00:00.43 Dave Hello everybody. My name is Dave Jackson and you're listening to tales from the backlog. This is a video games review podcast where each week I'm joined by a guest to bring a game out of the backlog play it and discuss we have a special episode today because we're not talking about 1 game. We're going to talk about. Many games today about games that are set in cool real world places but before we get into that I have 2 wonderful guests with me today. They are both friends of the show. First time guests on the show cultural gaming connoisseurs randall quiggle welcome. 00:36.76 Randall Yo. 00:39.66 Dave A man of few words I love it? Well I I would say I love it. But this is a podcast you got to talk a little bit. We're also joined today by Ozzy Garcia Ozzy welcome 00:43.69 Ozzy We got to have words randall. 00:47.87 Randall What are what are words. 00:55.56 Ozzy Thank you, thank you Dave and thank you for having me I'm glad to now be part of the tales from the backlog lore I am now ah part of the culture of tales from the backlog. So um, thank you for integrating me and for being so considerative presentation. Um, ah. 01:10.13 Dave Of course, right? Yeah retired from the region free gamers podcast you people will have heard Ozzy and Randall um on the retro hangover podcast several times if you are fans of that show which you should be. 01:12.30 Ozzy Other retired podcasters. 01:26.70 Dave And I have a feeling we'll talk about retro hangover a little bit later in the show just a little tease today we are going to talk about games that are set in real places. Um, but in order to narrow this down and really drill into the reason I wanted to talk about this. We're going to talk about game set in the real world. Or kind of you know, slightly dramatized versions of real places but we are excluding really common video game settings like the United States and Western Europe and Japan so as much as I want to spend the next hour talking about yakuza games not today? Sorry um, we we have 02:05.31 Dave Many many hours on the podcast already talking about yakuza so I wanted to kind of focus on games that are set in other places around the world. Maybe even historical real world settings and specifically games that kind of give you a window into some aspects of. That culture or their history or any combination of those things where you might even learn something how about that so as much as I you know love the hitman series to give another example when I play Hitman and you do the the level in Romania in hitman 3 and don't learn anything about romanian culture by doing that the levels on a train or like there's a level in China in Hitman 3 but I don't really learn much about China I'm just you know I'm choking people out I'm taking their clothes. That's what you do? So we we want to drill into games that are kind of highlighting culture and history as. You know one of the main things of those games. So I I will get us started early on with with the kind of game I played recently that inspired this topic which is um, detention by red candle games have you guys played detention before. 03:16.40 Ozzy I have not I have not. It's the the little I know about it is that they're made from the team that made devotion and devotion was banned in in China and it ended up being subsequently banned. 03:25.10 Dave Right. 03:32.94 Ozzy All the other major storefronts like steam and epic game store etc. So that's that's what I know I know it's a horror title I know it's first person so I was really curious when I saw it here and I said hm that picks my interest. Um, so looking forward to hearing. 03:43.11 Dave Um, yeah. 03:48.28 Randall Yeah, and pretty much the same deal um was turned like it I know detention from from devotion mostly because of the whole storefront controversy and whatnot and. The moment that I heard that red candle games. Essentially just said you know f you to the to the ccp whenever they just made it was like an off color joke or whatever in their in their game and then it got taken down I was like looks like I need to go play this game and then ah Chris. Chris from the retro hangover podcast actually streamed playing it and that was how I got introduced to it and I was like oh not only is this game good. But these guys are completely within they're right like with defending their game. So I was like and you and I learned a lot. Um, just from It's not that long of a game as well. 04:42.72 Dave Yeah, um I have not played devotion I have it listed on here because detention and devotion are both set in Taiwan that's where this dev studio is from they're from Taiwan detention is a. 04:56.79 Dave Ah, third person point and click set in the 1960 s when Taiwan was under martial law in their you know their own history devotion set in the 1980 s in Taipei which is the capital. The reason I kind of like. 05:11.28 Dave Latched onto this um a couple of reasons number one I've traveled to Taiwan a couple of times back when I lived in Asia I really loved traveling there I did some couch surfing there stayed with some local people had a great time. Um, and then playing detention especially and like I know what happens in devotion because i. Ah, one point I was convinced I'd never play it so I spoiled the story for myself. It's cool and it's a very like specific cultural thing again and I don't want to talk too much about it because it it gets into spoilers and also I haven't played it but detention. 05:38.85 Ozzy Yeah. 05:46.66 Dave Is set during this martial law period in Taiwan and the fact that they're living under martial law with you know censorship and like heavy propaganda and all of that and ah you know punishment for speaking out against the government stuff like that. Ah really felt like it was a unique window into their history. Um, and it's a horror game so they use that to effect within the horror genre. But this was the game that I played and I thought like this is really cool how you know this indie studio has made a game about their own culture their own history tied it into the horror genre set it out into the world and now people like me can play this game. And just get a glimpse of that and I think that that's ah really valuable especially for ah you know I think it's valuable for everybody to learn a little bit of stuff like that through the media that you consume. And so many of our games are set in the United States or Japan or western europe or completely fictional places right? So you don't get windows into cultures that you're not familiar with very often. So yeah, detention was the first game I wanted to kind of bring up here. As the kind of shiny example for this podcast. 07:01.45 Ozzy Yeah, and and and I think they've the the most I think promising aspect of of this entire episode is that. I Feel like games have a unique ability to really transport you into a particular time and place and if done right? It really does feel like you can taste what it felt like to be in that particular point in time. 07:28.80 Ozzy For example I know we're not talking about Japan. But when you look at the my summer adventure games that transports you to being a child in the 1970 s in the japanese countryside and being there for the summer and it gives you the sights and sounds that. Something like a movie would not really be able to achieve in full extent because it's a two D Plane I mean notwithstanding the possibility of having 3 d classes or something but you can't really say there's a house there or there's a person there. let me go to them or let me. go to this side of the town or let me check this out and and maybe read a log or something that gives you some more flavor I think the very best examples of the games that you know, managed to convey this cultural slice of life. You know to say it that way. It's one. they're authentic you know they're authentic and that they're being told. Most likely by either someone that knows that culture quite well or that respects that culture quite well I don't think that it is necessary to be from that culture to tell that story I don't believe that cultural appropriation is really an issue you know in all cases necessarily but what I do want to see is is stories that are told well in a way that respects their origin and and the ability to really say hey you're going to be transported to this very specific time and place in Taiwan in the 1960 s I don't know if there are many other. 09:02.59 Ozzy Pieces of media that can achieve that to be honest and then you add the layer of potential even virtual reality in the future and and and really it's just ah boundless possibilities that could arise from from managing to mine all the different cultures because there's so many many many different you know materials that you can mine from so many different cultures. That to me it. It almost feels a little bit shortsighted to keep focusing on the same few western cultures and tropes because like if you're struggling for creativity. Dude just go out and find you know a local you know Kosher and and you're going to get something really cool and interesting because every culture has its own mythology. 09:42.40 Ozzy And I don't mean in the in the gods and and and Heroes kind of sense in the sense of they have their own folklore and and honestly I wish that more games did this and what I realized in researching for this episode is that incredibly enough finding the games to talk about is harder than you would think it is. 10:01.20 Dave Yep. 10:01.21 Ozzy Because most games are either Western and style Western derived or they may have some sort of influence but it's very tangential. Um, so it's It's really to me. It's kind of a miss opportunity. 10:15.42 Dave Um, yeah I I go ahead. Randall. 10:17.86 Randall Yeah, oh yeah, sorry no I was just going to build off the point of the the westernization of most things because I mean 90% of fantasy is built off of you know, like the the foundation laid by Tolkien which was ah. 10:33.41 Randall Ah, a very westernized version of fantasy that he wrote while you know fighting a world War Ii you know? Ah, it's it's it's very interesting that even whenever you go completely fantastical with you know humans elves and dwarves. Um. That still has deep ties to at least western you know Europe sensibilities and cultures. 10:57.30 Ozzy Yeah, same same with sci-fi and you know if if you go you know based on that through line. It's almost like if every fantasy or high findtasy setting takes place in the English countryside. So the bucolic you know. 11:11.42 Dave Um, yeah. 11:13.67 Ozzy English countryside of of talkings up you know past? Um, but you do see that that influence that a western influence really seeps through even to settings that are not realistic in nature and and that was kind of this heartening to see. 11:27.50 Dave Yeah I I think that like one of the things one of the things that I think is going to come up with the examples that we talk about today is that indie games again are like the bastion for this type of representation of different places and cultures. Um, just like indie games are often a bastion for new creative ideas in the gaming industry and the fact that making video games has become more accessible over the years means that more and more people no matter where they're from are starting to gain the ability to make games with polish. Ah, about the places that they have experienced and I think that that's going to come up a lot with other games that we talk about today and of course we'll have some triple a level games in here too. But I do think that we're going to have some some real indies stick out here which is exciting. So um I will kick it over to you Randall what is 1 game that you brought for this conversation here. 12:28.78 Randall Yeah, so ah one I Guess we'll just you know immediately swing into I guess it would be considered a double a title if if people still use that term nowadays to describe like semi- published works. Um, anyways that the example. 