EPISODE 14

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:00] ANNOUNCER: Do you enjoy listening to On The Ear, but wish you could earn ASHA CEUs for it? Start today. Speechtherapypd.com has over 175 hours of audio courses on-demand, with an average of 19 new audio courses released each month. Here's the best part, each episode earns you ASHA Continuing Ed Credits. Oh, no wait. This is the best part. As a listener of On The Ear, you can receive $20 off in annual subscription when you use code Ear21. Just head to speechtherapypd.com to sign up and use code Ear21, E-A-R-2-1 for $20 off your annual subscription.

[00:00:48] DS: You're listening to On The Ear, an audiology podcast sponsored by speechtherapypd.com. I'm your host, Dr. Dakota Sharp, Au.D, CCC-A, audiologist, clinical professor and lifelong learner.

While I primarily work with pediatric cochlear implants and hearing aids, I am absolutely intrigued by the many areas of audiology and communication in general. This podcast aims to explore the science of hearing, balance and communication with a variety of experts in hopes of equipping you to better serve your patients, colleagues and students. Let's go. We are live and On the Ear, brought to you by speechtherapypd.com.

[INTERVIEW]

[00:01:37] DS: In 2019, over 70% of American adults were using social media, with a study from that year showing these platforms are useful tools for patients with hearing loss to find information, connect with peers, share their stories and find providers. But, double-edged sword here, misinformation about hearing loss can be rampant on social media sites.

It's now 2021 and social media is a more powerful tool than ever, but as clinicians, how can we use these tools to better serve our patients, colleagues and communities? Is building a brand a worthwhile investment of our time? Today's guest is going to break down the ins and outs of building your brand and how it can help you extend your reach like never before. Dr. Lindsay Cockburn is a pediatric audiologist in Los Angeles, California and the creator of the blog and brand, Listen With Lindsay. I know you've heard of it by now. She created Listen With Lindsay to connect with parents of deaf and hard of hearing children and professionals to create an online community to support and encourage one another. Her goal is to share information in a relatable way that feels like it's from a friend. You can check out her audiology blog at listenwithlindsay.com, and that's Lindsay with an A, by the way. Don't get that confused. Or follow her on Instagram, Facebook, or TikTok, yes TikTok, @listenwithlindsay for lots of quick tips, breakdowns and breakdowns of new research, audiology quizzes and a lot of hashtag niece content. She's got a super cute niece.

Lindsay is also the clinical coordinator for the Doctor of Audiology program at California State University Northridge. Thank you so much for joining me Dr. Lindsay. I should say listen with Lindsay, as you probably are more well known around here.

[00:03:03] LC: Thank you so much, Dakota. Thank you for clarifying that I am a Lindsay with an A-Y. That's really important.

[00:03:09] DS: I have a friend who's a Lindsay with an A-Y and that's like at the top of her list when you first meet her, because I think thatÕs the one that gets confused a lot.

[00:03:17] LC: Yes, definitely.

[00:03:18] DS: Awesome. Okay, so why don't we just start at the start. What is Listen With Lindsay, other than kind of how I explained it so far. What is it and what inspired you to start it? 

[00:03:27] LC: Yeah, so I started Listen With Lindsay after I asked my boss for a raise, and they said no. I realized that no one was going to care about my career as much as I did. So, if I wanted to create some action and some traction and to go move up and expand my knowledge and my reach, then I needed to make my own opportunities.

For years, I had the idea for the blog and the social media account. I was always scared to start it. I was scared what people were going to say, that I wasn't good enough. Other audiologists would question me. We're a very skeptical field. We love to question for better or for worse. So, I was afraid, maybe I'm not really an expert, maybe I don't know enough, maybe I'm not smart enough, maybe other people are better at it than me. But no one was really stepping up. There's a lot more people now in this space. But there wasn't a ton before when I went for it. So, I was kind of scared to be the first, but now I'm in great company. So that's good news.

I had that moment where I got that no, and I was so frustrated that I went home that weekend and I bought the URL, and I got all the social media handles, and I made some blog posts, some Instagram posts and I was ready to go. I had the knowledge from before that because actually, five years before that I had started a beauty lifestyle and travel blog called Blushing in Hollywood, which still exists, and that one was like a lot of fun and it was more of a hobby and I actually do make some money off of that one too. But I would put so much time and effort into it and it wouldn't really grow, and I knew if I made the audiology one that it would do well, yet I was still too scared to do it.

So, I was right all along. If you build it, theyÕll come because there is just a need for it out there on social media. There just wasn't that many people sharing information about audiology.

[00:05:28] DS: Yeah. I definitely want to talk like kind of what your starting point was. Was it a blog? Was it like an Instagram? What was the foundation of it? But before I even get to that, I do want to say like, you really are the face, I want to say of like good audiology, personal branding and social media. And as we started this podcast, and I was having to use social media to really reach people and have them know, ÒHey, there's a podcast here.Ó First, I want to say I definitely struggled with those same emotions of like, ÒOkay, people are going to see me as an expert, even though I don't even really see myself as a total expert here. What is the voice I'm trying to be?Ó But I think you definitely set a great example and that you're like, ÒI'm not here to be that number one expert for you. I'm here to be on the journey with you and sharing the information I know. I'm not trying to be the end all be all resourceÓ, because you do such a good job of collaborating with other people using other people's resources, promoting their things to so that it's much more like a collaborative community thing. It's not like a, ÒHere I am. Here's your information. It's all coming from me, me, me.Ó It's really been such a great model. It's really been helpful for me to use as well. So, I wanted to give you those huge props there, for sure.

