Hey everybody, my name is Dave Jackson, and welcome to Tales from the backlog, a video games podcast where I bring in guests to talk about the games we play My name is Dave Jackson, joined today by my good friend and anthropomorphic centipede, Jim Rodeman Today’s game is Hollow Knight, a metroidvania developed and published by Team Cherry in 2017. Elevator pitch for Hollow Knight is “dark souls atmosphere meets metroidvania” Before we get into it, Jim, other than Hollow knight, what have you been playing? Ok, let’s take a break and when we come back we’re gonna get into Hollow Knight. Note that Hollow Knight has a spoilable story and some boss fights and stuff that are best experienced fresh, so tehre will be a spoiler section at the end. Our histories with the game- I bought this on Switch back when I first got it in 2018 or so when I was reading “best Switch games” articles after a few years of basically only playing Breath of the Wild and Xenoblade Chronicles. But I got really frustrated and quit, and picked it up again in 2021 because I kept thinking about it. Will get into that later in the show. Play time- 25 hours this time around. Got the standard “bad” ending and did not do the DLC. Basics of how the game works, key mechanics, what makes this game stand out? Story Hallownest- underground kingdom of tunnels and caves and a big city, which is appropriate because this is a world of anthropomorphic insects. You play as the knight, a little beetle looking dude wearing a mask with 2 horns, and wielding a nail. You only get the direction to head down into Hallownest. You find out that Hallownest is a fallen kingdom, with its citizens falling victim to an infection Without spoilers, the story is very Dark Souls in several ways- how did we feel about it? Stories like this and Dark Souls just wash right over me. I just kind of vibe with these games and follow the extremely general plot line. This story and lore is deeper than my knowledge of it, so this podcast will be more general. There is a “True ending” to the game, that is hidden behind lots of optional tasks, no spoilers but I will say if you are interested in getting the true ending, please use a guide because you’ll never figure it out by yourself A pet peeve of mine. Setting/Atmosphere Solitary game- again like Dark Souls, you are alone in this kingdom for most of the time. Very laid back sound design during the levels themselves. All you get are some light background music, insect noises from the background or from enemies, and the sound of footsteps as you go along. Beautiful hand drawn environments, levels that are visually distinct from one another, which helps because this map is very big. Bigger than any Metroid map to my knowledge. As you go into a new area you don’t have a map right away, pushing into the darkness. You’ll eventually hear the humming of the map maker, from whom you can buy a map and start filling it in. Map progress is filled in when you rest at benches. Because the areas are easy to tell from one another visually, you are able to make a better mental map of the game and remember how they connect. Or when you follow a new path and emerge in an old area, your map hasn’t updated yet but you instantly know “OH nice I know where I am” Limited fast travel options with the stagways, the tram, and doing dreamgates. I never even knew about dreamgates but the other 2 were sufficient. Metroidvania elements What makes a good metroidvania? As with all metroidvanias, you unlock abilities and upgrades that help you unlock new areas of the map, where you find new upgrades, and so on Double jump, dash, ground slam, magic spells, etc One of the best parts of HK is that these are all useful beyond being keys to new areas. You’ll use these abilities in combat as well as making exploration easier Good rewards- always something useful like a mask shard (heart piece in Zelda), a soul vessel shard, a badge or an item that you can sell for lots of money. Or even whole secret levels! Or the cute little grubs Like some other metroidvanias, this game is checkpoint-based. You save and update your map when you rest at benches, and you respawn there when you die. This system is fine on its own, I really really wish there were like 5 more benches in the world. Some of them are just too damn far apart. Non-linear game, especially once you reach a certain part of the story. You will rarely find yourself on a very linear path. Though it’s true that there is often one specific place you have to go, it’s on you to explore and find it. Then the game opens up later. Platforming Really based on pogoing by striking downward with the nail to pop yourself up, sometimes on static things in the environment, sometimes on enemies. Combined with air dashes, double jumps, wall jumps, etc. Your metroidvania upgrades are used in platforming as well, and these challenges kinda get easier as you go along. Combat The main thing that stands out to me is that HK combat takes place to the left and right of enemies like other 2D action games, but also very much above and below them as well. You have great mobility that only gets better as you get upgrades. Has the same kind of slash down on something and pogo back up mechanic that Shovel Knight, Zelda 2 have. The difference is with those you can hold the button down and pogo repeatedly, in HK you have to hit the swing button with the right timing each time, you can repeat this as often as you can continue to hit the timing correctly. This is used to trivialize some enemies in the game (if you’re good enough), as well as platforming