Matthew: Hello, and welcome once again to an episode of the I Double mp, the Inter Millennium Media Project Podcast. My name is Matthew Porter. Ian: And I'm Ian Porter. Matthew: I'm his dad. He's my son. And we've returned to movies again. Ian: Yes, Matthew: we've returned to post apocalyptic Australia. Ian: Our road trip continues. Matthew: Yes, it does. And we're we're headed back to Mad Max land. Ian: We are oh This is kind of the one that it's weird This is the one that is the most well remembered, but I don't know if it's because of anything within it Matthew: Oh, that's interesting. You find it the most well remembered. Ian: Yes Kind of I see a lot of like Mad Max fans Matthew: Yeah, Ian: who know the second one The Road Warrior better than they do the third. Mm hmm And I know a lot of pop culture people who know the third better than they do the first or second. Matthew: I could see where that would be the case. In some ways the third movie, Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome, took Mad Max out of the kind of indie film world in which the first two movies lived. This was Mad Max Goes Hollywood. Ian: And in more ways than one. Matthew: Yes. Ian: Oh, there's some interesting things to discuss, especially now that we're into the third of a trilogy that later expanded, but I'm going to treat these as a trilogy. And how the three of them talk to each other and talk about the same sort of concepts are fascinating. but. This is Beyond Thunderdome, which I will just immediately say is the most 80s title Ever to 80s. Matthew: It is it is Ian: It's not just like Mad Max the cool location name It's Mad Max the cool location name and so much more Goodness Matthew: There is so much about this that is so incredibly 80s, I mean it's, it was released right smack in the middle of the 80s, and, I mean it stars Tina Turner. Ian: Yes! Matthew: As this Auntie Entity, it's got, it's got Angry Anderson as her henchman. Ian: So many, so many things about this. And we've got you know, I don't know if we want to wait until we reach it in the story, but let's wait. But the name itself, Beyond Thunderdome, has become iconic because of just something beyond Thunderdome or getting beyond Thunderdome becomes a punchline for so many other things. Matthew: Or just something dome has become a big deal. Ian: Just the dome concept. Oh, goodness. If there was an issue about how many things get dome on the end. It would become Domegate and the sheer linguistic force of those two name combinations would implode. Matthew: So this is a movie that in some ways it makes a great deal of sense because it's showing the world of Mad Max some significant time after the events of The Road Warrior. And Max is still out there wandering the wastelands. His main goal seems to be survival and And yet he's not driving a car. Ian: Yeah, this is a Mad Max sans vehicle. Matthew: Right, he is, he's got a vehicle, but it's, it's being pulled by camels. And it's essentially he's living in a camper or a tiny home that's pulled across the desert by camels. But he doesn't keep it very long because it is taken from him by a a pilot and a little kid who apparently stake out the trade routes and steal vehicles and stuff from travelers when they can. Ian: And that's the start of where this movie really is Immediately presenting its different kind of narrative. I will say Matthew: yes Ian: Because and I'm gonna get into the deep things because I want to reference all the times this happens The first movie is an urban legend. It is the story of something in a town is the story of a man He is a singular entity. He is A person with a beginning, a middle, and an end, in that sense. Matthew: Oh, okay. Not an urban legend as in a supernatural story set in a modern day. Ian: No yeah, no, I mean like, like the type of fable it is. Matthew: Okay. Ian: Is this like, story of a local man, a local hero kind of story. Music: Mm hmm. Ian: The second one has a whole lot of things I want to call high fantasy esque. What with this grand caravan, with this besieged city, with this wandering knight of a forgotten order. It is much more the classical high fantasy in a, I want to call Tolkien esque sense. Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome is Mad Max. The movie, and I mean that in the, it is Mad Max attempting to discuss cinematic fable. A lot of its, a lot of its moments are much more grounded in what we would consider more modern storytelling in that sense, but in a deconstructive way. Matthew: So we're kind of seeing a progression of storytelling and now we've gotten to. Storytelling through film, and that's the essence of this movie, is storytelling through movies. Ian: Exactly. If each of them are a different type of story humanity tells itself, we have reached the televised age. Okay, in the Mad Max way. Yeah, and immediately just what we see here this establishing shot and this Pulling the man down to nothing and stripping him not just of his vehicle But as he gets into barter town of all the weapons of all these things is so much more Deliberately set up in some ways and so much more visually establishing in ways that I found fascinating, coming from that perspective of the, if this is a fable, how is this telling us this part? And by seeing everything he loses, we see everything he has to gain back. So much more clearly. Matthew: Yeah, and that is the the central drive that starts this off is he's apparently doing okay traveling around with the few possessions he has and a monkey that he's got and Ian: Yeah, the monkey is just kind of a oddity Matthew: with his camels in his wagon and he loses all of that So you're right, it becomes getting that back, getting back to where he was, not solving anybody else's problems, just getting back to where he was in terms of his survival capability, that's his, his goal, at least initially. Ian: Yes. Matthew: And that's, that's a pretty compelling goal. Ian: It's a it's a compelling goal, and it setting up this kind of establishing him as this character who surprises and is bigger in some ways than all the other people around him, Matthew: right? Ian: Max has become a little bit more than just a man. He's starting to become this legendary hero in that sense. He's starting to be protagonist just by being. Matthew: Yes, but it's hard to say he's legendary when really nobody's heard of him. Ian: Yes. Matthew: And there's not a lot of travel and not a lot of shared stories across distance. So it's hard to be a legend under those circumstances. We see that by the end of the movie, he's clearly become a legend. Kind of the way he had for a different group of people by the end of The Road Warrior. Ian: Yeah. Matthew: But he starts out as, as somebody. Who is unknown and easy to underestimate. Ian: And he wanders, with nothing to his name now, to Barter Town. Matthew: Oh, and it's got to be acknowledged that the pilot, who takes all of his stuff Ian: Oh, yes. Matthew: And his kid, the pilot, Jedediah, is played by Bruce Spence, who played the gyro captain in The Road Warrior. And Jedediah Jr. is played by Adam Cockburn, who played the feral kid in The Road Warrior. Ian: Which