00:05.73 Leonard Hello I am your host Leonard and today I am joined by my co-host Cameron hello cameron how are you doing. 00:12.85 Cameron I I. 00:20.16 Cameron I'm doing all right I've been taking the week off my feet and by doctor's orders milking my very minor surgical injury as much as I can so I've been enjoying my week. Um, how about you. 00:35.67 Leonard Um, well I I didn't suffer an injury I Ah so surgical or otherwise I had ah my company's um, holiday party. 00:48.17 Cameron I s. 00:51.58 Leonard On Tuesday this week ah which was a lot of fun I literally did not run into anybody that I actually work with ah and during the holiday party. Ah, but ah, it was a good time and and it was nice to get out of the house. Um. 00:55.29 Cameron You're Good. I. 01:06.61 Cameron Yeah, yeah. 01:10.70 Leonard However, we unfortunately need to switch gears to things that aren't nice and that would be today's ah that's too main. That's I'm being I'm being I'm being unfair already all right today we are talking about. 01:20.67 Cameron Um, it's a little me. 01:28.41 Cameron And. 01:28.80 Leonard Willow ah from 1988 ah directed by Ron Howard Executively produced by George Lucas and written by Bob Dulman it is a ah high fantasy adventure film. Um. 01:48.38 Leonard Mostly in name and genre classification. Ah um, ah that stars are Warwick Davis ah Val Kilmer and ah Gene Marsh who ah eagle ear ah listeners may recognize from a previous film that we covered. 01:58.22 Cameron Yep. 02:07.91 Leonard Ah, return to oz. 02:07.99 Cameron Yes. 02:14.74 Leonard Um, Cameron do you have any history with this film. 02:15.12 Cameron Yes, so I do not. It was slightly before my time and by the time I sort of hit it big into fantasy stuff. There was a. Some might call it a superior hobbit-based film had been created by Peter Jackson um by the time I really started getting to that so it just never popped up on my radar. Um, it's also the kind of thing that my parents weren't really into either so they obviously didn't bring it in like. 02:37.56 Leonard Um. 02:49.67 Cameron I watched lots of stuff like monkey and things like that like a bit older than this and um, the best part of this show for me is I get to explore like the 10 years before I was born where the gap of my parents were too old to really get into this and I was not yet around to get into this sort of fits. 02:55.69 Leonard Um. 03:08.60 Cameron Um, I know I know I'm terribly young. Um. 03:08.89 Leonard Yes, well you you you use Dave and I as as your elderly surrogate. You're um, wait wasn't that a movie where people like jumped into like robot boys scifi film with like Bruce Willis 03:20.56 Cameron Oh that sounds right? Yeah, oh no, yeah yeah. 03:26.75 Leonard Like um, yeah, now that's what you're doing. You're you're jumping into Dave and I and and and hearing about stuff that existed a decade before you did. 03:34.37 Cameron In my day Warwick Davis played a halfling but they were copyrighted mm he was star star actor there honestly. 03:42.74 Leonard You right? they were copyrighted. He was also an ew walk. Ah yes I mean you know what he gets a pass because he's also the leprechaun. 03:52.86 Cameron He's he's had a very illustrious career. Yeah, it does good job. There. 04:01.83 Leonard Yep, um, and he does an admirable job here in Willow. Um, so ah before we get into these synopses. Ah will just give us an overall. Ah. Breakdown on your thoughts of this film having what experienced it for the first time. 04:23.39 Cameron All right? Um, overall I kind of really liked it. It's got that charm of like the the 80 s to 90 S Cinema Fantasy Cinema especially like I think a big part of it is in modern films. There's not always a lot of. Little people as in you know them human actors of far below average height whereas about half the cast of this film is little people and it's it's for me, it's a flashback to childhood because it's it's a big cast of people i. Recognize and don't fully recognize but they feel really familiar and it had that sense of familiarity like Warwick Davis obviously he's been in Harry Potter he's been in star wars and leprecha corner as he said all kinds of things but there's a one that really stood after me was a brother elf from troll. Was here is um, vanka one of the one of the nell win nellwin warriors um, and that made it feel real familiar and nice and apart from that it's sort of a generic adventure movie. It could maybe lose 30 minutes of just walking around in there somewhere and. 05:19.22 Leonard Yes. 05:36.14 Leonard E. 05:38.34 Cameron And not and not suffer too atrociously? Um, but ah, apart from that I enjoyed it and yeah I think I think maybe a little too long I did sort of start passing out at the right before the credits is like I see how things are going to wrap up and my brain just. 05:54.80 Leonard Um, ah. 05:57.58 Cameron You started shutting down a little um, but no it was. It's really fun and it feels kind of authentic in that it's It's not actually low budget but it feels more low budget than it is and that has a sort of charm for me if that makes sense. 06:09.56 Leonard Um, no. 06:14.52 Leonard Yes, it feels adjacent to a film that would have been on miss resized theater 3000 um what is it. It's like there's one of them something like. 06:23.85 Cameron Um, yeah, that's a good way to put it. Um. 06:30.39 Leonard Crusade of the delta nights I think which is is a like high fantasy film that that was on MsTThree k that feels very adjacent to this and also has like Brian Warner in it. 06:38.70 Cameron Yeah, yes, why not spot. 06:49.23 Leonard Like as the lead villain for some reason. 06:56.93 Leonard Um, yeah, my history goes ah with willow is I remember watching it more than once as a child and ah then forgetting about it and then finding out that Disney plus was going to turn it into a series and say. 07:03.27 Cameron M. 07:14.40 Leonard Saying to myself hey that's cool wait I don't remember anything about Willow but I know that I've watched it more than once. Um, and upon re-watching it for like the first time in what has to be probably 25 years 07:30.46 Cameron And. 07:31.84 Leonard I now understand why I don't remember anything about Willow because nothing really happens in it until the last 35 to 40 minutes of the film. 07:44.15 Cameron Um, yeah, it's a lot of characters going back and forth about whether or not they should do a thing and just sort of getting shots in nice scenic areas and occasionally very occasionally something happens. 07:59.10 Leonard Yes, yes. 08:01.38 Cameron Is this like a 15 minute stretch where they're just camped out next to a gibbet. 08:07.27 Leonard Oh man. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah I mean there's a lot of ah stretches of them camped out somewhere in this film. 08:14.72 Cameron Um. 08:15.96 Leonard Um, all right? Ah so cameron I'm gonna hand over synopsis duties to you and we're gonna We're gonna break down this bad boy. 08:25.47 Cameron Okay, excellent. So ah, first off, we don't know what the settings call. We don't know what the world's called. It's an unnamed fantasy world. It's New Zealand that's been stretched along the y axi is about another hundred and fifty percent um judging by the final shot of those really really conical mountains. Um, but our basic plot is almost a little biblical. It's the the evil queen bav mortar here's a prophecy that a child will be born who will overthrow her. And so like King Herod of old. Ah we start putting women and we start putting pregnant women in concentration camps until the babies are born and you know ah a a girl child will be born with ah with a birth mark on her arm denoting her to be like the one who defeats evil and. 09:02.87 Leonard Yes. 09:16.89 Cameron My brain immediately went. Okay, this is Goingnna be willow because I knew nothing about this film I was like wow yeah, so this is like the thing like the baby will be born and the baby is born. The midwife is convinced to smuggle it out and the baby ends up getting moses. 09:21.53 Leonard Ah. 09:32.66 Leonard Yes. 09:34.41 Cameron Puts on a little on a little floating raft of reeds and shoved down river and I'm like okay cool they'll they'll like do one of those traditional George Lucas white transition wipes to 15 years later and we'll have like our our teenage fantasy adventure woman. Ah Willow. The hero and instead it washes up on a bank and in a community of Nellwyn ah, who are the the aforementioned majority of the the cast being little people is it's this community um of nellyn who are sort of like the the halflings the hobbits. 10:09.98 Leonard Yes. 10:10.53 Cameron Of this world. Yeah, ah and they're just a little farming community 2 children find the baby just sort of parked on the bank of the river and then we meet willow who's Warwick Davis willow upfward a 10:26.76 Leonard Um. 10:30.18 Cameron Sort of farmer and aspiring magician ah does his best in life doesn't do very well in life. Ah, but he has 2 children has a lovely loving wife and now they have a a dint. Dikini Baby I believe is what they call humans dikinis. Yes, um, which it's always fun to like see through the eyes of the culture of very physically different fantasy races because it's like they're these great giants that live to the south and stuff and like well yeah, you don't think that you're little. 10:47.28 Leonard Yes. 11:06.15 Cameron Obviously they're just very big. Um all that kind of stuff which is fun. They take the baby in and then peaceful life is quickly disrupted by ah wolf Dogs Wolf Rat dog things. Ah. 11:19.13 Leonard Yes. 11:23.26 Cameron I Like the idea of the design of these every single shot is of them clearly being like dragged along a rope track at high speed. 11:30.10 Leonard Oh except for the few shots where it's clear that they put like a costume on a dog. 11:39.78 Cameron That is fair that is fair. Ah. 11:42.27 Leonard Um, but it did it did but they do but they they are in fact, referred to as dogs they are but they are fantasy dogs in that they are apparently ah wolf dog hybrids. 11:45.76 Cameron And. 11:54.20 Cameron Yes. 11:55.82 Leonard Um, because the Evil Queen is Evil So of course she couldn't have regular dogs. 11:59.50 Cameron No no now actually would this film have been improved if instead of these weird rat bo wolf- looking puppet things. They just had like 3 full-sized irish wolf hounds. Because I ah kind of feel like that might have been better. 12:16.89 Leonard Um, I mean if you pair the irish wolf hounds with the um personality free not Darth Vader of this film then probably that would have probably. 12:30.86 Cameron Mm. 12:34.36 Leonard Made it better if if they if they paired those creatures or those dogs up with that character because like individually they've got nothing but like together they might have had some visual interest at least. 12:34.43 Cameron Yeah, and. 12:48.32 Cameron Yeah, it's like like a sleek villainness style like here's my well-bred hunting dogs and yeah, a wolf Ho's an enormous sleek wolf killlling dog and it looks more wolfy than these. 13:00.88 Leonard Right. 13:03.59 Cameron These these look like darkyls 2 rats with longer legs. Um. 13:07.75 Leonard Um, it's um, what what's though, not the authority but the ah yeah, the the rat dog the giant sif rat dog from 2 Yeah, that's exactly what these look like. 13:12.46 Cameron The vanguard. Yeah yeah, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it pretty much. Ah, but yeah, one one of these. Ah, wolf dog terrible monsters bursts through the Nellyn Village in the middle of their festival and just wreaks general havoc including just tearing a cradle to shreds with nothing in it. Ah we we get the nellwin militia who are led by brother Elf troll. 