Colin Wynn Good morning Greg, how are you today? Greg Wildman Morning, I'm great thanks Colin, how are you? Colin Wynn I'm very well thank you, welcome to Moving Matters. Greg Wildman Thank you. Colin Wynn Can you tell everyone a little about yourself and the length of time in this industry? Greg Wildman Yeah, I was born in Wimbledon in the early 70s. And just this year, my dad has passed away at the age of 92, and mums now down living in Bournemouth, and I went to see her this week, and we were talking about the sort of the career that I've had and different things I've done. And mum reminded me of the time that I walked through the door and told her that I'd got a job as a paper boy and I was 13 years old. And the reason that came about was because I was round a mates house and he had this wonderful Sega machine, and I said to him, how can you afford one of these? And he said, it's easy, I've saved up my paper round money, and bought one. So I thought, right, I'm gonna have a bit of that action and started going out and working, albeit just for an hour a morning or 45 minutes, whatever it was, and that really got me going into the world of work. Greg Wildman From there, I sort of went out on the mobile greengrocer van that used to deliver vegetables to Mum, you know, way before Ocado thought of it. And, you know, just watching these sort of smaller entrepreneurs building their business and selling to their customers was a real eye opener for me. And I found it very interesting. As I said, I was born in Wimbledon. As such, I'm a massive AFC Wimbledon fan season ticket holder. And my third job was at the Co-op and I actually left the Co-op when I was 15. Because I needed Saturday off to go and watch Wimbledon in the FA Cup Semi Finals, playing Luton and the manager wouldn't give it to me. So I said right, I'm leaving. So, exited the Co-op. And when I was 16, my parents dropped really what was a bit of a bombshell on me in that they were retiring and moving down to Wimborne in Dorset. And, and that summer after just doing my GCSE's, I worked at a travel agency in Putney. And I was cycling from my home, just past Wimbledon Common to Putney every day and working in travel agents. And, and that too, was a really good sort of early indication of how you get on in business. I can remember John Challis walking in one day, and, John Challis was Boycie in Only Fools and Horses. He wanted to he wanted to buy a couple of tickets to go to Spain for him and his wife. And I can remember the owner of the travel agent saying to him, you know, please can you ask for them in the voice of Boycie. And so you've got John Challis in this little travel agents, saying, Can I have two one way tickets to Spain, please? Colin Wynn Awesome. Greg Wildman That was great. And you know, in the evening, I was teaching tennis. At the end of that summer, I moved down to Poole, well Wimborne and started off at college doing my A-levels. And I think the sort of early work grounding that I'd had, you know, by the age of 16, I'd already had three, three or four part time jobs, you know, it just seemed natural to go out and work and at college I was looking for a job and ended up in Holland and Barrett which is for health food people on a Saturday, they didn't like the fact that I was walking through the store with a Burger King on Saturday lunchtime, inducive to what they were trying to do. And to be honest, it wasn't really my my cup of tea. And so I then joined Russell and Bromley which formed part of my later career that I'll speak about in a moment. Colin Wynn Hold on a minute, let me go back to something. This was a job at Holland and Barrett on a Saturday. What about your beloved AFC Wimbledon? Greg Wildman Well, this was part of the point, Wimbledon was still just at Plough Lane, it was very difficult for me to see Wimbledon because I actually stayed at the travel agents and did a few weeks in that sort of first term of A-levels. So I did get the opportunity to go back and see them but it was sort of the beginning of a period where I didn't really see much of Wimbledon, one of the problems of moving down. And the actual fact, I was living with my Aunt at the time because mum and dad hadn't sold the house back in Wimbledon. And so it was very much case of doing A-levels and getting on the train on Friday, going back working the travel agents, and you know, trying to make the best of what was a pretty difficult situation. But mum and dad finally moved down in January of 1990. And I started looking around for a different job because Holland and Barrett and healthfood, clearly wasn't my sort of scene, and got this job and Russell and Bromley and really, you know, enjoyed that, taught me a lot about traditional companies and providing good service and selling etc. And I did that throughout my A-levels, and then went off to University, and at University I did a degree in town planning. I thought that would be something that I was interested in with economic development, didn't have a job really at University until I came back in the summer. And in the summer of the after the first year of University, which was in Coventry, I decided because my girlfriend was working there, that I would get a job in McDonald's. Greg Wildman And it was in McDonald's where I met my new boss, who was Mr Doman, Peter Doman, who works at Basil Fry now. And that was quite an interesting story, because Pete being Pete, decided that it would be quite a good idea to run a tennis ladder in the summer thinking he was the best tennis player in the store, which of course he was, because he had started the ladder before I turned up. And on this break one day, I was told by Pete, that you know, well, as you're a crew member of McDonald's, you're going to have to join the tennis ladder. So I said, Right, okay. And so I joined the tennis ladder. And he said, right, I'll play you first. So off, we went to the tennis courts in Bournemouth, didn't really know the guy seemed to be getting on quite well. Yeah, I beat him. And I think that was, you know, a quite a sort of monumental part of our early friendship, the tennis ladder disappeared, all the prize money went, it's still a mystery to me what he spent it on, allsorts of accusations I could make. Colin Wynn Do you bring this up often with him? Greg Wildman No, probably a couple of times a week, it's only 30 years ago. Greg Wildman So, Pete, I