That also adds to the little bit of how much is actually continuing. Does Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome actually start an actual physical time after? The Road Warrior or, or are we getting stories about a man later? Matthew: Yeah. Ian: Are the, yeah, that's where the, the, the fable and the legend part also comes in where there's parts of even the first Mad Max that are, that feel like they are told after the fact. Like we're being told the origin or we're being told stories of this one person at different places. Yeah. But the, the edges between them and where one becomes the other is so fuzzy, they start to look like versions of each other. A man wanders into a town, he's proven to be strong, the leadership has its issues, and as it starts to fall apart, he saves the people, saves some, brings justice to others, and leaves. Matthew: Yeah, they're different stories, and yet we want them to have the same structure, so in every story, He starts out as a nobody that no one knows and ends as a legend and he starts again There's something about this. I don't know if i've talked about this before but I tend to think of it as the pipe down kid school of continuity It's like, you know, you're telling a story and And you start out with well, he's wandering the wasteland and he has nothing But but grandpa, I thought he had all this stuff that and all these people who knew him because of his past adventures You know quiet kid you want a story or not? Ian: [Laughter] Matthew: And and you're so you're right. We're we're we have to start at that same place We have to go to that same place and what's different is the story that gets him from nobody to legend Ian: Yes. I will say, of all of the places we've seen, even from the first Mad Max, Barter Town and Underworld are some of the best fleshed out, and they kind of do imply a counter to what we were just describing, where the level of advancement and the level of ingenuity and repair are. That we see, the amount of societal reconstruction is greater every movie. Matthew: It is, and that's, I think there are interesting reasons behind that. It's as if, by the time of Beyond Thunderdome, people have given up on the world that was. Ian: Yes. Matthew: In, in Mad Max, the police force was attempting to preserve what was left of the world. Keep it from completely disappearing. In The Road Warrior, there was this idea that everything is not lost. We can hold on to and bring back something of what we knew. If we only had the gasoline, if we only could travel to where we need to go, everything will be fine because we can get back to the way things were. By the time Beyond Thunderdome comes along, by the time this story is set, it's clear, that's never gonna happen. Ian: Yes. Matthew: And some people have decided, we can't look back, we have to build something new starting from where we are. And that's what Tina Turner's character, Auntie Entity, has done. Ian: Yes. Matthew: In creating Barter Town. Ian: It's a place of trade. It's a, it's a city with lights. Matthew: It's a city with rules and laws. Ian: With rules and laws. And it is a city that invites all as long as you can give something. And you can, as its name suggests, you can get. Something if you can give something and Max comes in with nothing and kind of proves that what he can give is physical force Yes, and Like I I can put in effort and I can beat up any guy you throw at me Matthew: He's got and it's and it's not just force its skill He has skills that he's honed some of him some of them from his training and experience as a police officer Some of them based upon his experience in survival And even that is kind of discounted by some of the folks in Barter Town until they realize he might be useful for a very particular purpose that they've got in mind. Ian: Mm hmm. Matthew: Because you mentioned the other part of Barter Town, which is Underworld. Ian: Underworld. The entire system of infrastructure that run, that helps Barter Town run, the food and the fuel, are the giant subterranean pig farms and refineries. of Underworld, making and burning methane gas. Matthew: And that's what everything runs on, is methane. Yes. And that's the, that's the, the world of Master Blaster, who controls Underworld. And there's this tension between Auntie Entity, who is the governor and lawgiver, and the person everyone looks to to maintain order, and the fact that none of this would be possible without the energy that is Provided by Master Blaster and Underworld. Ian: Mm-Hmm. . And there's this intense like ri like not rivalry, but this intense back and forth between them as Master of Master Blaster, the dwarf who rides around on blaster, his giant bodyguard. , they make deals. They they cause embargoes that shut down the power above and. What Auntie Entity wants is I need you to kill Blaster so that master is less powerful and has to listen, Matthew: right? We need his knowledge, but we have to get rid of of blaster so that we can control master. Ian: And It is a little fast paced here. But the answer is that they need to send Max down into the underworld to work, so that he can get the information. And while there he finds his old vehicle and he learns information about how to fight them, but I forget how the actual fight gets started. Matthew: Well, I want to back up a little bit. Okay. Just to talk a little bit more about the tone of this movie, because there are, this is another key way in which, this differs from the previous two movies even more so than parts of The Road Warrior this movie is funny. Speaker 6: This is you're right Matthew: humor in this movie when When the the powers that be in barter town decide well, let's let's check out this guy See if he's he's good for this special mission. We've got taking out a blaster he has to go through the the entry kind of the Port of entry for barter town and he has to Check all of his weapons and leave them behind And there's this long scene where he is pulling weapon after weapon and he's got so many guns and knives and Everything you can imagine it. Yes Every time you think it's going to stop he reaches for a different set of pockets or the other boot and pulls out more Stuff to the point where the other characters are watching and saying are you for real? Yes, and You There's another scene, I think it's towards the beginning there as well, where someone challenges him and he pulls out his trademark sawed off shotgun and shoots, doesn't shoot the guy, just shoots the weird dilly bopper headdress the guy's wearing. Yes. And the way the guy just deflates, like, yeah, I liked that hat, you shot my hat. Ian: My hat! Yes, the you shot my hat face. Just this, oh, cause he takes it off and he pets what's remaining of it. Yes. The fringe of his hat. Like, oh, there there. Matthew: And that, that does two things. It establishes the kind of reflexes Max has and still has. But it also, it's just funny the way it's shot, the way it's presented. Ian: Yes, Matthew: And there's a lot of that in this movie. This movie isn't afraid to be funny. It isn't afraid to be emotional and sentimental and dramatic, but it's not afraid to be