Cameron I'm your host for this episode cameron and today's an extra special episode over in the United States of America it's Thanksgiving weekend. So our dear regular co-hosts Dave and Leonard are both incredibly busy with their personal lives. And in Dave's case also a big shipping container of sporting equipment. So instead I'm joined live in the studio. This is a pre-recorded. You know again, this broadcast live live in the studio with close personal friend and biggest nerd I know Sam Sam how you do it. 02:54.48 Sam So I'm doing extremely well cameron. Thank you for the wonderful introduction. 03:00.45 Cameron Um, thank you for coming I I got to Thursday went wait I said I'd organize someone on my end to do this episode I went who do I know he'll be quick about this. It'll be sam. Ah yeah, so welcome to the show lovely to have you? um. 03:04.52 Sam Organize someone online to the zeppelar I would who do I know. 03:14.67 Cameron Tell us a little bit about yourself. So the audience knows vaguely who you are apart from my nebulous friend who plays D and D with me. Ah, and. 03:21.53 Sam Ah d and d player. Um, trepidacious fan of horror in general massive fan of Lovecraft although recently has been more and more exposed to me of how. 03:29.59 Cameron And of nimocraft or the reason. 03:37.61 Sam Ah, the more extreme sides of his um of of the racist. Let's just say it history of it. Yeah, and the decoupling of the artist from the art is something that. 03:37.68 Cameron Um, oh yeah, we've been. We've been through that at least he doesn't make money off stories anymore. It's okay, we can like them. We just have to admit they're racist and go around that. 03:57.37 Sam I mean there's been huge things talked about and something that we're probably going to have to do a little today otherwise filled if it will probably be in jail or while not jail but an asylum some sort. 03:57.51 Cameron Ah, huge. Oh yeah, and it's not that we're probably gonna. 04:07.99 Cameron I mean um yeah, like like if art is an expression of who you are on the inside and it definitely was in a lot of cases for hb lovecraft he he wrote from the wretched little thing he called a heart. Ah, if if that's the case of Phil Tippe 04:19.35 Sam Ah, scared little thing scared. 04:23.37 Cameron Um, I'm scared for anyone within five hundred miles of his location. So also the man himself I don't want him hurting himself. Yeah yeah, um, yeah, ah have you create. 04:26.92 Sam I'm scared for the man of himself. Ah, yeah, exactly what? what? eyes must the man look out of to have a view that would create such a thing. Oh it's wonderful. Yeah yeah. 04:40.10 Cameron Ah, yeah, yeah, it's it's um, pretty pretty insane. Some would say mad. Um, if you haven't guessed by the epo title which I don't know if it's going to be a straightforward or cryptic episode title. That's always the toss-up, we're going to be talking about mad god by Phil tippet. 04:46.72 Sam As guessed by the absolute process. It's going to be straight forward printing. 04:58.92 Cameron Ah, it it does what it says on the ten it release 2021 yes yeah 05:02.10 Sam Says released 2021 began initial ah work when the 90 s yeah. 05:07.91 Cameron Yeah, like 91 if it's if it was a 30 year production presumably started in the early 90 s yeah so address yes around us? Yes, yeah, actually. 05:14.20 Sam If he worked on Jurassic Park I believe then that would have been around about the same time. So I don't I don't know anything about the linearity of the movie compared to its development but over such a long timeframe you would have had to sort of been. 05:30.43 Cameron Over such long and time you learn sort of think you would have to. 05:33.56 Sam You would have to have thought that some of his other work would influence the style at various points of the production and it's so hard to begin. 05:37.84 Cameron Yeah, yeah, yeah, no absolutely like oh I mean where to begin as a film this is this is such a barrage of experience. 05:52.18 Sam It's yes I will say is probably the that but I don. 05:53.90 Cameron Like I will say this from the bat I don't think I've ever watched anything else that is so like carnally innately experiential as a media piece like there is not a single word of dialogue in this film I'm vaguely remembering I'm pretty sure that if. 06:08.56 Sam There is a couple of words that come through as like a radio broadcast. Yeah. 06:13.22 Cameron Yes, yeah, you get the occasional staticky garbled word. Yeah, but apart from that there's no dialogue it is just pure like visual visual audio carnage on the senses. Oh no, yeah. 06:27.46 Sam That's not to say there's no like a audible communication. There's a couple of ah you would call them characters because they're Humanoid shaped. Um, and yes. 06:35.45 Cameron Um, which they act I think perhaps yes, um, yes yeah. 06:40.50 Sam Ah, they yeah and they make room sort of noises minecraft. Ah, ah yeah, well the minecraft villager noises just like ah. 06:48.14 Cameron Yeah, the minecraft Zombie Ho comes up a lot and also that I'm personally am a big fan of the ubiquitous use of monkey-based audio throughout the film. Yeah is that there's a lot of there's a lot of the Monkey shriek which is very old school. 06:58.61 Sam Yeah, yeah's definitely that lot of them free which. 07:06.64 Cameron Like stop motion animation feeling to it as well. Like this is this is ninety ninety five percent a stop motion animation. It is like we're going to get deep into this. We're going to talk about lots of scenes. You should just go watch the film. It's on shutter. 07:06.75 Sam So much animation feeling. Yes, definitely it's. 07:24.69 Cameron Shut is worth your time and money go get go subscribe go watch Mad god watch everything else in there. There's plenty of incredibly good stuff on there. Um, we're going to attempt to talk about the film. 07:37.94 Cameron We're probably not really going to be able to spoil anything in that regard. We might be able to give you a rough idea of what to expect from certain parts. But yeah, yeah, um. 07:44.73 Sam Let's let's just put this at the top because so far we've sort of danced around the issue. There's the the film itself is definitely more better to described as an experience there. It is a long series of mostly sometimes connected scenes skits. 07:52.40 Cameron Spot. Yeah, the the. 07:59.26 Cameron Say get where. 08:02.42 Sam Where stop motion photography details a ah little plot in an extremely abstract, not necessarily surreal but it certainly dances with it. Ah ah, hellscape Let let's just put that out there. It is absolutely definitely. 08:12.75 Cameron Yes, oh yeah, it is hell it is absolutely definitely. 08:22.34 Sam Ah, many people's idea of some of the more Southern areas of the garden of earthly delights. 08:23.23 Cameron So. Yeah, yeah, yeah, can can we say a modern day Dante's inferno yeah I Trump not I spoke fair enough is. 08:34.15 Sam I was thinking about that on the way up Cameron and I I would probably say not for reasons I'll go into later because although ah, this might be contentious but I think the film might actually have a plot. 08:47.36 Cameron Yeah, potentially it's not just a tour I do agree that there is something happening here and I'm snatching at the vaguest of sparkling glitter in the air going is this is this plot is this a clue and it takes forever. But when you get to the end of the experience. 08:51.20 Sam Yeah, it's not be happening actually fa. 08:58.40 Sam This what takes grow when he definite. 09:07.40 Cameron You definitely feel like there is something going on and that you might have bleaned a little bit of this is what it is. This is the closest we've come to that moment where the the good thing about Eldra Tora is looking at a jumble of complete. 09:11.86 Sam Do This is what it is yes, close comes during that boy but good better for. 09:22.61 Cameron Nonsense This is not complete nonsense this all has meaning and symbolisms in but looking at like a central overload and for a moment it aligns and you see purpose and meaning behind all of it and then you keep thinking then it unaligns and you go wait. What was this all about and it has that sort of feeling. 09:33.38 Sam Final new. Yeah I away. 09:40.55 Sam Feeling. Definitely. 09:42.28 Cameron Um, it's I think it is probably the most effective capturing of that sort of yeah that that sort of eldritch horror. There's deeper meaning there's deeper intent back here but we can only barely glimpse the the true understanding of it. 09:59.28 Sam Is there. There is definitely a few moments where the the curtains are pulled back to show that there is a bigger picture going on. But if the the vast bulk of the movie suffuses you with this? Ah, ah. 10:03.35 Cameron Yes. 10:17.98 Sam It's such a powerful ah emotion. There's so many things it's It's a long running ah anxiety attack I would probably I would probably call it rust and flesh. Then. 10:23.80 Cameron It's yeah. 10:27.48 Cameron Um, yes, yes, Yes, yeah, yeah, no it. It's that that sort of palpable continual dreads low in the chest grab a whole thing. 10:34.50 Sam Anxiety anxiety attack of the movie. You know it's yeah it. Ah. 10:45.36 Sam The sense of dread is masterfully done. Um the the pervasion the the ambient oppressive doom that that that most of the movie has is. 10:47.62 Cameron Yeah. 10:56.14 Cameron Yes, to the? yeah so. 11:01.97 Sam Ah, so so masterfully done but let's just do it a little bit about Phil tip but just in case, you don't know who he is ah he if you don't know the name you definitely know his work is probably a sentence that is easily googleogable star wars cante as a stop motion behind that Jurassic Park rovoop 11:05.92 Cameron Yes, so oh yeah, absolutely yeah rub cop. Absolutely. 