13:36.95 Leonard Yes, yes. 13:45.73 Cameron Ah, and ah yeah, know we we get a cool little miniature fight sequence where they're all in like an animal pen wielding Spears and again you get that you get the feel for like the costumes are well-designed their clothes that you know fit properly and seem practical for their size and. They they use like these stubber spears that seem to really fit and um, yeah, they they're just poking at a mannequin really unfortunately. Um, but you know clearly something's wrong. They they call the village together. 14:12.24 Leonard And. 14:20.85 Cameron To figure out what should be done and at this point will is like okay we definitely can't keep the human baby. It's it's already caused trouble. So you know we'll Go'll. We'll sort it out with like the town council and they get there's like whoevers caused this shall be thrown in the pit. They're like yeah getting mobbed up. Willow goes to leave and the the town elder the the sorcerer of the town notices him there tells him to bring the child forwards and then we get the the only scene from this movie I've seen before which is I will consult the bones. The bones tell me nothing. Ah. 14:56.74 Leonard Um, yeah, ah yes. 14:59.72 Cameron Which I really like the sort of the take on this guy as the the positioned Sourcer in the community because it feels very Terry Pratchett the witches to me. 15:13.77 Leonard Yes. 15:16.65 Cameron Like it's It's almost more about social engineering than actually being able to do any kind of magic. Ah, because yeah, he's he's divining the bones to see what should be done with the dichini child but he's actually just tosses the bone out in the ground Hm Yes, yes yes. 15:20.56 Leonard Yes. 15:33.67 Cameron Okay, we need someone who's going to actually take care of the kid and we need someone who's a pain in my backside to leave the village for a couple weeks so I can just relax and send a few other people with them so like Willow if you love the child. Let me know is's like cool willow the bones say you're the one who has to go excellent, good um, your. 15:50.50 Leonard Yes, um it Oh yes, burgel but Burgle cook the ah the guy who apparently owns. 15:52.98 Cameron Your bossy neighbor also has to go screw that guy. Yeah. 16:03.70 Leonard The land that willow lives on question Mark because there's. 16:06.39 Cameron Something like that or willows in debt and he's going to get the land as payment or something like that and. 16:15.30 Leonard Yeah I like it like he's the you know he's He's the man with the money. Ah and and wants willows land for undisclosed reasons. He's ah he's miserable and unlikable and you know a very. 16:29.33 Cameron M. 16:32.79 Leonard 1 dimensional character. Um I do think that it's interesting. The the social engineering aspect of the village elder is actually kind of an interesting point because it is shown that he does in fact, have magic. 16:40.29 Cameron Oh. 16:47.55 Cameron Oh yeah, he. 16:51.55 Leonard He does. In fact, he is a an actual practitioner of magic. So you know the the fact that there he's also like playing the other side of the coin by doing this weird social engineering thing is also very bizarre to me but he also um. 17:03.24 Cameron Button. 17:09.21 Leonard During the Festival willow applies for his ah sorcer apprenticeship. Um, and and fails ah because he didn't trust himself. Ah, ah, which is you know once again. 17:13.66 Cameron Yes, yes. 17:20.34 Cameron Yes, um. 17:24.72 Leonard Hey a lot of this movie feels like something that fell out of the um, ah original Star Wars trilogy and then got passed through ah a computer ai filter to change all of the Sci fi elements to a fantasy elements. 17:33.30 Cameron Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, just just watching the cattle prods turn into spears as the screen wipes over. 17:42.68 Leonard Um, right? Oh he's a oh man, the the the dust farm I My actual farm now I'm not a teenager I'm I'm ah I'm a young adult man with a family. 17:57.49 Cameron A little no one? Yeah yeah, ah he's not he's not he's not he's not kennobi he's not old uncle Ben he's just high old one. 18:09.78 Leonard Yes, right? Well we do We do we get? We get our our canobi later on in in the fill. 18:11.61 Cameron Totally a Sourcera. Not a jedi no force here. So yes, that is true that is true. Oh man I'll have some words about that when we get there. Um, but yeah this this group of I believe. 18:22.99 Leonard The. 18:31.20 Cameron 5 nell ones it's it's burgle cut Willow voka the like the head warrior migosh and 1 other guy who I don't think gets a name they they they head off with the baby. They do some tracking. Ah. 18:39.27 Leonard Get yes correct. 18:48.30 Cameron Bole Cut clearly doesn't care for the child's health or safety because it's like let's just keep walking who cares if the kid's feeling sick. It'll be fine and then the baby forms on him as babies I want to do so well down him that that's the running joke for this guy is something nasty's always landing on his face. He gets a. 18:56.65 Leonard Yes. 19:03.51 Leonard Yes. 19:06.30 Cameron He gets a poll run of that but he also seems like kind of an ass. So yeah, um e. 19:14.37 Leonard I I do need to give this movie some credit which is hey ah, really good work on like getting those baby actor actress reactions because this movie. 19:23.71 Cameron Um, ah some of those are great. Yeah, so. 19:25.41 Leonard Some of them are really legitimately, really good and like actually do ah a fairly good job of imparting that. Yes, even though this is a baby. She is sapient and aware of what's actually going on around her. 19:42.51 Cameron Um, yeah, yes, like yeah, she's she's clearly understanding and interacting with what's going on to the best of her physical abilities which is mostly mostly giving someone the side eyee. Ah yeah. 19:42.53 Leonard Unlike an actual baby. 19:49.00 Leonard Exactly yes. 19:57.80 Cameron Yeah, um, they they definitely use that to the to the best there feels like there's probably a good 5 minutes of this film is just a square shot with the baby's face exactly center of the screen so that you can see exactly the face. This baby is pulling off and hey they they got a cute kid for it as well. At least it's not. 20:09.80 Leonard Um. 20:17.48 Leonard Um, yes, no. 20:18.32 Cameron If not 1 of the classically ugly babies. Ah no noted baby dislike of me going well at least the kids all right to look. But yeah, they they continue on their track. We get some hey there's some great like woodland shots I do love the environment in this I believe. It was new zealand they filmed in right? Yes, yeah, that there you go New Zealand classic fantasy woodland area to film in there. You go they they get to a crossroads and find a bunch of gibbets because the the elders instructions were you know. 20:37.18 Leonard Yes. 20:56.10 Cameron Take the baby to the dikingi crossroads a few days south of here. Whatever give it to the first human you see not our problem after that. Um you know here can't can't be having that kid around here. She'll grow you up so big. She'll never fit in the house. Um. And there in the gibbet we find ah Val Kilmer just hanging out imprisoned ah alternating between begging for water and then threatening the lives of and racially insulting these melwyn who have come by. Ah. 21:23.34 Leonard Yep. 21:32.37 Leonard Yeah man. Ah, there's a there's a lot of fantasy racism in this movie. Ah, but only towards 1 group ah ah in the film. 21:33.69 Cameron Yeah. 21:39.33 Cameron Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, everyone hates now ones. 21:49.68 Leonard And it's yes and are very comfortable using the Slur word for the um throughout the entire film. 22:02.62 Cameron Yeah, yeah, ah I'll give them this. It's gonna it's gonna sound like a weird compliment. It's a really good slur. It feels real which makes it significantly more uncomfortable than if it is just being like walking around calling them short stuff or whatever. 22:11.60 Leonard Um, ah yes. 22:17.71 Leonard You write. 22:20.00 Cameron Ah, it feels like it has like connotations and everything it's one of those simple to say terms that they just roll off the tongue like every second word at a foul kilma mouth for the freeze first scene. 22:34.51 Leonard Yeah, it's it's bizarre. Um, yeah, ah, yeah, once again, this is the introduction of Val Killmer mad Martin again or as I like to refer to him. Ah Matt Solo um ah ah more rogue less dashing. Ah not that not very dashing like it's like it's not it's not ah 22:55.44 Cameron Yes, oh lot of rogue. Not so much to the dashing. 23:07.58 Leonard Ah, han shot first with Mad Mar again it's ah Han burned the tavern to the ground after barring the doors. 23:10.47 Cameron So. 23:16.46 Cameron Yeah, oh yeah, you he he's he's a killer through and through he's got that he's got that raw airrelight mad martigan is all 1 word in all of the subtitling and all the articles around this but it feels like it should be the descriptor mariggan. 23:29.85 Leonard Yes. Um, yes, Yes, yeah. 23:36.21 Cameron Should be mad space Mariggan but everyone goes mad marrigan because he does seem genuinely like that little bit off the edge for the majority of the film until he starts calming down nearer to the end. Um, just yeah, just a dangerous. Awful person to be around for the first half of the film and ah yeah. 23:59.64 Leonard So dangerous and so awful that he runs into people who are free and ah ah into a commander an army commander that he knows. 24:04.30 Cameron M. 24:13.13 Leonard Who's like yeah no I'm also not going to let you out of here. You can starve to death for all I care. 24:19.11 Cameron Yeah, know you're good with a sword but you don't care about anything you'd probably just stab us all the second we let you out? Yeah yeah, um, and yeah, so here they camp out for a little bit until burgle cut convinces everyone else but migosh to just leave. 24:23.26 Leonard Right. 24:34.20 Leonard Need yep. 24:36.66 Cameron Go back like we done our job. We got the babies to the crossroads. There's a human in a cage here. We can just leave the baby on the ground. That's the same right? Ah, same as giving it to the first person we find migosh stays on because he's actually a good friend and ah Willow. 24:54.80 Cameron Eventually is convinced that no one is going to take the child except for Mad Margan if he's released like there are messengers on horses who are just completely ignoring the nel one as they ride by an entire army rides through and the commander is like explicitly. Yeah. 25:08.19 Leonard Yep. 25:11.89 Cameron We're not taking a baby to a battlefield stuff's going on in the background like um the the evil Queen bavmor as commander has taken so-and-s so castle as an attack against so-and-so nation. So yeah, that there's sort of political stuff. 25:14.51 Leonard Um, yep. 25:27.77 Cameron Kind of going on in the background but we never get more than that. Yeah. 25:30.80 Leonard Big I'm ah there is the there is the slightest wafting of of put politics. In this film like like a pie that somebody set on a windowsill a quarter of a mile away you you get hints of it. But there's nothing really nothing there and we'll get. We'll get to it because man. 25:48.46 Cameron No, no, no. 25:53.93 Leonard I have some ah real problems with how allergic to world building. This movie seems to be. 26:01.48 Cameron God that is a good way to put it give you the bare minimum required to have some sort of investment in the story and everything else is set dressing. Um, ah yeah, all right? So yeah, ah they decide. Okay. 26:06.72 Leonard Right. 