funny. And to some extent that is, it doesn't take itself as seriously as the smaller indie movies sometimes seem to have to take themselves. Ian: Yes, that's another, that is definitely an aspect where it's like the, the level of like, it gets away with its drama and it still has its violent fight scenes. Matthew: Oh, no question. Ian: But I want to say they're like, they are tempered overall by the fact that there is that comedy moment, by the fact that that level of unreality is emphasized. Matthew: Mm hmm. And it helps maintain the tension that we go from humorous scenes like that to some of these action scenes, not long after what we just talked about. Max meets Auntie Entity, finds out what this job is, and, and if he takes out Blaster, they'll supply him with a vehicle and fuel and food and water, whatever he needs. He'll make that deal. But before he gets to that point, he's shown in to, to meet Auntie Entity, and then he's attacked. By everybody. Yeah, and he does not. I don't think he kills any of the attackers, even though they're using lethal force against him. But he evades all of them and and takes all of them out of commission until Ian: I thought I thought the harpist dies. Matthew: Oh, you might be right because of like, he missed he redirects somebody else's shot or something like that. Right? You're right. It's not a it's not a bloodless fight. But that was the audition. They've tried to get other people to do this and none of them survived the audition. I guess the idea being if you can't survive four guys attacking you in here, you're not going to survive if you go up against Blaster. Ian: Right. Matthew: But once he passes the audition and makes the deal, the way to take out Blaster is to pick a fight. Speaker 6: Yep. Matthew: So he waits until that Knight and Master Blaster are driving or riding around on Max's vehicle, which, you know, they bought or were bartered from the, the pilot, I suppose. And Max says, essentially, that's mine. Give it back and starts a fight because there's one way fights are settled in Barter Town. Ian: But, and I want to stop before there because there's something on the, the idea of this being Mad Max discussing. Movies and TV and our, our, our cinema narrative, and we see something interesting, which I want to compare, which is Auntie Entity has this grand spot above everything else with these antennas on top that can broadcast out in these speakers. Yep. She's got this ethereal floating vibe. There's this little bit of, there's this little bit of like classy. like luxury still going on for her. Matthew: Right. She has water and fruit and everything she needs, and she's literally looking over and supervising the entire town. Ian: And she describes having these big grand plans, these far reaching ideas, and it took me a little bit to click it in my mind, but she became, in my mind, the representation of being the studio. Meanwhile, when we get down into Underworld, Master Blaster is this rough and dangerous person. But he talks about all the technical aspects of everything going on. They understand what is and how it does. They're this Crew and this industry behind it. And so in this story about art and our narratives as in our media, we've got industry and studio fighting each other and being too inescapable from each other parts of the whole. And it started making me realize it's like, Oh, There's this like, if the industry, if the crew goes on strike, the studio doesn't have an idea. But without the things the studio is bringing in, the crew doesn't have anything to work towards. They have to work with each other. And so like this little bit of an inkling of a metaphor the entire thing had. Sunk its teeth in on this viewing for me and I wanted to share that as it grows because it's not done growing yet Matthew: I like that so she is Warner Brothers, but yes, but Master Blaster are the director George Miller and the Dean Semir the the director of photography and all the people who actually Hands on, make the movie work. Ian: Exactly. Matthew: I like that. Ian: And so this also makes this odd like, oh, that's mine. You stole my idea of fight aspect. Such an interesting thing. And it leads into the wildly cinematic element that is Thunderdome. Because Thunderdome is weaponized. I'm just gonna call it now. Thunderdome and the entire legal structure. of Barter Town is Weaponized Game Show. Matthew: Oh, no question. They make that No Ian: question. They make that so brilliantly clear. Because Thunderdome as the as the pop cultural osmosis was probably let all of her audience know has a simple rule two men enter One man leaves. Matthew: Yes, and you've got Doctor Dealgood who we've seen before as the auctioneer But he's also the MC and game show host for Thunderdome and he's welcoming people to another edition of Thunderdome Speaker 4: I'm at home. Exactly Matthew: two guys with a dispute. We know the rules we solve things here and he has this really interesting Speech about what Thunderdome represents. And, and spinning this in a very positive way because he talks about people, you know, to summarize his speech, people always have disputes. And what happened in the old world was arguing got to fighting and fighting got to warring and now the world is blown up and we're worried about hard rain and everything we knew is gone. We're going to do things differently. People have a dispute. It's settled here, and it ends here. Two men enter, one man leaves. And that is almost almost a scripture or a sutra. This mantra of of two men enter, one man leaves. But he gives that meaning. Ian: Yeah, and the audience starts chanting it. Yes, but there is this very much like we saw this We saw this, you know The world getting angrier and still having this fighting in the previous one and this is a town that has built itself on putting all Of that fight in one place so that it doesn't show up anywhere else, Matthew: right they're not only giving up on the idea of bringing back the, the world that was, they're trying to spot the problems with the world that was and avoid them. And this is one of their ways of avoiding them, wisely or not. This is a way of keeping fights contained because fights are always going to be. Ian: And of course, two men enter. You can't have master and blaster. So it's just, Blaster versus Max. Right. Matthew: And Blaster is huge and has this iron helmet and you know, almost twice Max's weight. Ian: Yes. And Thunderdome itself is just a wild gladiatorial arena. It is two men. Hooked to bungee harnesses that are strapped to the ceiling in You know those kids Oh like circular just like a dome jungle gyms It's like an oversized adult version of those Bungee harnesses and the walls are covered in weapons Oh my goodness, this is a Dungeon Master's, like, dream location, idea wise. This is something This feels like it was cooked up in the middle of a head cold. As the Nyquil kicked in. What was George Miller thinking? It's brilliant. Matthew: And the, the only rules are The two men enter one man leaves, get to a weapon, take out your opponent. Ian: Yeah. And, but there is a little bit of since, the audience is watching. There