11:21.59 Sam Um, he all of this belies what you might think the movie could be about because ah the first twenty minutes of the movie are an exercise in how much you're able to take in terms of body horror. 11:27.47 Cameron Mean first. So. 11:38.85 Cameron What? yes yes I hope. 11:41.27 Sam Ah, it we're we're delving into Cronenberg's worst nightmare for a lot of a lot of it. Yeah. 11:45.10 Cameron Oh man. Yeah, yeah, it is that is the thing like it is it is hell and it's not holding back on that like this is one of like the like I feel the correct term is grotesque. 11:56.90 Sam On that like Tis not hold back. That's for sure. Yeah, definitely. So. 12:04.40 Cameron Right? Like so much of this film. The first off, there's just that there's the straight up terrible things like there's an ongoing depiction of what I would call that sort of world war 1 world war two eque sort of hellscape that is sort of prevalent throughout a lot of the film but then it just. Heaps layering on there like there's there's torture There's a bunch of scatology is best way to put it. Yeah that there's there's a lot of toilet stuff. 12:31.76 Sam Ah, yeah, there is a little bit. Um well that ah that sort of ah so I've just I've just completely finished the podcast. The Magnus archives which deals with ah. 12:39.50 Cameron So just I still. 12:47.25 Sam Ah, different types of fear and its domains now for for fans of that podcast I'd probably call this like 60% of the flesh 30% vast and 10% the stranger if if that means anything to anyone else. Um, but. 12:47.88 Cameron So. 12:58.57 Cameron Yeah. 13:06.90 Sam It definitely touches on things that you would normally ah feel very very icky about like that I once watched a ah psychologist who has to deal with extreme phobias demonstrate How some phobias are not only useful and normal. 13:11.60 Cameron Yeah, like. 13:18.94 Cameron 3 yes for any. And but. 13:26.18 Sam Ah, but pervade us to an extent that we don't realize like so if you knew a let's say toilet seat had been ah, completely fully disinfected and was you know, literally clean enough to eat off, you would still feel. 13:28.65 Cameron Yeah, yeah, yeah. 13:40.43 Cameron Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry no I know. 13:45.47 Sam Extremely icky about Li it or something like that. It's sorry to be disgusting but it's it's exactly that sort of extreme sort of visceral sense that that the whole movie just plays with yeah. 13:57.33 Cameron Um, yeah, yeah, like I think that was the the first moment I went. Okay, this is definitely going to be something else is like the the film opens again with this sort of World War Twoi style Hellcap There's ah, there's a fortress in amongst the. 14:12.88 Sam Portraits in a monster but in it does like. 14:13.97 Cameron A desert of concrete rubble that kind of stuff. Um, there's there's like a diving Bell kind of contraption descending from the heavens. Yes, yeah yeah. 14:22.20 Sam An extremely Rusty diving bell that's why I mentioned rusten flesh anxiety attack the movie the the whole everything manmade appears to be extremely aged dilapidated ah just. 14:31.75 Cameron Yeah to to left the. 14:37.40 Sam If it's made of metal. It's Rusty if it's not made of metal. It has crumbled almost but not quite to dust exactly? yes. 14:38.83 Cameron Yes, yes, right on the edge of the end of entropy sort of yeah um, but yeah, this diving Bell descends. You know the one of the main characters sort of steps out and begins. 14:51.45 Sam I believe is called the Assassin in the credits. 14:55.57 Cameron The assassin yeah begins sort of descending and 1 of the first early scenes of this dissent is um, you see a bunch of people essentially on the electric chair and as the assassin approaches. You realize these are not human size. These are. 15:05.71 Sam You Oh my God I forgot that bit. 15:13.89 Cameron Vast like skyscraper size giants on electric chairs as tall as like the empire State building being tortured and because they're being killed with electricity. They're defecating and it's being funneled through the bottom of the chair like deeper into the the world below and I went. 15:20.28 Sam Honesty and. 15:24.92 Sam Yes. 15:33.16 Cameron This is going to get really really weird. Really really fast. Yeah yeah. 15:35.42 Sam Yeah, no, that's not quite the opening scene but it's it's pretty much there and yeah and so that as an introduction even before all the ah car the the fleshy carnage and malformed Monstrosities appear that you get. Ah. 15:50.40 Cameron Melttrosity Oh man. Yeah. 15:52.65 Sam Ah, close the lookup later before all that appear you're instantly confronted with violent death and the rather disgusting follow-ups to that? Yeah, but that's that's so sorry to interrupt that's not quite the opening scene though. So the the first two scenes. 15:57.89 Cameron And yeah, yeah, absolutely like it is so sorry. Yeah, yeah, true true. Please first. 16:12.21 Sam Is a ah like a almost a shadow puppet ah sort of thing of the tower of Babel and something is atop it a character. Do you see that character or I won't say that the. 16:18.89 Cameron Like yes Yes, okay. 16:28.60 Cameron Ah, on the book though the wibbly one yes is as good a name as any. Ah we see we see? yeah. 16:32.90 Sam The the wibbly one exactly? Yeah, so you see him later is that wheel add to say that a bit late now Samuel so well no, but that that that's just it if he's at the top. 16:45.10 Cameron Perhaps the mad God Yeah for he's reaching mad god. 16:50.25 Sam The tower of Babel He's not the God he is. He is ah a denizen of the world that was created by Mount God and then it goes into a a scene from leviticus a scroll of text scrolling past the. 16:55.82 Cameron Yeah, open. Well yes, truth. Yeah, like on human flesh I'm pretty sure as well. Yeah. 17:08.73 Sam Camera Yeah, exactly? um, but it's leviticus ah detailing why God is angry so I would posit that this God is not mad in the Lovecraftian ah just insane sort of way. 17:15.39 Cameron Like yeah, so. 17:24.51 Cameron Me Insane Yeah yeah, is yes, ah this is this is punishment rather than the after effect of just complete insanity. 17:26.27 Sam Which a lot of the movie would would have you believe because it is completely bonkers but angry instead of of insane. 17:40.65 Sam Exactly and these hellscapes. Ah, the world below is ah what the world becomes after the God ah finishes his wrath rather than what he did with this Earth which was just you know stop the job halfway through really. 17:41.21 Cameron Which Strengthens yeah strengthens the hell. Yeah yeah, so yeah, halfs good enough there we go. 17:57.63 Sam Um, exactly um, the yeah if ah if the world was completely destroyed as as ah as a hellscape then that would almost certainly be something like this because this is this has no. 17:59.76 Cameron Yeah. 18:06.96 Cameron Completely destroyed and. 18:12.25 Cameron Yeah, this has. 18:16.87 Sam Ah, conscious entities in in this hellscape. There is only unthinking damned souls suffering. Yeah. 18:25.88 Cameron So yeah, yeah, like it is it is a lot. We're gonna keep saying this throughout this recording I think this film This experience is a lot. Um, yeah yeah I. 18:35.22 Sam Is bill really is capital a Capital l. 18:42.90 Cameron I think that's part of first off, got to say love the film. It's not being clear from us just sort of raving like to to people do people sharing a cell in the asylum about it so far. Ah, um, it's really really good. It is just in terms of production. 18:48.52 Sam Like talking excitedly. Ah, it had. 19:00.15 Sam On the polished the answer the action. But in press. 19:01.78 Cameron It is I think Polished Beyond the edge of perfection but in reverse because the polish here is every detail of grunge and filth and absolute decay is about as perfect and yet these are puppet sets. You know there's all almost all stop motion. The level of detail they have on these expansive hell Scapes of Cracked rubble and and like collapsed society and then getting down even just like flesh and just the base stuff of creation. Yeah yeah, like the the level of detail. 19:22.54 Sam Expand Yes, my life collapse. 19:29.54 Sam The glistening postules The so the the slime and the blood. 19:39.64 Cameron Is in itself sort of insane on that level the cinematography they've done on these sets is great. Yeah oh man. Yeah, um. 19:41.60 Sam So say very true when I went through the the credits and the hundreds of people that had worked on this. Oh oh, that's why it was polished to a mirror finish because it wasn't just one person. 19:56.80 Cameron Usual. 20:00.72 Sam Because just one person even ah, just the the most anal retentive person working on a single project over 30 years is going to cut a corner now and then but no, this is this. This was a large project m. 20:04.55 Cameron Yeah, project over? Yeah yeah, yeah, this was this was hundreds of people working working their butts off to realize the vision of 1 20:21.43 Sam Sealize them. 20:23.67 Cameron Definitely definitely creative person it it is yeah it is in its technical aspect almost flawless. Ah, now said I've said it's 95% stop motion. There are a few instances where. 20:26.30 Sam Oh yes, oh yes. 20:34.40 Sam Flawless now set I gonna say 95 20:42.89 Cameron They clearly didn't want just stop motion and got some human actors in and there was yeah Yesge the Surgeon the nurse and then. 20:47.77 Sam Yeah, there was a total I think a total of 3 human actors. There was ah the surgeon I think was the I think a surgeon was sometimes stop motion but I might be wrong. 21:02.29 Cameron Yeah, definitely yeah, the the bishop the architect of of the assassins or something. Yeah Mr. Fingernail. 