12:46.74 Randall That I brought first was the stalker series like the the first 3 games but mostly shadow of Chernobyl because that's the one that most people know and the one that tends to have ah the most cultural significance at least um I mean skies. Ah. Think it's skies over appropriatepiate is another good one or is it clear ski ah I can't remember the title right now. But ah anyways, the main the main stalker game shadows of Chernobyl. The the main reason I wanted to bring that one is just how deeply. Eastern european that game is like from the main language of spoken like you have to deliberately change the language to english um, and most of the time. Ah, it's a bad idea to do so because they didn't if I remember quicklyhow they only had like 1 or 2 voice actors record english lines. 13:42.63 Randall Um, everything else was recorded in Russian or Ukrainian um, and the domain crux of the whole thing for people who I don't know how you wouldn't know but just in case, you don't stalker is a first person survival shooter game taking in. Taking place in the Chernobyl exclusion zone. So right in what what would it be like cardinal direction wise in Ukraine. It's like the north I think maybe somebody helped me here I'm whatever. 14:13.56 Ozzy Well, it's not yeah, not a geography podcast. So I think you're good randall. 14:20.43 Randall You give my point. Ah, but ah to to bring some examples of like the kind of things that just playing the game. Ah very much introduces. Um, most people to was again. It's mostly spoken in Russian or Ukrainian ah, all of the architecture. Is like Soviet Era or Post-soviet Era architecture and ah a lot of the the architecture is broken down military bases. Um, kind of showing the Russian influence in Ukrainian Territory at the time. Um. All of the monsters in those games are built off of Ukrainian folklore in myths so that the the things created from the anomalies. Um are all built off of. 15:12.69 Randall Actual myths and legends that ah ukrainians came up with because they could not enter the exclusion zone so they would be like oh someone's dog got lost and they came back this hideous beast um type deal. Um, and then one of my favorite parts about that game is there isn't a lot of music. In it. But when there is music. It's all based off of the classical acoustic um like slavic um like tones and so it's while it's not. You know it's not reading you a history book of. Ah, ukrainian and soviet um history it. It is just a bleeding that um that whole culture. Um I could go into a diatribe about the fact that the whole game is based off of a book published in the 70 s um called roadside picnic. Um. Long story short with that one is that that book shouldn't have been published in the 70 s based on how it was how it was written um the the kind of the entire context of the book was about soviet censorship. For even fictional writings because a roadside picnic is a science fiction novel. Um and it it was incredibly difficult for ah arcadie and Boris I I cannot remember how to pronounce their last name. It was ah a brother. 16:45.13 Randall Like duo the publish it. It took them years to get it published um, but they were actually able to do it and it was an incredible feat to be able to to publish that science fiction work back in those times and then it was developed into stalker. So. Again that that soviet-era criticism of the government and censorship kind of bleeds into the game as well. But that's one of my that's like my biggest example. 17:09.66 Ozzy But and Randall I mean ah, it's it's funny that you mentioned that because before stalker the video game stalker the radio game gets its name from stalker the movie which was made by android tarrkkovsky. Um, probably the the greatest. Um, soviet director of all time and you know the funny that the interesting, not funny thing about Andre Tikovsky is that his films were so controversial that it is generally understood that he was poisoned by the soviet government. You know him and his family so him and his family died. You know over time from cancer. Um, you know and they said that it was it was a slow poisoning so it's. 17:47.53 Ozzy Very relevant that this this piece of media you know and in large part you know took so much pain littlely and and and sacrifi in order to be able to be brought you know to readers and and to viewers. So so it's it's very interesting and one of the things that I will say it's that I don't. See soviet-era cold war material being mind enough and and yes we do see cold war spy films and and media and and the James Bond Mode etc but really soviet-era paranoia um, it's not really used a lot. You know, ah there there is you know a lot of stories that could be told about you know East Germany there's a lot of stories about the being under the soviet bloc. There's stories about the war in Afghanistan you know with with the soviets, etc. There's so many areas of of. Soviet you know history that is just not being used nowadays and like I said I mean it's it's a very interesting piece because it was kind of the diametrical opposite of what was considered western and it was an alternative to kind of the western um approach to things and you know me having grown up in Cuba. Under you know a kind of Soviet Influence you know my cartoons growing up were soviet cartoons I you know I grew up watching soviet movies, etc and and under soviet architecture in many ways. Um, it's almost nostalgic to me and and it's really you know to me a shame that I don't see more of that. 19:21.39 Ozzy Recently we saw it in that very controversial ah game Atomic hearts I believe ah that was really mining a lot of the Soviet Era tropes ah but in a very sci-fi Biosh shocky way. But I think there's a story to be told about. 19:26.98 Randall Yes. 19:38.72 Ozzy The experience of leaving living under Soviet espionage and paranoia. Um, you know during that cold War period that that begs to be told. 19:48.30 Dave Yeah I think a lot of the media like with that kind of flavor that I was experienced exposed to is mostly like you said like the James Bond like the you've got your villains that are like the russians and stuff like that. But. It seems like people have moved on and the the only thing I can think of in recent years is that show Chernobyl from Hbo which was excellent like 1 of the best little miniseries I've ever seen. But. 20:10.44 Ozzy Yeah. And the americans to some extent even the americans you know even though that took place in the United States it was about a soviet you know, family living as spies here. 20:15.37 Randall And terrifying. 20:24.38 Dave Yeah, but this um this game stalker isn't it's another example of ah this development team is ukrainian so they're they're pulling from their own culture. They're pulling you know I don't know where these people grew up but like. I find it hard to believe you could not grow up under the shadow of this like you know disaster that happened in your home country. Ah especially, it's it's interesting to think like as an american like our country is so fucking big that like. Something like this could happen and it's it's it's almost like a lifetime away but and not saying Ukraine is small but it is you know relatively small from my perspective so people growing up under the shadow of this this kind of you know it's been hanging over everything that they ah you know. Hanging over their lives is what I'm trying to say and so ah, this this game I always wondered like how real world was it like how how far over the the line into like sci-fi horror or whatever did it cross but it sounds like you know. You're fighting monsters and stuff like that. But it sounds like the more grounded stuff is um, pretty real world. 21:45.81 Ozzy Well I will say I mean when you see the trailer to Stalker to I mean one of the things I really was intrigued by is that it does keep that kind of very slavic flavor. Um I think it's stuck in development hell now. But. 22:01.11 Ozzy You know I I would really love to see it I think it's coming to game password or the like whenever it's released. Um, but the thing that scared me away from soccer was that from what I understood the mechanics were very obtuse. It's a very hard game and so I kind of shied away from it. But you know, kind of hearing Randall talk about it now. It just feels like that's. Something I should get over and just try to play it. 22:23.45 Randall I Mean the the game in itself while it it you can make it easier for yourself it. It's actually I think it's a pretty accessible game. It just appears to be difficult. Um, and it's kind of by design. 22:40.62 Randall Ah, that way because the game also really tries to hammer home. The the absolute resilience of the ukrainian people to even live through um, a situation like this where the exclusion zone has now turned into um, okay. So we're still under you know soviet the the soviet shadow how are we going to take this situation and make the best out of it so there are people that go out into the zone which is what it's called and ah like acquire artifacts based in you know pure science fiction. That um and I think I think it was either Ozzy or Dave that that mentioned the um, what was it the my brain is escaping me right now. Ah it had to it had to deal with um the paranoia there we go. 23:36.47 Randall Like a lot of the the objects that they collect are are based in um, in Soviet history of Paranoia like oh the the Americans have have this like fantastical ability to to spy on all of their people. Um and they talk about that. Kind of stuff in the game as Well. Where um, you know the the Russians are just as terrified of the zone as they are of the Americans and just how the people deal with with both situations at once. 24:08.99 Dave Cool. So yeah, we've got stalker shadow of shadow of Chernobyl yeah shadow shadow of Chernobyl. Okay, all right? That's what I was. That's so as what I was thinking I was like that sounds that. 24:17.56 Ozzy Shadows over Chernobyl a romantic saga taking place in Ukraine. 24:26.97 Dave Doesn't sound right like the right tone yeah shadow of Chernobyl all right Ozzy what did you bring for this. 24:32.10 Ozzy Well I kind of grouped it into different categories because I again as I said I found it a little bit difficult to just really find games that really did this in a very meaningful way. But the first category that I kind of looked at was just. Stories derived from in a way native american culture and when I say american I don't mean necessarily United States but just american in the sense of America as a whole. Um, even though I'll talk about latin America separately. 24:57.92 Dave Right? so. 25:04.10 Ozzy But the first one that that I saw and that came to mind I think it's probably the best example of of really being able to communicate cultural heritage in a meaningful way and that's a game called never alone or kisima in in getchuna which translates ah in the um. Nu piac language which is the native alaskans to I am not alone and this is a game that came out in 2014 and it's very much in the limbo kind of mold where it's a puzzle platformer and you play at a native girl you know new piac girl called Nuna and she's you know. 25:33.70 Dave Okay. 25:43.10 Ozzy Accompanied by her her Fox and you basically go through this land. You know this very snowy winter landscape of Alaska and you see stories and you you learn stories of the indigenous people. But what I find fascinating about this particular game is that it was created. In collaboration with the the inupac people and you actually unlock developer documentaries interviewing the new piac people and telling them the elders telling their stories. You know that relate to what you're playing. 26:19.86 Ozzy And literally you know you you unlock these are the unlockable. So I think this is the very best form of unlockables is was like okay this was our influence here are the people that we consulted in order to tell you about the stories. Um, so it's based on this um you know cultural folkloric tale that was told ah by Robert Nasro Cleveland 26:39.25 Ozzy It's a collection of stories called the stories of the black River people and really this is what the game is and and the sad part is that the developers were actually funded. You know by the the new Piac ah people um and the cook inlet tribal council and this is the only game they ever made So I feel like the game didn't do well enough. 