is a love of when it is not quick or, or simple. When the fight has something going, it is entertainment as much as it is law, Matthew: right? It is, it is law. It is liturgy and it is entertainment. Ian: Mm-Hmm. . But Max has a secret weapon, because he saw something when he was down in Underworld for a bit, setting up to pick this fight. He learns that Blaster is sensitive to sound, and so he's constantly trying to fight with a whistle, trying to get it and get a chance to blow it, so that he can disable Blaster and take him down. Matthew: And fortunately, they do set this up early as he's picking up possessions of his that the monkey is throwing out of the wagon as it's being stolen. One of them is this little bosun's whistle. And he, he keeps that handy and realizes that's that's valuable and that extends the fight in Thunderdome into this long varied action scene where they're, they're bouncing around on the bungees and they're, they're getting weapons and cutting through the bungees and, a lot of reversals back and forth as to who has the advantage with what weapon. And some of this is almost slapstick. You've got Blaster chasing Max in circles around Thunderdome because Max is just carrying a a dead chainsaw while Blaster has a big blade. And then Max gets the chainsaw started so the fight goes to the other direction and he's chasing Blaster. Ian: And I will say it is refreshing, even for how old this movie is, it is refreshing to see a wire work fight scene where the wires are diegetic. Music: Yes. Ian: And like the I got tangled in my own harness is an actual plot point of danger and not a cut. Retake the shoot. I love that. Matthew: And they draw this out as much as they can with Max getting enough of an advantage that it's time to use the whistle and then dropping the whistle and then having to find it again. And another action beat leads him within or reach of the, of the whistle. And then he's pulled away from it. That's almost stretched out too much, but not quite too much. It works. Ian: Yeah, but the end of the battle, Max defeats Blaster and He feels too much sympathy, having fought this man. He sees that there's This man is actually more like a young child. Matthew: Yeah, he, he Blaster's helmet is knocked off in the fight. And now that he sees Blaster's face Blaster is maybe very big and very strong, but he's clearly intellectually handicapped. Ian: Yes. Matthew: And he is somebody who does not have really the understanding of what's happening, what's going on, and Max can't bring himself to kill this man because, even though he made this deal with Auntie Entity to do so, even though the rules of Thunderdome are there's only one survivor. Ian: So he calls out that this wasn't the deal. Matthew: Right. And this shows, as much as Max is a survivor, as much as Max would like to think of himself as only out for himself and as a survivor, he has points at which he cannot do what would be necessary to survive. The easiest thing for him to do would be to kill Master, excuse me, to kill Blaster, take his reward from Auntie Entity and leave. But he can't bring himself to do that. Ian: Yeah, but revealing this causes issues. Matthew: Right. He not only has broken the rules of Thunderdome, but he gives away the fact that he made a deal with Auntie Entity to kill Blaster. And that, everybody thinks is a little sketchy. Ian: But the bigger issue is that he refuses to fulfill the deal. Matthew: That's right. You can say the deal was moral or not, just or not, but it was a deal. He and Auntie Entity shook on it and he's breaking the deal Ian: and deals are sacred in barter town Matthew: There's another mantra. They've got Ian: bust a deal face the wheel Matthew: This is like the special bonus round of their game show. Ian: Yes, which results in I love the I love the wheel. The wheel is one of the wildest props in all of Mad Max, because it is this uneven, absolutely somebody was watching Wheel of Fortune, because this is exactly what it is. It's this wedged wheel with an indicator that is spun. It looks like it's made out of an old children's, like, Manual merry go round or something, Matthew: It's been been cobbled together from that in a welding shop somewhere and it's worth slowing this down and watch seeing all of the different possibilities on this wheel. They include acquittal. It's not a big wedge, but it includes acquittal. Ian: I've got the list here. Matthew: Oh, good, Ian: it's okay. Gulag, acquittal, hard labor, spin again, forfeit goods, death, underworld, amputation. Life Imprisonment, Auntie's Choice. Matthew: So bust a deal, face the wheel. And again, we get all the audience chanting this along with Dr. Dealgood. Ian: Yes, and Dr. Dealgood has an entire other little speech at the front of the wheel, too. As Max is led in in chains. We'll be right back. Interestingly enough, he gets gulag on the wheel, but that has apparently become its word for, become Barter Town's word for banishment. Matthew: Well, it's more than just banishment, because he's bound and put on a horse or a donkey, and it's driven out into the desert. Ian: Yeah, he's put on a horse backwards with a mascot head on him. Oh Matthew: yeah, it's this giant paper mache head. Ian: Yeah. And sent off into the desert, and I'm just looking and it's like, Do you have a supply of horses and papier mâché heads? Barter Town is doing better than I thought. This is interesting. Matthew: Very odd. Ian: Very odd. Matthew: I mean, it's essentially, death by desert is the sentence, but They've made it festive? I don't know. Yeah. Ian: . Insert Five Nights at Freddy's soundtrack. Do do do do do do do do do do. Matthew: That would have fit. Ian: It would've fit the big mascot head going on. But Max is able to wiggle his way free before something under the sand eats the horse. Matthew: Right. 'cause eventually the horse falls over out of exhaustion. Yeah. Which I guess is part of that, how this is supposed to work. Ian: Yeah. I guess the only thing you've got is what the horse, I guess, like, Hmm. Yeah. Matthew: There's a lot of, loose quicksand type. Sand flows in this desert. It'll swallow this horse, but he manages to, to evade that, and yet he's out there with no water. Ian: And he starts wandering, but collapses and is found soon after by a young kid. Matthew: Right, this mysterious figure goggles and head wrapping and a long staff, but finds him and takes him somewhere. Ian: Calling out to others with a signaling, and He arrives to a tribe of kids. Yes. Matthew: They take him and they and he wakes up and he's in this canyon with a river and Ian: green plants. Matthew: Yes. Green plants and fruit trees and a whole bunch of kids ranging from toddlers to middle teenage years. Ian: And they are so excited to see him. And he's welcomed. Yeah, he's welcomed to planet earth. Matthew: Yes. I finded him. Ian: I finded him This is where some of this some of the little bit of linguistic drift we heard with guzzoline Which I take it was just an Australian ism already But the linguistic drift is strong here, the language get chopped up, mix around. Matthew: And from these kids we get this shift into a whole