Roz Thompson
[00:00:10] Welcome to another edition of AWSP TV. [00:00:13] We're here with our guest today Representative Laurie Dolan who's from the 22nd legislative district and she is our torch of leadership award winner for 2019. [00:00:22] We've worked really closely on lots of bills and love our rapport and our relationship and just two years of time times so we're really happy to honor you with the award and to have you here to talk about your background and the upcoming legislative session. [00:00:34] Give us a little bit of information about your background.

Rep. Laurie Dolan
[00:00:37] OK. [00:00:37] Before I talk about my background I would like to look directly at the camera to the principles out there today. [00:00:43] It is such an honor to be selected for this award. [00:00:47] As you hear my background you'll know that I spent most of my most my life with the Spokane Public School supervising school principals. [00:00:56] So I probably know better than most people out there the importance of the role that you play. [00:01:01] So to be honored by AWSP for this award is so meaningful to me and I just want to thank you. [00:01:08] Now my background. [00:01:09] Yeah. [00:01:09] Yeah. [00:01:10] OK. [00:01:10] So that you're back. [00:01:11] So I started teaching back in 1973. [00:01:14] Yes I'm really that old. [00:01:16] And I was teaching first grade in Spokane at a school. [00:01:20] Bancroft Elementary that had 97 percent mainly free lunch students. [00:01:25] So at 21 years old I learned early on with deep deep poverty looked like and spent the rest of my career even now that I'm in the legislature doing a lot with families who have all sorts of social emotional educational needs. [00:01:41] And to me that's where I've really enjoyed the honor of being in this great profession that we share. [00:01:48] So after teaching first grade I started teaching special ed and I was teaching special ed in a middle income school. [00:01:55] And what I learned early on that is that special ed. [00:02:01] Really when you compare it to deep poverty the special ed kids looked like geniuses compared to the regular ed kids I was teaching that we're in deep poverty. [00:02:11] So that was an aha moment just as I was going to school and getting my master's degree in special ed to realize that the impact of deep poverty really is across all all schools and we need to pay attention to that. [00:02:26] I taught special ed for a couple of years then I supervised special ed personnel like Otis PTSD special ed teachers and then I ended up going back after the Spokane teachers strike that I was one of the leaders in in 1979 and ended up on the management side of the table. [00:02:44] I decided to get a p HD in organizational leadership my superintendents credentials. [00:02:50] And so I did that all guns at university and then I started supervising school principals and in Spokane depending on how much money we had any given year we'd have three or four what we called Area directors didn't want to call us assistant superintendents because the Spokane constituents would think that we're spending too much money. [00:03:07] So we were area directors and I had typically I had 16 elementary schools two middle schools and two high schools that I was responsible for that were under my umbrella and I was the person who intervened the parent phone calls from all those schools to the school board in the superintendent. [00:03:25] I was the gatekeeper there. [00:03:27] And I learned a lot that helped me parenting my own children which is the only behavior I can control is my own. [00:03:36] And I think all of us who are in those administrative jobs need to get very good at what we called in the olden days cognitive coaching where you where you work with staff and then you help them see their path forward. [00:03:50] And so once I knew that my my life became a lot easier and what I learned is in most of my schools we had great principals who could solve everything and in the few schools where we had maybe new principals or principals who didn't have the same relationship building skills I spend a little more time in those schools. [00:04:11] So it's the same thing principals know when they work with teachers. [00:04:14] Right. [00:04:16] So I do want it here after a while yeah okay. [00:04:18] Now you're involved in politics so now being involved in politics so yeah I retired after 30 years in Spokane and I had run for political office a couple of times there in a district that had not elected a Democrat since 1932. [00:04:32] I always tell people if you want to run for office it's better to run in a place where people agree with your politics. [00:04:39] And when I retired Chris Gregoire was just becoming governor and she called me up and asked if I would move to Olympia and become her policy director. [00:04:48] I actually didn't understand what the job was. [00:04:50] But we were ready for a new adventure. [00:04:52] She hates it when I say that makes me feel better about what I did. [00:04:55] So we said sure let's do so. [00:04:58] So I turned to my husband and said I need to go to Olympia. [00:05:02] I slipped three more nights in my own house picked up five business suits moved to Olympia. [00:05:07] It was rainy. [00:05:08] It was dark and I was working all the time because I had to hire twenty six new people before the session started. [00:05:13] The next week but coming out of the Spokane Public Schools. [00:05:17] I know how to hire people right. [00:05:18] I spent a lot of years hiring great principals. [00:05:21] So I put all these little hiring teams in place and we got it done. [00:05:24] And it was really interesting because I'd been in a world of unions and I'm in a world that you work at the pleasure of the governor. [00:05:32] So that was interesting. [00:05:34] It was interesting to take my skill set and see if I could use it in the new venue which works great. [00:05:40] The skill set of doing administration and public education converts really well to almost any job you'd want to go to. [00:05:46] And we set up a great policy team so I did that for four years and then I have this disease called multiple myeloma. [00:05:54] It's a fatal blood cancer and I had one stem cell transplant in Spokane and then the cancer came back in 2008 and I ended up with the second stem cell transplant stem cell transfer and transplant. [00:06:07] And so I'm thinking you know if I'm going to be dead in a couple of years I should go play. [00:06:11] So I decided to leave that job in the polls as a policy director and go play with my husband which we did really well for nine years. [00:06:20] When Chris ragdoll decided to run for the Superintendent of Public Instruction several my friends said Chris was leaving his job. [00:06:27] We think you should take it. [00:06:29] And I had never thought about getting back into another job. [00:06:34] That's a big job. [00:06:35] But the more I thought about it I thought I'm not done yet. [00:06:39] And that was right when McCleary was happening and I'm reading all of these articles in the newspaper about how. [00:06:46] The legislature thought the fix for McCleary was getting rid of salary schedules. [00:06:51] And I'm thinking oh my god I need to be there. [00:06:55] So at that point time decided to run for Chris Reynolds job and did that one again. [00:07:01] I now live in a place where people's politics are like mine and have been in the legislature now for three years. [00:07:07] Great. [00:07:08] Great.

