00:00.00 Dave Hello everybody. My name is Dave Jackson and you're listening to tales from the backlog. This is a video games review podcast where each week I'm joined by a guest to bring a game out of the backlog, play it and discuss. My guest today is a friend of the show, a twitch streamer youtuber and keeper of the golden idol NinaStruggles. Nina, welcome. 00:23.23 Nina Um, hi I'm so excited to join you today. 00:26.51 Dave Yeah, this is going to be great. Um, I'm a fan of your Twitch channel. Ah you you have some really fun streams over there and I notice you have a penchant for detective games. So this is a perfect game for us today. 00:36.48 Nina Oh yeah, this is absolutely perfect. I Love Puzzles I Love detective games I Love something where you have that aha moment. So you know this is right up my alley. 00:43.12 Dave Yeah so today we're going to be talking about the case of the golden idol which is a point and click detective puzzle game developed by color gray games and published by play stack for pc and mac in 2022 I believe it's on switch now. Also I think I heard about people playing this on switch. So yeah, ah, go check that out if you're Switch only. I think you can play this if this is your first time listening to the show. Thank you for stopping by by the way. But if this is your first time listening to the show the way spoilers work in this podcast. Is we are not going to spoil anything about the puzzles or about the stories I'm going to spoil the first puzzle. It's like 5 minutes long trust me and then after that no spoilers whatsoever about puzzles and story until the spoiler section in the back half of the podcast and if you want to know when that. Is you can check down in the show notes there is a timestamp for when the spoilers begin and if you don't know what the case of the golden idol is we've prepared some elevator pitches for today's podcast I say the case of the golden idol is true deduction puzzles in expressive freeze frames. And what's the deal with that idol anyway, Nina. What's your elevator pitch? 02:02.24 Nina Mine is for the average puzzle player and it's just a fun game for anyone who likes to overthink their puzzles. So that's me. 02:21.82 Nina Um, they give you a moment in time that you have to analyze and I think it's great. 02:26.40 Dave Yeah, and we definitely could, I think in the spoiler section. We'll have a couple of puzzles where we sit there staring at it like what am I missing here and then when it all clicks into place and you get that awesome moment this game's full of those 2 I played on pc. 02:40.38 Nina Yeah. 02:45.21 Dave It took me 8 hours to play the main game and then I played both dlcs each one took me about 2 hours so 12 hours total does that sound right to you? Awesome good. It means that both of us took about the same amount of time doing these puzzles. 02:52.57 Nina That sounds very correct. 03:03.30 Dave So we're on about the same ah same playing field here. Um, we always start out the show talking about our histories with the game. We talk a little bit about the genre as well. Um, so we'll kick it to you first Nina I. 03:16.64 Nina Um, yeah. 03:19.40 Dave Asked you to come on and talk about this game because you'd do a lot of puzzle game streams. What was it about the case of the Golden Idol that appealed to you? 03:27.33 Nina It's just the puzzles. That's it, like I came into the golden idol because I liked the puzzles and I played them as they came out and the first game. Fantastic. Just a fantastic introduction to the story. 03:44.49 Nina And the Dlcs add to that story so immediately day one release I'm sitting there playing it because I have to. 03:51.34 Dave Nice. So like before the game came out. Did you see this as something that's coming up on the horizon that you're waiting for. 03:59.58 Nina Yes, this was something I was waiting for for a while because I saw it and was like this is exactly like um, return of the Obra Dinn and I was like oh well that seems like something I would like so that. 04:07.85 Dave Yeah, yeah. 04:14.89 Nina That is definitely something I was looking out for and then the dlcs came in and I was like day one buy that install it play it? yeah. 04:24.32 Dave Yeah, absolutely I was going to ask you if you had played return of the obra dinn now looking back on it that seems like a silly question. Um, that was what made me want to play case of the golden idol too. But I didn't know about this before it came out. It was only after it came out and it started to get some buzz. And people started to make those comparisons where it was like hey if you liked the way return of the Obra Dinn handles its puzzles or its 1 giant puzzle then here's another game that was based on that inspired by that even the developers quote Oprah din as like 1 of their main inspirations. So. 04:46.45 Nina Yes. 05:01.52 Dave That's one of my favorite games of all time over din. So when all of that comparison starts to come out I was like oh okay, well this is going on the wish list and then like as a capital G gamer. It sat on the wishlist for a long time. I didn't buy it. Actually , it was a gift to me. 05:15.16 Nina Yes. 05:21.25 Dave We do a secret santa in our Discord server and one of the community members soccer bought this game for me. So thank you soccer and I was really glad to get this in the secret santa and to get into some opening thoughts here I think first of all I think this game is really really, really good like. Puzzles are really really well-made. There's a little bit of me that thinks like those comparisons to obra dinn like help people get in the door and help people get interested. But ultimately it doesn't actually help this game in comparison like I think there's a couple of things about this game that are just a little bit. Inelegant compared to obra dinn but that's like saying like you know this pizza I ate was really fucking good. It's not as good as the best pizza I ever had. It's kind of like saying that this game's still really good. The puzzles are great. They're really well-designed. And as a little bonus that I did not expect and I can't wait to talk about this in the spoiler section. I think the story's really cool in this game and I was very surprised by that. 06:26.82 Nina Yeah, um, going back to obra dinn like I loved Obra Dinn's story but the thing with Obra Dinn and what I didn't like was that it made me so nauseous to play. 06:38.00 Dave Oh. 06:41.80 Nina The motion sickness really got to me in Obra DInn because I think it's beautiful to look at but to move that quickly between scenes and walking around was hard on my eyes. But that's why I liked Golden Idol so much because it's giving you the same. 06:53.20 Dave Ah. 06:59.00 Nina Kind of game mechanic. It's like trying to figure out the mystery at the same time as this is what the only information you're given and I think it's very well done. But um I'll say that that is the difference between the 2 games and was actually what Gave it the upper hand for me. 07:20.70 Dave Yeah, for sure motion sickness will tank Even the best of games for sure. Um, yeah, so we are going to listen to a little bit of music from the case of the Golden Idol and then when we come back, we will set up the story. 07:21.84 Nina Yes. 07:35.28 Dave Ah, talk about it a little bit and then you know talk about puzzles and stuff like that. So in the case of the golden idol you start with chapter one which is called complications in the family and then scenario one. Ah, there are 4 chapters with 3 scenarios each and then there's a dlc after that. Ah, the first one kind of tutorializes the mechanics for you gives you a little bit of light in um, deduction where they give you 2 people. There's a man named Albert Cloudsley and a doctor named Oberon Geller and they tutorialize the deduction where you have to figure out like okay who's the doctor who's Cloudsley you look in their belongings you see Geller's got a scalpel. He's the doctor, etc, etc. So you figure out their identities. Ah they are on an expedition to Monkey Paw island where surely nothing bad will ever happen. Never no um and they go there and they find this golden idol the one from the title and in the first scene you see like we said in the elevator pitch. 08:29.33 Nina Um, never that nothing bad would happen. No. 08:47.75 Dave Each scene is set up as like this freeze frame kind of there's a little bit of motion. That's just kind of rewind fat ah rewind play rewind play but very short like that and someone has pushed somebody off of a cliff and you have to figure out the detective mechanics in order to figure out. Who is pushing who off of the cliff and it's a nice little tutorial. It's about 5 minutes long and then you're off into future scenarios and something cool about this game I like. I didn't know anything about the story setup or anything like that before I started. This story takes place over the course of many years following the Cloudsley family the path of the golden idol. You'll learn what the idol is, how it works, what its powers are and see what influence the Cloudsley family and the idol have on society. Through decades and generations I think this is really cool to follow these characters. You actually do get to know some of these characters and their personalities a little bit as they go and then as. It continues through the years as the story develops and that was the thing that kind of stood out to me was I thought that the story that they had to tell here was really creative and fun. 10:12.23 Nina Yeah, no this I love the fact that it takes place over decades like this is a whole full built out story because I didn't know that going into it I was like oh this is a murder mystery. We're going to figure out what happens and then move on but that first scene. 10:17.70 Dave Yeah. 10:32.22 Nina With someone getting thrown off a clip and you have to figure out what's happening and that kicks off the entire story for the rest of the game is fantastic. Um, and the thing that I liked the most about it is that it's 1 moment in time. It's. 10:32.45 Dave Yeah. 10:45.83 Dave Yeah, yeah. 10:49.51 Nina It's something that you have to pay attention to so many different things and that's what is kicking off the gameplay of figuring stuff out. 10:56.98 Dave Yeah, it's one of those stories where every chapter gives you one snapshot. It's always somebody who has died. Part of the mystery is figuring out how they died and maybe who killed them and how etc. Sort of like obra den but that's not all that you have to figure out and so that's a very small part of it. But in those details also are this continuing story and if you're paying attention to details If you're taking podcast notes like me the story will. Like revealing itself to you as you go eventually. The game will make you state What happened in the story but you can figure it out before then if you're paying attention to the clues and connecting like oh that guy was in this scene two chapters ago and now he's here doing this so that becomes part of his tale. And I just didn't know any of this going on and it becomes really interesting when you start learning about the Golden Idol and what it can do and how people are using it. It's cool like Science fiction. 12:04.81 Nina Yeah. 12:13.57 Dave The dlc stories I forgot to write I think the first one's called the spider of Lanka and then the other ones the Lemurian vampire I believe um. 12:24.66 Dave The ah two dlc stories tell the backstory of the idol and basically walk you up to the moment that happens when someone's getting shoved off of a cliff in that first chapter. So if you play through the game and you enjoy it well , mostly you enjoy the puzzles. But if you enjoy the story too. 12:44.14 Dave Dlc deals with backstory There's also some interesting like themes that the story goes into. It's a short game each chapter doesn't have a ton of like plot to it. Ah, but there are themes of like because this takes place in a I don't even know if they actually say that this is like Great Britain back in the day. It's definitely inspired by it. You know? Yeah, so there's like ah there's some colonialist themes to it. There are some um. 13:08.56 Nina Um, oh yes, definitely. 13:18.78 Dave You know the ruling class like holding this great power over the working class and stuff like that. So there is that too which adds flavor to everything that's going on. 13:27.72 Nina Um, yeah I will say that the dlcs are not necessarily there for story development. Besides just like the backstory. They are very fun puzzles though. 13:39.44 Dave Yeah, yeah, yeah. 13:43.19 Nina Um, I think the main story is fantastic. The main game is fantastic and the dlc really does add to it. But um, yeah, the dlcs are really there just for the extra puzzles and they're super fun. 13:54.43 Dave Yeah, from a story perspective I Definitely like the main game better but the dlcs were definitely like Okay so you beat the last puzzle in the main game you want something more complicated So that's that's what they give you for sure. 13:58.60 Nina Yeah. 14:09.40 Nina I think that the second dlc took me so long. There was like a 1 puzzle I was stuck on forever. Um, and we'll get into that later. But yeah. 14:16.11 Dave Um, yeah, yeah course but you know this is a very brief introduction to the story in the case of the Golden Idol but I did want to give it a little bit of time because it is cool and likable. We're intentionally holding back a lot of cool stuff that like when we get to the spoiler section I will actually have things I want to talk about about the story in this puzzle game and again that was a big welcome surprise for me. 14:45.27 Nina Yeah, like this. The story is so Good. There's so much happening in this game and as a person who plays puzzle games and detective games like the story is so important to me. Um. Even though I'm enjoying just doing the puzzles I need like why am I doing this like why is the puzzle here. So This is definitely one of those. 