is that I think another thing that kind of promotes the more community centered aspect of Confab is that you don't have a conference that divides everybody up all day into eight tracks of 20 talks each, right? You have like maybe three rooms with a talk in each but everybody periodically is always coming back to the main room to sit together and listen to a talk or to watch, you know, ignite talks or to come to or to have cake or whatever it might be. But but that periodically coming together and then breaking apart and coming together seems like it would also really foster this community aspect that we are talking about here. Kristina Halvorson 22:53 You know, that actually was a very intentional change that we made a couple of years ago. Because for the first several years, we did like the big ticket keynote, right? Like we brought in authors, we brought in Levar Burton. We brought in Dan Roam and Austin Kleon. And, you know, we shelled out a lot of money for these big lead names, because that's what conferences did. And we kept hearing, you know, from people that like, the time that they were together was really meaningful. And so I don't even remember what triggered it. But a couple of years ago, we were just like, let's forego, the big name keynote. And let's have everyone stay together for the first morning. And we will just curate, you know, kind of a mainstage program of shorter talks that are broader and appeal that maybe aren't, you know, as hands on tactical. Where we can talk about the industry, we can talk about ethics, we can talk about approach, we can talk about values and people and process. And then we'll break out into sort of those three different breakout sessions. And then on day two, we'll start with breakout sessions and then for the afternoon, we'll come together again for another mainstage program and people loved it. It has just been a huge success for all of those reasons that you stated. I also want to say, we have talked on again and off again, well we talk every year I guess, about whether or not to grow Confab. Because right now, it sells out at about 700 people. And we always have waiting lists, you know, a mile long. And we could sell twice as many tickets. I have no doubt. But it is just important for us to be able to maintain the size conference that allows people to feel like they're coming together and not just sitting in the stadium squinting at the stage. Greg Dunlap 24:44 And I mean, that itself, I assume, helps with the newcomers as well because it means that the crowd of people that they're encountering, I mean 600 to 700 is a lot of people obviously but it's not like like, you know, I would go to DrupalCon every year and be 3500 people and you know, there's a gigantic tradeshow floor and stuff like that. Like it does really make it more approachable it seems like. Tenessa Gemelke 25:05 Yeah, and we've talked about, you know, if we wanted to grow into a convention center model, I mean, we have that option but, but that doesn't feel like Confab to us. Greg Dunlap 25:17 I love that because, you know, we talked about communities and the choice ... people treat communities like growth is a given right? And, and making a choice to say, "This is what I've got, and I really love it and we don't need to change" is really important. It's the kind of thing that I feel like a lot of people when they're building or managing communities don't think about because everybody's so focused on building the biggest thing of all. But when you think about like, what your goals are, what you're trying to achieve, growing to the biggest thing may not actually be the best choice for everybody. Kristina Halvorson 25:53 Well, and you know I have run up against that as a business owner for the last 20 years. You know, I go to business owner conferences or I join groups and the number one focus is how do I grow? How do I grow and Brain Traffic ... I was told really early on that you are either going to run a numbers business, which is you want to grow and sell, or you're going to run a lifestyle business, which is that you want to make a good living for yourself and for your employees and, you know, do do what you love. I mean, not that you can't do what you love with the numbers but still where you're, you know, instead of putting the numbers first you put the people first. And that is just the kind of business I have always wanted to run. And so my approach has always been like, I know how much money I want to make every year. And as long as I make that much money then I'm good and Confab, you know, between Confab and or consultancy, that has allowed me to pay our employees well. You know, I raise a family, own a house, whatever. But, in terms of growth, I just have not I had an ambition beyond that, largely because community is such a central value to me. And I think that community does become harder and harder, the larger it becomes. I don't know Tenessa if you want to speak to that at all. Tenessa Gemelke 25:55 Yeah, I would say, you know, when you asked earlier about the years that we have spun off into different things, a lot of times that was because we were trying to respond to a request for a different kind of community. So if we saw a group of people coming to us saying they had a special connection or need or group, sort of group substance that they wanted to dig into a little more deeply, that's when we would, you know, spin up a new community. Whether it meant going to Europe to make a conference more accessible to folks overseas, or doing Confab for nonprofits, because