[00:06:39] LC: Wow. Thank you. That's so nice of you to say. Yeah, I think it's way more fun when you collaborate and I started all of them in that weekend. So, I already had the knowledge about blogging and social media, because I had listened to so many podcasts, read websites, watch YouTube videos, taking courses on blogging and being an influencer in general. So, I did have a lot of background knowledge, so I knew to create all of it right at once. And if you are thinking about starting it, and that sounds so overwhelming, because you don't have that background knowledge, you don't have to dive headfirst into it like that. You can start small and you definitely don't have to be ready to start. You can just come up with the name and then start and go from there and evolve and change over time because I absolutely have.

[00:07:27] DS: So, let's pretend that there's like an audiologist out there who is either in private practice or in a hospital, whatever setting, but their primary thing right now is that they're clinical, and they would like to start some kind of personal brand in this space. Where would you recommend they start? Do you think the most effective thing is to go into the more blogging aspect using like Instagram or having a Facebook group? What do you feel like if you Ð what would be at this point in 2021 like a good starting point?

[00:07:54] LC: I would say to think about who you want to reach the most, and what kind of impact do you want to have, and then work backwards from there. So, something that inspired me was putting myself in the parentÕs shoes, the parents of kids with hearing loss. I'm around the same age as a lot of the parents of the kids that I would see. And where I was working before, we had parent classes that were in the middle of a workday. And I thought, if I was a parent, I wouldn't be able to come to this every week. That's kind of a bummer, that that's not available to me, where would I be seeking out information and honestly, probably on Instagram, which sounds silly if you're not using Instagram for that type of information, but there is really good information out there and ways to connect with other families and ways to connect with other professionals and learn things.

Everyone always laughs at me when I say learn things from TikTok, but truly, really, itÕs good information on social media. You have to fact check it and you have to question things, but they're really Ð it's a great way to connect with other people. So, that would be my suggestion is think about who you want to connect with, or what kind of impact you want to have, and then work backwards from there. So, that was my main center. And then the other thing was, I live in Los Angeles, and I felt like there was no real community as far as professionals go. So, I was like, ÒWhere can all the professionals go to find out information at the same time? All the local pediatric professionals in Los Angeles?Ó So, that motivated me to create a private Facebook group that is now, let's see if I can remember the name of my own Facebook group, but it's like Pediatric Audiology Journal and Friendship Club. So, that kind of evolved too. And I didn't want to limit it to just Los Angeles, but I wanted to have a spot where we could talk about what jobs are available or what things are working for us, or what new article have we read. So, we could share both informal and formal information, and I had to do something that I felt so cringy at the time. It was painful inside when I was doing it.

I went on Facebook and I added every audiologist or related professional I have ever talked to you whose name I had ever seen. I add friend, add friend, add friend, add friend. And I was like, ÒThis is so embarrassing.Ó I'm mortified. But you know what, it worked. You have to really get uncomfortable. If you want to grow, you have to be comfortable talking about yourself. I shouldn't say you have to be comfortable. You have to push yourself sometimes. But you have to talk about yourself and promote your own stuff. And to do that, you have to reach out and people want to help you. But you got to reach out and do your part first and let them know about it.

[00:10:46] DS: Yeah, that's great. I love this tip of starting backward. Kind of on that note, it sounds like your initial target audience was parents of children with hearing loss and other you know, typically pediatric audiologists. I mean, your audience has certainly grown a lot over time. In what ways has your audience changed and how have you had to kind of like pivot your content or the way that you deliver your content to keep up with that?

[00:11:14] LC: I would say it's always been kind of a mix of professionals, parents, students, and people with hearing loss, which is great. I love the diversity of it and talking to different people and getting their points of view too. That really helps me to create more content and to think about things with a broader lens. So, I don't know that the makeup has changed that much. I would say it's really pushed me to be a better professional in general. So, if I post a quote from an article that's Ð so when I make posts, sometimes I do like a picture of a quote of an article, and then I do the citation for the article. And then in the caption, I'll talk about it in a little bit more detail.

But that means I'm going to have to read that article so well and understand it so well, because people are going to ask me questions about it for sure. And question me, so I need to know the answers or have a general idea about it ahead of time. Okay, what are they going to ask me about this one and what's the answer? Can I get ahead of it and put it in the caption? And it's been a great resource for me, because I don't have a perfect memory. Sometimes I go back to my own posts and say, ÒWait, what was that again? Or what was the data or what was the statistic?Ó And it's been really helpful for me professionally to push me to seek out that information to digest it, in like a more intentional way, and to share it in a way that hopefully makes sense to more people. Because that's the other thing, there's all this great information, and audiologists have so much great information in their heads. But the way that we were giving it to people, was there was a huge disconnect. All the websites that I would see, I mean, there's some good ones, but most of them have too much professional jargon. It's too long. It's too wordy. They don't get to the point. There's no like human feelings and connection. It's not every single website, but for a lot of them, that's where I saw a gap. That's where I saw a place for myself to share that information. Like I'm your audiologist friend. I'm not just some Ð I'm a professional who knows the best. That's not who I am. I'm your friend who's an audiologist, who you can text and be like, ÒWait, what do I do when the tubing comes out of the ear mold?Ó Or whatever it is.

[00:13:34] DS: Yeah, , I think I see some of your some of your content like that just has so much engagement, where it's really just a 10-second video on replacing tubing or what this might mean, if you see this on your child's device. You know what I mean? Those like really simple little quick tips where somebody just needed that answer, that it needed a 10-paragraph instruction manual to tell them. They just needed someone with a smile to show them really quickly. When you can't get to your audiologist that regularly, having that person on Instagram who can provide that information is just so critical.

