Colin Wynn Good afternoon, Paul, how are you? Welcome to moving matters. Paul Bullock Good afternoon, Colin. I'm very well. Thank you albeit a little hot. But thank you for inviting me. Colin Wynn My pleasure. My absolute pleasure. Can you tell everyone a little about yourself and the length of time in this industry? Paul Bullock Well, I knew that question was coming up. So I've actually been researching this and I was astonished to find out I've actually been supplying this industry with plastic crates for over 40 years. I started with a company called Crates International in 1977. That was a firm that was set up by my father and one of his business contacts a chap called Jim Clugston. And Jim Clugston, was actually the guy that spotted these types of crates in use in Swedish supermarkets. He had contacts in the removal industry over here, bought some over here they were made of fiberboard in those days and hence from that literally an industry was born. It was quite remarkable, really. So yeah, I have customers today that were my customers back then back in the 70s. Obviously back then I was dealing with their parents. Nowadays I'm dealing with their sons and daughters. But yeah, there are some customers that I have that long a relationship with, which is quite remarkable. Colin Wynn Very remarkable Paul considering you don't look a day over 40. So how did you get started in the industry? Colin Wynn So how did you get started in the industry? Paul Bullock Again, as I said, I was actually when I left school, I was selling cars. I was selling Renault cars, and I was actually quite good at it. But I lost my job and a friend of mine called Ken and I wondered what we were going to do and the only thing we could think of doing to earn a buck was we hired a little white van and we started doing removals. So again, I might be responsible for the start of the dreaded Man and van removals. But, you know, yeah, we did that for a while. And then as I said, this opportunity came up to work with me Dad at Crates International. And yeah, that's obviously that's what I've done ever since. Colin Wynn So Crates International started over 40 years ago. Paul Bullock Yep. Colin Wynn And you sold Crates International? Paul Bullock We were bought out. There was only one other competitor around at that time. That was a firm called Rentacrate and they bought us out. And I was supposed to go and work there then but it never happened. They just bought us and shut everything down. Just got rid of us. Colin Wynn So where did you go then? Paul Bullock From there I actually went off to Giltspur Bullens because they had a little removal company of their own called GB Crate Hire. So I went off to work for Giltspur Bullens where I met some wonderful people. But I was running their arm called GB Crate Hire and yet we built that and built that up until eventually of course Giltspur Bullens and GB Crate Hire got bought by Pickfords and it all became part of Pickfords. Colin Wynn And where do you work now? Paul Bullock I now work at PHS Teacrate. Colin Wynn PHS Teacrate obviously supply crates, but I believe packaging too. How did PHS Teacrate come about? Paul Bullock PHS Teacrate again is quite a remarkable story because it goes back to the Rentacrate days because in the days when Rentacrate bought Crates International it was run by a chap called Gordon McGuigan. Eventually, Gordon McGuigan left Rentacrate and he set up the company Teacrate So, it's all very strange. It's all very interconnected, of course. I mean, the McGuigan's are no they've retired they're no longer part of Teacrate. It's now wholly owned by PHS, but you know it has quite a long and distinguished history. I went from Rentacrate, I went off to setup another company of my own called Quick Crates with a parent company called OCS and eventually Teacrate what it became it bought Rentacrate which was suffering from some financial troubles at the time. And it also bought OCS Quick Crates at the same time. And that's how it kinda like the industry, sort of, you know, came together. Colin Wynn And your role at PHS Teacrate is? Paul Bullock Key account manager. When I first got there for a few months, they didn't know what the hell to do with me. But they though, hang on a minute this chap knows some people let's make him Key Account Manager. We'll put him in charge of all our biggest accounts. And that's what I've been doing for 12-13 years now. Literally, my role has been to maintain and develop friendships, which I think I've done quite well. I think I'm quite good at being friendly with people. So, yeah, it's you know that that's it. That's it and, and obviously to bring on new business where I can so, which again is very useful because I'm quite a well known name in the industry if something goes on and somebody is looking for crates, I tend to be the person that gets the phone call so that that's quite nice too. Colin Wynn How has technology and barcodes changed crate rental? Paul Bullock That is a good question. The barcodes has actually made quite a lot of difference. The barcoding technology allows you to order crates from us which are delivered into a specific customer. We scan the barcodes as they are delivered in and we know which of your customers has had those particular barcode numbers delivered into them. That means when we go to do the collection again, we scan the crates out again. And the crates can automatically be allocated to that customer. There's No waiting around for allocations of