Kurt Hatch [00:00:09] Well welcome everyone. [00:00:11] I'm really glad to have some special guests here today to talk about an important topic. [00:00:16] As many of you know recently are school discipline laws had some significant changes made to them. [00:00:22] So our partners here are going to share some perspective on how to react to these changes. [00:00:31] And from AWSP’s perspective I'll be sharing some things with you as well. [00:00:36] My name's Kurt Hatch I'm one of the associate directors here at AWSP. [00:00:41] I'm going to turn it over right now to Dana Anderson who's gonna be our moderator today. [00:00:48] We’ll do some introductions to see who's involved in the video and we hope this is helpful for you at all different levels of your school system. [00:00:55] So thanks Dana for being here. Dana Anderson [00:00:57] Great Kurt. [00:00:57] Thank you so very much. [00:00:58] And thanks to our guests for joining us today. [00:01:00] As you mentioned this is a very important topic and we want to provide some support to our school districts and our staff around the state. [00:01:06] So my name is Dana Anderson. [00:01:08] I'm Superintendent Capital Region ESD 113. [00:01:11] It's my pleasure to serve as moderator here today and joining with me are my friends and colleagues from around the state. [00:01:16] We'll start just right to my right. Kim Fry [00:01:18] Hello my name is Kim Fry and I am the Superintendent of Rochester School District and I'm representing WASA today Association of School Administrators. Dana Anderson [00:01:28] Thanks Kim. Abigail Westbrook [00:01:29] I'm Abigail Westbrook. [00:01:30] I'm the Director of Policy and Legal Services for WSSDA, the Washington State School Directors Association. Dana Anderson [00:01:38] Great Abigail. [00:01:38] Thank you. [00:01:39] And Kurt as well thanks for joining us. [00:01:40] So now you're gonna get great perspective across the system today. [00:01:44] We're gonna start with an overview of policy from the school director's perspective. [00:01:48] Dig into that a little bit from implementation side on the district piece and then look at what the implications are for our principals across the state. [00:01:55] Hopefully have a little bit of interplay back and forth as we go. [00:01:59] So Abigail we're gonna start with you. [00:02:00] So congratulations you're first off as we go. [00:02:04] You know we’ve been doing a lot of work in preparation for this. [00:02:07] I know last year some model policy and some policies have come out now. [00:02:10] So tell us a little bit about what you think are the three top issues districts should be paying attention to as they look at the policies. Abigail Westbrook [00:02:18] Thank you. [00:02:18] Yes it's important to get this message out. [00:02:21] So the three most important things to know is that there's a new model policy for student discipline, new model policy and procedure. [00:02:32] It's required. [00:02:34] It's all new and it needs your attention. [00:02:38] By you I mean school boards and the school board superintendent team and the community. Dana Anderson [00:02:43] So those three big things that are really important. [00:02:45] It's there's new stuff out there that's required. [00:02:47] You better be paying attention. [00:02:49] That's the main focus right. [00:02:50] Right. [00:02:51] So tell us a little bit more about the required part of this. Abigail Westbrook [00:02:54] Sure. [00:02:55] So it is required by law. [00:02:57] We've changed the categorization. [00:02:59] It's now essential both the statute and the WAC’s require this policy and not just a policy but one that has several specific components. [00:03:09] So I want people to know that surely you've had a student discipline policy previously. [00:03:15] But you want to make sure that you have one that's compliant for the WAC’s today. [00:03:20] And the model policy has all those boxes checked it will get you in good shape. Dana Anderson [00:03:25] Okay. [00:03:26] Are there aspects of the previous policy they really need to be focusing in on in terms of replacing what's been already adopted? Abigail Westbrook [00:03:33] Thank you it's a good question because as we looked at this we had to retire another policy. [00:03:41] That's formally 30 to 40 in that policy talked about sanctions and although that was helpful for districts to know what what are some guidelines for sanctions. [00:03:53] It doesn't fit into the current legal framework where you have a policy setting out your exclusionary sanctions for a student. [00:04:02] As opposed to approaching it on an individualized basis, so that one is now retired. Dana Anderson [00:04:07] So there are existing policies that need to look at and who he said required. [00:04:13] How is this going to get monitored? [00:04:14] Or who's going to check to see that school districts have actually done the work? Abigail Westbrook [00:04:17] Really important question. [00:04:19] OSPI, as you know, they do the consolidated policy review and I know that one of the things they're looking at in particular are districts discipline policies. [00:04:32] So