21:03.99 Sam The nurse was definitely human and the let's call him bishop. Well yeah I again I Believe the the credits called him. Ah the last human Lord Sorry the last man. 21:20.38 Cameron Um, ah yes, yeah. 21:23.28 Sam And again that makes me think that. Ah, that man might be the mad God and he's trying to further destroy the world below by sending assassins. But that's. 21:30.52 Cameron Enjoy! Yeah yeah, um, that. 21:38.92 Sam Ah, in terms of theories that's pretty half bacon. It's literally just what I was thinking about when I came up here on the drive. 21:43.90 Cameron So yeah, yeah, as been swiring around in my head to like as as far as motivation stuff for characters in here. It's it's anyone's game. Ah yeah. 21:52.11 Sam Yeah, it's again, it's ah to to briefly speak about spoilers. It's it's difficult to spoil this movie and even what I just said as ah as like destruction of possible surprises. No No this this this is not.. You're not going to this movie for the plot you're you're going to this movie to be suffused to let yourself. Ah, let yourself be shocked awed. Um, yes, definitely so. 22:10.39 Cameron A moon 6 22:19.98 Cameron To let yourself experience. Yeah or lot of that. Ah yeah, yeah, shocked awed and disturbed I think is probably a and that that anxiety ride at anxiety ride is so real. Um. 22:31.52 Sam Definitely just do it. Yeah, that's the one. Yes, oh my God yes. 22:37.36 Cameron Yeah, like there is a scene about halfway through the film which is just the surgery scene where I think they dive deep into okay we need to make sure anyone who's been relatively unfazed so far has to be Phased. We must face them. Yeah. 22:56.10 Sam Right? Okay, so we'll we'll get. We'll make this phase attempt number one and we'll just sort of Okay, so do you think they would be phased by that or no, no okay, well let's do this instead exactly? yeah. 23:06.54 Cameron Yeah, some of the staff aren't openly weeping yet. Let's dig a little deeper. 23:14.40 Sam Let's literally dig for metaphors because. 23:17.14 Cameron Ah, it's it's wild. Yeah, um, so yeah, have one of the assassins because we we spend the whole like first third of the film following an assassin this sort of jackbooted trenchcoded gas maskst almost stalker esque. 23:31.00 Sam I would I would probably call it Diesel punk. Yeah, he's got a briefcase and breathing modules on the on the diving bell down into this hellscape. You briefly see a yeah. 23:33.59 Cameron Character Diesel Punk is a good word for it Absolutely and we followed this Assassin He's got a briefcase. He's got a mission. So. 23:49.83 Sam Ah, some feathers at the bottom of a cage. It's ah very clearly insinuated that this whole hell scape is toxic to him. It's ah it's an environment suit. Yeah yes. 23:50.42 Cameron Yes, there's. 23:57.98 Cameron Yeah, no, absolutely yeah, the the canaries are long dead at this point. Um, but yeah, we we follow this assassin down and and he's carrying a briefcase the whole way which he seems to be taking great care of. 24:12.39 Sam Breakhead and we get to an area. 24:14.43 Cameron And we get to an area where there is a small mountain of briefcases which I mean yeah, not even small. Yeah um I mean which we've we. We've mentioned a lot. It's it's the hellscape of human invention and hell and everything. Yeah. 24:18.56 Sam Cases not just small. But yeah multiple mountains. 24:29.28 Sam It is definitely meant to be ah exhuman areas when the diving Bell reaches its destination. It lands at a literal crossroads of a road with street lights and markings upon the bitjaen and I thought that crossroads it's a little bit on the nose and whatever. 24:33.51 Cameron Yeah, not much. 24:39.12 Cameron Um, yeah, yeah, holding on the nose. Yeah yeah, but yeah, we get to this mountainous suitcases and. 24:46.38 Sam Okay. 24:50.13 Cameron It's like that again. World war 1 world war two imagery and then we we we just sort of start crossing that threshold into straight up like the holocaust imagery which that I've been to auschwitz and stuff and like there are rooms where they just have a bunch of leftover suitcases or shoes or hair and all that kind of thing. It's it's. 24:51.45 Sam Go through Imagery and just want to start. Like yes, wish. 25:09.91 Cameron It It is just kind of piled like that and it is you you look and go Oh he's not the character. He's a character and you know everyone who's come before him has made it this far essentially and something terrible is happening. He says the briefcase down. It's a bomb. 25:12.70 Sam To air. Ah, it's it is just kind of pile the you. 25:22.11 Sam Made it this far the seemingly and some fearable cabinet. 25:29.50 Cameron Just a bunch of dynamite with a timer in a briefcase. Ah and begin setting it and then this this syringe and gear and Piston creature this this sort of mad gut. It looks like in dead space. 25:29.90 Sam Much time. Yeah yeah setting. 25:47.69 Cameron You know the the ones with the tail the neckmorse with the tail and the 2 limbs that crawl around like whip with the tails. It looks like that basically but made out of made out of mechanical bits it it grabs our assassin carries them off and the bomb fails to go off and then we get. 25:51.84 Sam It it if it definitely has elements of that. Yeah. 26:05.43 Cameron The the the point where they go. You must be phased at this point you're going to strip down this person who we thought was the main character we're going to lay him out on a table and we're goingnna just vivisset for for a prolonged like 5 minute scene whatever with ah with our live action. 26:14.45 Sam And that man is a tartars. There's a lot of stuff inside and yeah. 26:24.67 Cameron Yeah, like it starts out really disturbing and it then it gets more disturbing and then it gets a little goofy and then it gets very disturbing like you know like you'd like crack the ribs and pull off the front of the chest and start the cracking was awful. Yeah. 26:30.10 Sam Yeah mary. 26:38.21 Sam Oh the cracking. Ah okay I need to derail this further I I need to talk about the sound design. So I like yourself I'm very very passionate about audio in in different ways to you though and I've spent a lot of time and. 26:42.52 Cameron Please Oh my god. 26:50.66 Cameron Poised. Yeah yeah, and. 26:55.51 Sam Even more effort and and lots of money on on my little home theater and it's it's movies like this really make me happy that I have because just having having the attention paid to the sound design. Ah when the. 27:00.18 Cameron For. Oh yeah, yeah I mean. 27:11.39 Cameron I. 27:15.18 Sam It wheels going over certain gravel The the cracking of the ribs little little chimes and tinktoles coming from areas that you don't expect. There is just so much going on sonically with with with this movie that it's ah, just as much. 27:20.21 Cameron Cracking. Yeah hello. Ease. Yes. 27:32.63 Sam Ah, well no, it's not just as much as the visuals but that's why where you and I are ah both ah saying that it's a feast. It is an experience it suffuses you I I believe Philvitz himself said that the best way to enjoy this movie is like. 27:39.66 Cameron That is very yeah, yeah, totally. 27:51.75 Sam On gummies or weed or at least a bottle of wine. Um, um, the well that's just it because ah that sort of thing can also ah prolong. 27:53.65 Cameron Ah I'm sure it would have helped my experiences by being a little over the edge. 28:08.63 Sam Your ability to ah absorb small details like that you're able to ah absorb the totality if not your ability to process it. But that's okay because processing this is ah is. 28:11.64 Cameron Schools in new. 28:19.58 Cameron Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, lo in like four months I'm going to get real drunk and watch this movie again. 28:27.97 Sam No no, you want to try and not do that. Yeah. 28:34.64 Cameron And go through it with the brain that's able to just slow down and pick out details. But even even just watching this stone cold sober with just a headset and a darkened room was enough for me for now. Um, but yeah, yeah, crack the ribs just start dumping viscera out of out of our assassin and then. 28:43.59 Sam Um. 28:47.49 Sam For me for yeah, ah yeah for. 28:54.49 Cameron They start doing the Mary Poppins thing where the surgeon just reaches deeper and deeper into like a normal sized. Ah I'm getting I'm getting shoulder deep inside inside a foot foot and a half deep torso um and starts pulling out. 28:54.65 Sam Oh God Yes, yeah here hold my legs I'm going to lean all the way into this man's body. Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh Jewels but. 29:11.79 Cameron Gold and jewelry and and hooks which is really interesting. So yes. 29:14.33 Sam Books as well and he he's clearly looking for something. The surgeon is clearly he he sifts he he brings out 2 large handfuls almost a full armful of ah necklace Jewels massive jewels gold coins doloons. Let's call them. 29:28.62 Cameron Do soon? dont yeah yeah, and. 29:33.50 Sam And he's he's just sort of letting them run through his fingers. He's clearly sifting sifting. No no, no bugger it and then just dumps the coins and everything with the ah with the various vacera over the side and and then continues looking for more and then he brings out books. 29:38.81 Cameron Don. 29:45.87 Cameron So yeah, yeah, and that's. 29:52.33 Sam And then he just sort of rifles through some as if he's looking for something in a book and so there's these things these vital valuable things coming out of his chest and also information coming out of his chest as if it's I don't know memories. 29:53.63 Cameron Something and. 29:59.67 Cameron Yeah, yeah, nice. Yeah yeah, and smooth. So. 30:06.90 Sam Or bits of his soul that he values and then bits of his soul that he remembers coming out of his chest and the surgeon is looking for these and then what does he find at the end. 30:10.25 Cameron Yes, he pulls out the of what I would like to school call the spine slug baby. 30:21.83 Sam Ah, yes I'd I'd call I'd call it. Let oh well sorry, can we pause this? yeah a newborn Xenomorph It looks like a newborn Xenomorph made of. 30:27.30 Cameron So yeah, yeah, we could both 7 you but sea yes, like um and made of lintonlime. 