challenges You have a mana pool called Soul, that you use to heal and to use magic. You replenish this by attacking enemies, so this sets up the rhythm of HK combat- attack and dodge and gradually build up Soul, then use your soul for healing or magic (mostly healing for me), and repeat. You can learn combat arts, called nail arts, that allow the knight to do special combat moves. I never used these, did you Jim? When you die, a la Dark Souls, you drop all of your Geo (money), and must return to the spot where you died. Unlike Dark Souls, you have to fight a shade version of the Knight to get your money back. It’s not difficult but…...Jim what do you think? I think this sucks. Money isn’t an issue late in the game, but early on you are pretty desperate for money to buy all the stuff you want. If you keep dying and losing your money, it sucks. And once again, the benches are pretty spread out, so you can get yourself in a negative loop that really sucks, and is why I quit playing my first playthrough. When you die, your soul tank is reduced, and you can only restore it to its full capacity by defeating the shade, meaning less healing available if you have a tough road back. Again, the poor get poorer. I didn’t really like this system in Dark Souls 2 and I don’t like it here. Bosses IMO incredible boss fights, all of them feel very fair and learnable. Will talk specific experiences in the spoiler section, but I really really like the boss fights. Some are really difficult, some are optional and really hard, I diidn’t do those, like some of the rematches or Radiance. You can use the dream nail to fight some mini bosses to get more essence toward the true ending. These fights are pretty fun, but I did not do all of them. Build variety HK has builds that you can make using the charm system in the game. You can buy or get charm slots as rewards, for a maximum of 11. There are over 40 charms in the game, with varying sizes, some take 1 charm slot, some take 4, so you always have to pick carefully. Example charms- reducing knockback, extra soul when you hit an enemy, magic spells, faster healing, extra damage, double healing but it’s slow, etc etc Jim what kind of charms did you tend to run with? I always ran with charms that helped me deal with mistakes in combat, like faster healing or no knockback, or while exploring I used the charm that draws geo to you. DLC? There are some DLCs that add extra content into the game, like Godhome and the Grimm Troupe, though neither of us did these. Final thoughts, Do we recommend? At what price point? I experienced some frustration the first time I played this game. I think a few small changes would have made this more enjoyable from the beginning, but after I came back a few years later, dare I say it, better at games, I absolutely fell in love with this. I think this is, no hyperbole, I truly believe this is the best metroidvania game ever made. I’ve played the other greats in the genre that people hold dear, like Super Metroid, Symphony of the Night, Ori, and several others, and they’re all chasing Hollow Knight. Housekeeping - Thank you for listening! If you want to support the show, please subscribe on your platform of choice, leave us a rating and review if your platform allows it, and spread the good word! I also do a podcast called A Top 3 Podcast where each week we pick a topic, pick our top 3s in that topic, and discuss. It’s a good time, so check that out if you want to hear us talk about other subjects. SPOILER WALL Story talk - will not be an exhaustive look at the story, just an overview due to the way I experience stories in this type of game. A long time ago, the inhabitants of the area worshipped a mothlike deity called Radiance, which basically forced them to obey A warrior known as the Pale King defeated Radiance and established Hallownest, but the Radiance began creeping into the citizens’ dreams The Pale King created the vessels, soulless husks (of which the main character is one), and one, The titular Hollow Knight, was sent into the Temple of the black egg to hold off the Radiance. However, as soon as you open the temple, you see that it has fallen victim. Great moment in the boss fight as you do more damage, it gets more infected and starts stabbing itself Endings Hollow Knight ending- player defeats the Hollow Knight and takes its place Sealed Siblings ending- if you collect the void heart charm- hornet arrives to help and hornet is sealed inside with you Dream no more ending- if you collect the void heart and use the upgraded dream nail by collecting 1800 essence to upgrade the dream nail. Fight Radiance after Hollow Knight You destroy the source of the infection, but the knight is destroyed as well. Bosses/levels Favorite bosses- Hornet, especially the second time you fight her, is such a good fight. It really feels like a duel against a master, and it really got me excited for Silksong where you’ll be playing as Hornet Mantis lords- a real precision fight, great great attack patterns to learn. Really challenging early boss but is a good test- are you ready for the later stuff? Soul Master- I know this one gives people trouble but I had a great time with it. Slamming attacks foreshadowing the ability you get from him, the fakeout into the second phase, good times. Dung Defender- great sound design on him, fun fight Hollow Knight- a fun fight, gets easier as it goes along because the infection is running its course, he weakens and starts damaging himself to maybe cut out the infection? Bosses we don’t like? Brooding mawlek- a kind of mortar cannon bug