[00:14:04] LC: Yeah, and another thing I feel passionate about is, I feel like we used to empower parents to have more of a hands-on approach to their kidsÕ equipment. And we've kind of moved away from that, where we're like, ÒDon't touch it, we'll do it.Ó But I want to put it back on the parents. Audiologists and pediatric audiologists have very limited time and the more the parent knows and can take ownership of, the more the audiologist can get into deeper, more meaningful information with them as far as counseling goes in the appointment because there's always more the professional can tell you, but there's only so much time in the appointment. So, what you come in already knowing and feeling confident about that really is going to determine like how much they tell you. The more you take on and realize like this is my responsibility and I can do this, that's really going to help in the long term.

[00:14:54] DS: Yeah, that's a great point. I feel like one other thing audience wise that I see a lot that I didn't think about when I was kind of like first getting into this world was audiology students, like AuD students. There's a ton of them on Instagram, like with accounts specifically dedicated to their AuD program and they are very active. And I feel like even like myself, I mean, not that far out from my AuD program, like that wasn't really something I was thinking about. But now I just see them popping up more and more. And I see how like, some of the content from creators like yourself is focusing on things that they would be interested in, like, how to write a better cover letter and how to build your resume and how to make connections with people and things like that. So, I'm curious how you see that kind of space growing recently.

[00:15:42] LC: I love it. I think it's amazing. I'm so glad that there was someone who did it first to be the brave person who was like, ÒYeah, I'm a student, I might not know that much. But I can share my own experience. I can share what I do know. I think, again, it's a great way to grow as a professional yourself. It really pushes you to think about the information in more detail. And when you can teach something, especially if you can teach it in a simple, clear, easy to understand way, that is like another, a much deeper level of understanding. Explaining things in jargon is much different than in clear, easy to understand language. It's much more challenging. And so, I think it's amazing for the students. It's going to help them learn and retain the information better. It's excellent for networking. They're making friends at other universities that they wouldn't otherwise. They have more support emotionally. When things are hard, they can share that and commiserate with each other. That's so important when you're going through something challenging and traumatizing like grad school.

[00:16:49] DS: I'm like, ÒOh, I missed that.Ó And then I'm like, ÒNo, I don't know.Ó And then IÕll see them post like, ÒI had this final in my, whatever course.Ó I'm like, ÒOh, I missed Ð no, I don't. I need to pull back. I do not miss that. I don't miss that.Ó But yeah, it's been such a cool space to see it grow lately and I do feel like there's so much like opportunity to reach the next generation of audiologists through this kind of platform that I think really goes unnoticed typically, when they're looking for jobs, when they're looking for experiences, like I don't think current places are really using these tools enough to reach really bright, really promising students.

[00:17:24] LC: Yeah, it's a way to make a portfolio for themselves about what knowledge they have to share and what kind of skills they might have, beyond clinical skills, which are important in 2021, to have those Internet, social media, graphic design skills. Those are always really handy. And then the other thing is it helps them to think more deeply about their future and what they want to do with audiology, and it's helping them to brand themselves. What kind of audiologists do they want to be? What things interest them? Who can they connect with that's interested in the same thing? Who can they make friends with?

Social media has by far been the best thing for me as far as networking goes, which sounds silly, but it's really Ð don't overthink it. It's as easy as sending someone a DM, a direct message, and just starting a conversation just responding to things that they're posting. Like don't copy and paste long paragraphs. No one wants to be spammed to death, like a real human, say a real personal thing, and a real response. And no one wants to be handed a business card, but like people like to talk about mutual interests.

It's helped me connect with so many audiologists, so many people around the country, around the world and deeper ways. It's helped me find more resources for families I worked with too. When I need to find an audiologist in a different country, it's much easier to find on Instagram versus any other website. So, that's been handy too.

[00:19:03] DS: Yeah, I completely agree with the networking aspect. I feel like I never knew that there were this many audiologist out there with like similar interests, who create amazing content. I can't tell you the number of times I've like screenshotted someone's graphic or something to save for later so that I could like print that and hand it to a family. I mean, there's just so much awesome stuff out there and so many people to meet and connect with. Honestly, in a year like this, where there's been really no opportunities for in person connection, it's been amazing for that. I've met so many more people than I would have at an annual conference, for example. I mean, it's been great.

[00:19:43] LC: I totally agree. Yeah, I mean, to walk away, to have those Ð it's easy to reach out to them again. You meet someone at a conference, you might get their email, you might talk to them once or twice and then say hi when you see them again, but that's usually it. This is like way more meaningful when you're connected all the time like this.

[00:20:00] DS: Yeah. Switching gears, a little bit and talking more about like brand things. So, I know, there's probably kind of two different kinds of people who might want to get into this space, right? You've got maybe somebody who owns a practice or who works for a practice, and they kind of want to help in the promotional aspect of it. And so, they want to build like a business brand. Maybe you want yours to be very serious and expert kind of driven. Maybe you want yours to be very warm and very personalized and have a lot of emphasis on the people who work there. There's a lot of approaches to like a business brand and we don't have to really get into that. I don't know what your experience is there. But personally, I know you've really built up your personal brand. I mean, Listen With Lindsay has your name in it, right? It's not like listening one on one. ItÕs Listen With Lindsay. So, I'm curious how would you describe what your personal brand is? And I've got more questions after that. But how would you describe your personal brand?

[00:20:57] LC: Yeah. So, I've heard people say before, your brand is not about you, it's about how you make other people feel, so that's kind of what I focus on. Like I said, I want people to feel like I'm their audiologist friend, like whether they're another audiologist, a student, a professional, a parent, I'm your friend. You can talk to me, you can ask me whatever you need to, I'm approachable, I'm easy to talk to, I'm there to support and encourage you. I want the best for you and your family and I want to be there as an extra support to your audiologist who might not have the time to tell you everything, and to explain things in just a simple way. Like I said, I think that was really missing with audiology content.