30:38.30 Sam Linton slime like um it I think I feel very strongly. It has the the snake-like qualities of the initial Xennomorphpha um, where especially because it's teeter on display. Um. 30:48.16 Cameron Yes, yeah, absolutely when yes, yes, it's very humanish teeth. 30:58.85 Sam Ah, yeah, has sort of a spiky sort of spine going down it? Um, but it's ah I think there was soundtracks little clips of babies crying before this. But here's where it really begins and if baby's crying triggers you because it does for me then it. 31:10.36 Cameron Yes, its ah man. Yeah I know is and. 31:17.34 Sam Ah, this is where it starts to get a little bit Effy because it just doesn't stop for a little while. Yeah. 31:20.80 Cameron It does not let up. Yeah, yeah, from this point on anytime the nurse or the Xenomorph of Linton Slime is on screen. You will hear a baby just crying continually now I'm not a child person despite working with children for my living. 31:38.88 Sam Ah. 31:39.29 Cameron Ah, but I'll tell you what it puts my teeth on edge after about 30 seconds and you know there's about half of the movie left ish. At this point I'd say a good third of the rest of that half of the movie is sort of a sixth overall is baby crying time. Ah it is it is again. Definitely. 31:41.94 Sam Oh yeah, is so. 31:52.48 Sam Painting right? Yeah yeah, ah again, definitely. 31:59.28 Cameron Part of the design here is to keep you on edge keep you phased? Um, yeah yeah. 32:03.40 Sam Definitely yeah as as going back to it before anxiety attacked the movie and and my brother is a well not a new parent now I guess we call him a recent parent but he will definitely say that. Um. 32:12.39 Cameron A recent history. Yeah, so. 32:17.74 Sam Ah, it it gets you when you become a parent the sound of a crying child gets you very very deep down and you don't expect it and you have no choice but to address that problem. Yeah now. 32:25.35 Cameron Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's It's one of those base instinctual things which things like this like this cat sitting behind me it deliberately take advantage of but it's still so much more when it is just literal human. 32:42.49 Sam Exactly. 32:43.87 Cameron Baby crying like the mewing of a cat will only get you so far. This is viscerally upsetting I think is probably the best way to put it just to hear that and know because this is a film. Obviously we can't do anything to help with that. We have to sit here and experience what happens? um. 33:00.97 Sam Absolutely horror games medium films often use the sound of babies crying to to disturb. Ah, but most of those guys generally let up after a little while this movie carries it right through. 33:03.10 Cameron Yeah, so. 33:07.97 Cameron Yeah, most yeah yeah, yeah there, Why you you. 33:17.82 Sam Um, your your little terror slug with baby crying. Um, it was something that sort of the the juxtaposition of the baby crying but also it has teeth. It has a full set of inches. Um, very human. 33:29.10 Cameron Yes, oh yeah, clearing. 33:36.82 Sam Ah, very human teeth and as another character just sort of carries it from scene to scene you can you can see its little mouth and it's white teeth just sort of open close as the soundtrack of the baby crying just sort of fades in and out and gets louder. 33:39.99 Cameron Carried things. 33:45.89 Cameron Like sort of yeah so like. 33:51.49 Cameron Fine. Yeah, like my God it's It's so much. It is so much. Um, yeah, yeah. 33:56.31 Sam It is so much you correct about that it. Yeah yeah, and that that that character carries it past some some interesting scenes that ah I really didn't understand there was the. 34:09.61 Cameron Yeah, yeah, that was the great. Oh yes message. 34:13.82 Sam Green Amoeba just sort of swimming. There was the massive Yellow cylinders with something clearly inside them something living a prisoner maybe or and some spawn some massive spawn that they plan on D like. 34:20.73 Cameron 5 magic yes, and so some yes massive or. 34:32.35 Sam Cloning and then just sort of ah oh God It really is um the yeah, the the sound design and the visual aspects is just overwhelming. 34:33.93 Cameron Yeah, it's a lot Visually, It's hard to comprehend a lot of it. You know like ah. 34:52.35 Sam For the full hour and 23 minutes um it really doesn't. 34:52.80 Cameron Um, but yeah, yeah, it doesn't let up like the the closest thing to a sense of calm in this is a sense of menace rather than immediate distress like. 35:05.54 Sam Yeah I like that yes, that's exactly it Harry Carrie 35:09.80 Cameron Like we we we carry we carry baby slug through its journey to a massive set of electronic doors that you know slowly grind their way open and there's the closest thing to come. We get is this like nine and a half foot tall phantom plague doctor. 35:18.50 Sam Ride their way over and the closest thing to come. We get. 35:29.61 Cameron Like strung with all sorts of like warding beads and with these enormous triple-jointed Finger Handss Um, and ah ah, it's incredible. Um, this is this is like probably the calmest moment in the film. 35:37.54 Sam Yeah, of ah the the way opens the hands to accept the baby in in the beginning. Ah. 35:48.64 Cameron Because it's just moving calmly and it's not actively hostile and there's nothing being maimed or dismembered or shitting all over the place is that moment of well this is worrying but it's not actively awful. 35:59.63 Sam Ah. 36:07.39 Cameron Like 3 seconds and then yeah, the the hands unfold and the nurse very reluctantly hands over baby slug and the hands fold up to hold it firmly and is like turns around off it goes and. 36:10.92 Sam Um. 36:17.63 Sam So yeah, and. 36:26.76 Cameron Still pretty still pretty bad after that point. Yeah, yeah, it's um, it is so much just what got to keep say that it's so much. Um. 36:39.91 Sam So much. It certainly is um I'm just good it. Oh yeah, that's right, the ah special guest that it had about halfway through a giant red coronavirus. Yeah. 36:49.18 Cameron The special case. Um, Yes, yeah I did I did make note of that is like in in amongst all the horrors of the world with like these little homunculi people who make up the mass of like. Moving sapient-ish creatures in this film is the attack of the coronavirus which felt very on the nose but it's just this red floating viral viral particle that descends from heaven again and lands and. 37:16.73 Sam Viral Yeah again and and it like picks off some of some of the denizens of of the hell scape and then just sort of attacks it with a ah giant viral proboscus. 37:31.22 Cameron Yeah, which is really I Really love because it is accurate to the to the biological level of how a virus works is like it's this balloon with legs. Basically that comes down and when it contacts something just a spike slams down into the cell. 37:38.86 Sam Yeah, yeah way. Yeah, nice. 37:49.41 Cameron But in this case, it's more like a little targeted proboscis whip thing. Yeah and it's just yeah yeah. 37:53.28 Sam Yeah, so I guess it I guess that since it occurred halfway through the movie then yeah it it wasn't ah it wasn't developed at at the end of the movie. So I guess there was some. 38:05.36 Cameron I mean they they they to like that in in their in their late 2020 work and gone like I'm really feeling down about this whole coronavirus thing and feel goes you're feeling down. Would you say you feel dread madness quick. 38:09.66 Sam Rearranging of scenes either that or now. 38:24.76 Cameron The virus up in store. Um, yeah. 38:28.30 Sam Um, oh my God Ah it's it's It's either that or um, they already knew what a a retrovirus sort of looks like biologically and just included that it just happened to. 38:35.76 Cameron Um, yeah, yeah I mean the line up which yeah, yeah and I mean like there's to be said for that this this touches on a lot of like. 38:43.52 Sam Be in a scene that came out a year after coronavirus hit. 38:53.67 Cameron The the things that people fear the things that make people feel like dread and despair. There's there's war. There's torture. There's helplessness. There's poverty and then also people don't like getting sick and dying. So here's a scene where a bunch of giant viruses descend. 38:54.70 Sam Yeah, maybe. 39:08.16 Sam The the corruption or oh oh yes, yes, did it or exactly yeah, it definitely has more of the Worlds ah or even. 39:11.12 Cameron War of the world style and just ah, yeah yeah. 39:20.91 Sam Even Mars attacks points at some point that actually that that yeah I did want to talk about ah comedy in the in this film. There is definitely a few moments of like if if it wasn't for the steamrolling. 39:26.61 Cameron Yes, absolutely there is. 39:37.37 Cameron The same. 39:40.66 Sam Doom dread. Ah oppressive ambiance that you can dig with a spoon that that there is some moments that would be outright hilarious. There's when he when he gets into the into the Jeep and the Latina music starts playing he goes bang bang. No. 39:46.31 Cameron Yeah, oh man which. 