26:19.40 Cameron Mad Marigan says he'll take it will ignore the fact he's and here but he seems very trustworthy ever since that time he tried to strangle Willow you know is fine. So no one else is coming. 26:25.98 Leonard In. 26:30.80 Cameron Let the guy out of his cage. He's very very grateful. Give him the baby. The first thing he does is spin around about ninety miles an hour with the baby and throw it up into the air like woohoo that he's just enthusiastic. He won't do that again. He's not shaking the baby. Ah. 26:42.28 Leonard Um, yeah. 26:47.40 Cameron All right? cool. Let's go and off megosh and willow go and about 5 minutes later there is an eagle flying past with the baby clutched in its talons and 2 brownies on its back standing. We stole a baby. Yeah. 27:02.62 Leonard Ah, which is literally the only thing that I actually remember about this movie prior to the last thirty five minutes like that scene happened and I was like oh I that I do remember. 27:11.55 Cameron Yeah, yeah. And. 27:18.25 Leonard I do remember we star the biba we star that but ba and I'm like oh no I do remember that. In fact, that's that line read is the only thing for the first hour and a half of this movie that I actually explicitly remember. 27:27.41 Cameron Yeah, um. 27:37.34 Leonard Hurt. 27:38.77 Cameron It's hard not to remember? um so brownies are even even littler people but normally proportioned by way of Cine Cinema Cine Ah Cinema Magic You know they've they've clearly just green screened these people out and cut them smaller into the frame and everything. 27:42.23 Leonard D. 27:55.72 Leonard Um, yes, the yes. 27:55.87 Cameron And they are for some reason horrifically French I'm not sure why but they are French I Do love the brownie style. Let's talk brownie costume for a moment your your hood is just a skinned mouse head. Excellent. 28:12.10 Leonard Yep. 28:12.93 Cameron They look so good like that I really do love their outfits. Ah yeah. 28:16.53 Leonard It's almost like it's almost like Proto Mono Noke outfits for like incredibly small humanoids. 28:23.62 Cameron Mm Yeah yeah, they've got like all the tribal markings they're riding beasts in the battle. They've got like for for them. A Rat would be like the equivalent of like fighting a bear. So. 28:36.50 Leonard Right. 28:38.85 Cameron It's probably a very brave thing to wear like a mouse or a rat skin because those are terrifying beasts to them. Um, but yeah, they're they're flying off with the baby. So Willow. Willow's got to go do his Judy Chase after the brownies. Um, they are then. 28:42.26 Leonard E. 28:56.50 Leonard We do get a really really fun. Um, ah, um, like nod and ah fascinating inversion of the gullib burns travels. 29:07.84 Cameron Ah, Matt this whole bit I actually do really love because first of all these this is sort of foreshadowed because way back in the nellwin village. There's someone offhandly mentions you don't want to be going out the world. There's dikinni and there's brownies and all kinds of nasty things out there and like. 29:10.40 Leonard In. 29:25.27 Cameron How But how about could brownies be traditionally folkalorically a brownie is like a little house elf thing that shows up and cleans the place and maybe takes a little food as payment. Um, and then in this they are more like the the traditional mythological elf. 29:25.87 Leonard M. 29:42.32 Cameron Where it's a tiny little evil thing that lives in the forest and is fiercely territorial and will just shoot you with a bow. Ah it's It's a great little chas scene where like we got to chase them find the baby and immediately it gets twisted to there are like. 29:46.12 Leonard Um, ah ah. 29:58.14 Cameron Dozens of these guys shooting tiny little flint arrows at us from the treeline. Let's just run We can outrun them. We've got bigger legs than them We we little no ones um and they immediately run into a bit trap because the brownies are organized and then yes we get gulliver's travels. 30:02.58 Leonard Yep. 30:13.53 Leonard Um, yep, right. 30:17.78 Cameron By way of both. Both are willow and migosh staked out on the ground and a bunch of brownies just sort of walking around them and inspecting and going. Oh it's my Troy ah. 30:28.90 Leonard Um. 30:32.88 Cameron Oh man. Um, so yeah, they they they take them prisoners and then almost immediately release them because the brownies have clearly maliciously interpreted their instructions which were to get willow and migosh so that um. Who's this ah sherlandrea the fairy queen could um, could could tell them what their actual mission is and and so we get a little Tinker Bell style light which magically morphs into a full-grow galadrielesque woman. Ah. 30:59.38 Leonard Ah, and. 31:09.18 Cameron And ah yeah, the the baby is Elora Danon The fortold princess of tear is lean. We never find out what tear is lean is apart from maybe a castle somewhere. Ah. 31:17.97 Leonard Yeah, yes, oh man, it's a it's a I guess it was a kingdom once maybe question mark. 31:27.49 Cameron It's just a castle now I guess very question mark. Yes. 31:33.26 Leonard Ah, also by virtue of her being the princess of of Terranness Lee doesn't that mean that her that the woman that gave birth to her is oh I don't know her mother and and therefore a queen. 31:45.57 Cameron Potentially or this is like 1 of those things where it's like she'll be princess of tyris lean by adoption which I think is technically how that works out in the end like. We'll get to that at the end but it feels more like a we're claiming the mantle of the kingdom of tyris lean and also this is our kid now I guess it's. 32:06.90 Leonard Yeah, once again I'm just that I I I've never pined for exposition more than in watching this movie just tell me anything. 32:19.43 Cameron Give me a crumb God give me just. 32:24.33 Leonard Tell me any tell me how far away we are from a location tell me what this location is tell me how much time has passed tell me anything anything please. 32:28.67 Cameron Ah. 32:37.37 Cameron What I wouldn't what I wouldn't give for each of those screen wipes to be like 5 frames of a world map and a little arrow just yeah, um. 32:41.86 Leonard The yes yes Spielberg had been making Indiana Jones movies at this point you know Lucas you know how to do yeah, you know how to do a map just travel map. Just. 32:53.71 Cameron The technique is known yeah and put put the fade shot of Warwick Davis ' face over the fantasy New Zealand Map just get a regular New Zealand Map 33:04.25 Leonard Um, yeah, even yeah. 33:09.68 Leonard It's It's so frustrating because there's like there's a war going on and there's like nary a hint of it other than like yes we're going off to War Goodbye Mad Bar again die in that cage. 33:15.88 Cameron Mm. 33:26.16 Cameron Yep yep. 33:28.24 Leonard And then the Bev Bav de more is just like I want that baby and it's just like wait. No please, you're an evil sorcess. What do you want like? is it just like I want to rule everything that that's just dull. Ah, ah. 33:40.78 Cameron Yeah I guess complete political power. No chance of unrest ever if I kill this 1 baby. 33:46.30 Leonard It's so fra. And and also if you're like you are you It is later shown that she is an incredibly powerful sorceress. How have you not just conquered everything already. 33:59.33 Cameron Oh ridiculously. So. 34:07.60 Leonard You have already removed all of your rivals. Ah. 34:13.51 Cameron Yeah, yeah, it's ah it's a It's a little light on like the cladding that could really shore it up I think could use a little more. 34:22.76 Leonard Um, yeah. 34:26.14 Cameron But see like this thing like the movie could stand to lose 30 minutes but instead of losing the 30 minutes replace the 30 minutes with like just a little extra information. So keep it 2 hours just tell us more instead of showing us a bunch of people walking down a road. 34:33.67 Leonard Absolutely. 34:42.31 Leonard Yes. 34:44.46 Cameron For half the film. Ah if only um, but ah yeah, ah, Sherlandrea yeah, explains that Ellora is first off. Yeah as you said completely sapient and aware of what's going on. She's magical and like telepathic to a degree. 35:02.13 Leonard Um. 35:02.96 Cameron Um, and she's chosen Willow because you know she's also still a baby and sort of locked onto the first person who really gave her continued attention I guess it's it's got to be willow. You've been chosen as her protectors like okay I guess I'm doing this all right cool take this wand go go to a. 35:10.41 Leonard The right. 35:22.31 Cameron Go to an island on a lake where Finn Reil the enchantress lives give her the wand and she'll help you go the rest of the way. Okay, quest cool. We got a vague destination. We've got fra jean and rule the 2 brownies as our guides who. 35:37.44 Leonard Yes. 35:41.58 Cameron Seem to navigate by democracy as far as I can tell is this way? No, it's this way actually the 2 of them together. It's that way. Ah, and off we go out into the wildness. Gotta gotta make our way. 35:45.14 Leonard Um. 35:59.49 Cameron Um I believe it is this point that megosh goes home with like hey Willow's gone on a quest because giving the baby to humans straight up didn't work out so he's going to go figure all that out. He's he'll probably be fine. Ah. 36:01.46 Leonard Yes. 36:12.11 Leonard Yeah, actually all things considered like they didn't have any problems getting to the human territory. So in all likelihood. Yeah, it's probably an easy trip back. 36:19.85 Cameron No. Yeah I mean like that. That's the big thing is humans very racist against now they also it's just like all talk they they don't consider them worth even like negative attention Beyond using slurs at them because. 36:34.32 Leonard Yes. 36:40.85 Leonard Yes. 36:43.80 Cameron I guess from their perspective you know it's like it's like a two and a half to four foot tall person. They're not going to physically threaten you so just be rude to them and be on your way I guess is weird, weirdly, realistic but also weirdly kids glove fantasy racism strange one. 36:56.69 Leonard Yes, is it is it at this point that we're introduced to sourceha. 37:02.38 Cameron Ah, but yeah. 37:07.81 Cameron Ah, more or less. Yes, um the the evil Queen Bathmora is very confused by the fact that she's you know, moving her entire forces and is not able to find a single baby you know something that can't even move on its own and so calls in first off. 37:19.55 Leonard Yep. 37:25.80 Cameron General kale who has a Halloween store skull mask for his helmet visor ah is yeah yeah I think that's about right and sacia who is her daughter and dressed in like. 37:29.69 Leonard Yes, it looks like an ape. It looks like an Ape skull. 37:43.54 Leonard Yeah, that was weird. 37:43.89 Cameron Sort of Mongolian armor almost it doesn't really fit aesthetically with the rest of them all like Medieval European stuff going on but it's it's lighter and she's got like a bow and stuff that she never uses. Um. 38:00.33 Leonard Nope Um, and the only reason that I actually bring up. Um ah her introduction and. 38:01.90 Cameron Not once. But. 38:08.61 Cameron I. 38:10.72 Leonard And I'm jumping ahead a little later but really the scenes the cutaways to bab demor court are so nothing that I might as well just combine them here which is ah when one of ah Bab Demora advisers like I've I've seen I've foretold that your daughter will betray you and. 38:17.60 Cameron Oh yeah, yeah, please. 