03:52.46 Leonard Hello I'm Leonard and today I am joined by Dave Dave how are you. 04:00.93 Dave I'm I'm doing pretty good. It's the weekend I am happy to be recording again. We are we are sends Cameron he had some obligations to take care of ah which is unfortunate because all 3 of us were looking forward to. This particular episode I think but we will. We will put a pin in it and return at a later time to so more of this franchise so Leonard. What are we? What? What did we watch for this episode. 04:25.44 Leonard Ah, nice. 04:31.20 Leonard Yes, we are watching a movie yet again. Finally I know everybody and we watched hell razor 2022 the remake 04:45.80 Dave Um, yeah I um you I I want to say you that behind the scene curtain reveal. Um, some things we announced to each other in advance and this was kind of one of them. Um, and I want to say Leonard you. Suggested this one. 05:02.93 Leonard Yeah I you know? Ah hey we talk about monsters and synabites are pretty monstrous and I figured why not ride the wave of the social zeitgeist and talk about a new thing right around the time that it came out. And that was literally my only reasoning about behind making this suggestion. 05:25.29 Dave Yeah, it came out like two weeks ago to October seventh so this month few weeks ago um yeah we don't it's been a while since I think we've done something as it came out. Maybe the um, the ah. 05:28.66 Leonard Yes, yes. 05:37.76 Leonard Yeah. Yes, yes. 05:43.33 Dave But bli manner. Yeah, it's been a minute. Um, yeah I was ah intrigued. It's It's been a very long time since I've watched a hell razor film or any of the clive barer like franchise kind of spinoff stuff. 06:00.72 Leonard A. 06:03.17 Dave Ah, so that was fun. 20 years things it's like like to sat down and watch the hell raiseiser. It hasn't been that long I think a couple years ago I may have rewatched some of them. Yeah, these are ones that I kind of. 06:10.33 Leonard Get you. 06:22.40 Dave I'll throw on every now and then yeah I've seen them enough. Um, they don't do anything new each time I will. They're not iterative. Um. 06:25.18 Leonard They're good background noise kind of films. Yeah, no, they do I will argue that they do less each time. Um, no. 06:41.20 Dave With the exception of I think the first three that's a good little package and it could have just never gone further than that um, aside from the comic books which were really good and we'll talk about those at another time when Cameron's back on board. Ah yeah, so this one. 06:41.77 Leonard Oh yes. 06:59.70 Dave It didn't just came out. It was directed by David Bruckner who we want. We watched when we watched and we talked discussed the ritual which was really good and his previous film to that I think was 2009 the signal which was a sort of zombie. 07:08.27 Leonard Yes. 07:19.26 Dave Kind of adjacent one. It came out around the same time as ponte pool I believe and both are just like a little fresh spin on that. 07:23.19 Leonard That okay, so so it's it's around that like what was what was the Stephen King cell was that also yeah, sell ponty pull and the signal right? and. 07:34.10 Dave Yeah, yeah, let's do weird transmission stuff in Messoied brains. Um, pontipo was fun because that was like a weird like me as an I well was meme as ah, ah the actual. 07:43.10 Leonard Bottle episode. 07:49.40 Dave Mimetic transmission of a thing like a concept and if you heard it it messed with your brain? Yeah um, but yeah, so he's he's done some fun stuff I I wasn't sure what to expect. 07:50.15 Leonard A right right? right? turn to you right. 08:09.20 Dave When I realized that this was going to be a David brugner film and that it was ah on hulu um, so the the production on this one in particular and the lasts probably the last like dozen not not a dozen the last. 7 or so um, hellways or films has been storied like there's just been a lot of issues and and this one in particular was bounced around for like 10 years over and over and over and getting different directors and different. 08:33.28 Leonard Yes. 08:45.70 Dave Producers different writers. So it's just been like a nightmare um and ah that being the case. Ah the the film's fine like turned out fine given how much it was kicked around. 08:56.69 Leonard A. 09:03.76 Leonard Um, yeah, yes, yeah, production Hell is is is bad for a film No matter what. 09:03.77 Dave Because that's always a big worry. 09:13.25 Dave Yeah, ah, but otherwise yeah, this was ah it's It's a it's a reboot I Really wish that wasn't a word that we've complained about it before Reboots reimaginings. Whatever um they're they're. 09:31.42 Dave The restarting I guess because it's not dealing with any prior heraiser. It's it's its own thing. No no, no, it's not um and the thing is it's not even really thematically either. So there's. 09:36.34 Leonard Right? It isn't even up. It isn't even a remake of the original help. So. 09:46.84 Leonard Now. 09:50.46 Dave It's just its own thing. There's some similar stuff going on and we'll we'll dig into that so this movie um, it's 2 hours long and it is centering primarily on the character of Riley and she is. Dealing with um, recovering from drug addiction. So she's living with her brother and her living with her lover but she goes and visits him I guess um and they're. 10:12.35 Leonard Um, yes. 10:29.64 Dave I Don't think any of them are in like financially stable situation. It's a they're just yeah and in that roommate. Yeah. 10:31.58 Leonard No because her brother lives with like lives with his boyfriend and a roommate in like what it has to be a 3 bedroom apartment unless the roommate lives in living room. So. 10:47.52 Dave Yeah, so they're just you know the economy sucks and yeah, but what's your roommates to kind of get by and she Riley is um, she's not in a good headspace. So she's she's just really trying to get herself moving forward, but it's a lot of back pedaling to do so and her brother is trying to help her but she's um, she just keeps kind of relapsing and he's had enough of it. 11:11.70 Leonard Yeah. 11:22.17 Dave And just general I think day-to-day stressors. Um, he ends up kicking around of the house. Ah, and I guess right prior to that. Um, she had found ah a puzzle box. 11:38.22 Leonard Um, yes. 11:41.22 Dave That her her boyfriend because they're hurting for money and he's like ah um, he he does delivery for like art houses and things and so he lets her know that hey I there's ah, there's an abandoned like um. 11:48.79 Leonard M. 12:01.44 Dave Stockard 1 of those called those containers container shipping container and um, it's people like rich dudes had been storing stuff in there. Yeah. 12:02.67 Leonard Yes. 12:12.10 Leonard Yeah, they do just do blind drops. Um because you know it's the art world and there are things that people are probably stealing from other countries and cultures and just dropping there So some. You know, rich. So and so can add it to their collection that nobody will ever see exactly. 12:32.60 Dave Yeah, and it's probably a way to avoid customs and all kinds of other other other um legal problems. But anyway ah, he's like um, whatever they have this. It's is like millionaire something so something's it's got to be worth something., Whatever's in that container. No One's come by to claim it. It's just still sitting there. Um I can get us that if you're willing to help me like steal it and we'll sell it and split the split the money and then we can just like live you know off of that and not to worry about your brother and and all this other mess. And in doing so they they find a a puzzle box and that that particular box is something that opens a portal to hell and summons particular demons to. Punish Basically whoever was like messing with the box. 13:27.44 Leonard Yes, ah specifically in this one because ah, we're going. Ah there are going to be a lot of parallels and discussion about it in relation to at least the first two films. Ah, but opening the box isn't enough in this one. The box has a an Assassin's creed Blade built into it that stabs you and and that's the the stabbing is the the catalyst for the hell taking. 13:56.49 Dave Yeah, when you get stabbed by the little knife. Um, you're marked and you are rendered a so it's kind of um, reminds me of the mark of sacrifice in Berserk you get tagged with this and then. 14:11.91 Leonard Um, yes. 14:14.25 Dave Demons come after you and they'll keep coming after you until you're dead. It's It's 1 to one So that's what happens there um, the box itself has 6 different forms. It can take or rather that you're supposed to put it into these configurations And. Ah, once they're all used up like each one requires a sacrifice to like activate and then you can move to the next step So Whoever is holding the box on the sixth transformation of it. Um, gets to meet with. Ah. 14:37.67 Leonard A. 14:51.28 Dave Leviathan which is like the overlord of hell and then you're you're granted a boon and you get to pick from 1 of 6 things. So the movie we'll get into that a little bit. Um. 14:56.53 Leonard Yes. 15:09.86 Dave So Riley has the box and then she gets kicked out of her brother's house. Her brother comes out to ah try to like not really making up with her. He's just checking on her. 15:27.10 Leonard Yeah, well she yeah she she ah solves one of the configurations and avoids being stabbed by the knife and then has a horrific dream that somehow also wakes her brother up and sends him looking for her. 15:31.00 Dave So yeah. 15:43.17 Leonard Ah. 15:44.90 Dave Yeah, yeah, that's what it is so he he goes out and looks for her and then he accidentally gets dinged by the the knife and he is sacrificed um and then without doing a play by place. We don't need to. Ah. 16:01.85 Dave Her requests is to try to save her brother. She has to figure out what to do to bring him back because you didn't know she isn't she has no idea what happened to him She was like she had taken pills. She was back on the the wagon and um. 16:05.16 Leonard Guest. 