different kind of world building. Ian: Yes. Matthew: Because they, they keep calling him Captain Walker. Ian: Mm hmm. Matthew: And it's, we knew you'd come back, Captain Walker. We've been ready for you. We've been keeping the records straight, and we've been ready to, ready to go. And just to, to prove that we've kept it straight, we'll tell you the story. And they tell the story of how they came to be there. Ian: But how did you tell the story in this, in this narrative? You have a box on a stick. With two little antenna sticks on top. Matthew: They've painted things on the walls to show the story, but to show the sequence, they use this little TV like frame to show picture after picture. It's this, they, this slight bits of memory of the way things used to be, and this sort of cargo cultish way to try to capture that in what they have and how they can tell stories. Ian: And this is this other part of, like, this is where it really sinks in, like, this is about that story changing, but still being presented via the medium. This is, I don't know exactly what they are. Are they audience? Are they artists? Are they potential? But they are part of this little conversation about this concept of discussions of how we tell stories, because they are using the format so clearly. It is so baked into how they tell it. Matthew: Right. Ian: But. We learn of the the plane that their families had been on crashing. We learn of Captain Walker, the pilot of the plane being this leader of the group as they got themselves together in this canyon. And we learn of the adults heading out to try to find something and then come back when they know it's safe to get the kids. Matthew: And they have never come back. Ian: And it's really vague how long that's been, but it's not been short. Matthew: It's not been short, but there's only so many years it could have been. Because the youngest of the children there must already have been born. But it's been at least a few years, because there are kids who might be six or seven or so, maybe a little maybe a little bit older are the youngest. So it's not clear, but that's a long time. If when the, when the, the adults left, the oldest were barely 10 years old yeah, this this was, you know, you look after your baby sister, we'll be back soon. And then eight years later, however many years the adults are not back. Ian: Yeah, that's a good point. But the kids expect that they'll be able to, you know, now fly a fly in the machine to Tomorrow Morrow Land. Matthew: Yes, Ian: which is just a view master of pictures of cities. Matthew: That's right. In addition to their their their cave paintings They've got View master slides of various. Yeah, Ian: I do want to know what that slide reel is called. Matthew: I get the impression it was cobbled together from a few different ones. Ian: Mm hmm, just city shots of different things, but they're wonderfully interesting and seeing this these little bits of like concepts without context Gaining this power and mythology to them is so fascinating Matthew: and the kids have also Taken some of the things they've got there's radio equipment from the plane and they've turned it into a breastplate that one of them wears with Fake headphones that they've put together. They've got a record album and an LP That they've suspended between strings that they can spin So, spitting this lp and flipping switches on the radio breastplate that he's wearing and trying to talk into his headset Because that's how you communicate. That's how captain walker used to communicate way back when we were on the plane So this must be how you communicate with captain walker and you Ian: watch You And you can see the little pieces of their society of the leader. But the kid with the record is almost this like monk. Matthew: Yes, he's like holding these Ian: religious, the cleric of this bunch, holding this religious artifact and reciting this prayer, right? That becomes this like, Roger over, can, can you read me Roger? Like this, like, The same sort of little pieces he can remember turning into this thing with a power and meaning beyond what it was. Matthew: And there's interesting parallels between what we see during that storytelling among the kids and what we saw in Barter Town. Because there are certain points in the story where all the kids chime in to Emphasize a special phrase in this story that you get the impression that they tell this story for one another Constantly so that they keep the reckoning straight and and these important Phrases that need to be underlined they all join in on just like everybody in barter town would chant two men enter one man leaves Ian: Yeah, Matthew: it was this importance of a common story to rebuilding anything be at barter town or being at Being this society the kids are have kind of cobbled together for themselves. Ian: Yeah, there's something There's something universal that the youngest and the oldest are all in that same Mindset that you know, it takes something of this sort of mind and mentality to survive in general but Max does not want to give these kids false hope. So he, he keeps, he keeps dismissing. He keeps denying. He Matthew: keeps telling, trying to explain he's not Captain Walker. There's no going home. There's no home to go to. You've got like the best place there is to live. You're gonna stay here. We're all gonna stay here. And we're gonna be thankful for it. And they don't want that because they have, They have had a mission for literally as long as they can remember, and now there's possibly a chance to do something about it, a chance to go to the home they can only imagine. And there's this great shot where we see the plane is still there, like on the other side of the canyon. Ian: Yes! Matthew: And out in the desert, and the kids all climb up on top of the plane and say, We're ready, Captain Walker! Time to get skyward! Ian: Like they'll fly it on the top like it's a dragon or something. No. And it's interesting, half of them listen and understand and they kind of, they're saddened, but they go back home and the other half get angry. Matthew: Right. He has added imbalance to what had been a very balanced society, because now there are factions. Those who Want to stay and they'll believe the guy they thought was Captain Walker and people who think, well, he was able to get from somewhere to here on foot. We can get somewhere on foot. It's better than staying here. Ian: And in the fight between these two as one group steals a bunch of supplies to go off on foot, but doesn't know the dangers between here and there. And the other half tries to. hold up and continue to use the resources they have, they both are ruined in this conflict. And Max has to fix what he broke in some ways. Matthew: He attempts to keep the group that wants to leave, keep them from leaving. And he does so by force. He knocks out the girl who is leading them and ties them up and just won't let them leave because he knows they'll die out there in the desert. Best case scenario is they make it as far as Barter Town and then Barter Town kills them. But then they escape. There's one character who is the, the outsider among all of