38:30.78 Leonard Morere is like I Trust how I more than you I Trust you and I'm like lady you are hunting for a baby because a prophecy so showed you that she you she would nuke you from orbit. How are you like I don't believe in this prophecy though Ho What? how. 38:39.55 Cameron Yeah, yeah. 38:48.70 Cameron Yeah, she apparently got a big blind spot when it comes to family. 38:50.17 Leonard How it it that really drove that drove me insane or I'm like literally everything that you are doing the the entire focus of your personality is finding this prophesized baby and one of your trusted. 39:05.74 Cameron Yeah, yeah. 39:09.54 Leonard And loyal advisers like hey your daughter's gone betrayal you and you're just like I shut up your raw. Yeah. 39:17.60 Cameron And she would never um I mean like the baby is like magically threatening to her whereas I Guess as proved later in the movie Even if her daughter turns against her that's not really an issue for her but she didn't have to be so. 39:27.79 Leonard Yeah. 39:33.65 Cameron Blase about it's like I don't trust you Mr Adviser to be fair, he gets a real I told you so shot at the end of the film where like the daughter walks out in front of an army and we just cut to that guy looking at the queen like what did I say. 39:36.63 Leonard Um, yeah. 39:48.60 Leonard Um, yeah, right. 39:55.85 Cameron Foreshadowing. Yes, ah so yeah, willow fra on and rule head out into wildness and trek for an unspecified distance over an unspecified amount of time in an unspecified direction. Ah. 40:10.25 Cameron Until they come across that most adventurous of locations the human tavern because they're out of milk and obviously Elor is not onto solid foods yet. So got to got to get some milk and in willow goes immediately again sort of just. 40:13.67 Leonard Yes. 40:24.96 Leonard Yep. 40:30.19 Cameron Lambastard by Racism and not not given any milk so he goes and hides under the stairs which I mean fair, get out of sight get out of mind these people clearly I'm going to help you I feel that um and then tumbles backward through a. 40:32.50 Leonard Yep. 40:35.62 Leonard Yeah. 40:47.90 Cameron Shortdily constructed wall panel into a bedroom where we see Mad Marigan again rapidly rapidly getting ready for a drag show. Um, yeah, he's he's with his lover I guess and her husband has. 40:55.42 Leonard Yes. 41:05.79 Cameron Heard that I heard that there might be a man here. So it's time for Mad Martigan to quickly get the act up in honestly, probably the most uncomfortable scene of the entire film because man before. 41:18.12 Leonard Yes up. Although although it is it it. You know what? it is very true to high fantasy though. Ah well also once again, very like there are points where it like this movie hits like. 41:24.82 Cameron That is fair. 41:34.70 Leonard High fantasy concepts really hard with the hammer and nails it completely but like it's the weirdest and most uncomfortable aspects of high fantasy that it it. 41:35.73 Cameron E yeah. It is is like all the racism and the the blatant misogyny kind of like the the actual rating on this film at least here in Australia is Pg and it's like consistent low-level violence I'm like yeah you see a. 41:49.85 Leonard Um, yes. 42:01.50 Cameron A tiny bit of blood in like a couple of scenes and there's like some fighting and stuff put it put in something for man walks in on his wife and his wife's quote-unquote cousin immediately pins cousin up against the wall and says what a breed and I go what the hell my watch this is for children. 42:13.56 Leonard Yeah. 42:19.60 Cameron This is like a kids fantasy movie right? It's it's sort of hitting fly fantasy but it feels more like they. They're definitely trying to hit that. Okay for kids and then the scene comes in and right hooks me out of nowhere. Um with lug was his names on love that? yeah. 42:32.43 Leonard Yep. Yes. 42:39.50 Cameron Um, yeah, lug with two L's because it's a fantasy setting. 42:43.75 Leonard Yes, yeah, these are ah the men a lot of these names I'm just like Mom I'm just like I'm just like babies first D and D Home Brew naming convention. 42:51.62 Cameron Um, the shore. Yeah yeah, like a lauraa fine. That's basically a real name willow. There are people named willow. Okay. 43:05.54 Leonard Yep, But so is kakara. 43:06.58 Cameron Kale is just a vegetable. 43:15.60 Cameron Ah, but yeah, ah saha and the foot soldiers of bavmora At this point break into the tavern because they know they're looking for a Nell win with a baby. Ah. 43:24.28 Leonard Right? Um, because the need the empire needed to but bust into Mose eyesly he and threaten our hero. 43:29.71 Cameron Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, um, at which point to get out of a bind ah Mad Marigan reveals he's a man and then uses the subsequent of course. 43:38.92 Leonard Yes. 43:43.75 Cameron Blind Rage attack by lug to dodge out of the way and get all of the the so foot soldiers just beaten up by this one Very large peasant man. Ah, again, showing off. He's that sort of on edge sort of dangerous but overall competent. Mostly. 43:58.35 Leonard E. 44:01.40 Cameron Law knows how he ended up in that cage. Um, we do get a fun sequence which is a wagon chase I actually really enjoyed this. This felt fun. It was good like um, it's Mardigan the 2 brownies willow and the baby all on the wagon trying to outride a bunch of horseback soldiers. 44:05.36 Leonard Yes. 44:19.14 Leonard As as wagon wills keep breaking off of the wagon like in in like probably the most accurate ah version of a wagon chase that I've ever seen considering that yeah wooden wagons. 44:19.35 Cameron As the web all that it just starts disintegrating halfway through the chase. 44:36.26 Leonard Not built for high speed chases like that will probably turn to dust if you try to do it. 44:39.40 Cameron Yeah, um, oh absolutely? Ah yeah, and just yeah, some really fun choreography. Ah Willow the entire ride going you got to slow down. This is not good for the baby. You got to slow down. There's not good for baby. 44:52.71 Leonard Yes. 44:56.54 Cameron Ah, and ah, you know they they escape with their lives and Mars are like okay so why are you even here like oh on it' some milk we're going to this island a lake is like god dad I'm going in the direction of the island on the lake. So I guess we're going together heroes of happenstance. 45:11.80 Leonard Yes, yep'll I'll I'll lead you there says the guy that took the baby did not try to um reclaim the baby at any point after he lost it. 45:14.88 Cameron Ah. 45:18.53 Cameron So. Yes, m. 45:27.41 Leonard And then ah proceeded to go to a tavern to ah have an affair with a woman once again, once again, they are really trying to recreate like that Han Solo dashing rogue aspect with Matt Morgan but he is like a. 45:31.24 Cameron Yes. 45:39.30 Cameron E. 45:45.78 Leonard A monstrous jerk like throughout the entire film and honestly if you wanted to soften it What you do is you have him get captured with willow. You have him also get captured by the brownies as he's trying to recover the baby. 45:46.40 Cameron Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely like we we. 46:02.60 Cameron Um, yeah, yeah, that would be a much easier way to make Marrigan feel a little more integrated instead of yeah this this standoffish loaner who happens to be here. 46:05.29 Leonard And then everybody knows why willows on this quest. 46:16.91 Leonard Yes. 46:19.32 Cameron As well because he he after this point he does very quickly become invested in the whole thing like he he's ride or die from like this next scene. Onwards. 46:25.37 Leonard Ah. 46:27.58 Leonard Yes, although he doesn't ever apologize for the fantasy racism. 46:34.10 Cameron No, he's never going to apologize for the fantasy races. Ah, but yeah, they they make their way to the Island on the Lake more or less without incident. Ah, there's a boat big enough for a single person. So. 46:42.78 Leonard Yep. 46:47.20 Cameron Mad Mariggan the 2 brownies and El Laurara are left behind while willow goes off to the island to get the sorcceres and there he meets something that struck me as really unusual until I remember this was filmed in New Zealand um because i. 46:58.73 Leonard I. 47:05.51 Cameron I feel like because I talk about these older films with you and Dave mostly I feel like part part of the time I'm coming here with like an american expectation of films from the like the 80 s and I did not expect to see an australian slash New Zealand Brushtail Possum in a film ever which. 47:19.44 Leonard Yes. 47:24.83 Cameron Actually kind of I was thinking about this one I was watching it was this like a weird fantasy creature. The first time you saw it if you remember like looking at that going. Wow that's a weird looking animal or no okay, oh good. 47:35.79 Leonard No no I I knew what it was I I was I was yes I was ah I was ah an avid reader and and and and knowledge observer as a child So I knew I was like oh that's a. 47:47.85 Cameron Um. 47:53.86 Leonard I think I probably thought it was a lemur um because of the eyes. Um, but I knew that it wasn't like some made up fantasy creature. 47:57.56 Cameron Yeah, yeah for um, yeah, yeah, it's just kind of wild because I think the only other time I've seen a brushtail possum in a film is in a very. Australia specific film about a dog that gets stuck on a hot air balloon and then lands on a little Australian Island or something it. It was like myam and Otis but with a golden retriever ah, and and there were like yeah brushel possums and other ausie animals have this big flood at the end. 48:18.34 Leonard Get out there. And the brush tail possum. 48:32.44 Cameron The dog movies always have a big flood at the end I don't know why? Um, at some point. 48:35.44 Leonard I also like the idea that the only reason that it's a brush tail possum is because they filmed this in New Zealand and they were like yeah who has and what animals. What? yeah this one this 1 looks weird this one looks like a muppet. Yeah. 48:42.70 Cameron Um, yeah, that they just they just grabbed the closest animal. Yeah, because they're they're actually an invasive species. They're they're everywhere in New Zealand um 48:58.14 Leonard Um. 48:58.88 Cameron So I assume honestly it could have just wandered onto the set and they went no this is good. We'll rotocope the mouth later ah to have to get the actor to dub over it because this is this is fin Revealal She's been polymorphed into a possum um by Bav maa. 49:02.47 Leonard Yes. 49:12.20 Leonard By bad morea. 49:17.57 Cameron Ah, also side point about possums I was so confused when I first started getting on the more American Centric internet as as ah as a teenager and everyone talking about possums like disease-infested rats and I'm like. 49:26.43 Leonard Ah. 49:30.50 Leonard Ah. 49:32.27 Cameron No, they're really cute. You feed them honey sandwiches if you're a bad person like my grandparents. Um, if you don't care about their health and then I discovered the North American Oposma that's cute in like a Oscar the grouch way. But I understand what everyone's talking about now. 49:33.81 Leonard And then you discovered the North American Opossum right. 