Fr Craig:
Welcome to Men of the Hearts, a monthly podcast from the Archdiocese of Detroit office of priestly vocations. Join me, your host Fr Craig Giera,

Fr David:
and me, Fr David Pellican,

Fr Craig:
As we explore the priesthood, hear vocation stories from priests all over the archdiocese, and answer questions about discerning a priestly vocation tune in every month to wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more at detroitpriestlyvocations.com. Well, welcome everybody. To another episode of Men of the Hearts podcast. Today we have on two very special guests to the show. They are brother priests, and yes, all priests are brothers, but these are brothers from the same mother, both were called to the priesthood and both said yes to God's wonderful invitation. However, one ended up in the diocese of Lansing while the other serves here in the Archdiocese of Detroit. And one was our own Fr David's classmates. So we might have hear some really good stories later on as well. So welcome Fr Zach and Fr Drew to the show. How are you today?

Fr Zach:
Thank you. Doing well. Good to be with you guys.

Fr Drew:
Good to be here. Yeah, doing well, thanks for having us.

Fr Craig:
As always, we have Fr David at my side. How it goes it for you?

Fr David:
It goes well over here, Fr Craig. It's it's good to be here. Good to be with Fr Zach and Fr Drew. And yeah.

Fr Craig:
It's always great to have you here, Fr David, just sit next to me with a smile on your face just puts everybody at ease. I think because you're in the room here, these guys are feeling great. So it's wonderful to have you here today.

Fr David:
Oh, thank you.

Fr Craig:
So Fr Zach and Fr Drew, before we get into your vocation stories, it'd be great to just tell us a blessing that happened to you in the last month or so--anything going on?

Fr Drew:
You want to take this away? Or you want me to go?

Fr Zach:
Sure. Yeah. Well, I'm going to be teaching here at the seminary this fall at Sacred Heart. So I've been living here for a bit now, but I've kind of come back. I've got things in pretty good order for the fall for teaching philosophy and working with the guys here in the program and formation, some I'm happy and I'm grateful that all that's coming together pretty gracefully.

Fr Craig:
Awesome. And you're finishing up a thesis, right?

Fr Zach:
I am. Yeah. I'm finishing up my philosophy doctorate in the meantime as well. So I--and I've got a, I've got a full draft of that in too. So there, there shouldn't be too much more work to do with that.

Fr Craig:
So you just do that on your spare time, like in the afternoons?

Fr Zach:
Basically touching it up at this point will be a kind of spare time project.

Fr Craig:
What's your topic?

Fr Zach:
The general topic I'm writing on is this issue of scientism. A lot of people call it. So in other words, like how you can get into philosophical problems, if you kind of overextend scientific explanations of things or scientific models of rationality. So I'm trying to kind of look at some people who are more sympathetic to that way of thinking and critique them a bit.

Fr Craig:
Sounds good. Are you ready to teach? Have you taught before?

Fr Zach:
I am, this is my first go at it, or at least at this level. So I'm excited for it. Yeah. I'm teaching philosophy of nature this fall, which think will be a good fit, and it kind of dovetails with what I'm writing and yeah. Yeah. I'm excited for the opportunity. Awesome.

Fr Craig:
Awesome. And where do you buy your socks? Most people don't know this, but Fr Zach always has on cool socks, except for today.

Fr Zach:
Today I just happened--every seven to 10 days, I'll just wear a plain pair of black socks. And today I happened to do that. I I, I mean, I have a few different sources. One, one place I've come to get a lot of my, of my socks. And sometimes shoes is there's this outfit called oddball.com that basically socks and shoes for guys with large feet. And I'm about a size 16. So I've tended to get a lot of my socks there because you know, a lot of socks they'll, they'll go for the, you know, they'll have them for like sizes nine to 12 or 12 to 15, but oddball is one of these few places that has like a 14 to 17 size range. Yeah. Perfect. Perfect, for me.

Fr Craig:
So I thought if our listeners don't know, cause they don't have a visual here, Fr Zach is six, nine?

Fr Zach:
Yeah. I'm about six foot nine. Yeah.

Fr Craig:
And what shoe size do you wear?

Fr Zach:
So, 16.

Fr Craig:
16! That's a, that's a big foot.