crates or anything like that we know exactly who those crates belong to because they were scanned in and they were scanned out. One of the byproducts that we weren't expecting it's also slashed missing crates. On the standard crate, the main crate, the LC3 crate. The LC3B has literally halved losses. Now the reason for that is because a crate could come back from somebody else. If you've got a building where there's other people working in it as well. A crate can come back from them well we scan those crates and if one of those crates is yours, it gets allocated to you. Whereas in the past that crate, you would have thought Oh, it's just gone missing so that it's actually cut down on losses. We've also had some wonderful comments from some of the customers themselves. For example, you know, one of the famous colleges. Their estates manager up there was absolutely fed up with every time he had moves going on up there he was faced with costs of a couple of crates going missing. So he started having barcoded crates delivered in there. And he had the crates delivered in separately. So he'd have sort of, you know, 50 crates, go to the IT department 50 crates, go to the accounts department. And they were scanned in separately, so he knew which one have which crates. So again, at the end of the move, if there's two crates missing, we were able to tell him or show him which department they were missing from. He was able to go back to that department and say, You guys have lost two crates, you're going to pay for them. He was ecstatic because it meant he wasn't paying for them out of his budget anymore. But also the unexpected benefit of that was that he would go into the right department say you've got two crates missing. And they'd say, Oh, dear, how did that happen? Does anybody know anything about that? Nobody would say anything, obviously. But then the next day when they all turn up for work, oh, hey, presto, those two crates have turned up. And what had happened is that somebody has looked at those two crates and thought ooh that'll be useful in the shed, or ooh little Tommy's Lego will be nice and tidy in one of those crates, and they thought they hadn't thought anything of it. But now Oh, dear. They know exactly which department those crates went missing from and they turned up again. Now this has happened so many times. It's untrue. So the barcoding not only aids us in keeping crates under control, so there's not loads and loads of unallocated crates because we know exactly which customer they belong to. It's also reduce losses, which you know, is brilliant for everybody. From our point of view. We're not arguing with our customer about lost crates, they're not arguing with their customer about lost crates. It's an absolute Win win. It really is the barcoding has, it's a fairly simple thing. But it's been a fantastic thing for the industry. And the vast majority of the members of the Commercial Moving Group, who are the office and commercial movers use us and use barcoded crates. Several of them said to me, it's an absolute no brainer. So there you go. That's, you know, it really has been a very useful thing. Colin Wynn Do you barcode, anything else bar crates, do you barcode the cages or anything like that? Or is it just the crates because they often go wandering off home? Paul Bullock All the main crates are barcoded, and the cages are barcoded? And those in particular are high value items. You know, we barcoded, you know, as much stuff as we can, because it's been so successful. It really has. Colin Wynn So what challenges have you had to overcome? Paul Bullock Challenges, in my work life, there's been a couple of bouts of redundancy, but I'll be honest, in neither case did it last very long. In my personal life, I think the biggest challenge was my mother died when I was nine years old. That kind of affects you as a kid. The other one, the obvious one perhaps is going through secondary school with the surname Bullock. You know what kids are like. Colin Wynn No, I have no idea Paul, no idea whatsoever. Paul Bullock I think that's where my sense of humour came from. It was a matter of develop a sense of humour or die. Colin Wynn If you could change anything from the past, apart from your surname, what would it be? Paul Bullock Well, obviously my mum, you know, dying at nine years old. That's pretty that's pretty early. And you know, here I am. Now I'm married, been married for over 30 years to the same lovely woman. We've got two great kids. Family is very, very important to me because of what happened to me when I was younger. But obviously, if I could bring my mum back so she could meet her grandchildren, she'd love them to bits obviously. Colin Wynn What is your high point of being in the industry? Paul Bullock Well do you know what I've thoroughly enjoyed being part of this industry, I really have there some wonderful people in this industry. People that today I count not just as, as work colleagues, but as personal friends. And it has been a really good time. I've enjoyed close relationships with the British Association of Removers and quite a few people there. But I suppose my high point would be being asked to join the Removers Benevolent Association by the lovely Derek Payne who's sadly no longer with us. That to me, was really nice to be asked. He was aware of the fact that I went around to a lot of the area meetings and he literally just asked me, would I join the committee of the RBA. And would I represent the RBA at the