[00:21:39] DS: Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, just basing it on that more personal relationship with things. I mean, at this point how do you feel? What do you feel like you've been some of the bigger challenges in maintaining that kind of brand over time? Whether it's like a time management thing, or like keeping it focused on one topic, sort of audience rather than expanding? What have been some of the challenges you faced in maintaining that brand?

[00:22:10] LC: It's definitely Ð so, if you're thinking about doing social media, like you said before, it is a huge time commitment. It looks so easy from the outside. It looks like, ÒOh, I just post a little picture and write a little caption up.Ó It takes me over an hour to write a lot of my posts and I post every single day. And I have since I started the account and the blog, which is if you've ever tried to do that, you know that is no joke. That's very challenging. That's a huge commitment and it's not easy. But I think it's so important to show up every day.

So, I think it's been Ð I don't have so many followers that it's hard to be personal. I know that I would do even better. Talking about what you mentioned before, so people think about doing it for their business brand, or their clinic or things like that. People don't really connect with clinics, they connect with people. So, if you really want a brand that grows and thrives, you have to show up, and the best way to do that, you have to build that like, know, trust with people, and the way to do that is to really show up, have a consistent voice, say things in the same way. I've said it like 10 times already. But I tried to say things in an easy, simple, straightforward, conversational way. That's like my brand voice. I would really say to a friend, like I was texting a friend.

And you can do it for your office if you want. But if you want to grow and make this a bigger thing, I think you have to show up. I think video and audio content is really the best way to do that. Because people can hear your voice, they can see, you and they can really feel like they know you. If you think about any podcast that you listen to, you really feel like you know the people who do it or the creators that you watch, like who are your favorite Instagram people and think about why that is. Probably because they show their face, they talk to you, and you feel like you know them. You feel like they're your friend. I think that is the key that some people are missing. But it depends on what your goals are. So, if you just want to show prospective people who are interested, like what kind of services you offer, you don't have to show your face and do videos and audio.

[00:24:31] DS: Yeah.

[00:24:33] LC: The other thing I would say is I have made a commitment to making my content accessible. So, I do not post any audio or video without a caption. Again, that looks like it would be very simple and easy. It is incredibly time consuming. It takes a long time. It's worth it. But it takes a long time. I would love to put out more content that was video and audio, but it is really time consuming to edit that and to caption it, but I really have that commitment. And I think if you're in this space that you should be committed to that.

[00:25:14] DS: Yeah, those are those are all really great insights. I feel like, personally, it's keeping up with the content itself is just so challenging. And yeah, I know, I think I saw you had a post sometime in the last couple of months, where you were remarking on having gone like, however long, posting every single day. Are there any strategies or tips you could give to people who are like struggling just to create the content to put up in the first place?

[00:25:39] LC: Yes, for sure. So, I'm doing this mistake right now. But you don't want to be creating a post from scratch every single day. That's how you get into being like, ÒI can just skip today.Ó And then you get into that, and you just tell yourself that over and over. So, the best way to do it is to really batch your content. What I mean by that is, I use the website Canva, canva.com, to create my graphics, and I pay for Canva. It's not that expensive. It's a tiny investment and it's worth it for me to have access to all the different tools. So, I use Canva to make my graphics. I keep a running list of post ideas. And then I can sometimes do themes, or I've done Ð I have brain builders, where I share other professionals, students, and people. So, that helps me to create regular content that people are used to seeing. Series, things like that are great, and creating a bunch on one day and then making a schedule.

So, I use PLANOLY to schedule all my Instagram posts, so having them all laid out and then writing out all of the captions, that's really the best way to make sure that you always have something to post. You always have a backup in case you didn't get to it. I can always change up what I was going to do. I'm not married to my PLANOLY plan. But that's the best way to stay out of things, is to batch your content.

[00:27:17] DS: ThatÕs the tip. Stay ahead, play it out, and get ahead of it. Don't get behind. Yeah, as a person who is often stuck behind, I can attest that when I've planned ahead, it's always for the better. Speaking a little bit more to like the content itself. What kind of formats of things do you find get a lot of engagement? Do you feel like your website, are specific blog posts more likely to get more engagement? Or things on Instagram or Facebook going to get more engagement if it's like an image or a video or text? What are you finding that's like really reaching people better?

[00:27:54] LC: So, I find the content that does the best is things that are so good people want to share them. That's what you want to make. If you want to grow, you need to make that thing so good that people want to show more people. So, it needs to teach them something, it needs to entertain them, it needs to give them something so good that more people need to see this, which is not easy to come up with, and not everyone is going to be a hit. But I just think about usually things that are topical do really well. So, I did one about how to communicate better with people when we're wearing face masks. I did that pretty early on into the pandemic because I knew people were looking for that information. Patients and families and people with hearing loss who hadn't been treated yet. And then questions like, is cochlear implant surgery, brain surgery? I knew that one would probably do pretty well, because that's something people are curious about.

And then the content that always does well is anything personal too. If I post a picture of myself, I am so lucky, my sister is an incredible lifestyle photographer. So, I'm very lucky that I have these gorgeous professional photos. I haven't taken any in almost a year. But if I wanted to, she would do it for me. I have these photos that I can use. If I post a photo of myself that always does well. If I post a photo of me and my niece, that always does well. People like to see you. But you can't just rely on that. That's not long-term growth. That's not something people are going to share, either. That's something they're going to comment and be like, ÒOh, how cute.Ó But what kind of engagement are you talking about? If you want to reach more people than it needs to be more either funny, interesting, educational, entertaining, things like that. So, kind of focus on those goals and that's how you'll grow.