Fr Zach:
It is. Yes. And it can be tricky to find stuff sometimes, you know, shoes, clothes, et cetera when you're this big. But I think the nice thing too is that you know your, your option pool is more limited. So yeah. You know, you, you you're sometimes not as overwhelmed by options as other people would be, you know, you sort of have your select places you can go and you know.

Fr Craig:
You found the place to get the coolest things.

Fr Zach:
Yeah. They're, they're pretty good for socks for me. So.

Fr Craig:
I'll have to check them out. So Fr Drew, why did you become so small? You're not as tall as your brother. What happened there?

Fr Drew:
Who knows only God knows. Yeah. Yeah. I I always remember is we grew up, even watching him play baseball. I remember in little league, he just looked like he was in the wrong age group, you know, it was always sad and he was always really good too, but he just, I was like, who is this tall like guy who just looks like he's like three years or three seasons ahead of everybody else that we're playing with. But yeah, it worked out for him. I don't know where the hype came, I think from our dad's side a little bit. Perhaps so, but yeah, I, I landed more on the on the shorter side you could say, although I think I'm average, I'm like six one ish and then I have a, I think I'm at a size 11. So there you go. Yeah. I think that's pretty standard.

Fr Craig:
Well I'm at five, six, so your brother is a whole head taller than me. Literally.

Fr Drew:
We have these great stories when we real really little where he would we'd be, you know, kind of wrestling around or whatever. And he would always--sometimes I had, we, you know, chase each other and we were really little kids and I remember going up the stairs and because he was so tall, he would just fall forward and reach and like grab my foot and just yet. So he always won in the end somehow. I always felt a little outclassed.

Fr Craig:
Yeah. So what's what's been a blessing in your life? I know you are dropped into learning Spanish really, really quickly here?

Fr Drew:
Si senor. Yeah. I just landed, was, had the pleasure of being at St. John Fisher for a year with Fr Dan Jones. Who's one of our beloved blessed and memory, one of our beloved faculty here. So it was with him for the year until he went to be with the Lord. And then I guess got sent to St. Max--or St. Maximilian Kolbe, wrong, wrong saint, St. Damien of Molokai. I think of them too often because I love them both, but so I'm over at St. Damien's in Pontiac and I'm cur--excuse me, currently learning Spanish, which is been a fun experience. My Spanish is pretty..pretty much struggle bus, but it's it's going, and it's been a, it's been a delight. Everybody's been super graceful and just gracious to me as I've kind of tried to learn and get through it, and I think I've been making good progress and Fr Jake's been wonderful. I think one of the graces so far I would say is just really being kind of stretched out of my comfort level. And as a priest, I think maybe just you, oftentimes, you, you want to give yourself in terms of just offering, being able to speak to people and offer what's on your heart from the Lord to them. And especially as, you know, you offer the sacraments and whatnot and sometimes with the language barrier, it's difficult to do that. So it's, it's really just like I think just knowing that they really just need Jesus and his love and I can still, I can still manifest that and give that as a priest, even if I don't, I can't give him everything that I want to give them, because I don't know the, I don't know how to say it sometimes in the language. So it's just been a real kind of grace of, I think just learning how to be kind of in some ways poor and just like learning how to be like a little, little kid again, almost, and kind of like learn how to step into the language so that I can actually be a better use to them. So it's been a more, a more deeper reliance upon God you could say, which has been really good. So yeah.

Fr Craig:
When you're preaching, do like little kids laugh at you or something like that? I mean, they have no filter.

Fr Drew:
They went--it was a classic, like two weeks ago, I started my homily and I had, I had kind of translated it a bit quickly that weekend you could say. And my first line was supposed to be a statement and I remember reading it in Spanish and then like a bunch of people responded and I was like, wait a second. That's not right. You shouldn't be responding. So apparently it didn't translate quite right. Yeah. So now there's, there's plenty of those moments in which case I think people yeah, find me a bit, you know a bit hilarious, but anyways, it's good for me, so, and it's good for them hopefully.

Fr David:
Fr Drew and I went to Mexico together several years ago in seminary. And so yeah, I can attest to, it's probably stretching you a little bit.

Fr Drew:
I don't think anybody would have thought when we were in Mexico, that I would be the guy of the class, like kind of venturing out into, into a parish where Spanish is kind of the primary language.

Fr Craig:
Like they didn't have a class for you at the language school. You were so bad at it, right?

Fr Drew:
This is actually true! Fr David can attest this, I think I drifted backwards throughout the time.

