Chris Espeland [00:00:04] I would like to start off with getting our voices of our panelists into the into the space, and we're going to begin with Dr. [00:00:10] Alfredo Artiles. [00:00:12] Welcome, Alfredo. Alfredo Artiles [00:00:13] Thank you, Chris. [00:00:15] It's good to be here. [00:00:16] I'm honored to be part of this conversation. [00:00:18] And I look forward to the conversation with I have some issues with sound so that you invite me to make an opening statement. [00:00:28] OK, thank you for that. [00:00:31] I'm excited to be part of this conversation because of the work that we have been doing for Anom for almost three decades now to engage issues of difference and enhance opportunities for students of all backgrounds through inclusive education systems. [00:00:48] As we know, inclusive education started with incredible aspirations to change educational systems around the world. [00:00:56] Multiple forms of difference were included in that original conceptualization. [00:01:00] And over time we have seen how inclusive education has become increasingly focused on students with special needs and disabilities. [00:01:10] I'm excited to continue that, but I want us to keep in mind the original promise of inclusive education, that it's about all kinds of differences and that it is critical that we think about inclusive education not as the mere transfer of students with any kind of need, whether it is a disability or other forms of needs from one space to another, which is something that we tend to see in discussions and practices of inclusive education. [00:01:36] Inclusion is not always a location. [00:01:39] It's about systems of support and how we embrace very specific assumptions and values to expand opportunity for all learners. [00:01:49] So I want to stress this idea that inclusive education is about transforming systems to be responsive to differences. Chris Espeland [00:01:59] Thank you. [00:02:01] Lauren? Lauren Katzman [00:02:02] I thank you all for having me. [00:02:04] This is an amazing group of people. [00:02:07] My name is Lauren Katzman and the executive director of the Urban Collaborative, which is an organization of about one hundred school districts across the country working as a professional learning community. [00:02:17] And I'm also an associate research professor at ASU. [00:02:21] One question we have is, what does inclusion mean to me? [00:02:24] I want to say I want to build on what Alfredo just said. [00:02:27] If I think of diversity as the presence of difference, and I think if equity is promoting justice, inclusion would be the act of creating those environments that where everybody feels welcomed. [00:02:39] We were also supposed to bring an artifact. [00:02:42] So that's my artifact, my background. [00:02:44] That is a school building in San Diego. [00:02:47] And the other artifact is this group here, because I've worked with almost everybody here for years. [00:02:53] And this is research practice, the arts policy all right here. [00:02:58] And that's what we need to create this this level of change. [00:03:02] Thank you. Chris Espeland [00:03:04] I love that. [00:03:05] Keith? Keith Jones [00:03:09] Hello, everyone, my name is Keith Jones, and before I start, I want to profusely apologize if you hear random dogs barking in the background. [00:03:18] We are still coming out of our post-Katrina hibernation, so please don't call the ASPCA. [00:03:25] My name is Heath Jones. [00:03:27] I am an activist advocate, policy wonk. [00:03:31] My artifact is myself with a passion for this change in terms of inclusion, not to not to be redundant, but it is to me, it is the location. [00:03:42] It is who is present for students to understand that if you show up intentionally in the space for education, that you are coming with a broader vision and hoping to impart information and knowledge so that humans at the end of that exchange not only is enriched for themselves, but better for society. [00:04:04] So that's what I hope that we can have this discussion on today. [00:04:06] Thank you. Chris Espeland [00:04:08] Thank you, Keith. [00:04:10] Dan? Dan Habib [00:04:13] Hi, everybody, I'm Dan Habib. [00:04:14] I'm a documentary filmmaker and project director at the Institute on Disability at the University of New Hampshire. [00:04:21] I think it's it's helpful to talk about what we mean by disability when we start a conversation like this. [00:04:26] And I have a really great friend and colleague, Mike Wehmeier at Kansas, who talks about disability being the gap between a person's abilities and the demands of their environment. [00:04:36] And so the artifact I want to share is a picture, two pictures. [00:04:41] The first one is Samuel, who's joining us here in a minute, my son in Cooperstown, New York. [00:04:46] Now, this environment is not a very accessible environment, as you can see from these steps. [00:04:50] So the gap between Samuel's abilities using wheelchair and the environment is great. [00:04:56] And then you switch to an environment like Concord, New Hampshire, where we live, where they've completely redesigned downtown to make it completely barrier free and accessible. [00:05:04] The disability has shrunk or at least the ramifications of disability. [00:05:07] So what I guess what I would say is if we can look at education as how do we shrink that gap through universal design for learning, through differentiated instruction, through positive behavioral supports, through peers working with each other, through physically accessible schools and classrooms, the disability becomes less of a barrier to education the more we can put these effective practices in place. [00:05:27] So happy to be here with this incredible panel of friends and colleagues and excited for the conversation. Chris Espeland [00:05:34] Thank you, Dan, and welcome Samuel, Samuel’s prepared a quick update on his adult life he'd like to share. [00:05:41] So be sure to watch the video version on your on our website. [00:05:45] If you're just listening in today. [00:05:47] So we're going to go ahead. Samuel Habib [00:05:49] Hello, everybody. [00:05:50] I'm Samuel. [00:05:52] I have an older brother named Isaiah. [00:05:55] He's so funny. [00:05:57] This is my service dog, Proton, he comes to doctor appointments and on vacations with us, and when we are out in public, he's a great wingman. [00:06:08] I'm a student at the local community college. [00:06:12] Right now, my career plan is to be a documentary filmmaker. [00:06:16] I'm a huge NASCAR fan. [00:06:19] At one race at the New Hampshire Motor Speedway, I meant my favorite driver, Kevin Harvick. [00:06:25] I decided to do deep brain stimulation, which has stopped my uncontrollable movements before the surgery when I got excited. [00:06:34] My body would get really wiggly. [00:06:36] Now my body is calm. [00:06:39] Debbie has helped me be able to get a tattoo of the Boston