looking to see if it is up to date and has some of these specific new components included. Dana Anderson [00:04:39] So since OSPI has rulemaking authority here they're going to be looking to see that districts have actually done the work in terms of policy adoption. Abigail Westbrook [00:04:46] Exactly. Dana Anderson [00:04:47] Yeah excellent. [00:04:48] So let's dig into that policy just a little bit. [00:04:50] I know some of the rules that originated with this whole concept that we've had disproportionality and discipline outcomes. [00:04:56] So talk a little bit about how the policy and the law maybe reflect that focus on disproportionality. Abigail Westbrook [00:05:02] Thank you. [00:05:03] That's so important HB 1541 was really to address disproportionality. [00:05:10] In this newest policy it's not just a small revisions and track changes. [00:05:16] It's all new. [00:05:17] It keeps the same number but it has new components. [00:05:22] It is meant to reflect that fresh tone of what discipline means today. Dana Anderson [00:05:30] Discipline. [00:05:30] That is something that we need to be able to define. [00:05:33] I knew it when I experienced it, but I'm not sure if it was defined well for me. [00:05:38] So I know it's a part of what is expected. [00:05:40] So talk about the definitions that districts need to look at and particularly discipline. Abigail Westbrook [00:05:45] Yes, it's a great example that the new procedure, the model procedure includes a lot of the definitions from the WAC. [00:05:54] A great example of an important new term is discipline itself. [00:05:59] So discipline is defined as any response to a behavioral circumstance. [00:06:07] I didn't quite get the words there but you get the idea and the notion being that discipline no longer means punitive necessarily. [00:06:16] It can be any response. [00:06:17] It can be a supportive response. [00:06:20] And while districts can use exclusionary discipline when they need to for safety. [00:06:28] That's not the first go to. [00:06:30] The first go to is to think of other forms of discipline, which are those more supportive means such as maybe teaching social emotional skills. Dana Anderson [00:06:40] That's great. [00:06:41] Yeah. [00:06:42] So discipline has multiple dimensions. [00:06:44] The responses open to districts are a lot broader perhaps sometimes than we think of in terms of how we implement those procedures. [00:06:51] So you mentioned terms of guidance. [00:06:53] It's important for districts to pay attention to this; something that they should be really focusing in on. [00:06:58] You want to unpack that just a little bit more. Abigail Westbrook [00:06:59] You bet. [00:07:00] That was the item number three it needs your attention. [00:07:04] So one I want folks to know that the model policy well it has all the components you need. [00:07:11] It also needs that individualized attention from districts. [00:07:15] There are areas where they will need to customize their policy. [00:07:21] For example, they are required to set forth in their policy what kinds of alternative educational services they will provide for a student who is experiencing exclusionary discipline and list that out of a policy. [00:07:38] Another notion that we talked a moment ago about other forms of discipline. [00:07:44] The policy itself needs to unpack that a little bit about what is as as a district what are they committing to do and to use as other forms of discipline other than exclusion. [00:07:57] So these are some areas that really need district attention. [00:08:01] The other part of that that's so significant is that the whole statute really put a big emphasis on family and community involvement. [00:08:11] So it's not something that the board just does on its own. [00:08:17] It's something where they ask for input from the community, receive that input and then you take good data and it'll come back again. [00:08:29] It's not one and done. [00:08:31] It's here's your policy that you've developed with community input and then based on data here are the revisions that you make to keep it really a partnership with your community. Dana Anderson [00:08:42] So like all good policy adoption it's not just here's the pop model policy adopted as written just change the color of the background here for these highlighted areas. [00:08:51] But focus on what to customize and it's not a one and done thing. [00:08:54] It's something you need to really be paying attention to and working on and a kind of constant review process. Abigail Westbrook [00:09:00] Yes. [00:09:00] And as mentioned about that data also I think there's an important place here for boards and superintendents to think about getting quality data from their teachers. [00:09:12] We all know how busy teachers are but one of the goals here is to be tracking classroom exclusions and why and who and then monitoring that data and using it to get better. Dana Anderson [00:09:25] That's good. [00:09:27] So where do districts go to find this model policy in some of the resources available from the school directors? Abigail Westbrook [00:09:32] You