those folks can't afford expensive conferences. You know, we were always driven by that, that hunger for community. And when we came back to we were driven by the hunger for one community. So that's definitely a value we hold closely. And we don't create a product unless we see that it has that behind it. Greg Dunlap 28:14 So this year, of course, you turned Confab into an online experience. So what sort of were you thinking about as far as bringing that forward into your online experience? And how did you make sure that it happened? Unknown Speaker 28:31 Tenessa Gemelke 28:34 What you're hearing is PTSD Greg Dunlap 28:40 Well, no, let me frame that some. Kristina Halvorson 28:43 Yes our "intentional" transition to an online conference in the year 2020. Greg Dunlap 28:48 I mean, in all seriousness, like like you, you did manage to bring the feel of a Confab to an online experience. I mean, it was very successful much more than any other online conference that I've been attending this year. And so I mean, I'm sure that things went into it to make sure that that happened on purpose, even if they were unintentional or on the fly. Kristina Halvorson 29:08 Yeah, you know, I guess I would ... Yeah. So when we finally were like, okay, I guess we're going online if we're gonna do this at all. We sat down and I think one of the first questions we asked was not what platform are we going to. We probably started with that question, but then we came back and we were like okay, what is Confab? Like, what is Confab? Okay. Yes, it is the sessions. But it is the gathering together, it is the hallway moments, it is the food which obviously we weren't going to bring to the table. But you know, it is lifting of new voices. Those were the things that we thought, Okay, well, this is what we need to center in the experience. And so while we were flipping out about you know, oh, we have zero experience during this and we are surrounded by tons of other people with zero experience doing this. We just tried to hold on to those core elements of Confab and figure out how to bring those through the screen. You know, what we said over and over was we are not going to do three days in a Zoom call. That is not going to happen. And so, you know, another thing that that sort of dawned on us as the days went by was that we were also going to be producing an online conference for people who were stuck in their houses during a global pandemic. And that trying to just sort of like put the conference program online as is was not going to work in people's day to day realities. They'd have children crawling all over them. They were sad, they were scared. You know, what could we do to sort of help weave Confab into the fabric of their lives for those three days. And I guess those were the principles that were driving our decisions in terms of what was going to be on the screen when. Tenessa Gemelke 29:10 Yeah, I think the three words that Kristina lifted up were community, conversation, and connection. And that we people really needed to feel like they were together. Not that they were isolated with a laptop. They needed to feel a two way experience so that they were not just listening. Because, you know, you can listen to lots of things. But that they were connecting with each other. With the speakers. With Kristina. And so, you know, we set up our Slack workspace that way. We developed our live broadcasts that way. And to the points Christina made about sadness and isolation, we introduced some really goofy fun stuff just to break up the days because there was no joy at that point. You know, in May, joy was in short supply and so even giving folks a pet show or karaoke or just anything at that point. I think in the time that's passed, people are finding ways to introduce that back into their lives. But at that moment in time especially there was just nothing. And so I think a lot of the response we had from our community was just gratitude that we gave them three days of happiness. Kristina Halvorson 32:17 Yeah and, you know, we also, I think that was what we decided we wanted to focus on during the live broadcast. And we worked really hard to build out this really robust library of content for the talks themselves that were going to be appearing in these breakout slots that people have access to now for a whole year. And so you know, that we sort of decided the, the meat of the content, they can go to that at any point in time. These three days need to be about connection. And you know, the other thing too, is that people wanted to watch other people having conversations. They wanted to listen in on that. And so the you know, the less time we had just like one person talking over slides and the more time we had people really chatting with each other and having spontaneity and you know, riffing off of one another and building on each other's ideas ... that was what people were hungry for. And so that's kind of what we focused on. I think too. The other thing that we had to keep telling our production company was Confab is not slick and overproduced. Like that is just not who we are. Ultimately, you know, I am confident I had to get up and let my dog out at least once while I was broadcasting live to the thousand people. I you know, I had in super fancy bluetooth earbuds that in the middle of a conversation with Sarah Richards started it was like "Battery Low" and I was "Excuse me while I get up and rummage through my purse to get my wired headphones." I mean, and I think people ... they wanted to see that. They didn't