these. Guy they call Screwloose, who paints his face and lives up in his own little alcove with strange bits of art around him. And I'm not entirely sure why, but he sneaks in at night and lets, lets go the people who want to leave and they leave. Ian: Mm hmm. He's kind of this, this dissident watcher of the entire group who comes down not in a, I support the people trying to leave, but in a, they should have the right to choose to. Matthew: Right. If the kid with the radio stuff is the, the official and accepted. Priest or cleric of the group. He is the mystic on the mountain who nobody quite understands But who seems to know things and see things no one else does Ian: Yes, that is exactly what but now that everything is been upended in one way or another They've got to do something. So Max leads The group to Barter Town, because at least if he's arriving with them, they might be able to do something, and he doesn't know the state Barter Town is in since he left it. Matthew: Right, he sets out with a few of the strongest people from the, the canyon, with as much water as they can carry, and finds the, the kids. And they, the kids, are just about to die in one of those sand slips that we saw consume the, the horse earlier, so. Yeah, he was right. One of the dangers that he predicted almost kills them, and would have killed them had he not shown up. Ian: But now they've got to they can't go back really in time, right? So they head on over and they find a barter town that is collapsing as well in its own way. Matthew: Yes and no Ian: Yes and no Matthew: and and we hadn't made this clear when Max refused to kill blaster Auntie Entity people did so now Auntie Entity is in control of master and forcing him to To keep the the energy running, but it's not going as smoothly You're right as it had been before even though there was that tension between Auntie Entity and master blaster It was a tension that worked there was a certain amount of balance there and now that balance is gone It's all about society's being thrown out of balance now that I think about it Ian: it is master Blaster Knew what the requirements were and he would shut things down out of pettiness But he would also shut then regulate things out of necessity yeah, and putting him off to the side where he can be made an example of and And made lesser means that they're losing the valuable information and it's harder to get the information they need and harder to get things working and running, Music: right? Ian: And so even though she has more power and she's attempting to grow and make her her grand plans for barter town come to life, they are hiccuping and faltering as the infrastructure underneath. Can't support what she is trying to do Matthew: and when Max and the kids get to barter town They go through one of the tunnels that leads directly into the underworld Music: Mm hmm, Matthew: and I'm not a hundred percent sure. I understand why that is I know they need supplies and things that they can only get from barter town because the rest everything surrounding it is is empty wilderness Empty desert, but are they trying to just get some stuff while avoiding Auntie Entity because she still has it out for Max It seems like they want Master, do they want to get him and take him somewhere because of his knowledge? It's not clear why they go in where they do and what they're trying to do. Ian: It's not quite clear I take it that after having had to give up all of his stuff before Max might be avoiding the fact that barter town Demands What can you give me? And so he's trying, he's trying to do that because it's not like the kids could give anything. Matthew: And he wouldn't be allowed to just walk in if people recognized him, I guess. Ian: Right. So he's trying to sneak in this way, hoping because the resources, the industry, the tools are down below, maybe he can find something useful. Maybe he can grab a vehicle and get it back to the kids. And, maybe find someone who can do something to help about the plane. Matthew: And maybe that's a part of it. Almost as soon as, as they go in, he's telling the kids there's this small man that we need to find and we need to get him and bring him out. And maybe it is that, well, he's got knowledge that would be useful in some way. Or that would be leverage against Auntie Entity and we can barter him back , in exchange for vehicles fuel. Ian: And there's a little bit also of sympathy of max feels bad for what he Did to blaster and there's a little bit maybe of I owe something getting master to this better place Matthew: And as Bad a character as master had been he's being horribly abused now that he doesn't have the protection of blaster Ian: We also did see that in a weird way master was well No, we were but master was shown to be a father to blaster Matthew: Yes, Ian: and so you also get the I have a bunch of kids You Who's the one person I've seen be a good dad? In the entirety of this. I've got a guy with technical skill and does some at least a little bit of parenting I have some I have a broke. I have a broken plane on a lot of kids. I can't handle on my own. Help me Like there's a couple of reasons it's a weird answer, but it's true Matthew: I'm trying to figure out how I feel about you seeing Master from Beyond Thunderdome as an example of good fatherhood. Ian: I didn't say good, I said best we've seen. Matthew: Okay, fair enough. Ian: Like, there's not a lot of good parenting anywhere, he's the best we saw so far. Matthew: Very good point. Something you might make note of in our discussion of this movie so far. , except for the vehicle that Max was, driving towed by camels, there have been no vehicles really, no cars, no car chases, no running highway battles, no highways in this Mad Max movie. It's all about combat and politics and stories like you were pointing out earlier, not about high speed fighting. Matthew: Yeah, it's not the same that changes the Ian: time to fix that. Matthew: Yes, we can do something about that It is a Mad Max. We can do you eventually need a George Miller high speed highway type Battle Ian: and you know what? That's excellent for an escape from barter town. Matthew: Yes, because Something that was seen earlier was kind of the main boiler apparatus in the underworld is actually a locomotive. Ian: Yeah. Matthew: It's stationary, but parked on train tracks there in the middle of the methane energy complex. Ian: And so they hop those train tracks and they race down them. And I think it, I don't know if it was the locomotive. Was it a locomotive or was it a modified like truck or something? Matthew: It's a, like a locomotive with one car that it's towing. It is cobbled together. It's not a pristine, you know, steam locomotive. But, yeah, it, I think it's, it's, it is. a locomotive and it seems to be Certainly its its suspension and its wheels are set to go on train tracks And fortunately the train tracks that it is stopped on here in underworld Continue out when they break through a wall For miles and miles across the desert in remarkably good repair, I have to say. If this hasn't been used for a decade or more. But instead of a highway battle, we