kinda I left University and then went to America to teach tennis for a bit, came back from America, Pete was building his career in McDonald's, and I came back from America didn't really have a clue what to do. Because part of my degree, I'd worked for Dorset county council for a whole year, and just was of the opinion wasn't somewhere that I wanted to work I tend to be a character who likes quick results. And planning. You know, if you want quick results, and you know, you really in the wrong job, it takes years for stuff to go through, as I'm sure you're aware. So I arrived back to a recession from America in 1995. And mum said to me, you know, what are you gonna do? I said, Well, I don't know, I'm going to take whatever job I can get. And I got a job actually that day, working for an IT hardware supplier. And now at the time it was, the idea was that network managers could run several different PCs from one screen using a network switch. And my job was to cold call companies and book, the salesman to go in. And you know, after four or five months, I'd really, I'd really had enough. I was living at home, which was great, always and still do have a wonderful relationship with my parents and had a wonderful childhood, but at the age of 22, when you're sort of had all that independence and travelling in America and everything, you know, you really, really want to you really want to move on. Greg Wildman So I then began to reflect I knew that I wasn't good enough at tennis to become a full time tennis coach, really. So I looked back through my CV and, and then thought about Russell and Bromley, and wrote to Russell and Bromley and said, look, you know, do you have a management scheme that I can go on? And they said, Well, yes, we do. I used to work for you as a Saturday boy, they looked at my sales records because they were all individually kept and said, okay, you know, I had three interviews and started off in Salisbury in their store in Sailsbury, went to Manchester, Chester, Kingston, Bromley and then my first store was Leytonstone, which asked me to close down said, you know, you won't make any money, but you got to close the store in two months, we ended up 200% up on on target. My first store, ironically, was Bournemouth, so I was back at home, ran Bournemouth for year and a half and doubled the turnover in there. Edinburgh was a store where they had a an issue, and I went up there and clean, clean that up and then went to Chelsea, and did very well there. And while I was at Chelsea, you know, I realised I was making very quick progression through Russell and Bromley but the top jobs in the organisation were held by people who weren't really going to be going anywhere, you know, Russell and Bromley is a family owned company, and still is. And I realised, you know that whilst I might make area management, there wasn't probably wasn't going to be much more above that because the owners of the company were running themselves. Greg Wildman And one day, Philip rang me up and said, look, I'm, I'm coming up to London going to see a client, you want to meet for some lunch? So I said, yeah, okay. And we went out for a Chinese and once we're in a Chinese, he said, look, mum's been talking to me about your career, you know, really wanted you to go out and have a have a career first, but you know, we're really interested in having you at Basil Fry, we think, you know that there are various skills that you have, that we don't have, and we think it would be good to have you on board. So I went off for an interview with Chris Fry. And it was a big decision at the time because A because I had to take a pay cut and B because I was just getting married. I'd met my wife Helen while working in Bournemouth, proposed to her up Edinburgh Castle in Edinburgh, which was quite an interesting story in itself because as I went down on one knee, this American tourist shouted across the top of the castle Marvin he's proposing to her, put me off my stride a little bit. Yeah, it was a big decision. I had to give three months notice to Russell and Bromley but you know I'd thought about it long and hard spoke to Helen in some depth, and just came to the conclusion that this was this was a step that I wanted to take. Greg Wildman And so I joined in 2001 the day before 9/11. So on the day of 9/11 Philip and I were out seeing a client and you know, I didn't really you know, not know really what was going to happen in the meeting and had no experience of the insurance industry really at all I was just said to listen and learn. And whilst we were going over to see the client that we heard on the radio about what what happened. Greg Wildman Yeah, and on my first day at Basil Fry I can remember Chris Thorpe saying to me, as I was leaving after my first day, it's bit harder than selling shoes isn't it Mr Wildman Jr. and I reflected on that, you know, came to the conclusion that, you know, all businesses are service related. Every business has, you know, its fundamental reasoning for being there, you know, whether you're a remover or you work in your area of work, or you're an insurance broker. And so I just came to conclusion it was it was slightly different. I was very grateful. And always remember that my first piece of business, which was early in 2002, when John Panton from Britannia Smeeton Panton gave me his fleet to look after and that was a really proud moment for me. Greg Wildman And I went from there to take over recruitment in 2004 because Basil Fry had 14 staff at the time, and I've been running a store in Chelsea that had 50 staff and you know, we were we were hiring and firing all the time. Now, we kind of had, one eye on the future all the time we knew that Chris Fry and Chris Thorpe would want to retire at some point. And so Philip and I really went about trying to recruit the right people who would take us forward. You know, post Chris Fry and Chris Thorpe's retirement which eventually happened in 2007. Prior to that, Ria Houston who was Compton at the time, but is Houston now joined us in 2005. And going back to Pete, Pete had gone up to a sort of area consultancy position with McDonald's. And send me his CV in 2007, just as we were purchasing the business saying, you know that he wants to get into banking or insurance. And I just looked at his CV and knowing the character that he was our sort of friendship had developed to the