49:46.87 Leonard And. 49:52.70 Cameron That was so weird. Um, but yeah bavmoro transmutes her into a possum and exiles her to the Island because Possums can't swim I assume was the thinking here. 50:00.61 Leonard Um, yes, yep. 50:03.10 Cameron Ah so yeah, willow's got that wand so all he has to do is change her backs. She'll teach him how even though he's just a fledgling sorcerer. He's got. He's got the potential for magic and that's what counts and for the rest does he is is. 50:08.77 Leonard The that does he that does he cameron I mean how does the magic system in this movie work. How does magic in this in this world where cameron. 50:21.62 Cameron As far as I can tell it's based entirely on self-confidence which is sort of analogous to the Charisma stat and dungeons and dragons. So I guess everyone's a sorcerer with like spontaneous bloodline caster in this universe. 50:32.00 Leonard Um. 50:38.99 Cameron Nothing else to it and we don't know how magic works apart from say the words put some blood on a thing and feed it to a boss. 50:43.44 Leonard Yes, say say the words and believe it and concentrate and yeah man I'd I'd really like to know how the magic system in this universe works that be really nice. Yep. 50:48.11 Cameron Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where did magic weed magic even come from is like the wand. The reservoir is magic just all around you who knows it's a mystery. Yeah. 51:05.95 Leonard Yep, because the wand just breaks off of a tree like she doesn't like present it to him. It's just a gnarled tree branch that snaps off and I'm just like. 51:14.80 Cameron Yeah, yeah, exactly. 51:20.25 Leonard Anything just give me anything a crumb a crumb of world building I'm begging you movie and I just something I'm dying I'm I can feel the moisture of like engagement leaving my body. 51:23.68 Cameron I. 51:37.24 Cameron Oh man. Yeah I just want to know more. That's that's the that is the sad part about it is I want more information because there is definitely that interest there I think there is something that could be interesting here. It's just complete. 51:53.76 Leonard Ah, ah. 51:54.78 Cameron Every time the camera pans over to a document about how the world works. It's viciously wrenched away by George Lucas I assume um no don't look at that we don't talk about how the force works. We don't talk about how magic works. Um, he learned his lessons. No, he didn't um. 52:00.23 Leonard Let you see. 52:10.16 Leonard Yep. 52:16.60 Cameron Ah, yeah, so yeah, he rescues Finn Roe from the island boats back to the shore and is promptly captured alongside everyone else by saha and the soldiers because she's actually Compton at her job once she knows what she's looking for which good for her. 52:26.57 Leonard Yep. He. 52:32.97 Cameron Well done. Ah so they're all locked in cages and fin reseal being oposssum just sort of breaks out very easily gets into gets into willow's cage and says okay just do the thing turn me into a human. They haven't taken the wand because as you said. 52:42.61 Leonard Yes. 52:51.92 Leonard Me. 52:52.63 Cameron It's just a stick like why would they bother taking it. There's no one's got a stick. Whatever. Um, and so he does he does magic. He does great and powerful magic He concentrates and all the while I'm thinking there's not room for a full grown human in this cage you should. 53:10.41 Leonard Ah. 53:10.42 Cameron She should be standing on the other side of the bars. Ah, but it's fine because he messes up the spell he doesn't Concentrate. He doesn't believe in himself enough. He doesn't become one with the words and instead of turning her back into human he transmutes the possum into a rook. Ah. In a somewhat disturbing manner where the possum melts into like a little fur puddle and a a crow bursts out of it. 53:32.12 Leonard Yep yep and I'm like man you know what? I really wish I knew how magic worked because man that makes magic seem horrific like just that. 53:38.83 Cameron Oh yeah, it was freaky. Yeah. 53:47.53 Leonard I'm just like that right there. That's the most interesting bit of magic that I've seen in a fantasy setting in a while which is let me like I'm going to I'm going to much like a caterpillar. Ah ah I'm going to ah turn Ah, all of your solid parts. 53:52.47 Cameron Button. 54:06.83 Leonard Into ah jelly and then you will emerge from your furry Chrysalis as a new being right right. 54:12.47 Cameron Ah, oh yeah, yeah, it feels gross in the really interesting way and again we don't know how that works or if it was just like I was leftover mass. 54:25.70 Leonard Like I hey just give me a flashback of like when babda morea turned thin Brazil into up. Ah ah, a possum because I wanted to be some like sick. Oh shit where it's like. 54:31.74 Cameron Ah, yeah. 54:40.14 Leonard Ah, like under the skin and there's just a skin suit and then a possum just crawls out of the mouth. All. 54:44.73 Cameron Ah, yeah, good good old Hamlock Grove Werewolf Transformation style that would be great I would love that. 54:48.51 Leonard Right? Exactly I'm like okay magic is horrible and yes people who practice it should be trained and competent in end. 55:03.80 Cameron Look what happens when you don't you just did something terrible there willow well done ah got to get so bad later in the film. Ah yeah, ah while imprisoned and working on breaking out. Ah. 55:05.60 Leonard Yeah, yeah, yeah, like he'll do later in the film. 55:20.21 Cameron Fraine doses. Ah Val Kilma with a with a love dust accidentally dust of heartbreak or something which was alluded to once earlier in the film where rule got coded in it and tried to woo a cat in the tav and um, which hey I love you cat. 55:27.21 Leonard Yes. 55:33.81 Leonard Yes. 55:40.60 Cameron You got a perfect round face good cat um a little little bit of chekhos Chekhov's ah dust of dust of heartbreak there I guess but that it's. 55:49.12 Leonard Is. 55:53.56 Cameron Again, hey magic's not specified rule fell in love with the first thing that met his eyes which was a cat mad mardigan gets dosed with this proceeds to walk around the camp for 5 minutes completely unaffected apart from feeling better about the world. 55:59.74 Leonard Yep. 56:09.23 Cameron And then see sorcer asleep and falls in love immediately is it is it Compatibility does that mean brownies can communicate with and have an actual relationship with a cat or is this just I don't know what's going on here. 56:12.45 Leonard Um, yes. 56:20.10 Leonard Oh I I think I think it's the mad the the magic system doesnt matter and we need things to happen. This is the seventh draft of this script and I'm not going to do another one. 56:31.97 Cameron Yeah, probably not getting paid enough to rewrite the scene again fair enough. Ah yeah in the process of getting all Laura back man Barigan goes into sarc' 10 see socer sleep. 56:38.80 Leonard Yeah. 56:48.12 Cameron Falls in love and immediately starts being horrendously creepy and misogynistic as befits this traditional high fantasy. Um and as befits this high fantasy sao First off wakes up threatening him with a knife which fair and then as he just starts. 56:52.97 Leonard Yes. 57:06.37 Cameron Wooing her with um, not particularly good off-the-cuff poetry. Ah she slowly sorts to Startis starts to sort of soften towards him which you've known this man for all of like a day and all he has done is. Kill your men break wagons and escape your escape your pursuit. Don't do this, You're better than this? Yep ah didn't punch her. He shoved her like over a table. 57:31.18 Leonard Didn't didn't didn't He also punch her when he was pretending to be a woman. Oh yes, that's right, That's right. 57:42.27 Cameron Full full force just both arms immediately pushed her back like three meters into furniture. 57:47.45 Leonard Yes I remembered that he did a cost her physically accost her in some way previously. 57:55.17 Cameron Yeah, yeah, yeah, um, but you know we we got to have a romantic subplot and willow's wife is at home. So it's not that. Ah. 58:10.56 Cameron Ah, ah, but with this ah sort of momentary distraction. They managed to get the baby and escape to a nearby village in which they find the remnants of ah Eric's army the army that was passing by the gibbet earlier in the film. The army got trounced pretty soundly by bavmore's army. 58:20.91 Leonard Yes. 58:28.70 Cameron They're hiding out here as ah, Sourceer's army comes in pursuit and the the only way it could be resolved is Mad Marigan takes saha hostage and she joins the party forcibly new, New New New Adventuring friend acquired. Ah. 58:43.80 Leonard Yes, at knife point yes in in in a fantasy setting. 58:48.23 Cameron At knife point is how all good friendships start um in a fantasy setting. Um, yeah, take they take sourcecer captive to get the get the hell out of there. They manage to do so and I do appreciate this because ma'am Martin and goes out first. With saha while Willow the brownies and the law make a run for a horse and gets all the soldiers to drop their weapons then makes a break for it and as the soldiers go to pick up their weapons. All of Eric's soldiers burst out of the house and ambush them which hey decent play well thought out. 59:18.37 Leonard Yes, yes. 59:25.90 Cameron Good job. Save yourself a lot of time there. Um, they flee eventually after a lot of like confused talking about it and like you said you loved me last night sacia gets tired of this and just. Kicks martigan in the chest stomach and then punches him in the throat and runs away which good for her. She was able to escape relatively easily. 59:47.11 Leonard Yep, which I I Really appreciate I Really appreciate like she's like yeah okay, I'm done I'm done with like. Checking to see if this was legitimate. But no, you're your dicks. Oh I'm out instantly. 01:00:01.00 Cameron So yeah, we could have had something but I'm out of here I was thinking about betraying my mother for you but you know actually no, which ah when they first captureed her my brain went. Ah. 01:00:12.88 Leonard Um, they write. 01:00:19.58 Cameron Someone's going to report this is your daughters with the people with the baby and the queen going she did betray death. They didn't do that. She just actually port Betrayys The Queen later. 01:00:27.58 Leonard No ah see what would have made this what would have what would have ah ah, ah, added to the I told you so scene later is if just do a cuta away with Bav Moreda looking in a cauldron that's projecting. 01:00:36.78 Cameron The. 01:00:43.83 Leonard Her escape from Med Marigan and her just like sneering at her adviser and walking away. 01:00:44.99 Cameron Ah, yeah. 01:00:51.93 Cameron Ah, yeah, at at that 15 seconds I would actually really love that. 01:00:53.49 Leonard Right? Like that's that's the cutaway that this movie actually needs. Right. 01:01:03.61 Cameron Told you she was lawyer. Yeah, um, yeah, So it's all good though. They've made it far enough ahead of Kale and the rest of the army that they can make it to Tira Lean Hooray. A decrepit old castle in the middle of nowhere fear. 01:01:21.51 Leonard Yes, and they're like ah it looks like Bav Morriss already attacked it and I'm like why why? what's going on what? no okay, so we're done with characters. No no new characters too old. 01:01:26.79 Cameron So. 01:01:33.70 Cameron Yeah, no new characters exactly exactly like they got a bunch of people locked up in cease crystals here They and. 01:01:36.95 Leonard Too old for new characters says this movie. 