15:05.39 Dave Yeah, yeah, and I will say another thing about the story too that I think is interesting like this is a game that gives you however, many 12 or 16 ah sorry 11 in the main game and then. 6 more in the dlc's like snapshots of somebody getting killed. You need to figure out how they died, who killed them etc. But that's not often the most interesting thing once you put that greater narrative together. Those deaths are kind of just like stops along the way; they're not the point. If that makes sense. 15:48.13 Dave So we will put a pin in the story and um, let's say let's listen to a bit more music because I want to talk about music when we come back and best to just introduce that with some of it because the music is quite good. So the case of the golden idol musically. Um, I think the soundtrack is fantastic. It's just like a really like it has this air of mystery about it. But it's also super ear wormy like the main menu music will just get stuck in your head and I'll just be wandering around my house the the for. Weeks when I was playing this um and then it has a lot of variations in different scenes and stuff too. But those are the 2 words I would use to describe it: mysterious and earwormy. 16:35.35 Nina Yes, it actually kind of reminded me of Secret of Monkey Island where the song would just get stuck in your head and you're going around the house like it's just in there playing over and over on the loop. But the music is so. 16:53.78 Nina Good because it's not too excessive where you can't solve a puzzle while you're listening to it which I think is very important in a puzzle game but at the same time It's drawing your attention. It's setting the mood. It's keeping your interest in the game and I think the music is fantastic. 17:11.21 Dave Yeah, video game soundtracks often have to like have their own personality introduce their own melody and stuff. But ultimately they have to stay out of the way so you can pay attention like whether it's an Rpg with a lot of reading. 17:31.20 Dave Or a game like this where you are just mulling over all of these clues and trying to figure out what's going on in this puzzle like imagine if this game had vocals in the music. It would be super distracting and ah this game. I Think the soundtrack does a great job of being really cool and catchy but ultimately staying out of the way so that I can focus. 17:50.83 Nina Yes, exactly like there's a lot of games where I'm like I'm a mute the music is focused on the puzzle and this is not one of them. It's very relaxing and helps you out solving puzzles. 18:01.91 Dave Um, yeah, yeah for sure. Um, what you think about the art style because this is kind of polarizing out there. It's a very distinct style. We'll say. 18:12.54 Nina Um, I will say I Love this art style so much and the visuals I will say the visuals of this game are so so important because there can be something on the screen at any point in time. 18:29.15 Nina What you don't know is important, like you have to pay attention and things look so blended into the background. Things look so very natural in the scene and I think that's what makes the game harder and more interesting to figure out the puzzle. 18:43.66 Dave Oh. 18:47.00 Nina Because there have been things that I completely missed in the background because of the art style. The art style blends together very well. It's like it's like you know in a Scooby Do episode you can see the locker. They're going to open because it's animated differently. You know? ah this is like everything blends together. 18:59.81 Dave Oh yeah. 19:06.33 Dave Um, yeah. 19:06.49 Nina It looks very clean and ah yeah I Just think that they did a great job with it. 19:12.82 Dave Who I got to ask you then? So this game gives you an option as it has definite roots in point and click adventures like the secret of Monkey Island. Ah. It has an option where you can have a big shining thing on everything that you can click On. So Did you play with that off? Okay. 19:27.47 Nina I played with it on. I really did like having it on for various reasons and like it's mostly because I would go through everything that would have a shiny dot and then go back through and then read everything very carefully. 19:40.88 Dave Yeah. 19:46.67 Nina Making sure I got all the clues. Yeah. 19:49.16 Dave Gotcha there were sometimes I played with that on too. There were times when I missed even those shiny things. Yeah, they can be depending on what's going on in the art style around it. So yeah. 19:55.98 Nina Um, oh yeah, they're hard to find. 20:04.80 Dave It is definitely visually consistent. So I didn't find it like the Scooby Doo example that doesn't happen. Everything feels natural where it is even if it is something that's big and loud and you know that it's important even if you were playing with those dots. 20:14.12 Nina Um, yeah. 20:23.82 Dave Off like the highlighting off which I do not recommend I recommend having it on. But even if you were playing. Yeah yeah I think that the developers would say that too. But if you're into Pixel hunting I suppose. Yeah, this game has that for you. 20:27.29 Nina I Will second that that was an awful way to play it. 20:42.68 Dave You'll learn to recognize some stuff that's important even if you were playing with that off I suppose anyway. Ah the art is super crude , like it's ugly people are ugly in this game like there's. I don't think there's anyone who's drawn in an attractive way. 21:00.33 Nina Yes. 21:02.22 Dave Ah, kind of like caricatures almost but like pixel art caricatures in a way. 21:06.92 Nina Yeah, and I kind of like that. It's like that 90 s two thousand s point and click adventure kind of vibe and that's what I got and then also kind of gave that like Oprah din vibe also like the pixelated look um so a little bit. 21:19.37 Dave Yeah. 21:23.14 Nina And but it makes everything and I liked it because it was not as serious as you think it would be for the story that we're going to talk about um I don't know, just a very fun crude drawing look. 21:40.98 Dave Yeah, there's like I think it's like the second case, there's a guy that's on fire and like the way he's drawn in that scene. It's goofy like it looks funny like you said it's not drawn in a super serious way. Um. 21:54.94 Nina Um, yeah. 21:58.28 Dave But it is unique. I don't think I've played a game that looks like this with characters that look like these characters. The animals are really fucked up in this game they look. They look really weird. It's cool. So it's something that I've heard where people like to take a look at this and they're like. 22:11.67 Nina Um, yeah. 22:16.51 Dave Ah, that looks gross. I don't like that but I was in because I thought it looked weird and then when you start playing it. It's super consistent throughout the whole game like everything is drawn in that hard style. Even the dogs that you come across? so.. It's not like it's hard to read because everything is so stylized or anything. 22:35.17 Nina Yeah, it's brought up the man on fire. It made me laugh out loud. The second I saw it it was so great I'm like this is actually serious. This man might be dying. 22:39.88 Dave Yeah, yeah. 22:50.44 Dave Yeah, but he's got like ah he's got like this goofy expression on his face and like fires coming out of his eyes and his mouth and everything like it's It's just really, it's drawn in a funny way. The other people in that scene are like. 22:57.63 Nina Um, if it is. 23:03.91 Dave They have their mouths open screaming but they look funny like there's. I don't think there's any way for anyone to be portrayed in a serious way in this art style Even if they're dead serious. Yeah. 23:12.59 Nina Um, yeah and I love this art style. I think it's just fun. It's kind of taking you away from the seriousness of the action that's happening and um I don't know it's just it's I think it's very fun. 23:24.17 Dave Um, yeah, yeah in between chapters a lot of times you'll get these like interstitial cutscenes that are they take this art style and like blow it up into like the big screen and. 23:40.40 Dave It's a little bit cleaner. We'll say but they're given in like a comic book style. There might be like 2 or 3 like panels on the screen. There might be a short bit of dialogue. The whole thing might last like 15 seconds Topps 23:57.42 Dave Ah,, but there are those little cut scenes in between the chapters to give you a little bit of Story. A lot of times that story won't make any sense until you do stuff later and then if you go back and rewatch it. You'll be like oh that's what they're talking about but in the moment it was like. Well, that means nothing to me So I'm just going to go to the next chapter. 24:17.87 Nina Um, yes I loved those cut scenes though like they are very well done and like like you said the comic bookie style of it. But I remember playing it for the first time being like I don't know what that is but okay. 24:33.48 Dave It's a lot like I don't know what that is. I don't know what they're talking about. I don't know who these people are yet like I learned. I learned their name in the last chapter and I plugged it into the puzzle and then I forgot but there are people who. 24:39.82 Nina Um, me. 24:48.24 Dave Continuing through all the different chapters I think the really stylized art style helps to remember who they are because you'd be like oh that's that guy with that really weird haircut or that's the guy with the really weird face like I'll never forget what that guy looks like. 25:04.51 Nina That's exactly how I would identify people because people come up multiple times throughout the story because it's like decades long and so you'll have to put in the same names multiple times I'm like oh I remember you're the one with the weird haircut. You're the one with like the weird glasses. Okay, cool. 25:16.83 Dave Um, yeah, yeah, exactly. So all in all I'm glad that you like the art style too. It is like I said a little bit polarizing out there. Although I think most people who play the game like it. 25:34.24 Dave Even if you don't love it at the beginning you grow to understand it as you play and it's just really distinct and you get to appreciate a unique art style Anytime you see one. 25:43.84 Nina Yeah, it's very different from anything I've played and like it's reminiscent of older games but it is its own thing So that's great. 25:55.98 Dave Yeah, for sure, it's cool. Ah and speaking of cool we're going to listen to a little bit more music and then when we come back. Let's talk about those puzzles. So the case of the golden idol is point and click deduction puzzles. Ah, you will get a freeze frame like we said there will be lots of stuff around. You can click on and again hopefully you have that mode on that highlights all the Clickables and when you click on stuff in this game. It will take words or names. Or verbs nouns etc and put them in this kind of word cloud down at the bottom of the screen so you start out on this. They call it the exploring tab where it shows you the scene. All the people, all the things you can click on. And so you click around you collect all the words and then if you click over to the thinking tab that will show you a bunch between like 3 maybe in the early levels to like 8 in the Dlc's or like these separate little things you have to fill out. It might be a paragraph or like 2 paragraphs explaining just a summary of the scene. What happened, who died, how did they die, who killed them etc. You might have a different puzzle where you have to match names to faces. You might have a different 1. 27:23.79 Dave You have to solve some other sort of puzzle. But it's a deduction. It's they're never going to just straight up tell you really any of this.. It's all on you to put like the pieces together in your head based on you know what clothing somebody's wearing what they have in their bag. What their relation is to someone who you do know because they were in an earlier scene or something like that you can look through people's possessions. That's often well required for you to get those words into your word cloud but the stuff that people are carrying is really important. Ah, you have to really like to take a first pass. I Think when you start like so did you play this the same way where you open up a case and you just click on everything, gather all the words and then go take a closer look afterward. Okay. 28:10.67 Nina Oh yeah, and I mentioned this earlier like the shiny dots I would go and click on all of them I would look at everything and then open up the thinking tab. What am I looking for and I think that they did this really well because. 28:24.35 Dave Right. 