want to see superstar Youtube you know, perfectly produced anything. You can get that anywhere. Greg Dunlap 34:09 I felt like the keeping of a live aspect to it was really important to that too. Like a couple of conferences I've been to have been sort of more along the lines of "We are going to show these videos, but mostly what we're producing is a library of content and we're calling it a conference." Right? As opposed to what you all did, where I felt that the important part of, of what you get at a conference, like taking yourself out of your day and attending and being present, still managed to be a really integral part of what you built there. Tenessa Gemelke 34:45 Yeah, our production partners will always tell us having everything recorded in advance is the safest way to do everything. And we certainly, you know, for the library of content that people have purchased their ticket for, that was initially the draw of the conference was all these smart speakers and their presentations. Having some control over the quality of those was worth doing. But I agree with you, I think if you could watch those anytime then why would you watch them live? So we, you know, we tried to inject some things that people could react to at meal time and our Slack workspace was blowing up. I mean, just bananas. I think we hit our 10,000 message limit, if not the first day for sure the second day. Because people were really excited again by that feeling of being together. And I think the live broadcasts sort of facilitated that. Greg Dunlap 35:41 One of the things I did notice over and over in the Slack was the number of people saying that if it wasn't for an online event, they would never have been able to attend Confab at all. And, you know, expressing how this was really great because it allowed them either because of the distance away that they live or their financial realities or whatever, to attend Confab without having to travel to Minneapolis to stay in a hotel for three days. Do you see that as assuming we do reach a point where we can all gather and get together again, do you see that online component staying a part of Confab going forward in order again, on the topic of inclusivity and whatnot. in order to make it more accessible to more people. Kristina Halvorson 36:30 I don't think that that's going to be optional, to be honest, and I think it's not only because we are so excited to be able to bring Confab and now Button to people around the world now that we're you know, more familiar with these these tools and opportunities and figuring out how to enlist the help of community members in all time zones. I also feel strongly that companies are going to say, "Well, look, it didn't cost me $3500 to send you to this conference and put you up in a hotel and pay for flight. It didn't cost us that much. So your professional budget is now slashed by half, or two thirds, or whatever." I think also, they're not flying right now. And they're going, "Oh, I don't need to fly as much as I was before." And there's so much focus in the news right now about, wow, look at all this is cutting down on carbon emissions. And you can see the skyline of cities that you haven't been able to see for, you know, decades or whatever. I just think there's going to be greater consciousness and awareness about flying less. So I think that that's a component too. But ultimately, what's going on right now is setting firm expectations among audience members that I shouldn't have to be there to take advantage of the opportunity to participate in this conference. Tenessa Gemelke 37:57 Yeah, you know, who knows if or when people are going to be excited to get together in large groups again. I mean, this we're going on something that's just resetting all of our, all of our perspectives on that. Greg Dunlap 39:01 So you all have a new conference that you're starting called Button. What's that all about? Why did you decide you needed to do a new thing, and how is or isn't it different than Confab? Kristina Halvorson 39:16 Oh boy. We've been talking about doing a conference like Button for a couple of years now, and this is ... I was mentioning earlier, how exciting it has been over the last couple of years to see content strategy gain traction in areas of real specialization within organizations and across different fields of practice. And one place that we were seeing a real clamoring for connection and community was in the field of product content strategy, which also wraps in the practices of content design and UX writing. And really the only community that exists for that today is a Slack workspace called the Content+UX Slack. You know, it started off with maybe a couple hundred members, I think it's up to like 8000 members or something which was really indicative to us that okay, people are looking for information, they're looking for insight that is more specific to working with digital products and designing digital products than our focus of Confab, which is really like the world of content strategy. So, you know, it's people who are thinking about websites, we're thinking about products, we're thinking about enterprise content strategy and guidelines and systems. Who are thinking about structured content, who are just thinking about the role of the content strategist in the in the greater world. And so having identified that need, you know, we really just saw an opportunity to bring those folks together. Again, centering around like, here is a home base for you. Here is an opportunity for you to talk about and put some