16:21.76 Dave Does not remember like what happened she didn't see it so he just vanished and so she's trying to retrace like what happened and does that have something to do with this weird box because she's been seeing. 16:22.78 Leonard Exactly right. 16:39.77 Dave Demons and weird stuff so she she gets her boyfriend to try to help her out and they track down. Um the land. The the previous um suddenly owner it's The. Ah, title holder I Guess of the um, the container. 16:58.19 Leonard Um, yes, who was the accountant I believe yes. 17:06.77 Dave Yeah, ah yeah, assistant. 17:12.62 Leonard Ah, a woman who who had various tasks in relation to an obscenely rich person that had the hell Razor Box beforehand so if you if you're familiar, you probably understand what this character was doing. 17:17.47 Dave Yeah, so yeah. 17:28.66 Dave Yeah, she so it's Serena Meneker she's um a voice lawyer void is the owner of that container and the current owner of the box or ah was as of six years ago prior to um, Riley's 17:38.60 Leonard Yes. 17:45.92 Dave Pardon this story. Yeah, so they track down Serena and that goes all kinds of sideways. It goes real bad and then they ultimately make their way. 17:52.59 Leonard Goes real bad. 18:03.33 Dave They do some internet research and make their way to voice like mansion. 18:08.42 Leonard I just have to say that I the the thing so like I kind of always roll my eyes when when characters do internet research in modern but there was 1 thing that saved it for me which is. 18:19.32 Dave That's why like I tried to say it in quotes. 18:26.73 Leonard The like very accurate like typing in of his name where it's like the first she accidentally capitalizes the first 2 letters of his name and then like the search engine has to autocorrect the spelling on his last name and I was like you know what. I appreciate that because that feels very real. 18:49.50 Dave Oh yeah, they probably had like ah you know they just made a fake webpage pop up so it actually Google auto filled. Yeah, it's um. 18:55.64 Leonard Um, oh yeah, yes. 19:05.67 Dave That's that's what happens they go to his mansion and they find out that it's a um, ah weird like 13 ghosts like sex mansion. 19:08.15 Leonard Um. 19:18.69 Leonard It's yep, that's what I took away from 13 goes all right? ah. 19:24.23 Dave Hey, if if only that had made that movie a little bit more interesting. Um and they but yes, the 2 of them go there to find out that um her brother's boyfriend and and roommate. 19:27.39 Leonard Shit. 19:41.84 Dave Um, track them as well. So they all do. It's all of them eventually there at the mansion. 19:45.49 Leonard Yes, she she? Yeah, she ends up there on her own and ends up doing a bunch of research and because I could. 19:53.27 Dave Yeah, her her boyfriend tried to like run away with the box and so she got mad. 19:58.54 Leonard Yeah, and left and did did the thing on her own. She decided to velma on her own and then the rest of the Scooby gang show up after nightfall. 20:02.95 Dave Now. 20:11.89 Dave Yeah, and it just goes from there to them uncovering because she finds a diary vos diary erston's known boat notebook really a nicely embossed one obviously some good custom work. But ah it has pages of his. Ah, discovery of the box and ah, she's flipping through the pages like really quickly. But there's a lot of it's it's Handfully Handwritten like all the pages are filled with like notes. Um, and so I was like pausing trying to like read them individually because she's just. 20:39.20 Leonard In. 20:48.48 Dave Flipping really fast and it it looked like initially Void may have had a wife that died and was searching for or he just attributes that to pinhead. 20:56.20 Leonard Okay. 21:05.31 Leonard Um, okay. 21:06.50 Dave Because he's discussing he keeps saying she but it's in capital like all the time and the unfortunately like the page is cut off on the screen so you can't and calling only read bits of it. But um, there's paragraphs specifically devoted to like pinhead and him. 21:10.31 Leonard Ah, all right. 21:23.72 Dave Ah, void talking about the cenobytes and um, what what he hopes to get from them because he's bored and he's crazy rich. 21:31.96 Leonard E. 21:39.80 Dave And he's had all of the he's tasted all of the pleasures of the world and he's world weary and he wants more and so ah, it turns out that he did the 6 sacrifices and summoned leviathan. 21:41.89 Leonard The right. 21:58.65 Dave And then made a wish you know or made you know he asked for a specific boon and so yeah, um, the the 6 boons you can get um, are you can ask for um, lament lament which is life the boon of life lore which is knowledge. 22:01.47 Leonard Yes. 22:17.60 Dave Lotrant which is love liminal sensation Lazarus Resurrection and then leviathan power so you can ask for 1 of those things he asks for sensation from like there. 22:26.70 Leonard Um, and he asked for sensation and man did he. 22:37.68 Dave Murder shark butchers like I don't just don't ah, he's watched 6 people get ripped apart. 22:46.12 Leonard Um, yes, but he also like describes them as Angels the synabites as Angels too. Yeah, yeah, and so ah was he we get. He was a get. He gets a. 22:49.92 Dave Oh yeah, no, he's like he's really waxing poetic on when they appear and stuff. 23:05.87 Leonard What about lock a string instrument inserted into yeah inserted into his sternum that ah. 23:09.50 Dave It's like a harp. Yeah. 23:14.42 Dave Yeah, it's not through his turnum. It's through his whole spine. It replaces his spine because it it pops through and restrings his nerves from his spinal cord into like um, ah it's not a a music box and it. 23:17.13 Leonard Yeah, yeah. 23:28.76 Leonard Yeah, that yes yes, um. 23:31.78 Dave It winds its its little wheel. Um I don't know every couple minutes and basically ah plucks his and his entire nervous system. Yeah. 23:38.33 Leonard Pulluls his nerves. Yep, it's really good. It's the only thing and like it's the only thing in the movie where I was like man that is actually conceptually awful like. 23:50.70 Dave Yeah, that's messed up. 23:53.81 Leonard Yeah, I'm just like out. That's the worst especially because there's a scene where he he's like trying to remove it so he's taking like a pair of like wire cutters and I'm like dude those are your nerves stop you I don't want to see. 24:10.30 Dave Yeah, he like clicked it and it was like who then he was going to he just passed out and he was flipping out because yeah, you can't just touch a bear with middle or anything. Really? Yeah yeah, it's real good. Um. 24:14.84 Leonard Yep. 24:21.60 Leonard Yep. 24:28.29 Dave Yeah, that's that's that's the plot. Um, they're trying to or rather um, she's trying to figure out what happened to her brother. Ah and and she's now seeing like the ghost of her brother and he's like bring me back from Hell you know and so. 24:42.72 Leonard Yes. 24:46.29 Dave She hears the ah or she's position here. She's told the um 6 configurations and like yeah you can wish for whatever if you're holding a thing. Otherwise we're going to take you because you you you. 25:02.37 Leonard Even though she hasn't That's the thing that drives me cut. That's the thing that kind of drives me nuts about this movie which is that she got away like she she just touched the box. She solved the puzzle but she didn't get stabbed. 25:02.75 Dave Been Jabbed by the knife. 25:18.55 Leonard And they're like yeah that doesn't work for us like now you need to find somebody to take your place and then like the mechanics are you have to get stabbed by this did she I guess I was missing that. Yeah no I guess I. 25:24.37 Dave Yeah, she got stabbed at one point. Yeah. 25:35.35 Dave You know she got stabbed. Um, um, the the she was like yeah I'm not going to play this game and I want to say pinhead just like looked at the little box and it popped and I felt I'm pretty sure. 25:44.90 Leonard Oh I must have I must have missed that. Yeah because I've I've watched this like 3 times at this point and that was the thing that what drove me nuts about it I'm like no no, you don't get to like dictate now she needs to find somebody else because the first time she solved it. She. 26:03.91 Dave Yeah, no, she she gets stabbed later when she said she wasn't going to do it. She's like how about I Just don't play and they're like yeah you can't stop in the middle of it. So it it popped of the the little blade out on its own. 26:03.91 Leonard She didn't get stabbed and that's okay. 26:19.20 Leonard You're right? Yeah yeah now I remember. 26:21.79 Dave Yeah, it's when they're on like on the little bridge or whatever like after the car crash thing. Yeah so ah, yeah, that's that's the plot there. She's trying to resurrect her brother. Um. 26:26.70 Leonard Yeah. 26:40.45 Leonard Yes. 26:40.48 Dave Initially and um has to come to terms with like his ultimate fate and what it means to have been sacrificed. 26:49.18 Leonard And and have been the cause for him to have been sacrificed like she comes right? like she has to at the at the end of the film. She comes to realization that. 26:54.76 Dave Yeah I mean she was playing with the box. It was her fault. 27:05.25 Leonard That nothing that the cynabites can give her will ever be what she actually wanted wants. It's always going to be a monkey pause situation. So she chooses nothing that which is lament. Yes. 27:16.80 Dave Um, which was the choice in itself. You don't get to choose nothing if yeah life and everlasting grief of and remorse for. 27:22.88 Leonard Ah, yeah, she chooses ah life. 27:30.65 Dave Understanding them and her actions like got a lot of people killed. 27:31.24 Leonard Right. 27:35.86 Dave Yeah, so yeah, that's that's the plot of the movie. Um, thematically this is not to me as strong as the first. 27:51.94 Leonard Um, okay. 27:53.76 Dave Hell razor So in the first hellrazer. Um, it's the same general setup. Someone's searching for ultimate pleasure and they find out that doesn't exist in not and brought from hell anyway. 