Roz Thompson
[00:07:09] Well that is awesome. [00:07:10] That's a great background. [00:07:10] Good. [00:07:11] One of our, you know, funding is a big issue for us. [00:07:14] But also stopping the churn of the principal's job. [00:07:19] And when we look at national research that says one in four principals are in the same building after five years we know that that's costly in terms of the turnover and it costs money and time and relationships and impact student learning. [00:07:32] So how how do you see the role of the principal that's changed in the last 20 years maybe since you've been out of education and in politics and then how do we stop that churn. [00:07:43] That's one of our missions that we're passionate about.

Rep. Laurie Dolan
[00:07:46] So that's probably the greatest question right now. [00:07:53] The principal's job, in fact I laughed, frankly, when I filled out your questionnaire you sent me because it said, what's the role the principal? [00:07:59] And I put something in there like, what's not the role of the principal? [00:08:03] I mean the role the principal is huge and it gets bigger every day because life gets more and more complex. [00:08:10] I think one of the main ways you help principals succeed in their jobs and want to stay is by mentoring them. [00:08:20] The principal's job is lonely. [00:08:23] And if you've been a teacher all this time now you decide to be a principal you come in with two thoughts one that every teacher is as good as you were and two you don't realize that you're now the sole leader in a building which becomes kind of lonely when you realize you're really not. [00:08:40] You're part of the team but you also have this role you need to play that separate from the team. [00:08:44] And I think that the mentoring is what helps new principals get through that. [00:08:49] It probably helps principals who have been in the job for a long time get through it. [00:08:54] Right. [00:08:54] Principals always are talking to one another. [00:08:57] And I think that's very helpful for them to get through things. [00:09:01] The professional network professional network. [00:09:03] Yeah. [00:09:03] And then relationships these jobs are more about relationships than anything else. [00:09:10] The we can teach people be good teachers. [00:09:13] It's a complex set of skills but we can teach it. [00:09:17] We can teach people to be good principals. [00:09:19] But I think if you're not kind of innately blessed with the ability to build relationships with people. [00:09:25] These jobs are really really hard. [00:09:27] And right along with that is I think a good sense of humor because these tubs are really really hard. [00:09:34] And in a good sense of humor helps you get through that and liking people like enjoying people little people and adults just enjoying people and the diversity of people is also another way that helps you get through. [00:09:50] Yeah but we all know that there are circumstances that happen in a school in a principal's life that are just damn hard. [00:09:57] And at that point in time I think you need all sorts of supports around you to help you through that. [00:10:02] And if you have an administration in your district that values principals and listens to principals voices that makes a big difference in stopping the churn because if you really feel like you're valued and heard that's what we all want right. [00:10:15] So those things I'm going to talk a bit about money. [00:10:19] Oh great. [00:10:19] Money is helpful. [00:10:20] We all like a good paycheck. [00:10:23] And I think right now I know another one of your questions was What do we do about principal salaries. [00:10:28] Unfortunately what happens just the way bargaining takes place this teacher salaries always get bargain first and then principal salaries are not so much an afterthought but it certainly happens after the fact. [00:10:40] And I think right now and with what we've seen happen with teacher salaries and the bargaining around the state there's probably a lot of principal salaries that need to catch up. [00:10:48] Yeah. [00:10:49] So that there's more of a difference between if you're going to be the sole leader you need to get paid more than if you're the sixth grade teacher.