Fr David:
Fr Drew and I started out in kind of the remedial Spanish class you might say. And then by the end, Fr Drew was in a class of his own.

Fr Drew:
I am certainly in a class my own very much by myself, but Hey, the, the Lord works in mysterious ways and.

Fr Craig:
I'm sure the people love you there and and God will work through you. So Fr David, what's been happening with you this month? What what blessings have you received?

Fr David:
Oh boy. Well, a big blessing at Divine Child was actually the, the students coming back. Last week for me, we it's been a little quieter this summer, which was nice, got to get a little away on some vacation and such, but it was really cool to just see all the kids back for the first time yesterday. They brought a lot of bring a lot of energy to the campus. And so yeah, that's just been a blessing to, to be with them, interact with them. Yeah.

Fr Craig:
Yeah. I was walking the track yesterday morning and watching the parents take pictures of their kids on the first day of school. Oh yeah. It was so nice. It was so picturesque and you celebrated a birthday, right?

Fr David:
I sure did. Yup.

Fr Craig:
Yup. Are you still the youngest priest in archdiocese?

Fr David:
I was, I'm still the youngest priest in the Archdiocese of Detroit and yes, Fr Drew came came and celebrated with us, with me and a few others for my birthday. So it was very--it was good to get to hang, hang out with you guys. It's going to be there.

Fr Craig:
Hmm. Cool. Watch him get older. Yeah, for me, I didn't do much this, this month I just sat at this table waiting for this next episode to start.

Fr David:
That's it really?

Fr Craig:
No. We had a, the summer seminar with the archbishop and the archbishop calls back all of the seminarians to spend three days with him at a retreat center. And it's not a retreat. It's just a time for all of us to get back together because everybody goes to different ministries throughout the summer because when you're a seminary and you just don't have your summers free, you actually have different assignments to do, and some guys go to the holy land, language, school, go to different parishes IPF, which is something else we can talk about later on all these different, wonderful things. So to come back and to spend time with each other and just kind of just catch up, but then also to see the archbishop and talk to him and he comes alive really because what he does is he teaches. So he'll have some type of a thing that he'll print out of, of different readings. It's funny because we only get through a page. He might print off like a hundred pages, but we only get off the page because we get stuck on a, on a paragraph. But that's how wonderful it is. It's really cool. The first time I was the class that started it it was my last year in the seminary and he wanted us all to purchase a book. Well, by the time we were all trying to purchase it on Amazon, by the end of that seminar, the book was like $500 because it was such an--it's like no one could buy it, so the demand went up. So it was a great time to be with the guys and, and to see the archbishop in rare form. He's, he's a really great teacher, but he's really funny as well. For those of them, you don't really know him very well. He's really funny. So it was just a great time to be a part of that. And so it's good to have school starting again here, the seminarians coming back to the seminary and this building is a little bit more full now. So I'm looking forward to that.

Fr David:
And Fr Craig, didn't, didn't I hear the archbishop had a movie recommendation for the guys this time?

Fr Craig:
Yeah. we watched a, "High Noon," an older, older movie. It's pretty cool. And it kind of talked about courage and yeah, it wasn't the coolest of movies, but it was good. It had Lloyd Bridges in it. And all I remember Lloyd Bridges from is the movie "Airplane," and I mentioned something to the seminarians and they all looked at me like I was you know, like crazy because of course everybody's younger and had never seen the movie "Airplane" before.

Fr Drew:
Or the hot shots movies from the early, early to mid nineties.

Fr Craig:
Yeah. Yeah.

Fr Drew:
So, so did you paint this Fr Craig? No, I did not. We have this cool depiction kind of vintage depiction of the city of Detroit with a nice like hand painting or hand painted the spirit moves Detroit. It's like, anyways, I'm just observing the studio. Yeah. Pretty sweet.

Fr David:
Now Fr Craig, if they do want to see you with this background, is there any way they could do that?

Fr Craig:
They can go to detroitpriestlyvocations.com and see different videos about discernment, and that would be some great thing to do. And you can see exactly what Fr Drew's talking about.

Fr Drew:
You should, it's worth a look.

Fr Craig:
Yeah. Well, let's get into your vocation stories. I want to let you each have time to speak how you want to speak about it. So Fr Zach, how about you you start off the story.