26:59.30 Ozzy Unfortunately but this is probably about the best example of trying to manifest or bring to a greater audience the stories of native people that it's just not frequently told at all. Um, so it's a short game. It's going. For sheep. You know you may even have it because it's been part of a bunch of humble bundle deals. Um I understand that a Sql was announced maybe a year ago but it hasn't been released but I think it's one of the best examples of you know, being able to tell the stories that are at risk of disappearing. Because they are just not enough people you know, telling them and and that's really something that fascinates me because really stories culture heritage is only as good as memory holds. But if you put it down. Either in writing or better yet put it down into a video game in which you can actually connect with younger generations and an even broader audience because you don't have the language barrier I think you could really make the stories kind of immortal in a way. Um, and so I think this is one of the best examples of this particular situation and and this particular kind of docu style game approach where it's still fun. It's still a puzzle platformer but oh by the way you know you're really getting to absorb yourself in in this native you know and folklore culture. So. 28:25.10 Ozzy That's kind of the first one that I wanted to to just kind of shout about. 28:27.78 Dave Yeah, that's real cool like the the fact that they you know consulted the people who know the stories the best and then it it sounds like it sounds like it it like walks the line between like edutainment and like video games about. 28:29.73 Randall Um, yeah. 28:46.83 Dave You know cultures in history and stuff but more on the video game side. It just happens to be that like the story in this game is these you know these folk tales and history and stuff like that. Ah as opposed to like you know I'm picturing you know an edutainment where it's like you're going to. You're going to play this. 28:56.82 Ozzy Yeah. 29:05.48 Ozzy Ah, you're gonna learn boy. 29:06.72 Dave Yeah, you're going to learn and this is this is technically a video game but you're the the reason you're here is to learn um with this sounds like a perfect game for this topic here. This is ah a culture and a history that I would bet most people listening to this myself included know absolutely nothing about and. 29:10.73 Ozzy Yeah, yeah. 29:25.33 Dave Like you said the fact that they're able to make a video game and put it out there I feel like you know it's tough to get a game out there for tons and tons of people to play and buy and like you said I'm looking at the reviews it got pretty middling reviews didn't. You know I if it's the only thing they ever made. Then maybe it didn't sell well like you said, but um I I think I think making video games is like a unique way for people to get these types of stories out there as opposed to like. How difficult would it be for these same creators to make a movie and like mass produce a movie about this type of thing I feel like you know making video games is really fucking hard and it's an accomplishment anytime anyone finishes a video game and sends it out to people but that. 30:04.67 Ozzy Yeah. 30:19.68 Dave Gives you like a unique opportunity to spread it like further than I think a movie or something like that or ah, a book would reach a lot of people so this is cool I like this. 30:30.63 Ozzy Well well and and you say middling reviews. But I think if anything it was probably divisive in a way because you know you're a gamer gave it a 10 out of 10 Um, others gave it an 8 Um, when I looked at some of the Youtube reviews on that. 30:48.50 Ozzy They were all very positive. So I feel like you know, just reading between the lines. This might have been a game that came out at the wrong place wrong time and reviewers being reviewers they were looking for something more gamy perhaps or something that was more innovative whereas I feel like if you just look at it as hey I am going to. Immerse myself into this experience that I am not at all familiar with then you might come away thinking. Wow this was really fucking cool. Um, so so that's kind of where it seems like I land. Um, so it's a quick 2 hour 2 to 3 hour game so it's if anything worth playing just to learn something new. Um. 31:08.74 Dave Right. 31:24.28 Dave Yeah, and just to give a little bit of context on the reviews. The parts that you are trying to highlight here. You know showcasing this this culture in history and the documentary style videos and stuff that's the stuff that everyone seems to love. 31:26.35 Ozzy Yeah. 31:41.98 Dave About the game and then the gameplay is a little bit more divisive as these like you said limbo and inside style games. Um Gameplay is pretty hit and miss in a lot of those types of games. But it seems like the most important part about this. They got that right. 31:44.64 Ozzy Yeah. 31:59.70 Ozzy Yeah, and just 2 2 quick hits on native americans there's one called when rivers were trails. It's free on itch high o and it takes place in the 1890 s in the trail of tears. Um, so it's very similar to um, ah what? what was the game where the water tastes like wine. 32:15.66 Dave Oh yeah, yeah. 32:17.35 Ozzy Um, which which I wasn't a huge fan of I thought that it was a very flawed game but I did like some of the stories that I told but this is basically again a game talking about indigenous culture native american cultures and it brings in you know those native american writers to tell those stories. So one. It has a pretty cool art style and 2 it's actually using the stories from this very you know authentic you know source so I find that to be very helpful and the other one that I just kind of wanted to like put out there just as ah as a cameo of sorts is prayy from the thousand and six um mind you this is a sci-fi game. 32:54.90 Ozzy But I loved loved loved that. That game had a native American protagonist and it's a shame that we never saw a sequel in that line because one of the things that I love about that game is that it starts out on an Indian reservation and your main character is just fed up with being on this reservation and it just kind of. 33:13.52 Ozzy A time when that wasn't seen enough you know to be placed right? there in a reservation where that just wasn't you know, put out there I found that to be very cool. Of course it then ended up being something completely out of this world quite literally? Um, but I like the fact that it started out from that very unusual spot. 33:30.51 Dave Yeah. 33:32.58 Ozzy Um, and I hope that someone else tells that story. 33:38.21 Dave Absolutely yeah, that's in it. It's a shame that that that that game is one of those that like people who played it remember it fondly for stuff like that and then for people like me all I know about it is that you know they made arcane made Prey in 2017 and They were mandated to name the game pray as like a spiritual successor or some shit to to that game against their wishes. That's really all I know about that game which is a shame. Um. 34:09.62 Ozzy Yeah I mean look. It's not a very good game I find that the game really was hurt by the fact that it was in development hell for so long. Um, the developer at the time was just not going through very easy times. Um, and it was just kind of salvaed together almost like a duke Nookin forever type of situation. Um, but it does have some cool ideas and ah and again I mean it has this very very interesting character gameplay itself I mean it has like I said some very cool ideas but it doesn't really come together at the end. Um. But it's worth applauding that it was doing this way before anyone else was doing it. 34:44.37 Dave Sure, Yeah, Absolutely um, let's see which of my remaining games I So I feel like I kind of took some of the easy ones up at the top of the list because I made the the dock before I sent it to you guys? Um, but. Ah, let's ah I haven't talked about sleeping dogs on this podcast before let's talk about sleeping dogs. Um, ah ah. 35:01.94 Randall Literally the legit One of the best gta style games ever fucking made. 35:03.75 Ozzy Let's let's talk about sleeping dogs. The whole reason why I'm here today. 35:14.29 Dave Exactly yeah, this is made by united front games. Um, and it's set in contemporary Hong Kong and Randall kind of gave the pitch its gta in Hong Kong that's basically what the game is but um, crucially not set in an american city. Ah. You know, not set in New York or Miami or something like that. Um, and I liked the story in sleeping dogs way more than I have ever liked a gta story the story and tone I felt is way more my speed in sleeping dogs and it takes it takes advantage of. Hong Kong setting to tell its story too. Um I've ah been to Hong Kong several times traveling have some good friends that live in Hong Kong still it's it's a cool place and it has a really interesting history and I think that the history of um, you know. British colonialism and chinese influence. All mashed together makes for like a very interesting culture there and you can see it when you visit Hong Kong and you can see it in sleeping dogs despite the fact that this is a you know, um, a mafia. Crime drama story. So it's not like a ah realistic story of like the everyday people in Hong Kong but ah, that kind of influenced the british influence on Hong Kong is on full display the foreign influence on Hong Kong as in full display in the story of sleeping dogs. Um. 36:43.96 Dave So just to like give the reason why it still fits in this category despite being kind of a ridiculous story.. The setting is really fucking cool and it's just it's it's one of those games. It's a cool feeling to play a game set in a. Place realistically recreated a version of a place that you've been in real life and that you are familiar with and I got that while playing sleeping dogs in a rocks. 37:09.65 Ozzy Yeah, well, but go ahead round. 37:11.55 Randall Yeah, but I was just going to say my favorite part about the entirety of sleeping dogs is um I Really love Mafia Movies I Love Mafia games the Mafia series itself. It's an amazing set of games and when I played. 37:28.86 Randall Sleeping dogs in it. Um, one of my favorite things in in the type of history was seeing how they portrayed the chinese mafia in in that game from what I remember um, it's it's incredibly interesting to see the like. Parallels ah between the the 2 types of groups. Um, even though they would have never interacted with each other because they like the the like the mafia that most people know versus the mafia that ah is portrayed in that game I guess you could not you could call it something else, but that's um. Descriptor I'll use it. Um, you're like huh. There is what it feels like to be western influence and something that would have never been influenced by western sensibilities or culture. Um. 38:20.71 Ozzy Well I think I think the distinction as well is that you know you could have a game set in Hong Kong that would still feel inauthentic. Um I think where the game went above and beyond was that it really tried to replicate not only the city itself but kind of the little. Details here and there that that make this city tick in a way. Um, first of all I mean they speak you know in in in cantonese from time to time so they go from english to cantonese and they say swear wars in Cantonese and I had not seen that. Have not seen that in many games where they feel so comfortable just going outside of english and granted I mean of course english makes sense to be spoken here because the english presence was so strong in Hong Kong for so many years but you can see the melting pot of yeah. 39:17.50 Ozzy We have an english presence but we're still asian in this particular way I'm not going to say any particular nationality other than Hong Kong um and so you see that you also see for example, the emphasis on karaoke you know where you can actually go and do karaoke where it's a minigame. But. 39:21.73 Dave Yep. 39:33.71 Ozzy This is something that's important to these people I mean this is the way that they kind of you know, have this communal activity and it's through karaoke and I think the most interesting part to me about sleeping dogs. It's okay, it's kind of a rip off of infernal affairs. Um, that. Very awesome trilogy of films of Hong Kong films with Lao um, and I forgot the other actors name. Um, terrific if you haven't seen it. There. The films that ah the departer was based on. Um so the departer was a remake of infernal a affairs 1 so basically a ripoff you have this this cop this american cop um that infiltrates the triads in Hong Kong but the the awesome part about this is that it's not only a recreation of Hong Kong culture but in particular it's a recreation of the immigrant experience. Because me as an immigrant I came here when I was 10 to the United States it really speaks to the fact that way is a hong kong man born in Hong Kong that ended up emigrating to San Francisco in order to find a better life with him his sister his sister kind of goes off. You know and and and gets into really bad. You know situations and unfortunately she dies then he comes back to Hong Kong and he's trying to reintegrate himself into this old culture nominally because he's infiltrating it as part of his operation. 