get a railroad battle. Because once Max has disrupted the energy supply, Auntie Entity and her people realize what's going on and they, with their their methane powered turbine vehicles race to, to catch up with the train and get master back. Ian: . Someone had welded large steel plates onto Thomas's frame. He wasn't sure what to think of this. But yeah, the railroad battle is wild because this, this grand chase where there's only forward for our heroes, but all the vehicles are coming in from the other sides. It's very much the a, another take on the tanker battle from the second movie. Yes. Matthew: Yeah, it's the same kind of climactic final act. Ian: And it's another, it's another one of those points where that similarity becomes notable in a, is this the, is this a, of the same tale being told again? Is this a different story? There's a bit of question there in the mythology and fable aspect. Matthew: Yeah, I mean there are certain echoes there with it being about an energy supply and things like that. You can see how some of the Arthurian stories, it's clearly not the same story, but there are similar themes that are being hit or similar story beats that are being pulled in. Ian: It's definitely, it's exactly that kind of thing, but I will say this one has a lot of back and forth, but not a lot of memorable moments for me. Matthew: No. Most of the, the interesting moments aren't the maneuvering of the vehicles and the vehicle to vehicle combat that's so important in The Road Warrior. Instead, a lot of it is just what's happening on this tiny train. And people boarding the train to try to grab Master, who has found a little suit and hat and put them on. I almost get the impression that the train car there might have been where Master lived. So I kind of knew what was there. Ian: I also get the impression with the positioning and everything else It almost feels like barter town was forming and this train rolled into town with this conductor and set up its underground and it's like He arrived on his train and set up underworld And Barter Town was growing and formed more on top of it, and the two of them were fused in that way. Because of that, he lived in that train, it has his stuff, it has, he knows how to run it aspect. Matthew: That makes sense, and he, he kind of, he added some lights to Barter Town, and people started wondering, oh those are cool, where do I get some of those? And there, he gets more and more power. Ian: Yeah, what he arrived and traded at Barter Town was Underworld. Matthew: Right. Ian: But now Underworld is leaving. But yeah, he's got his little suit and everything. But it's not like the train tracks go on forever. Matthew: No. They do eventually end. And where they end Ian: Is the start of the movie! Matthew: Yes! They're straight, but they're circular. Because they lead to the headquarters of the pilot and Pilot Junior. Yes, who are trying to stick up the the train Speaker 5: and then realize quickly That's a bad idea Matthew: because they see who's chasing the train. Speaker 5: Yeah, dive out of the way get out of there. Matthew: So Max forcibly recruits the pilot. Ian: Mm hmm Matthew: to take all the kids and their stuff but then they can't they they're they have too much weight so they have to start getting rid of stuff and They still don't have enough runway. They don't have enough space to take off before they would crash into the pursuers in the cars. Ian: So Max you know, hops in his vehicle and makes a path. Matthew: Plays chicken with the the pursuit vehicles and barely manages to clear enough space for the plane to take off. Ian: And in this one little moment, max Actually fulfills the prophecy of Captain Walker, this man who arrived, who got them all on a plane, and flew them off to a grand city. And we watch Auntie Entity just see Max and what he's done. And leave him. Matthew: Right. Ian: Just respectfully leave him be. Matthew: She has this tiny speech at the end there which echoes how she reacted to Max when she first saw him. And at first, back in Barter Town at the beginning of the movie, she just dismissed him. He's just a raggedy man. And at the end he's saying, well we're quite a pair, aren't we raggedy man? Ian: Yes. Matthew: And she sees something in him that she recognizes as the same kind of drive. That led her to survive and to build Barter Town and try to reclaim something. But, it's not like she's bringing him back to civilization. Because she's just leaving him out there in the desert. And that's where people die. But, yeah, Ian: she goes off to go make, like, go fix up and restart making Barter Town. Matthew: Yep, Ian: without Matthew: Master. Barter Town, Ian: without Master now. But, this is where we leave Max. Matthew: Yeah. Ian: Which is kind of interesting. We talked about this, like, him regaining, and he doesn't quite. Matthew: No, he's got nothing at the end. I guess he's got whatever few things were left in the pilot's lair, which would at least help him survive for a little while. But he doesn't have his vehicle, doesn't have his camel, doesn't have his monkey, doesn't have any of the stuff that he had at the beginning. Ian: Yeah, but we do follow the kids. Yes. As they fly to the ruins of Sydney. Ah, the Australian movie is being specific about where it is now. I didn't expect that. But they arrive in the big city, and we get this years later, as the culture and the society of the kids has grown to fill the abandoned and destroyed buildings. Matthew: And they're repeating the tell, the history, just like we saw them do back in the canyon. But now it's a bigger story, and it's about how they came to be where they are. And that's essentially the movie we've been watching, is them telling the history. Ian: Yes. Matthew: Which echoes the way the structure of The Road Warrior is bookended. But I would like There's a really feral kid telling the story. Ian: Absolutely, and there's one last bit to the media aspect I want to point out. Yeah? We've seen all these things, but the final presentation is set up differently. It is rows of chairs, watching one person on an elevated stage with nothing else. Oh! At the end of the story, all about the industry of TV and movie, The final presentation of narrative is a stage play. Matthew: It's live theater, suddenly. Ian: It's live theater. Matthew: And there is something ecclesiastical about it. It does seem also like a a ritual. Ian: Yes. Matthew: But you're right, it's a stage play. Ian: It's a stage play. It ends saying, going back to the beginning and doing this fresh thing is a stage play. And I love that aspect. Matthew: Now, Here's a question. Ian: Yes. Matthew: The movie is not clear about this, but the only people who got on that plane were the kids who survived from among those who were ornery enough and focused enough to disregard what Max told them to do, and stay put. Did they have the pilot go back to the Canyon to get all the other kids? I'd like to think so, just so they would have more kids to start this city, Ian: I would like to think so as well, and part of what they say in that final story is that they, is that they light beacons across the city that Max