28:29.20 Nina Sometimes you don't know what you're looking for, what the mystery is so you go back and you sit there and look at every single thing you can and piece things together on your own time. Just whatever comes to mind first and I Love. The way they did this. The gameplay is so well done because it's so individual to each person who plays and I mean it's an outstanding job. 28:58.17 Dave Yeah, ah 1 cool thing about this is the game tells you how many words there are to collect so you know when you're done ah which is good because like I said several times I did that first pass of just hoovering up all the words and then I was like I'm missing 2 words but I clicked on everything. 29:15.88 Dave Oh no, So then you have to go back and look for that other shiny but imagine you weren't playing with those shiny highlights you would literally just be pixel hunting because sometimes you know what's going to be important like you can click on every person to look through their belongings and stuff. But sometimes it might just be like oh there's this thing on one of the doors that they want you to click on and read because there's a note there and you would just be pixel hunting for what's important if you weren't using those highlights. So again, recommend using those for sure. Um I thought this was. 29:49.76 Nina Um, yeah I've never I've never played it without the shines like I've played this game like twice through now and I've never done it without the shinies because I think it be so so difficult because in going back to the visuals. They're. 30:00.24 Dave Yeah. 30:05.53 Nina Animated in a very specific way that you can't tell what is important and even at that point even if you have the shinies there are things in the background you have to pay attention to like what you said the clothes What people are holding what they're doing what could have happened before. 30:24.34 Nina The moment in time that you're looking at right now. Ah, there's a lot of things to look at So I Definitely recommend those little shiny dots that help you see everything. 30:34.96 Dave Yeah, ah and unlike Oprah Din There's no voice acting to help you in this game. So It's all visuals and reading you know notes. Maybe there is somebody who has a list of all the attendees of a party and then you're eventually going to have to like. Match the names to the faces and then Match. There's a part where you have to do like the there's a dinner table and you have to match where everyone is sitting at the dinner table and you have to puzzle out based on other clues like oh this person is a vegetarian so they're not going to sit at the place that has a stake on their plate stuff like that. You always have to be paying attention to little details. So when you were solving these, did you ever really just get stuck and have no idea where you were supposed to go with a puzzle because that happened to me. 31:25.88 Nina Oh yeah, oh yeah, these puzzles are hard if anyone plays this game like there are some things that pop up where you have to really infer what you're looking at and just make an assumption of okay well this person did that. 31:30.88 Dave Yeah, they are. 31:44.62 Nina Therefore this person would react this way and that's what happened and so yeah I got stuck multiple times in this game. 31:54.29 Dave Yeah, often I would say so let's pretend that my math and memory are correct. Let's say there's 17 puzzles total I would say maybe 10 of them I did completely by myself and then. 32:01.66 Nina Yeah. Are. 32:11.10 Dave On like five more I had to use the hint system to get a hint and then like 2 of them I was just totally fucking stuck and had to go look up. Ah luckily I found one of those cool like no spoiler here's a better hint than ah, the hints. The game gives you type guides but I had to go check those. Um, but I will say all that being said every time I did look up something or like the hint would push me in the right direction or even the thing that I googled would point me in the right direction I think there was even one where I was like nothing's fucking helping just tell me the answers. So I can move on. Every time that happened I looked back at the scene and I was like oh yeah, that was there I just missed it I didn't connect the dots but it was there so to give them credit. 32:54.26 Nina Um, yes, yeah, like there. There were so many times where I would look back after I finished something because sometimes you just like brute force. The. Puzzles and then I would go back. I'm like oh that's what I missed, cool I see. 33:15.11 Dave Yeah, yeah, I Definitely think like when I said earlier that there was some little inelegancies about this puzzle system that's kind of what I mean so like when you click over to the thinking tab and you're looking At. Like let's say you have to summarize the event. It doesn't make you write complete sentences. It makes you fill in nouns and verbs and maybe like an adjective or something like that. I don't know but they're all color coded so the names are brown and the nouns are yellow. 33:45.58 Nina Um. 33:54.00 Dave Etc. So if I'm looking at a blank on there that is yellow, especially for or like there's another color for verbs I think it's blue. So if I'm looking at a blue verb thing I can just use grammar rules to rule out half of the verbs and so like that's what I'm talking about where it's like a little bit of. I solved the puzzle because I know the difference between present and past tense because there are no grammar mistakes in the puzzles themselves rather than like deducing the answer and like whether that's my fault for taking the easy way out or not It's just like a little quirk of the way they've designed the puzzles where. I did this like quite a bit to to be honest and that's one of the little things where I was like these puzzles don't hit a hundred percent of the way they should because they allow me to just be like oh well this is a past 10 sentence I'm going to ignore the verbs that don't fit. Yeah. 34:49.21 Nina That's what I did too, like I would go and collect all the words and look at what I'm looking for in the thinking section and I'm like oh well this word obviously goes in that blank. We'll put that there because of grammar rules. 35:05.54 Nina So I have at least like 5 words already done and then I'll go back and know what I'm looking for at that point. 35:12.00 Dave Yeah, ah to kind of counteract that I suppose you will not use every word that you pick up which is good. You'll pick up a lot of stuff that's just not important. Um, and there are a lot of red herrings in like. Things that you pick up that seem really important and then they're not at all, you don't even use them. There are people that give unreliable statements about what happened. People lie in this game So That's good and you also kind of have to pay attention to things outside of those. Words that you pick up too like other environmental details are super important as Well. So I don't want to give off the impression that I open up the thinking tab and then just use my beautiful English grammar to solve the entire puzzle like you can't do that. 36:04.11 Dave But you can just fill in a couple things and get some cheap answers that way. 36:06.29 Nina Yeah, like you have to actually know what's going on in the scene. So yes, they do kind of give you some freebies with the grammar stuff but you have to know who everyone's name is, you have to know what's going on in the story and I. Really do appreciate that like you have to be paying attention. 36:25.96 Dave Yeah, for sure and again like this has been a theme in a lot of games on the show in the past but like I'm not always the most observant person especially when doing puzzles or environmental details will just pass me by. 36:44.80 Dave I Think we talked about this on the secret of Monkey Island episode where a lot of stuff just either flew over my head because I didn't think about it the right way or I just fucking missed it. It's like there's a key there and I just didn't click on it because I didn't see it and there were a lot of things that I missed but they were there. So like that's on me I missed it. It's not in the game for that in particular. 37:52.24 Dave So yeah, um, 1 other thing to mention about filling in that thinking tab is this game has a feedback system for what you put in to keep you from just brute forcing entire paragraphs of you know clues that you're plugging in the way this game does it is. It will only let you know when you've filled in every blank in one of the little subsections of the thinking tab and when you have 2 or fewer mistakes. It will tell you that if you have 3 mistakes it will just say this is incorrect. Then if you have 2 or 1 mistake. It will say 2 or fewer mistakes and then if you get them all right. It kind of clears it out. You get this nice little sound effect. It's a cool little Pat on the back for figuring it out. Um, did you. Brute force once you got to that to or fewer fewer mistakes. Ah label yup me too. 39:07.59 Nina Um, hell yes I did oh my gosh the second it says you're so close got 2 mistakes am like great. Let's put in every word. Let's see. 39:22.33 Dave Yeah, every name that I'm not sure of well I'm just going to try this person. Oh it's wrong. It goes back to saying it's incorrect. So actually that thing I took out was correct. So I know that's good and so. 39:32.39 Nina Um, yes. 39:36.62 Dave It's another one of these little like inelegancies. It does not by any means break the game or make it bad or anything like that. But I can resort to cheap tactics in this game more often than I feel like I should be able to and again maybe someone with better willpower than me would not do that. But I did because the game let me? yeah. 39:57.17 Nina It was. It was great. I loved having that as an option just to just know where you are. I'm like am I. Even if I'm close to great then I will try to figure it out and. 40:02.96 Dave Yeah, to know you're close at least? Yeah, yeah, there were times when it would fill in and I would be like oh okay, I'm going to start like mixing names up and then it would nothing would change I'm be like oh I'm very wrong. I Need to delete everything and start over which is I guess good feedback as well. 40:22.96 Nina Yes, yeah, and I think that helps with the puzzle because it's like I would fill out the whole script and then to be like no wrong and I'm like okay, let's take everything out rethink this. 40:34.50 Dave Um, yeah. 40:41.26 Nina Is there something else that maybe happened and then they'll be like oh you have 2 or less incorrect and I'm like great all right. We're close to what could be wrong and then it would help out and I think that's much better than their hint system. So. 40:47.48 Dave Yeah. 40:57.80 Dave Oh yeah, ah for sure like and and keep in mind that this is not fair to the case of the golden idol but like we don't play video games or consume media in a vacuum. So like I'm playing this. And I'm thinking about return of the obra dinn when I'm playing this and obra dinn had this system where it would only give you any feedback at all if you got 3 things correct on your big list of things to figure out so you could not brute force that game until like the last 5 people. And then you could be like okay I'm going to start you know plugging names in ah but this game I like every let's let's say the thinking tab has 4 little mini puzzles I need to figure out each one of them can be brute forced in this way if you get close. The puzzle is getting close and then you can. You can either do it the right way if you're a better person than me but I didn't. I was like okay I'm close I'm going to start this name wrong taking this name out. Oh it went up to say 2 or fewer mistakes I'm okay, leaving that there you know. 42:03.72 Nina Um, yeah I Really appreciated it because like you said Obra Dinn I thought was much harder because there were way too many. 42:16.30 Dave Yeah. 42:16.47 Nina Options and things that you wouldn't know if you're a right or wrong like you don't know where you're off and I I did like the mechanic in this game of like having your clothes you just need to fix like this this one thing we're not going to tell you which 1 thing it is but. 42:21.37 Dave Right. 42:36.17 Nina Your clothes and I like that. 42:37.59 Dave Yeah, as like ah as like the puzzle is kind of like a teacher helping you with your homework. It's kind of like they're not going to give you the answer. They'll tell you you're close, you go and try and find your mistake. 42:46.63 Nina Yeah, yeah. 42:49.85 Dave Again, This isn't bad. It's just like it. Let me do my degenerate gamer shit more often than I wanted it to let me do that. But you are right I do appreciate the feedback to let me know that I'm close. 42:58.31 Nina Um, yeah, yeah, ah it's It's very this game is actually really reliant on how you think and if you're not. 43:10.70 Dave Yeah, yeah. 43:13.26 Nina Thinking in the right way the game wants you to will not get the answer. So I appreciate the feedback and like hey your clothes like there's just 1 thing off. 43:16.22 Dave Yeah, yeah. 43:22.24 Dave Yeah, yeah, straight up this is one of those games where if you're not thinking the way the game wants you to you will not solve the puzzle for sure. So and that did happen to me a couple times where there was a. 43:32.41 Nina Yeah. 43:38.40 Dave A leap of logic or a connecting of dots that I was just not going to get at least? Maybe if I put the game down and then came back tomorrow I would approach it with a fresh mindset and figure it out. But I didn't do that. That's not how I played this. I played this game 1 chapter a day for about two weeks and I really liked playing it that way. Ah, but it didn't allow me to get stuck on a puzzle, put it down and try again. Tomorrow. 