41:02.77 Ozzy But Realistic. It's because he wants to reconnect with this culture and you see that kind of division between those two Worlds It's more about than just hey I am really liking being with this gang of criminals that I happen to actually really like no it's about I am getting in touch with my original culture I am getting in touch with my childhood friends. And they matter to me and it feels like trying to reintegrate yourself into that culture is almost like being on their cover because you can't really be that person anymore and that's really the immigrant experience at Core. You don't really fit either way because to the other side you're seeing as a foreigner. 41:40.10 Ozzy And to them you're seeing as someone that is another yet, you're no longer part of us anymore you know and I feel that sleeping dogs in particular does that. So so well and there are some like storyline threats there that that make me think that. The developers were really trying to tap that nerve because for example I mean there's this character that you could romance and she's played actually by ah Emma Stone you know academy award winner Emma Stone um and she's you know an american girl. That's you know, kind of backpacking through through Hong Kong or staying Hong Kong and you start kind of dating her. You start kind of going out and then you find out that she's only into you because it has she has this asian fetish you know and it kind of speaks to this very real experience of like are you seeing me as a person or are you seeing me because you know you like what I represent so I feel like the developers you know really had their finger on this nerve and it's. 42:23.26 Dave Please. 42:37.54 Ozzy Such a shame that this game didn't do better because I think it's not only one of the best gta likes I think it's one of the best games of all time to be quite Frank um, and a large part of that is because yeah, some of the elements in the story are ridiculous. 42:52.71 Ozzy But there's an authenticity in characters and lived in experiences there that I don't see very often not only in in games and and movies in any type of media. So um, big reason why I wanted to come here is is fully sleeping dogs really, you can get it for like three bucks most of the time so go play sleeping dogs I haven't seen. 43:07.36 Dave Ah, oh yeah, yeah. 43:11.79 Ozzy Anybody that played sleeping dogs and said yeah it was okay. So anyways I don't know if I went on a tangent there but that's that's why I think sleeping does restaurant is so strongly with me. 43:21.13 Dave Yeah, no, that's great stuff. 43:30.60 Dave I was just waiting to see if Randall had anything else about sleeping dogs. 43:36.91 Randall No I I mean it in general I think aussie kind of kind of covered like 90 like 5% of that like um, it's just it. It is a very interesting. Ah, spy glass into a culture that a lot of people maybe wouldn't wouldn't understand or wouldn't see normally um ah it it also kind of wears. Its um, it kind of wears its criticism on its sleeve um of of the the culture that it's surrounded by because I mean. 43:56.76 Dave Yeah. 44:11.75 Randall Not to like get into the real-world politics of all things but due to its location. Um in its recent. Um I would consider it recent in terms of how old Hong Kong is but it's more recent ah rejoining to China in the in the 90 s. 44:30.28 Randall Um, you know that there is pretty overt criticism of of the government in in that game. Um, that most people could probably tell that the games that I tend to enjoy that do talk about other cultures tend to criticize. Either the government or the like ah people who criticized the culture within those games. 44:53.97 Dave I think ozzy touched on um, like something that I had kind of taken for granted ah but something that is true about like the immigrant experience and especially. Experience of somebody who is from the place and then goes to another place grows up in the other place and then tries to come back and that is something that like I spent a long time overseas living in Korea but I did not have trouble integrating back into the us. But what I did notice is that the. Ah, koreans who like maybe they're born in Korea or maybe they were born in the us and then moved to Korea and try and integrate back. They have a a lot of times they have a really hard time with that and so the experience of the the main character in sleeping dogs sounds like it's you know, right? along. Those lines and something that I experienced kind of secondhand with people that I you know met and hung out with and learned their experience while living over there. So. That's great to to touch on here. Um, and it's something that like when I played the game I didn't key in on. Ah, perhaps I should replay it and feature it on the podcast here now that I have a podcast where I can dedicate the time and focus on stuff like that it in yeah, it's ah it's. 46:11.47 Randall Quote Unquote focus here police sleep dogs. 46:11.54 Ozzy Play sleeping dogs. 46:19.17 Dave I think warrior 64 on Twitter posts every time it goes on sale. So just follow warrior you'll know you'll get it for two bucks and you'll have a good time. 46:25.20 Ozzy Square Enix can get rid of it fast enough Square Enix was so disappointed with the sales that it's just giving it away all the time. 46:25.62 Randall The world's best bot. 46:33.74 Dave Ah, square Enix being disappointed with sales name a better combination. ah yeah Ah right ah Randall what's what's another one that you brought. 46:36.80 Randall Yeah, oh our final fantasy game didn't sell Bukoos I Guess it was a flow guys. 46:49.97 Randall So I guess I'll kind of combine 2 examples together because of how I wanted to incorporate them into this list. So um, I'll recommend. Dave and aussie for having actual like cultural examples that don't like kind of um, build off of fiction to use. Um I mean it's kind of a word salad but use allegory to then talk about culture. Um, but the. 47:16.53 Dave Oh. 47:20.71 Randall The 2 examples I want I'm bring up are this war of mine and ah Suzerain so this war of mine is a survival strategy game I guess you could call it aroque-like I don't want to call it that it's mostly just a survival strategy game and Suzerain is a political. Would almost call it a political thriller strategy game. Um, and I'll I'll describe both games in tandem and then why I picked them for for my list. So a lot of people probably know what this war of mine is if you don't I I almost want you to pause this go find it on. 47:59.16 Randall 1 of the bundles that they've probably put their game on for free, especially during the beginning of the Ukraine like um like I don't know what the politically correct way of talking about it. But I'll just say like there. Yeah yeah, well I was going to say invasion. Um, but. 48:10.96 Ozzy Ukrainian War man I mean just say call it like it is yeah. 48:12.50 Dave Yeah, yeah. 48:18.83 Randall Anyways, ah they they were. They were actually giving that game away for people to play it to use as an example. Um so with with that um, go play it real quick and then come back to this but this war of mine. Ah, is a perfect example. Um built on the ramifications of global powers not understanding what things do to the to the small people. At home. Um, and susarine it is showing what the local ah ramifications are for the decisions that global powers can make as well. So with this war of mine. It takes place in a fictional city where a war has broken out. Ah, there is an invading army that is completely just destroying the city while there are hundreds of thousands of citizens still living in in that city. Ah you control either a small group of survivors or a small group of like a family and it's the whole point is just to survive. You you know, raid houses that may have other people living in them. You can try to barter or you have to kill them. It's it's incredibly gut wrenching and ah the the main reason I wanted to bring this war of mine up is not because of just what the the game shows you. 49:54.81 Randall Um, since it takes place in a fictional city. It doesn't overtly tell you where it is but the developers have pretty much come out and said this is it even though this game is made in 2 14 the moment that Ukraine got invaded. They told people please just go play this game and this is going to be a 1 to 1 um. If if not a thousand times worse in real life. Um it and they they wanted people to understand this is how cultures are affected by it and this this will be a criticism western like globalism or imperialism. Spreading across the pond and then like ah like invading Iraq or um Iran something like that or Russia invading Ukraine ah, and it's just it. It boils the culture down to a single person. 50:52.97 Randall And then it shows you? Okay, how does what? what is 1 person left with it if everything around them has been destroyed. Um, and so it's a huge I feel like I'm just kind of talking in circles. But it's ah it's it's a big example on. When a person is able to survive in that type of situation that they bring with them a lot of their culture and the the game does show off a lot of kind moments where the characters will tell each other's stories during downtime and they use real-world examples in these um in these stories. Whether it be from like world war ii um or something similar Vietnam stuff like that. Um, and then I'll go ahead and shift to suzarene which is a strategy game real quick where you take place as a president of a fictional. Country called swordland ah it is an allegory for Yugoslavia that pretty much the only thing that they didn't say was that just calling it Yugoslavia um, and you take ah the role as the president and your job is to just make sure that your country doesn't die. 52:08.98 Randall Um, and you have to make decisions of your people coming to you about do I do I work with the people to to keep our history intact to to make sure you know the the people of of sort of and Understand. Um, ah you know I'm here with them I'm not trying to destroy our history I'm not cowtowing to um to you know Communism Capitalism All that fun Stuff. Ah, and it's It's an incredible case study on. 52:47.30 Randall How how people interact with with other cultures that don't necessarily care what the other culture thinks about them and just want to kind of push it onto them so but both examples is just oh hey, um. I believe my way of living is right? Um, so I don't care what you think I'm just going to push it on to you um, with Susorine. It's more political and it's you know there isn't a lot of death. It's just it's just stress. With being a president. But with this word of mine. It's the example of oh well I don't like your culture so I'm going to invade your country and kill all of your people. Ah and both both sets of developers have talked about how how much. The the influence of of places like Ukraine Iraq Yugoslavia have like all worked into allowing them to make the game that they wanted to to have real world examples and just how deeply saddened that. They had real world examples to point to. 53:59.80 Ozzy Well I mean and and've I've seen this war of mine I've got it it in the bal i've've I have it in my um in my backlog. Um, but I haven't been able to tell a tale from that particular segment of the backlog. Um, because I feel as I get older. Um, and I have a 2 year old daughter I feel like it's harder and harder to see that kind of suffering. Um and this war of mine is probably one of the best examples of how gut wrenching you know the world can be ah even if it's told in a fictional country. Um I think it's the parallels are very clear. And they're kind of timeless because it's really about War Refugees. It's about you know the victims of of you know, atrocious acts of violence and the older I get the harder it is for me to absorb that kind of media. Um, not only in media. But also you know in real life. You know I've had to limit my intake of news. You know with the whole. 