39:58.66 Cameron Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is the um, the second assassin that gets sent down. Yeah like that that that second assassin's whole bit is much more. 40:00.36 Sam No music and just sort of percussive maintenance. Turns it off E yeah. 40:14.45 Cameron Light in that sense like he he comes down. he's he's smart he's immediately thinking like I don't want to walk here walking sucks I'll find I'll get a bicycle he finds a bice on the rabble picks it up and immediately it just falls into like 15 pieces like I'll find a different bus rides the bike as fire as it goes walks finds the jeep. 40:19.96 Sam So yeah, I'll get a bus and find. 40:25.88 Sam Like. 40:33.48 Cameron Hops ins like okay got a hot wire got a hot wire but but but it's so good. It's absolutely hilarious. Um, yeah. 40:33.90 Sam Um, yeah, it's there's There's a ah lot of moments in big budgetd ah comedy movies coming out these days where I feel. 40:50.92 Cameron Moon. 40:54.41 Sam That ah sound design needs to be better better used a a lot of a lot of comedy is really pure dialogue. There is characters talk to each other and that's all the comedy movie is whereas you have a lot of who's the director of of. 40:57.48 Cameron Yeah I won peace properly. 41:05.92 Cameron Yeah. 41:13.66 Sam Sea of the dead. The Cornnado trilogy. Yeah, who's a director. Yes, he did. Yeah now he he's he's He's exactly he's exactly and sort of what I'm talking about here. He's He's a master of using ah the framing of. 41:15.13 Cameron Oh um, nick frost and Simon Peg so oh that the director oh he did baby driver and stuff didn't they oh my god I'm gonna look at up. Oh. 41:28.42 Cameron Using right. 41:33.24 Sam Ah, what is directing and also the sound design ah etc right? That's exactly it. He's um, exactly how um, there's just moments of of of comedy perfection. 41:36.34 Cameron Um, andgar right? A we forget egar right. 41:48.17 Cameron Yes, yeah, yeah, there's the occasional garbled radio word. There's the Monkey screams and the baby's crying and that's about it for like mouth sounds that could potentially be interpreted as dialogue. 41:50.48 Sam That um you can't and you can't get from Dialogue which is good because this movie doesn't have any. 42:05.85 Sam Interpret yeah. 42:08.13 Cameron But yeah, there is I think an effective part of horror because I think this film hits horror more accurately than almost anything else I've seen horror being like that that creeping dread. Um, yeah, but you need to undercut it occasionally. 42:16.10 Sam Like that that thread. Yeah yeah, but. 42:25.89 Sam Occasionally because is tiny slightly. 42:26.84 Cameron Because if there weren't these tiny slightly comedic moments I think this film would be much worse for wear. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty. 42:34.57 Sam It It definitely gets. It's hard mode. It's definitely. It's definitely a difficult one to get through. You need to be pretty passionate about not only ah horror movies in general and stop motion in general. 42:46.30 Cameron And yes, yes, fast. 42:50.67 Sam And that just tick all my boxes but but also the ability to explore within yourself to to accept that it's giving you something to feel and explore that on the fly while it's also giving you something else. 42:56.13 Cameron Yes, yes. 43:04.35 Cameron Names. Yeah, yeah, So yeah, absolutely like it's those few rare moments where you can go huh that was a bit funny and go Oh Maybe it's not also bad and then the film goes. No, it's bad like lets you sink back down and like that depth of dread is. 43:09.30 Sam Because it definitely gives you something else. 43:15.75 Sam Yeah, maybe secret like that. 43:25.74 Cameron Deeper and darker for having had that brief moment of levity as but and especially if you have a really dark moment followed immediately by a very brief moment of levity like right near the end of the film. There's the yeah, there's the assistant who has his little his little terrariums. 43:36.80 Sam Yeah, like an emotional jump scare. Oh My God that was so pretty. There was gorgeous. 43:45.17 Cameron All the light the blue it was so pretty. It's it's it is like if if if you asked an Ai to generate a full environment based on a picture of a blue- ringed octopus I think this might be what you would get but it's it's all dark circles with neon rings and then for ida. Um. 43:57.60 Sam Ah, yeah, yeah, it's ah it it looks like a um and an aquarium with a lot of Uv lighting so like with ah fission plants illuminated neon glowing with their own. 44:06.10 Cameron Um, yes, yeah. 44:15.38 Cameron Yeah, yeah, but yeah, it's it's this assistant this laboratory assistant basically caring for his little term. It's got these little blue ringed Octopus Humanoid creatures that appear to be like. 44:15.49 Sam Ah, phosphorescence almost? yeah yeah. 44:26.83 Sam Yeah. 44:30.78 Cameron Either a parent and a child or maybe a mated pair who were enjoying well. 44:34.40 Sam They they they sort of look like the characters from Katamari Dharmacy because because of their heads. Ah yeah, yeah, like bipedal hammerheads. Yes. 44:36.97 Cameron Um, yes, they got the big arnold heads. Yeah, yeah, yeah, um, they're enjoying their meal worms and then for his own entertainment. He releases the blue ring octopus but a mouth spider. Um. 44:49.92 Sam Sp Yeah um, the oh ah I Oh my God The creature design in this movie is out of this bloody world. These aren't these aren't spiders but they're they're spiders. They're ah. 44:57.63 Cameron Um, it's out of the world. Yeah, um, the closest approximation we have. 45:08.71 Sam Um, closest to proximation I would probably say would be blue- ring Doctopus half-life head crabs. Um, yeah, with with a sort of ah. 45:16.75 Cameron Um, might be better just have like the four legs kind of yeah scuttly movement? Yeah yes, yeah, yeah, but yeah, this this is unleashed the the. 45:24.80 Sam Yeah, again, a more human mouth than insectile or arachnid as a case may be. 45:32.71 Cameron Larger of the pair of the peaceful mealworm eaters sees and runs off despairing as the smaller one is eaten and then we just the camera shifts like ° left and we see 2 cockroaches having tea at a table just going. Oh well that just happened basically. 45:34.20 Sam Just runs off despairing. 45:49.44 Sam Not just having tea but having high tea. There's like the wonderful porcelain jug and what are they playing cards or something as well. Ah yeah, the cockroaches survived the apocalypse. Of course they did. Ah. 45:51.15 Cameron Yes, yeah, they got their cru and once more. Yeah yeah, they're playing cards. One of them's got a hand of four aces I think well look off they did that cockroach. Yes. 46:06.65 Sam Yeah. 46:06.93 Cameron Not only that they appear to have been like the the they maintain civilization better than any other species. Yeah, what are the neighbors up to now. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. 46:09.42 Sam Like yeah that they've they've clearly got agency they they they almost go hu well look at that exactly the most expressive cockroaches I've ever seen was amazing. Yeah. 46:25.95 Cameron Um, but yeah, that is one of that that that brief lift of levity because that is like 1 of the for me one of the most soulc crushing moments in that film is we have this beautiful moment of peace and love and then the despair of the parents lover having to abandon the the other half of themselves to the terrible moza to live. 46:36.88 Sam Ah. 46:45.50 Cameron And then it's like and the cockroach are going. Oh quite terrible times Still so good. Oh yeah, you can't last no I. 46:48.10 Sam And I I saw that coming as soon as the amazingly ah, pretty sort of scene of this terrarium came up. It was like this is not going to last. How is this going to be crushed slowly quickly. This viscerally? Yeah yeah. 47:07.62 Cameron Quickly and viscerally in the end. Yeah, it didn't last real I was like a minute or 2 of oh isn't this quite nice I know it's nice, but there's something wrong. There's something wrong. There's sounds because you never get off the anxiety train and in this one? Yeah, um, yeah, which. 47:13.50 Sam No yeah, no no notes. It's always. It's always a yeah. 47:24.99 Cameron But let's talk a little bit about the the ending of the film. The the mystical floaty Underwater styled play doctor carries the baby slug all the way through to this laboratory where we just had the cockroaches having high tea. Ah. 47:32.39 Sam Play doctor carrying the baseline. 47:41.20 Sam So this baby slug which was what was the surgeon was clearly looking for. Ah, it's ah it's the last thing the surgeon finds so presumably. It's like a core memory. It's like the the deepest sliver of a soul of the of the. 47:42.98 Cameron Yeah, So yes. Well yeah, like the deepest parts. So yeah, So and. 47:59.19 Sam Assassin that was sent down and it was handed to this guy who there who who grinds it up and um. 48:05.00 Cameron Yeah, yeah, it's been crying this whole time and he puts it in a little tray like a crib and then the camera pans up to like a meat hammer suspended over it basically and there is crush. It stops crying. That's good. 48:13.63 Sam Then trash. It's oh yeah, that's true. 48:23.26 Cameron But yeah is distilled down into a juice which itself is further distilled down into a powder. Yeah, great of glitter dust. 48:28.35 Sam Further refined into a metal and then ah, a great big plate of ah of so yeah glitter and I for the life I was sure the plague doctor was going to snort that thing I thought he was just going to get a big old straw. 48:38.10 Cameron Oh yeah, just get a little straw and into the into the beef and it did feel like this could have been it like this is hell and this is the only pleasure allotted to these people is. 48:44.88 Sam You like. 48:50.12 Sam Yeah, but. 48:52.89 Cameron You have to kill an assassin and pull out the deepest only really human part of it and grind it down into a fine paste and refine the paste into a powder and then that's the good stuff that's human soul right there or something al but no brings it brings it over to like an aperture if I remember Fred. 48:56.17 Sam Yeah, fine. 49:05.21 Sam Exactly No ah something like that he um I believe it's an open fireplace and scatters the the glitter into the fireplace and. 49:11.74 Cameron Yeah. Yes, and. 49:17.66 Sam It creates an image of the creation of a universe. 