will find it on the WSSDA website and look under featured policies. [00:09:39] Our website has lots of portions as many Web sites do so get to the WSSDA website and then under policy and legal, look for featured policies, you'll find this 3241 Student Discipline. [00:09:54] Another policy that's there is 3220 Student Rights and Responsibilities. [00:10:01] Now that one is not a required policy but there's some important information in there that we think will help districts as well. [00:10:08] And that's also on the website. Dana Anderson [00:10:09] All right thanks so much. [00:10:11] So the three key points again. [00:10:12] What do we want districts to know. Abigail Westbrook [00:10:15] Number one, it's required. [00:10:17] Number two, it's all new. [00:10:19] And number three, it needs your attention. Dana Anderson [00:10:21] OK very good. [00:10:22] Thank you so very much. [00:10:23] So from the supports from School Directors Association and then resources available to that list pivot to a district leader who is looking at implementing this work. [00:10:31] So Kim talk about some of the steps that maybe you've gone through or that you'd think school district leaders should think about as they're preparing to implement these policies and procedures. Kim Fry [00:10:40] Thanks Dana. [00:10:40] There are numerous other steps as Abigail has already talked about getting that policy and those procedures in place is paramount. [00:10:49] And that will require some education for your board and it will require community input. [00:10:57] Getting that scheduled and the number of readings that you have to go through. [00:11:02] Paying attention to your timelines to ensure that this policy is in place to meet that July 1st deadline is very important. Dana Anderson [00:11:11] July 1 so if you're backward planning from there you better be on it right away right now. Kim Fry [00:11:15] Now is the time. [00:11:17] So that is a primary step in the process. [00:11:22] Other steps are not. [00:11:23] It's not just the board in the community that needs professional development. [00:11:26] What are these changes to the law but everybody in our system. [00:11:30] So teachers and principals and support staff all need to know. [00:11:34] I think not only what are the legal changes but what's the research behind those changes. [00:11:40] Because once people understand that these changes are really rooted in strong research around equity and around what really changes students behavior. [00:11:51] People feel much better, easier to accept those changes when you understand that they're really based on a firm foundation of good research. Dana Anderson [00:11:58] So you're looking at something this could be a compliance activity right. [00:12:01] I mean we've supposed to adopt a policy we've adopted a policy we're supposed to have certain procedures in place we have in place. [00:12:07] So you're really talking about getting to the heart of the change and trying to make it beyond compliance. [00:12:13] So here are some thoughts on how to help that maybe a little bit? Kim Fry [00:12:16] Absolutely. [00:12:16] I see this is just an amazing opportunity for us. [00:12:19] We can be frustrated by top down changes, but we can also look at this as just an amazing opportunity for us to really fundamentally change our practice. [00:12:33] Do it in a way that the outcome is eventually for kids, or higher graduation rates. [00:12:39] Graduating students who not only have the academic skills they need for success but the social emotional learning skills that they need for success. Dana Anderson [00:12:49] I've had the pleasure of working beside you and watch you work for a number of years. [00:12:52] I know you're a systems thinker so talk a little bit about the systems capacity building you would do both at the internal level and maybe at the external level within your systems. Kim Fry [00:13:02] We talked about the compliance work so making sure that everybody understands what are the required changes? [00:13:10] Making sure that handbooks and discipline letters and all of those things reflect these changes. [00:13:20] But beyond that it really is helping people that understand this work. [00:13:26] Getting some foundational professional development is important. [00:13:30] I know many districts have already started this work. [00:13:33] But understanding cultural competency, helping people to understand classroom and informed practices and the ACES work, adverse childhood experience all of those things are a good foundation. [00:13:47] Those will go a long way in helping us get our systems ready to make these and not just surface level changes but second order changes. Dana Anderson [00:13:56] I was at the county superintendent's meeting with you recently and when the teams were sharing out some of the strategies and the work that they've been doing in the background to get ready for this. [00:14:04] I heard a lot of the systems that people have been working on a Multi Tiered Systems of Support, Positive Behavior Interventions, adverse childhood experiences trauma informed care. [00:14:15] It really