parameters around and develop some shared principles for your your practice of product content strategy and the associated, you know, activities and fields of practice. And the minute we announced, hey, we're going to do this conference around product content strategy, like we barely whispered it. I think we announced in a couple of social media accounts. People lost their minds. I mean, it was just crazy response on social media. And we had like 1500 signups for this email list overnight. You know, and then pandemic, but what? So some of the feedback that we got was I haven't been to Confab for ... somebody said, "I haven't been to Confab for the last seven years because it was just too broad. And this is exactly where I need to deepen my expertise." So that was that was where Button came from. Tenessa Gemelke 41:54 Yeah, and at Confab. I mean, we were certainly seeing a demand for these topics. But you know we would pick a couple of UX writing talks, we will pick a couple of product content strategy talks. And it just it wasn't enough to meet the needs of that audience. But of course, making half of Confab that would alienate a lot of the Confab audience too. So it just felt like a natural next step. Greg Dunlap 42:18 Is there anything that you're doing differently as far as planning Button or how you're putting it together or anything by based on the needs of that conference than Confab? Or do you expect it to be very Confab-like? Kristina Halvorson 42:40 I will say we want to build on the success of Confab. And so you know, we asked, as we always do, we asked for open feedback and had hundreds of comments and ideas and, you know, kudos for things that went right and you know, complaints about things that could have gone better. And we want to we want to up our game. We don't want to break anything that worked. And we want to try to give more of the things that did. So there are going to be a lot of very, very similar elements. The Slack community will be structured very similarly. We hope to inject, you know, some fun and levity throughout the day. We are going to be focusing on conversations and exchanges in QA and in our live broadcasts versus just straight, you know, a bunch of straight talks with slides. We're going to have an even more robust library of content, I guess, I would say that like the general structure of Button, yes, will be very similar, just with some adjustments to the program. Tenessa Gemelke 43:45 Yeah, I think the programming choices are really different. And so in terms of what people can look forward to, like what are the panel discussions about or how are we approaching different topics, you know, this is a group where, you know, at Confab, we might have had an introduction to UX writing approach, and here it's more like really diving into the nitty gritty approaches that different companies use and people are sometimes working on huge teams and working with really different kinds of, you know, departments and their struggles are different. And so I think we're really trying to develop a program that speaks to the unique struggles of working with digital products. Greg Dunlap 44:27 Well, if Confab is any indication then I'm sure it will be a smashing success, and I wish you all the best of luck with it. Before we go, is there any place people can find you on social media or anything else you want to get out there for people to find before we sign off? Kristina Halvorson 44:47 Yes, absolutely. We are super excited to welcome folks to Button. If you would like to sign up for our email list or learn more about the program, you can find us at buttonconf.com and also follow us on Twitter same handle @buttonconf. If you would like to sign up for the Brain Traffic email list which will get you information on all the conferences and events you can do that at braintraffic.com. And you definitely want to follow to Tenessa on twitter at @gemelket because Tenessa went viral two weeks ago. Greg Dunlap 45:32 That's right viral sensation Tenessa Gemelke. Kristina Halvorson 45:35 Crazy viral because her son put came and told her that there was a serious leak under the sink. And she went to look under the sink and there was a leek, like an onion, with a very serious expression drama on its face. And yeah, hundreds of thousands of likes on Twitter and then just it was picked up by media around the world. So you do not want to miss out into Tenessa. But also come to our conferences. Tenessa Gemelke 45:58 Yeah, I'm a celebrity now named leekmom. Kristina is also a delight on Twitter. She's at @halvorson. Greg Dunlap 46:06 One of my co-workers recreated that in a video with her boyfriend the serious leak thing. She said "Oh my god, there's a giant leak under the sink" and her boyfriend came running into the kitchen, only to open it up and find a giant leek under the sink. So, you've inspired much hilarity. Tenessa Gemelke 46:25 My son has ruined relationships all over the world. Greg Dunlap 46:31 Well, I want to thank you both for the time today, you know Confab is a really amazing thing that you built and it's always an absolute delight to attend. I really appreciate the ability for you to share some of the things that you've done to make that happen and come on the podcast today. Tenessa Gemelke 46:59 Thanks for having us. Kristina Halvorson 47:00 Thanks for having thanks so much for having us. I there's just nothing I love more than people that love confab as much as we do. So we really appreciate your enthusiasm and desire to learn more about it. Transcribed by https://otter.ai