44:05.88 Nina I Like that though, what one a day I sat there and like binged it because I was so stubborn I may have to figure it out what happens but no, no, that's definitely the way to play. It is like separating it out because each chapter can also be its own story. 44:15.73 Dave Yeah, yeah. 44:22.73 Dave Yeah, yeah. 44:25.23 Nina Um, they all connect but you can definitely play each chapter one day at a time. 44:27.84 Dave Yeah, for sure you mentioned the hint system. So let's talk about it because you will get stuck unless you are like just super brain Mcgee you're going to get stuck and the game does have an in game hint system to help you out. 44:34.84 Nina Um, me. 44:46.82 Dave I think the hint system in this game sucks. I think it's patronizing and the hints aren't very good anyway, a lot of the time but let's talk about it. So when you click the hint button. The first thing it asks you is are you sure and I'm like yes I click the button. I had to go out of my way to click this button for a hint I am sure I want to hint and then it tells you ah, we really recommend that you don't get a hint have you considered doing this and I was like yes I have considered that I want to hint that's why I click the button um, and then before you quote earn your hint. You have to do a matching game that serves no real purpose except so it'll put like pictures up. It'll have a picture of a saw and then a couple of people and then like a vase and a knife and then on the right. It will have a list of words it will say saw knife. People's names and a vase and you have to drag the name over to the picture and do that little matching game. It is um, busy work. I think the only good part about the hint system is it helped me learn some names. But. I know what a saw looks like and I'm already frustrated by being stuck in a puzzle. I don't want to move. I don't want to do like second grade matching games to get a hint you know. 46:11.13 Nina Yeah I did not like this hint system. It was yeah it's patronizing like you said it was just like are you sure? Did you think about this, did you consider, did you think maybe something else could happen. 46:23.40 Dave Yeah, did you think about it? Yeah. 46:30.35 Nina Maybe? ah and I didn't like that um the matching game wasn't awful but it was so tedious I'm like I already know this has already been put in my puzzle I'm looking for 1 answer and I need help. 46:36.96 Dave Yeah. 46:46.32 Nina So I will say the only good thing about the hint system was that it really deterred me from giving up I was like I'm not going to use that hint system I'm like I'm going to sit here and figure out what I need to do because I'm not going to sit here and play the hint system game. 46:52.70 Dave Yeah. 47:02.97 Nina Um, so that's the only good thing it had but I don't. I don't like the way that they did it because it just makes you feel really bad for being stuck and I wish that they knew how hard some of these puzzles were. 47:12.68 Dave Yeah, yeah, I'm sure they're aware. It's hard, but it's like it is that thing. It's like well have you considered thinking about the puzzle. It's like well yeah, I'm playing a puzzle game I've been trying I promise I'm trying um. And then the fact that what you do to get a hint is literally like identifying a Violin and it's like how does that help me with this puzzle and then after you solve the matching game. Um, which you know takes a minute or so. Ah, to figure out who these people are after you solve the matching game. It will give you a hint based on the mini puzzles from the thinking tab. So if there is a thing you have to fill out that you have to label all of these like ranks in the army and what they're. Uniforms look like and stuff like that you can get a specific hint about that mini puzzle which is nice. It's nice to be able to say I want a hint for this specific thing but then those hints are often not super helpful like. You'll click a hint for ah a thing where you have to label members of an organization and we'll be like well have you considered that someone you know might be lying about their rank. It's like yeah I did like I want something more specific you know I clicked I did your fucking matching puzzle. 48:39.32 Nina Yes. 48:44.60 Dave I Want a specific hint. 48:44.37 Nina Nothing hurts more than going through multiple steps to get to a hint and the hint is something you already thought about like yes I did think about that I did consider that what's the answer. 48:52.30 Dave Yeah, yeah for sure. Yeah, so formal recommendation from me to if you are stuck on a puzzle in the case of the Golden Idol don't fuck with the hint system in the game. Go find one of those awesome like no spoiler hint guides that people have written. 49:16.78 Dave Where they will actually like to go into more detail than what they'll just tell you what the game says you don't have to do the matching game to get the hint. Ah, but there are some that will give you legitimate good hints without actually spoiling anything for you which is great. So It's a. I Feel bad ending the gameplay section talking about the hint system which is like in my opinion. Objectively, the worst part about the entire game. It's not a fun way to yeah, but. 49:43.26 Nina Um, yeah, because it's a great game but I just have that hint system I don't love. 49:53.65 Dave Um, so as somebody who enjoys puzzles and you enjoy some deduction. Um did this game satisfy you in that way, give you that moment of like you know aha I get this thing that was puzzling me and then the Dompanos fall into place. 50:08.95 Nina Oh absolutely and this is also I guess the good thing about the hint system like it really deterred me from just taking hints. I would sit there for a good while and like I'd need to figure it out and the aha moment. 50:27.51 Nina Is so good. But when everything clicks into place. It's just perfect and I think that the story throughout the whole game makes complete sense if you're thinking about it in a specific way. I would like to stop the game and walk away and come back. And fresh eyes look at something and it would be Fantastic. So it's great for people who like puzzles. 51:00.63 Dave I don't know why I'm pretending like I can't talk I can edit this all out of the podcast. Um, we'll just do a music break. We'll go into our final thoughts here. So it sound like we were trending toward our final thoughts. Our summaries and recommendations. So Nina answer the question for me who would you recommend play the case of the golden idol and then if you have any wrap up thoughts about the game give us those as well. 51:26.40 Nina I Need every single puzzle and detective game fan to play this game. I think that it is challenging if you are an avid player of those games you will enjoy this because it's. 51:43.41 Nina A little bit different. It gives you something more. There are varying levels of easy to hard puzzles and I think you're really going to like that aha moment when you figure something out So that's who I recommend it to . It's for the puzzle in detective fans and I stand by that. 52:01.97 Dave Yeah, yeah for sure. Um I guess I'll add ah didn't bring this up in the earlier gameplay section but like those mini puzzles on the thinking screen all vary in difficulty also like one of them is going to be really easy to solve early on in the puzzle and then you can like. Work off of that as like fact that you know and keep going so they are designed really well in that way and I agree with you that if if someone out there is a fan of deduction if you're a fan of return of the obra dinn or if you're a fan of you know Sherlock Holmes or something like that or. I I am not a detective game master. So I don't really know of a lot of other games that force you to use these deduction skills. But if you like those kinds of games then this is an absolute like no brainer. Definitely play it I feel like I was pretty like I feel like. I do this a lot where I'd like to be here in the moment and be like man. I was really harsh about that game but I really like it and then I'll go back and listen to it and hear all the nice things I said about it too. But I am kind of feeling like I was the ratio of like critiques to praise. There Were more critiques than like I actually feel about the entire experience like I had a lot of fun playing this game's really good. It gave me all those good detective game feelings. Ah, but there were just a couple of things that I did. 53:30.85 Dave I Guess I got spoiled on from some other games that kind of stuck out to me to point out as we break it down but make no mistake the case of the Golden Idol is really good and I'm really looking forward to the sequel like I don't know what they're going to do if they're just going to keep. Escalating the difficulty of the puzzles and then you're just going to have like 80 fucking words to to put together in the puzzles in that game or if they're going to start from the beginning again or if they're going to do something different but the studio has kind of earned my like my trust where it's like oh. 54:08.17 Dave I Forget what it's called return of the Golden Idol. That's probably not it. Um, the sequel whenever the sequel comes out I'm there so easy. Easy recommendation for a lot of people to play this. 54:19.52 Nina Yeah, I'm so looking forward to anything that they do. It's a great game. 54:28.71 Dave Ah, in the case of the golden idol sequel the sequel is called the rise of the golden idol so I was close to the rise. Yeah, the rise of the golden idol is supposed to come out in 2024 so people can look forward to that on tales from the backlog. 54:36.98 Nina You've close. Yeah. 54:45.98 Dave Sometime I will definitely be playing it So ah before we get into spoilers. We'll do a little bit of housekeeping and as always I will turn it over to the guest. So Nina talks about the stuff that you do tell people where they can find you. 55:01.28 Nina Ah I'm Nina struggles on every platform doing video content for Twitch Youtube Tiktok wherever you watch your videos um, mostly gaming content. Very chaotic, cozy vibe and I would love to have you there. 55:23.17 Dave Yeah, absolutely cozy, definitely for sure. Um I I enjoy hanging out in your streams for just a cozy, fun. Good time at the time of recording if. But I don't know maybe in a couple months you'll still be playing like a dragon of infinite wealth because that is a long game but at the time of recording that's ah, that's a lot of what Nina's got going on on Twitch. Ah but rest assured there'll be some cool stuff out there like can you tell people. 55:40.85 Nina Um, it's so long. 55:53.45 Dave Other types of games that you like to play on the streams. 55:55.94 Nina Yeah, um, we do a lot of puzzle games and detective games every summer. I do so sleuthy summer where I play all 36 Nancy Drew games I did. I do that every year. So if that's something that interests you, point clicks. 56:03.87 Dave Okay, okay. 56:11.90 Nina Um, anything with a good story I'm about that. So ah, we do those on stream and I am very much sucked into like a dragon right now. 56:18.90 Dave Yeah, me too. So people can look forward to the tales from the backlog episode about that in like six months because it's going to take me a while to play that game. So while I'm talking about myself for the next minute or so people can go down in the show notes and find a link to stuff that Nina is doing. And go give a follow. It is worth your time and I recommend it so ah, for myself if you would like to support this show ratings and reviews are really helpful. So when people go on their app and they type in case of the golden idol they might find this episode and that's what we want. So that's really helpful. It also makes me feel good to see those reviews and ah, that's what we want too. We want Dave to feel good. Ah you can join the discord server and come in and chat if you have stuff to say about the case of the golden idol. The discord server is going to be a good place to do that. I know we've got several other people on the server that played this game. So I'm looking forward to some conversation about it. I also have another podcast. It's called a top 3 podcast where we do top 3 lists. We do drafts of weird topics that show is a chaotic and fun time and then if you want to support monetarily. You can do that at patreon.com/realdavejackson Everybody who supports there can vote in polls for what games I do on the show and then as the tears go up. So do the treats. So with all that being said, we are going to take a break and when we come back. It's full spoiler time for the case of the Golden Idol. 59:38.59 Dave all right? It is full spoiler time for the case of the golden idol we're going to be kind of talking about puzzle solutions sometimes mostly talking about the story in the. Unfolding scenarios in the plot and stuff. So again, if you don't want to be spoiled. You should stop listening. You should go play it. It's cool. Ah, you'll enjoy the puzzles. You'll probably enjoy the story too. It's very creative, but with that being said, let us get into case number 2 we talked about case one. That was Cloudsley pushing Oberen Geller off of the cliff and then case 2 is called the untimely passing of a rural gentleman where Sebastian Cloudsley who is a descendant I suppose or relative of Albert dies. But I think this is like an extended tutorial level because they start to in this scene introduce some red herrings to you and like you may look at the scene and be like oh he's got a bloody head someone came in the house and bashed him in his head and that's not what happened I think that the. Ah, the solution was he fell off of his horse and that's how he got injured and then he died and that's it. 01:00:51.43 Nina You know and I loved this one because I actually got a little bit stuck because the first case is very straightforward like getting pushed off a cliff you go. 01:01:06.59 Dave Yeah. 01:01:10.17 Nina Through the tutorial and then you get to case 2 and you have to make sure you're looking at everything and I think that this is like you said an extended tutorial because this is giving you other things. It's giving you? um. 01:01:14.61 Dave This is. 01:01:20.24 Dave Yeah. 01:01:24.54 Nina So many different things you can read and look at and then have to connect the dots so you have to look at the background and you have to look at a map and make your own deductions. Um, because. 