Fr Zach:
Sure. Yeah. So I was, I was ordained in 2015. I'm a priest of the Lansing diocese. So we--so I'll probably say some things that'll fill in aspects of, of Drew's story too. So we were brought up Lutheran, so we're, we're, you know, it's just the two of us in our family,

Fr Craig:
That are Catholic still?

Fr Zach:
So no, we're, we're the, we're the only two siblings. So it's, it's just the two of us, you know, and our parents and the two of us. My, our parents are both from central Ohio originally Mansfield, Ohio. I was born in Toledo. They were living there when I was born shortly after I was born, we moved to Atlanta, Georgia. And so I grew up there basically till, basically till I was starting high school and drew was born there. But yeah, we were brought up Lutheran, you know, kind of fairly typical, I suppose, kind of suburban American family. We were fairly regular churchgoers. I mean, I think we would go sort of, you know, most weekends for a good portion of our childhood. You know, I went through like a, kind of a Lutheran confirmation program when I was in seventh or eighth grade.

Fr Craig:
Is it considered sinful to miss a Sunday liturgy in the Lutheran?

Fr Zach:
I, you know, it, it might, I mean, if you sort of look what's on the books, it might be, but it, I, I don't think it's the kind of thing that, that people would really talk about much. Like there, there wouldn't be a, like, you know, there wouldn't be kind of a sense that it's like a, a grave sin or a mortal sin or something like that. You know what I mean? That, you know, it would sort of be frowned upon, but I don't think they would sort of talk about it and in sort of sinful terms, the way that, the way that we might. Yeah. So so we did that. And then basically when I was starting high school, we moved again from Atlanta back to Ohio with my dad's job and, you know kind of started experimenting with a new church in the area and we moved and I think we did one of those things that a lot of families do where, you know, you, you move, you find a new church, it doesn't quite suit your needs in the same way, and you just kind of, as a matter of convenience, stopped going regularly. So that's kind of what happened with us more or less, you know? So we weren't really practicing as Lutherans anymore. Once I was in high school my parents kind of liked Catholic schools. I mean, they thought they thought Catholic schools were sort of a cut above the rest. So they wanted us to attend those. So they, they put me in an all boys Jesuit high school St. John's it's called in Toledo. So if people know about, you know, U of D Jesuit in Detroit, for instance, it's a kind of counterpart to that. So they had me go there and you know, I did my four years there was active in a lot of things, you know, played basketball, did campus ministry and Christian service stuff, would go on the retreats. You know, all the kind of usual clubs, organizations, all the rest of it had a good time. There had a very good four years there. I got to know--there were a couple older Jesuits there who I got to know in a particular way and who were kind of mentor figures to me. Fr Pat Hussey, God rest his soul. He died maybe 10 or 15 years ago. And then Fr Frank Canfield, who is at the Columbia center at the Jesuit residence there nowadays. He's, I think he's in his mid to late eighties and his, his health is not in, in, in great shape.

Fr Craig:
That's basically their retirement home.

Fr Zach:
Yeah, exactly. It's a retreat center, but it's also a big retirement facility for the Jesuits, but yeah, Fr Frank and Fr Canfield was was in particular a big influence upon me. He ran a, he ran a group kind of a small group for guys who had transferred into the school, which I had. And so I got to know him in that setting. And then I just kind of, yeah. Got to know him more and, you know would seek out his counsel and, you know, just go talk to them in different ways. So anyway, so I left St. John's, I finished there in 2002 and I came to university of Michigan for, for my undergraduate studies and in Ann Arbor. And I think I, you know, I entered with a sense that I still wanted to practice my faith in, in a key way. You know, like I said, I hadn't been a regular church goer in, in high school, but.

Fr Craig:
Did they have school masses?