[00:29:53] DS: Yeah, I've run into the same stumbling blocks where I post a picture of my son, it lights up, it's on fire, right? And then something that I feel like is super educational, that I'm really interested in, might not catch on at all, but it's probably because I went way too far down, like the nerdy path and itÕs not far reaching enough. So, I think you're right, it's going to take maybe a little bit of time. If you don't start with like who your audience is right off the bat, it's going to take a little time for maybe them to find you or you to build that up. And then from there, that's probably going to dictate what your content is going to look like. Because if you go too far down the nerdy hole, or too far down the personal life hole, you're going to leave a lot of the audience that you've built up in the dust.

[00:30:36] LC: Yeah, definitely. Another tip that I have is I spent like the $3 on the Repost app. So, like you said earlier, I share other people's content. Other people make incredible content, and I want more people to see it. I want to share those other creators, lift them up. If they already did a great, I don't need to do it again. I can just share theirs and people like that. That's how they can grow. And the other thing is, when you purchase the app, you can take off the little attribution or whatever, or it says their name. And I share my own posts, my own older posts from the beginning, because those posts were great, if I do say so myself.

[00:31:16] DS: ThatÕs good. ThatÕs a good tip.

[00:31:18] LC: And I have thousands more followers now who didn't see them the first time, so why not share it back? And then there's people who were following me who didn't see it the first time. Or maybe they like the reminder or refresher or, oh, now they need the information, so it's more relevant right now than it was before.

[00:31:36] DS: Yeah, that's a great idea. That's one of those real hacks right there. That's good stuff.

Okay, so also kind of related to the content thing. How do you feel like you can or somebody in a similar vein, like in a personal branding kind of situation, how can they best use stories? Because stories are slowly becoming more and more popular. I have some friends who only go on Instagram or Facebook to look at stories, and then they don't look at anything else. So, I know that you're pretty active with using your stories. How do you feel like people in this field can use it for the best?

[00:32:09] LC: So, anytime people engage with your content, then you're going to be shown to more people. It's going to boost you up in the algorithm. So, anything that people respond to is going to do better. If you do more polls, more quizzes, more things that people reply to, and direct message you about, that's really going to boost you up. So, those are great things to do. Anything that shows your face, you talking, even if you're talking about something personal, something professional, it doesn't have to be that serious, just showing up, I think is great. One of my favorite creators is Mrs. Speechie P, and she's an SLP and she shows up. I see her face almost every single damn story. It's reminding me how I am not doing that. That would really help me. I feel like she's my friend in my head. I DMÕd her a bunch of times. Hopefully, we're real friends at this point. But she's my friend in my head because I know her. She does like goofy dances. She asks about like, do you remember these nostalgic Ô90s shows? It's not always about speech all the time and it doesn't have to be always about your topic all the time. For the most part, you want to do that. But it's absolutely okay to branch out and to let people see a different side of you.

But yeah, anything they respond to is great. And then just figuring out what people like and doing more of it. The students love the quizzes, and so do some of the parents. I do like a lot of audiology quizzes where I ask audiology questions about terms or about hearing losses and they have to quiz themselves. Those probably get the most engagement out of all my posts, because people really like to try them and see if they can get the right answer. And I encourage them to go for it and not worry if they get the wrong answer since we're all perfectionists. And it's just kind of fun.

[00:34:08] DS: Yeah, I'm going to be honest, I've never missed a quiz. If you post a quiz, thatÕs like the content I live for. I love making them too, just because I love doing them. I'll go in and just do it myself from the quiz I just made just because they're that much fun to do. ThatÕs how much I enjoy them.

[00:34:26] LC: It is satisfying when you get that little like confetti explosion.

[00:34:30] DS: The confetti is so good. They definitely consulted some psychologists to make the most satisfying effect. Oh, it's so awesome. It's so awesome.

Okay, so I asked you a little bit about like, what were some of the challenges of maintaining your personal brand? But what have been some of like, the really big successes or rewards, like the really positive outcome from maintaining this. I mean, you're putting in a lot of work, you're posting every day, what are you what are you seeing come out of it that's made it all worthwhile?

[00:35:01] LC: Definitely the relationship is the best part. The friends that I've made, I know when I go to a conference one day, when we go to conferences again, I'm going to like meet these people in real life and really connect with them. I've met people in real life from Instagram. I'm so glad someone kind of forced me to do it, Valley Gideons, my battle call. She saw that I go down to my sister's in San Diego, and she's like, ÒI'm right in the middle, let's meet for coffee.Ó And I was like, ÒOh, is it going to be awkward or whatÕs that going to be like?Ó I'm so glad she pushed me to do it, because she was a delight. I had the greatest time with her. And then I had wanted to observe at this audiologistÕs office some cochlear implant mapping. She's got two kids with cochlear implants. She was like, ÒYeah, you can come to my kids mapping next month.Ó I got to come with them, so that was already something I wanted to do. So, it was awesome to have that connection.

And then after that, I felt more comfortable. So, I met Michelle Hugh, who is also down in San Diego, and she's so great, and a really awesome friend. And it's just been amazing that way and reconnected with people who I haven't talked with for a while. They feel like they know me again, they know what I'm up to, they send me messages where otherwise we might not be in touch. So, that's been incredible. And then if you think about your favorite patients, they're probably like the cute ones, but also the ones who really get what you're saying and follow your recommendations and listen to you. That is the best.

[00:36:36] DS: Yeah, definitely.