point where I was his best man at his wedding. And he was he was one of my best men at my wedding, I knew he would be perfect for us. So Pete joined in 2007. Adam Kellaway had joined us in 2006, and actually has done two stints with the company left in 2012. And rejoined in 2016. And then later on, we took on our FD, and the lady who runs our claims handling arm Amy, who's our claims director in 2014. So we, you know, our purpose pre 2007 was really to get a team together that would allow us to look to the future and each one of these individuals, sometimes I think of us as a sort of what my mum would refer to as a pizza wheel from Trivial Pursuit, you know, with the little pegs that go into the round piece, you know, everyone brings something different to, to the table as it were, you know, Ria is our operations director is very well organised and structured. I always thought I was, you know, a very competent networker until I saw Pete in action. And you know, he can move around the room really quickly and speak to people very efficiently. Adam has got a very strong technical bent to what he does, he has a first class honours degree in insurance. And is a chartered insurance broker and so he brings us on a technical angle, Sue is our finance director, and Amy is our claims director. And you know, everyone has a purpose, purposely built in this way from the beginning, everyone has a purpose to fulfil a sort of total service that we give to our client. Colin Wynn So did any of you have to do any training regarding this because as Chris said to you, it's a bit different from selling shoes and selling insurance. But, there's a lot to sell in insurance? Greg Wildman Yeah, there is. And, you know, the Basil Fry way has always been to train people on the job. In the early days, though, there's, there's been a lot of talk within your podcasts about conferences. And you know, this was sort of Holy Grail for me, I would love to get to a conference. I joined the company in 2001 I didn't get to a conference until 2005 You know, there was a lot of grounding and training done. But you know, it was pretty clear early on and this I don't think it's a bias thing to say because he's my brother. But it was pretty clear early on that I probably had the best teacher the most competent and complete insurance broker to the removals industry as my teacher in Philip and I know I was working directly for him. And so the training was really enjoyable and sort of later on and when we knew that we were going to be purchasing the company, it becomes almost more fulfilling then because you know, that you're contributing to your future, hopefully your future success. Greg Wildman Yeah, there's training, all the board members have relevant qualifications to be on the board, don't have to have but we all do. And so yeah, the training part of it is vital really and all of us spent you know a good couple of years learning really about two industries especially you know, myself and Pete, firstly learning about the removals industry and then applying the insurance over the top and how it all links in, and you know, anyone who says they don't learn on their job every day I think is wrong, you know, we're learning all the time aren't we. Greg Wildman So that was a sort of a brief plotted history of how I arrived at Basil Fry. Colin Wynn So Basil Fry, can you tell everybody about Basil Fry and the services it offers? Greg Wildman We're insurance consultants to the removals and self storage industries. Our real jewel in the crown is removal claim services, which is, as I said before, run by Amy, which provides claims handling for goods in transit policies on an authority given by insurers, and also assists companies with motor and liability and public liability claims. So that, in a nutshell, is what we do, however, and I'm sure you will accept this, as supplies to the industry, you get called on all the time to provide services that you don't actually provide. Which, you know, I may have mentioned to you before, I received a call from one of my clients once saying, right, you, you've bought a few Audi's in your time. So I said yes, I've bought three. He said, right. Well, you're a better negotiator than I am because you negotiate all the time. Yes, maybe. So he gave me the spec of this Audi Q3 that he wanted his parents to, parents wants to buy rather. And said I've got this price of £22,670, or whatever it was, see if you can do any better, and literally dispatched me to my local Audi dealer. And, you know, I thought, driving down there, I thought actually why am I doing this, I don't know why I'm, I don't know why I'm involved with it, but I am. And I guess, you know, you do it through wanting to provide a complete a service to your clients as possible. And, and of course, it helped form that bond doesn't it. And so Audi was purchased for 21 and a half thousand pounds, and client is very happy. Um, so we did you know we do all sorts of things, people ring us up, ask us, you know, if anyone's got seven and a half tonner with a particular spec, I get calls quite often from, you know, the entrepreneurial, the entrepreneurs in the, in the industry asking us if, if we know of any businesses that are for sale. And now, it's all part and parcel of providing a service to your client. Colin Wynn But that's probably because you're like myself, you're more involved within your clients business, than most people realise. Although I've supplied obviously software, the amount of questions I get, I have to literally cover my backside, on insurance, on liability, on you know, what the BAR is doing at the moment, the terms and conditions and that just people often find it easier to come and ask you then go and ask their insurance broker or that they're um... Greg Wildman Yeah. You become an expert in all sorts of different fields. However, I can reassure you that I'm definitely not going to become an expert in your field, because computers and me are not happy marriage. Colin Wynn Oh behave. I tell you what, Greg, I'll teach you computers. You teach me tennis. Greg Wildman But it's been quite a few years, I think Pete's quite pleased, because he's kept up with his tennis, and he claims now that he would beat me, but I haven't played for 20 years. I think he Colin Wynn I don't think you'd ever lose it, though. Greg Wildman No. Well, it's one of those sports. You know, as