Roz Thompson
[00:10:56] So lovely. [00:10:58] That's great. [00:10:58] Thank you for addressing that. [00:11:00] I love what you said to you about the mentorship and helping support principals in their job. [00:11:05] I know that WPI in their legislative requests have has put in money to support the mentoring not only of teachers but if brand new principal. [00:11:13] Right. [00:11:14] So that's awesome. [00:11:15] What else do you see out there for the legislative session in 2020 that would be important not only for you know the role of the principals but for education. [00:11:24] It's coming. [00:11:27] I think that I sense there is a lot of legislators that feel we need to do more with student mental health care. [00:11:36] And.

Rep. Laurie Dolan
[00:11:37] We we didn't get to that anytime you change a prototypical model think dollar signs. [00:11:43] That's a huge investment to make any small change to that prototypical model. [00:11:48] But I do think there is a hunger to do something about that. [00:11:53] And what that looks like I'm not sure W. [00:11:56] I know had a proposal last year that they had different kinds of jobs that would satisfy that social worker nurse counselor. [00:12:06] They had about four or five I think in there and let schools choose what kind they needed. [00:12:12] You know there's a lot of good thinking in that proposal. [00:12:17] So maybe something like that. [00:12:18] But I do think there's a hunger to do something right. [00:12:21] I have a hunger because of my school safety bill. [00:12:23] Yeah. [00:12:23] To actually get that fully funded because even though the bill passed through the legislature that called for three positions in each educational service district. [00:12:33] So ultimately they'd be 27 positions. [00:12:36] And by the time it got to the end it only funded one position. [00:12:40] So yesterday we did a press conference. [00:12:42] Many people might have seen it where we were asking for two more positions which would be the mental health suicide prevention person and then a person who would bring all the people that necessary to the table to help with both threat assessment and making sure that we have all the community resources available. [00:12:59] Schoolchildren as well.

Roz Thompson
[00:13:00] So there's nine positions now that you want any GST and this wouldn't have to more GST to help coordinate that system for school safety.

Rep. Laurie Dolan
[00:13:08] And the reason we did that through the ESD is in looking at the research about school safety. [00:13:14] And God forbid mass shootings when mass shootings occur. [00:13:18] Some people think they happen like inner city schools. [00:13:22] The reality is mass shootings happen in. [00:13:25] Suburban white communities. [00:13:28] That's where they happen the most. [00:13:30] And they often happen when a student's been expelled and the school district's thinking the schools thinking that students are bar. [00:13:37] We don't have to worry about that student what happens because no help is given to that student in our old model. [00:13:44] Oftentimes they go home they're angry. [00:13:46] They have huge mental health issues going on. [00:13:49] They often steal their parent's guns and sometimes shoot their parents first and then return to the school. [00:13:55] So expelling students doesn't actually solve the problem. [00:13:58] And with what we did with the safety bill and the threat assessment training is not only would we be helping the kids that are still in the school but we would be putting some services around the kids getting expelled to make sure that there's some help given there.

Roz Thompson
[00:14:11] Well what you said yesterday at the press conference is was so lovely. [00:14:16] It echoes what you've just said today about relationships and that's what we're talking about is having adults in the buildings to develop relationships with kids and having enough adults in the regions to help coordinate community and school resources.

Rep. Laurie Dolan
[00:14:30] Right. [00:14:30] I think the basis of school safety just like the basis of schools in general is that relationship. [00:14:37] Right. [00:14:37] And if every kid could have an adult in that building that they could go to if they needed help or an adult is kind of checking on them. [00:14:44] Schools would be a lot safer. [00:14:46] Kids would be able to learn better. [00:14:48] That's kind of my goal. [00:14:50] Yeah great.

Roz Thompson
[00:14:51] That's lovely. [00:14:52] Well we are restructuring ourselves here at ADP to be more regionally focused and I think there's a great efficiency to how we can support that principal leadership role and the connection to district support and the connection to building support and the connection to community support. [00:15:07] So I'm I'm hoping that as we keep talking about this that we can work on systems that will help. [00:15:13] I think in a really efficient way support that leadership so that our schools are a strong and supportive as they can be for all the kids that's there.

Rep. Laurie Dolan
[00:15:21] So that's kind of where I started out in my relationship with principals because I had specific schools that I was in charge of for 13 years. [00:15:28] So I knew I mean I could follow kids all the way through. [00:15:31] I knew the principals really well. [00:15:33] And sometimes it's as simple as a principal calling up saying to come have a cup of coffee with me. [00:15:38] Yeah.

Roz Thompson
[00:15:39] I need somebody to talk about I just need somebody to talk to I can talk freely.