01:01:45.28 Leonard Yep. 01:01:49.65 Cameron Ah, a really creepy shot I don't know if it was that I wasn't paying attention to miss the first actual introductory shot of trolls here. But the first thing I saw was willow a long shot of willow running across a bridge and underneath the bridge. What I thought was his shadow for a second scurring along the bottom of the bridge and I saw I went. 01:01:54.52 Leonard A. 01:02:05.76 Leonard Ah. 01:02:08.46 Cameron Oh god ah yeah, trolls have been mentioned as the 1 thing that willow really doesn't like and they are just they're just Nell wins in very degraded e walk suits. Um, if if if and. 01:02:20.19 Leonard Yes, they look like it. It looks like the 8 boy from land of the last. 01:02:26.61 Cameron Yes, yeah, that's a good way to put. It's got like that almost apish slightly more bare face and like the the the long arms and just the wild fur and they're not particularly threatening. 01:02:44.17 Leonard Nope like some the least threatening trolls in cinema. 01:02:45.29 Cameron They just. 01:02:50.10 Cameron Jumps out and goes Uga Booga Booga and then it dies immediately. Um, willow does a little magic. Um, yeah, so ah, ah. 01:02:55.95 Leonard Yeah, and creates creates an abomination unlike anything my young mind had experienced up until that point. 01:03:07.10 Cameron God Yeah it it is awful. So like like the Army's at the Gates Ma Marigan's desperately doing his best to like strap some armor on and get a few crossbows and traps set up and stuff and willow yeah gets jumped by a troll blasts it with magic and throws it into a pond at the bottom of the castle. 01:03:24.62 Leonard Yeah, but but not before before the this the firm mounts off and it turns into a horrible flesh cocoon with 2 hydra heads springing for. 01:03:26.78 Cameron At which point your god. 01:03:32.70 Cameron Yeah, yeah, yeah I really didn't want to think about that shot ever again. But yeah it it was it was hey really disgusting and some halfway decent practical effects practical effects are good. 01:03:42.63 Leonard Yep. 01:03:46.38 Leonard Yes. 01:03:52.45 Cameron I mean it is 88 we can't be too too critical a digital effects at the time but just do more practical stuff. Hey, um, yeah, it tosses it in there and yeah, there's this 2 headed monster that they don't want to show the whole body of so it's just coming out of the lake. Ah, rears out as like a giant Rhinoceros Bat Hydra like he's got these big flat nose protrusions and yeah. 01:04:16.95 Leonard You'd know it reminds me of the king of the moon's weird. 2 headed turkey buzzard thing from Baron Munchausen but without beaks. 01:04:24.56 Cameron Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, pretty much actually it's it does feel very Harry Houseen 01:04:34.71 Leonard Um. 01:04:38.35 Leonard Yes. 01:04:40.75 Cameron Like the styling of it. Maybe not 100% the execution but it's pretty good overall, it's just really yeah, really freaky compared to what you expect of given like all the other monster designs ohar in the film is like what if a dog had a weird boar face and. 01:04:54.10 Leonard Ah. 01:04:59.44 Cameron Ah, what? if what if a chimpanzee had a weird slightly longer head. 01:05:02.99 Leonard Yes, it this is the this is the the only fantasy creature that feels like it was pulled out of a monster manual. 01:05:15.25 Cameron Yes, oh absolutely. This is like some second edition nonsense. ah ah man um yeah, yeah so we get ah we get a massive 3 way battle as Kayle's army breaks into the castle. Ah. 01:05:19.15 Leonard Um, right. 01:05:33.70 Cameron Full props to martigan here throughout the whole film. He's been going on about how he's like the greatest swordsman that's ever lived and you sort of brush that off as he's just like that roguish sleazy character. He seemed pretty good slightly earlier when they were breaking out of the camp. 01:05:40.16 Leonard Um. 01:05:48.59 Cameron And then in here he's like no I set up a full defense. There's bare traps I've got crossbows on a shield barricade and then also I can just grab a sword and go to town with the best of them. He he is genuinely probably the greatest swordsman currently alive in the setting as far as we know because we don't know anyone else. Um. 01:05:55.68 Leonard Um, yep. 01:06:02.19 Leonard Yes. 01:06:07.29 Cameron He he's displaying that sort of fantasy swordsmanship excellence which good for him. Ah so yeah, we got the side of willow and mad martigan the side of kale and then there's also just trolls and that 2 headed monster also wreaking havoc and then to further complicate things about halfway through the fight. 01:06:19.77 Leonard Yep. 01:06:26.90 Cameron Ah, Sasha realizes she is actually in love and they they share a kiss on the battlefield and then fight back to back. How romantic they've known each other for a day maybe could have been. 01:06:29.97 Leonard Yep. 01:06:38.21 Leonard Maybe who knows time has no meaning in this unknown. Um this unknown world. 01:06:45.40 Cameron Could it could have been like two weeks I guess yeah who knows it's a mystery um but in the midst of all the havoc general kale comes in grabs the baby and just gets the hell out of dodge because he actually knows how to do his job. 01:07:01.90 Cameron His job was to get the baby. He has acquired the baby. He's leaving ah man. Ah so yeah, ah now specifically Bav Mortar needs the baby alive because you. 01:07:06.12 Leonard Um, yep. 01:07:16.70 Cameron I Guess Souls are real reincarnation is the thing because she needs the baby for ritual to banish The baby's spirit outside of the universe. So it can never come back I'm like okay so it's it's a good. It's a good plot point because you can't just shoot the baby with a crossbow and go it's done. 01:07:19.25 Leonard Um. 01:07:25.95 Leonard Um I love. 01:07:31.96 Leonard Right? like. 01:07:34.11 Cameron Because another baby nine months from now will pop up as like the the magical saor of the world or something so it's it's It's a good dapp. It's a bit of good like plotting is like no, we need to actually like exercise the soul out of the baby or whatever. Um. 01:07:47.28 Leonard Yeah I I literally need to cast this infant soul into the pit or else I'm going to be doing this forever. 01:07:59.14 Cameron Just yeah, just once a year like ah yet toddler with a weird mark on its arm. Let's do this again I guess. 01:08:04.21 Leonard And honestly given like the ah her military and ah magical control. She should actually just that should just be the route that she takes at this point to be perfectly. Honest. 01:08:13.79 Cameron Yeah, just sort of set up a spartan society but instead of checking for birth defects. You're checking for that 1 weird Birth Mark just toss them off the cliff if they've got the the little tree birth Mark on their arm or whatever. 01:08:21.38 Leonard Number. Yep. I mean I I mean her her castle is basically a cliff. 01:08:35.13 Cameron Yeah, it is. It's all it's all edges. No flat planes. Oh god ah yeah, ah so obviously our heroes have to save the day they proceed. All the way to nochmar castle which is Bav Moore's base of operations and on the way they're joined by the remnants of Eric's army because believe it or not a giant 2 wo-headed monster that explodes when it dies didn't do a great deal of good for ah Bavmor's forces when they had to fight it. 01:09:06.43 Leonard Get yep. 01:09:11.23 Cameron So they've got a chance. They can actually sort of lay siege at which point Bavmora shows why she's known as the sorcerer queen and with like 2 words in normal english while she's just speaking not even casting like a rich. 01:09:23.77 Leonard From a bear bat. 01:09:27.47 Cameron Yeah, not not even casting like the ritual mumbo jumbo kind of spells Willow's been having to do just as she's casually speaking turns the entire enemy army into picks again really brutal seeming transformation seems like it's a really nasty internal polymorph. 01:09:35.20 Leonard Yeah. 01:09:43.14 Leonard A. 01:09:46.69 Cameron Kind of thing kind of wish we knew how that kind of stuff worked a bit more but we're never going to find out um willow protects himself with Raziele's help by casting like a sanctuary spell as well as finally is essential. We we missed another failed polymorph. She got turned into a goat. 01:09:51.33 Leonard Nope. 01:10:02.57 Leonard She did? yep. 01:10:05.67 Cameron And had to put on a terrible voice for like 15 minutes um but ah finally gets the sanctuary spell right? and finally manages to polymorph finseal into her true human form which Val Kilmer was really looking forward to because she described herself as a young, beautiful woman and then she's. And old honestly looking good for her age woman and she just looks at her hands and goes has it really been that long like brushtail possums don't have a sense of time I guess um. 01:10:28.45 Leonard Yes, and no I like to um I like to imagine like that she was like young and immortal as long as the spell was active. And the minute that she transformed back It was like and now age appropriate like like it was almost like it was almost like a counter like just like a just in case like somebody manages to free her from this like if it's. 01:10:44.45 Cameron Ah, okay. 01:10:48.23 Cameron So yeah, catch up on those like 60 years you missed. 01:10:58.64 Cameron M. 01:11:03.42 Leonard Been long enough. She'll just crumble into dust when she does. 01:11:06.76 Cameron Yep yep, oh man. Um, yeah, at this point now they have their own powerful sourcerer who's armed with a powerful magical wand not a stick um fin reveal manages to transmute the entire army. 01:11:23.35 Leonard Yes. 01:11:24.53 Cameron Back and they they launch a surprise assault basically because balthmore is very busy with the apparently hours long ritual to banish the soul of a baby. 01:11:35.56 Leonard I'd like I was ah that was kind of my favorite I was like you know what I'm going to give this one a pass because ah time hasn't been kind to like the flow of time in this movie has been nebulous and vague. 01:11:43.85 Cameron Mm. 01:11:48.20 Cameron Yeah, yeah. 01:11:51.98 Leonard And I'm like ok well, she's like trying to literally banish the essence of a person from the known universe. So I'm going to say yeah, it's fine if this ritual requires like 18 hours to put together. 01:12:00.22 Cameron Um, yeah. 01:12:06.10 Cameron Yeah, yeah, exactly that that feels good and that's like that hits that sort of tabletop fantasy thing as well whereas like rituals do just sometimes take forever to do like the yeah. 01:12:19.40 Leonard Right? Ah, no go on. 01:12:23.79 Cameron There's some stuff in various table dog games like it takes an extra 10 minutes to do a ritual spell or takes an hour or then you get to certain ones. It's like well it depends on the ritual. It could be like three weeks and you just you just got to have someone to subb in for you while you take a rest each day stuff like that. But yeah. 01:12:34.33 Leonard Ah. 01:12:36.92 Leonard Right. 01:12:42.28 Cameron I Like the idea that the the big crazy magic like yeah banish this eternal soul outside of the celestial wheel takes a while to do that's that's not normal magic. 01:12:53.40 Leonard Um, and also my favorite part is it's a just a quick cutaway. It's like directly after she changed ah changes the army into pigs like she goes into her ritual Chamber and she has this walk. That's like. 01:13:03.88 Cameron You. 01:13:08.14 Leonard Ah, now that that bullshit's done with time to get back to work. Um, and also this is when she's revealed to be dressed exactly like mamro from the Thundercats for literally no reason. 