meetings and that to me was really nice. It was a, it was a bit of recognition for the time that I've been around the industry. Colin Wynn Excellent. I do have some questions about the RBA. So I will come back to the RBA. Paul Bullock Okay Colin Wynn What one thing would you change in this moving industry? Paul Bullock Perception. Paul Bullock I've been a supplier to this industry for many, many years. And one thing throughout that has not changed and that is the the poor perception that the general public has of the moving industry. Some of that is brought about by the existence of the man and vans, but where it is professional like in the British Association of Removers, it is a highly skilled job, a highly skilled industry and I just wish there was more recognition for it. You know, it astonishes me particularly in the household market but you know, people will go along to do a quote to move a four bedroom house and the person there will expect to pay less probably than the telly in the corner costs and I just I just struggled. I've never understood that I've never have. Colin Wynn Because the poor removal guys are always at the end of the moving chain as such, isn't it? Paul Bullock I guess, I guess yeah Colin Wynn Quite happily pay 200 pounds an hour for the solicitor to push a pen but don't want to pay 200 pound for a day's removal. And yet the removal guys are moving their worldly possessions. Paul Bullock Exactly. I've never understood it. Colin Wynn As I've said before on a podcast it's like the guys play human Tetris with your worldly possessions. There's an awfully good skill and art packing that lorry, not that I've ever done a removal I can assure you, like you Paul, I know too many removal companies, so if I need a removal I've got phone numbers. Colin Wynn What advice would you give to a young Paul Bullock just starting out in this industry? Paul Bullock Well, this is actually quite relevant. I have done a lot of networking. I, you know, I found it very, very useful through the years to do networking to get to know people. And it has served me well. Now my son few years ago, three, four years ago went off to Copenhagen to do his master's degree. While he was out there, had a fantastic time, absolutely loves it out there decided to stay. He loves it so much he's decided to stay. So he said to me, what piece of advice could I give him to, you know, to build his life out there and I said, network, get out there and meet people. Along the way, you will meet some lovely people, you will meet some interesting people, you will meet some people who probably aren't very nice, but they may be useful in the future. So just network, get, you know, get to know as many people as you can, which he has done. He's 29 but he's already built up quite a useful network of people and it has helped him in his job, his job he does out there and he's even been able to help some of his friends. out there. So my advice is network. Now how that's going to translate to the future if BAR meetings all go over to zoom meetings and things like that. I'm really not too sure. Because there's nothing like actually meeting people and shaking hands with people. bumping elbows doesn't do it for me. But yeah, that's what I would say network. Colin Wynn Networking seems to be the most popular answer to that question. Colin Wynn So what do you do outside of this industry to switch off? Paul Bullock As I said, family is very important. And so I spend time with my family. My daughter still lives at home with us. She's 25 not showing any particular sign of going anywhere. But I'm not in a hurry for her to go. She's She's a lovely lady. She's a veterinary nurse and so she's doing a wonderful job. But so I like to spend time with family. I'm also a bit of a film buff. I love a good movie. I'm actually a member of the everyman cinemas, and we go along there and watch movies, in armchairs with glasses of wine and things like that and that's that's really nice. Colin Wynn And a face mask at the moment Paul Bullock And the face mask at the moment Yes. Which can be difficult when you're drinking wine but hey ho but one of the things that a lot of the industry doesn't know about me everybody thinks I'm an Arsenal supporter which I am Colin Wynn I thought you were Yeah, Paul Bullock Yeah, everybody thinks I'm an Arsenal supporter the simple reason for that is because football is a very very very popular sport. And when you're looking for common ground to pitch to talk to people about often football is that common ground Colin Wynn But hold on Paul, is this is this gonna be an exclusive? Are all the listeners gonna be like he supports Who? You're gonna upset everybody now and say you're a Tottenham fan aren't you? Paul Bullock Oh, no, no, I couldn't go that far. I have some Tottenham friends obviously who I take the mickey out of every now and again. Colin Wynn Yeah, sorry for that Bob Tree. Paul Bullock Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he's one of them. But, but yeah, no, I'm actually a rugby union fan. I support Wasps, rugby union team and have done for a long, long time. There are a few in the industry that know that and are also rugby union fans, but in the main people think I'm an Arsenal football fan, and they're okay. But they're not my world. Colin Wynn And do you go and watch the rugby? Paul Bullock I do, yeah, I do. I go out to Coventry and watch Wasps play. So yeah, I do that. And yeah, I think I love the sport and it's actually coming back to