Red Sox be on my arm. [00:06:46] I really don't mind having a disability. [00:06:49] I just wish I didn't have so many doctors appointments and IVs and that the world was totally wheelchair accessible, especially my friends homes. [00:06:59] I also hate when people talk to me like I'm a three year old because I use a communication device and a wheelchair. [00:07:06] The positive thing about having a disability is that I have an awesome team every day. [00:07:12] I also like being part of the disability community. Chris Espeland [00:07:17] Well, thank you, Samuel. [00:07:18] And lastly, LeDerick. LeDerick Horne [00:07:20] I everybody, I'm the LeDerick Horne, broadcasting from New Jersey today. [00:07:25] Also very excited to be a part of this group. [00:07:28] I come to this work as a person with a disability, someone with a learning disability that pass through special education for most of my education and then went on to college. [00:07:39] And my artifact is actually this this poster that's going to pan this without trying to knock this over, this dare to dream poster when I was a college student at there, passing through a bunch of support programs for students with disabilities that got kind of recruited from the New Jersey Department of Education to start empowering young people. [00:07:59] And for me, a big part of the work of inclusion is also about empowering not only educators to implement better practices or leaders to come up with better policies, but it's also about empowering and strengthening the voices of young people with disabilities. [00:08:16] So I'll leave it there. Chris Espeland [00:08:19] Thank you so much. [00:08:20] So at this point, we're going to go ahead and dove right into our discussion. [00:08:25] And Samuel, I'm going to go ahead and toss this one to you here and start us off with the first question. Samuel Habib [00:08:32] Why are students with disabilities still so segregated in many schools? Chris Espeland [00:08:37] And this is open to the whole panel. Lauren Katzman [00:08:39] I'll go ahead and start. [00:08:41] I think that students with disabilities are still segregated. [00:08:46] Thank you for the question, Samuel. [00:08:48] I think there's two reasons. [00:08:50] I mean, there's many more. [00:08:50] But the two reasons that that rise to the top for me are lack of vision and lack of logic. [00:08:57] I think people can't see a community that that respects all. [00:09:03] Nobody is inferior. [00:09:04] Nobody is superior. [00:09:05] I think as a country, we can't see that. [00:09:08] And so I I think our schools are microcosms of our country. [00:09:12] And so I think we just can't see it once you can see it and you can see that it works. [00:09:17] I think people embrace it and I think that changes people's minds. [00:09:21] I also think logic comes into play when people hear special education. [00:09:25] It seems like logic flies out the window and you think you can't do anything. [00:09:29] And I mean, does does it make sense to have a group of students who don't have expressive language together with other students who don't have expressive language to grow their language? [00:09:42] Does it make sense to have a bunch of kids who have behavioral issues together with kids who have behavioral issues? [00:09:47] Does it make sense for that group to be all black boys? [00:09:50] There's logic involved in that. [00:09:52] And if you can see it, just trust your logic. [00:09:54] Those aren't right. [00:09:55] That doesn't make sense. [00:09:58] So. [00:10:00] That's what I would say, vision and logic of the two things to stand up to me right now. LeDerick Horne [00:10:06] I think there's and again, thank you, Sam, for that question. [00:10:10] I think that there is also a certain degree of. [00:10:14] Historical and organizational momentum that we just kind of keep doing the things that we've been doing, and that's true for many of our systems and certainly true for our educational system. [00:10:27] This past year is all of us who are rising up and asking for police reform. [00:10:33] I was doing deep dives and I remember seeing a lecture from an attorney and when the ways that he phrased like the current state of the criminal justice system was saying that it's not our fault, like this is what we've all inherited and all of us have inherited it. [00:10:47] So, like, we don't necessarily need to get I mean, like there's value in kind of saying here's how we came to be. [00:10:55] But it's not necessarily about fault and more about who's going to take responsibility because we all have responsibility now, given the past, to say what is the future we want and we all have to be all hands on deck to work to make that future happen. Keith Jones [00:11:10] This is Keith. [00:11:12] I will just say that I think one of the reasons that students are still segregated just from experience is it's an old adage, but for the grace of God, go. [00:11:23] I think it's the reflection of people's internal insecurities about what they if I was in this situation, I don't know how I could. [00:11:33] And then they project that on the students. [00:11:35] But I think the challenge for me is having a discussion about education with people who are in charge of education, having to convince them that other humans are worthy of being educated. [00:11:46] It just it just for me, it's one of those things like segregation is a choice and it's not a choice by those who are being segregated. [00:11:55] It's by those who have the power to do the segregation. [00:11:58] And then the question is not who is segregated as much as to what. [00:12:03] Why are we segregated because of our human condition or because of our ability to communicate or the passion in which we communicate. [00:12:12] Or in my case, a new face in the fashion in which I write, the way I will mobilize or move in certain spaces that I think for education. [00:12:22] The challenge then becomes, you know, do you want to be reflective of the worst parts of our aspect of our humanity or the best part? [00:12:31] And I think if you come to education consciously, I think you are hoping to have the best parts. [00:12:38] But we'll see whether or not we can actually move past that. Dan Habib [00:12:43] Thanks, Samuel, great question, you always get right to the heart of the matter. [00:12:46] So thank you for doing that. [00:12:47] This is Dan, your dad. [00:12:49] So I think the real issue, one huge issue I see is that we have these separate systems that have been around a long time, special education and regular education. [00:12:59] And it's really hard to take apart existing systems in any part of society. [00:13:05] And the reality is that the path of least resistance in many ways is to keep kids with disabilities segregated. [00:13:12] It's actually easier for a lot of administrators to not create truly inclusive, integrated classrooms and give students