[00:36:38] LC: Not everyone does. Some days, it's like, most people aren't. So, when they do, it feels so good. That's who's on Instagram. That's who's on social media. Looking up information. People who want to apply it and use it, and it will change their life. I'm super passionate about remote microphones. I talk about them all the time. When parents message me and say, ÒWe tried it, and oh, my gosh, this has been amazing. My kid is saying so many more words. This is so much better. Thank you for sharing this.Ó I'm like, ÒYes. Another one. I got him.Ó

[00:37:11] DS: Yeah, that's amazing. You can really see like the direct impact of something like that. That's awesome. I love to hear the personal connections you're able to make from it too, that's just the definition of what you were saying in terms of this is networking like, but way better. It's a lot more personal. It's meeting these people like in their lives, because social media, when you're building a personal brand, like it really is going to bleed into who you are as a person and what your interests are. I just think, yeah, that's a really cool example.

[00:37:39] LC: Yeah, that's the best. So, if you want more people to listen to you, or you want to find the people who want the recommendations, the advanced recommendations, then do that. And the other thing is, sometimes if people reach out to me, I'll give them questions to ask their audiologist or their professionals. So, things they might not have thought about to get them additional information. Or sometimes people have gotten not so great recommendations from other professionals and it's definitely Ð I mean, I don't want to be giving people medical or audiology advice on the internet. That's not my goal. It's more to give them the information so they can advocate for themselves or ask the right questions, know what question to ask in the first place. Know what they don't know. But sometimes, someone, they had a child with a mild hearing loss, and they went to an audiologist who like underlined mild, but it was like 35 to 45. And I was like, ÒWhat the heck?Ó I was like, ÒThat's not like borderline at all.Ó

And then I was like, ÒWell, as long as you don't go to like a wonky ENT, I think things will be okay.Ó And then they messaged me a couple of months later, and were like, ÒI went to an ENT who said they don't need hearing aids, so then I got another opinion.Ó And I was like, ÒOkay, well, I'm glad we talked about that ahead of time. So, you were ready, in case you were on anotherÓ, and that's like a problem with insurance like for people in Los Angeles and people all over the country, honestly. So, those people who are in those HMOs, who gets stuck going to those adult providers for their children who give recommendations that are outdated or not quite appropriate or not the best fit. I want to respect them, but at the same time, and I don't want to them to waste their time, the parents or the kids.

[00:39:34] DS: Yeah. That's a really good point. And I think toeing that line a little bit, like, ethically, we have ethical standards to follow and one of them is representing audiology well, is kind of like a good summary of what that one ethical point is. And I think, not using it as a platform to give direct medical advice to somebody is like, maybe more people need to hear that if they're interested in getting into this world. That's not what this is supposed to be. You're not conducting business through your Instagram account, not you personally, I'm saying. To the person out there who wants to start this, like, this isn't for you to have your business all exist through Instagram, this is just a way for you to reach people and provide information, if that makes sense.

[00:40:17] LC: Definitely. Yeah, like I said, I want people to listen to me. So sometimes it's hard for me to cut myself off. But that really is best practices to give people all the information so they can make the best decision for them. We should be doing that in the clinic anyways. We shouldn't be telling people what to do, and bossing them around. But we're going to get more buy in when we give people the information and trust them to make their decision. So, that's really what to aim for. And then speaking of ethical things too, you want to make sure that you are Ð if you are interested in this, that you're talking to your employer, maybe your AuD program, and make sure that you're understanding what their policies are around social media, and that you're following them is really important. So, some places don't care, some places are more strict, or have different criteria that you might not expect. So, it's really important to make sure before you get started and do something that's not going to be okay that you know that ahead of time.

[00:41:20] DS: Yeah, that's a really great point. That's a really great consideration for everybody to keep in mind. Thank you for putting that in there. Okay, so kind of getting back into the world I've recently learned about as I've become a lot more active, sort of in the social media world as it pertains to audiology and speech. I mean, it's more like a CSD conglomerate of social media. There are a lot of SLPs that I interact with a lot on Instagram as well, a lot of auditory verbal therapists, a lot of teachers of the deaf, like, the whole CSD world is pretty active. But I will say like, we mentioned that there's some AuD students who are getting more involved, but from a strictly audiologistsÕ perspective, there are a lot less people with personal brands, I guess is a good way to put it. I feel like there's a good number of SLPs who have some kind of personal branding on social media. There's a good number of like, I guess they're teachers of the deaf, just like kind of communication adjacent professionals as well. But again, it doesn't feel like there's that many strictly focused on audiology things. Do you feel there's a reason that more audiologists aren't utilizing this technology? What do you think is holding them back from getting more involved in this space?

[00:42:40] LC: I think, I'm so glad that a really has exploded. I'm sure it doesn't feel like an explosion compared to other fields. But it really has taken off in the last year, and I'm so happy, there's so many more people and there's room for everyone. Again, there's never going to be too many people. No one is ever going to have whoever's listeningÕs perspective, like you're always going to have something unique to offer. So, don't ever let that stop you from sharing or from creating something you're interested in.

I think just numbers wise, there's more people in those professions, which is why we're smaller. And then the other thing as far as personal brand goes, I think it probably taps into that fear, again, because if you are a brand or you're saying that you're listening 101, hopefully, there's no one with that name, and you post things and people disagree with you, they're not disagreeing with you, or it's not that they don't like you. It's they don't like the brand or whatever. It might feel more personal. But it gives you that separation, and you're a lot more vulnerable when you're putting yourself out there and giving people a chance to say they don't like you, they don't agree with you. They don't think you're good at what you're doing. It's a lot scarier. There's a lot of fear there. So, I think that stops people, and audiologists are busy people. I don't think all of them have the time or energy. Or sometimes they're just Ð they put in enough at work and they don't want to think about audiology outside of work and that's totally fine, too.