01:01:34.51 Dave This is. 01:01:40.12 Nina 1 glance at the moment in time. It looks very straightforward and it's not no. 01:01:43.31 Dave Yeah, yeah, exactly and Sebastian Cloudsley has the golden idol. It's like sitting on a little table in his room there and is it just kind of there like in for several of these cases. 01:01:50.38 Nina Me. 01:01:59.61 Dave The idols just kind of changed hands. You don't really learn what the deal with it is for a while when you do. It's cool. So stick around um case three is called the dramatic departure of an outsider. Ah you find out that Sebastian Cloudsley died obviously in his will he gave the idol. To Willard Wright who is not a member of his family but is a member of this secret society. Well we learn more about the secret society in later cases. But in case number 2 as Sebastian is lying dead in his bed if you look up in the corner. There's a weird mask. Up there and I kind of remember noting that when I was playing it but you can't click on it. It's not important, but it's a weird fucking mask and it doesn't fit with like stuff that you'd expect like these nobles to have in their houses right. 01:02:53.40 Nina Um, that's what goes back to what I was saying earlier, like you have to look at everything on your screen Even if it's not clickable even if you can't interact with every single thing and the visuals are so good because you have to notice things which then connect. 01:02:57.27 Dave Yeah. 01:03:07.77 Dave Yeah, and even again those things that are not clickable just because you can't click on it doesn't mean it's not important for the greater story. So the next level again. The dramatic departure of an outsider. 01:03:16.34 Nina Yes. 01:03:26.55 Dave Is that how who's trying to figure out the title. The dramatic departure might be Edmund Cloudsley or yeah edmund cloudsley no no no Willard Wright leaving with no it's Cloudsley he's leaving with the idol. No never mind. It's not Cloudsley's the one with the. 01:03:38.97 Nina Yes. 01:03:44.96 Nina Yes, yes, he is. 01:03:45.57 Dave Glasses up on the stairs I think so Willard Wright is the 1 leaving with the idol and he sets a thief on fire so he might be the dramatic departing one or it might be the guy who got set on fire with the idol. 01:03:57.23 Nina I Thought he was the departure guy because he's literally just on fire which we talked about earlier and like I'd love this picture. This is great. 01:04:04.16 Dave Very dramatic. Yeah, it's very good. Yeah, and everyone who's got their mouths wide open screaming. Everyone just looks so goofy. So um, yeah, ah. 01:04:15.60 Nina Yeah. 01:04:19.37 Dave So what happens in the story here is Sebastian Cloudsley Wills the idol to Willard Wright and part of the puzzle is you read the will and you use the will to determine who these people are based on what they have so Willard Wright has the idol so you can identify him with that. He set somebody on fire who tried to steal it from him because there was a plot to try and take the idol from him but he knew how to do it so that was like the first puzzle that really I had to really sit down and think. 01:04:53.49 Nina I think in this game the first one really throws you because they give you 2 really simple ones of just clicking on things and putting it all together and this one is very much looking at what everyone has, look at what they're wearing, look at who they are. 01:05:12.73 Nina Piece it together. Um, so this one definitely took me much longer and it's like oh this is what the game is okay I like this. So. 01:05:21.40 Dave Um, yeah, yeah, case 4 and like they increase in complexity as you go. It's a pretty smooth ramp up of like the number of words in each puzzle. But. I had a kind of roller coaster of how difficult I found them all, like case number 4 took me a long time to figure out case 3 made me think but ultimately wasn't that hard case 4 was tough. And then like there were a couple more in the middle of the game where I was like stumped and then like the last 3 puzzles were fairly simple even though they're way more complex like I think I just like got what the game wanted from me by that point but number 4 the murder at the little mermaid. 01:06:10.23 Nina Yeah. 01:06:17.13 Dave Ah, they're at an inn and the story here is that Willard Wright still has the idol this is years later many years later um Willard Wright has the idol but a thief comes in kills him steals the idol and then gives it back to Edmund Cloudsley who's now very old. In this scene I remember it has some red herrings in it like there's some. Ah, there's an escaped convict outside who's like easy to blame the guy out the window you escaped convict. Obviously he killed the guy who has nothing to do with this scene whatsoever. So nice red herring there. There's like. 01:06:54.85 Dave Words written in blood on the wall that only kind of connect to what's going on. It's ah it's a stumper and then one of the puzzles downstairs is like figuring out who Owes how much money in the card game. They're playing has nothing to do with the murder at all. It's just. 01:07:02.84 Nina It's rough. 01:07:11.83 Dave Another thing about the scene they want you to figure out. 01:07:14.58 Nina I Love and hate this case because this is the one that I was stuck on for a really long time because of the red herrings. There were just so many things, so many different um suspects and objects I couldn't figure out what was going on. 01:07:21.61 Dave Ah, yeah. 01:07:32.34 Nina Especially about who the murderer was and like trying to figure things out and like you said you go downstairs you got to figure out like who's winning the game who's got this money who Owes Owes money and it's it's a lot. 01:07:49.30 Nina This one really did stump me. 01:07:53.35 Dave Yeah, me too. I think this was one of the first ones where I just brute forced the name of the person who killed him because I just couldn't figure it out. But um. 01:08:05.19 Dave Yeah, case 5 is called the intoxicating dinner party and this is you know we get into like a classic murder mystery here. So somebody has died and it turns out the story here. It turns out. Is that the brotherhood which is like that secret society that Willard was a part of ah Willard and then Sebastian from case 2 the brotherhood is mad that Edmund stole the idol they wanted and they tried to poison him they convinced one of the servants to try and poison him. Um, but another person drank the poison instead and they died so they're the one who died so this one just increases the complexity of the level There's like I think there's 4 screens that you can click through forgot to say that in the non-spoiler section ring the bell. Everyone but the levels get more complex so like you'll start out in case, 1 and 2 it's just 1 screen. Everything on that 1 screen case 3 has 2 screens or cases. Yeah case 3 and case 4 have 2 screens case 5 has 4 and so like there's just. More information, more stuff. There's more characters. Um, yeah, it's. 01:09:23.52 Nina Yeah, that 's so much in this case. Um, so case 4 the one that I don't like um was the first time I ever used the hint system and then I saw case 5 with the 4 rooms and. 01:09:41.22 Nina Like oh I'm not going to use this hint system because it's bad and I actually did enjoy this one. It just took me a really long time to connect the dots and like put every 1 together and this is also one of those where you have to look at what people are wearing and what they have with them. 01:09:42.45 Dave Okay. 01:09:52.10 Dave Yeah. 01:10:00.20 Nina What you can see and who they are ah I actually did like this one because most mostly because I came off of case 4 and case four was rough. 01:10:04.48 Dave Yeah. All right? So 2 things First of all I thought you were going to say this is the first case where you looked at how much there was and went what the fuck how am I going to do this because like there's a point. Maybe this was the first one and then every single case from here on out I open it up for the first time and I'm like oh my god there's 50 words. How am I going to do this and then I you know I do it but I went through that thought process every time. 01:10:39.72 Nina It's actually the next case case six was the one that I opened up and I was like what is going on. 01:10:50.62 Dave Um, and then this ah this case also is the first one I think where you have to figure something out for 1 of like the thinking tab things and it seems tangential like. You have to figure out because there's a young woman in here and there's 2 guys who want her attention basically and this comes back in the last case and like I was surprised that they brought it back but I was happy that I remembered. Like and another thing you can go back to old cases and look at them again which is really helpful as it gets further on. But yeah, um, the first time when I needed to figure out who these people were that wanted this young woman's love, but it wasn't important for this one. It was important for later. Ah, so that's cool. Um, but this one was tough. 01:11:42.57 Nina Um, yeah, there's a lot of like characters that pop up throughout um, different cases and it's just I think it's so well done because you'll forget about somebody and then have to go back and look and. 01:11:56.35 Dave Yeah, yeah, this one was tough. It took me a long time to figure out which of the servants was the murderer I like. I just couldn't couldn't do it. One of the puzzles is you have to put them in there. 01:11:58.76 Nina Yeah. 01:12:15.56 Dave They're rooms in order. But from there I had a really hard time because I didn't quite understood understand what the brotherhood was I didn't because it it's like he got a threatening letter from like the dark hand or whatever the fuck it's called and I was like I don't know what that is who were these people but. 01:12:35.90 Dave It makes sense as you go um, case 6 the one that you felt overwhelmed by at first called. Ah, yeah, called the explosive events in the forest cabin. This one is really fun. I like this case a lot. Um, you have 2 screens. 01:12:48.12 Nina Yeah, yeah. 01:12:53.23 Dave Ah, 3 screens, 1 of them outside. 1 of them is inside where a dog is attacking a Zorro looking dude then in the next screen. Ah you see what looks like a vase that has exploded and there are 2 people that are like. 01:13:11.91 Dave Gotten killed by the explosion but they're in midair and because it's animated and drawn in that freeze frame but like everything's still kind of moving back and forth. Ah, these people in the air are super goofy and I just really love the way that they drew this. 01:13:27.31 Nina Um, it's like the perfect balance of serious and so funny at the same time and I love the animation in this game. 01:13:32.88 Dave Yeah what's happening in this is that the brotherhood is again trying to steal the idol from edmund because they failed in the previous case and to do that they sent a famous thief named Walter keen. But. Edmund uses the golden idol to make a trap and kill 2 of the thieves. This is the first case where you see the idol doing something well, not not true. You saw that it said someone on fire. This is the first case where you read instructions for how to use the idol. 01:14:10.57 Dave And that's one of the things that you have to solve and so you learn that what the idol can do is like take something from something and give it to something else or something like that. So what he does is he takes air from outside. Creates like a vacuum or something in this vase and then when they break it to try and get the idol out it explodes and kills them so he makes a trap. Yeah, it was tough. 01:14:34.99 Nina I will say that manual is confusing. Oh that that manual I'm like if I don't want the golden idol like I don't know how to use that. But this is like you go 6 cases in and now you kind of figure out what it's for and why everyone's after it. And I really do like this for the story progression. 