54:56.20 Ozzy Conflict in the Middle East because it's just very harsh to to kind of take all that suffering and you know I think I've done my part in in knowing what's happening and being able to talk about what's happening but it's very hard for me to experience that in video game form. Um, because I just don't necessarily want to. 55:10.86 Dave Yeah. 55:15.55 Ozzy Go through that gut wrenching emotional punch. 55:18.63 Dave And this ah this studio specifically with this war of mine. They deal in this specific like bleak type of game because they also made frost punk which is like 1 of 1 of the bleakest games I've ever played in a. 55:30.88 Randall And I love it. 55:34.34 Dave Possible future game on tales from the backlog because now that I again now that I have a podcast to to dig into it. There's a bunch of interesting stuff to talk about in frostbunk I also own this war of mine and haven't played it yet and. Just no great reason probably except for kind of like you said Ozzy like I'm looking at my games on my switch and I'm like I could play this war of mine or I could play shovel night. Well ah yeah, but ah, it's it. It is a game that I feel like I should play to. Um. 55:57.72 Ozzy Shovel Knight it is. 56:07.84 Dave Get this kind of experience this this studios from Poland by the way. So even though they're not you know involved in ah, a conflict right now. They certainly have their share of suffering in their past as well. So its yeah, this is a great example and suzerain sounds interesting too. From that kind of like management perspective like you you have the 2 scopes like you have the president all the way down to like the individual in this war of mine. So those are good examples and good examples of like yeah they're not like they don't come out and say we're set in. This specific real-w world place but it is not hard to just put a real place on those games and imagine those as those real historical types of settings. So yeah, these are great examples. 57:02.45 Randall Yeah, um I guess to to finally like Hammer the point home with both of them. Um, and to to echo what you said Dave ah, all it all. It would take was for one of the developers to say oh yeah, this is literally just set in x. 57:19.21 Dave Yeah. 57:20.25 Randall Or why?? um to um to get people to to understand what they're the point that they're trying to make um with with both of them it while not overtly cultural it the the message that they try to send is try to. Understand the people that you're interacting with um or where they're coming from before you decide that it's not um that it's not important I guess. 57:50.35 Dave Um, yeah, yeah, absolutely and like you know with that with this topic in the games that we're trying to highlight here. It's it's valuable to show people like I set it up as showing culture and history. But it's also valuable to show. Ah, real experiences that real people are having right now as we're recording this podcast so these are definitely valuable games to shine the light on for sure. Um, Ozzy what? Ah, what else do you have for this conversation here. 58:23.20 Ozzy But I also kind of want to touch about you know on on Latin American I Guess derived um you know stories or cultures. Um and the frustrating part that I find here is that a lot of the times. It's just used for aesthetic purposes. 58:40.10 Ozzy But not really to explain a broader culture. So one of the most common recurring themes is the mexican day of the dead I mean it's almost like a tropeian enough itself the day of the dead. Really I mean it's it's kind of blend at this point because it's used so often and you see grim fandanggo you know being. Perhaps the most notable one. Definitely a much better game than starcraft. Um, sorry, that's a king of games joke. Um, and um, yeah I mean grim fandango does that very well. But again I mean it's done by you know what used to be Lucas Arts um 59:06.13 Randall Good God man. 59:06.69 Dave Ah. 59:19.45 Ozzy And you know Tim Schafer and so forth and and they're very respectful and it's a very very cool setting and it really kind of echoes all this mythology of day of the dead. Um, but doesn't really go much more beyond just hey this is cultural flavor. Um or guacamelee. Um which use uses the day of the dead. Thematic as well as kind of the luchador type of mexican thematic. But it's done by a canadian studio which again doesn't really care that much about you know, kind of delving into the culture than just again using it for aesthetic purposes. You have games like Tunche um, which is a beat em up. 59:58.56 Ozzy Ah, that is by peruvian developers and it actually takes place in. You know, kind of the amazonian rainforest of sort. Um, but again I'm disappointed in that it doesn't really do anything with that culture other than just use it as flavor. Another game would be dandara. Um, then there is done by a brazilian studio and it kind of uses the afro american culture of Brazil to portray this warrior called Dandara that's actually based on a real life figure that was a freed slave in Brazil. Fought against um, her her slave owners. Um, but there I mean it's kind of a sci-fi tale just using this kind of figure as inspiration and and again it's it's kind of like a miss opportunity because there's so much to mine here and in particular what I wanted to kind of talk about is. That there are some cultures that would really make for cool video games even just beyond the cultural aspect. So for example, the west african ah duruba religion which is very integrated into caribbean cultures because so many of the slaves. Came from that west african region. So Senegal um Nigeria etc. Um, they have their own mythology which you know to the uninformed you would call for example, some of it santeria. Um, which is not the case. It's just you know, kind of the manifestations of energy etc. 01:01:30.22 Ozzy That this religion and this culture venerate but it has this whole pantheon of gods. You know that are you know that rival the Greek gods in terms of you know their their interesting aspects and their dynamics and their conflicts and their drama that could translate very well. Into a gut of warlike or a source like ah per se and it's just not mind enough. It's just really not not used enough. Um, so it's kind of you know I'm kind of putting out an apb you know to developers just hey it's a pretty cool setting. You know so rather than you know adapting. 01:02:08.48 Ozzy Dante's inferno you know a fourteenth century ah Poem. Um, you know, maybe you know adapt your god of warlike ah through west african guruba religion. So um, that's just kind of what I wanted to talk about you know, just the the. The fact that so many times we see this culture is portrayed in just a flavor or aesthetic point of view which I think there's some value in it because I want to see something other than just generic western um culture. Um, but I do wish that they would go a little bit deeper than that and and like I said there are just some settings that are very very cool that. 01:02:43.14 Ozzy You know some of them I am even missing because I just don't know about them so you know again just pick up a book you know, pick up a book about different cultures and and maybe use that for your next settings. Dear developers. 01:02:55.15 Dave Yeah, this one of those things where like I think as game development tools keep getting more accessible and widely distributed and um, hope more people get access to those tools. We. Should start to see more games about that now. The problem is finding them a lot of the time because there are so many games that come out on steam and so many like infinitely more that come out on itch every single day that finding those games can be really tough. But. I I think that like the fact that those tools are becoming more widespread gives more people an opportunity to kind of tell their story and I think that's great and hopefully we'll have better representation than guaca melee and stuff like that I i. Heard that criticism about guaca Mele and I didn't get far enough in that game and I honestly I don't know enough about that tradition to ah like have that criticism or respond to that criticism myself. But I have heard that other places too. 01:03:58.62 Ozzy And I am not Mexican but I am latin and so we share a lot of the same culture and the the thing that I can say about guacaelli. It's a pretty cute game. You know and I think mechanically is very good but within like 5 minutes of playing it. You can tell oh this wasn't made by. 01:04:17.70 Dave M. 01:04:18.50 Ozzy Ah, like like you know natives this wasn't made by an authentic group of of folks and and that's where I kind of go out it again like it's not an issue of cultural appropriation. It's an issue of like if you're going to use this. You should do it in a way that if someone who is a native or who knows well about that culture. Doesn't feel like oh you just kind of slap things on you know, without really taking the time to represent it in an authentic way and and you can really tell from the first five minutes that that's the case that you could tell that this was made by by people that were not from that area. Um. 01:04:53.81 Ozzy And that they did not in particular compare to like never alone or or the other games we've talked about they were not made on consultation with people. You know that do have that lived in knowledge I will say 1 game that is forgotten by history and time and that it's actually from my childhood. 01:05:10.95 Dave Okay. 01:05:13.20 Ozzy Um, and you can actually probably remember it because it was a demo on gex three. So there was a demo of it on gex and it was done by Crystal dynamics who are now better known for the tomb raider games. It's called aKuji the heartless and akuji. 01:05:31.16 Ozzy Is based on voodoo mythology and voodoo culture. So like Haitian Voodoo culture and the the cool thing about acuji. It's not a very good game but the cool thing is that it really buys into that culture. It's not you know taken into account any kind of you know western side of it. It's just like yeah it's fully immersed. In haitian vodoculture whether it's accurate or not I can't tell you but it did just submerge itself completely and freely into this particular culture to build this universe so cool kind of you know historical tidbit. You could probably find the game nowadays for like twelve bucks it's actually on Psen if you want to get it. And the ps 3 ps 1 classic if if you were interested in that. So if you want to see the game that crystal dynamics made between ga and soulriver this is it. 01:06:18.39 Randall Nice. 01:06:20.11 Dave Cool. Yeah I like the idea of um, kind of not watering the culture down for the audience just being 100% into it for sure. 01:06:32.11 Dave Would you guys say we go lightning round style through some other stuff. We want to mention before getting into our community submissions for this episode. 