soon as you pick the racket up and take a few hits, you're back in the zone again. Although I'm sure Pete has continued to have lessons, I'm sure one day, he's going to get me back out on the tennis court. So long as it's not with his daughter, Scarlett, I don't mind because she's very, very competent Hampshire tennis player. Colin Wynn Isn't she just. Colin Wynn So, what are the main differences between liability cover and insurance cover, and what is your guesstimate of the percentage between the two within the industry? Greg Wildman Okay, well, it's quite quick answer, this one. Liability is a contractual arrangement between the remover and the client, with an insurance policy sitting in the background that the client doesn't have sight of, effectively, they only see, they only receive the benefit of if there's an issue and if the removal wants to make a claim against it. With insurance cover it's a benefit of an open cover with the client purchasing the right effectively to make a claim from the remover. And they receive a summary of insurance and they have the ability to make complaints to the necessary organisations that are involved in the chain. So that's, that's the principal difference. The end result of course, is if you scratch Mrs. Smith's dining table, then Mrs. Smith dining table will get fixed, whether you are a liability or whether you offer insurance cover. Colin Wynn And what would you say is the split in the industry at the moment, what's the percentage wise of maybe your clients that are liability over insured? Greg Wildman We have roughly 1500 removers on our books. I would say that the split is probably 70/30 in favour of providing insurance cover. 30% will be on standard liability and 70% on deregulated insurance arrangements. Colin Wynn Wow, that surprises me because I thought it might have been the other way around. So that's a good one to note. Thank you for that. Greg Wildman Yeah, I think, you know, it's been it's been a period of confusion, really, in a way. Because in 2005, actually, the day that Ria joined our business, the FSA, regulated the sale of insurance, and as part of that removers were, were caught up with it and sort of everyone, well all of Basil Fry's clients anyway, went over onto the standard liability solution. And it was only a few years later, when it was it was deemed that there was a deregulated position that could be taken up by removers, that removers started to move the other way. And you've got to remember that at around that time, 2008/2009, we had a recession. And our advice, back in 2004, in preparation for this was well we, you know, we understand you're going to lose an insurance revenue. So instead of charging 500 pounds for your move, build the insurance revenue in to the job and start charging 550. But of course, the recession came along, and when the recession came along, there was competitive squeeze on prices and that insurance revenue, slowly disappeared. And so when the opportunity arose, for removers to sell insurance again, you know, quite quite few of them took it. Colin Wynn Yeah, and there's obviously the difference in liability and insurance as in insurance has got insurance premium tax at 12%, and liability has got VAT at 20%. So you could save your customer of a few quid there, I know it's only 8%, but it's still saving, and it's an extra revenue earner for the company. Greg Wildman It is, although I suspect with COVID and the amount of money that the government have spent, I saw a figure on the BBC News yesterday that was something like 800 billion, and that they'll be trying to claw some of that back, so I wouldn't be surprised to see a movement in IPT come the budget. Colin Wynn Yeah, I agree with that. Greg Wildman So when is the best time to change from being a company offering standard liability to offering an insurance solution? I know you say there's only like 30% of the companies on your books, but you know, if you are somebody at the moment that is liability, is there a time to change, or is it just a case of I want to charge for insurance now? Greg Wildman No, I think I think the inference there is that somehow an insurance solution is more of a professional way to go than offering standard liability. And, frankly, it isn't, both a perfectly adequate in providing the customer with indemnity. And there it should should be said at this point, there are some very large national removers who still work on standard liability solution. So there is no real correct answer for that, the liability solution allows the remover to maintain a great element of control over the insurance solution, the only benefit really with the insurance solution is it allows the remover to generate that additional revenue. Colin Wynn And what are the variety of ways of charging for cover, I see most charge a percentage of the removal or weekly storage, yet some are charging based on the valuation of the goods, can a remover charge a fixed fee at all? Greg Wildman Yeah, remover can charge a fixed fee. In fact, one of the one of the pieces of guidance that I give to clients just starting off even on a smaller end is that if they want to go down the deregulated route, they could take a view of charging a fixed price for insurance but principally, there are just two ways and that is as you say, percentage of the removal, most of charging sort of 10 or 12% or as a percentage of the exposed risk. So taking the customers declared value and applying a sort of two or 3% percentage points rate against that declared value and charging that. But there's no, there's no real correct answer to it, it really depends on how the remover feels, and you know, after doing his or her due diligence in the geographical area to see who's doing what. Colin Wynn Maybe people are charging a percentage of the weekly rate or the percentage of the removal costs, because that's how they've done it over all the years, and it works, and it's a tried and tested solution, and you're doing the same as your competitors. Maybe that's why they just carry on doing it this way. Greg Wildman Yeah, I think, you know, what your competitors are doing, obviously, is a big consideration. And removers say to me all the time, you know, the customer looks at the quotation, and goes straight down to the bottom and sees what the price is at the bottom. And so, you know, I'm not sure whether insurance actually