49:22.00 Cameron Either an image of the creation of the universe or my brain went into this is perhaps a new universe being born and this is how it's done because we we see we see a universe being created whether it's an image of this current universe being created or a new one. Um, and. 49:27.26 Sam Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. 49:38.67 Cameron Much earlier in the film there. There was this construction going on via way of those giant magnetic slabs that were all zooming around and very comically just running over herunculi which I love all the incidental humunculi murder that itself is also a bit humorous. 49:46.96 Sam Yes, yes. Yeah I could only just imagine the storyboard in monculi murder 397. 49:54.78 Cameron Um, it's not also tragic in certain cases. Oh yeah, we got to and do we need all 300 these in sharp Mr. Hip. It's like yes, it's important to apply? Um, but yeah we see like the black hole at the center of the the galaxy the universe whatever is. 50:04.24 Sam So yes, but yeah, we need. 50:13.71 Cameron Bidding out these magnetic slabs that they were gathering into a structure. Well yes because they impact on planets and then life spreads out from them like they affect and like whether this is yeah seeding a new universe with like these remnants from the Mad God up above perhaps or whether this is yeah. 50:14.56 Sam Yeah, very 2001 overisk yeah yeah why spread now. Yeah yeah, like. 50:30.90 Sam Oh perhaps? yeah yeah, yeah. 50:33.45 Cameron Just them attempting to find information which is important. This lab is filled with equipment but also books he's He's clearly a man of Science Explod perhaps that he perhaps he's just yeah gazing backwards to the creation and understanding. How did we get here? Um, but I kind of personally like. 50:39.41 Sam They're clearly men of science destroying. 50:49.95 Sam Like by minus yet, It's a new University grade. 50:51.20 Cameron My and my initial interpretation which was yeah this is a new universe being created. It's going to end up the same way because we're building it off literally the same building blocks that that because that's what the tower of Babel was made of in the beginning was those same rectangular slabs and so it's sort of it's sort of a throughput of that because. 50:57.79 Sam The same. You can't That's what. 51:08.53 Sam Ah, yeah, yeah. 51:10.98 Cameron In the scene where the slabs first shop they they have deconstructed the tower of babel they they have literally pulled it down. You can still see the bottom layer and the beginning of the ramp that goes up around us. Yeah. 51:20.58 Sam Yes, what? That's what the second assassin was driving up or at least and an echo ah a reference to that and then driving down into it and then down oh my god that you know that felt metaphorical. 51:27.22 Cameron Ah, yeah, yeah, going down down into the deeps. Yes, yeah, um, which yeah, whether that's yeah, spreading life out into the greater universe around them spreading life into a universe. Again, almost pulls on if we're we're going a little biblical here but the point of the tower of Babel's downfall. Yeah, yeah, well the point of the downfall of Tower of Babel was to scatter humanity across the world and in this case, scatter life out which there's no talking. Yeah yeah. 51:45.47 Sam Well, it started with a quote from leviticus. Yeah. 51:54.11 Sam Yeah, yeah, and make it so they couldn't talk to each other as well. Which is why there's no dialogue. Yeah yeah. 52:03.88 Cameron Yeah, which is really excellent like there's so much going on in this film. It doesn't let up. It's always. It's always rough but also there's so much interesting stuff going on here. It's really really fantastic like you can get your teeth in this and chew and. 52:06.53 Sam There really is always. 52:20.83 Sam Ah, why not want. 52:21.63 Cameron You might not want to because of the reflexing disgust when you look at all all the personship and blood of the world that that it's built of but you should get your teeth into this like it's worth thinking a bit about and developing your own thoughts on because I'm sure any number of people could have any number of interpretations of what's going on in here. But it. 52:37.55 Sam So what's going on. Definitely It's really domestic. 52:41.86 Cameron It's really impressive because it's vague and ambiguous like that. But it is definitely like concrete and it carries itself through like it's not wishy-washy just oh, we're doing whatever lol random 2004 star whatever it is. It is got a clear building block. 52:54.15 Sam It is. 53:00.47 Cameron Phil Tippet knows what this is about. He's just the I looked at the reviews on the shutter app as I watched this and the top one was this was excellent. They show you everything they don't tell you anything like there's nothing explicit. You have to. 53:02.81 Sam He's just definitely there I look. 53:15.12 Sam That's yeah, yes, they show you everything? Oh my lord Do they show you everything there is nothing left in hells. 53:18.71 Cameron You have to derive meaning. Yeah they show you it. What? What greater horror is there than the enormous phallic slave overseer getting. Jammed in the rear and having his enormous testicles slapped in order to motivate him to continue whipping the herunculi doing the labor that was also another great funny bit. It's just like here's a little bit of cock and bowl torturech really quick excuse me. 53:38.81 Sam Like oh my god ah you my my favorite. Um my favorite 1 line review of this movie is that this. This movie looks like several people died to bring it to you? Yeah yeah, when you join this project. You must give a lita. 53:56.13 Cameron Ah, yes, just to build the set. We couldn't get. We couldn't get fake materials good enough so we had to borrow intern number 7 skin for this scene. You know? yeah give blood. 54:12.13 Sam All your humors the the clear ones the yellow ones Lots of the red. 54:14.12 Cameron All yeah, all all 4 humours were an old death. Ah lots of blood. Lots of ph flam now. Actually honestly you could probably go through this and do a full humor interpretation of at least part of this film pretty decently. 54:29.57 Sam Ah I hope someone does a thesis on on the. 54:33.62 Cameron Because there's because there's like there's cold and there's hot and there's blood and there's flamelod. There's all, there's all the elements of before humans theology here Theology philosophy. Ah yeah, it is it is It is so much. Um, we've talked about a lot of like the big important scenes. Um. 54:37.87 Sam This This certainly is. 54:48.97 Sam Things talk a little bit. 54:52.40 Cameron Talked a little bit about creature design. Do you have a particular favorite sort of puppet out of this. 54:59.70 Sam Um I would probably say ah most of my favorites actually in the background. Um the the the monsters and the threats and the protagonists and the antagonists. 55:09.22 Cameron Um, yeah, the. 55:14.43 Cameron Yeah, oh. 55:16.96 Sam All wonderful. Ah, but it's It's really the attention paid to the ah to to the background Viscera the ah the living flesh of the surrounding area. Um, the there's one point where you see ah. 55:27.11 Cameron Yeah, ah yeah. 55:37.34 Sam Ah, a face. It's not ah, it's ah it's not live action film. It's ah it's ah it's a it's a puppet. But even even though your focus is on the the puppet's eye and. 55:40.36 Cameron It's of love. It's above. Yes, how do you feel. 55:51.44 Cameron 1 select store. Yeah, but also 3 3 sort of. 55:53.43 Sam Whatever the the heck is going on on the side of his skull or won't say anything more on that. But also he's breathing gently through his nose and there's just sort of ah ah, skin defamation as ah as it's breathing and that sort of attention to detail I. 56:05.85 Cameron Yeah, ah, it's not there. Yeah, absolutely like yeah. 56:10.70 Sam Look for that actively in in other movies and ah sometimes they deliver and sometimes they don't with this thing. It just delivers every single frame. It's just absolutely incredible. 56:23.82 Cameron Yeah, like I think personally my favorite puppets are the hermunculi worker puppets because they they do really fit that background because they're never, they're never the clear open focus of a single scene like there's always something more. 56:28.90 Sam I Those are probably my second one. Actually if I'm being honest. Yeah. 56:42.36 Cameron Threatening or more interesting but this exactly yeah but as they are there but you feel what they're doing like there's all the ones cleaning and stuff. 56:44.53 Sam There's so much emotion presented in those faceless fingerless Footless ah bipedal nothings that but they but still the yeah, they're little, they're little creatures of anguish and. 57:00.88 Cameron Yeah, yeah. 57:01.62 Sam And fear or but yeah, you can you? you can You can feel exactly what they're what they're going through. And yeah you empathize with these things like they're a little clay model that you made yourself putting your own soul into them. 57:04.33 Cameron Yeah, yeah in like yeah, yeah, and yeah, like like in in that scene with the flying obelisks. Um. 57:22.10 Sam Yes, yeah, ah just I yeah. 57:23.38 Cameron There's so many of them in that general thing like you see hundreds of them at a time. It feels like and there all the example. Yeah, one of them is just like on top. He's just finished sweeping off the top. He's like almost wipes off his brow then just in one frame disappears as an obelisk flies through him and and then that becomes like the. 57:32.53 Sam Be like who interesting 1 right? dera and flies through him. Yeah, and then becomes like. 57:43.19 Cameron The trick for like the next 30 seconds is for the rest of that chart. Yeah, who was this this was sort of horrified like this is very funny but also I feel really bad I love that they they fit. 57:45.64 Sam That's one of the first actual laugh out loud moments where says oh oh right? we're we're we're doing a bit here. She yeah. 58:00.48 Cameron They stuff so much emotion into what is literally like a mud and Straw dole at least it feel like they they they appear to be like press molded out of like refined feces as far as I can tell like they're they're the endpoint of the electric chair torture machine I think. 