or any other travelers can find their way. Matthew: , you get the impression that other people have found the city and this is becoming another kind of new society, like Barter Town was, built on different lines and with different priorities. But yeah, the, the, the They're keeping this lit for everybody, but the person they're really keeping these lights lit for is Max, who never shows up, but they keep the lights on for him. Ian: Absolutely. So, I like to think that they did send back. Music: Mm hmm. Ian: to get them. But I also could imagine them not. Yeah. Because they know that the kids who stayed can still have a good life there. Matthew: That's true. That is true. Ian: And there, and there is a bit of a, is it better for us all to be together? Is it better to hedge our bets? And know that there is , another group out there that is thriving as well, and it gives us better chances if we are both separate and able to thrive, and maybe if something goes wrong, the other one is still around. So there's a question there. Matthew: Maybe there's a trade route between the city and the canyon. Ian: Exactly. Who knows? Matthew: The city can provide. metal and materials and other things that are useful to the people who have chosen to live in the canyon. The canyon can help provide water and food for those who've chosen to live in the city. A lot of possibilities. I like the fact that they don't feel the need to make all that clear. They can be ambiguous about it. Ian: Oh yeah. Matthew: But I think we might be heading towards our final questions here. Ian: I think we are. I do want, I'm gonna say one last thing that I learned only after watching. And it made it a little more sad and sentimental. I realized There's a lot of this movie that was being worked on and thought of and written well before what happened here. But the fact that a major part of this story is a bunch of people waiting, and having this hope and admiration for someone after the crash of their vehicle, hits even harder knowing that this is the first film without producer Byron Kennedy. Who died in a helicopter crash two years earlier, and so there's this little bit of that reverence and mourning for this, this captain that is gone, and the crashed plane, that between that and the movie being for Byron in the credits roll, it has that little bit of an extra pang. And I want to acknowledge that because I think it did have impact on the way the story got told. Matthew: Yeah, that, that is important. You know, Kennedy's contributions to idea of Mad Max and creating the character, creating the story are it's, it's hard to overestimate those. And just have him. To have him lost from this it was a big blow, I'm sure. Ian: Yes. Matthew: So, well, stay tuned for our final questions about Ian: Yes! Matthew: Max Beyond Thunderdome. But in the meantime, if you if you like the IMM Project you should go to immproject. com. You can find our contact page if you want to get in touch with us by Discord email by actual postal mail. You'll find all of our back episodes If you want more and you want to support the imm project you can go to our patreon And get additional audio content as well as support us or just follow us free on patreon to keep Keep track of what's happening with us and you can also go to our shop if you want Strange and nerdy. T shirts, coffee mugs, notebooks, not only the IMMP logo, but also strange little inside jokes. Ian: You, you want an excellent other high concept way to fight your enemies and prove superiority? You like Thunderdome? Try Kosho. Matthew: Oh, yes, indeed. Ian: We've got Kosho merch. Matthew: And all of that is at immproject. com. And Ian, where can people find you? Ian: I can be found as ItemCrafting, be that ItemCrafting. com or ItemCraftingLive on Twitch. Matthew: And you can find me at ByMatthewPorter. com, you'll find links to whatever I'm doing online. And that includes my YouTube page, where there or at DraftHouseDiary. com, you'll find the Draft House Diary. Which is where I document every single one of my visits to an Alamo Draft House Cinema, anywhere in the country. So Ian: So Matthew: Final questions for Mad Max beyond Thunderdome, first, screen or no screen? Ian: I'm gonna say screen. This is a good movie, but it's also a movie that I know can be a little much at times. Yes. So, this is a screen, but it is a, are you ready for it, kind of screen. Matthew: Yeah, I say screen, but it's not as strong a recommendation as it is for me on those first two movies. The first two movies, there's something raw, there's something immediate, there's something so different about them. And Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome, it's an 80s Hollywood movie in ways that the other ones weren't. It's not a bad 80s Hollywood movie. If you like 80s Hollywood adventure movies, yeah, it's worth a screen. Yeah. And that brings the next question. Revive, reboot, or rest in peace? Ian: Well, let's acknowledge The Mad Max franchise from here. It did continue, Matthew: but we will be talking about that on a Patreon bonus. Ian: Exactly. So it has continued. But I guess the question is like the specifics of Thunderdome. What would we want to see? I don't know. I could see something being made of like The Barter Town story and like the Barter Town Underworld when they're early and they're forming. Matthew: Oh, so a prequel about Barter Town? Ian: Prequel about Barter Town. I could see a story of later Barter Town when it's, back and running and it's big and grand. I could maybe see things about like the Sydney colony or the Oasis. But I kind of don't think we need it. I think Thunderdome has properly leeched into popular culture all over and it can kind of be allowed to rest in peace. I don't have much I can go. I don't even have one of my really weird wild spin offs that I try to think up for things. No, and I also do not think you could remake this. Like, no amount of, no amount of attempt could imply a world where water is so scarce, but hairspray is apparently so plentiful. As, as this movie does, being made in the 80s about what it is. Matthew: Yeah, I would say rest in peace as well. I, I don't see, in some ways this is one of the terminal points for the Mad Max franchise. Which is, it goes from this weird little indie movie into, you know. A big Hollywood production. Speaker 6: Yes. Matthew: There's no, there's nowhere it has to go from there and no, no reason to do it. So I would say rest in peace. Ian: Yeah. It's a rest in peace. Matthew: But as you acknowledged, , it did not rest in peace. Ian: No. Matthew: So we'll be talking about what comes next over on Patreon. Ian: Yes. Matthew: But for now, thank you very much for listening to this episode of the intermillennium media project podcast We really appreciate it and we will be back in a couple of weeks with more tales Speaker 6: What's it? Who runs podcast town? Who runs podcast town? Matthew: We'll be back. We've done our road trip. Something. We'll have to wait and see what that is. Speaker 4: Absolutely. Yes. Matthew: But until then thanks very much for being here with us. Ian: In the meantime, go find something new to watch.