should be such consideration, the consideration should be how much is being charged and, you know, sell the removal based on the value that you're going to bring to that client. Colin Wynn Absolutely, it should always be based on the value of the service rather than anything else. Colin Wynn What one piece of advice would you give to removers regarding liability/insurance cover? Greg Wildman Well, given that we have our in house Claims Settlement authority, via removal claims service, one of the things that we come across, over and over again, is removers who have been engaged and carried out a removal and not obtained a signed acceptance form. If you don't obtain a signed acceptance for you are in a position where you haven't clarified properly the nature of your contract with your customer. So I say to all new customers, and quite a lot of our customers at renewal, please make sure you obtain a signed acceptance before you touch anything, it's vital. Colin Wynn Oh absolutely. It staggers me the amount of people that are still doing jobs where they still haven't got the acceptance back yet, like why? Greg Wildman Yeah. I mean, you know, even now, and again, you come across someone. So for example, piano movers, you know, we've got a couple of piano Movers. And they always make the point, well, you know, we might be in Cambridge. And we might get called from someone saying, Can we go and pick up a piano in Oxford? And you know, even for those guys, the way round it, you know, the advice that I give them is look, carry quotation acceptance forms on your van, give your customer time to read through the terms and conditions, whilst you're getting prepared to move the piano and get a signature on a piece of paper, protection is there but only triggered by virtue of the fact that customers sign the contract? So it causes all sorts of issues where we don't have them. Colin Wynn So as you're also doing the removal claims services, have you had any funny claims? You must have had an awful lot of dodgy claims coming in, or... Greg Wildman Oh, oh, I've got we've got we've got loads. Yeah, of examples. And, and continue to get them all the time. And we've had some pretty high profile claims, right down to customer who I went see in Dorset a couple years ago who received a claim form for half a bag of pasta gone missing. Greg Wildman But Chris Thorpe, who used to run removal claims service, while up until he retired in 2007. Used to deal with these claims in, you know, in a really good way. And was, you know, quite hard on members of the public when they came in with spurious claims. And remember, this was an unregulated activity prior to 2005. So you could probably get away with a bit more than you could get away with now, but I can remember him telling me a story about him not being happy with one particular claim, so he settled it in stamps. Greg Wildman You know, we get we get spurious claims all the time. It's and it's the skill of the adjusters down in removal claim service, who have decades of experience, and David Pite has been doing this job, since I believe and hoping I won't be wrong 1986, Jo and Emma who used to work for Bob Tree of Willis have been doing the job 20/25 years, we've got another experienced adjuster who previously worked in home insurance claims. It's their job to, to interpret the terms and conditions of contract correctly, and to spot when they're having the wool pulled over their eyes, and they're very, very, very competent. Colin Wynn I take it that only comes really with proper experience over the years? Greg Wildman Yes, quite, quite right. Colin Wynn So what challenges have you had to overcome then Greg? Greg Wildman Quite a few, I think in 20 years. Purchasing the company, under sort of as Philips, sort of second in command, Philip, headed up the management buyout in 2007. And I was made a director at that time, that was a really a mixture of an opportunity and a real challenge. But it became clear very quickly that it was actually going to be a massive challenge, because we purchased the business and then went around the corner of 2007 into that really vicious recession, which kind of kind of had an idea that something was wrong, because as insurance brokers to the removals industry, you start, you start, you're sort of one step ahead of the economy, you know, you know that things are getting bad because you start seeing removers turnovers going down a bit, you start noticing that last year, they had 10 vehicles and now they've only got nine, or the manual wage roll is decreased, which is a trigger for the employers liability policy. And so we kind of had an idea. And then I was down at Maidman's, seeing Brian, and I can remember walking into his office. And he him saying to me, look, I've been for a meeting, breakfast meeting this morning at the bank, and we're going to have a very, very nasty recession. He said, so for goodness sake, pay everything off in your private life, batten down the hatches, get ready, because it's going to be it's going to be pretty brutal. And he was of course, right. So that was a real challenge for us. We started, you know, I can remember talking to Philip about it, and we just hired Pete and Philip was of the opinion that to successfully fight the recession, you needed, you know, we needed to beef up our army, as it were, and, you know, get some more account executives on board and, you know, go to more BAR meetings than we had been, and, and that's what we did. That's how we fought it. But that was, that was a real challenge. And, you know, what I alluded to earlier, that sort of planning for the future and spotting talent and trying to understand how they're going to fit into your business in 10 years time, that was a real challenge as well, because, you know, I knew in 2007, that I was probably going to be purchasing the business in 2017. Because philip had sort of pre warned me said, Look, you know, we buying it together, now, or he was heading it up. And in about 10 years time, it's gonna be your turn. So, you know, start making preparations for that it might feel like we're some way off. But you know, you've got to get people up to the necessary level of skill and, and ambition and, you know, being in the right place, to to assist you in, in running the business in 2017. And so that's what we that's what we started concentrating on. And, you know, I'm really