Fr Zach:
Yeah, I would go to the school masses and they--I did a lot of like Christian service kind of work with the poor stuff when they would invite us to do projects like that, and I would go on the retreats and I would help out with different kind of spiritual things at the school, you know? So I, I really liked that dimension of things. And I had this sense that when I got to college, I wanted to keep up with my faith in a key way. But I wasn't sure how I wanted to do it. Exactly. And so first year I was there, I, I ended up going to a Bible study with Campus Crusade for Christ, you know, which is kind of the big evangelical campus organization. I had a pretty good go with that, but it just, there was something about it that didn't quite sort of stick with me or, or meet kind of the, the hopes I had for a group like that. So I kind of did the one year and then just was looking for something different. So it came back my sophomore year kind of touched base with a few different Christian groups on campus. Ended up getting in touch with this group called university Christian outreach or UCO that is, is kind of ecumenical and its mission. So there are Protestants, Catholics Orthodox others involved in it though it's, it's largely Catholic in its makeup and it kind of grew out of the charismatic renewal and in Ann Arbor back in the sixties and seventies. So I ended up getting in touch with them and just it was kind of a really good fit for me and I, I got involved with them and was doing kind of a small group, like a men's group with them and, and you know, active in their meetings, their prayer meetings and different things and sort of formation and teaching they were doing. And so just got, got very well connected and integrated with UCO over the next few years. At the same time I decided I wanted to study philosophy. So I was doing that. And really just really enjoyed that. I mean, I just really took to it in a particular way. I liked the, the topics we were discussing, the authors are reading the kind of approach to asking questions and thinking them through and that sort of thing. And I think studying philosophy and really developing an interest in that got me more interested in theology as well, and kind of the, the, the Christian intellectual tradition of philosophy and theology and, you know, the way those things sort of held together had developed through the centuries. So I got kind of more, all that is to say I got, I was kind of exploring my faith at a deeper intellectual level, as well as kind of getting involved with it more practically through UCO. And, you know, as time went on, I realized like, you know, I hadn't been I hadn't been a regular Lutheran at this point for at least sort of five or six years. And especially since I was studying philosophy, you know, I had a little bit more of this impulse to kind of, well, I kind of want to think this through, on my own. I don't want to just kind of do what I happened to have been raised with. So I kind of took that approach to things. And again, I had a number of these good friends who were Catholic and so on and so forth. So things kind of added up and I just got more and more fascinated with and interested in the Catholic faith. And you know was kind of more engaged by the whole kind of, you know, Aristotelian, to mystic, to kind of Scholastic tradition. And, you know, it was reading some people like Newman, and

Fr Craig:
There were some $5 words there.

Fr Craig:
Yeah.

Fr Craig:
You want to explain to everybody what Aristotelian means and all that?

Fr Zach:
Kind of the whole tradition of thinking that kind of grew out of Aristotle. And that was kind of developed by Thomas Aquinas and some of the other, you know, Scholastic.

Fr Craig:
Socrates?

Fr Zach:
Yes, and you know philosophers and theologians,

Fr Craig:
You would say, then you had more of a head knowledge of the Lord and then came to him a little bit more that way?

Fr Zach:
Well, I'd say the two kind of the two kind of came together for me. I mean, I, because there was this more kind of engaged experiential side of things that, that I was fostering through a lot of these friendships and connections I was making in UCO, but then there was also the kind of headier side, if you will, that was coming through the studies where I was just really finding myself kind of engaged with yeah. A lot of these more kind of intellectual issues pertaining to the faith and the, you know, the authority of the church and a number of different questions like that. So yeah, I kind of just grew more fascinated with like the Catholic tradition, the Catholic intellectual tradition, and, you know, after a while on a number of these fronts, I, I, I kind of just came to the thought that, like, I think I would rather be Catholic than anything else, you know, and I think I kind of agree with what the church has to say on some, some key and crucial points. And so I decided to go through RCIA, my senior year of college. So I did that there in Ann Arbor at St. Thomas, the apostle church in Ann Arbor. And there were a couple of good young priests there at the time who I got to know and Fr Jeff Njus and Fr Chas Canoy. And they, yeah, they just kind of welcomed me into things and I got to know them well, and, you know, a number of the other folks who were in the area there. And I think it was like when I was going through RCIA that, and, you know, getting to know them better and so on that, I just thought like, you know, gosh, I could, I could see myself doing this, you know, that is doing what they do. And it just, it hit me pretty squarely. Like, yeah, I could, I could on a number of different levels. I could, I could see myself being a priest like them. I mean, you know, I like to pray, I like to study, I like to work with people who were in need. I, you know, and there were a whole set of fronts where I thought, yeah, I could just see this working. And so I--the idea kind of hit me at first. And then I, you know, I, I was brought into the church. I was confirmed and you know kept thinking about it started to pray about it more and things just kind of blossomed from there. And so then I, I worked for a couple years after graduating, I should work at a Catholic school in Ann Arbor Spiritus Sanctus Academy run by the Dominican sisters there because they ask you to wait a couple of years, if you've entered the church to go to seminary, so I worked there for a couple of years, did a little bit of evening and weekend work with UCO, helped them out, and things were still strong and, you know, going heading in that direction. And so I, yeah, I entered seminary and in fall of 2008 after a couple of years after I graduated college and the rest is history.