28:12.27 Dave And and the the final girl. Um Kirsty in the first movie. Ah, she's moved in to um, her her dad her dad and step mom. 28:30.73 Leonard Yes. 28:31.87 Dave In a new house and it was um aren't anything. It was a new house. It was their um, her uncle's house for Uncle Frank yes and Frank was the last person that had been messing with the box and he got hell razer. Yeah. 28:37.80 Leonard Oh right right. 28:46.88 Leonard Trained Yeah, he got chained. 28:49.56 Dave He got he got blended um and her stepmom and dad ah are getting getting it on up in like the attic where Frank's room was. And yeah, um, her diet gets cut I think and the blood revite like so how it works is if you're messing with um one of the puzzle blocks doesn't that do specifically be a puzzle boxs. 29:11.19 Leonard Yes. 29:29.96 Dave Um, because Lamarshand and the guy that made the box he made like a bunch of things. He's a tomaker and they're all like cursed devices like on accident and if you get if you mess with one of the devices doesn't matter what it is. 29:30.22 Leonard Yes, yes. Yeah, yep. 29:46.87 Dave Um, you get visited by forces from Hell because it's It's not specifically always a antibie. There's other creatures other orders and um, you get pulled to hell and on that spot where you died. 29:54.62 Leonard Earth. 30:05.66 Dave Generally the boxes or whatever it is is still there like it does it. It can't be taken into Hell it's not supposed to it's supposed to only exist on Earth Um, but wherever you were pulled in it becomes a ah new gateway and if blood and presumably other. 30:12.15 Leonard Right. 30:25.18 Dave Bodily fluids if other fluids come in contact with that space. Um, you can be pulled back to Earth Sands like your skin you just that's how it works. It's like the terminator when you. 30:32.61 Leonard Yeah, yeah. 30:40.84 Dave Go back in time you have to be naked one this you just can have skin. 30:45.56 Leonard Um, yeahn, Yeah yes, you get your bones and your muscles back from no skin. 30:49.65 Dave No skin but you can you can get it back but you basically become a weird zombie vampire. You have to like consume people um to get your skin back on or you can wear a skin suit which is what happens with Frank Frank kills his brother and takes his skin. 30:54.90 Leonard Yes. 31:06.87 Dave And pretends to be um, Kirsty's dad um because he's he comes back because he wants to get it wrong with ah um I don't remember her name but the stepmother because they were already and they were in a ah relationship prior to her. Um. 31:10.81 Leonard Yep. 31:14.92 Leonard The stepmother. Yeah, be. 31:23.27 Leonard Yes, it's very fairy Taleish actually. 31:23.81 Dave Marrying his brother. Yeah, yeah, that's that's the the weird vibe of it. Um, but it's it's home. It's a very specific thing. So Kirsty. Um. 31:30.29 Leonard Um, yeah, yeah. 31:41.84 Leonard Discovers it. 31:42.14 Dave Stumbles. Yeah, she stumbles up on the box and uses it accidentally to summon the cenibitetes the senoites realized that she's like they're they're hunting Frank because he escaped. Yeah. 31:46.40 Leonard Um, yes. 31:53.24 Leonard He Well they're going to take her and then she's like hey yeah, she's like hey that there's a damn soul like in in this house I take him then. 32:00.16 Dave She makes a bargain. Yeah. 32:10.20 Leonard And pinheads like nobody's ever escaped from us. It's like no I've seen him and she's like he's like all right? Well we're going Trust you? But if you'd full us gonna get it. 32:19.34 Dave Yeah, you're going to. You're going to come with us. So. 32:23.58 Leonard That that famous pin headline If you have trick as you got to get it. 32:29.29 Dave Um, yeah, that's just that's how he do? Um, yeah so there's that bargaining like that's an option. Um, and there is a sense. 32:38.68 Leonard Um, yes. 32:47.40 Dave Of um. 32:55.33 Dave I Can't even like the word I want is not coming to my mind. Um, it's not really fairness. It's not the word. Um, um, moral like he has He has a specific set of morals. 33:09.25 Leonard Yes. 33:12.50 Dave And ah he was not going to welch on a deal kind of there's there's sometimes you know he's yeah, but in in so the cinetomites when they want to get something. 33:15.51 Leonard A except for when he does literally at the end of literally at the end of the movie. 33:32.55 Dave They're open to negotiation for like a little bit and generally they'll stick to it but I wouldn't place a bet on that. 33:33.41 Leonard Yes. 33:42.44 Leonard Um, yeah, yeah, they're not trustworthy. 33:51.92 Dave No, not really, but there. Um there is a sense. Yeah well and the things that they their compass is a little skewed. 33:54.96 Leonard They like presiding themselves as fair. 34:07.25 Leonard You write exactly. 34:10.94 Dave So they're divorced um specifically in in the lore. Ah, when you become a centabbyte you kind of shed your human self and you lose a lot of your memories on purpose like when they're created that's that's taken away. 34:24.26 Leonard Um. 34:28.32 Leonard Great. 34:30.90 Dave Um, because that makes them more efficient in what they're in in their jobs. Um of basically just going to collect whoever was messing with the puzzles. Um, so they might do a bargain or a deal and they'll probably hold to it. 34:38.81 Leonard Right. 34:50.85 Dave But you got to be real specific with them and you better have something like immediate which is weird because they have like infinite patients because they're basically immortal but they're on a time schedule. They're like on a crunch they got to get back. 34:56.45 Leonard Um, yes. 35:02.53 Leonard Yeah, yeah, there's there's a weird bureaucracy with the synabitetes in hell in the Lraiser series. 35:08.74 Dave Um, yeah I mean they're not um, they're beholden to the will of Hell. So The stuff they do in general is because they're like yeah um, they're. They're commanded to but it's not like always verbal commands. It's more like a force compelled.. That's what I wanted to say they are Compelled. Do do things or compelled to go pick up people like that's not really what they are. That's not what they're about. 35:40.24 Leonard Um, right. 35:43.38 Dave Like they have their own drives and their own lives in hell and but they're just stuck on this like this is just their day job. Um, yeah. 35:54.64 Leonard Its their brain. It's the it's the thing that they need to do. It's their function and we're we're going to get into it and ah because I think that's actually 1 of the aspects that I like most about. Ah, 2022? Um, is that it's less of a need to do something something or have an agenda of your own and only like fulfilling a function. 36:22.00 Dave Yeah, and um I didn't want to camp on the first one I was just like trying to trust some comparisons. So the things that are kind of happening in the original 1987 hellraiser that tone. Isn't in this one so when I when I pressed play and started watching this the opening segment. Um, ah it was in like budapest or belarus I don't remember where Belarus. Maybe. 36:39.54 Leonard Um e. 36:54.33 Leonard Um, yeah, um, yes, yes, wasn't it. Pilfest. 36:57.17 Dave Um, no Belfast no butp. But but Belfast so then le bee um in eastern europe. Ah so it's there. It's grungy. It looked to me like. 37:04.87 Leonard Yes. 37:16.75 Dave Um I wouldn't have even said contemporary even though that's what it is the feel and the film the cinematography of it like the mood that it was striking was giving me early 2000 fear dot com 37:19.92 Leonard A. 37:32.19 Leonard Really, that's interesting because I kind of liked so I liked that it was clearly supposed to be contemporary and yeah, they give us a location name at the beginning They don't for the rest of the film and a lot of the places look. 37:35.51 Dave Yeah. 37:51.41 Leonard Actually kind of the european even though we see as okay even though we see like ah a city skyline and it looks like contemporary like Canadian and american or maybe it wasn't um. 37:52.70 Dave Because it was filmed. It was filmed in Europe. 38:06.65 Leonard But I kind of it reminded me of the beginning like the frank backstory from the first one where it's like there's this really very? um oh it's when he's like getting the box and he's like in Vietnam because he was a soldier. 38:25.32 Dave Yeah, he was in in India. 38:26.67 Leonard And that's where he gets the box. Yeah, okay, yeah, and that's that's what that reminded me of when I saw and I was like oh that's kind of like a fun interesting nod to the first one like it's not explicit and I I certainly hope I don't see a frank in this I don't want this to be. Like a conceptual remake of the first one but I kind of like like far corners of the Earth somebody finds this box and something bad's going to happen from there. 38:58.00 Dave Yeah, so our our geography is terrible. It's in it was in Belgrade. Yeah it this will be not definitely not Belfast. Not even the same sorry um, ah begrade. 39:02.36 Leonard Um, yeah, okay, well yeah, right. 39:15.28 Dave But that's where they filmed it or at least their Principal photography. Um, so that part of it that look is what I wanted the film didn't like continue to do that. 39:16.99 Leonard Um, okay. 39:25.83 Leonard Um, okay. 39:32.72 Leonard A. 39:33.83 Dave Much? Um, but what it did do immediately there act so it was a weird um early 90 s pull like us. So when they're in the apartments. Um, and then they go to like the she's. She's chilling on like the little um merrygoround yeah at the park and there's little bathroom and her brother goes in the bathroom. So All of that was candy man to me like the original candy man I should make a clarification because there's the new One. Um. 39:54.59 Leonard Um, Mayor go around. Yeah yes. 40:05.90 Leonard Um, yeah, ah yeah yeah, ah right. 