01:06:39.35 Ozzy Yeah man for sure. 01:06:40.43 Randall Sounds good. 01:06:43.57 Dave All right Um I will just briefly shout out a game that I have not played ah but I do know enough about it to bring it up on the show and that's kingdom come deliverance which is by warhorse studios they are from the czech republic and this is set in historical bohemia. Which is the region that later became the czech republic kingdom come deliverance is an rpg if you look at screenshots. It looks a lot like a skyrem type game but it is fully based in the history and realism of your like when your character starts. You can't fight. You're a piece of shit. It's it's one of those where it's like you have to learn I think you even have to learn to read in that game like you have to eat and drink that kind of realism and um I think they went I've I've read praise for them for going the distance as far as like. Doing their best to recreate an era in real history now you may be acting out an unrealistic story in there I don't know I haven't played it that game's like a hundred fucking hours long but um it is a really cool game I just wanted to shout it out. Kingdom come Deliverance. Um. 01:07:54.90 Ozzy And by the way made from some of the original developers of the original mafia game which Randall mentioned so they did that after breaking off from 2K Czech which used to be illusion stuff works so they were one of the original. Ah. 01:08:05.44 Dave Nice. 01:08:10.34 Ozzy In the developers in Thezek Republic and so they branched out into indian they did a go. You know they did ah um, not a golfund me. What's you call what you call that? yeah a kickstarter a kickstarter for that game and it was sold as ah skyrim or oblivion without fantasy. 01:08:17.95 Dave A kickstarter. 01:08:18.14 Randall A kickstarter. 01:08:25.79 Dave Right? Yeah and I think that game when it first came out was like a kind of broken buggy mess and they've really fixed it up as far as I know it it works now. So if you're interested in that ah you can go play it. 01:08:27.39 Ozzy Um, so I really appreciated that. 01:08:27.95 Randall Yeah. 01:08:43.11 Randall Yeah, um I guess I'll go ahead and do my lightning round real quick unless you wanted did you have any more and Dave cool. Yeah, um, the only other one that I had on my list. Um, at least at the forefront of my mind was metro 2033 01:08:45.70 Dave Um, yeah, nope. 01:08:59.92 Randall Ah, pretty much any of the the metro games except I guess I would really not say the last one because that 1 kind of jumps the shark in terms of the sci-fi elements and the the fantasy stuff. Um, but the first game ah bleeds ah russian culture. Um, not just. Like post ah Soviett um era culture. The the whole thing is ah as ah as russian as you could get the the whole game takes place in the Moscow metro um, which is one of it if if I'm not mistaken. It's one of the oldest. Ah. Like series of metro tunnels in the world. Um, and it's literally how the the country functions. So a lot of the the history and the stories told in the game while in that metro is is so deeply seeded ah in how it was built and how the people use it. Um, it's incredibly impressive and then um also there are plenty of political themes and faction conflicts in the game that um, how the the russian people were were like against the germans and everything in world war two. It's it's all it's all really great and yeah, no metro 23 3 was ah my other. 01:10:13.72 Ozzy Randall I think I cant remind that you like Eastern Slavic cultures about um people fighting back against repression I don't know I mean I this is just a wild guess here, but it seems like you may be into that particular theme. 01:10:14.46 Randall Thought. 01:10:26.80 Randall Oh totally, not. Ah yeah, no, this is just a coincidence I totally did This isn't like some of my favorite parts of history that surprisingly nobody actually fucking talks about like when people talk about War War Ii It's always about. Ah yeah, the Americans came in after. 01:10:26.50 Dave Ah. 01:10:45.14 Randall Pearl Harbor got bombed. It's like yeah, but do it are we going to talk about stalingrad. Are we going to talk about how that's probably 1 of. 01:10:48.70 Ozzy Hey hey call call of duty had the original styling grad level. You know that call of duty the one that we love to hate it had the styling grad level in the very first game. So. 01:10:54.63 Randall Um, that is. 01:10:54.98 Dave Ah. 01:11:02.30 Randall It's no that is still one of the best scenes in call of duty history I swear to god ah, and and it's it's so visceral I don't want to get into it too much. But oh my anyways eastern european culture. Um. Normally doesn't get talked about ah all that much unless it's in a negative context unfortunately or I can understand why don't get me wrong, especially with some of the stuff that I've already talked about on this podcast but like listen the history of. Ah, like the slavic people or eastern european people. It's incredible. What these guys put up with over the pest like 200 years alone 01:11:47.66 Ozzy But I guess on my side um lighting round I don't know how many picks I get so they've they've let me know um I will say first 1 Ah Cowan's gate very very very very fucking obscure PS 1 game never came out in the United States um 01:12:05.64 Ozzy But similar to what we have talked about it takes place on 9097 in the eve of the handover you know from the you know from from England from great Britain. Um, and it takes place in the kowloon walled city. 01:12:14.22 Dave Oh okay. 01:12:22.51 Ozzy That reemerges after it demolish and so it takes place literally within the walled city and it uses all this influence of fe shray you know and all these different kind of religious motifs of Yin and Yang and and you know buddhism etc to tell this completely batshit story that I can't tell you about because the game has not been fan translated. So I'm sorry I'm giving you a game that you cannot play or you can play but you're only gonna get like 25% of it. But my call here please translate this game I want to play this game. Please do it because it seems it seems so freaking. Cool um, just real quick. Another one. 01:13:01.57 Ozzy Mark of Kri is a forgotten ps 2 game done by Sony studios San Diego which are now just exclusively doing mlb the show games but before they were put on m mob the show duty they did this game which was a mixture of traditional hand drawnwn. 2 ddisney animation and polynesian culture and let me tell you this game is one of the best out there. It goes for like 7 or eight bucks you know physical on ps 2 and it has a sqquel rice with the casai go play it. It's a really really cool game. It has great animation. It has great archtyle. And it's basically taking place all in pollination culture. So really, really cool I would say go out and play it. 01:13:49.18 Dave Awesome! Yeah those ah those sound cool, especially the the kowloon walled city is one of my favorite settings in fiction. Um I would love to shout out a shadow run Hong Kong but there's almost no ah like. You're not going to learn anything from playing that game. It's just a It's just a fantasy cyber punk game. It's awesome, but you're not going to learn anything. Um, but yeah, yeah, those are great picks. Um, we're going to listen to a little bit of music and when we come back. We've got some submissions from the community from our Discord server. 01:16:15.35 Dave all right We're back and we're going to bring in some submissions from our. Community from the Discord server if you would like to take part in episodes like this and have your um thoughts be a part of the show you can join the discord server. There's a link down in the show notes. Um on top of you know, being a part of the show from time to time. We also have a. Thriving and active community and they're talking about video games and movies and life and stuff like that we would love to have you. It's it's ah a wonderful group of people again. There's an invite link down in the show notes without further ado. Let's get started with ah the first submission this is from Jake who is a patron of the show. From the pre-order bonus podcast a wonderful podcast. Highly recommended Jake shouted out Muacca which is from lienzo studios which is a 3 d action adventure game made by a mexican studio in conjunction with the Tara Hummara people sorry about my pronunciation jake of Northern Mexico about their culture and mythology. Ah Jake's actually a ah professor of um I believe latin american literature or something like that. So Jake's got the hookup for stuff like this. Um, this sounds really cool. Ah Ozzy you were kind of lamenting the lack of games that. 01:17:44.43 Dave Kind of go deep into the culture and stuff like that but sounds like we found one from Mexico. 01:17:50.59 Ozzy Well this is this is I mean I'm looking at it I'm like this is exactly what I need this is exactly what I was looking for um and from from what I'm looking at it here it it seems to be kind of a sell the like you know, kind of a 3d Zeldalike or Okami like if you if you if you will. 01:17:54.42 Dave Um, yeah. 01:18:05.96 Ozzy Um, so I'm really curious about it. It seems to only be going for $20 on the switch. So I might actually go and and dig into it I mean it's not that it may necessarily do something in terms of mechanics that is vastly different but sometimes all it takes is just doing you know, taking that template from you know, another. More successful video game and building something with authenticity. You know to to really make you stand out I don't put as much of a premium as reviewers do an innovation because we've seen how much that backfires you know back in the 2 d to three d transition. Everyone was pracing 3 d. 01:18:31.90 Dave Right. 01:18:44.31 Ozzy And putting down any to go be games and so you know again because reviewers are constantly looking for new experiences I feel like part of it is that reviewers review So many games that they're just looking for something different and they're just kind of trying to find something that stands out and again I mean I feel like. With this games I'm fine with doing something that's been done before if you're you know able to capture something in a very authentic and real way and and give me something that I haven't experienced before. 01:19:09.30 Dave Um, yeah. 01:19:11.19 Randall Yeah, yeah, so I guess we'll go into the the next one. Ah because I don't really have anything to add other than maybe maybe Jake should just ah, start dropping some like latin american ah or just latin ah. Ah, knowledge like in the in the discord I would like to learn more about that type of stuff. It's it's certainly a culture that I'm not super familiar with um, but yeah, so ah, the other mentions so we got Chrissy a patron from the retro hangover podcast. Also good friend. Ah. He mentioned dynasty warriors which I whatever he posted this I immediately went are you sure and everybody immediately went Randall shut up. This is definitely historical I don't know what the hell you're talking about and I was like you know what? fair? Yeah I mean. 01:20:00.17 Dave Um, it's historical in air quotes. 01:20:06.75 Randall From what I remember the early Dynasty Warrior games actually did like there were cut scenes that talked about like the actual conflicts that these generals and political figures had um. 01:20:20.62 Randall And then it just turns into ah ah you know, um a musoo game where they you just blow people up with your your spinning ah pikes and shit. Um and he also mention a romance of the 3 kingdoms series ah roughly the same vibe but it's like a completely different style of game I guess. 01:20:36.12 Ozzy Yeah, yeah, well I mean ah you you mentioned Dynasty Warriors being about you know your fantasy spinning cake I mean they both take the same setting. You know which is basically the 3 kingdoms era which was towards the end of the han dynasty in the second century in China. 01:20:39.88 Randall Ah. 01:20:52.98 Ozzy And they do different things with it. So the musso games the Dynasty Warriors games they're very much fantasy orientented but also fantasy orientiented in the sense that this is kind of in the traditional style of wuxia epics. Ah for shiny cinema you know wuxia being so important to them where you know even the historical epics have some. Element of fantasy to them. Um, so I think dynasty warriors is still very much even though we may you know laugh at it. But it's still very much even though it's done by Koit Techmo which is japanese I do feel like it still respects that kind of original you know cultural you know sense of this is how we present our stories. 