Fr Craig:
So what did your parents think? I mean, are they still Lutheran or?

Fr Zach:
Well, so interestingly,

Fr Craig:
I see Fr Drew smiling here.

Fr Zach:
My, our mom you know, when I was going, you know, planning to begin, RCIA had been living at home that summer just kind of living and hanging out and working before my senior year of college. So I had ended up talking to her a lot about kind of where, where things were headed and what I was thinking. And so, and at some point I invited her just to to, to come give the RCIA program a try with me, cause I thought, well, you know, this, this might be something you'd like, it might be a neat way to kind of get involved with church going again, etcetera. So I, I offered her to join me in the program and she, she did. So she went along and she actually ended up becoming Catholic as well. My dad, our dad is still kind of, I guess, effectively a non-practicing Lutheran. But, but you know, he, he, he prays and I think he's got a kind of lively faith in his own right.

Fr Craig:
Did he support you or was it was like, this is crazy, it's crazy you're going to go to the seminary.

Fr Zach:
I mean, they were, they were surprised when I told them at first then they, I mean, I think they kind of weighed in and were sorta like, well, you know, we think it'd be good if you maybe wait a little bit longer, tried a few more things for stated a few more people first, but, you know, it was one of those things where I just, I thought the moment, the time was really right, you know, and there was kind of a grace, if you will to do it, to, to give it a go. And I, and I told them, you know, I just thought like, well, I really didn't think sort of in good conscience, I could just you know stall it just for the sake of stalling. It, you know, it really, it really seemed as though things were, were primed for me to, for me to make that move then at that juncture, you know? And and so I did. And so ever, you know once I told them that, that I was going to do it, that I was going to go ahead with it, I mean, they were very, they were very supportive the whole way through, you know, and they've continued to be.

Fr Craig:
Yeah. So were your parents living in Toledo at the time?

Fr Zach:
Well, they had actually moved up to Michigan, so that was a subsequent step. So they lived where they live now kind of down by Saline, Milan, sort of just south of Ann Arbor. Okay. So they're, they're still in, you know, so we get to see

Fr Craig:
So the Lansing diocese made sense for you?

Fr Zach:
Well, yeah, so I entered the church in Ann Arbor, you know, and, and so the Lansing diocese was technically my home, you know, that's where our parents are too. And and so, yeah, that was kind of the obvious pick. And like I said, I had gotten to know some of the priests in the area there in Ann Arbor, and I got to know the vocations director who was Fr Jerry Vincke at the time. Now he's a Bishop, Bishop, Jerry Vincke of Salina, Kansas. Yeah. So I got to know him. And so yeah, again, sort of the rest is history.

Fr Craig:
So what, what did your brother think with all this going on when he's like, I got a follow my brother and do everything he does!

Fr Zach:
Well, he was kind of amidst, you know, a kind of journey of his own. And I don't, I don't know that I can tell you honestly sort of how he, how he initially reacted to my to my announcement, you know, my decision to do this.

Fr Craig:
Why don't you tell us now Fr Drew?

Fr Zach:
I'll let him jump in and take that.

Fr Drew:
When he, when he said he was going to seminary, well,

Fr Craig:
How did you feel about when he said he was going to become Catholic?

Fr Drew:
I don't think I cared at the time to be honest all that much. I thought like, oh, that's cool. You know, I think he, I think he expressed it to me. I watched this whole progression. I felt like when he was starting at University of Michigan, maybe as, maybe especially as second year, I feel like, I think the first year we were still living in Ohio as a family and I didn't get to see him quite as much. And I know he was kind of just getting used to college, but I think his second year members of seeing this change kind of happened slowly in him where he just seemed like suddenly he would, he would, you know, he'd be praying and kind of doing the, just seeking the Lord and like, yeah, just things about him changed sometimes just like in the, the jokes or whatever we, we used to do. It's just like, things were just kind of changing. I was like, what is going on with you a little bit? It was kind of strange to watch and observe. And at the same time he really was kind of coming alive. It seemed like too. So there was like this whole shift that I would, I would kind of witness. So I remember it was in that I'm sure that he mentioned at some point after he had kind of had this encounter with the Lord in a basic sense and was involved in University Christian Outreach, that he kind of expressed he was going to enter the Catholic church. And at the time I was just like, well, that's cool. You know, that's great. You know, I was, I was kind of enamored still with motocross and other things. And this is a good thing for him and yeah, I don't think I really thought much about it.