58:03.84 Sam It's yes, yeah, so. So yeah, yeah. 58:19.52 Cameron Something like that or or the beginning point who knows um but it is yeah they stuff so much character into yet like like said these nothings they have no defining features all they have is their actions and their surroundings and so much of that. 58:19.56 Sam So all the beginning point. Ah, it's. 58:26.60 Sam Yeah. 58:32.70 Sam Yeah, so much of that care. 58:35.48 Cameron Care care and attention detail just like with the with the breathing of the face is in here. 58:36.85 Sam They yeah know they that there's one of the first things that you learn in working with clay is that just about everything is made up of snakes you you roll. 58:43.74 Cameron Like yes. 58:51.91 Sam Long lengths of of clay between your hands and then you make things with these long snake lengths of of clay. Um, and that sort of continues on ah through an entire um artist career just about everything is made of snakes these look like they're made of snakes these look like you've got. 58:53.46 Cameron Women responsible. 58:58.94 Cameron Like yeah and that's um, enough. Yeah, like yes, like. 59:11.71 Sam Ah, yeah, clay and Straw just rolled between your hands then just arms put together on the sides. Um, and then there's yeah these faces little cylinders. Ah somehow. 59:16.70 Cameron Um, yeah, yeah. 59:25.89 Cameron Um, sometimes. 59:29.11 Sam Happy with the work they're doing Oh no, he's not he's dead. Yeah. 59:29.96 Cameron yeah yeah I think that that's part of the horror of it is that you can relate to even in your worst times you can take satisfaction in getting something done. And then something comes along to crush you like we we've all had that we've all had the I'm having a dog awful day. This is the worst day of my year so far. But I got this thing done doesn't that feel good That's not bad at all and then something hits you either physically or metaphorically and you go. Oh. 59:44.45 Sam Oh yes, oh. 59:57.71 Sam Yeah, yeah, well. 01:00:01.70 Cameron Well I've just been literally deflated by this this this sort of puncturing of my minor accomplishment of you know I got out of bed or I managed to do this thing this project I needed to finish or whatever. Um, that's thing we can relate to the little faceless mannequin people. 01:00:15.18 Sam Definitely. 01:00:20.43 Cameron So much more than the actual 3 humans in this film which is really funny to me. Um, yeah. 01:00:28.98 Sam If it is indeed the the last man it definitely it definitely hints that there being an actual coherent plot full of full of metaphor. Um, um, I'm still not convinced. There is I'm still not convinced of this theory I thought of just. 01:00:35.61 Cameron Yeah, yeah. 01:00:45.86 Cameron Because. 01:00:46.82 Sam half an hour um but it it does feel like there's something more I hope there is and it's not just a series of ah of scenes. But even just taking it as that it's. 01:00:52.65 Cameron Oh yeah. 01:01:00.99 Cameron Yeah, it's yeah, it's it's deeply experiential I I said this is a feast I came away from this having maybe chewed away a quarter of that feast if possible. 01:01:03.76 Sam It's still a lot is not just enough. It's a lot. East I Wait for this having. 01:01:18.19 Cameron I'm going to have to go back in and dive in eventually and watch it again like add as high quality as I can with as high quality sound as I can the promise I don't want to do that for at least 2 I want to give myself a recovery period. Yeah i. 01:01:23.40 Sam 5 the. 01:01:31.27 Sam Ah, as I mentioned to you before we started recording I watched what I now know is part one of this which is like the first 25 minutes of the film. Um, which is probably the most ah fleshy hellscape. 01:01:38.77 Cameron Yeah, this yeah yeah, which is. 01:01:48.32 Cameron Yeah, oh absolutely Yes, so um, took a breather. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:01:49.70 Sam Part the the first 25 minutes and then I stopped um because I could not continue and then picked it up later. Um I don't generally recommend doing that with any movie. Ah including this one. But. 01:02:06.21 Cameron Yeah. 01:02:08.17 Sam It's it's yeah, it's definitely something that ah over overpowers If you're not expecting if you don't if you don't know what to expect? Yeah have we I guess so we've described a lot of bits. Yeah. 01:02:14.37 Cameron Um, yeah, yeah, go go into this prepared. Yeah, we've given you a taste of what to expect? you know, like like the the mildest taste. 01:02:25.27 Cameron Like the the problem with this being a purely audio medium is we can't get like a little whiteboard and just start drawing terrible things on it and holding it up to the screen but probably for the best because that's the thing is like I said I don't know that we can so. 01:02:31.16 Sam For the best probably for the. 01:02:41.20 Cameron Boil this because it is the experience that matters we can perhaps help prepare you for the experience by what we've done. We've talked about themes. We've talked about potential meaning we've described in as good a manner as I think the English human tongue can. 01:02:43.23 Sam Fear that we can perhaps self prepare experience. Talk about. 01:02:59.63 Cameron What's sort of going on in some of the more affecting scenes. But yeah, don't eat anything while watching absolutely not this is ah this is a have something to eat wait half an hour have some water with you and then sit down and take it in. 01:03:02.29 Sam Or oh ah, don't eat anything while while while you're watching this? No yeah. 01:03:19.13 Cameron If you have to pause it give yourself like a 5 minute mental health break. Yeah yeah. 01:03:21.92 Sam Exactly that's exactly it I was speaking with a friend last night and they were watching it as like a horror movie night with with a couple of friends. 01:03:33.50 Cameron Watch 9 okay, and. 01:03:37.70 Sam And yeah, know that most of the pizza that they'd got went entirely uneaten. Ah just sort of stopped in the first 15 minutes and didn't get touched. 01:03:39.81 Cameron Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is that like the the first five minutes are fine, eat them. Don't eat after that like the first five minutes where you descend like through like that you got your shadow play and then you start the descent. 01:03:54.49 Sam Ah see. 01:04:04.62 Cameron Into what I think is like the terminator world. Potentially it's it's all those like century turrets and nothing nothing Human Yeah, but then it goes further down and I did. 01:04:08.98 Sam Yeah, there is that isn't there. Yeah yeah, yeah, further down. 01:04:18.24 Cameron I Do want to measure I do realize this opening bit where it goes down because there's the waste of like the post apocalyptic sci-fi future and it goes down through like broken society and then it goes down through a cavern of dinosaur bones and and down into a yes into a cave of myth. 01:04:28.42 Sam Um, and then beyond that a colossal ammonite and then pass that and I yeah so yes strength oh. 01:04:37.56 Cameron Because it's filled with sculptures of gods and monsters and this has some fun easter eggs in it which is what I wanted to mention. First off there is the cyclops from I believe from Jason the Argonauts was it? Yeah yeah, one of 1 of the statues is the cyclops from Jason the Argonauts in. 01:04:47.70 Sam Yes, to oh really? yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, so that makes me happy I didn't I didn't spot that nice. 01:04:57.46 Cameron In yeah in in ah in one of the scenes of the robotic era. There is our Robbie the robot and there's also e d Two zero nine from robocop just sort of hit in the background when when you get the mental fortitude to watch it again like it's it's all in that sort of early section. 01:05:05.75 Sam Damn it I'm really annoyed I didn't see those. 01:05:16.40 Cameron There's a bunch like little stop motion animation hints and Easter eggs hidden around. It's really great. Yeah yeah, um. 01:05:19.80 Sam Yeah, yeah, that that whole scene is like what less 6 seconds long with with that terer. Oh actually terracotta warrior that there's another scene later in near the end with ah with a bunch of terocotta warriors I wonder if it's a callback or if it's the. The same area. 01:05:36.29 Cameron Um, ah might be it might be the same zone because yeah, no, ah yeah, you are right? It is there? Um, but yeah this this is such a fantastic film I don't know. 01:05:49.61 Cameron How it got made in terms of like I understand the the yeah yeah, absolutely like like roboop 2 happened Phil tip. It started working on this because I I checked the time load production and then Jurassic Park happened Phil Tippe went okay I just 01:05:50.72 Sam It is a miracle that it happened at all. You're absolutely right. 01:06:02.76 Sam And it address us. Okay. 01:06:07.80 Cameron I've worked on or I've watched Jurassic Park I think Stopmotion might be dead and then like ten or twenty years later someone and hey Phil you remember that like little preview of a stop motion hellscaping show me? How's that coming along. It's like oh you still want to see that's like okay I guess we're doing this now get get this shovels out. We're gonna dig up what's left of mad god and then. 01:06:10.10 Sam So much like and what is. 01:06:21.31 Sam I Guess so. 01:06:27.70 Cameron Then covid happened and we worked through that to release this like ah a lot lot of people call it Phil tip it's magnum opus probably is like I can't see anything surpassing the level of effort. 