01:14:53.67 Dave Yeah, yeah for sure and learning like the magic system that it's working on like this is how it works you can it shows ua rotten piece of fruit in the room. And you're not sure how yet, but you'll learn how later but you do learn that it can transfer heat onto something if you pull heat from something else. That's how they set him on fire in the previous case. Um, so. 01:15:25.10 Nina Yeah. 01:15:29.81 Dave Yeah, that one is cool. The other point that I thought was cool about this case, 6 is in the room where the idol is hidden. There's a chest and inside the chest. There is a very old man inside the chest. 01:15:47.18 Dave You can infer and I think it's one of the summary things that asks you like it says like edmund killed them so you can infer that that's edmund in there. He looks like he's like 300 years old in this ah in this scene and so yeah. 01:15:48.63 Nina Yeah. 01:16:00.40 Nina Yes, which is a great setup for everything that happens after this because it's fantastic, but um, yeah, love this love this scene. Love this chapter. So good. 01:16:05.82 Dave Yeah. 01:16:16.10 Dave And it kind of supports the story that people tell about what happened here because people don't tell the truth about the events here. Um, there's a guy who got bashed over the head. I think that's David Gorran who comes back. 01:16:20.51 Nina Um, yes. 01:16:33.67 Dave Many times in the story. He tells everyone that edmund died in that event and it's plausible because he's 3 he looks like he's 300 years old and there was an explosion. So yeah. 01:16:36.41 Nina Yes. 01:16:44.20 Nina Um, exactly which is going to set up the rest of the story and I don't know the way they think this is fantastic. When you go back and replay it and you see all of the signs. It's great. 01:16:53.50 Dave Um, yeah yeah I didn't ah replay it but I did go back and look through all the solutions and look through all of the scenes and take my screenshots and stuff. And I was like wow they really seeded this really? Well I just didn't know what I was looking at yet case 7 is called the strange practices of a secretive society and in this case, you get to see the brotherhood. You could see them with all their masks. 01:17:09.45 Nina Yeah, yeah. 01:17:25.60 Dave Ah, they're robes 1 of the puzzles is to match, like which faction wears each mask, which rank wears each robe and you have to use that to identify the people in the scene. Um up top. There is a ritual going on. Challenged Walter Keene said he was lying and so they had this old fashioned ritual where they drank poison or something like that and he survived the challenger died and part of the puzzle is figuring out who's in these masks. 01:18:05.49 Dave And it's really tough. This was one I needed help with. I could not figure out that there was trickery happening in this ritual. 01:18:10.34 Nina Yeah, this was a hard one. I think this might be my favorite case though because it took me so long and I was trying to figure it out because it's very much. It's a logical puzzle. 01:18:27.90 Dave With. 01:18:29.50 Nina Like you have to look at very specific things but it will take you a moment. It'll take you a long time to read everything, think about it and then match the masks, the cloaks, the colors to who is who. 01:18:34.22 Dave Yeah. 01:18:48.10 Dave Yeah, and I think the detail that I saw but overlooked and then forgot about was I think outside of this like a temple. There's ah, an initiate who's in the. 01:19:02.40 Dave In the Bushes who's been knocked out and you can tell he's part of the brotherhood because he has a tattoo and inside they have a guide to the tattoos or a brand. Um, so that should tell you that like oh this guy got knocked out someone stole his clothes but I just I just like saw it. Like is that thing where I started the case. It's the first thing I saw so I clicked on it and gathered all the words and then just forgot. So yeah, yeah. 01:19:21.66 Nina Yeah, because it's the first thing you see is the guy in the Bushes and so you won't connect it until later when you find the clue that tells you to look at everyone's tattoos and markings and. 01:19:32.98 Dave Yeah. 01:19:38.63 Dave Yeah, yeah, it's really good and then downstairs here. There's a new initiate to the brotherhood named Lazarus Hurst who's being initiated and you have to solve a little puzzle about the ritual for initiation or something like that. 01:19:58.33 Dave Ah, the name Lazarus should have meant something to me but it didn't because again I'm not the most observant person all the time. 01:20:07.70 Nina I I loved that downstairs section because I also for the longest time didn't know what to do with it or who he was or what was happening because there's a part in the thinking section where it's like you have to name that person who it is and what they are doing. 01:20:27.46 Nina Um, and the way you figure it out is very fun just trying to piece together again. It's like the markings, the masks, the colors, etc. 01:20:37.86 Dave Yeah, but I just didn't put 2 and 2 together with that name and what happened in the previous scene but we'll we'll come to. We'll come to learn. Um. 01:20:44.88 Nina Yes, yeah. 01:20:52.84 Dave Case number 8 is called the crowning celebration by the lighthouse and this is one of my favorite little mini stories like mini stories as part of the greater story. So ah, Lazarus Hearst is part of this brotherhood and they have this like deity or whatever. Called the Griffin reborn and at any time somebody can claim to be this. You know Griffin reborn that would make them the leader of the brotherhood. Um, and if someone does that they have to perform a miracle basically and if someone does that somebody else. We'll try to match the miracle that they did and so like if someone can match it then the person who is claiming to be the Griffin reborn would be killed for lying and then if the other person can't match the miracle then they'd be like oh you're the real deal. You're the griffin reborn. I loved it that there was a guy. Named Angus Bain in this scene who has a long history of debunking these miracles. It's like the coolest role. It's like oh you think you're the Griffin reborn angus will get you and he's gotten like 6 people in the past. 01:22:05.60 Nina Ah, oh I Love him at this. The scene is so great. 01:22:12.60 Dave Ah, but not not this time angus didn't get him this time. There's a dead body at the bottom of the lighthouse that's angus. Um, what happened was Lazarus Hearst claimed that he could fly so he jumped off of the top of the lighthouse. He had the golden idol hidden in his walking stick and he used the golden idols to create air power to slow his fall when he was falling down and yeah, he was fine and then Angus. Jumped off, tried to duplicate it and he died a terrible death but this proves to everybody else that Lazarus is the real deal and he becomes the leader of the brotherhood. That's what this is about but all you see on like the freeze frame is. Lazarus down at the bottom and then all these people kneeling in front of him like presenting him with like this ah ornamental thing I don't I don't know what it's called, but um, yeah, all that's all you see and you piece together this whole story. 01:23:10.70 Nina Yeah. 01:23:19.32 Dave All of this story's self-contained in this scene and you see so little. But it's all there and you put it all together. It's really, it's one of my favorite cases. 01:23:29.17 Nina It's so well done and this is like I think this case really encapsulates what the game's about it's you will never know what happened here unless you look at everything because you just see the legs you see somebody is obviously dead. 01:23:33.27 Dave Yeah. 01:23:44.85 Nina And then you're looking at people praising another guy. So let's piece it together what happened here and it's that's that's the whole heart of the game. 01:23:56.64 Dave Yeah I think if I had to point out either a favorite. Ah maybe this one's not my favorite because case 10 is just like great from a story perspective. 01:24:07.80 Nina My question? yes. 01:24:11.80 Dave This one might be my favorite as it is just emblematic of why this game is so good. Why these puzzles are so good and why like how they can do self-contained story when giving you so little direct storytelling. You know. 01:24:25.23 Nina Yeah, it's really hard to explain this game to people who haven't played it when you're like it's 1 frozen moment in time and you have to solve the mystery and I think this one is a prime example of like you can't tell what happened here. 01:24:41.85 Dave Yeah. 01:24:43.42 Nina By looking at it you like because case one you obviously know what's going on but here it's like what happened what did we miss between chapter 7 and chapter 8 Um, and I think it's just very well done. 01:24:46.31 Dave Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:24:59.42 Dave Yeah, ah case 9 is called the interrupted weekend at the doctor's salon and this has a dead guy. He's been killed by a boomerang which is from this ah country called lemuria I think that's what they called it? Um, it is like a. In my eyes like in India or Sri Lanka stand-in um, again british colonial history and they have a lemurian like diplomat almost there with them. So it's a bunch of these nobles these rich white guys and then they have. 01:25:17.58 Nina Nice, yeah. 01:25:35.25 Dave This Lemurian guy there too and I think they did this . This has one of the best red herrings in the story I think because when you start the story. There. This guy's Dead. He's killed by a Laurian Weapon. So Everyone in the scene or like ah at least a couple people in the scene are like well this guy obviously did it. He knows how to use these weapons. It's his um but it's not his but he was also stealing from the room that they're in they have these like these tablets that indicate. 01:25:57.83 Nina Yeah, yeah. 01:26:11.74 Dave Ah, Clans like families or something like that and he stole his family's tablet back so he was in there doing something wrong. It would make in above the tablet. The display of the tablets. There are the Lemurian weapons hanging on the wall. 01:26:27.96 Nina Yeah. 01:26:30.35 Dave And the one that's missing from the wall is the one that killed the guy. So like that's an easy connection to make where it's like oh he was stealing this guy caught him stealing he grabbed a weapon and he killed him That's not what happened. 01:26:39.15 Nina Right? This is oh my gosh. This one is filled with red herrings though there are so many things that misdirect you in so many different ways. There are a lot of scenes and a lot of words to pick up this one I. 01:26:46.31 Dave Yeah. 01:26:54.12 Dave Yeah, yeah. 01:26:58.70 Nina Do think was the one that took me the longest because of just how many things and how many how many times I had to sit. Okay, let's look at what happened based on what I can see again. The thing of like. 01:27:06.38 Dave Yeah. 01:27:14.81 Nina You have to look at everything in the background, you have to look at everything that's on your screen Even if you can't click on it like that's it. So um, what a great story. 01:27:25.96 Dave Yeah, ah this is the first case that introduces multiple locations. So like when you leave this library area or whatever where the person died it takes you to like an overhead look at the. 01:27:30.69 Nina Oh yeah. 01:27:42.98 Dave Manner grounds and then you can click on different places and go there and you see like a place where people were playing chess and then there's a place where people were playing cricket and there's a fountain and they're all separate little map screens that you can go to and they all have different clues on them. 01:28:00.91 Dave Um, and this comes back in a big way in the last case. Um, but this case also introduces a time like you have to figure out when this person died and part of it is figuring it out. 01:28:20.13 Dave Okay, this is what happened in the morning. This is what happened at lunchtime. This is what happened in the afternoon so you have to like track the movement of all these people through this scene too. It's like ah another layer of complexity that this was really hard. 01:28:33.54 Nina This is very hard because like we've said it's It's one moment in time where you're given clues about what happened before anything happened and so you have to piece together. What could have possibly happened to lead to this point and. 01:28:50.44 Dave Yeah. 01:28:52.22 Nina And I think it's just very well executed on this specific case and it's ah it's a hard 1 01:29:01.42 Dave Yeah, it also has an element of um people who are drugged. One of the clues is a 1 of the clues is like an ah painting on the wall of like common. 01:29:14.17 Dave Hallucinogenic plants found in the area which is like you know I love to have a painting of that in my study or something. Yeah, exactly. But it was tough, very very tough. So what's absolutely happening in the story here is this is a political story. So it's introducing. 01:29:16.27 Nina Um, yeah, it's called home decor. 