Rep. Laurie Dolan
[00:15:43] And it was more that than anything which is the cognitive coaching thing again you know letting people talk through the answers most most people actually know the answers in their own head they just need to get the words out of their own head and bounce it off somebody else and then they'll say thank you for your help.

Roz Thompson
[00:15:59] And I'll say you know I didn't do any of it. [00:16:02] You did. [00:16:02] I just like to listen to me and ask some questions and you have the answer. [00:16:06] Yeah.

Rep. Laurie Dolan
[00:16:08] Which is actually the joy of the job.

Roz Thompson
[00:16:09] Yeah well there's a lot of joys in the job and I know a lot of our principals absolutely love it wouldn't change a thing about their job. [00:16:15] So thank you for your supportive principals. [00:16:17] But I want to end I have to one more question. [00:16:20] I need to know we ask is that everybody who's your favorite principal personally maybe you've had your kids have had just a story from.

Rep. Laurie Dolan
[00:16:29] So. [00:16:30] So you asked me that question in the questionnaire. [00:16:33] Yeah. [00:16:33] And I knew right away who my favorite principal was. [00:16:36] And I thought I'm not sure I can actually put fly but I'm going to tell you why. [00:16:39] OK. [00:16:40] OK. [00:16:40] So when I first start teaching again I'm 21. [00:16:43] I have never seen deep deep poverty. [00:16:45] I mean I grew up in a home where we had. [00:16:48] Kind of a middle class home where we had food on the table heat. [00:16:51] We didn't take vacations and then money for vacations. [00:16:53] But we had the basics covered. [00:16:55] So that's what I thought life was.

Roz Thompson
[00:16:57] And now I'm dealing with little kids who oftentimes are parents might just disappear. [00:17:01] And I find out this little person has been on their own for the past three days. [00:17:05] And so that was a culture I had to get used to. [00:17:10] And this principal was an experienced principal his name was Ray Clift and he he knew when to let you try it on your own. [00:17:19] And he knew when to ask more questions so you could think through some deeper answers. [00:17:25] And one day at the beginning of the year I had this one little girl I team taught so we had 60 children two teachers now and this little girl is one of those kids that has great executive function. [00:17:37] Like she. [00:17:38] She had her life planned. [00:17:40] She came from poverty but she was always clean. [00:17:43] Her clothes were always ironed. [00:17:45] It was before a lot of permanent press. [00:17:47] She always looked magnificent. [00:17:49] So one day I had the kids were in there learning centers and I was teaching a reading group and suddenly I get this whiff.

Rep. Laurie Dolan
[00:17:55] Of something's wrong in this. [00:17:57] Oh dear.

Roz Thompson
[00:17:58] And so I go back to check on her it was easy to follow the with and this poor little girl had been sick and she'd had diarrhea all over her red tights. [00:18:08] So now I have 60 kids in the classroom and this little child who is humiliated that this has happened. [00:18:14] I go down to break lift Mr. [00:18:16] Clifton.

Rep. Laurie Dolan
[00:18:16] I say this is the situation. [00:18:18] What are we gonna do and he goes That's easy. [00:18:21] We haven't had a fire drill yet this month. [00:18:23] OK you go back and sit with her tell your teammate to get the six kids out and I'm going to ring the fire drill bell. [00:18:30] So I go back to the classroom. [00:18:32] The bell rings everybody clears about. [00:18:34] I walk her down to the office we call her mom. [00:18:36] Nobody was the wiser and she knew I didn't go back and clean up the piano better but that's kind of a real life story of.

Roz Thompson
[00:18:45] What principals do. [00:18:46] How do you define that. [00:18:48] I mean they just have this ability to know what to do in any given moment. [00:18:52] That's lovely.

Rep. Laurie Dolan
[00:18:53] That's a great story. [00:18:54] It's a good story. [00:18:55] My gosh. [00:18:56] That's great. [00:18:56] Well thank you so much for sharing your time and your stories and your work and your you know the passion that you have to help each and every child is very apparent in the work that you do in the legislature. [00:19:08] And there's more work to do. [00:19:09] I know you're not what I do more work to do.

Roz Thompson
[00:19:12] But thanks for putting in the work and everything I do have to tell you at 67 years old. [00:19:16] It's a joy to have this job. [00:19:18] Because you kind of know when to get worried about something and when to say this will work its way out.

Rep. Laurie Dolan
[00:19:24] And having that actual knowledge of schools and the people in the schools is so helpful. [00:19:31] Good good.

Roz Thompson
[00:19:33] So that I agree. [00:19:34] And again it's my honor to have this award. [00:19:36] I'm really thrilled to give it to you.

Rep. Laurie Dolan
[00:19:38] Thank you. [00:19:38] Good. [00:19:39] Thank you so much. [00:19:40] All right. [00:19:40] Thanks everybody for joining us. [00:19:41] More next time on AWSP TV.