proud of, of the way we built that team. Because as I said to you earlier, you know, we I don't view that I run this business by myself, we're very much, it's very much a team effort, the board of directors are an inclusive bunch. And, you know, when I look at what's going to happen in the future, I'm really happy with the staff that we've taken on over the last five years because, you know, we've got considerable amount of talent coming through the business. So that has really been a challenge. Obviously, you hire, you hire people, and they disappoint you, or we disappoint them, you know, and and the relationship doesn't continue. So it's really difficult to know who's going to stick who's going to stick around to try and treat people as best you can. But that's that's been a real that's been a real challenge. Greg Wildman On a personal note, in 2010, my colon burst. So that was a big challenge. I'd done a big piece of business with a public limited company, who had just gotten into mobile Self Storage, literally on the Wednesday before my colon burst, and it burst on the sort of Friday/Saturday. And you know that that was the immediate challenge of that was obviously that was out of action for quite a while. But you know, even even at that time Pete had been around for three years, had worked in McDonald's training department, was a blue chip qualified trainer. And so he took up the training stuff with them whilst Philip, Philip ran the insurances. But that was a real challenge, obviously, being in a situation where you're on the verge of death, and seeing your wife, wife there, and you know, all the pressure that it put her under, with our children who at the time was seven and five, that that was a big, that was a big challenge in my life, and also one that I look back with, with it with a great deal of positivity, you know, I can remember being in hospital and three removers came to visit me while I was in hospital, and I, you know, thought at the time, how nice, how nice that was built up such good friendships with people, Philip came in with a puncture repair kit. Stuart Almandras came in with a potato, you know, all these people turning up thinking that they were, I thought, That's nice, they've come to visit me, actually, all they want to do is take the Mickey! Matthew Schofield sat on the edge of my bed and said I've come to shave you? Which I thought was a bit strange. But yeah. I had two operations as a result of that, and this was sort of out of action from the summer of 2010, broadly speaking to April 2011. That was that was a challenge for me. Greg Wildman And, and of course, there is an ongoing challenge, you know, from buying the business in 2017. And thinking about the things that I had thought about, you know, when Philip was the MD and thinking right, when I when I take over, I'm gonna try that. And then realising that Philip was right, on one or two occasions, you know, we've made a success of it. So, you know, it's been it's, it's, it's a challenge all the time. And, you know, I think everyone in business has continuous challenges. Colin Wynn Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. The great thing is though you have an awesome family behind you, and you have an awesome team in the company. Colin Wynn What is your high point of being in the industry? Greg Wildman Well, I think it was David Bunting, in your, in your podcast, he said, Well, I've written down five, five points, well I've, I've actually got six. Colin Wynn He's not going to like that, I'll have to get him back on! Greg Wildman When I joined in 2001, I was desperate to get out there and take on clients. And, you know, quite rightly had a period in the office where I had to learn but in 2003, I can remember getting my first big client who was spending a six figure sum and that was a real buzz, especially as I was out with Chris Fry at the time and the remover in question rang us while we were in the car, and informed me that, you know, that he wanted to proceed with us, he'd been with his previous insurance broker for 60 years, and he was actually a third or fourth generation mover, and so, you know, that was a real high point, you know, getting to a position where someone was trusting me to the extent that they would, that they would give me their insurances, you know, I've been in the business for a couple of years. That was a real high point. Greg Wildman Gaining the interest of other insurance brokerages and you know, people approaching me for to work for them was, has been a high point. Greg Wildman Becoming a director and building our building our team, you probably gather how passionate I am about our board of directors and the team we have here at Basil Fry, that that's been a continuing high point for me. But becoming a director in 2007. Was was was great, great high point, especially going into buying a business with my brother. That that it made made it feel slightly different. It was you know, fantastic. And it was a combination really, of many years of sort of training and listening to him and, and finally, sort of definitely being accepted, you know, accepted within the company. Greg Wildman Promoting people to the board who I have championed, you know, Pete and Ria, Amy, Adam and Sue, that's a great feeling. It's marvellous to see people getting on in their careers. And and, you know, really making a good go of it. Greg Wildman Becoming the MD would be number five. Greg Wildman And I suppose my final one would be the friends that have in the industry have provided me with many high points, you know, many laughs there's too really too many of them too many of them to mention, but you know, I have, I have a good deal of friends in South London, Stuart, Ian and Dell, and Simon from Britannia Beckwith, we socialise a lot together. And they provide me with high points. And you know, I've learned a lot from them. Because, you know, as I said earlier, to an extent, it doesn't matter what your main service offering is, we're all running businesses. And, you know, you learn, you learn from, well actually I can say this, you learn from your elders, because they are all older than me. You also learn from, you know, you learn from everybody learn from staff who are much younger, and just starting off, sometimes someone will say something they have thought that that's a good idea. So, yeah, so they would be my six. Colin