us this weekend. So I'm really excited about that and looking forward to seeing it. Colin Wynn So going back now to the RBA. Paul Bullock Yeah. Colin Wynn Can you tell everyone a little about the RBA? Paul Bullock Right? Well, there's a bit here I'm going to read out because it's important to get it right. The RBA is to provide assistance for necessitous persons including their spouses and their dependent children who are or have been employed continuously for a period of not less of two years by a current member of the British Association of Removers. So, that is what the RBA is, it is the the charity for the members of the BAR, it does quite a lot of work behind the scenes, we supply money to people in hardship and as you heard there if anybody that used to work for a current BAR member company, even if they retired 10 years ago, may be able to claim they may be a necessitous person. And that is the that is the criteria that we use. We paid out a lot of money to help with funeral expenses and things like that, you know, with with wives whose husbands have died on the on the job and you know, they've got no money to bury their their husbands. We've paid out that kind of thing. But it covers a whole gamut of things that the RBA is paid out for. And I'm very proud to be involved with it. As I said before, I really am I think it's a wonderful thing, my job is literally, as I said to keep the RBA at the in the head of discussions when I go to BAR meetings and things like that, very often at BAR meetings, they'll be talking about how much money they've got in the bank and I'll be sitting there or on zoom or whatever. And I'll caugh and say RBA, you know, the RBA survives. It has it has a fund, which it which it has invested. But of course, interest rates aren't particularly good at the moment. We can only use the interest that we get from the fund to make payouts. So we need income from the areas and from the conferences, which aren't happening at the moment. So you know, from our point of view, that is a bit of a worry that you know, we need funds coming in so that we can help people. So perhaps I could ask during this podcast if there's anybody out there who perhaps would have stuck 100 quid in in the RBA van at the conference. And because it wasn't there, you couldn't do it. If you wouldn't mind, please go online to the Removers Benevolent Association website and you can make a donation there. Or you can link to it through the BAR website. That would be wonderful. We really do need the money. Colin Wynn I will put links in the show notes to that. Can they actually go to the website and make a direct donation? Paul Bullock Yes, there is a page there for making a donation if you wish. Yes. Colin Wynn Okay. I will put a direct link to that donation page, and I will send 100 pounds to it personally. As soon as I finish this podcast, I will send 100 pounds across. Paul Bullock You are a wonderful human being Colin, I knew there was a reason I liked you. Colin Wynn And everybody else who's listening. Do your job. Colin Wynn So do you have one or two examples that you that you can sort of like explain how the RBA have helped people I know you mentioned funerals and things like that, but one of the other thing is I'll come back to the other question, actually, but yeah, if you've got a couple of examples, that would be nice. Paul Bullock Well, one of the one of the famous ones was the, the the poor chap who got killed at Pickfords. And we were able to help out his family, which they really needed at the time. You know, there's that kind of thing, but most of it is, is you know, we've had people stepping off a vehicle breaking an ankle, and they're off work for weeks and they need help to get through that period. It's, you know, it can be sort of more mundane things like that. It doesn't have to be monetary awards. I mean, one of my little favourites actually is a is a an old retired chap. And we were contacted by the company that he used to work for but there's still a BAR member his gas fire had broken, and he couldn't afford a new one. So we bought him a new gas fire. You know, it's it's things like that there are lots of things that we do that, you know, literally just simply to help people out. People can claim as I said before, necessitous is the word again claims, you can make a claim via the Removers Benevolent Association website, and the trustees will have a look at it. And if you're successful, you will get some kind of money back. Colin Wynn So if you wanted to make a claim, you do that directly through the website, you haven't got to go to your BAR company that you're employed by and get them to do it, you can just go directly to the website and make a claim that way? Paul Bullock It should come via the BAR member. Colin Wynn Okay. Colin Wynn My other question about the RBA would be that during the BAR Area meetings or zoom calls that you get, you're generally with company owners. And not really the guys that are on the front line as such. How do we make the guys on the front line aware of this RBA? Because I would reckon the majority of them don't even know that it's available to them. Paul Bullock The company owners that's that, that we regard as their job to make their guys aware that, that this is available. And to be fair, most of them are the kinds of people that, you know, if one of their guys enters into some hardship, they are aware of it, and they will make a claim on that person's behalf. So, you know, that does happen a