Scott Seaman [00:00:06] Thanks for tuning into another episode of AWSP News. [00:00:10] We are fortunate today to have a special guest in our studio. [00:00:13] John Wiesman, Secretary of Health for the State of Washington has joined us live today in our in our studio. [00:00:19] John thanks for being here. John Wiesman [00:00:20] Thank you so much for having me Scott. [00:00:21] I appreciate it. Scott Seaman [00:00:22] You bet. [00:00:23] John's probably wondering why am I sitting here and why are we talking with the secretary of health from State of Washington? [00:00:31] But I've got good reasons. [00:00:34] I get a lot of calls from principals all over the state John who are struggling with this ongoing battle of substance abuse of the students. [00:00:42] And we all know that it all starts with experimenting and kids might start with chewing tobacco and end up with heavy addiction issues it starts somewhere and our principals are dealing with that on the front lines. [00:00:56] One of the initiatives that was brought to our attention right away this year was this whole idea of tobacco 21 in Washington. [00:01:05] But before we get into that why don't you start with a little bit about who you are in your role and how you ended up in your current position. John Wiesman [00:01:12] Absolutely, so my role as Secretary of Health is to really run the state health department and serve on the governors cabinet. [00:01:19] So the secretary of the Department of Health has a huge book of business everything from regulating our health care providers, almost to half a million of them to stopping and controlling disease outbreaks, working on preventing chronic disease like heart disease and tobacco use. [00:01:37] And so we have a really broad book including safe water and safe food and you might imagine it's a large department and my interests sort of in all of this and how I got started In many ways goes back to my childhood. [00:01:52] So I grew up in a small town in rural Wisconsin and had four brothers and two sisters and a mom and dad and stable life and a great school system that I felt comfortable in and what I realized as an adult was this thing about healthy starts really goes way back to the beginning and it goes back to having these stable nurturing environments for kids whether that be in our home or in our school systems where they spend so much time. [00:02:21] And that really drove my passion towards public health. [00:02:25] And that's sort of what led me to being Secretary of Health. Scott Seaman [00:02:28] And It sounds like the responsibility of the Secretary of Health are very similar to a principal. John Wiesman [00:02:35] You might say that in some ways yes. Scott Seaman [00:02:37] A huge scope of work. [00:02:38] Well why you tell us a little bit about tobacco 21 in Washington. John Wiesman [00:02:43] Sure the Attorney General and I are requesting the legislature to pass legislation that would raise the age of sales for tobacco from 18 to 21, tobacco and vape products. [00:02:56] We really understand that we want to prevent another generation from being addicted to tobacco and to vape products and nicotine. [00:03:04] And really the way we have to get there is to keep tobacco out of the hands of our kids. [00:03:09] And what we know is that a lot of our kids are getting tobacco from those who are in their social network those who are 18, 19, 20, where it's legal to purchase that whether that be older school kids, older siblings, people they work with. [00:03:26] And so this effort really is about preventing another generation from becoming addicted to tobacco. Scott Seaman [00:03:33] And what are some of the early arguments you're hearing from people about bumping it up to 21? John Wiesman [00:03:38] Well you know this is actually our fifth attempt at this and last year we made it all the way through the house on a really strong bipartisan support. [00:03:47] And we always knew that if we could get this bill to the floor of the House and the Senate we would get it passed. [00:03:54] The concerns that we've run into along the way are one if you're 18 and you can vote and go to war why can't you smoke. [00:04:04] Well I point out to the fact that we actually want healthy folks in our military and the military is really having a hard time recruiting people in part because of health issues. [00:04:14] And we say that you know 21 is the age for purchasing alcohol and now marijuana in this case and fire arms and that it really just makes sense and it goes back to brain development actually which I know your audience fully understands that brains develop all the way up till the age of twenty five and those last things to develop sort of are the reasoning and cognitive functions and impulse control. [00:04:41] And so we really think this is the way to go and we think we have the support from the legislators when they actually get the bill to the floor. Scott Seaman [00:04:49] That's great I asked my son and his group of friends about this notion of moving it to 21 and is was interesting listening to their conversation but one of the things they kind of said consistently across the board was “well they should at least move it to 19, dad because it is so easy to be in the schools with all of the seniors who were 18 in the system.” [00:05:10] And he even pointed out that it's being pushed all the way into the middle level schools because of siblings and friends within the system. John Wiesman [00:05:18] And 19 is one of those issues that comes up and what we know from research and what the National Academy of Sciences has found is that raising the age to 19 will do very little to decrease initiation and then long term use, that getting it to 21 will reduce initiation by we think about 25 percent. [00:05:37] And again if you think about it it makes sense because kids are getting this from their social network and frankly they're you know kids 15 to 17, they're around 19, 20 year olds, 21, again as I said whether they're older siblings cousins if they work