40:12.28 Dave So those are the vibes I was getting and then like it just kind of like didn't it dipped a toe in and then didn't really sit on that he didn't give me that vibe for like the movie. No. 40:18.92 Leonard For the entirety of the movie. Yeah yeah, because overall I think that this movie looks really good and is really well shot. But I do understand like the grit and grime from like that that. Bottle opening of of the box acquisition to like the candy man as she's taken the pills because she's just gotten kicked out of the apartment and the only thing she has is her stuff in a suitcase and the puzzle Box. Um, and and the merrygorounds. Sequence. Yeah I Do I do get that I guess I was kind of enamored with Wow this actually like is shot competently and lit competently and like looks like a good movie. Um, because I'm so used to Hell Razor films not looking like real movies at this point. 41:17.73 Dave Yeah, a lot of them were um well except for the fourth everything after the fourth one didn't get it theatrical release. They're just direct to video. Um, so yeah, this one the cinematography was really good when it's dark. It's it was. 41:21.38 Leonard No. 41:34.42 Leonard Um, oh okay. 41:34.91 Dave Too dark and I lost because I'm watching this on my phone So I like completely I couldn't see anything that was not night scene but like if it's a dark scene where there's not much on set lights like I couldn't I didn't know what was going on. 41:45.72 Leonard Um, a. 41:51.63 Dave Which unfortunately meant a lot of times when the cenoitetes showed up. It was very dark and I couldn't see them so I was like ah the other part that was the fun thing to do was look at them when I I I didn't get the I saw him'm like going to close up. 41:54.40 Leonard Yeah, right? and and they. 42:03.37 Leonard Right? And admittedly they are shot very like deliberately shot very dark, very like throughout most of the movie because it is right and and they're doing the the we we've got them here but we're not going to like give you too much detail. 42:13.67 Dave Well, they're they're backlit a lot. Um. 42:23.23 Leonard Slow trickle and until the finale where you get to see them all in their glory. 42:28.60 Dave I mean I'm fine with that like that was evocative. Um I will say that the hospital scene um mean not everything has to be it and I'm not saying that these are callbacks to movies but the feeling I got was like exorcist 3 in the hospital. 42:42.25 Leonard Oh yeah, no I could see it. 42:46.59 Dave So that's that's the things that I was like latching onto I I like the vibe they're doing with that and I wanted that to be more of the movie and I would say just on ah like my personal criticism of the film. 42:58.61 Leonard Um. 43:05.12 Dave And this I think maybe have to do with um the director's style and because it's stuff that pops up in um, the ritual ah and be because of the the not the production. Yeah, yeah, there's the production so because this came on hulu it's big Disney. Channel I cool this part of Disney so this was I'll back up slightly? Um, when you mentioned like hey let's watch hellraiser and I was like I'm on board but I have to. 43:26.44 Leonard Um, right. 43:36.34 Leonard Um. 43:44.26 Dave Ah I have to gear myself up to watch like graphic violence like I'm not always in the head space to go. That's what I want to watch on my day off or whatever. 43:56.80 Leonard What you're not already always ready to go and watch itchy the kill her day. 44:03.21 Dave Yeah I know you that's weird how you think but um, yeah, hellraiser sits in a weird zone for me like my because I watched that when I was little like it's a formative experience I guess. 44:15.97 Leonard Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 44:20.30 Dave Like it. It sits in a very specific head space like the fly and you know we we've did. We've talked about this before but this is episode 200 something so um I basically watched this when I was like a child. Ah I was. 44:22.46 Leonard Yes. 44:30.11 Leonard Um, it's Somebodyd's first yeah. 44:39.32 Leonard Yes. 44:39.53 Dave I don't know 9 8 or 9 watching hellraiser. Ah, and the the the goopy gore um was very much present in that movie. So in my head. 44:51.42 Leonard Um, yeah, ah right? um. 44:58.60 Dave Going forward for any of the other movies and particularly I think um the most egregious I guess of the ones that I so enjoyed watching was 3 because 3 just like really digs into the violence. Um with the nightclub scene and everything so that's where. 45:06.47 Leonard Yeah, has. 45:14.33 Leonard Um, yep. 45:18.40 Dave Hellraiser lives to me like that it sits in that. Um, so I had to go. Okay I have to be like in a space to watch people getting ripped apart by hooks like I you know? Okay, that's not not always like the thing I want um. 45:18.44 Leonard Are. 45:29.75 Leonard Um, yeah, ah right. 45:37.78 Dave And this movie doesn't do that It doesn't do that? Yeah, but it needs it? Yeah, but it didn't need to be. 45:39.87 Leonard No, it's cleaner and classier than like he it than Hell razor three It is a classier movie than Hell Raisor three? yes. 45:53.39 Dave Um, it's to its detriment. 45:56.42 Leonard I Kind of appreciate that it wasn't actually. 46:00.95 Dave Yeah I mean I I get that but the thing is one they used like Cg blood which is bad. That's never good. Um, you know we're about practical effects. We love practical effects. 46:08.41 Leonard Um, yeah. 46:14.31 Leonard Right? so. 46:18.22 Dave So the the the makeup and the C centnoitetes's all practical effects. That's great. Um, the gore parts the little bit that they didn't they oh well, there's a couple that are practical effects. But um. 46:30.73 Leonard All the hand knife stuff the all the puzzle but box like nice stab stuff. Looks like practical effects. 46:39.68 Dave Yeah, yeah, um, it's really just explosions people explosions. It's um, it's fake looking because it's Cg and but that's not even like that wasn't even the issue that I was backtracking to go get to so. 46:41.83 Leonard Um, oh yeah, yeah, yes, yes. 46:55.44 Leonard Um. 46:57.40 Dave Ah, what they don't do and in this movie they like to tell you and not show you and if you're if your tagline of your primary villain. 47:06.88 Leonard Um, yeah. 47:16.47 Dave Is I have such sights to show you and you then you don't show anything. It's like it's just a big letdown. So I can't say the film is chased but it feels that way especially like the middle. 47:25.55 Leonard Um. 47:33.77 Dave Like this wasn't like I was like oh it this just feels like hellraiser light. So so in in but in particular the 2 instances so when Riley's brother um is disappeared. 47:33.77 Leonard Um, yeah. 47:38.23 Leonard Um I as I. 47:48.91 Leonard Um, yes. 47:52.52 Dave He's just disappeared. You don't see what happens to him you you understand it I mean you you know because it's telegraphing it. But it's like it's kind of a letdown like I wanted to see something not. 48:08.65 Leonard Um, it's it it. It's it's interesting because like because he for me because like he's the catalyst of her story. He's these the princess in the castle that needs to be saved. 48:09.60 Dave Dot cut away and hear him screaming. Okay. 48:26.47 Leonard Um, even though she never gets there. Um, it feels like it would have been like really weird and exploited because I actually did think about this. Ah, after watching it the second time and I was like it would feel like really weird and exploitative if we watched this guy get ripped apart. For the sin of accidentally getting cut while trying to like make sure that his sister wasn't overdosing so I'm like in the position of like men I would have liked like you don't want to see it happen to a bad person. Ah which feels like me. Revisiting like the early two thousand s where every horror movie had to have a cast of like the most insufferable people ever so you could feel good about them getting murdered and I don't think I would felt good about Matt her brother getting murdered in this. 49:21.45 Dave Um, yeah I mean you're not supposed to um and that like I get your point it makes sense and I mean I thought about that too because she she doesn't see and because we're in her shoes. 49:23.33 Leonard Right. 49:26.67 Leonard Yes. 49:38.81 Dave Like it has to be left up to like maybe she can save him. It's something that you you need to work with the audience to like give them something. Um, but they do it again with the lawyer and I thought that I was I was more that was more upset with that happened I was like. 49:40.37 Leonard Right. 49:53.15 Leonard Um, oh yeah. 49:58.37 Dave Because then that set of precedents like that they just going to do that for everybody because that's real boring. 50:04.21 Leonard Honestly, that felt like that got that scene got cut short like it I think like they it like there's it feels like like that what because it is It is like. 50:08.70 Dave No, it may have I mean. 50:19.30 Leonard Basically nothing and then the cutaway. Ah yes, that's why I'm like oh I think that. 50:21.83 Dave Um, oh it's a big buildup too like it's like it spends like 3 minutes having her like having a breathing fit and then thinking she's getting away like sneaking a sneaking mission. 50:34.75 Leonard Yeah. 50:38.62 Dave And then that ain't happen and there's like there they've you know they made a she's boxed in and then it cuts like I This just makes you feel cheated. 50:43.43 Leonard Yes. 50:50.53 Leonard Yeah, like I will agree with you about the lawyer because once again watching it the second time I was like I'm oh most positive that there had to have been more for that sequence because that's like really nothing and they build it up to like a big like. And then she gets completely like blendered in the the silent hill version of the hospital that she's in. 51:17.11 Dave Yeah, so the the yeah the bigger issue to me was I mean I had to like talk myself up to go walk to the movie in the first place you know and then I'm like. 51:31.26 Leonard Um, ah. 51:34.73 Dave I'm all loins are girded and then it's just like no nothing's happening like this is the second one in a row where it didn't didn't show a violence that I'm expecting. 51:39.38 Leonard Yeah, yeah. 51:52.47 Dave Like I don't need it to happen. But you're trading on a on an entire franchise if that's what it does. That's like let's watch saw number 12 but aha they're not going to show anything you know and then and that you know this isn't. 51:58.10 Leonard Right. 