01:21:30.87 Ozzy And it's all based on the original. Um, you know Romance of the 3 kingdoms novels which was written by Luo Gung Zhang. It's it's basically a so civilization type game. Um, really kind of manufacturing this 3 kingdoms period. In a more realistic setting and so it kind of really gives you a lot more flavor of what was a stake here you know between the states you know that were at war and you get to take part in it which I think you know the very best historical games tend to do that. You know like rooni Versalis or Crusader Kings etc they really put you into this time and place. Um, and are able to to make you feel like you're making decisions you know based on the stakes that applied at the time. So I do feel you like Chris Copp plain actually you know was not out of line here. Um, he you know he. 01:22:20.80 Dave We just like to give Chris shit sometimes. 01:22:21.71 Randall No, at 100% and to to kind of build off of the romance of the 3 kingdoms thing I'll just mention Total War 3 Kingdoms talk about historical historical accuracy. Ah like that that. The game literally has like actual historical texts within the game that you're supposed to read to understand how to play these these ah armies that you're controlling and these cities that you're building. Um, ah shiishishish. No no, no, no, no. 01:22:48.74 Ozzy Except I think it does have magic in it Randall? um. 01:22:53.95 Randall If you're letting Dynasty Warriors fly. We're letting total warfly ah um, and then. 01:22:56.85 Ozzy Ah, it's not. It's not exactly total war you know medieval or total war. Um Rome they've ever since they started doing the warhammer games I mean that's when they said Okay, maybe we can just add a few fireballs in here. 01:23:02.66 Randall Yeah, yeah. 01:23:12.70 Randall Now. Um, and then ah Chris' ' last um ah little plug here was assassins creed one of which was set in ah Israel Palestine Syria um. I guess this just kind of opens Pandora's box with talking about assassins' Creed. We've kind of avoided it the entire time. But um, yeah, so assassins creed. 01:23:33.35 Ozzy Well yeah. 01:23:35.31 Dave Ah, just want to shout out. This was also submitted by parallax puddles. So not to we don't want to skip you later puddles appreciate you writing in puddles also wrote in. 01:23:47.15 Dave Other Assassins creed games as well. So yeah, let's let's just open the Assassin's creed box. 01:23:52.57 Ozzy Well, yeah I mean because this is one of the games that I originally had on my list and and I had just kind of slotted them into the big franchisees doing you know cultural things in a way. Um, and I feel like ubisof is probably. The best that doing this in terms of they're the ones that kind of go to that. Well more more often than not um and you can go back to the prince of Persia games the prince of persia games even though they're still very fantastical and they're so seen through a western lens I mean it does still kind of portray this period or at least this mythology. That is not very often portrayed I mean you know, not like Aladdin or anything like t probablyli you know something where it's you know, taking place in pers show modern day Iran you know and and that kind of throughline that kind of lineage is seen in the assassin and street games and in particular the first game which is what Chris mentioned there the the. Very strong element that I was drawn to with the original assessment screed I was just completely enthralled by the possibility of a assassin screed and when it was announced I was over the moon. It was actually one of the first games that I got for the 360 and it was exactly what I wanted which is that. It gave me this very particular setting crusader era Middle East um and it tried to recreate this cities that you know still may exist like Damascus but they're not you know, really how they used to look like anymore and it just kind of. 01:25:20.83 Ozzy Puts you in that time in place and I think the very best Assassin Street games managed to do that And in particular I'm thinking about origins I think Origins is probably the best example of doing you know this kind of cultural slice of life. Well not only because it manages to replicate. That whole Egyptian Era Very authentically I mean I didn't live there I wasn't you know born at that time. Ah, but I could what I could muster is very authentic, but it also takes the extra step of giving you this optional you know features. 01:25:59.99 Ozzy You can actually see a tutorial of like of like a documentary of different knowledge about all the different recreations you know of this world that they built so you can you know, read about um the the burreal practices you know and how they built the pyramids and how they would build the tombs etc and you know. The funny thing is that I played origins when I was living in New York and then I went to the museum the metropolitan museum of art which has a huge egyptian um component and and and wing and I was just thinking. Oh yeah I read about that in assassin street origin so I read about this or this is this or this is that. I think that the very best assassins create games do that and what is so exciting about assassins create games. Even though you know they've kind of lost their luster is thinking where are they going to set the the world now because I want them to recreate that world I want to be able to walk the street. Of Damascus in the Twelfth Century I don't again I mean it's so rare to find that experience that I think this is where video games shine and I wish that Assassin Creed didn't go so bat check crazy with his futuristic storyline and the way that they change you know. 01:27:09.62 Randall Right. 01:27:13.90 Ozzy Gameplay like they change pants. Um, but I think in the very best cases. Assassins create is able to put you in a time and place in a very what you would feel would be authentic way. 01:27:28.31 Randall Yeah, ah go ahead. Dave. 01:27:31.20 Dave I was just going to say like I yeah I agree I think that like the best thing that Assassins Creed did for me, especially like the first one and um, kind of with black flag. You know set in the caribbean and stuff. Um I didn't play origins. But. The best thing that the assassins creed games did for me was give me curiosity to go then learn more about that history on my own because I when I was making my list I didn't really consider Assassin's creed because maybe it was because of the um. The like how do I want to say this the lack of commitment to the historical setting. It feel it I always felt like in those older games especially that just when you feel like you're getting into it. They pull you out for like the future storyline with Desmond and I I hated that. 01:28:23.76 Ozzy Oh yeah. 01:28:24.78 Randall Um, yeah. 01:28:26.74 Dave Throughout the entire series every game I played I always groaned when we got pulled into the future Timeline. So I like I wish they would have committed more to giving you that that old time and place but it did inspire me to go learn a little bit about those places on my own. Ah, which I will give it credit for. 01:28:46.22 Ozzy But I don't think that the authenticity necessarily is an issue Dave I think that the authenticity is there. They have historians they have consultants that they work on. They try to replicate the the cities based on old ah maps of the city etc. The problem is that it's constantly undermined by this batches. Story. Um, and and the futur isly part. You know. 01:29:03.00 Dave Right? Yeah I I wasn't questioning like the authenticity of the spaces that they created. It's just like I wish they would have committed to that and only that I don't want to be pulled out of that for like this. Weird future storyline that they're trying to tell every couple hours that that's the issue I don't have an issue I don't have yeah. 01:29:21.98 Randall Yeah. 01:29:24.69 Ozzy Trust me I lamented every day I every every single time I look at us as on screen I think to myself Why the hell can't you guys Just not do something with this future storyline and just kind of do a historical epic. 01:29:34.62 Dave And they they heard the criticism the entire the entire time since what like 2008 something like that they heard 7 the entire time they heard that criticism and the entire time they doubled down on that shit. 01:29:35.98 Randall Yeah, right. 01:29:42.87 Randall 7 it was 2007 01:29:43.56 Ozzy Seven seven 01:29:49.80 Ozzy Guys assassin crew is 16 years old think about that. 01:29:49.96 Randall Pretty much. Yeah, don't don't get me started but ah 1 ah point that I'll also give assassins creed 1 credit for is it takes place in a in a place. 01:29:54.73 Dave Yep, yeah. 01:30:08.78 Randall That was incredibly controversial at the time. Um, and only seen in a negative light and you you be and to give Ubisoft all the credit in the world. They took a place that a lot of folks especially in the western world hated for a lot of reasons and they showed how. 01:30:12.10 Dave Um, yes. 01:30:27.40 Randall Beautiful. The culture could be from a different perspective of somebody who lived there who breathed there. Um and it was just I think I thought I found it extremely impressive when I was a kid because you know I grew up around people who only like my mom didn't even want me to buy the game. Because of where she knew where it took place. It was that bad. 01:30:48.10 Dave Um, real quick before we get off of Assassins Creed is Ozzy is what you were mentioning is that the museum mode where you can like okay a couple other people in the discord server shouted that out. Um, specifically. 01:30:51.36 Randall Okay. 01:30:56.24 Ozzy Yeah, the museum mode. Yeah museum. Ah. 01:31:02.93 Dave Ah, dezba and then in parentheses the other adam so shout out Adam Slash Dezba for shouting out the museum mode of ah origins and odyssey so yeah, assassin's creed will allow it. Yeah. 01:31:18.50 Randall Yeah, ah that was definitely a lightning round. 01:31:22.52 Dave Yeah, well yeah, if we we I think we had to talk about Assassins creed a little bit in this. They are the most famous franchise doing these real world locations. Um. 01:31:32.19 Randall Right. 01:31:33.67 Ozzy Yeah, and okay, so so I have here from Alex from the first five Youtube channel he mentions venba and he also Mentions Raji an engine epic which incidentally was also mentioned by this chimera. So thank you this chimera and both of them are dealing with indian culture. 01:31:48.00 Dave Right. 01:31:53.12 Ozzy Um, he also mentions the metro series ah necro barista which he says has a lot of fancy but also a lot of Australia having' played it and then the the historical strategy games which which we have discussed in some capacity ropa universalal europa ni universalsalis crusader Kings in total war three kingdoms. Um, so those were pretty cool I thought about Raji an ancient epic and I feel like that definitely isn't the wheelhouse if we were talking about I just didn't know enough about it to be able to to speak to it. But I do remember that it was put together I think in one of the Xbox showcases if I recall correctly for game pass and. 01:32:20.10 Dave Yeah. 01:32:31.39 Ozzy And I think a big selling point of it was just this is taking place and you know very much within this Indian tradition. Um, so it's very cool that you know it seems like some people you know, really found that to be interesting. 