Fr Craig:
Is it true that you were sponsored by Red Bull at the X games?

Fr Drew:
It's not true. I think the other podcast we did God bless that one made, made my, the motocross that I partook of my motocross days to make me to sound much more talented and gifted than I actually was. So I don't want to, it was nowhere near being sponsored by red bull or ever being in anything like the X games.

Fr Craig:
Did you make a jump--did you make a jump longer than a couple of feet?

Fr Drew:
I did. Yeah.

Fr Craig:
And that's already, that's already too much, so that's awesome.

Fr Drew:
Yeah, but he can, I mean, his basketball skills probably were more talented.

Fr Craig:
Just has to raise his arms. He doesn't have to do anything.

Fr Drew:
It doesn't hurt naturally. We've been training pretty hard in high school and like getting up for these early morning runs and all sorts of stuff.

Fr Craig:
Yeah. So you w you witnessed him become Catholic. Why did you go to the Easter Vigil and see him?

Fr Drew:
I don't think I did actually, unfortunately in my life. I don't think I would've seen that as all that important at the time. Just to be really honest. I do remember going to mass with him on a set of occasions after it kind of just, I think just high, like Christmas, Easter, he would, he did a real intentional job kind of just inviting us to certain things and, and my parents went and I just, yeah, I remember being kind of just taken by how, yeah, just kind of how faithful he had become, you know, he was really, he, wasn't just kind of, I wouldn't just not to use it to say it in a bad way, but he wasn't just kind of practicing. He seemed like he was like, the Lord had really kind of taken hold of him in a certain way. At least I could witness that, you know, and I didn't even know what to make of it, I think at the time, but that's kind of was the outside looking in. That's what I felt like. And so I think then I just would, I would kind of, yeah, I mean, he was always my big brother and we always got on pretty well, even though we, we had our fair share of fighting at times. But I would know he was always kind of a wise guy in terms of like, I'd seek him out for certain--I bounce things off of them, but I think especially as I kind of watched this happen in his life and he seemed like he was just praying a lot and, and I thought I would start to just kind of naturally ask him things, but my own life, I think. And so anyways, yeah.

Fr Craig:
So then how did you get led to the Catholic faith?

Fr Drew:
His sounds a lot more kind of smoother than mine. Probably.

Fr David:
I was, I was just thinking of that Fr Zach, because I was listening you, you almost seem like you just eased into the Catholic faith and the eased into the priesthood, I know some people it's, it's a bit more of like a dramatic--

Fr Drew:
He kind of eases into most things.

Fr Zach:
Some call me the big, easy, so, you know, I've got a bit of a persona to live up to.

Fr Craig:
You know, he's a cool character.

Fr Zach:
Yea, you know, just kind of ease into things.

Fr Craig:
That sounds good. Let's do that.

Fr Drew:
Yeah. Yeah, so ours was, I mean, I would just echo what he said. I think a lot of growing up, I remember we grew up practicing, you know, Lutherans, my, my mom's side of the family, especially, but my dad's side too, as he got older, both were Lutheran and were practicing and kind of took them to church.

Fr Craig:
So a lot of kids are like they're altar servers in the Catholic faith. Was there altar serving for Lutherans?

Fr Drew:
No. I mean, they, they might've, I mean, I think a lot of places would, would have that to a degree, but I, we never really did anything like that. Like I said, we were, we were sorta regular enough you know, for sort of the first sort of 13, 14 years of my life and, you know, the first sort of 10 of his, you know, we were regular regular enough.

Fr Craig:
What's the age difference?

Fr Zach:
Yeah. So three years. Yeah. So he--I just turned 37 this summer and

Fr Drew:
I just turned 34. So yeah, I believe yeah, so, so, you know, I think it was, it was mainly sort of fairly regular church going coupled with, you know, things like, like I was saying, you know, we did I did like like a confirmation program as a Lutheran and, you know, there were some things like that, that, that were part of the life, but but yeah, nothing, nothing. It wasn't like, sort of in the house, we were sort of particularly religious, you know but you know,

Fr Craig:
No praying before meals or anything?