brings a lot of those things together doesn't it gives a focus place. [00:14:20] Talk a little bit about how your teams of thought about that perhaps and how you're bringing that background work into this context. Kim Fry [00:14:27] I think it's important as educational leaders to always help people connect the dots. [00:14:31] Sometimes people don't see the connection between the past work we've done in all those areas and this new law. [00:14:39] So helping people to really understand how it all fits together is going to be of primary importance to this. [00:14:44] I think other ways that we can help people understand that this work is as Abigail talked about really putting the data in front of people helping people understand where are we now where is our disproportionality in our discipline. [00:14:57] I mean our individual schools across our districts, across the state. [00:15:02] As we implement this work how is that changing? [00:15:08] Sharing the success stories with people I think is one way that will really help. [00:15:13] I think another thing that we can do is to understand that changes to classroom management disciplinary procedures within the classroom is something that people really feel personally invested in. Dana Anderson [00:15:30] My classroom, my practice. Kim Fry [00:15:31] Absolutely. [00:15:33] I think we have to be sensitive to that and provide opportunities for people to talk about that and how these changes make them feel and what their struggles are with these changes. [00:15:48] Provide a space for that make that regular part of what obstacles are we facing and how can we overcome them together. [00:15:58] Abigail also talked about the need to customize those policies and procedures. [00:16:02] Providing opportunities for as many people to have a voice in that process as possible will be really important. [00:16:11] So when we're looking at what are those other forms of discipline we need input from our staff what are appropriate other forms of discipline for students at various age levels. [00:16:21] It can look very different for what's an other forms of discipline for a kindergartener for example than a high school student. Dana Anderson [00:16:27] Yeah that's good. [00:16:28] I'm smiling because I'm thinking about how connect the dots as one of your primary things it's a pillar of what you do as a leader. [00:16:34] Like I'm helping you make the connections between what's gone on in the past. [00:16:38] The work that we've been focusing on and how this new opportunity connects to that. [00:16:42] So that's great to see it in practice. Kim Fry [00:16:45] The other thing I think it's really important for the whole system is for us to understand what is our Why for this work? [00:16:52] In it's part of that connecting the dots. [00:16:54] What does this have to do with our mission as a school district. [00:16:58] Our core values and our strategic plan. [00:17:01] How does this fit with that? [00:17:03] When we can help people to understand how those things are connected, it too will help us make this transition more smoothly. Dana Anderson [00:17:11] Thanks Kim. [00:17:12] So we've heard from the policy layer from the School Directors Association, from the systems layer of a district from a district leader so curt principal time. [00:17:21] So talk a little bit about the role of principals and how principals, assistant principals how they can actually leverage these to demonstrate leadership, and you’d like to see happen in their schools? Kurt Hatch [00:17:32] I think one of the things — I might just be underscoring some of the points that Kim already made is, just remembering the intent of the changes or the Why, and couple that with your Why of your school, your own practice. [00:17:48] Really the Why as I understand it is to keep kids in school as long as possible and not use exclusion as a tool as we've done in the past. [00:18:01] It's been shown that it's had some overuse and some inconsistency in its use. [00:18:08] So just to examine that a little bit and define it in terms of what is discipline versus what is punishment. [00:18:18] There's just a vast difference between the two. [00:18:24] I think that they've been confused or conflated a bit. [00:18:28] And punishment being used as a teaching tool when it's really not an effective tool. [00:18:35] For systems to examine are we doing things that really fall under the umbrella of punishment versus discipline can be a very powerful conversation to have. [00:18:45] It can also help tie into our core values as a system and examine if our practices reflect core values such as the classroom being the best place for all students. [00:19:00] So are we doing things that help keep them there and point them back into that direction? [00:19:06] Even if they needed to be removed for a certain period of time for some discipline which is teaching versus punishment. Dana Anderson [00:19:14] That's great. [00:19:15] Kurt, one of the things I always impressed me about the way you think is that you think about the cultural change of a school. [00:19:20] You're saying we're not just doing