01:32:41.86 Randall Yeah. 01:32:44.60 Dave Yeah, the ah one of the selling points for raji in particular was again, it's made by people making a game about their own culture and stuff which which is great and when it came out. It was I feel like there were tons of people that were like finally. Someone made a game about this. 01:33:00.91 Ozzy Yeah, yeah. 01:33:01.98 Randall Yeah, and I'll I'll just put a small point on the the necker barista thing. Yeah it it is a lot of fantasy in a lot of Australia. It takes place in Melbourne and just how incredibly hipster. Um. Melbourne is and how ah absolutely addicted to to coffee. Um that that whole whole situation is um and also talking about like the native. Um I I think voodoo would be the the incorrect. Um, um, like. 01:33:40.47 Randall What's a comparison but it's like that there is a real significance for like the native folk in like necromancy and stuff like that so that it all the fantastical elements are still seeded deep within Australia's history but um it necrobarista is also a really good time. 01:34:23.21 Dave yeah, it's interesting like we we talk about a game that's. 01:34:27.91 Ozzy What what is it. 01:34:38.56 Dave I like the description very fantasy but also very australian um talking with our our australian friends and you know the podcast community and the Discord server and stuff not many games set in Australia even the even the australians are like I don't I don't fucking know so I wanted to shout out an upcoming game that. Looks cool I don't know how steeped in australian culture. It's going to be but it's called broken roads which is a disco elysium fallout style game set in like post-apocalyptic Australia that sounds cool and apparently. There are just not enough games set in Australia for you know as I feel like I don't know I I feel like Australia at least in like my upbringing like australian humor and influence and stuff is. Bigger than like its impact on like you know games set there and and media set. There seems to be so I'm glad that like we we might have 1 coming out I hope that came out right? I'm not trying to diminish Australia I love you all. But um, it was surprising to me where I was like yeah any australians nova game set in Australia that we can mention they're like. 01:35:54.16 Ozzy She. 01:35:54.83 Dave Nope Don't know so. 01:35:56.26 Randall Yeah, unfortunately I guess fortunately um, however you want to take the point but a lot of games that do take place in Australia tend to be about like wildlife conservatism like ah it like zoo management systems stuff like that just because of how. 01:36:12.28 Dave Um. 01:36:14.28 Randall How how deeply tied Australia is to conserving the wildlife that it does have um so correct but like a lot of the a lot of the games that are based in Australia like they don't overtly say it. But whenever you play them, you're like oh yeah, this is. 01:36:19.55 Dave Ah I was going to say based on how fucking wild The wildlife is there. 01:36:23.82 Ozzy Next. 01:36:33.20 Randall This is extremely Australian but it's ah it's a management game about taking care of animals there you go. 01:36:36.83 Ozzy Shout out to kao the kangaroo and tie the Tasmanian tiger. 01:36:38.96 Dave Gotcha yeah. 01:36:45.40 Dave We we've got another submission here from nomad from the retro wildlands podcast. What's up nomad ah nomad shouts out spec ops the line which is set in Dubai um, and when nomad sent this I was like yeah, it'll know. But. We'll hear him about um says he had never really seen the scope of Dubai before playing the game kind of focusing on ultramodern architecture and hinting at some of the social divides within the city even after you know in that game Dubai is swallowed by like an apocalyptic sandstorm. So like. Reading that description I'm like yes that that makes a lot of sense I feel like the the scope of like just those buildings and like you said the social divide there and stuff. Um I'll allow it. Nomad you're okay, okay, okay. 01:37:38.63 Ozzy I won't I won't dave I know I feel like look I mean this is a retelling of apocalypse now and I feel like really you know that that story is really about colonialism um, and you know, kind of transposed to american I guess. You know war on terror times. Um you know applicable to the Middle East so in a way it's kind of the quintessential criticism of western encroachment. So in a way. Yes I mean it's it's a it's a critique of western you know mores you know being pushed on these people. You know who have no choice but but I don't think you know it really does a lot with you know the culture and Dubai um, you know other than just having you know cannon fodder for for for your your character which again I mean it turns it turns back it turns back you know the story on. 01:38:27.85 Dave Not from that. 01:38:33.73 Ozzy You know the subversive element of you know, maybe you really are the bad guy but but I don't think necessarily it it goes into you know what these people are going through necessarily. 01:38:42.23 Dave Not from that aspect. No, but just from the pure scope of like maybe you heard about Dubai and then you play a game that's set there and you're like wow. Okay I I see how big these places are like that that simple aspect of it and you. You do get a little bit later of like how people are suffering in that game but it's it's because of stuff that you're doing. So yeah. 01:39:06.22 Ozzy You're doing here. You're inflicting the suffering I. 01:39:07.18 Randall Yeah I I I would say it's a complete. Ah, it's a complete opposite but also a friend of this war of mine and in that aspect because instead of playing the survivor you are in fact, playing the problem. 01:39:23.21 Dave Yeah, um, shout out ah real quick to the episode of tales from the backlog I did about spec ops the line with our mutual friend Chris Coplien from retro hangover 1 of my favorite spoiler section discussions that we've had on the show. 01:39:39.55 Dave So I'll just shout that out. 01:39:39.94 Randall Um, yeah. 01:39:40.91 Ozzy That game Honestly, that's one of those games like you know I guess this war of mind where it was just grueling to play um and they got to a point where I was just like I'm going to have to force myself to finish this game. Um, but you know it is what it is but I get I get where ah no might is coming from and I admire it I don't. 01:39:47.50 Dave Um, yeah. 01:39:58.84 Ozzy Agree with it necessarily. But um, but I'll you know I'll accept that that argument. 01:40:05.66 Randall And then so we have another submission here and this is from Chris Aka Vertigo to hell also vertigo to hell on Twitch so please drop a follow there. Um, they mentioned home suite home a horror game set in Thailand and is loaded with spooky tie folklore. That they never knew about actually think um, somebody on the retro hangover podcast just got finished streaming home suite home. So ah, double plug. You could probably ah go watch 2 different types of reactions to to these games I don't know if ah Vertigo to hell's stream did it at all. But. 01:40:42.75 Randall Um, if if they didn't this is now this is now the calling card to to go do so um then they also mentioned detention and devotion which we talked about at the beginning. They also mentioned kingdom come deliverance. Ah so they seem to like a lot of the same games that you do Dave. 01:40:58.83 Dave I do know that Chris did stream like I don't know if he finished the playthrough of kingdom come deliverance but he streamed a lot of it. So if you want to go check out what that game is like you can go watch some of Chris's videos assuming he has them saved somewhere. 01:41:17.99 Dave Um, and then yeah I would guess that he also streamed home sweet home that game looked pretty bad from what I watched on the ah the stream that retro hangover was doing but giving you the tie folklore is cool Thailand is a setting you never get in video games. 01:41:32.68 Ozzy Well I've I've seen the game pop up on sales and the log again and I always find like okay well this is maybe one of those filler games that pop up on the on the ehop or the playstation network. So. 01:41:47.50 Ozzy Now I'm a little bit more intrigued. So if I find that for a these enterprise I might pick it up and see what it's about. 01:41:53.65 Dave Yeah, well, ah that is all the submissions that we have ah for this topic. Um I appreciate everybody who wrote in again if you want to be a part of these all you need to do is join the discord server and I will. Put out the call every now and then for your submissions for these types of discussion type episodes that is all we've got so we just got a little bit of housekeeping to clean up here at the end Ozzy and Randall. Do you guys have anything that you want to plug anywhere that people can find you. 01:42:25.00 Randall Ah, go ahead. Ozzy 01:42:25.90 Ozzy Well you you can find you can find me on usually the retro hangover podcast this core that's kind of where I kind of relegate my my internet ah presence to nowadays and I'm there running the the retro hangover review crew. Ah, the hallmark of which continues to be our discussion on this corlicium. So um, you don't know what you're missing out if you didn't take a part in the great battle of this coalition of gnery 2023 um, you were forced to take us hide. Um, so if you want to be part of that anybody can join. We. Just play a game every month and we talk about it basically and we get to nominate games for the next um month so it's just a good opportunity to just kind of all collectively play a game kind of like a book of the month type thing but you know game of the month so you can usually find me there and would love to have more participating. 01:43:14.83 Randall Ah, you can find me in a bunch of different discords from local podcasters that ah have been on the tube before that is your that it that is the official title you use right? Dave the tube. Yeah, yeah, so. 01:43:27.78 Dave Yes, the tube. Yeah. 01:43:32.97 Randall I do hang out in Dave's discord I hang out in the retro hangover podcast discord the the oh my gosh, the good, the bad and the backlog pixel project radio I'm in all those I don't have anything into the plug other than those podcasts that I just mentioned. Ah, you should go follow them. You should go all go listen to them if you haven't already obviously I love Dave and thank you for allowing me to be here. Um, and I'll also double double plug the the like retro hangover review crew thing. Um. Will admit some of the games that get they get picked. Ah if we had more people participating we could have we could have better picks this this month was especially difficult I did vote for the pick but man it was it was rough to get through ah for for personal reasons. 01:44:24.86 Randall But please come join us and and vote on games play the games write a review. Um that that be that be super awesome to have more participation in that. 01:44:33.47 Dave Yeah, absolutely. 01:44:33.49 Ozzy Yeah, and we and we embrace democracy in the retro hangover Review Crusoe if a game gets picked. You have no one to blame by yourselves. So that's all I will say. 01:44:44.76 Dave That's right? Yep, um, yeah it it is a good time. So I'll go ahead and and third that plug I so that's not a real thing that people say I will support that plug to ah join the retro hangover discord join the retro hangover review crew. Yeah, the game of the month club over there. Um, you can also join the high score challenge if you're into high score challenges over there too. Um enough ah enough plugging retro hangover let me talk about myself for a little bit here. 01:45:17.29 Dave Yeah I I already gave the plug to join ah my discord server but I also have ah some other stuff that's really helpful such as going on your favorite podcast app and leaving a rating and review so if in the odd situation that someone went into their search bar and typed in games with. Real-world settings not the United States and Japan ah that would help juice the algorithm in my favor that would be great, but also you know if someone goes in and types in dead space. It'll help them find this podcast so ratings and reviews are super helpful if you want to support monetarily you can do so at patreon.com/RealDaveJackson and all patron supporters get to vote in polls for what games I do on the show. There are bonus episodes including I forgot to mention this before I talked about detention at the top of the show in October I did a bonus episode about detention. That's just Solo Dave talking about detention. So. 01:46:10.40 Randall It was really good. It was really good. 01:46:13.48 Dave Hell yeah, thank you. Ah, go ahead and go to patreon.com/realDaveJackson if that sounds good to you so Ozzy Randall thank you guys for coming on the show. This has been fantastic. This is exactly what I had in mind I appreciate you guys all right. 01:46:26.42 Ozzy No thank you Dave for putting it together. 01:46:27.80 Randall Appreciate you. 01:46:31.76 Dave So ah, yeah, stay tuned next week I think let me think about what's what's going on. Oh first week of December is coming up so we've got some cool games on the horizon. We've got sea of stars coming up. We've got final fantasy 10 and blasphemous 2 those are the games in December. So. Thank you all for listening I appreciate you as always tune in next week for the next game to come out of the backlog. 01:46:54.47 Ozzy Thank you.