at a fast food restaurant for example folks tend to be a younger crowd who work there and that's where they're getting their product. [00:05:59] With our laws sort of preventing the sale and our work with retailers on preventing that folks really aren't getting their tobacco products from there anymore. [00:06:09] So this is this is where we need to focus now. Scott Seaman [00:06:11] Yeah. [00:06:12] So you mentioned this word vape or vaping. [00:06:18] I would imagine that a lot of our parent population and a lot of our principals or may not know all of the details around what vaping means what exactly is a vape or vaping. John Wiesman [00:06:28] Right, well vaping is really just another way of delivering nicotine to folks and frankly sort of making it look like it's not harmful. [00:06:37] So vape devices are a device that has liquid in it, usually contains nicotine, has toxic chemicals in it, heavy metals, and it gets heated up and sort of vaporized and then you inhale that and that's what vaping is. [00:06:54] And I think many people think it is safe or safer than to vape than tobacco for our youth. [00:07:02] And it's really not, like I said we've got harmful chemicals in these liquid products and even the flavored products that folks think oh, it's just flavoring. [00:07:16] No, you've got these other things in there as well. [00:07:18] And we have found even in packages that say no nicotine in them when they actually get tested there is oftentimes nicotine in those products. Scott Seaman [00:07:27] So maybe a sneaky way of initiating taking a student down the road of addiction by just small traces of nicotine. John Wiesman [00:07:37] Absolutely. [00:07:37] I mean you know frankly the tobacco companies are looking for a new way to market their product because we've been pretty successful in reducing the consumption of combustible tobacco. [00:07:48] And they know they have to keep finding ways to get new customers. [00:07:52] And so these sort of new electronic gadgets that you know appeal to our younger generation are one way to do that. Scott Seaman [00:08:01] So I hear this all the time, is there a difference between vaping and a Juul what's a Juul? [00:08:07] Or those Juul just a fancy term for vaping? John Wiesman [00:08:10] Juul is really just one of those vaping products and it's a product that has about 70 percent of the market. [00:08:16] So they're doing well for themselves shall we say, and I will say I think for themselves. [00:08:23] They also have this product this Juul actually puts the nicotine and nicotine salts rather than sort of freebase nicotine. [00:08:32] And what that does is it makes it smoother and easier for folks to handle and actually get deliver more nicotine than combustible tobacco. [00:08:41] So it's really you know not a product that we want our youth using we don't want any of our youth using nicotine at all. Scott Seaman [00:08:51] So for parents that are watching this video right now or the principals who've had a student sitting in their office and they get the comment “oh, it's just flavored vape.” [00:09:01] What do the parents say to that? [00:09:03] What should principals be counselling students when they're getting the argument that that's just a flavored vape? John Wiesman [00:09:09] Well there is no just flavored vape. [00:09:11] That's the message and it is not safe. [00:09:14] Like I said there are oftentimes heavy metals in this liquid as well and other toxic chemicals and even some of the flavorings can cause what we call popcorn lung, which is these components get deep into the lungs and into the smallest areas of the lungs and they cause inflammation. [00:09:33] And that leads to a thing called popcorn lung which got its name from the flavored microwave popcorn has some of this flavoring in it and the workers who were around that get this condition of popcorn lung. [00:09:48] And so flavor is not safe, that's the message. Scott Seaman [00:09:54] So as parents and principals again, you know it's pretty easy to tell when a students under the influence of alcohol. [00:10:02] It used to be pretty easy to detect a student who is high from marijuana. [00:10:09] What are some of the behaviors that parents should be looking for if a student starting to develop a nicotine addiction? [00:10:15] I mean what are their specific behaviors that are obvious? [00:10:18] What should parents be looking for that telltale signs maybe that a student's heading down this road? John Wiesman [00:10:23] Yes Scott it's a tricky thing with this because sometimes you know the initial use of nicotine can actually make you feel good and you may not notice anything. [00:10:34] But when you start seeing signs of addiction so those things where somebody might have a craving for nicotine, or they're going out of their way to get nicotine products, that's a sign that one is addicted. [00:10:48] And then if one stops that you've got the withdrawal symptoms that happen, I mean anxiety that can go along with this, depression, anger, you can have sleeplessness. [00:11:00] So this sort of disrupted a pattern of behavior might be a concern. [00:11:05] But you know it's so insidious that I think really part of what you have to do is you have to talk to your kids about both well nicotine, tobacco, and vape. [00:11:15] And really that these things are harmful, and we know that for younger kids especially these middle school early high school, they listen to their parents. [00:11:25] They actually care what their parents have to say. [00:11:27] So it's really important that parents, that principals, teachers in the classroom have the conversation with their students. Scott Seaman [00:11:37] Over whelming. [00:11:39] When they think about principaling today we hear a lot from the field that principals are finding these vape products everywhere. [00:11:52] Backpacks, they can get them at local shops, what are the some of the different vehicles you're seeing? [00:12:00] In other words if I've got a principal who’s out there and they're opening a