things just because we're trying to do something that we have to comply with. [00:19:25] We're really trying to change the culture in classrooms and across the school system. [00:19:30] And you talked about systems too. [00:19:32] So if we're going to have an effective system that has to be built in a structure like multi tiered system of support. [00:19:39] So maybe share a little bit about your perspective on that level of principals as a shared effort. Kurt Hatch [00:19:46] Again as Kim said this is a real opportunity for us to shift how we essentially do school. [00:19:53] To look at different systems of being proactive and preventative, and multi tiered systems of support or MTSS has proven to be extremely effective as a model for how to do school. [00:20:07] But it takes some deep change, second order change to really shift the systems and how we interact. [00:20:15] How adults communicate together around problem solving but MTSS provides a really excellent framework for that. [00:20:24] And so we've all seen the pyramid. [00:20:27] And to simplify MTSS, essentially there's the academic side or RTI but then there's also the the behavior side. [00:20:37] So to integrate those two systems together with really effective communication. [00:20:43] Very effective data collection methods to examine behavior. [00:20:48] For example if there's a school that has a data collection system that doesn't give them very much information about what behavior is occurring and where. [00:21:00] They're trying to track down the motivations for behavior and what kids were doing during the time of the behavior. [00:21:07] Like what the activity was, were they reading math et cetera. [00:21:10] It's very difficult to make proactive decisions and create systems of support that anticipate behaviors. [00:21:17] So things like the school wide information system are called Swiss and it's fairly well known. [00:21:24] That is an excellent data gathering tool. [00:21:28] There's simple methods to even just track time in class and time out of class. [00:21:34] So Susan Barrett who provides a lot of great technical assistance around PBIS has a really simple data collection tool. [00:21:43] That allows people to examine how long our kids out of class based on certain discipline incidences including the time that it takes them to go from the classroom down to the office. [00:21:55] If the system includes kids being sent to the office versus an adult going to the classroom because that can make a difference in literally days of instruction being recaptured by certain tweaks of systems like that. [00:22:09] So having those data gathering tools is a foundational layer to be able to make good decisions through an MTSS Frame. Dana Anderson [00:22:21] That's really helpful. [00:22:23] I think one of the things that you shared earlier is that it's not about punishment. [00:22:28] That's what we're trying to impose a system that has structure, that has a systemic approach, that uses data, that engages people in active problem solving and creating a cultural change. [00:22:38] This is how we do things here. [00:22:40] Part of what I've heard you talk about is that it's not always about discipline and punishment. [00:22:44] That there's other sides of the system to be looking at. [00:22:47] And what we're seeking to do is change behavior. [00:22:49] So talk about the positive side of things. [00:22:52] How people might really incentivize the kind of behaviors we hope to see. Kurt Hatch [00:22:56] What we know about behavior and attempts to modify behaviors is that kids and adults respond when there's positive interventions. [00:23:05] When they're working towards getting something and behavior expectations are made perfectly clear. [00:23:11] There's consistency in expectations. [00:23:14] There's predictability with expectations. [00:23:18] Schools have these different ecologies from one place to another. [00:23:23] The consistency between behavior expectations of how you move in that space or what it looks and sounds like. [00:23:30] To have pro social behaviors in those different environments the more consistent they are for students; that just increases their likelihood dramatically that they will exhibit the pro social behaviors that we're essentially trying to teach them. [00:23:45] Which makes me think of the work from Kent Macintosh and Steve Goodman who continue to remind us that student behavior is really a byproduct of the adult behavior in the environment that we create for them. [00:24:01] So much of this work around PBIS and MTSS is shifting adult behavior. [00:24:07] So it complies with how behavior works and taking teaching and learning stands with behavior. [00:24:16] I can't remember who said it but someone was talking about if kids don't know how to read, we teach them how to read. [00:24:21] if they don't know how to do math, we teach them. [00:24:24] They don't know how to write we teach them. [00:24:26] But if they're not behaving well we exclude them or we punish them. [00:24:31] So it's just a reminder to take a teaching and learning stance with behavior almost more intentionally