with disabilities the support they need to succeed. [00:13:23] The problem is that when you do that, you have two major outcomes. [00:13:26] One is that you deprive all the quote unquote, typical students of true diversity in our society, which is of people with and without disabilities together. [00:13:35] And you also are undermining the success of students with disabilities, because we know from decades of research that inclusive education results in better outcomes for students with disabilities when it comes to higher education opportunities, employment transition to adulthood, academic achievement, behavior, communication. [00:13:54] So there's there's absolutely no reason we should keep those systems intact. [00:13:57] But it's going to take a continuous take a lot of work to dismantle them. [00:14:00] And I'll leave some some time for anybody else who wants to speak. Alfredo Artiles [00:14:05] Thank you then I agree with everything that my colleagues have said point in addition to that, I would like to add that one of the key reasons for the segregation we see for students with disabilities is that. [00:14:17] The way we think about education is based on the assumption of a standard human being, we have the illusion that there is a universal standard way of defining who is a human being and what should fit in that vision. [00:14:33] When we look at the assumptions we make about that standard human being, people with disabilities have not been included and for that reason they're considered, quote, different. [00:14:43] And the problem is then that whatever is considered different. [00:14:48] It's assumed that they should not be included in whatever is constructed for individuals that are the so-called standard human beings, and historically we know that people with disabilities have been justifiably segregated and discriminated against. [00:15:06] There is a lot of evidence of that and it is OK has been OK for systems, individuals, policies. [00:15:14] It is justifiable to treat disabled people unequally. [00:15:19] And there has been impunity about that and there is no reaction to it, and unfortunately something that has continued to be done over the years. [00:15:27] So what we need to remember is that. [00:15:31] Whenever we make decisions about who is different, who doesn't fit in that vision of the universal human being is always a comparative exercise. [00:15:40] Who you are different from is something that we never asked, and then the moment we ask the question, we need to be reminding people that assumptions we make about what fits in the standard view is not is only an illusion that once you begin to see people's experiences where all. [00:15:58] Enveloped with differences and needs and lacks, as well as assets and qualities. [00:16:07] So demolishing the idea of the universal human being of this tender person is something that is critical for us to begin to push back in this practice of segregating people with disabilities from institutional and community lives. Chris Espeland [00:16:26] So in this came up a little bit in your responses, but I'm wondering if we can dig a little bit more into what are the implications of historical legacies of race, gender, sexual orientation and class on educational disparities. [00:16:41] And I'm wondering maybe Lauren or Alfredo Keith, you can kind of speak to that. Lauren Katzman [00:16:47] So I want to first say, and I saw one of the comments in the chat, and there are a lot of people on this webinar and across the country, my members who are doing amazing work. [00:16:59] This is everything we're talking about here is is about the bigger system. [00:17:03] But that does not deny that there are some, many, many, many district leaders, administrators doing amazing work. [00:17:11] And I know a lot of them are on this call. [00:17:12] So thank you for that. [00:17:13] I want to start there. [00:17:15] But in terms of the historical legacies, we come to the schools with that we this is what we are dealt. [00:17:21] This is the hand we're dealt. [00:17:22] So I would say that schools are a microcosm of our society, special education and desegregation, racial desegregation. [00:17:32] They've always been intertwined. [00:17:33] They started at the same time. [00:17:35] They've been intertwined the entire time. [00:17:38] There's no I mean, when special education started, it was a nice place for us to segregate black boys into special ed classrooms. [00:17:47] We have a major issue with prisons in this country. [00:17:50] We are overpopulated with prisons. [00:17:52] It's no surprise that we have a school to prison pipeline and our in our prison populations, we have boys of color, school to prison pipeline, boys of color. [00:18:01] I mean, prisons are built on a local third grade reading scores. [00:18:03] So we're microcosms of the of the environment we're in. [00:18:07] And so special ed is a piece of that. [00:18:10] But at the same time, there are positive things. [00:18:14] Were there protections for equity, there are people who care deeply, so we are we are dealt an incredibly complex hand here on how to deal with this. [00:18:22] But if we don't understand our history and we don't take it into consideration with our decision making. [00:18:29] We are we are not giving special education its due, which means it's a civil rights legislation. Alfredo Artiles [00:18:39] Exploring, I think this is a critical question that we have not asked often enough in education. [00:18:47] What are the implications of historical legacies of race, gender, sexual orientation and class, as well as disability? [00:18:54] And when we hear the question, we tend to assume that this is a technical problem, that this is something we need to deal with in education, as if it's an issue of multiple demographic markers that happens to be about people's traits and how certain individuals may have predispositions, prejudices against individuals of different gender, sexual orientation, class and race and disability. [00:19:23] I think it's it's a fallacy. [00:19:25] I think we should remind all of us that this is not a purely technical problem, that the historical legacies of race are also about stratifying groups in society, that we need to be reminded of the fact that these things, these intersections and the consequences of the intersections that bring about inequalities, limit access to opportunities and resources are happening everywhere in society. [00:19:53] As already said, this is a microcosm of what's happening elsewhere. [00:19:57] So you look at the polarization and economic and racial inequality we've witnessed in the US in the last number of decades, the fact that we have created policies to address certain kinds of difference than we end up discriminating other groups connected to those differences. [00:20:14] For example, the rationalization of disability. [00:20:17] We create a special