backpack, what is a vape thing look like? John Wiesman [00:12:06] Right, well you know they used to look much like a long cylinder that might look more like a cigarette, you know an electronic version of that. [00:12:15] But again the industry is just really moving in a different direction. [00:12:20] Now these products like Juul really look like USB devices that you plug into your computers and frankly you do plug them into your computers to recharge the battery. [00:12:31] And they come with these skins that you can put on it this coverings which are oftentimes very bright colored, attractive to youth and to folks. [00:12:41] So when you're looking for these products yes, you're looking for regular combustible tobacco that you might see products that look more like an electronic cigarette. [00:12:52] But now you even have to be thinking about what looks like a USB device. [00:12:56] And you know this is the danger because in these devices now there's often very little aerosolization and really no smell with this. [00:13:06] And these are not just products that often have nicotine but THC or marijuana can also now be delivered through these products and I'm confident that the principals out there are seeing this in their school setting as well and that's why we really jump on this really early on both in terms of identifying if we're seeing this and intervening early, but it's also why raising the age for the sale of tobacco and vape to 21 is so important, we just have to keep this out of our kids hands. Scott Seaman [00:13:37] Yeah. [00:13:37] And I have to say on behalf of all the principals in the state that the legalization of marijuana in the state has been a complete nightmare for school administrators, and now because it is so transferrable in these new products it's really made policing marijuana products in the schools nearly impossible. [00:13:55] Principals are really in the business of prevention and trying to get kids help. [00:14:00] But these products are making the detection in their schools very very difficult. John Wiesman [00:14:06] Yeah we're very concerned about that. [00:14:08] The Healthy Youth Survey and thank you to all those principals out there who work on administering the Healthy Youth Survey, this is where we get this important kind of data both about the risk and protective factors of kids. [00:14:20] We have data that will be coming out later this year, so our data are about two years old. [00:14:25] But in terms of marijuana for example we're seeing that the perceived risk of marijuana going down. [00:14:32] We had not yet seen a rise in youth in marijuana use but we have seen the perception of risk go down which often precedes the increase of the use. Scott Seaman [00:14:42] The next ways. [00:14:44] So again I'm just going back to trying to help principals and parents determine whether their students are headed down this road. [00:14:52] What does a vape product or that you've mentioned a little packet of fluid or cylinder of fluid, what's the market value? [00:15:01] I mean if a son or daughter is asking for 10 bucks to go to Taco Bell should parents eyebrows be going up if its asking for 10 or 15? [00:15:11] what does it cost the student to have this new habit? John Wiesman [00:15:13] They can be very inexpensive. [00:15:15] I mean single use devices as a way of starting and experimenting can be a matter of a couple of dollars. [00:15:21] And so yes, you need to be concerned. [00:15:24] Yes, the products go from a couple of dollars to you know you can spend 100 dollars or more on a fancy vape device but they're basically they are affordable to every single student in your schools. Scott Seaman [00:15:38] Again, scary. [00:15:42] So, you know a little bit about us as an association what can we be doing to partner with you and helping go after this, what we see as an epidemic? John Wiesman [00:15:54] Well there are a number of things. [00:15:56] So we do have this bill that's going before the legislature and we know you all have been very supportive about raising the age for the sale to 21. [00:16:05] Legislative session starts on Monday, January 14th and on Tuesday we have a hearing in the House Health Care Committee and on Friday in the Senate. [00:16:15] But the stories you shared earlier about what principals are seeing in the schools, those are the stories that your local elected officials need to hear your state representatives and senators. [00:16:26] They need to understand the challenges that you have in your school system and why this is so important. [00:16:33] And they need to hear from you that keeping tobacco and vape products out of that social network where they're getting this is going to be incredibly helpful to your job. [00:16:44] And that means you know seeing to it that we raise the age to 21. [00:16:48] So that's one thing folks can do. [00:16:51] I think another thing is obviously educate the parents and your students about this. [00:16:59] But I would also say that when you encounter this and I think a lot of folks are in this direction rather than treating it as a discipline problem, treat it as a health problem. [00:17:12] You know that's what this is, nicotine is an addiction. [00:17:16] And with youth developing brains their brains are really primed to be addicted to nicotine. [00:17:23] The earlier folks use it the more likely they are to become addicted. [00:17:27] And that's why frankly when you see adult smokers most of them started before twenty one you see very people who start later and in part that's brain development. [00:17:38] So do your best to treat this as a health issue and connect your students up to resources on quitting and just I think take it as the serious problem that it is. [00:17:51] It's not to be really taken lightly. Scott Seaman [00:17:54] And not to put you on the spot but what are some of those resources I mean where could we point principals to help help them point parents in other directions? John Wiesman [00:18:04] I suspected you might ask me that so I brought a few