than we do with academics. [00:24:40] Because I believe that behavior is one of the most complex things that we teach in schools. [00:24:47] I think it's the most challenging thing that we teach because it's emotional. [00:24:52] There's triggers that cause people to change their behavior and we don't see that necessarily with math. [00:24:57] You know if two plus two is four, we kind of know that. [00:25:01] Kids don't go to environments outside of school where they're learning two plus two isn't four. [00:25:06] But that happens with behavior. [00:25:07] So it's quite challenging. [00:25:09] It can be emotional for the adults. [00:25:11] It can trigger adult behavior if there's really unexpected behavior in classrooms. [00:25:17] So I think we have to give ourselves and as school leaders our staff, a sense of grace and understanding that this is really difficult. [00:25:27] But the good news is is there is a science to it. [00:25:30] There's a science to modifying behavior and changing it. [00:25:33] There's a right way of doing it. [00:25:34] There's a best way of doing it. [00:25:37] And we just have to take time to learn those best ways and implement them into our practice. [00:25:45] I also think it's teaching behaviors. [00:25:48] Well it's different in classroom management. [00:25:50] We've all had classroom management classes as we're learning to be teachers and et cetera. [00:25:55] But I don't remember taking a behavior mod class or understanding being taught with the function of behaviors and how to change behavior in ways that are proven. [00:26:08] But that information is out there and it's readily available through things like PBIS dot org. [00:26:14] There's experts out in the field. [00:26:15] Kelsey Schmitz out in the smart center. [00:26:17] We've got folks at OSPI, Josh Lynch that can help. [00:26:22] The Center for improvement of student learning. [00:26:24] Andrea Cobb and Mark McKechnie. [00:26:26] They're all experts in the field and they can help answer some of these questions and take a systemic view. [00:26:33] Systematic view of how to teach systems at work and also help people understand how behavior functions. [00:26:42] So we can treat it in ways that are effective and modify maladaptive behaviors and turn them into pro social behaviors. Dana Anderson [00:26:50] Fantastic. [00:26:50] To see a whole systems integration as you know from the policy layer to the leader layer to cultural change inside of a school setting implementation of systems but really focusing on building capacity across the system so that we can respond more appropriately to the needs that are presenting young people we're serving. [00:27:08] I know that we're not doing a fact or fiction segment here. [00:27:11] But there is concern I think in the field when folks look at the policies that have been recommended or the way that the WAC rules are written that you're going to take away one of the primary tools that I have for these tier 3 kids who are really you know blowing up in the classroom. [00:27:27] So talk a little bit about how folks can respond appropriately the Tier 3 needs when they present. Kurt Hatch [00:27:34] There's a balance because the behaviors are happening right now and we want to have them extinguished and there's systems that work. [00:27:44] There's behavior plans that are very effective and we have resources for that. [00:27:49] I can point people towards them. [00:27:51] So if folks want to email or call I can help support that. [00:27:59] As we're trying to address the Tier 3 behaviors at the same time it's really important to have a foundation of positive behavior intervention supports that you can implement. [00:28:13] You can have some interventions at the Tier 3 level that will likely be impactful. [00:28:19] But without the foundation of Tier 1 PBIS you'll be putting out way more fires than you actually have. [00:28:28] So what PBIS does is it helps kind of calm down a building. [00:28:31] That allows students to comply in ways that you might be surprised at. [00:28:36] Because now they know what the rules of the game are. [00:28:40] They know what it looks and sounds like to move through different parts of the building and If they are incentivized to do that. [00:28:48] If they're taught, and reminded, and then reincentivized. [00:28:54] Most of them will comply, which then allows you some more time to focus on the kids that are truly Tier 3. [00:29:02] There are systems for that, there's ways of interacting with students that have really challenging behaviors. [00:29:09] But again it's through a teaching and learning stance. [00:29:12] It's through patience, consistency, predictability all the adults being on the same team as far as how we address students. [00:29:21] For example, if they're kind of blowing out in class there's ways to talk to a student that's very effective. [00:29:29] So using fewer words than more words. [00:29:32] Even how you position your body when a student is having a tough time regulating their emotional state there's best ways to do that. [00:29:42] So we can help or we can point people in the right direction