01:13:14.00 Cameron Um. 01:13:21.85 Cameron Yeah, she is my God yes. 01:13:24.82 Leonard I was just like I was just like what is going on like she is dressed exactly like mumro and then begins to turn into a mummy during the final battle I'm like what is I'm like did thundercats. 01:13:38.83 Cameron Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. 01:13:44.69 Leonard Steal Mom Raz design from will. 01:13:48.93 Cameron Possibly you never know oh man. Yeah, ah so yeah, outside on the battlefield general kale kills good old Eric. I hate the way the names. It's a irk and they just call him Eric and I just wished he looks like a viking call him Eric that's a good name. That's a fantasy name. 01:14:07.66 Leonard Yeah, yes, yep, Nope Nope it has to be fantasy adjacent but not something that anybody could say was taken from anything. It's all original. 01:14:26.21 Cameron Air god please give me 1 more syllable. Um yeah ko ko kills Eric but ah Mad Marigan does his thing and Jules him to death pretty easily. 01:14:28.15 Leonard Yep. 01:14:39.24 Cameron He he's the greatest swordsman that's ever lived. He's vi. 01:14:41.48 Leonard And it and it's a shame because there's something that happens because this final battle is split into two. There's the the armies mad Morgan Eric and kale and then there's the magic with ah ah. 01:14:53.15 Cameron Yeah, sosha. Yeah yeah. 01:14:54.37 Leonard Ah, Bav Mora and and raele and daughter exactly go. So um and there was this thing that happened and I was like ah because we're going to get into literally my favorite thing about this movie during the magic fight which it is um, a. 01:15:10.72 Cameron Um, yeah, yeah. 01:15:14.29 Leonard Ah, first instance of hey we're going to show magic. Ah but we're not going to apply a special effect to it. Um, ah, which was something that I was like ah from lord of the rings which I actually loved I was like amen that wizard fight was really cool because there weren't a bunch of special effects the noting magic. 01:15:19.60 Cameron And. 01:15:33.80 Leonard I'm like oh I guess willow did it first? Um, but we do get some special effects and we get my favorite thing in the universe that I had totally forgotten about and it's the living reliquary. 01:15:34.50 Cameron Yeah, um, yeah. 01:15:45.14 Cameron Oh man, Yeah, give it to us tell us all about this rail query. 01:15:51.29 Leonard Oh it's it's It's a It's a what is it is a tripod. It's just a Tripod kind of like evil ritual bone holding pot. Ah um, that get get zapped by the magic wand because the two sorceresses. 01:16:00.63 Cameron Yeah, yeah, pretty much. 01:16:08.84 Leonard Are fighting over it and it comes to life and it's horrible. 01:16:12.86 Cameron Yep, it's so gross I Just don't like the way it moves. 01:16:16.84 Leonard It I Love that I love that the the arm and hand bones in it are what's propping up the the lid like pushing the lid up to like be like a mouth. It's like the most horrific mimic like. 01:16:25.97 Cameron Think. 01:16:34.20 Cameron Yeah, so. 01:16:36.71 Leonard That isn't a dar souls mimic. It's my favorite thing and willow you know fights it and pushes it out and I really wish because since this the actions happening in parallel with one another that like when Mad Mar again stabbed kale 01:16:42.98 Cameron And. 01:16:53.58 Leonard Then the the reliquary just like smashes him through the through the the bridge and you know Mad Margan looks up and willa looks down. They have like a little moment of acknowledgment and then back to it. 01:16:56.99 Cameron Ah, man that would have been cool. 01:17:11.25 Cameron Yeah, that would have been cool. Oh man. Yeah, ah they they have the the big old big old magic battle. Ah, and as as raziel and sosra defeated in it. Ah, we turn over to willow who has the baby the baby all Laura is like where's the baby and willow jumping the first this is the longest shot shekoff's gun I've seen in a while right right? at the start of the movie willow was doing sleight of hand at the at the town festival and made a piglet disappear beneath the cloth. 01:17:38.84 Leonard Um. 01:17:47.30 Cameron And then he does exactly the same thing with the baby just has had. Yeah oh yeah. 01:17:47.29 Leonard Um, yeah, but he he does he does huckster it up a little. He's like I'm a powerful so sorcerer. And I'm going to send her to a place where you'll never be able to find her or hurt her. She's like you'll never.. There's no such plate like she's palpatining it up like harder than I've ever Seen. He's like hes no such place outside of my Pa view. 01:18:06.30 Cameron Oh yeah, yeah. 01:18:15.19 Cameron It's a good line. Yeah, he really handss it up. He does He does the magic trick where he just clearly drops the baby behind the bit of rock. He's standing behind and it's like oh he he is a great sorcerer. 01:18:16.60 Leonard Who. 01:18:23.27 Leonard Yep. 01:18:27.21 Cameron Ah, got to go find the baby I got to get them and get the get the locate the baby she steps into the ritual circle and just banishes herself outside of space and time. 01:18:32.76 Leonard Yep, Yeah, she's literally she's so shocked by the Che is sleight of hand trick that she exiles her essence out of the known universe. 01:18:48.14 Cameron It's great again. It really calls back to like that that the elder high old when go doing like the social engineering is magic like you you would You would never be able to beat her in magic but you're a better sorcerer than her because you were able to trick her. 01:18:57.44 Leonard Um. 01:19:04.18 Leonard Me right? Um, we get some ah away hey guess what you know what? one of my favorite things on the planet is old 80 s and 90 s hand drawn vfx. Um. 01:19:04.35 Cameron That counts that's magic. 01:19:16.67 Cameron Ah, yeah, yep, yep. 01:19:17.65 Leonard The lightning is so good. She gets struck by lightning you see her Skeleton animated underneath it The the pots of ritual blood that she's using begin to steam up an envelope and I'm just like ah man like. 01:19:35.87 Leonard I Wish more people would just like hire the effects animators for special effects in movies because it looks so good and you can make it look so good nowadays. 01:19:38.92 Cameron Please? Yeah, Yeah yeah I think a lot of the lot of the like movement away from that is people going it looked so goofy. But. Sometimes that's good. This looks Incredible. It fits like someone might look at it. It looks a little dated. It looks a little goofy like no, it's great. It's Fine. We can also do much better than that nowadays if you just give people a shot. It'd be so good. Yeah yeah. 01:19:58.83 Leonard Um, right? yes. 01:20:07.56 Leonard Right? right? using the exact same techniques with modern day technology. You can make it work. 01:20:14.72 Cameron And absolutely I would actually be all in for like a magic series where it was shot entirely without effects like the Saraman and Gandal fight. 01:20:27.15 Leonard Um. 01:20:28.35 Cameron And then you just paid you paid like a cartoon network animator to come in and sell in some cool shots. Cool stuff over the top over the top that would be really awesome actually like magic is 2 dimensional because only us the viewer can actually see it so it's something like that. 01:20:32.70 Leonard Yes. 01:20:41.60 Leonard And right. 01:20:46.85 Cameron Oh man. Um, but yeah, the the day is one The kingdom of tyra lean is restored I Guess maybe I don't know the castle's looking in better shape. Um, ah yeah, ah looks saucer and Mad Mariggan they're love. They're gonna be. 01:20:55.44 Leonard Yeah. 01:21:05.52 Leonard Everyone else is dead. This kingdom is ours squatters rights for kingdoms. 01:21:05.71 Cameron King and Queen of tear is lean I guess I guess everyone else is dead. Yeah, pretty much I mean hey I'll take it. 01:21:20.72 Leonard I Mean yeah and also not entirely historically inaccurate as well. So but. 01:21:28.35 Cameron Um, yeah, yeah, absolutely, that's that's kind of that's the kind of thing I can get behind. Um they they are obviously adopting a Laura as that actual child because they're just. 01:21:41.48 Cameron Just got to skip straight past all the all the pre-ch child part of marriage and skip straight into having a two month old baby which I'm sure I'm sure will be the best possible test of their new relationship. Ah Raslle gifts willow a spellbook. 01:21:46.10 Leonard Yes. 01:21:52.21 Leonard This is a. 01:21:59.93 Cameron Like cool you've done a great job. You've got such potential to be a great sorcerer read. No no. But. 01:22:04.18 Leonard You're You're not a great sorcer by the way that that that Journey remains unfulfilled the thing that you wanted to be doesn't happen in this film but here keep trying. 01:22:13.90 Cameron Absolutely not absolutely you can do it if you if you try you've got the bede. 01:22:19.50 Leonard You right? you she might as well have said, you'll be a great sorcerer in the sequel and then turn square at the camera stare into audiences eyes for like 10 seconds 01:22:34.75 Cameron We only had to wait 34 years 01:22:36.47 Leonard And wink at us. Yep. 01:22:44.95 Cameron Ah, yeah, and he returns home which some would say in Triumph ah, and it's honestly a very sweet scene. He rides back in on a pony. Everyone everyone's happy to see him. He tosses an apple up into the air and it transmutes into a seagull. 01:22:53.50 Leonard E. 01:23:02.12 Cameron Ah, which immediately craps on Burgel Cut's face because that's burgel Cut's Character R because he's still a mean old bastard and he still still has disgusting organic substances all over him. Um, and yeah, he returns home to his wife and children and it's. 01:23:06.91 Leonard Yep. 01:23:10.19 Leonard So that. 01:23:21.50 Cameron Very touching like honestly the the wife seeing him and just sprinting over to him. It's It's incredibly cute and sweet and the kids and everything. Yeah yeah, and we we pan out to like the long shot of the traffic cone mountains did this. 01:23:27.26 Leonard And. 01:23:34.18 Leonard Listen, it's a fantasy Matt Painting 01:23:38.67 Cameron Ah, so tall. It's a beautiful map painting but I'm looking at this I'm like we've seen these incredible natural shots of New Zealand this entire film. Why did we never see any of these in the far back. They must be visible for miles in every direction. 01:23:53.00 Leonard But it's because the camera was so short to the ground because of our stars. 01:23:59.30 Cameron I mean yeah I do appreciate that throughout the throughout the film most of the camera is set at like nellwin height for a lot of the stuff because in a lot of the scenes you only have warwick davis as the actual the only human actor on the set. 01:24:05.72 Leonard First? Yes, yes. 01:24:15.10 Cameron Like with with the brownies and with chilindrian stuff they were rotoscoped in later if it's just if it's just um, Warwick Davis and a small animal they're in the same height range like it. It really did put you in the shoes of a nell when it made the the the. 01:24:15.44 Leonard Um. 01:24:33.10 Cameron More averagely heighted actors feel quite large in comparison sort of fell out of a bit by the end where you had like armies of dikinnis facing off against each other and like okay this this has become a Human-centric story again. All of a sudden. But yeah it it did really put you into shoes for that. 01:24:34.97 Leonard Yeah. 01:24:42.96 Leonard Bright. 