Wynn The removal industry, it's so diverse, but it's so down to earth, it just, it does become an extension of your own family. Greg Wildman Oh very much. Yeah, Colin Wynn You know, there are some incredible people out there running successful removal companies. Greg Wildman Yeah. And, and the generosity of them as well, as I said, earlier, my father passed away in the summer. And speaking to a remover yesterday, who you've you've had on your podcast and he said look anything, any help you need, we'll have a lorry at the house and we'll help, anything you want just give me a ring. And I thought that's, you know, what a lovely thing to say. It's, it really is, you know, you feel like you're part of one massive family. It's, it's great. And, you know, our clients as well are our greatest advert. Colin Wynn Absolutely. Greg Wildman As I'm sure yours are. Colin Wynn Well we have many mutual clients. But yeah, every single one of them. Colin Wynn So what one thing would you change within the moving and insurance industry, so you can have one of each here if you want? Greg Wildman Well, you know, I think it's not going to come as a surprise to you with with the moving industry. You know, I think, with the people you've had on your podcast seem to sort of echo the same sort of thing, it's either public perception or some form of regulation being required. I think public perception is really one thing I'd like to see improve. Members of the public just simply do not understand what goes on and believe that it's an unskilled job. And clearly, I remember very early on after joining Basil Fry, trying to move a table around my house, and taking part of the wooden doorframe out with this table and damaging the table and thinking yeah, you know, how does any, how does anyone get a table of this size through that doorway? And, you know, you only have to watch the removals that you had done yourself, you only have to watch the level of skill to get something very large to a relatively small space. You know, what a skilled job it is. And I just wish the public would recognise it. But you know, I think some some, some probably do. Others don't. And it's it's deeply frustrating to me. Greg Wildman In insurance, I'll have a bit of a complain about the insurance here I think. Their service levels are very poor. And as a broker who's stuck in the middle, you know, I have quite a few conversations with removers, you know, we might be two weeks before renewal, I haven't got my terms yet, well, you know, we're waiting for an underwriter to just sign them off. They don't tend to move very quickly, and they don't tend to be that commercial, which is, which is strange, but there we are, I'd like to see them be a bit more proactive. Colin Wynn Where do you see both the moving and the insurance industry in the next five years? Greg Wildman Well, I'll start with the insurance industry, I think. I think the insurance industry becoming more and more internet based, I think we're in an industry in the moving industry where it is harder for them to accurately underwrite risk. And so I'm hopeful that we will be in a similar position as we are in in five years time, I don't see any any reason for us not to be. In the moving industry, of course, you kind of tend to look at the generation of people coming through. And you know, you look at the Young Movers Group that the British Association of Removers have set up and there's some, some really good, some really good characters in there, I'd like to say giants, Ciaran Mullarkey, and Calvin Tickner, are both over six foot five, there's some great people in the Young Movers Group, I can see that the moving industry and BAR is going to be in good hands. Colin Wynn And just so everybody knows, I do have the Young Movers Group Council on a future podcast, so watch this space. Greg Wildman Is there going to be any alcohol there? Colin Wynn Might give them some Babysham. Greg Wildman That'd be interesting. Colin Wynn So what do you do outside of the industry to switch off? Greg Wildman Well, I think it's difficult to switch off, I think, you know, as a business owner, you're always keeping half an eye on things, and any time of course, the phone could go with someone who's having a difficult problem that they need some urgent advice with. So, but generally, I go to see AFC Wimbledon when I can with my eldest son. And I have one or two hobbies. I like collecting watches. Which, funnily enough, I do with a couple of my removal friends, we look at watches and go out together and go to secondhand fairs, etc. Colin Wynn So did I many watches do you have Greg? Greg Wildman Hmmm, not many. Greg Wildman About 20. I'd say. Colin Wynn But you've only got one wrist, well two wrists obviously, but you generally only wear them on the one wrist. Greg Wildman You do. You do indeed. But I know we were talking about Apple Watches earlier, it's admittedly a very useful tool. But I don't own one of those, because... Colin Wynn They are, okay, I must admit, I generally, I've got mine on now, and I generally wear it during the day, but if I'm going out somewhere for like a nice meal in an evening or whatever, I generally don't wear it, I put my watch on. Greg Wildman Yeah, that's, that's good. One of my co directors wears an apple watch with Mickey Mouse hands on it. Colin Wynn Yeah well, that's quite good. Greg Wildman Yeah. Greg Wildman Yeah. So I do that with Stuart and Simon Yeah, we're into our watches, and socialising with clients, mainly, to be honest. But as you said earlier, you know, you become part of people's families, and they become part of your family. So, you know, I've been on holiday with removers in the past. And yeah, most of my social life is taken up with with seing them, catching up with movers, hearing their stories, and it helps me to, I mean, it really helps in the business as well, because it helps you think about, you know, how you're going to address those issues or overcome those problems. Colin Wynn Talking of holidays, I heard you went on a successful Safari with some of your removal clients. Greg Wildman I did back in 2008, and it was really back in 2008, and I'd worked for Specialised before then, but it was it really was in 2008 in South Africa, where, you know, I sort of cemented my friendship with Nigel and Carol. And yeah, there's many funny stories about that holiday. But yeah, so it's really