52:05.86 Leonard Yeah, or are are hostile more more more appropriate to hellraiser. Ah a hostile sequel. 52:13.73 Dave Yeah, and again I'm not looking for like that torture porn. Um, but just going hey if you're rebooting this in the first you know couple all sort of neatly tied up bits of the series. 52:17.59 Leonard Right. 52:31.64 Dave You're not even giving us that much. It's like why? why did you make it like what's going on. 52:36.61 Leonard I have heard a lot of that too of like it feels really unnecessary and because it's not not ultra violent. It's not it. It isn't it doesn't trade in a lot of the stuff that people who know and would be excited for hellraisor trades and. Um, and I'm ah so I had it if I may for just a little bit I had a real interesting journey while watching this movie, especially for the second time which was realizing that the most interesting aspect of. Hellrazor is actually the least interesting aspect which are the cynabitetes because once again as they're presented in this film. They're just functions of of the system like that they don't have any motive other than. Doing the thing that they do which is they come to collect when somebody ah solves ah and solves the box and cuts themselves and that's it and I'm like but they're so interesting looking but there there's nothing there and I'm like is the only way to. Make this series a thing is to like limit it to six films and have it deal with like 1 aspect of the configure of the 6 configurations because I think that's like the like and as an anthology and and. 54:11.43 Leonard I Think that's the only way that it it works because yeah, the the synabitetes are visually striking but they're they're they're like they just they are reactive. Yeah, they're reactive to what the humans are doing in the narrative. 54:22.75 Dave They're just ciphers. They're not like yeah when it doesn't have to be like that's the that's the thing is like it can be anything as a sacrifice maybe just has to be a. Person but technically since to setabbytes where people they count because that's what it plays with. 54:40.78 Leonard Yep yep, and that's that's one the goofyiest bit of Cg core in the film. 54:48.72 Dave Yeah I Um I can get past the Cg stuff like that's it's fine on certain things like that that part was dark for me so I was like okay yeah it it conveyed what happened like that's whatever. 54:57.96 Leonard Be right. 55:05.89 Dave Um, yeah I think it just lost me when it had the lawyer like it just cut away I'm like what but but yeah, what now you did it twice. 55:10.68 Leonard Right? Oh you're just not going to show anything. 55:20.95 Dave Um, technically almost 3 times because it really didn't show the first dude. Oh I did want to well I'm not not going to camp on it. Um, when it went to the um, the sex mansion. 55:23.37 Leonard Yeah, yeah, he's. 55:38.96 Leonard Um, ah. 55:39.22 Dave It's the most like sedate and boring scene of the dude just kind of like walking through and you're going to This isn't even like a zany party This isn't even ice wide shut level. It's like. 55:47.67 Leonard Um, yes. 55:58.24 Dave I Don't know they're all on what's a xanax. What's what's the thing that makes you boring. Yeah I don't know. Um. 56:03.21 Leonard Ambien um, don't ask me why don't ask me why don't ask me why I know was Ambien but I do um. it it is it is a very chase they are once again very much in love with that and it's the problem that you mentioned which is telling like telling a he like he was a hedonist in me. Had weird sex parties and yeah, the first. The first thing that they show is him having like a very sedate like rich person party where he kind of tricks somebody into solving the final configuration. 56:45.91 Dave Yeah, like the sixth person he had like a list of the people that he did that to yeah, he just was picking people. Um. 56:50.67 Leonard Um, one of them was a gardener. 56:55.18 Leonard And I also love that that they're like because this is all comes up when when Riley's doing the internet search which is like he hasn't been seen for 6 years so he's presumed dead and I'm like no people if you're rich enough. You can just. Fall off the face of the um planet for 6 years like why? Why does anyone assume that he's dead. 57:23.67 Dave Um, yeah I don't um I don't know I Just like I was it opens with that scene pretty much and I'm just like but is this rated R This is boring I don't need crazy graphic stuff happening. 57:38.87 Leonard Right? But you needed to be as extreme as Hell razor has been previously. 57:41.10 Dave That's not not what I'm getting at really it's it's it's it's it's it's sedate. Yeah I mean just something like it's it felt like oh here's a rich guy's weird party and just like a wreck of the party. There's one little room in a corner when it like heat the the kid like walked past and was like oh sexy room but it's like you. Okay I guess it was point 5 second of sexy room. 58:10.64 Leonard Um, all right. 58:20.42 Dave Like show me that this guy is a hedonist like that. That's what I want like don't just tell me. Yeah I just wanted the movie to show me. They show me the sights show me something because it's not is telling me a lot of stuff. 58:23.19 Leonard Right? That's how you you write? That's how you need to get the point Across. Right. 58:37.94 Dave And so that's where it falls apart from me that being said I enjoyed um all of the performances. Ah by the cynabites like they all did a very good job in in doing their job. 58:40.24 Leonard Are. 58:46.57 Leonard Um, yes, yes, um, love the new chatter or design like all the designs are fantastic. Yeah. 58:56.89 Dave And then yeah, um, Asph fix is like real messed up and the weeper and um I don't know what the one with the opened head is. 59:11.88 Leonard Though the the gasp. 59:16.34 Dave Yeah, yeah, yes, yeah, the gasp So the gas like is well the weeper got a couple off the gas got the most like lines and did a great job. 59:27.71 Leonard Um, yes. 59:35.60 Dave And I think that that's what I liked was that they were able to engage with more than one centibyte. It's not just pinhead like delivering all the lines. 59:42.30 Leonard Um, yeah, yeah there it's It's a. It delegates work delegates work to it doesn't have to be there all the time. The the gasp is the middle manager of this by for. 59:59.12 Dave Yeah, so I will say the one part that I thought that they delivered on what I was expecting for the movie um was with Nora and specifically when pinette is like. 01:00:09.20 Leonard Um, yes. 01:00:16.43 Dave Um, it's like I don't know the music of hell or something is whatever we want or something and then just and pokes the neck and it goes and changes like the vocal chord think like that was really well done. 01:00:24.66 Leonard Dalia. 01:00:28.34 Leonard Um, yes, yes, yeah, it is the it is the most hell rasrie thing in hell razor 2022 more 01:00:40.63 Dave I was expecting that stuff like more and then I'm going. Well you show me the 1 thing but you don't have enough people left. There's not enough ah sacrifices to to continue this and then they definitely didn't. 01:00:46.69 Leonard Right. And and and also like it's also used on the character that has the least characterization in the film for for a kill count right? It is. 01:01:01.88 Dave Yeah Nora just was there for this. Yeah and that's kind of messed up um, didn't give you anything else. The brother just was angry and then disappeared nay I mean. 01:01:11.93 Leonard And not even not even angry like reasonable like hey I'm yeah, it's It's just like no like the the boyfriend who we surprise Surprise surprise. 01:01:18.49 Dave Yeah, yeah. 01:01:26.93 Leonard Ah, was working for void the entire time because that wasn't super obvious um like that wasn't a surprise that's supposed to be a big twist and I'm like yeah yeah, exactly And so. 01:01:37.59 Dave Um, yeah, and he was a he was a tool. So yeah, and then the yeah. 01:01:43.47 Leonard Like he's the only one you're happy to see die while him envoy but like everybody else and there's there's it like if so there's always been like this very love crafty adjacent thing to for me and hell razor which is like. You know the cynabites they do their jobs. They're unfeeling. They're uncaring that they they it's It's once again, they're just functions of this like Universal truth which is Leviathan and that pleasure is pain and vice versa. And yeah. 01:02:21.76 Leonard It's just but that's it. That's all that they've got going for them So you've got to have people drive the narrative. 01:02:32.37 Dave Unless you get to sit in camp with like what they do in hell which happens in the comics so we will discuss it at a later point because that like is far more interesting that has you know. 01:02:36.84 Leonard Right now. Oh all right? you right. 01:02:51.30 Dave Levels of bureaucracy and back stabbing and double dealing and you know it's just fun because they get to talk and they all talk and they they I have lives outside of this job. Yeah, yeah. 01:02:55.10 Leonard Okay, so that they there. Yeah, they're given person ripe personalities outside of the collecting. 01:03:10.53 Dave It's not like not all of them you know, but there's some given to some of them. Um, and it makes them stronger as characters because this is just a one-off, You's like oh okay, you're weird looking and that looks like it hurts and so you. 01:03:11.81 Leonard Great. 01:03:19.64 Leonard Um, a. 01:03:29.72 Dave Explore the furthest reach I did like pinhead um pinhead's um, actress was like great, totally selling it and um, yeah, just her. 01:03:37.51 Leonard Yes. 01:03:48.74 Dave Discussions with void were were fantastic. 01:03:54.33 Leonard Um, I do really I Also just want to point out like 1 of the like very minor aesthetic changes which is I kind of really adore the use of the pearl tipped. Pins for all the cynibitetes in in in this one like to just soften the harshness of like the mutilating the bodily mutilations. 