01:24:52.10 Cameron Yeah, cut 30 minutes of putting you you in his shoes because the the good stuff's near the end of the movie the movie ends really? Well I love it. 01:24:54.59 Leonard Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, like I said of I was like oh that's the reason why I don't remember anything about willow because I only remember the last forty minutes of this movie. 01:25:10.82 Cameron Um, ah. 01:25:11.79 Leonard And and I and I then came to realize yes I did in fact, watch willow a number of times as a children as a as a children as multiple children. Um, ah, um. 01:25:18.60 Cameron As it as it. Oh man. 01:25:26.41 Leonard But that's because I would rent it from the video store I would put the the vhs into my vcr and then fast forward to the last thirty minutes of this photo. 01:25:39.32 Cameron Honestly, that's optimal childhood viewing and I commend you for that. That's great. You you knew exactly what you wanted and you got it out of that film multiple times. 01:25:43.86 Leonard Um, yep, yep. 01:25:47.95 Leonard Yeah, exactly yeah, that's willow that movie has some pacing problems like nobody's business I was just like I can like when I was like this movie's 2 hours how is it. 01:25:53.31 Cameron But yeah, yeah, that's willow. Yeah. 01:26:06.65 Leonard How is this? How is this movie 2 hours and then as I watched it I was still like how how is this? there's nothing. There's nothing. You won't give me any once again dying like I was mad Mardigan in that crow's cage who desperately. 01:26:13.10 Cameron Um, yeah, um, information information. Please. 01:26:25.63 Leonard Desperate anything anything about this world to the point that like I was watching it I was like okay maybe maybe this is just a really bad adaptation of a thing that already exists and I'm like is willow an adaptation and I'm just like no, it's not this is all original. There's nothing. 01:26:38.34 Cameron Mm. 01:26:45.22 Cameron Yep! nope. 01:26:45.34 Leonard It's all original and there's nothing Why how can you do this to me. 01:26:51.83 Cameron Ah, it's an history. But yeah like god it it is a really good film if you if you cut 30 minutes out as a 90 minute movie this would honestly be really perfect I think but. 01:27:00.67 Leonard Um, ah the yeah yeah I agree I'd still. 01:27:07.58 Cameron It's got all the charm. It's got the good stuff at the end just doesn't have to ramble so much. But. 01:27:12.91 Leonard Yeah I mean there's like like there's ah there are aspects of like yeah, it's the yeah, the pacing is is really really abysmal the pacing and the world building like just drove me. 01:27:22.97 Cameron M. 01:27:26.98 Leonard Into connections the entire watch time until like willow turn that troll into a flesh cocoon and I was like I do remember this part of the movie. Oh this is where the movie starts getting good. Okay I can focus again. 01:27:35.34 Cameron Oh god yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly oh man, yeah, worth a watch just be aware. You might lose track somewhere in the first sort of yeah ninety ish minutes but yeah it's 01:27:59.88 Leonard Yep. 01:28:02.79 Cameron It's really really charming and it does have some actually good effects I just looked up the um, the 2 headed creature parent. It's called an ebacysk. Um, but they they have like the full model of it. There's a shot of like in a warehouse in the head like the size of a Volkswagen or whatever. Yeah. 01:28:17.76 Leonard Oh yeah, yeah I don't actually I Yeah, it's really cool and I actually wouldn't never want to see it in real life actually to be perfectly on it I've read I. 01:28:22.27 Cameron Yeah, really cool. Um, fair enough. Don't look that up and ah god. 01:28:33.15 Leonard I'd rather look at the that modern day Hoggle State of Hoggle Ah like I'd rather be sat in a room with that than ever see a perfectly preserved version of the creature from willow. 01:28:40.54 Cameron Ah, that's fair. That's fair, um, but yeah I did enjoy the film. There's kind of spacing issues. But it's still worth watching. Um, it is yeah like I said it's really charming. Warwick Davis does a pretty good job. Val Kilmer is Val Kilmer um ah I checked his Wikipedia page just as part of the the preliminary research for this and I missed I misread the born. 01:29:04.84 Leonard This is just. 01:29:16.53 Cameron Section and the act of from sexual light. He was born in 1981 that's not he wasn't eight years old when he filmed this might explain his behavior. But yeah, it's it's really good. Um I have no idea what the Tv series is like so I'll start watching that soon. Ah, but i. 01:29:20.95 Leonard That's. 01:29:35.38 Leonard Um. 01:29:36.21 Cameron I am interested in it because my my thought going into this film was that I would watch what presumably the Tv series is and and that that this whole actual film would have been like a cut to black fifteen years later logo and that would have been what this. 01:29:44.92 Leonard Ah, ah. 01:29:54.80 Cameron Film actually turned out to be as like oh cool, it's not actually about the main character of the setting. It's not about a Laura it's about this this little guy on his on his mission to technically save the world before the world has to be saved. Although. 01:30:08.19 Leonard Yeah. 01:30:12.88 Cameron I guess technically the prophecy was fulfilled like the baby brought about the downfall of Queen Bathmora yeah 01:30:18.53 Leonard Yep, sure did it's man that kind of that oh man that ironic monkeys pa prophecy that was real prevalent in the 80 s of hey if you just did nothing then everything would have been fun like I said. 01:30:26.49 Cameron Yeah, ah yeah. 01:30:33.70 Leonard This is the reason why she shouldn't have even tried the ritual. She should have just chucked a baby off of a cliff every year for the rest of eternity. 01:30:42.25 Cameron It's way easier way easier. Ah like yeah, it's it's the very much like no man of 1 born style fulfillment of a prophecy and then you get to pick between I am no man and I was born fire a c-section. So it doesn't count a ah. 01:30:50.55 Leonard Yep yep. 01:30:57.52 Leonard You. 01:31:01.77 Cameron Which hey yeah hey I could be a shakespearean protagonist good for me. 01:31:08.46 Leonard I Ah man if it. Ah if if it had been that one advisor that had given her the prophecy immediately and like they just scans the parchment and it says your paranoia will cause you to exile your soul from the universe. 01:31:13.62 Cameron E. 01:31:21.77 Cameron I. 01:31:23.23 Leonard Because of a baby and he's just like yeah I'll just shorten it to the baby will cause your demise. 01:31:31.44 Cameron It's like listen I'm getting 15 of these prophecies every day you can you just boil it down to the essential parts like yeah, sure baby causes end of rain. Excellent good send it out. Don't you don't need the full sentence there you wanted a 5 word or less prophecy. 01:31:39.49 Leonard If yeah, yeah, um, and um and see that's actually you know what you want to add some like comedy world building like tell us what that her advisers her evil cabal of. 01:31:50.75 Cameron And. 01:31:56.22 Leonard Of Old wizened men who are in charge of prophesizing things are doing and like how much they hate her because she never she she listened to them once and never again. 01:32:03.75 Cameron Oh man. 01:32:12.67 Cameron I've foreseen that it will rain on Tuesday we must forestall the jows like no no, it'll be fine for never listens listen to the 1 thing about a baby the unimportant one about a baby where if you'd left it alone. Nothing would happen I'm telling you materially. 01:32:15.81 Leonard Yeah. 01:32:28.53 Cameron It will rain on Tuesday your event will be ruined and you're ignoring me. 01:32:32.51 Leonard Um, um, and I ah this this side story is probably 1 of the best things I think we come up with it. 01:32:36.40 Cameron Oh it's it's it's good it's good it's good I love that advisor I wish the well for him I hope he shows up in the Tv series like just. 01:32:48.55 Leonard Yeah. 01:32:51.80 Cameron And just in the in the evil adviser at time at I like she never listened but now I can win bridge every week 01:32:55.13 Leonard You get or or just just like I've got this magic mirror that shows so screaming in the space Beyond forever. 01:33:10.81 Cameron Um, we just we just? yeah, we just check in once a week make sure she's still circling around the drain of the never ending void. 01:33:11.33 Leonard I get to mocker sometimes. 01:33:22.70 Leonard Ah, all right? That's good. That's that that we we? yeah we yeah the good bit though good bit I'm happy with this bit all right that is going to cut up. Ah. 01:33:22.33 Cameron Yeah I think that's that we've milked that good bit. Absolutely oh. 01:33:37.46 Leonard In our coverage of willow. Yes, it's I have problems with it I have problems with its with the direction and some the editing and definitely it's pacing and worldbuding. But if you go into the film knowing what it is ah you will probably have a good time. 01:33:54.52 Cameron M. 01:33:56.51 Leonard And also you shouldn't feel bad about skipping ahead. Um, because there's it's once again, it's literally allergic to exposition so you will not skip past anything. 01:33:59.31 Cameron Yeah, so. 01:34:10.49 Leonard Ah, that informs you other than what you are seeing with your eyes and hearing with your ears. 01:34:10.95 Cameron So um. 01:34:14.85 Cameron Yeah, watch like the first fifteen minutes to get the set up and then skipped like the forty five fifty minutes in you probably won't miss too much. 01:34:23.49 Leonard Um, yeah, yes, ah. 01:34:28.29 Cameron Ah, honestly, you could cut out Val Kilmer at the crossroads and just have them meet him at the tavern and it probably works about as well. 01:34:32.49 Leonard Yeah, just remove at any mention of the fact that willow gave him the baby in the first place. 01:34:39.85 Cameron Yeah, ah man Yeah, the release the willow cut. Um, because oh God No, that's bad joke because it's shorter. Um, yeah, let's do some as finish shop you can find the show. 01:34:47.19 Leonard Instance. 01:34:56.60 Cameron Still on Twitter at mon unscore demonster. You can find out erstwhile co-host Dave at sentinel underscore plus more or less across social media. You can find me on Twitter at night unscore Twitter and that's night without a k I'm still there mostly just scrolling through the the timeline slow with dissolving. Leonard you're the one of us that actually produces interesting content that people might want to see where is it? Well oh apart from the podcast apart from the podcast. 01:35:19.99 Leonard Yes, ah well I am also ah, that's no, that's ah that true this this podcast is interesting, interesting ah and way to just cut the legs out from under this podcast right? at the. 01:35:33.30 Cameron Wolf. Yeah. 01:35:37.64 Leonard Right? at the finish line. Ah you can find me ah on Twitter at Dr Faust is dead. You can also find my secondary professional Twitter account at Umbranots Productions and you can find my ah. Ah, video essay video game video essay work on ah Youtube ah by searching Dr Faust's dead and ah my film work by searching at umbranat's productions and ah from ah Cameron and I I think this is as good a place to call it. 01:36:09.81 Cameron Button. 01:36:11.29 Leonard Thank you for joining us again on this episode of Monster Dear Monster and we will see you later goodbye. 01:36:20.20 Cameron Bye Bye everyone. So. 01:36:24.52 Cameron All right and on a july.