to put those systems in place; and get the right professional learning. [00:29:49] To help staff feel more comfortable about it and know that there's steps of support that are already in place that they can access. [00:30:04] We will get calls and say we have kids that are just really difficult having really difficult behaviors what do we do? [00:30:11] And one of the first questions is how's PBIS going? [00:30:15] Because I think it was Kelsey Smith or the smart center at UW said we can't intervene our way out of a crummy core, so that core is important. [00:30:25] It's critical to be working on the same things at the same time. Dana Anderson [00:30:30] That's great. [00:30:32] So think about the layers of the system and maybe some of our concluding comments. [00:30:36] A little bit of a conversation. [00:30:39] As a principal what are some things you need from a superintendent or from district leadership and maybe as a superintendent, some things you need from the board or supports from your community, so a bit of a flow just around that. [00:30:50] So you think about what supports do you need? [00:30:53] So that a principal could be most successful in the school and how can the district support you. Kurt Hatch [00:30:57] Yeah, based on my previous experience being in a building and from what I hear from colleagues and I know we're all on the same page with these thoughts. [00:31:07] But I've been in a number of settings where we were leading PBIS implementation and it was more effective in some settings than in others. [00:31:18] And the places that it was most effective is when everybody was doing it, top down left right. [00:31:25] So it was a district wide initiative. [00:31:28] Everybody was talking about it, everybody was monitoring the fidelity of implementation which is critical because there's no such thing as PBIS like, either you're doing it all in or it's not going to have the results that you want. [00:31:42] And so bus drivers, food service, everybody was speaking the same language and utilizing the tools of PBIS and the incentives. [00:31:51] And that was just really a product of an all in approach with district leadership and the resources. [00:31:57] The results were really astounding we were capturing recapturing hundreds of hours of instructional time. [00:32:05] A previous school we no longer use suspensions we just we don't we don't use them anymore. [00:32:11] It took some time, but without PBIS we would not have been able to get to that spot. Dana Anderson [00:32:17] So district wide approach with executive sponsorship and an expectation that that's across the whole system. [00:32:22] Kim what are some things you think you need maybe from your position from principals and school leadership and some things you might need from the border on the governance side of things. Kim Fry [00:32:32] I think from the principal side of it one of the things we need is an open dialogue about where do we need to be really tight across our whole district. [00:32:43] Where does the process that we're going to use. [00:32:47] The primary level. [00:32:48] Absolutely the same as it is at the elementary and middle and high school level where we can be really tight. [00:32:54] And where do we need to have some flexibility there system. [00:32:58] So having dialogue about that. [00:33:00] Talking regularly about what type of support teachers need, district office folks need to hear that. [00:33:06] We need to know what kind of support they're meeting at the building level with how we can best encourage this work and support this work. [00:33:15] And at the community level board level and we need time. [00:33:21] And that understanding that this is a process it's a journey that we are on. [00:33:25] We’ll adopt that policy right away but it's going to take a long time for us to fully embrace every nuance of this change. [00:33:34] In order for it to really have the impact we want it to have in the end. [00:33:37] To keep more kids in school have more kids in classrooms every day learning what they need to be learning to be successful. Dana Anderson [00:33:43] Nice. [00:33:43] Very good. [00:33:45] Abigail, what do you think are some of the things district leaders should be thinking about, some final thoughts I think as we kind of draw this to a close? Abigail Westbrook [00:33:53] The board sets the tone, provides the leadership, but they so need the community. [00:34:03] The community in the big sense of parents and families students but also about their administrators about those school principals. [00:34:13] And so part of that is we talked about collecting that good data getting that back to the board. [00:34:19] That communication. [00:34:20] I really liked what Kim said about time. [00:34:23] This is see change legislation, and so it will take some time. [00:34:28] But I also appreciate that, the time is now. [00:34:34] So really getting all in on this and not just saying oh we have to. [00:34:41] But here's the data, here's our new approach and and doing this in a comprehensive holistic way. [00:34:49] I think that's really the goal and the pieces are