01:04:11.33 Dave Yeah, yeah. 01:04:22.97 Dave Yeah, um, there was something on there on the the makeup. Um, that was maybe because it looked like it was latex so that took me out of a little bit but that's the thing with the um. 01:04:35.47 Leonard Ah. 01:04:40.92 Dave The original first few films because they're in like Pseudo bondage gear. It's covering more of the body. So the the bits that they're like mutilated is stands out more and that they did they. It's. 01:04:46.84 Leonard Write. 01:04:57.98 Leonard Right. 01:04:58.49 Dave Leaking blood and things it. It looks more fresh. This is like happened a long time ago and they just look like this now. So I I don't know if I like that aesthetic as much like it's not as affecting it's It's again, it's like. 01:05:06.55 Leonard Um, right. 01:05:12.69 Leonard Um. 01:05:16.30 Dave Not that it's chased. This is definitely not that. But it's um, it's It's kind of healed. 01:05:23.18 Leonard Yeah, it's going like it. It feels like it's and once again, it's weird because it's a hell raise a movie. It feels like it's going less for shock with a lot of the the things like the violence. 01:05:35.92 Dave Yeah, it's trying to do like conceptual heavy handedness and not like visually, but that's weird because it's a movie and it needs to be more visual. 01:05:40.76 Leonard Yes, be right? but I do but I did really like like I did really like the kind of like molding and twisting like there's an there's an aspect especially with. With pinhead and and their um their mutilations where it feels like um when somebody does the braiding with a Bonsai tree. 01:06:14.67 Dave Um, yeah, it's it's all, um, artfully grotesque. It's it's done with a purpose in mind. It's not just like random. So it's it's symmetrical. 01:06:19.60 Leonard Yes. 01:06:27.24 Leonard Um, yes, sir. 01:06:30.77 Dave Also um, and that's something we get like ah where we are granted eyes and get to see exactly how that all kind of works at the end of the movie. Um. 01:06:41.91 Leonard Um. 01:06:47.90 Leonard Um, that yeah. 01:06:49.14 Dave Yeah, so that's my and the same thing like that's the same issue that happens at the end of the movie is that it's bloodless and that's the problem visually. 01:07:03.10 Leonard Um, yeah, it is. Yeah yeah. 01:07:06.90 Dave Um, and so that's what's weird and I mean I guess technically they're dead I don't It's just it's it's not as strong like the design is ah again, it's well done. Like they're very cool looking um but because of that they're not scary I mean you wouldn't want to see them in like real life that would be horrifying but in in the movie vision like as ah as an audience member. 01:07:27.21 Leonard Ah. 01:07:31.82 Leonard Um, right are. 01:07:45.70 Leonard Um, and. 01:07:46.30 Dave They're just it's not as frightening The whole movie is not scary like it's not eliciting like a fear response when I watch this movie. 01:07:49.23 Leonard No yes I will agree with you. I will agree with you on that one and and so and I felt that watching it the the times that I watched it and there was a part of me where I'm like well I'm also seeing like all of this weird cross-pollination between it and the second. Film because it's hitting like so many toe like hitting so many plot points ah between the first and second hellrazer and kind of condensing them for me. What was like a really satisfying way because I think those are the 2 strongest films like. As horror films like once again threes like bloody gore fest and gross. Ah, but I like 1 and 2 as like a complete story. Arc. 01:08:49.92 Dave Yeah, and it's something that so in this film Riley Grows as a person and that's important because you need character growth in like at least your your protagonist. Ah. 01:08:53.79 Leonard Um, yes. 01:09:03.96 Dave Be great if it was in some other people do, but they didn't have enough character to grow. Um, even the boyfriend just was like a one off. He's just a dude. He's a dude and he's there to I don't yeah he isn't He's not really helping. 01:09:05.21 Leonard Um, you were right right? Yeah yes. 01:09:13.84 Leonard Be concerned, No not really yeah me. 01:09:21.59 Dave And get to do much of anything other than get hurt. Um, he has valid points and he's like yeah I told you to they just come back inside would have changed a lot of things. Um and he seemed like a good guy. 01:09:38.37 Leonard Yeah. 01:09:40.70 Dave Like and that's the same thing with like her brother Matt like the the the dynamics in that relationship um were they weren't tenable I mean she's self-destructive. Ah, but that's not like an irredeemable thing like she's trying. 01:09:52.90 Leonard Great. Yeah, yes, they're all they're all weirdly stock um like Eli she once again troubled troubled. Ah. 01:09:59.74 Dave It's just hard. Yeah. 01:10:09.24 Leonard Troubled person in recovery ah loving brother that is tired of her nonsense. Um Nonpersonality Boyfriend Nonpersonality Roommate betraying Love interest for main character. They're all and crazy billionaire heatonist. Um, they're all very very stock characters. 01:10:31.64 Dave Yeah, she reminded me of Luke from hunting on hill house. 01:10:36.79 Leonard Oh yeah, now. Yeah I get that even then I think Luke still what once again, it's a movie versus a mini series. So like yeah Luke. 01:10:42.99 Dave Well, you had more time with Luke and yeah, so like Kirsty in 1 and 2 primarily and Riley. She she gets her arc she learns a very valuable life lesson at the expense of several people and but she doesn't she doesn't end the movie the way she starts you know and she is of course. 01:11:08.42 Leonard Yes. 01:11:21.14 Dave And un purposefully chosen the lament configuration because ass you get to live you just have to live with whatever you've done. Yeah and and. 01:11:26.70 Leonard Um, yes, right? All of that regret. That's the Monkeys bar. 01:11:38.80 Dave Ah, yeah I mean that's the monkeys pob but I think out of we just have to guess because we've only seen 2 ah technically 3 of the 6 that's the probably the only one that you should ever pick. 01:11:43.53 Leonard Um, agree. 01:11:53.35 Leonard Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the that's the that's the hey German decided said hey I'm going to kill you and you'll forget the tree but. 01:12:06.69 Dave Um, yeah, so yeah I like that they at least did her that way. Yeah, like that's that was satisfying. 01:12:17.66 Leonard Yes. 01:12:24.14 Dave As far as like her character was concerned um that she had to just let learn to let go because because there's yeah except like there's some things that are beyond her control which is hard because she's been addicted to drugs and. 01:12:30.49 Leonard Yet and accept. 01:12:42.88 Dave And alcohol and all you know, various tough things for she's like 20 years old maybe and um, it's well yes, it's of course forsstead fortunate this is a terrible situation. Um. 01:12:47.60 Leonard Right. 01:13:00.85 Dave But it was things that are like outside of her control like she had no control in any of it and the only control she had was to say I'm stepping away from it which is basically the thing that she says when she's trying to do the 12 step program. 01:13:11.96 Leonard Um, yeah. 01:13:16.57 Leonard Right. 01:13:20.65 Dave Like that's just it's it's's it's making that they're both literal things. 1 isn't a metaphor for the other. But um, they parallel this is just I think a little bit more serious not to be little. Anyone's addictions but um, like this had this the stakes in this are like other people's lives. 01:13:27.60 Leonard The. 01:13:32.60 Leonard Oh yeah, absolutely. 01:13:40.16 Dave Like very visibly and she didn't have a hand in that either like it's it's it's all accidental except for when she on purpose step somebody with the the box. Yeah um. 01:13:52.73 Leonard Right? okay. 01:13:58.82 Dave And that's the thing I wish that there was more space to like give the others some more characterization rather than just have them be like body count and I'm glad that the boyfriend and like left with her because that would have been like I wouldn't I would have been really upset. 01:14:05.16 Leonard E. 01:14:10.94 Leonard Yes, yes. 01:14:17.76 Dave This is the few one of the times where it's like oh I don't like when it's just 1 survivor in this kind of film sometimes it's like okay yeah, that's a triumph but in this, it's like no just would have been really mean. 01:14:25.86 Leonard Ah. 01:14:30.94 Leonard Get especially with the revelation of her boyfriend was in on it the entire time. 01:14:39.20 Dave Yeah, yeah I mean it had to kind of go down that way I will say that the Cg for the weird loop um razor wire things was cool so I did I did like that because I wouldn't I didn't even know how you would. 01:14:50.67 Leonard Um, yeah, yes. 01:14:56.77 Dave Do that otherwise but that was neat of the weird Cg stuff. 01:15:02.12 Leonard Yeah, so what? I I think I liked it more than you did. But even then I can say that I liked it because it once again, it's a really It's predicated. Purely on on my experience with the first two films and like them taking what I considered like the best and most interesting aspects of the first two films and combining them into one. Because like the last thing I'd I want to see is is a hell razor to and it is literally Riley's like trying to go like has decided no I want I want Matt back and then tries to go into hell and recover him like. Like the original hell razor to like that would drive me up the wall I I just like if they're going to continue this I would leave her out that right I want like anthology films where it's centered around one of the configurations like somebod's. 01:16:02.89 Dave And leave her out of it like her story's done. Yeah. 01:16:16.26 Leonard Goal to claim the prize of whatever configuration and then go from there. 01:16:23.45 Dave Um, yeah I don't I don't um, yeah and I mean the actress is good like this the the character Riley is fine. Um, but it's like this was her story and it's over like I don't. 01:16:31.90 Leonard Right? Yeah, exactly. 