[00:44:10] DS: Yeah, that's a really good point. I do feel like it's got to be related to this huge problem we have in the world of audiology. I mean, every year we hear about how many people are diagnosed with hearing loss, how it's one of Ð the number one problems of people throughout their lives in America. And yet, how many people will you meet in a given week who have never heard of the title audiologist before. You know what I mean? They're not even sure what this person does. And so, building these personal brands one is good for like, reach, networking, those things are awesome, but just in helping to help people better understand that this exists, because so many people have hearing loss and they feel like they can just get by, they can just fly under the radar. And having brands like yours that are like, ÒHey, there's nothing wrong with you. Here's a person who's in this field who can provide you some advice. HereÕs an idea of what the steps look like, and it's not so scary.Ó Having voices like that can be critical in people taking those first steps and seeking care.

So, I do feel like it is such a big space that's super underutilized right now. It's kind of getting, I would say, more brands are using Facebook, I mean, still not that many personal brands. But I am seeing more private practices and things, utilize people, utilize pictures, hopefully getting the right consent form signed, but having like, patient photos and things. I don't know how that works with HIPAA. But they're definitely working to make things more personal and approachable. But I do feel like that's one of these big problems that our profession is facing as a whole is just like, people knowing what it is, to the rest of the population. And these spaces are places where that can really be fleshed out and better understood.

[00:45:56] LC: Definitely. Yeah, it's great to have the representation out there and have people understand. For years, I saw so many influencers. There are nutritionists, doctors of every single specialty are on Instagram sharing information. They're influencers. They partner with brands that are related to what they do. I was like, ÒWhere's the audiology influencer?Ó And I was like, ÒWhy not me? What's stopping me from doing it? I'm scared. Okay. Why don't I just try it anyway.Ó The other thing, though, when I thought about my career and what I wanted out of it, I love Jane Madell. She's like one of my heroes, and she is a pediatric audiologist, if you've never heard of her. She has like purple hair. She's from New York, she's kind of sassy, like I am and like, tells people stuff pretty straight. It's not always the nicest, but it's the well thought out research to answer and what they really need to hear. And she gets to travel all over the world and talk at all these different conferences. I assume she gets paid to do a lot of that work, and consult with people, and then share the information with all kinds of people and share about audiology.

I was like, ÒI want to be like that.Ó I want to be able to Ð I love traveling. I want to travel to places. I want people to pay me to travel to places. There are so many brands out there with a lot of money for marketing, why can't they pay me to talk about their products? If I'm interested in I like them anyways, why not me? So, if you're thinking about it from what other benefits could come from it, I would say think about your career and what you want to get out of it. And I'm not necessarily like rolling in the dough from Instagram. I have been paid for some of my content that I've made and I have been asked to speak at different conferences, but it's a way to get your name out there and yourself out there, so you are seen as the expert. So, it's almost like a cyclical thing or I say I'm the expert, I put the information out there, I get that like, know, trust, and then I look like the expert. So, when people google pediatric audiologist, I was like, ÒWell, who's going to pop up? Why not me?Ó

[00:48:11] DS: Yeah. That's a great point. That's a great point. And just like envisioning what you want your job to be, if you want to have this ability to reach people in that way, then it's going to be something that you have to build from the ground up. And so, speaking of that, building it from the ground up, so we've got a listener out there, they're like, ÒOkay, I've decided I want to take the plunge and start building either my personal brand or a community of people. I want to help with that reach.Ó If you had like, three steps, or like three to five like tips on just like launching this, what would you say are things you have to do, and things you should avoid at all costs if you're trying to get into this world?

[00:48:53] LC: I would say things you have to do, it's really important to be consistent. Like I said, it's not easy. It looks a lot easier than it actually is. But being consistent is what's going to help you grow, and you're going to grow so painfully slow, and in the beginning, it's going to be painful. When three people like your post, it's going to hurt. It's going to hurt your soul. You're going to be like, I put so much time and energy into this, no one is seeing it, no one cares. And it's going to be months and months and months of that, and you have to stick it out. You have to be in it for the long term if you want to see big results. So, I would say, if you want to launch it, don't expect to be huge right away. It takes a lot of time to grow and to reach people.

Batching content is huge, so you don't get behind and overwhelmed because there's going to be tons of days where you don't feel like making a post from scratch and it's just not efficient, anyways, to do things that way. Connect with other creators and don't do it in a spammy way. But think of ways that you can create content together, posts where you both can contribute information and then be open when other people want to do it. Be generous. Don't be only thinking about yourself. Be willing to give up tips or tricks or information and not like, ÒOh, I need to keep this to myself, because this is only for me.Ó Especially with the online stuff, I'm happy to tell everyone like every detail of how I do it. It's hard to learn yourself. It's so time consuming. You don't even realize it. But I'm happy to tell you like the things that took me way too long to learn, I'm happy to tell people so they can get there a little bit faster than me. But those, like using Canva, using PLANOLY, or some kind of planner, so you can stay consistent. Those are important. Your website is going to outlive any other content you make and then the most important thing that you need to do is to create an email list. So, if you listen to any kind of social media marketing things, they'll tell you, your email list is really all you own. Your website could go down. Your social media could go down. People could be not interested in Instagram and a year, two years. So, what are you going to have that's going to last long term? I think it's important to have that website as a backup. I don't necessarily post all the time on my website, but I have it there. When people want to google and find me, it helps with the search engine optimization, which you can go out and research but basically, like Google.

[00:51:34] DS: We donÕt have to get into that.

[00:51:38] LC: But other social media doesn't have that. So, people aren't going to find you just on the internet, when they google pediatric audiologist unless you have a website and you're posting information that way. And then you need to have that in order to build your email list. So, I have an email list that way, if Instagram was to go down, I could reach out to those people directly. And those are the people who are usually the most interested in what you have to say. 