education and inclusive education to serve civil rights needs of people with disabilities. [00:20:23] And in the end, depending on how you use that, you may end up using special education for segregating racialized groups. [00:20:31] So we create all these paradoxes. [00:20:33] And the key message for me is that it has consequences to continue to perpetuate the certification of certain groups in society, to keep them on the margins. [00:20:44] And so that, as you see certain intersections say disability, race and class, you begin to see the connections to the criminal justice issue that Laura mentioned a minute ago and how it's connected to issues of disability and access to higher education and jobs, et cetera. [00:21:03] So the question is one of cultural history, not one of diagnostic precision. [00:21:08] And this is something that we have to put on the table, that the historical concern is about the way we have set up opportunities for all groups in society. Keith Jones [00:21:24] Yes, and this is Keith, I think, when we talk about the historical ramifications of what and why, I think we have to understand it started at the very essence of defining what America would be, its kind of fighting, its kind of fighting, the Declaration of Independence codified in the Constitution. [00:21:46] It's kind of tied in the vagrancy laws that the new catchphrase now is that we're doing Jim Crow 2.0. [00:21:54] For those of us who understand what Jim Crow is, is a version 39. [00:21:58] This is not new, but the historical legacy is that people tend to revert to the mean meaning. [00:22:05] They tend to go back to what it is comfortable for them. [00:22:08] And in education, the historical legacy. [00:22:11] Whether you a person with a disability, particularly a person with a disability. [00:22:15] And that person with a disability of a particular ethnic group, whether your first nation, whether you're a descendant of the stolen half or you have migrant workers from Asia to build the rebels, those all of those groups that came to this country were still in preconceive. [00:22:33] Those legacies were codified into the way education is being dealt. [00:22:38] Those legacies are now historically shown dead, showing their faces in terms of whether the graduation rates for the attainment of if you can look at this map and look at a zip code and judge, you tell future. [00:22:54] That's not because the town of the family say this is what we want. [00:22:58] That is a pattern in the practice. [00:23:00] It has an intentional outcome if people are seeking. [00:23:03] So I think the the the the long term, the residual effect is that people tend to go up like, you know, they always are like that. [00:23:12] And it's the easy out versus saying, you know, those who know history we know are doomed to repeat it. [00:23:19] And so here's an opportunity to understand, particularly at this moment in American history, that racism, xenophobia, denial of First Nation and any other isms or phobias that you might have are not a product of the groups who are at the expense of them, but a way to maintain of power. [00:23:39] And the question is, why so few things in the derica? [00:23:45] I'm sure we'll have some things to say as well. [00:23:47] You know, I think that based on how I on Twitter also said because people with disabilities have been marginalized and their families have been marginalized and people with disabilities of color have been particularly marginalized, we need to make our schools and special education as a whole more welcoming to families. [00:24:03] And we need to go out of our way to do that. [00:24:05] And some ways that I think is really critical is that students with disabilities should start in a regular classroom with the support they need to be successful. [00:24:14] And that's just the law. [00:24:15] That's the least restrictive environment within idea. [00:24:18] But that's also high expectations. [00:24:20] And people with disabilities are subjected to low expectations. [00:24:24] Most of the time, you know, students with disabilities should be on a diploma track. [00:24:28] Students with disabilities should be part of their immediate and helping to lead their IEP meetings. [00:24:35] Students with disabilities should be able to go to meetings with their families at times and work for the families. [00:24:40] These are all things that families don't experience enough. [00:24:43] And they also experience too often if they get deficit based approach to the education, identifying all the all the things they're flailing at or failing at, not strengths that could be built off of. [00:24:54] So there's so much more to say about this. [00:24:56] But I just think it's critical that that families feel welcome in the process and students who were in the process that are. LeDerick Horne [00:25:05] Sorry, I've been Vivan enjoying everybody's responses, I don't remember what the original question was, so I want to make sure my response is on point. [00:25:14] What was the original question? [00:25:15] Now I'll put my two cents. Chris Espeland [00:25:17] So really just kind of thinking about the influence and contextualization. [00:25:22] So I think Dan spin on it was how can we think about shifting that legacy that we're holding and kind of come at it from the lens of either edge educational practices and programs or school family community partnerships? [00:25:35] Like what? [00:25:36] What are those things to consider in that shift? LeDerick Horne [00:25:41] Well, you know, I think there are like multiple fronts that we need to fight. [00:25:46] Right. [00:25:46] And one of them is, is how we prepare teachers. [00:25:48] And I think maybe some of us just touched on that already. [00:25:51] You know, the teacher preparation programs, you know, where you can have someone pass through, be highly qualified. [00:25:57] And really, for most folks, that just means that they're prepared to be able to educate someone who's just like them. [00:26:03] Right. [00:26:03] As far as their ethnic background, maybe even gender, economic status and that sort of thing. [00:26:08] And I think for the school administrators, the leaders that I've really seen that have really embraced inclusive practices, part of what they do is they understand that that is a reality and then they invest in an additional education for their for their staff. [00:26:24] Right. [00:26:24] What do we need to do to make sure that we're prepared to work with the students who are in front of us? [00:26:29] And that really is also requires taking time to really understand your student population in general, as well as the individual who you're who you're looking to support and then being willing to just to draw on whatever resources you need, whatever coaching, you know, taking part in events like this to to to help close that that gap and that it's something that I think we all kind of have