01:16:39.20 Dave Don't see what could be gained from her like she's not going to learn anything else like this about as ultimate of a lesson you could learn and I think that's just that's written. It's done. Um. 01:16:46.84 Leonard Ah. 01:16:54.69 Dave Yeah, so the other thing I didn't mean to say is I Um I loved all of the if you're going to do Cg the way they did all the doorways and stuff is really good I Loved when like oh it's it's it popped out of the ground. It's you know. 01:17:04.31 Leonard Yes. 01:17:11.49 Dave The idea that um when the doorways appear you're pulled into like a little pocket hell dimension and um, that was like the most I liked it in the little hospital because that was fun and spooky. 01:17:16.00 Leonard Yes, absolutely. Um, yeah. 01:17:26.99 Dave Like ah of this of the parts that may have been scary that was like kind of the only one um and then once it got going I was like never mindd. It's not scary, but um it it had potential. Um, but when Nora is in the the van and it just like extends. It's. 01:17:29.72 Leonard Are right. 01:17:45.79 Leonard Ban. Yeah yeah, it's of the out. It's a really, It's a yeah, it's a um like it is it that like feels like an actual silent Hill transition. Honestly. 01:17:46.45 Dave So good. 01:17:57.15 Dave Yeah, and then her her friends just like not knowing that she got spirited away so messed up. 01:18:04.97 Leonard Ah, right? Yeah, yeah, it's really yeah, that stuff is is really good and once again really evocative of of Hell razor two where the wall would just open up and then you walk through ah stone hallway and you're an l. 01:18:09.35 Dave Yeah now. Yeah. 01:18:22.13 Leonard And there's leviathan spinning around above you. 01:18:24.14 Dave Um, yeah, yeah, that and then the engineer roll one around and then in the passages trying to engineer you Yeah, that's good stuff I liked I liked those bits and so I was missing that. Um. 01:18:33.60 Leonard Yep. 01:18:40.54 Leonard Um, ah. 01:18:41.80 Dave And it delivered with the like the scene with Nora and then in the hospital when it was just like though you could just see the wall. It is called so good. Um, so I like them showing that there's like another dimension beyond. Ah. 01:18:47.56 Leonard Yeah. 01:18:54.40 Leonard That they can just willingly overlay and like so sweep you up into it. 01:19:01.22 Dave Yeah, and I do like when Leviathan was summoned that was a lot of fun that was a really good set piece. 01:19:05.38 Leonard Yes, especially because it it. It's altering the terrain on like such a massive step scale just by being there like it creates like it basically turns the entire area. Into like the weird hell labyrinth when it's summoned. 01:19:28.36 Dave Yeah, it it like created I think there was a hedge maze there maybe but it just made it Huge um I think my other thing to pick with the movie is that um void. 01:19:34.33 Leonard Guess. 01:19:45.95 Dave Created and the the the lattice work that like sealed this house I don't always want an explanation but I did want one for that because why is that stopping the setup by it's. 01:19:48.67 Leonard The s. 01:20:02.68 Dave Maybe if it was like all they had to do was show something inscribed upon it because the design's not intricate enough to go a's mimicking the box like you get you get like an idea of that. But it's not. It's just like I've seen that's just the regular shapes. 01:20:11.69 Leonard You're right. 01:20:19.65 Dave So like why can't Why are they stopped if they can just warp through they can grab you out of a van that's has metal like I don't understand. 01:20:26.28 Leonard He Oh It's just some esoteric nonsense that he figured out through all of his debauchery and and and you know nonsense search For. Infinite pleasure. But no I do understand like I'm I'm joking. Yeah, the fact that that isn't exploit right? Yeah right? ah. 01:20:48.47 Dave Yeah, yeah, no I'm I'm just saying like that was not satisfying at all I'm like Wow it's stopping them. But it's just metal be like yeah the steel stops them. They can't get through. 01:21:00.72 Leonard Also like what is what like?? What's the point to because that that kind of also assumes like they're still coming after him for some reason even though he was the victor and got the prize. So Why would he even need to build a latticework to protect himself. From them. 01:21:19.47 Dave Um, well I think originally he built it so when he kept doing the sacrifices. He was sorry safe. 01:21:23.94 Leonard Oh right? But he but but then he built it around the entire mansion at some point because they show a photo of the mansion before and it doesn't have it surrounding it and that and I. I Don't know if we get an establishing sought outside of the mansion at the very beginning and I don't think it had it then either? oh it just it. Oh okay, oh yeah, Okay, in that case, Yeah,, that's. 01:21:48.31 Dave No I think it when you flip a switch I think it unfolds around the house. Yeah, it's not always there. 01:21:58.33 Leonard Okay, because I was just like under the impression like that he had put it up at some point during the six years that he disappeared and not like he flips a switch and it turns into a transformer. 01:22:11.59 Dave I mean maybe because he his whole thing is he's trying to Resummon Leviathan so he may have built that in order to try to get more sacrifices to keep them at bay while he stole the box again. 01:22:16.10 Leonard Right. 01:22:28.82 Leonard Now Yeah, right. 01:22:31.90 Dave Because he has to still be holding the box is the problem for him and the fact that he can't like move. He can't move good. Um and he lives like the castle freak in the walls of the mansion. That's still good. 01:22:37.67 Leonard Yeah. 01:22:43.40 Leonard He does live in the walls I Really wish that they had actually kind of played with that a little more too and like and me. 01:22:51.82 Dave They didn't yeah it was a little and unsatisfying because that was a part I that it was real dark when Nora was in the ah the hallway the the wall like I couldn't see what was happening. 01:22:58.30 Leonard Yeah, the crawl spaces. Yeah yeah, like if if he had like built this place as like a weird like easier access version of the puzzle box like oh kind of like. 01:23:12.50 Dave I would have been cool. 01:23:15.45 Leonard Like kind of ah um, we were talking about this ah 13 ghosts where it was like a weird shifting house thing. 01:23:18.21 Dave Yeah, yeah, but that but that would have been a budget I identity they don't take that they had their set pieces of the house is just really that in central room. 01:23:27.64 Leonard Yeah, they they didn't they they I mean the the interiors of the matchsions. Yeah, and then the little sidebar area where even though there was some sort of investigation into his whereabouts. There's still um, dust covered. Dimware as if the feds broke it in on a Gen joint party in the 20 s. 01:23:51.37 Dave Yeah, it was. It was a little silly. Oh and the piped in music was so bad. 01:23:55.70 Leonard That was the only that was the only thing that I was just like a man I Really wish that they hadn't invested in this trope of like oh man, the bomb went off and everybody died but it spared the furniture and the stip where. 01:24:14.57 Dave Um, yeah. 01:24:18.21 Leonard Um, yeah I think that's it about Health Racer twenty to oh well, no, that isn't it because we we should ah tell everybody what cameron thought of the film. 01:24:31.23 Dave Um, we yeah we do have that and then we also needed to say that? Yes, um, ah Void did get his wish and pinhead is I Guess hell it is very they're like we can't take gifts back. We'd exchange them. 01:24:37.83 Leonard Right. 01:24:48.87 Dave But just swap you another one and that was that was a fun scene if you're going to do fun Cg like that collapsing machine like falling out of him and then him healing up was. 01:24:50.66 Leonard Yep. 01:24:56.56 Leonard Yeah, yeah, yes, only only to get immediately giganto scorpion spear through the exact same spot. Yep. 01:25:08.41 Dave Yeah, and then and then seby did. 01:25:15.12 Leonard Hey guess what? That's what what power gets you. It gets you turned into a centibody. 01:25:20.24 Dave Yeah, because all their power is through um agony that yeah so here are I will read out Cameron's thoughts 01:25:24.10 Leonard Yes. 01:25:37.72 Dave Overall impressions I Really really enjoyed this movie. It's a solid horror film with believably flawed characters I Love that the senoitetes remained Alien but not actively malicious for most of the part. They just no longer understand the wants and needs of mortal humans and see the suffering they inflict as gifts. In particular near the end when the priest learned that Void was unhappy with his choice of the liminal gift they were more than happy to exchange it for a different gift but could not leave him without a reward for solving the puzzle box. Yep yep, that's that's on point our last bit of to do. Ah, the cynabite designs. These are all Fantastic. A lot of them really lean into a more silent he aesthetic taking the original hell raids or Bes bdsm feel and twisting it with some extra body horror asphfix and gasp are really disturbing in both their overall design sound effects and movement. Chatterer's new design is very cool and still feels appropriately menacing. The new pinhead is more reserved and feels more calculating as if they are more distant. Yeah yeah I would agree with all all that. 01:26:43.85 Leonard Um, yeah. 01:26:44.10 Dave Um, in comparison the original pinhead feels like he aims for complete shock horror most of the time and is more in much more in your face to to to scroll but and the kills there's some brutal stuff here the needle through the voice box for Nora. Um. 01:26:49.53 Leonard Yes. 01:27:02.90 Dave Feels incredibly violating and there's plenty of Impalings bites and skin degloving to go around real nazi stuff but very well done. Ah yeah, um, it's all it's all there I Wish there was more of it because it just they they loaded it up for the back half but then forgot. 