[00:52:03] DS: Yeah, wow, that is really good advice. Those are all some golden tips there. I'm really hoping that people listening who want to get into this world are writing that down, because that is super, super critical. And thank you for sharing, I really do appreciate that. That nature, that spirit of like generosity, and that we're all doing this to hopefully better everyone else. It's not like a really self-focused thing. So, I really appreciate you sharing that, those insights. WeÕre kind of coming up on the end of our time, but you touched a little bit on you're passionate about encouraging families, especially in utilizing remote microphone technology. I'm so with you there. When you see someone like actually understand, first of all, like how to access it, whether it's through their app or through the button, oh, my gosh, why do they still have to make it so difficult. ThereÕs one brand that isn't really difficult, but all the other ones are very difficult for some reason. Once you see them just light up when mom can walk out of the room and down the hall and say, ÒAre you ready to go get some lunch?Ó And they go, ÒOh, my gosh.Ó Those moments are just awesome.

Are there any other topics that you're really passionate about that you want to give a quick plug for like, ÒHey, come to my website or my Instagram and check out this content, because I love talking about these specific things.Ó

[00:53:18] LC: Like you said, I'm obsessed with the remote microphones even in quiet, even for newborn babies. I love them right away. I'm pretty liberal with that. I'm not very conservative, like some people are. I say go for it. You want to get as many clear words and that little brain as soon as possible and remote microphone is the way to do it. I think mild hearing losses don't have a mild impact. The term is misleading. We still downplay these way too much. I play simulations from the Verifit equipment on Ð

[00:53:46] DS: I love those posts on your Instagram. I love those posts.

[00:53:49] LC: Another tool I would love to share with every single parent and not everyone has the time to do it and it's so helpful, and I couldn't believe people were asking me for a profound hearing loss, what it sounds like. I was like, ÒOh, no, we're not explaining this well. It sounds like nothing.Ó

[00:54:03] DS: Yeah. We need to walk back a few steps.

[00:54:06] LC: You can't hear it. There's a disconnect here. So, it really shows you what people are understanding, but the mild hearing loss, the professionals will always ask me, ÒDo you think it's overestimating?Ó I don't. I think we're underestimating the impact and playing it down for whatever reason.

I want bilateral cochlear implantation at six months to become the norm as soon as possible. I saw there's a mom on Instagram who is an SLP. She just got her child implanted at four months and activated at five months, and they were just born with hearing loss. They didn't have meningitis. That was very exciting for me. But I want more parents to know that that is going to be the new norm and that if they push for it, they might be able to get it. Someone's got to be first. Someone's got to be that parent that keeps demanding it and if you don't know that's a possibility, you're not going to know to ask for it. But that can make a huge difference. The way we do cochlear implant evaluations is way too slow. We waste so much time. We can be doing them so much faster. I feel passionately about that.

And then, I'm really interested in sharing more information about systemic racism and white supremacy. How they impact audiology. I loved your last podcast episode that I listened to, that was sharing a lot more details about that. But I think that's such an important topic to dive into, that people are uncomfortable with, and it's easy to gloss over it and talk about hearing aids or babies hearing for the first time and happy fluffy things. But the truth is Ð

[00:55:38] DS: ItÕs more fun to keep it cute.

[00:55:40] LC: The truth is that that there is a huge gap in how white middle and upper-class families, what kind of treatment they get, and the services they get, and everyone else. And every professional will tell you, ÒAbsolutely, that's true.Ó Or most professionals who are looking at it can say, ÒThere is a huge split. ThereÕs a lot of systemic reasons that's happening. And then maybe there's some implicit reasons that's happening.Ó It's never going to change unless we start talking about it.

[00:56:10] DS: Yeah. Wow. All great. All episodes for another time, if you're interested. Yeah, those are definitely a lot of topics. We're hoping to get into a little bit more. So, it has just been so awesome. having you on Lindsay. I really appreciate you taking the time and sharing your really, really, really great insights, so specific, so detailed, and so helpful. So yeah, thank you, again for joining me. And I'm looking forward to having you back at some point in the future, whether it's about one of those topics you're passionate about or something when your accounts reach the 100,000 plus followers, we'll have to talk about what that was like. But in the meantime, I kind of plugged a few of your things at the beginning. But where can people find you?

[00:56:55] LC: Thank you so much. Yeah, this has been really fun. Obviously, I get excited about these different topics. I love talking about them. That's another reason I wanted to create it, to give myself more opportunities for the people who wanted to hear it. But you can follow me on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok at Listen With Lindsay. You can read my blog, which is that listenwithlindsay.com. And you can sign up for my Hearing Happy Hour newsletter. And that way, every time I post, you'll get an email notification that I have a new blog post up and send me a DM. If you heard me on here, feel free. It's not going to be weird. I'm nice. I'll talk to you. I want to talk to you. I want to get to know you. I want to support you, wherever you're at whatever you're doing, and I want to learn from other people. It's not just about me sharing the information. It's definitely a two-way street.

[00:57:44] DS: Yeah, that's awesome. I do want to thank you again, because some of our early interactions, and you sharing some of the content from the podcast was really just critical and kick-starting things and really reaching a wider audience. So, I really appreciate that. And all the work you're doing to help families and patients with hearing loss and other professionals around the world, like you're really doing great work, and I'm so appreciative to have you on our team. 

[00:58:05] LC: That's so nice of you to say. Thank you so much.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[00:58:11] DS: That's all for today. Thank you so much for listening, subscribing, and rating. This podcast is part of an audio course offered for continuing education, through speech therapy PD. Check out the website if you'd like to learn more about the CEU opportunities available for this episode, as well as archived episodes. Just head to speechtherapypd.com/ear. ThatÕs speechtherapypd.com/ear.

[END]
OTE 14		Transcript

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