to work at. [00:26:53] It's like being an athlete. [00:26:55] You constantly have to practice. Chris Espeland [00:26:58] Yeah, I hear you on that and, you know, I'd love to ask Samuel this question to kind of round out our conversation today in terms of so Samuel, what did your teachers do in high school and college to create access for your education? Samuel Habib [00:27:18] During high school, I like to work on class assignments with my friends, I always have my Tobi device for school and academic communication. [00:27:29] The teachers for each of my classes gave me a list of key vocabulary for each unit ahead of time for my telecommunication device. [00:27:37] That way I can use the words for homework tests and contributing to class discussions. [00:27:44] Since freshman year, I have helped to lead our team IEP check in meetings with the PowerPoint that I would make in advance with my special education coordinator. [00:27:54] Each of my teachers would talk about what is going well and what could be improved. Chris Espeland [00:28:00] Thank you for that, Sam. [00:28:01] And that really helps to paint pictures, I think. [00:28:04] And oftentimes we need those visuals of what is going well and the strengths that they're building for you and realizing that you have. [00:28:13] So thank you for that. [00:28:14] So I want to shift our conversation into this kind of futurity, visioning and thinking about, you know, thinking about the future ahead. [00:28:24] What haven't we shared or you haven't shared today that you would like to share? [00:28:28] That would be a recommendation either for leaders on creating that inclusive education for learners with disabilities into the twenty first century. [00:28:36] Like what could that future really look like, feel like, sound like? [00:28:41] And so we're going to go ahead and go around the horn. [00:28:43] And why don't we start off with you, Alfredo, or and put your voice in on that. [00:28:51] What are you thinking about? Alfredo Artiles [00:28:53] Intervention in, right? [00:28:58] Critical question, because oftentimes we stop looking ahead. [00:29:05] Crafting visions that will guide our practices and our investments today, sometimes we just get caught up in the moment of getting through the day or the week of the month, but that's the key question. [00:29:18] What are we aspiring to achieve? [00:29:19] Where are we headed? [00:29:21] And we mentioned several of our colleagues mentioned already the critical role of history. [00:29:26] You know, inclusive education community should always be engaged in historical thinking. [00:29:32] What is the history of engagement with communities with disabilities in this city, in this community, in this school district, at this school? [00:29:43] What do we know about the way race and class have been interconnected with disability? [00:29:51] Are we expanding opportunities for those individuals, are there differences in the way individuals who live at different intersections getting as a result of being involved in of education are not? [00:30:03] Are we using a language I think Dan alluded to this language of deficit and we only focus in on tackling what is missing in the students and families experiences, are we just looking at profiles of things that need to be fixed? [00:30:18] So. [00:30:19] History matters, we need to have that imagination guiding our visions. [00:30:24] We need to amplify a language of possibility. [00:30:28] What can these communities, families, children, students do in addition to what they need? [00:30:36] Are the students only encapsulated in the results of those assessments? [00:30:42] Can we begin to think about how to represent the experiences of students in new ways? [00:30:50] Am I only a Latino man with a learning disability? [00:30:55] From a specific social class, or are there different things that you can gather and find out about me that will also protect you? [00:31:03] I am so thinking about the way we represent individuals and families and communities is critical. [00:31:08] Can we expand that? [00:31:11] And finally. [00:31:13] Are the interventions, the strategies, the pedagogies, the curricula that we're using in schools informed by multiple points of view, multiple experiences. [00:31:23] We have a long standing legacy in special education of a colorblind or color invasive approach to producing knowledge. [00:31:31] Most of the time, the samples included in those studies do not include students with diverse backgrounds, so we need to be mindful of that. [00:31:39] Leaders, practitioners, professionals, teachers need to remember that the knowledge we are trying to use oftentimes is not informed by the experiences of different communities that we need to challenge these invasive approach to the use of knowledge. [00:31:54] So those are some of the things that come to light. [00:31:56] Chris? Chris Espeland [00:31:57] Thanks Alfredo, Lauren. Lauren Katzman [00:32:01] Sure, speaking as a previous administrator, talking to administrators, I would say the first thing is to have a vision. [00:32:10] I've been in too many districts and too many schools where the focus is on compliance and timelines as opposed to having a vision. [00:32:20] And I wish for leaders that they can pull themselves out of the day to day so they can spend time moving forward because special education is always. [00:32:32] There are always red flags, there's always things to be dealing with, they're always emergencies, but if some people, some people in the district of the school can get out of that and be able to push forward, I think that's a game changer. [00:32:46] I would also say create a school that you want to send your own children, if you can, if you feel confident, send your children there. [00:32:53] I think that might be a great school, I would say. [00:32:58] I would say ask students if we have a vision, we need to have the students voice and the students know what they want, they know what they need, ask them, let them let their voice be heard. [00:33:10] And concurring with what Elfrida said, definitely keep history and current environment in mind when making decisions about students. [00:33:19] I mean, we have a civil rights history. [00:33:22] We have a current issue with imprisonment. [00:33:24] We have a current issue with police shootings. [00:33:27] 50 percent of police shootings are people with disabilities. [00:33:30] We are also in a pandemic. [00:33:33] I keep hearing people talk about we're going to make up this time. [00:33:36] It's a worldwide pandemic. [00:33:37] It's intense, and everybody in the world has dealt with it. [00:33:42] And so we just have to know where we sit. [00:33:45] We are a traumatized world right now. [00:33:48] But that doesn't mean that when people come back to schools that we're going to call everybody who has trauma, a person with a disability. [00:33:56] When people come back to