there to do it but it's time to roll up the sleeves and get at it right now. Dana Anderson [00:34:57] Nice thank you. [00:34:59] Well Kurt, this concludes our segment panel presentation. [00:35:04] Discipline rules. [00:35:04] But take us home. Kurt Hatch [00:35:05] Yeah. [00:35:06] I know it's final thoughts and maybe if you have some other final thoughts. [00:35:12] In terms of resources that will make sure that we link or provide to people. [00:35:17] I want to make sure that I share those now so people know that it's things that they can seek on our Web site or maybe as part of this production. [00:35:25] But so much about moving from punishment to discipline and putting these systems is helping shift adult mindset around discipline. [00:35:38] There's a great TED talk by Rosemary Allen around school suspensions I'd recommend you checking that out. [00:35:46] It's very powerful. [00:35:48] I've mentioned Kat Macintosh we can point you in his direction for his resources around MTSS integration so RTI PBIS. [00:36:01] Addressing implicit bias in discipline. [00:36:04] We know discipline has to do so much about student teacher relationship. [00:36:09] So we have some resources on how you help with that. [00:36:13] Monitor the impact of student teacher relationships. [00:36:19] Kim you had mentioned ACES earlier around in the trauma informed world. [00:36:24] There's some more great resource that we have that we can point people in the direction of informed resources around classroom management practices or PBIS in the classroom. [00:36:35] So don't be shy, if there's a topic that people want that's out there even if it's not listed we can dig it up and provide some technical support or just some advice. [00:36:47] Yeah I don't know. [00:36:48] Kim if there's some things you want to make sure people get pointed to or even in your system and things that you're doing. Kim Fry [00:36:56] I think some good resources include the results pyramid work. [00:37:02] It's a great resource talking about how do we really change behavior we have to give people experiences. [00:37:10] Looking at that resource for how can we provide experiences for everyone in our system; from community, to teachers, to bus drivers and lunchroom staff how can we give them experiences that would really help them in this transition. [00:37:25] I think another great resource is concerns based on adoption. [00:37:30] We look at network when people have concerns about issues how do we overcome those so they don't become obstacles. [00:37:40] How do we get in front of those thing and be prepared that this is going to bring out some emotional responses in people. [00:37:51] And that's OK. [00:37:52] It's part of the process. [00:37:53] We just need to be prepared for that and provide a lot of opportunity for people that do take care of those concerns in a really healthy way because we all have the same. [00:38:03] We share the same outcome. [00:38:05] From the community, to the board, and district administrators and principals and teachers and all of our support staff. [00:38:14] We all want what's best for kids. [00:38:15] We all want kids to leave our system with the skills they need for success. [00:38:20] And that goes beyond academic. [00:38:23] We need kids to have strong social emotional to be successful. Dana Anderson [00:38:29] This is a change everyone is wrestling with so our entire state is looking at implementation. [00:38:35] Creating networks around common practice. [00:38:38] I see at the county level meeting superintendents having the conversation around how they're managing and leading the work. [00:38:44] I see them empowering task force work across district so they do cross district sharing. [00:38:52] None of us are in this alone. [00:38:54] Engaging in that, reaching out to your associations. [00:38:57] Principals, central office administrators, school board members tapping into the networks of the regional service delivery system that ESD's. [00:39:06] Reaching out to our partners at OSPI we're a shared system with shared resources and sometimes we kind of get blinders on when we're implementing big change. [00:39:14] And we just think, I have to do this. [00:39:17] Pause for a moment and think, How can I reach out. [00:39:20] How can I tap into the resources around me? [00:39:22] How can I learn from the work of others and really accelerate the change process? [00:39:26] Yeah. [00:39:27] So I think there's a lot of opportunity. [00:39:29] Yeah. Kurt Hatch [00:39:29] So rely on people you know, rely on your colleagues, and kind like we're reliant on each other here. [00:39:35] So thank you, Dana for moderating. [00:39:37] I really appreciate it. [00:39:39] And Kim, Abigail thank you for being here. [00:39:41] AWSP really values this partnership. [00:39:45] If there's anybody that needs any other resources, are you're curious about things get a hold of one of us. [00:39:50] Get a hold of your local ESD and let's just continue the conversation. [00:39:54] And as Kim said, keep focusing on students and doing what's right for them. [00:39:58] So thanks for watching. [00:40:03] Take care.