lot, obviously, you know, I can't mention names or anything like that, but you know, we get a lot of those kind of, you know, inquiries and claims from from owners of businesses on behalf of their staff. And the more we do things like that, the more the staff themselves, become aware of it. Colin Wynn Well hopefully, a lot of them will be listening to this podcast and they will be hearing about it for the very first time too. Colin Wynn So finally, I'd like to end my podcasts with a funny moving story. Do you have one to tell? Paul Bullock I have lots. Colin Wynn Then we are all ears because the last one I recorded had lots and the one before that three, there seem to be more and more. So let's go for it, Paul. Paul Bullock Well, I have attended lots of conferences over the years. The first BAR conference I ever went to was actually in Park Lane. I don't know how long ago that was that they were in Park Lane, but I've been going to conference every year for many, many, many years. My funniest thing happened on one of those conferences. I was working for Rentacrate at the time and Rentacrate was sponsoring the conference that year. I can't remember what year it was I can't even remember where it was. But as part of that sponsorship, we had little miniature crates full of sweets, and we were putting one in every delegates room. Well, this job fell to me. And I had a skeleton key. And I was knocking on I had a list of rooms and I was knocking on doors and patiently waiting for people to answer or not before I was using the skeleton key and going in and placing the little the little crate of chocolates where they could see it and a little message welcoming them. But of course, after about 20 knocking on doors, I was getting really fed up with this. And I was aware of the fact that the bar was open and there was things going on down there that I'd much rather be involved in. So it got to the stage where myself with my colleague who was doing it with me at the time, we will literally knocking on the door. One second was elapsing the key, the skeleton key was going in the door. We were in, sweets down off again. Well, in the process of this, one of these we knocked on the door skeleton key straight is swung the door open. And there is a very, very, very embarrassed young lady stark naked who's just got out of the shower. She was embarrassed, I was embarrassed, neither of us knew what to do. I kind of like threw the sweets at her slammed the door and we left. After that. The we carried on we start and we were paying attention now. Were people answering. But again 10 doors later we were fed up with it again. So it was literally back to knocking on the door skeleton key straight in, in we went. And sure enough, this time, went straight into one of these rooms. And there is a very naked old man who's just got out of the shower. And it was very embarrassing for both of us as well. Now, the old man was part of the industry sadly, he's no longer with us. So we, we, we can't talk about we can't talk about him. The young lady was the daughter of somebody who still owns a removal company in the BAR and he's very well known in the BAR. Colin Wynn So you're gonna name her now aren't you, at the count of 3 Paul - 1, 2, 3. Paul Bullock No names, but he knows who he is. Colin Wynn Very good. Oh, yes, very good. I've often wondered how those crates get into hotel rooms. Colin Wynn Go on then Paul you must have one more, you said you've got a few Paul Bullock Okay, I've got one from when I when I first started with with Giltspur Bullens and their GB Crate Hire they decided that I really needed to understand how the removal side happened. So for the first week they put me out on a van with a lovely old chap called Roy Cowdell who you know other people in the industry might remember him but he was a wonderful old boy could double up for Father Christmas he had white hair and a white beard and all this kind of thing. But I was out with him on one particular household move. And we're carrying boxes up and down and all this kind of thing getting on famously with the lady of the house. All of a sudden, Roy comes down the stairs, banging something on his leg, saying where's where's the lady where's the lady and I sort of pointed towards the kitchen and he walked passed me and walked into the kitchen and I've followed him in. And this thing is banging on his leg and he said to Excuse me, madam, he said I found your torch under the bed but I think it needs new batteries. It's not working. And she looked down at it and I looked down at it and it was a vibrator! Colin Wynn It's taken to Episode Five, for somebody to mention a vibrator. Paul Bullock There was some initial embarrassment and then everybody burst out laughing. And then you know, we just she was wonderful about it. The whole thing she thought was hilarious. Her move went smoothly, and we all got a nice tip at the end of the day, so Colin Wynn Hopefully not from the vibrator. Colin Wynn Well Paul, it's been an absolute pleasure to hear about you, crate rental industry and the RBA. And thank you so much for your stories. Hopefully that lady will come forward. Paul Bullock No, she wont she's still very embarrassed about it. Colin Wynn I will see you at a BAR area meeting at some point. I know you don't like bumping elbows but we'll ching ching, a beer. Paul Bullock I'm sure we will. Thanks, Colin. Nice to speak to you. Colin Wynn Thank you, Paul. Thank you. Paul Bullock Bye bye. Transcribed by https://otter.ai