schools and they're acting out because they've been sitting in their room or on the computer for a year, let's not suspend them. [00:34:03] Let's not let's not do more harm. [00:34:07] So my vision is to create an environment that, you know, is right, you know, in your gut is right and but have all the knowledge, have historical knowledge, have current environment knowledge as you're making those decisions. [00:34:23] So that was just adding to this thinking. Keith Jones [00:34:25] All right, that's a loaded question, I'm sort of like the crazy radical on the group, so I'm going to put that head on their word proudly. [00:34:34] There's a couple of things, I think. [00:34:36] And again, we're talking about education in an intentional state. [00:34:41] So you you chose to be a teacher. [00:34:44] You chose to build a career in education. [00:34:46] You chose to be an administrator. [00:34:48] So the question I ask when I talk to teachers is real simple. [00:34:53] Why do you educate? [00:34:55] Why do you get up every morning in order to go to be with somebody else's children? [00:35:00] Why do you get up every morning and want to impart education? [00:35:05] But we cannot forget that education, at least in this country and throughout history, has been political and understand what the political context is. [00:35:14] Why is it that we needed to have Brown versus Board of Education? [00:35:18] Why is it that we needed IPCA? [00:35:20] Why do we need to win sixty six? [00:35:22] Why do we need five or four. [00:35:25] In order to get educators to just want to educate students, regardless of where they are in their human condition, whether they have complex medical needs, hidden disabilities, behavior issues, youth, you show up in this space for a reason. [00:35:43] If if your reason, whether you're conscious or unconscious on the phone, believe an unconscious bias is the easy way out. [00:35:50] People know that I didn't like you because I didn't like you. [00:35:54] Yes, you did. [00:35:55] And so the future would be to say, coming out of a global pandemic or even in the midst of the pandemic, if it is telling, you know, that our our humanity is frail and fragile and that those who appreciate the entirety of any students humanity, whether they are trans by whether they are black or white, whatever, whatever handle they're given to in order for you to operate with that student, understanding the end user because you are a teacher or an administrator, you get a paycheck, you get to go home. [00:36:35] These kids and these students and these families on their journey will be, as I like to say, the launching pad on the brick wall. [00:36:44] So future for me is that everybody understands that the school is the place where you can come in and understand your humanity is valued. [00:36:53] Your access to information is not based upon whether you teach or you draw or you them or you walk a different way. [00:37:01] That is based upon the fact that the people who are in charge of imparting the educational value, your humanity above all, and they give you every tool necessary in order for you to value your humanity and for you to reach your greatest potential. [00:37:17] We do better when we all do better. [00:37:19] It's cheesy, it's corny. [00:37:21] But in fact, if you turn out brilliant students, you don't have to worry down the road. [00:37:26] You don't have to worry about the term prison pipeline pipeline to prison. [00:37:31] You don't have to worry about the terms disparities because you are meeting them at the door and saying wherever you come from. [00:37:39] Your identity. [00:37:40] How do you see yourself? [00:37:42] We do value that our goal in this space is to underpin what we can need in total education and support to get you to the next stage of your human existence as best as we can. [00:37:54] That would be ideal in future. [00:37:57] But that would require administrators and teachers and everyone to step back and say, who is the end user? [00:38:05] Because everybody making decisions of people getting paychecks to people who are at the end of the pipeline are the ones who have to deal with the consequences. [00:38:13] So that would be my future. Chris Espeland [00:38:16] Thank you so much, Keith Lynn, Eric. LeDerick Horne [00:38:20] You know, just sort of thinking about this question of a future vision. [00:38:26] Now I'm thinking back to my own experience in facing graduation and just being terrified as a young man because I really didn't know what was available for me later on. [00:38:36] And, you know, one of the things I love so much about this panel is that the presence of the artist and I do believe as an artist that part of our role in society historically has been to help give people a vision for what is possible. [00:38:52] So I'm seeing some of the questions coming in the chat about how do we sort of show educators what's possible, how do we show families and young people what empowerment looks like? [00:39:06] Part of that is, you know, like on here for a reason. [00:39:09] I keep saying, you know, it's it's being able to help paint a picture, whether it be with film or words, storytelling of of what is possible. [00:39:20] And the great thing about this is that it's not science fiction. [00:39:24] Right. [00:39:24] We don't have to create some some imaginary alien society. [00:39:29] There are pockets of excellence all over our nation, all over your state. [00:39:33] And one of the ways, I think, in which we and I learned this very early on, working with folks in the state of Department of Ed here in New Jersey is we really need to celebrate the people who are doing the work that we want to exemplify and I mean celebrate in your school homecoming in front of everybody. [00:39:52] Here is the plaque and say why? [00:39:55] Right. [00:39:56] Because they're doing the kind of work that we want. [00:39:58] We want to support, you know, and so much of this work. [00:40:03] And I think I think it's set it in the podcast is around using cultural tools to shift the culture of an institution, of the culture of of a community. [00:40:13] And so I think the arts, the arts also have a very strong role in doing all of this work. Dan Habib [00:40:18] It's great that the work was just talking about culture because I was just thinking about the importance in our future of seeing disability as a culture. [00:40:24] And I don't think the majority of the public sees that. [00:40:27] And I remember when Sam was very young, we got to meet the great disability advocate, Norman Koontz, who lives out in Vancouver, Canada. [00:40:35] And he said to us, if you gave me a pill to take away my cerebral palsy, I would not take it because I like who I am. [00:40:41] I like being a person with a disability and being the parent of a three year old child with cerebral palsy. [00:40:46] That just blew my mind and gave me such a beautiful vision