01:29:33.77 Dave Ah, the politics of this area. So the brotherhood has changed. Lazarus has changed the brotherhood now. It's called the order party and um, they are trying. He's trying to become the prime minister. So. What actually happened here is he killed 1 of his political challengers and then framed the other person for its death or for their death so political machinations which become important in the next case because ah, you'll see what the order party does when they're in power. Ah, which is very cool and fucked up so that next case is called the triumph of order and what you're doing in this case is there is an old man being carried out. He's dead. So that's the dead person in this thing and. This is the scene that teaches you what's going on with the order while they're in power. So what the order have done is they've set up a set of Virtues moderation, diligence , beauty and truth and anybody who breaks these virtues is deducted merits and you get like. Balance books of how many merits somebody has gained or lost what they did to break these merits so things like lying, lust , laziness and outlandish fashion. They outlawed music and literature. Um and even showing emotion in public. 01:31:09.55 Dave Are published by demerits. Um, they all have different values and 1 of the big puzzles here is once you identify the people you have to write down what their balance was after all of these merits and demerits. Ah, so let's say somebody donated his castle and he gets plus two hundred merits. One person offered his daughter to marry a party member and that's plus 15 um, and so you're like okay yeah, merit. Social credit score or something like that right? Ah no, that's not what these are. 01:31:53.91 Nina I hated this chapter, the puzzle and the math of this puzzle hurt. Ah, it's a lot of figuring out what each person did and then doing the math of. 01:31:55.26 Dave The puzzle or the story. Ok. 01:32:10.30 Nina Their merits demerit How it works. Um, so I do think this is my least favorite one. The story's great, but the puzzle really gets in the way of me enjoying it. 01:32:10.60 Dave Yeah. 01:32:21.14 Dave The puzzle's tough because you have you see their little balance book and that will say like 5 counts of not working or like 5 times. It's actually harder than that because it will say like. 5 times deducted for refusing to get a job and then you have to look at the different merits or virtues and be like okay where does this fit in these rules. What rule are they breaking so that's a step. 01:32:57.94 Dave And then step 2 is figuring out that each time they break the rule they get deducted for that time. So that's what was tough and what makes it tough helps you figure it out I suppose. In the scene you learn that merits are not a social credit standing. They're years of their life that are being deducted or given to them for what they do so ah Horace Webb in this story donated a castle. 01:33:23.95 Nina Yes. 01:33:33.11 Dave For plus 200 years of his life, he only did that because he lost one hundred and eighty years for 60 counts of sloth because he refused to get a job for 60 years or something like that or sixty months whatever it's like. 01:33:44.73 Nina Yeah. 01:33:50.31 Dave This person was given this extremely desperate situation where they're going to take away one hundred and eighty years of his life which would instantly kill him and then he's like okay I'll give you my castle and they're like okay that's plus 200 so your balance is plus twenty have a good day sir you know. 01:34:07.45 Nina But I do like that they added this in because this is going to take us to the end of the story. Um, and what the Golden Idol is and how they use it. 01:34:13.32 Dave Yeah. 01:34:21.28 Nina But yeah, this is such a messed up chapter story wise because of when you figure out what the numbers mean and why people are using certain um Merits or demerits for things. So um, just very good plotwise. But yeah I did not like the puzzle. 01:34:27.15 Dave M. 01:34:38.59 Dave Yeah. 01:34:40.70 Nina Of it all because the puzzle is a lot because you have to look at different places for your numbers for what people are doing wrong, but they're doing right? do the math on it. 01:34:47.43 Dave Um, yeah I mean I I broke out a piece of paper and a pen and my calculator to do the math on these. Um, what's ah, what's really fucked up here is the old man that's being carried out. 01:35:04.47 Dave Ah, he is from the previous case there was a young noble named Gideon Bell in that and he has outlandish fashion. He has a really goofy hat on everything. Um, in this one. 01:35:18.96 Dave He was being interrogated for sloth because he didn't get a job in 1 count of fashion again. He has a very stylish I think it's blue haircut and that's against the rules and then while they're interrogating him so that would have been like I don't know just doing some quick math estimate. 01:35:38.96 Dave 2020 years or something like that. But while they're interrogating him. He cried 10 times and that's part of the puzzle. It's really fucked up part of the puzzle is figuring out I have to count these every time every time he cried he loses 5 years of his life or whatever the number was. 01:35:52.34 Nina Yep. 01:35:58.22 Dave So they use the idol as one of the things. The idol can take years from someone's life. That's how they had aged the fruit in the previous scene as they did that to the Apple. Um. So they used the idol to take 88 years off of his life which took him from age 20 to age 108 and instantly killed him and that's the old man they're carrying out which is like super fucked up and then they take those years and they give it to themselves. 01:36:28.21 Nina Which is so awful the second you realize what's going on and what the idol is for and what they're using it for is such a revelation I think this is just so perfectly crafted of like they had the hints in earlier cases and that once you get here, You're like oh. 01:36:33.76 Dave Yeah. 01:36:42.46 Dave M. Yeah, yeah, and yeah, he was not an old man when he came in and he yeah it's like just a you you always hear and like you see in fiction right? like all of these stories about how. 01:36:48.00 Nina Okay, that man died. 01:36:53.81 Nina Um, yep, yeah yep. 01:37:05.73 Dave Rich and powerful prey on everybody else and they might do these nefarious things to live forever or something like that. But this is a really cool idea for how they do it like so they have this social credit system but instead of someone having negative credit. You know. Not being able to get an apartment or something like that like there's a black mirror episode like that that was really good. Um, what they do is they just literally take the years off of your life. Maybe you can earn them back though, maybe not or maybe you'll just be killed instantly. 01:37:27.81 Nina Okay. 01:37:39.41 Nina Yeah, it's definitely like that black mirror episode and like you have the moral credits based off of somebody who is saying this is right? This is wrong. Um, so it's very interesting. 01:37:48.88 Dave Um, yeah, and also like let's not forget that the rules that you're not allowed to break are incredibly strict like. 01:38:01.89 Nina Yes, me. 01:38:04.67 Dave You're not allowed to have books You're not allowed to listen to music. You're not allowed to have what they deem to be outlandish fashion. You have to work. You are not allowed to not have a job. You are not allowed to be lustful. You can't lie and the last one which got Gideon killed. You can't show outward emotion and I think there's even like 1 of the brotherhood people says something like I know emotion is forbidden so I'm holding back. But like this is pretty fucked or something like that. There's a quote from them. 01:38:23.55 Nina Yeah. 01:38:35.55 Nina And that's what's so fun about this game is like you can see the quotes from each person and what they're thinking in the moment and that's also how you infer things and yeah, that's one of those of like I can't show a motion that adds to the story of they can't cry because they're going to lose. 01:38:54.86 Dave Yeah, yeah, so this takes us to the last case which is case 11 the slight delay in the peaceful March to the king's castle um Lazarus and the order are about to March to the castle and confront the king. 01:38:55.43 Nina Years off their life. 01:39:11.44 Dave Ah, because the king does not recognize the order's authority or respect them or anything like that at the same time Walter Keane who was the thief many times ago is upset because he lost 32 years of his life in the previous chapter you had to solve a bunch of people's credits. And Walter Keene was one of them. So if by now you realize that these stories are continuing and you realize ah Walter Keene had 32 years taken from him and he plots to kill Lazarus um, and this is the scene where you. Should figure out that Lazarus is Edmund Cloudsley who they said was dead but he's just been living under this fake identity um did you figure this out before the final epilogue chapter. No. 01:40:02.53 Nina No I never did . I think this last case and the epilogue were very shocking to me because I hadn't pieced it together. But once it clicked I was like. 01:40:07.85 Dave Okay. 01:40:16.76 Dave Um, yeah. 01:40:20.59 Nina Oh that would have made sense and I just replayed the game to prepare for this episode and I'm like there were signs everywhere they're hidden throughout the whole game until you get to this point. So I think a first playthrough is always so fun when you don't know what you're getting into but. 01:40:26.68 Dave Yeah. 01:40:39.79 Nina Replaying. It is super fun when you can see the clues. 01:40:43.48 Dave Yeah I think what clued me in was throughout a lot of the early scenes edmund always had a handkerchief with his initials on it and then in this last scene Lazarus has it. 01:40:52.68 Nina Yes. Should make sense. Yeah. 01:41:00.34 Dave So I was like oh okay I got it and then part of the plot here is that Lazarus is ultimate. Undoing isn't because he tries to take on the king or something like that woman that he was trying to woo. Back at the dinner party scene. He came back and tried to steal her away but she married the other guy from that scene. Peter Batley who he drew so there's a picture that he drew back then and it's of him fighting a tiger. He's like talking about how. He would fight a tiger for her. It's very stupid. It's something that a fourth grader would draw for a girl. He had a crush on. 01:41:41.29 Nina Um, yes, yeah I Love that picture like I I think there's like because there's a whole puzzle about that picture like you have to find the words in it. 01:41:53.90 Dave Yeah. 01:41:55.44 Nina Gosh It's such a crude drawing. 01:41:59.63 Dave Yeah, um, so the guy Peter Battley who Peter Battley this ties in in case number 3 the guy who was on fire. He's the one who tried to steal the idol. Tried to get 1 of the servants to steal the idol. The servant was the one who was on fire. Um, now he has the woman and I did not write her name down anyway, um, Lazarus comes to try and kidnap her and Peter Batley kills him by shooting him with a cannon. Which is very funny and it's the same mansion from case number 2 that the canon is in um, the idol is broken in the explosion and is sold for scrap. So like that's the end of the story. 01:42:51.32 Dave The idol is broken. They sell it for scrap but like the person who buys it might know what it is who knows yeah um and then the order party is torn down. 01:42:54.79 Nina Um, yeah, it's like the end question Mark maybe. 01:43:09.42 Dave Basically or vandalized the order party is disbanded. We'll say and there's like ah rejoice the people rejoice because they can wear funny hats again show emotions. Yeah, this last case. 01:43:11.48 Nina Um. 01:43:20.26 Nina Um, yeah, good for them. 01:43:27.38 Dave Was really tough. It's very complex. There's like 8 locations. There's a lot of people involved. It took me a long time. People have been aged by the idol or de-aged by the idol. So it's kind of hard to figure out who these people are. 01:43:40.90 Nina Yeah. 01:43:45.38 Dave The guy who looked like Zorro 3 cases ago. He's now an old man shirtless in a pond like laying in ambush. 01:43:53.77 Nina I was going to say the same thing. This was very hard for me to identify who was who and what was happening because obviously we know what the idol does at this point um is so yeah, this is this a long one. 01:43:56.70 Dave Yeah. 01:44:06.30 Dave Yeah, um, and then after this, you get the epilogue. It's called the grand vision of a better new world and this spells out the story for you if you didn't pick it up along the way. Um, the 1 thing that I didn't understand was. Like I knew how Edmund could reappear younger as Lazarus Hearst but they didn't show you that happening. He just did so this shows you he stole the years from a homeless person outside on the street and gave it to himself. 