01:27:13.52 Leonard Yes. 01:27:21.93 Dave That they were also killing people in the middle. Yeah I am well you watched it like 3 times and that clearly like has formed what what this movie is for you I like. 01:27:26.24 Leonard Um. 01:27:40.68 Dave The the extra world building they're doing with like the different configurations and then you get ultimate prize and that's fun. That's something that's something a little different. Um. 01:27:45.21 Leonard Ah. 01:27:51.60 Leonard Um, yes. 01:27:54.16 Dave And that definitely wasn't what I was expecting when they had the first sacrificial little dude. Um, ah when void's like yeah solve it so in in previous films when you're when you're messing with the. 01:28:02.88 Leonard Yes. 01:28:12.41 Dave Um, Lamarsh andbox you can like do it wrong and it just like Jacks you up. Ah and you have to go through all the convigurations to like it opens like different gateways and things like when you're messing with it. 01:28:14.17 Leonard Um, but yeah, yeah, yes. 01:28:30.11 Leonard Ah. 01:28:31.00 Dave So this one doesn't do that it stops at each state you you you solve a so you solve it for a puzzle like you solve for a form of it then whatever the next form is so it has to look a specific way and then. 01:28:36.76 Leonard Yes. 01:28:45.75 Leonard Right. 01:28:49.87 Dave The dagger comes out and if if you manage to not get nicked by it. Um, that just makes the ennoytes angry. 01:29:00.90 Leonard Um, it's yet sure does. 01:29:02.27 Dave Yeah, like they're you you somehow? avoid that Blade was meant for you and you avoided it and now we're just mad. Um, so go stick something with it or trip on it or something if it feels like they would just make it cut you. 01:29:07.93 Leonard Um, yeah. 01:29:17.30 Leonard Um, yeah. 01:29:20.77 Dave If you just like let it go for too long. 01:29:25.21 Leonard Yeah, it yeah it would I think that I think the the hey you you miss getting nicked but you still like a sacrifice still needs to be made um is like very ringy like you got. 01:29:36.79 Dave Like yeah I mean it it literally summoned her brother so it it will pull somebody from nearby. 01:29:40.75 Leonard The yes. 01:29:51.25 Dave Because they got to have that in blood sacrifice because it that they'll boxes each transformation or your your wish your boon granted by a leviathan at the end when it gets to the sixth configuration is powered by like the blood and souls of the sacrifices before. So. 01:30:09.99 Leonard You're right. 01:30:10.22 Dave It It literally like it. It did a um prince of darkness like shooting the goo into the ceiling. Yeah to summon. Um this this space devil So there you go This movie is a lot of other movies. Um. 01:30:18.82 Leonard Um, she yes Yes, yes, it did. 01:30:28.95 Dave Rolled into one and I don't think it pooled like the best parts of those films. Yeah, however, it's a fun entry into the overall mythology. Um, it's It's re. 01:30:34.59 Leonard You're right. 01:30:47.61 Dave Starting it So this is it like a it's It's a branching a branching hell like this is another hell dimension. You know like alternate Universe pinhead. 01:30:58.43 Leonard yeah yeah I mean once again I've I've stated my thoughts on like if you're going to follow this movie up. This is what I'd like to see and which once again you know I don't. Think we need 6 more or five more films after this but like 3 of them right? Yeah, oh yeah, that's true, 1 show show off the oh yeah, that would actually be kind of interest. 01:31:18.17 Dave Well, you wouldn't have to do that many because they showed off like 3 endings already. You can just do a second movie. Just keep it a neat you know, two films. 01:31:34.26 Leonard Interesting that like do do it as a sql as an end thought like a multipart anthology thing with different characters and different segments about the remaining configurations. 01:31:50.62 Dave Yeah I would even um because of how this movie handled everything I would like watch an animated one not not not not a cg but like if they drew 1 or at least you know did it like did you paint or something. 01:31:59.76 Leonard Um, ah yeah, right. 01:32:05.17 Leonard E. 01:32:07.54 Dave I would watch that you could like do a lot because you're not reliant on physical effects and you can just that that medium I think might handle what this is doing more better. 01:32:21.31 Leonard Oh yeah, the the the the clown door that that the series requires. 01:32:27.16 Dave Yeah, just a way that well the way that this incarnation of it is kind of like dealing with the gorse section of it. It's it's it's more sedate and they're like oh we have 1 impactful piece. Um. 01:32:37.43 Leonard Right. 01:32:44.94 Dave So this is a case of where I definitely would want to see like and and I know that this went through a bunch of rewrites I would like to see the script on this one like the the not the shooting script like the whatever they initially did for this incarnation of it and then see like what. 01:32:51.41 Leonard Go. Ah. 01:32:58.55 Leonard A. 01:33:02.98 Dave They actually ended up doing like with where yeah we we see what they actually ended up doing with them. But you know I mean the um the what they had planned out for the characters and if there was like scripted death scenes for the lawyer. Um I just I understand with like the brother. 01:33:07.80 Leonard Right. 01:33:21.77 Leonard Right. 01:33:22.55 Dave Like that makes sense doesn't specifically works a little better if you don't see it as far as like understanding. So um, we'll we'll wrap up in a second but the 1 thing I did want to address was if this is someone's first foray into. Series like if this is their first hellraiser movie. It's it's having to address that like that issue of there being a bunch of other movies. But they're also pretty old at this point and most of them are not not great. Yeah, so. 01:33:50.60 Leonard Um, and most of them are bad. 01:33:59.20 Dave The the general audience for this is probably they probably weren't alive when the first like 3 movies came out so with that in mind like I'm trying to think of the general like. 01:34:07.64 Leonard The yeah. Ah, yeah. 01:34:15.62 Dave I Don't even think that this is I think this is younger than the paranormal activity generation and I'm trying to think of what other? Um, what's ah like the Vhs series is more violent than this. 01:34:19.72 Leonard Oh yeah. 01:34:28.73 Leonard Yes, oh yeah, right. 01:34:35.37 Dave And I mean that's depending on like the segment of the anthology. But it's that it's the same. It's It's a that's what we're working with like that's what pops up on like shutter and things. 01:34:47.28 Leonard I mean at the very least I would say if you like this. Ah, if you like ah 2022 um maybe look into watching the first. Maybe the third one if you're. 01:35:03.36 Dave Um, go watch the first 2 movies. It's it's one story I mean. 01:35:03.57 Leonard Down with the vibe right? Um, and maybe the third if you're down with its very nicebes vibe which once again, yeah. 01:35:15.52 Dave Um, yeah, you like Cds like they got see these kids. 01:35:20.18 Leonard Yeah, you like cameras you like? yeah um and that one yeah that that movie like the more I think about it because I really liked 3 when I was a dumb baby child when I was watching it right. 01:35:29.62 Dave Oh yeah, no I watched that one the most. 01:35:34.10 Leonard And I'm like oh man, it's so but's so cool. It's a weird and gory and now I'm just like man This is the most ninety s nonsense I've ever seen and it does not help this movie a lot. 01:35:51.33 Dave Yeah, um, it doesn't I still like it I still like 3 but 2 is my favorite because that gets into the weird like oh you can open hell gateways and there's weird stuff in there. Um. 01:35:52.61 Leonard Um, yes, yes, yes. 01:36:06.21 Dave And you get to see it like the giant maze and Leviathan and not know what it is like there's no, there's just like that's that's leviathan. It's like there's freaking diamond rotating in the it's like what is it? What is that? Um, but. 01:36:08.28 Leonard To yep. 01:36:19.58 Leonard Um, that's the God of Hell that's unthinked thinking and uncaring. 01:36:23.88 Dave Yeah, and so before all the other stuff. Yeah, you have no context for it because there's no other media. There's nothing else to pull from at the time and I still like to like go back to that and then look at it and go Okay I don't. 01:36:32.81 Leonard Um, right. 01:36:38.89 Leonard Um, yeah. 01:36:42.43 Dave I don't need all this stuff that came afterwards like I just what I just watch these two and it's like such good movies. Yeah yeah, ah all right send us home Leonard send us back on on undo the box. 01:36:45.46 Leonard Um, yeah, right? Yeah, absolutely. 01:36:55.19 Leonard Oh that there is no one doing this movie. What we can't yeah you could only do all the do all of the work you did and then trade for something equally as awful. 01:37:01.28 Dave Oh yeah, that's right, you can't We can't take it back. We you can only go to the next step. 01:37:13.56 Dave It was like what's the line. It was like you can't you can't undo your your journey or whatever. It's like you can only go further. 01:37:14.94 Leonard Um, so. 01:37:21.61 Leonard Right? right? Um, yeah, so we'll go for her by closing this out. Ah Dave where can people find you who want the internet. 01:37:34.28 Dave You can find me on Twitter at senting on underscore plus you can find the podcast um on Twitter as well. We don't it just kind ofnounce stuff in advance. There's not like magical things that are on that Twitter there could be if you want like let us know tell us your wish um wish master ah it's I had mon underscorre d monster and cameron you can find also on Twitter at night underscore twi and that's night without a k and Leonard how about yourself. 01:38:03.22 Leonard Yes, people could find me online at on Twitter at Dr Faust is dead. People can also find my work on Youtube by searching at Dr Faust is dead. And I think with that we are going to call this episode. Thank you for joining us as always and ah we hope that you join us again for whatever we cover next time. 01:38:31.30 Dave We will see you then Bye Bye folks. 01:38:35.89 Leonard Goodbye.