for the future. [00:40:49] Then meeting people like Keith Jones, who Samuel got to know and has been a mentor for a long time as another adult with CP was really powerful for him. [00:40:57] So I think that we need to embed the fact that disability is part of our culture in our school curriculum, you know, by by building it through bringing people with disabilities into your schools to speak to the students, you know, to all students, not just kids with disabilities, to bring to bringing movies like Krip Camp, a great movie that some friends of mine made to your community know. [00:41:18] And I think that once you see disability as a culture, just like other cultures that Keith was talking about earlier, you emphasize this is critical to our diversity. [00:41:27] This is critical to becoming a fully formed human being. [00:41:30] To be exposed to all different aspects of culture, including disability, and to segregate kids with disabilities is very damaging to students without disabilities because you're creating this artificial bubble that does not represent the true diversity of our society. [00:41:44] So that's the future I want to see is that disability is naturally part of our diversity in all aspects of life. [00:41:52] I think Sam might be up next. Chris Espeland [00:41:54] You're right. [00:41:55] Thank you, Dan. Dan Habib [00:41:56] Samuel, let me take a just second. [00:41:59] There you go to a question for him. [00:42:03] Chris, are you ready to go, Sam, on that? [00:42:06] Sure. [00:42:08] Go for it, man. [00:42:09] What's your vision of the future? Samuel Habib [00:42:10] Being in a regular classroom help me make friends, learn interesting material, learn about my rights, and prepared me for my transition to adulthood. [00:42:21] It also helped me meet girls. [00:42:24] I want everyone to know that people with disabilities demand respect and rights. Dan Habib [00:42:30] Thank you, Sam. [00:42:31] Well said, I remember the days right back, right? Chris Espeland [00:42:36] Well, that is right. [00:42:37] Thank you. [00:42:38] So at this point, we've had a lot to think about. [00:42:42] Our panelists have really provides some really rich thoughts or some questions that have been coming in. [00:42:48] So we're going to take a minute here and address some of these questions. [00:42:51] We may not get to all of them, but we're sure going to try to get to at least a few of them. [00:42:56] So one of them and this is open to the whole panel. [00:42:59] One of the questions that came in was how can we support parents to be strong advocates for their children? Keith Jones [00:43:05] This is Keith. [00:43:06] I'll take a stab at it. [00:43:07] First of all, I think this goes to for the administrators and for the teachers on this one. [00:43:14] It's the school parental relationship that the partnership versus an adversary. [00:43:21] I understand their state guidelines in compliances, but the way you make a good advocate as a parent is to show them that you're invested in their child as well, that you want not just what's best for the outcome of the class, but what's best for the student and getting investment. [00:43:37] My mother was probably the greatest advocate, the life ahead, but she did it because she had to initiate the right versus legal partnership. [00:43:46] So maybe rethinking that parents are not adversaries, even though they show up and be, wow, that's so tough. [00:43:53] But they are. [00:43:54] But we again, what do we here for? [00:43:56] The end user is the student. [00:43:58] So this needs to be a healthy partnership, not only between the student and the administrator, but the students and the families. [00:44:05] So one of the ways is just making making a school, welcoming to the community, making it a part of the community, make it open, make it seem like you actually really care. [00:44:16] And that will you will see how humans react. [00:44:19] When they know you have the best interest and not only just an interest in trying to get to where you need to be, but putting their child in the best position, that's probably one of the easier ways to teach parents how to be a better. LeDerick Horne [00:44:33] I can I ad on Keith’s point and just a practical example that I remember seeing in one of the states that I worked in was that there was a school district is actually an entire region that as parents were passing through the system and were working with the school with their there. [00:44:51] And these are parents who had kids with disabilities. [00:44:53] These these parents were looked at as support for other families. [00:44:57] And so they actually had a team, a group of of of parents. [00:45:01] And when there was someone who was newly diagnosed or someone that came in from outside of the district, they showed up. [00:45:07] Right. [00:45:08] And were like, hey, here's what you need to know. [00:45:10] And so it was this instead of reactionary, you know, taking a step forward before it became a problem and helping to forge that relationship. [00:45:22] And I think so much of this information is is when it comes to this sort of change, it's sometimes really about the messenger. [00:45:30] Right. [00:45:30] And, you know, and and Keith is saying and if you've already done the groundwork to say parents voices are important and we have a liaison to help to help work with you and help give you some of those those skills and some of the sort of cultural norms for how things are done in this in this area. [00:45:48] It also shows that that new person at the school and the community has made an investment in them. [00:45:55] And again, it's just a sign of respect that I think so many of us are looking for. Alfredo Artiles [00:46:02] I just want to reiterate Keith and LeDerick’s message as well in answering this question, I think one of the key points to keep in mind is that parents are the reason why these systems exist. [00:46:17] They are there because families need schools and educational system, so it's such an important reminder for families and parents, you know, all of this is there because of you that were created to address your needs and your dreams. [00:46:32] So it's important to be in touch with that fact. [00:46:35] The other thing that we need to remember is that parents, families have been the engine of change in the history of inclusive education in the world. [00:46:43] When parents organized and require responses, things happen. [00:46:49] The same happens when students do the same, especially in middle and high school levels, so. [00:46:56] We as parents embody the power to make change when we remember that we can do that because there is no proof of it. [00:47:04] And the final thing I just want to reiterate there is point. [00:47:07] Respect is everything for me. [00:47:10] We need as parents to require and respect, respect. [00:47:16] Because we deserve it. [00:47:18] It's important