01:44:38.12 Nina He is such a good guy. 01:44:38.52 Dave Very fucked up as a sign of things to come. 01:44:44.96 Dave Yeah, um, yeah, so that's the main game. Um I like the last three cases are a step up in complexity but I felt like I was in a good groove by the time I got to the end here. 01:44:48.80 Nina Yeah. 01:44:59.86 Nina Yeah I think it very reasonably steps you up as you go like obviously the first like 3 4 chapters they kind of ease you into it and then it gets a little bit more ramped up and then you. 01:45:14.40 Dave Yeah. 01:45:18.35 Nina Have recurring characters as well. So that makes it a little bit easier. So when you see your thinking tab. It's not like oh you don't know anybody on the screen you're trying to link everything together and I think that's really well done. 01:45:26.89 Dave Yeah, yeah, it's it's um I think it could have gotten easy for things to spiral out of control. But even in the last scene where you have all these different locations. It was tough but I still figured it out. And anything that I needed a hint with once I saw what it was you see it is there. Maybe you needed to pull information from like 5 cases ago people but it is there. You've seen it. You've seen all this stuff. It's just a matter of putting it all together. Um. 01:46:09.39 Dave Deal c number one is called the spider of Lanka I didn't really write that many notes because I thought the story was very ah like just kind of ok um, the puzzles were fun like there's a plot to. 01:46:26.60 Dave Again, they have like this ritual for who's going to become the new I think they called the raji or like the the new leader of the ah the people there's like a plot to sabotage that and then there's like bodies switched in and there's poisonous insects and all kinds of like crazy shit going on. Um, but. 01:46:41.71 Nina Yeah. 01:46:46.15 Dave I thought it was okay. The first case of this is a card game that turned violent and so you open it up and there's like 8 dead bodies in there and you have to figure out. There's like a. Domino's falling off like this guy kills this guy so this guy gets up and kills the guy who killed the first guy and stuff like that that was really fun. That's my favorite case. Yeah. 01:47:08.79 Nina That was my favorite puzzle. It was so good because it was like you said Domino effect of like this happened and then that happened and then this happened and you have to connect the dots. Um, but I agree with you. 01:47:24.27 Nina Storywise This was not my favorite I think I was just really excited when this dlc came out that I was like oh I have more I have more puzzles This is great and the puzzles are fantastic, but this story is not super memorable and um. 01:47:36.35 Dave Um, yeah. 01:47:39.41 Nina Yeah, what I remember the most about it is that card game. 01:47:40.65 Dave Yeah, it's awesome and like I you saying that just kind of made me think like I would take 1 golden idol puzzle a month for the rest of my life that would be great. 01:47:53.56 Nina Yes, be so fantastic I'm like I keep pumping out the Dlcs I want. These beats are great. Um I don't care if the story is fantastic but I like the puzzles and like hunting for things and figuring out and inferring. 01:47:56.92 Dave Yeah. 01:48:08.77 Nina What's going on in the scene? 01:48:10.54 Dave Yeah, for sure. Um, I thought about the story in the second dlc. The lemurian vampire was a lot cooler because it's more idle stuff. It's more idle magic. 01:48:22.40 Nina Yes, um I was super excited about this one because I didn't know it was releasing until I pulled up steam and it was like oh new Dlc for golden idol I was like okay bought installed ready to go. 01:48:36.61 Nina And this actually does get into more idle lore which is very exciting and I think I struggled with this one a little bit more than the first dlc because the puzzles are a lot harder. 01:48:49.64 Dave Yeah, they are tough. There's 3 puzzles. The first one I got by myself, the second one I had to Google like someone to help me for something. Because I think the second one is like that puzzle where it's like you need to figure out who's supposed to deliver what to the guy and the person who you think is supposed to deliver something isn't the one who did it and I like missing the connecting piece there. Yeah. 01:49:23.26 Nina Yeah, that one has a lot of red herrings. There's a lot of extra information you don't need and that's it. It was a tough 1 01:49:30.53 Dave Yeah, yeah, what's happening in the story if you're just following along. This is a continuation of Dlc one so dlc one is like back backstory dlc two is backstory and Dlc 2 ends with ah Albert Cloudsley and Oberin Geller from the first case of the main game getting the idol. So. It's like directly before that. So it ties everything together really well. But what actually happened was these nobles. Zubiri and Tissa and their sword master like their guard. Their guard will say um, are shipwrecked and they wash up on this island and this is where the idol is this whole time. Um, they. Are taken in by the locals. These are the lemurians and there's a tower outside the village. This is just so cool. There's a tower there with something inside of it that they call the dweller that's using the golden idol to hurt the village. And I think the first it's either the first or second puzzle you have to put together like the legend of the tower and the dweller and like to learn what their belief and what their ritual is to deal with it. 01:50:56.60 Nina Yeah, it's a lot like building the world and building the lore before the main game and that's what this dlc is. It is just like figuring out what happened before why things were happening and who is in charge of what. 01:51:04.58 Dave Yeah, yeah. 01:51:16.44 Nina It's very well done but it's very confusing at the same time because you're trying to prepare and if you've played the main game you kind of know so like some names you know what happens which will help you. But At the same time I struggled with this one. 01:51:35.38 Dave Yeah, it's tough. Ah what got me so storywise the village is being tormented by this tower dweller that has the idol so they have an elected official in the village called the sentinel that is supposed to watch. And chase the dweller away like when it comes out or something like that just defend the village from the tower dweller and then when they die their bodies are put in these urns at the base of the tower and they think that that helps protect them as well. So tissa is one of the shipwrecked people from the first dlc. Ah, he's a noble. Um, he's elected to be the new sentinel and in case, 2 he dies and there's a very aged skeleton in his bed. So you think the dweller ran in to use the idol to take all the years away from him because this what happened in the main game and that's not what happened and it tripped me up so badly. 01:52:36.13 Nina No, there's a lot of misdirection in this dlc all over the place. Oh no I had to like brute force half of this dlc because I was. 01:52:43.23 Dave Yeah, yeah, so did you get this? did you figure out what was going on. No okay. 01:52:55.77 Nina So confused until it pops up with that message at the end of like this is what happened I might oh that makes sense. Okay. 01:53:00.16 Dave Yeah, so what happened was those old sentinel bodies that were in those urns one of those urns in case number 2 is like the lid is slightly off and I saw that I remember seeing that and like. 01:53:19.43 Dave I must have forgotten what was in those urns but what happened was somebody took one of the skeletons out of the urn, put it in the bed and then pushed him out of his window and there's a pond of piranhas in the lake down there. 01:53:31.84 Nina Yeah, yeah. 01:53:35.40 Dave And you know that that's what happened because I think his ring is down in the lake and you can find his ring. 01:53:38.67 Nina Yes, and this is like what makes this game this game like it's that misdirection it's that you have to look at everything on your screen and follow the trail to what actually happened because yeah, that ring is there. 01:53:44.41 Dave Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 01:53:58.66 Nina You can see clearly what happened. But if you can't put that together quick enough. You're like you're not going to get it. 01:54:08.50 Dave Yeah, ah it was tough like I was. I was so close but it was just where the skeleton came from that tripped me up. So yeah, um, case 3 the last one tells you actually what's been going on here. 01:54:10.40 Nina Um, yeah. 01:54:16.57 Nina Oh yeah, no idea. 01:54:26.27 Dave Actually the Tower Dweller is just a. It's a robot for some reason how there's a robot in there but there is ah and yeah, ah is ah you should be able to suspend your disbelief like this is a very magical and weird world. So there's a robot in the tower. 01:54:31.60 Nina Because why not. 01:54:38.99 Nina Um, yes. 01:54:44.87 Dave 1 of the other elected officials in the village named Lavu Mata who's the guardian of children. That's her role in the village she hundreds of years ago figured out the idol was in there and she figured out how to use it. There's a ah list of. 01:55:03.52 Dave Voice commands that you can find in there. So she's the one who took the years away from the sentinels, gave those years to herself and then said oh the tower dweller came out and killed the sentinel. Oh no, but it was actually her doing it the whole time. 01:55:21.55 Nina Gosh this case is so messed up. 01:55:21.99 Dave Um, yeah, it's great. Um, and also ah, not lost on me. She's the Guardian of children. So she's in charge of all the kids in the village so she can just brainwash them for their whole lives. 01:55:34.48 Nina Um, yeah, who. 01:55:39.86 Dave To support her own goals here. 01:55:43.35 Nina Yeah, that was that that was fun to kind of match everyone up with like their jobs and then figuring out what she actually does and um yeah, the story in this one is so much better than the first dlc I Think yes. 01:55:49.78 Dave Yeah. Yeah, absolutely because it's It's more fucked up Idol stories and that's it's great and like in the sequel Upcoming. It's called Rise of the Golden idols. I think we can expect some more crazy Idol shenanigans. Yeah. 01:56:01.17 Nina That's what we need. 01:56:10.62 Nina I'm ready. 01:56:13.83 Dave And then at the end of this case. Um, one of the people Zuberi who is the other castaway, figured out the voice commands for the um, the robot that's holding the idol and um. 01:56:31.39 Dave Just kind of caused everything to go into a crisis mode and right as that happened over and Geller and Albert Cloudsley arrive they steal the idol there. I think there's someone who dies when they're making an escape but they're the last. The scene of it is them running out of a cave with the idol so smoothly into the first case. So it's really cool like this last dlc sets up the main game story super well and gives us a really cool idle story of how people use it too. 01:56:54.10 Nina Yes. 01:57:09.16 Nina Yeah I love this. It's kind of like a full circle moment I mean as much as I like the first dlc This is the one that fully connects everything and just felt like it was more part of the series. So I can't wait for a sequel and seeing. 01:57:09.55 Dave Keep themselves in power. 01:57:20.30 Dave Yeah. 01:57:28.30 Nina More shenanigans and people trying to take control of this idol because it's great. 01:57:30.26 Dave Yeah, absolutely you know one thing I like about the idol too is it has like a really specific set of rules that people have to follow to use it like it can only do certain things. It can't do any magic you want. 01:57:49.10 Dave Take heat away from something and give it to something else. It can take age away from something and give it to something else. It can't be like I don't know it can't make something appear out of thin air in front of you like whatever you want it can't like. 01:57:51.86 Nina Yeah. 01:57:59.46 Nina Um, maybe. 01:58:06.72 Dave I Don't know if you get the point. It can't do whatever you want. You have to learn its rules and work within its established rules which is cool. I like a magic system that's set up with clear rules that limit its power but it's still really powerful if you know what to do. 01:58:20.51 Nina Yeah, and like I loved finding like the manuals that you see in the games of like this is what it can do if you push these buttons and do these things it will do this I'm like this is a very specific magical item. 01:58:24.70 Dave Yeah, so so. 01:58:31.19 Dave Yeah, it's it's it is. It's very like it looks like old technology too. It's like you have to rotate this and then like this symbol is showing and then you have to pull the lever and then you have to say an incantation like it's cool. Yeah. 01:58:46.10 Nina Yeah I like the idea that people are like on trial and they're like hold on let me push the buttons first. 01:58:50.43 Dave Good stuff. 01:58:55.58 Dave Yeah, yeah, yeah, not so fast. Can you just hold on a second link? I rotated it too much. I got to give it around 1 more time. Yeah ah, cool. Well that was the case of the golden idol. 01:59:00.24 Nina Um, yeah. 01:59:09.90 Dave That was a good time. I had fun running through those cases talking about the story and about our various difficulties with some of those cases. Nina, thank you so much for taking 2 hours of your time to come on the show and talk about this game with me. 01:59:21.37 Nina Thank you, I had such a good time. This is one of my favorite games. I'm so glad that someone else has played it and we could talk about it. 01:59:27.36 Dave Yeah, of course and again looking forward to the sequel and you've got an open invitation anytime you want to come back on the podcast. This has been great. So yeah, thank you again and. Everybody who's listening. Thank you as always for sticking it out to the end you played the game and listened to the spoiler section or if you didn't play it and you don't care about spoilers more power to you but thank you for listening all the way through one more plug for everyone to go down in the show notes. Check out Twitch and Youtube and other social media for nina go check out what she's doing and I don't know my brain just went empty. That is all tune in next week for the next game to come out of the backlog.