01:06:32.68 Sam Like ah to his back. 01:06:44.80 Sam I not just Phil Tiffett's magnum opus I would probably say the magnum ops of the medium itself. It's every I've I've seen so many I'm a massive fan of claymation and Stopmotion in general. 01:06:45.87 Cameron And sheer will put into this. But yes, oh yeah, stop motion will never look this good again. So yeah, yeah. 01:07:02.92 Sam And ah, most of ah most of climation and stop motion is short ah by due due to constraints of the medium because it takes a long hours time to do this but but also because for the same reason. 01:07:10.20 Cameron Is yes. 01:07:15.97 Cameron Business And oh yeah. 01:07:22.23 Sam Why most of the best science fiction is short stories rather than longer format is because the best fiction is often delivered in small parcels and there's so many ah short claimation stop motion films that just. 01:07:24.64 Cameron Section. 01:07:31.37 Cameron Policies and bring in. Yeah, yeah, give me that I can we have that? Yeah,. It's so much. Thank! thank. 01:07:40.28 Sam You wanting so much more like you just you just see this minute and a half thing as I want a Netflix series out of that. Um, and and now we have a full movie of it and I had to stop at 20 minutes in because oh my god I can't take any more. 01:07:56.64 Cameron They fit so much into it that you can't digest it all the onces you need to take those minire I mean I pause it a few times so get up and go walk around for a minute go I Just need to breathe out I felt I felt like I was holding my breath for the entire film. 01:08:05.29 Sam Yeah, yeah, yeah, well anxiety attack the movie. Yeah I agree honestly. 01:08:14.69 Cameron Yeah, yeah, but yeah I agree like honestly this might be the culmination of stop motion as a medium I could see that like so certainly in terms of pushing art through stop motion like the again level of detail attention. Um attention to like. Flow things. It all flows almost seamlessly. It's got that occasional little. Yeah more Yeah, very. 01:08:34.46 Sam it's it's it's not just one person's ah ah, vision of how a storyboard should be pushed forward. It's very very clearly had more than a few people guide from 1 scene to the next in a very natural way. Yeah. 01:08:50.61 Cameron Yeah, yeah, it's it's incredibly well put together like in every single aspect. Maybe they didn't have to use the monkey screen for 5 different puppet types. But honestly it felt like a little callback by the third time I was okay with it. Um. 01:08:53.50 Sam Yeah, maybe they do the. 01:09:08.11 Sam Um. 01:09:08.13 Cameron Um, but it is yeah it pushes the medium itself so much further than I think anyone thought it could because again after Jurassic Park who really worked on stopmotion animation. It was a lot of small indie stuff and it was like Wallace and grommet and a couple of other projects. 01:09:21.92 Sam Yeah Nick Admin studios did a few few things but even even ardmin productions after their warehouse fire sort of pivoted to computer animation and drawn. 01:09:26.93 Cameron But most most people gave up on it. Yeah, um, yeah, yeah, it's just easier. You know? yeah. 01:09:40.49 Sam Well yeah, that's in terms of time spent Yes, like. 01:09:45.90 Cameron But that there's nothing else like stop motion like it in the field like this is the smoothest stop motion. There is it still feels so genuine and real and it is the fact that it is a physical medium that they're working with I think like you um I'll be. 01:09:57.55 Sam Definitely what I think. 01:10:03.14 Sam Subscribe. 01:10:03.28 Cameron Um, the albatross on the cross here saying like you'll never quite get there with cgi. It's never going to be that level of perfect just because it's not a real physical thing. We'll never ah, we'll get there eventually. It has its moments but like yeah. 01:10:12.15 Sam There's it. It has moments I will probably say that about maybe a third of the scenes of the of the dragons in game of thrones. Ah I will probably yeah, there's a. 01:10:23.97 Cameron Um, really hit that height. 01:10:27.80 Sam There's a solidity to some of those guys that you you don't see in almost any other cgi productions but apart from that sort of like ah moment like oh my God standing ovation. Well-done guys apart apart from those sorts of moments. 01:10:28.23 Cameron Yeah. Yes, it was all of the money. Yeah, as ah, yeah, was. 01:10:46.61 Sam As a whole I completely agree cgi gets almost all the way there and delivers a Wow factor but it doesn't deliver the ah there's there's ah, there's a human element that just gets down into your spine. 01:10:51.39 Cameron Yeah. 01:10:59.30 Cameron Yes, yeah, there's something about having something physically there that if you're if you're doing like a most of the live action thing something you can reach out and touch if you're doing stop motion something that bounces light realistically because it's real. 01:11:03.73 Sam That any like cluster some xs. 01:11:14.69 Sam Why? Ah the the yeah lighting I wanted to talk about that as well that every every single scene in this entire movie is so well lit. 01:11:15.28 Cameron And that you know you can still control the elements of lighting and stuff like that. Yeah lighting is so Good. Yes, every. This time is so. 01:11:28.78 Sam Ah, like yeah every frame is a painting is is a is a saying like but like ah. 01:11:31.40 Cameron Yes, oh yeah, you could take almost any frame of this and it would be a cover for like ah a Russian Post-grunge metal album cover or something like that like it's got that level of dirt that level of detail like. 01:11:46.99 Sam Just the the use of color the the use of shadow the it's it and it it changes from scene to scene. Um, but still maintains like ah, a artistic singular point of view. 01:11:48.20 Cameron Yeah, and color. Yes, and. 01:12:02.25 Cameron Single yeah. 01:12:04.49 Sam Ah, throughout the whole thing but but still changes from scene to scene. It's ah it's really remarkable I'm not saying that there's like different flavors for for each scene but they they definitely work with light and color. 01:12:07.24 Cameron From since yeah yeah. 01:12:16.67 Cameron No, no, no what? yes something there's only so much you can save with the human words that we have to use here. 01:12:23.20 Sam To convey something I don't want to I hate sounding so vague. But that's what this movie is ah. 01:12:36.52 Cameron Like I Yeah I think I think that is the great success here. It is so deeply experiential that it's hard to properly describe because you just have to sort of sit there and let the monkey part of your brain go This is the thing that evolution never prepared me for It. I Don't know how to feel about this but I'm feeling something something's brewing inside me but just alongside the anxiety something's in there. It's it's incredible I think I think we've started circle the drain of just saying this is really Good. So I think we probably don't have much more to say about this. 01:12:55.20 Sam Ah, oh. 01:12:59.20 Sam Sorry, definitely. 01:13:06.93 Sam Saying that's. 01:13:13.10 Cameron Go watch it if you've listened to all of this know this we haven't really spoiled you. This is so worth watching. Please go watch it. It's it's incredible. Yes. 01:13:18.80 Sam It is just out of this world. It is way more than you could ever expect. It's it's way more than most people be able to take be be careful with who you talk about it with or recommend it to because. 01:13:27.98 Cameron Yeah, yeah, told that humans. Yeah. 01:13:35.75 Sam That some people look at you very strangely afterwards. 01:13:39.32 Cameron Yeah, yeah, absolutely all right? Ah yeah, all right? and with that it's over to our administration Twitter is still alive I'm not sure how or why. But it's still holding on so for the time being you can find the show on Twitter at Mon Underscore demonster um you can find myself primarily on Twitter at night underscore Twitter and that's night without a k. Come for photos of my cat and me talking about it getting hot in Australia again because Sam it's starting to warm up again. It really is I've been sitting here under the air condition of the whole record and just doing my best um you can find Dave. 01:14:12.87 Sam And it really is. 01:14:25.59 Cameron On Twitter for the time being an centino underscore plus he always has that in the show notes you you know I'm not going to spell out for you and you can find Leonard ah on Twitter at Dr Faust is dead. You can find his productions at Umbra Andnox productions he's working on some pretty cool stuff. Go check that out. He will. Not love you personally for it but he'll appreciateate the attention and it's it's a good name for production right? guys got style um Sam is not super active on the internet which is probably the correct choice to make in our life as. 01:14:46.90 Sam Umbranox, What a wonderful name? um. 01:14:55.57 Sam As someone that's involved in computers and security in general I don't do much with the socials. So. 01:15:03.46 Cameron That's fair so you can perhaps sometime in the future find him on this podcast again. But otherwise you're out of luck. He's all mine I'm sorry I get to see him every Tuesday and it's lovely. Ah, so we'll wrap up there. Thank you so much for listening. 01:15:11.42 Sam Um. 01:15:19.72 Cameron Go watch Mad God Give Phil tip and his money. Yeah, why we can't words words everywhere words everywhere? Um, right? Yeah, thank you for listening. 01:15:20.24 Sam And yeah, and then try and explain it to someone and understand why we've just been circling weird weird and just words just word soup. Yeah. 01:15:39.00 Cameron Um, and we'll catch you on the next episode goodbye Everyone and. 01:15:41.70 Sam Good evening.