to be treated with dignity. [00:47:20] It's important to have the respect of others to be present with us. [00:47:26] We need to be respected to be listened to, so respect is everything, we need to respect that and if we don't get it to require it because we are entitled to do that. Chris Espeland [00:47:39] Well, thank you all for that. [00:47:42] So we have time probably for one more question. [00:47:45] And one of the things that the audience was asking about is might you talk about some tough mind set shifts you've been able to witness with teachers moving from those kids to my kids are our kids. [00:47:58] So I'm wondering, Dan, if you can highlight that and maybe more and you could follow that up. Dan Habib [00:48:03] Sure. [00:48:04] A couple of thoughts on that. [00:48:05] I mean, it's great that this is the Association of Washington School Principals, because leadership, I think, is at the core of so much of this. [00:48:11] And we've maybe talked around that, but we haven't really gone right to it. [00:48:15] And the fact that there are schools that I've been able to travel to and Filmon that are incredibly poor schools, I was at a school in Mississippi filming and it was 100 percent free and reduced lunch, having to be a hundred percent black as well. [00:48:30] I think the family median income in this Mississippi Delta school with nineteen thousand dollars a year and they were doing incredible inclusion there are differentiating their instruction. [00:48:39] They were doing possible supports, universal design for learning, you know, peers, station teaching. [00:48:44] And it was largely because of that principle that principal had set a tone that this is the way we do things every single kid in our community deserves to learn together. [00:48:54] We know that this is going to benefit the kids with disabilities and the kids without disabilities to be working alongside each other. [00:49:00] So I think that, you know, how do we make that happen? [00:49:03] How do we do midship? [00:49:04] One huge way is by showing leadership from the top four principals, superintendents, special ed directors who set the tone. [00:49:09] And I talked to a lot of teachers around the country that are struggling because their leaders don't support inclusion. [00:49:16] And I acknowledge that's a really tough road to hoe to try and work out from the bottom. [00:49:20] I mean, you can still affect your classroom and that's important. [00:49:23] But if you don't have that support from the top, it's difficult. [00:49:27] And I use the example, Mississippi, to say certainly education needs money, but money I don't think is the most important thing is leadership and it's attitude and it's cultural. [00:49:36] It's the culture that you establish within a school. [00:49:38] So power, more power to you. [00:49:40] All those principals out there, they're doing that hard work because it is hard work and but it's absolutely critical to making this all fall into place. Lauren Katzman [00:49:48] I would say that people hear different things, people relate to different things, so the arts, I use Dan haboobs films all the time to show people what it could look like, how to see this vision. [00:50:04] So I think the arts is important. [00:50:05] But in Dan's film, he uses a lot of research. [00:50:09] And so the research that Alfredo does is hugely important. [00:50:13] And then we have, you know, the Derek and Kiefer people who are just showing, you know, who they are, poets and activists. [00:50:20] And I think you change people's mindsets by a bunch of different ways, just not one way. [00:50:26] I think it's important to say we all need each other. [00:50:28] We all need all of this. [00:50:30] But I do think it's important to start with a vision. [00:50:32] When I was in New York City, we went around, it was there were 17 hundreds principals, seventeen hundred schools. [00:50:40] And we went around in groups of twenty five and talked to every single principal about thinking about special ed differently. [00:50:47] And then with Dan and the Derek actually. [00:50:50] Then we went to talk to the parents in all five boroughs to think about looking at special ed differently. [00:50:55] So I think I think there are many different ways. [00:51:00] You need symbolism, you need structures, you need to teach people how to teach. [00:51:07] You need to understand the politics. [00:51:09] You need all of that. [00:51:11] I would also speak about one specific piece of that in schools. [00:51:15] I'm hearing a lot of talk about code teaching, and there's a lot of places I'm saying to teachers in the classroom, one in the back with the kids with disabilities, one of the front teaching and it looks the same. [00:51:27] So I want to start thinking again how to think differently. [00:51:31] How do we serve kids? [00:51:33] How do we all, you know, own all the kids? [00:51:36] How do we all support all students? [00:51:38] So I would start with Kosovan then. [00:51:41] I would start with planning together, you know, planning, then get to teach them. [00:51:46] So I want I mean, there are there tricks? [00:51:48] There are things to do. [00:51:49] But I think the biggest thing is don't just do one thing and think of the whole person to think of how different people hear different things and how we all need each other to do this. Chris Espeland [00:52:04] Well, I I don't know what to say except really well at this moment, you know, the words in the conversation today has been so rich and comprehensive and I think it's going to we will have this recorded. [00:52:20] We've had multiple people ask. [00:52:22] It will be available on our website for you to go back and rethink. [00:52:25] And here again, just this powerful conversation from all of our panelists. [00:52:30] And so I just want to say we appreciate and thank all of you who join us today, whether you were on the panel or just sitting alongside and listening to these wonderful conversations. [00:52:43] And we just are excited about this collective work in supporting inclusion and exclusionary practices in the field, doing the work, doing the heavy lifting, and just keep on lifting. [00:52:54] And we appreciate all that you're doing. [00:52:57] It's just been a joy to be with you all today. [00:52:59] And we thank you again, all of you, for the work that you're doing in the field. [00:53:04] And we'd also like to acknowledge and thank you for making this free professional learning series possible with funding through the Inclusionary Projects Grant. [00:53:14] And again, thank you all for joining us today. [00:53:17] This was a really powerful time to think about and push on not just what we know about the past, but also revisioning and thinking about what can we do? [00:53:27] What action should we take to build that future city and really make some systems shifts and changes. [00:53:34] So thank you again today.