notes to make sure I would get this right. [00:18:08] Well one thing you can do is certainly reach out to our Tobacco and Vapor Product Prevention Control Program at the Department of Health and our Website is www.doh.wa.gov as one resource for information. [00:18:25] For more information as well that you can share with teachers, students, parents, the Surgeon General's report on e-cigarettes is really important that came out in 2016 and the Food and Drug Administration has an e-cigarettes campaign and materials for teachers specifically Scholastic has free resources for teachers on tobacco and vape products and use of those and prevention as does the Stanford Tobacco Prevention Tool Kit. [00:18:57] So you can probably just you know look that up on the web the Stanford Tobacco Prevention Tool Kit. [00:19:03] And then for students who you've run into who are using vape and are essentially addicted calling the state quit line, youth can do that, they can do that anonymously and that number is 1-800 QUIT NOW. [00:19:20] So 1-800 QUIT NOW is the tobacco cessation line and vape. Scott Seaman [00:19:25] I can almost see that number being put up right on the screen as you were saying. John Wiesman [00:19:29] That would be really helpful. Scott Seaman [00:19:30] That would be really helpful. [00:19:33] Well John we can't thank you enough for coming and spending the time with us to just help create some awareness out there. [00:19:38] This is going to be really powerful information. [00:19:42] Whenever we have a guest in the studio I love to ask some other questions. John Wiesman [00:19:46] Great. Scott Seaman [00:19:46] So I hope you're fine with that. [00:19:49] One of my favorite questions to always ask a guest is did you ever have a favorite teacher or coach in your life and maybe who that person was or why they were a favorite? John Wiesman [00:19:58] And that's a great question. [00:19:59] So I attended a school system in this small town where in about two buildings you know was k-8th grade and then the high school was in another place so it was a number of classrooms all within a small sort of campus. [00:20:17] I had a lot of teachers actually who I would say were a favorite teachers or folks. [00:20:24] And for me the important I think characteristics about this were they were approachable, they showed that they cared about me not just my academics but who I was as an individual, and encourage me to sort of grow and challenge myself and built sort of that trusting relationship with me such that if I had a challenge at school, or you know something that maybe for whatever reason I couldn't go to my parent with I know if there was this trusted adult who I could have some safety in, and reach out to and they could help me get the resources I needed. [00:21:00] That to me sort of were the qualities around me and yes they were good at teaching, they could encourage me to be intellectually stimulated, but it was also that human relation piece which I think is just so important. Scott Seaman [00:21:16] Yeah. [00:21:16] And I could see that relationship being super important nowadays with kids as they face some of these issues with social media but also addiction issues. John Wiesman [00:21:25] You know a few years ago I had a chance to be a principal for a day down in Clark County when I was the health director down there. [00:21:31] And it is clearly a different world than when I was in school and so to the principals who are out there, thank you for what you do. [00:21:39] I had no idea really of what your jobs were at this point in time until I had a chance to follow a principal around for a day and just see the challenges that you were faced with but also the great possible rewards. Scott Seaman [00:21:53] We encourage all of our principals to invite their local representative in for a day. [00:21:58] So that's great that you did that. John Wiesman [00:21:59] That would be fantastic and I should do that with my health directors across the state and local health departments I should do that as well. Scott Seaman [00:22:05] That would be a great idea. [00:22:07] The other question I always like to ask and you've kind of already mentioned this a little bit is, looking back can you name a principal that was in your life that you would classify as a favorite principal? John Wiesman [00:22:19] Well I've had essentially three principals one in the K-12 years which was pretty stable, I think and then two in different high schools. [00:22:29] And I must confess I can't come up with their names but it goes back to this sort of experience that I had at the school being a principal for a day. [00:22:40] When I observed that principal sort of being and this was in an elementary school that principal being at the door when the students came in and said welcome, Hey Johnny It is really good to see you here today. [00:22:53] That to me just touched my heart and said that's in part what this is about making students feel welcome in this environment and letting them know that somebody noticed them that they noticed they're here today and they might have even noticed if they're not looking so well or they seem sad that piece about not being in the background I think is incredibly important. [00:23:15] So if I could go back to school today and look for a favorite principal you know that would stand out as well as all the academic training and working with with teachers and in running a building awesome. Scott Seaman [00:23:28] Well again John thanks for being here. [00:23:30] We really appreciate it. [00:23:32] The principals in our state appreciate it and we hope this resource turns out to be super useful for them, but even more so for the parents and kids they're serving. [00:23:40] So thanks for your time, we really appreciate it. John Wiesman [00:23:42] Absolutely and thanks to all of you for your support on this and many other health issues. Scott Seaman [00:23:47] Well that's it from all of us here at AWSP. [00:23:50] Keep up the great work for kids and we’ll see you next time.