well I met him first and you know, spending so much time with him and Stuart and Jules were there as well, you know, I learned quite a bit, different things about them and what they've been up to with their careers and done and you know, I suppose. Yeah, we have a good laugh, Let's leave it at that. Colin Wynn It's another fascinating aspect about the industry because you don't just get to know about the boss of the company, you get to know about their family as well. Like I said, it's just an extension. And, yeah, they're their clients at the end of the day, their clients, but they also become good friends, and you get to know a lot about them, they get to know a lot about you. Greg Wildman Yeah, and it is obviously important to remember they're clients as well. Colin Wynn Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Greg Wildman It's a difficult line, sometimes. Colin Wynn And finally, I like to end my podcasts with a funny moving story. Now, I know you're in insurance, but do you have one or more to tell? Greg Wildman I do have a funny moving story, I guess at this point, it's not the correct time to talk about Peter walking into a glass revolving door at the Movers and Storers show in 2008, and ending up in the bar with a bloody nose. So I won't mention that on your podcast. Colin Wynn I'll remove that, don't worry Greg, we'll keep that between you and I, I'll delete it later. Greg Wildman Yeah, I can remember Ria, she was still crying about that about 10 minutes later, and still laughs about it today. Greg Wildman Yeah, no, I do have a funny story. And it revolves around my own move in 2005. And I thought at the time when I'm going to get someone who I've worked for two years at least to do my house move for me. So I had developed and still am good friends with this remover, who's based in Essex, and always have good levels of banter between us. And so I said to him, look, can you do the move? And he said, Yeah, I'd love to. What does it involve? So we, we had a discussion about that. He said, right, it's going to be a two day move. Day one, I'll come down. And I'll do all the packing for you. And you can chat to me while I'm packing. Make me tea, stuff like that. So I said right Okay, that's fine. We'll do that. So he came down, and I sort of stood there watching, you know, the, the skill involved in packing stuff like the crystal and china bits that we had. And that evening, we went to the pub, had a bit of dinner. And the bill came and he pushed the bill my way. And I said, No, no, no, no. I'm your customer tonight, I'm your customer. You're paying the food bill not me, anyway that wasn't the funny story. So we arrived at the we arrived at the property that we're moving into the next morning, and we're walking up the driveway. And he said, Oh look, Mr. Wildman, it seems like Mr. Fox has left you are moving in present. And so there it was, some Fox mess in the front garden on the lawn. And I said well, you know, obviously, that's got nothing to do with me. That's your job. You've got to remove the fox mess. You know, I don't get involved with that. So you know, move superb, everything, yeah, three guys, went like a dream. About three o'clock in the afternoon. My wife, Helen, Greg, Greg, something on the carpet downstairs. So I walked downstairs into the lounge and there's a sort of mess on the on the beige carpet in the lounge. So I did what I had to do and established that it was Fox mess. And I called my client, let's just call him Matthew. And you know, you've got someone has trodden Fox mess into the beige carpet in the lounge. And he said, Well, I told you to clear the present that Mr. Fox had left for you. And I said Well, you know, I said to you, that's not my job. That's your job. So he said right. Okay. Well, we'll find out who the perpetrator is. So he lined his guys up in the hall. And he says right guys lift your shoes up. They all lifted their shoes up nothing there. And he said right Mr. Wildman lift your shoe up. Let's have a look at it, in a way that only he can. And so I lifted my shoes up and of course there was nothing there. And I said well given that we're now in this situation everyone else has had their shoes inspected. It only seems to be fair that you have yours inspected now. So he lifted his shoe up and there it was nestling between the treads on shoe. So I said, Well, look, you know, this is you know, we're moving into a house. You know, you've got to clean it up. No, no worries, I'll deal with it. And much to the mirth of some of his staff, I'll deal with it. So he set about cleaning the carpet. So I thought, right, the opportunity for banter here is just to just to good. So he called me after about 20 minutes. He said, right, I've cleaned it up, you can't see it at all, I said, no, what we have got left here, though, is a beige carpet that has been worn with a square in the middle of it. That is really clean. I mean, it's just not it's not, it's not good. You know, we can't put anything over that. It's in the centre of the lounge. What are we going to do? I said, I'm gonna have to think about putting in a public liability claim against you. Because the whole the whole carpet is going to be going to have to be cleaned. And I sort of, I walked off because I thought this is this is a good opportunity here. I said, I'll let you know in about 20 minutes. So have a think about it, went off and did something else. And 20 minutes later, he came back and he said, Have you decided what you're going to do with it with the carpet yet? You know, you're gonna you're gonna make a claim against us. So I said, No, I'm not. And he said Oh right. Okay. What What changed your mind? I said, well, the carpet fitters are coming in the morning and they're gonna change your carpet. Greg Wildman He wasn't happy. He wasn't happy, but... Colin Wynn That is so evil. Greg Wildman I did think about whether I was gonna tell that story, obviously, I haven't told you who it was, but what with Mr. Bullock talking about vibrators I thought I was on easy ground there. Colin Wynn Well only Paul would talk about that subject, no one's gone near it since. Colin Wynn Greg, I appreciate your time today. Thank you so much for joining me on this episode of moving matters. Thank you very, very much for your time. Greg Wildman No, it's been great. Thanks, Colin, really appreciate it. Transcribed by https://otter.ai