Fr Drew:
No, I mean, we were, I always kind of deem us as like American Christians. We just kind of prayed before meals and, you know, that's the, we learned some very basic rudimentary elements of like, I would say Christian practice that my parents, I think just kind of our parents kind of handed on from what they picked up as kids. And I, you know, I think especially as grandma and grandpa would be around, that was just something we, especially when they were in town, I remember we would definitely go to church and--but yeah, much like, like Zach said here that I think as we hit, gosh, when we, I remember getting baptized in the Lutheran church or congregation when we were in Georgia, and then by the time we got to Ohio I was about 11 and we had, we went for a little while, but we never quite found a home church home and we just kind of fizzled out. But all the while, I mean, he was a little bit older down the road. We went to--we had gone to some Protestant church schools growing up in Georgia. And then when we got to the Midwest and we got up to Ohio, as he went to Jesuit high school, I went to a Catholic school. And so funny enough, we were probably around Catholic, the Catholic church more than maybe a lot of Catholic kids were, you know, in terms of schooling and stuff. Yeah. Even though we weren't Catholic, so we weren't really practicing, we weren't going to Lutheran church. I remember for a good stretch of years in middle school, high school, if we did, it was very sporadic once in a blue moon, but we were going to like mass at school on Thursdays, you know, and I remember just kind of looking up and I don't think I ever kind of grasped why, I mean, I think we just, I always saw our practice of being Christian in a basic sense. It's just kind of like what good people do, you know? And like in America, you know, and, and so I think we drifted away, it almost seemed like we didn't really lose a whole lot to me cause I don't think I ever really came to know God all that deeply from the beginning. And so it wasn't until we got to, you know, Ohio and kind of quit practicing, going to Catholic school. I do remember having--we had religious religion class and sweet lady who taught us, God bless her. And yeah, there was the faith then was at least explained a little more, but it was ex--I think it's, it felt like a lot of data to me or if like a lot of information, knowledge, things that you kind of ascent to, I don't ever remember hearing about, like, and it was probably told, I'm not saying that they didn't do a good job and just, I don't remember hearing this, like the sense that like the God of heaven, an earth who loves was so loves the world, like came to rescue us from sin and from death, you know? And so it just, wasn't very personal. And I remember going to mass and just kind of at various looking up, we had this crucifix in the church and knowing like that was central to why we're here, but I'm not really sure I could tell you why or what it really meant. You know, I have one memory of reading during mass, even though it wasn't Catholic and just feeling really nervous, getting up there and like trying to get all the pages right. And saying, doing the reading really, really fast and then being kind of nervous again and sitting down quickly. And and so, yeah, just drifting through a middle school. I mean, we, I had some familiarity with it. I know Zach did in high school, probably in a better sense than I did in middle school. But by the time I had gotten through Catholic, you know, part of grade school and middle school, I went off to a year of the same high school. He had gone to a Jesuit high school in Toledo. And I think the Lord was a bit more at the at the forefront you could say at the center, but I still didn't quite have a grasp of what Christianity meant for my life, or certainly what Catholicism meant for my life. And I was much more, he was really into basketball growing up and things like that. And I, I kind of did a lot of those things, but then he got really passionate about, as my parents would say, like, you just really love two wheels. So I always love like dirt bikes and motocross. And this became kind of my thing from a really young age. He can probably laugh. I remember in the backyard, he used to build jumps and little track we had and had ramps and all sorts of stuff. And it just fascinated me. I'd spend hours out there. And so this became kind of my thing that I felt like my life revolved around and what I found life in a way to kind of express myself. And so I guess I'm just kind of launching into my own story here. Is that all right?

Fr Craig:
Go for it, go for it.

Fr Drew:
So yeah, so then we moved to--in the Catholic high school and I remember same one. He went to, they, they put some opportunities forward for like retreats. I went on my first retreat my freshman year, I believe. And it was, it was good. I don't, again, I don't remember ever really, glimpsing a certain sense of, you know, what the Gospel was and why, why I should be a Christian, like what it actually means for my life. So I think I just had the sense of living of like, well, there's good people and there's bad people. And we're--thankfully we're kind of in the good group cause we didn't kill anybody or anything, you know? And so, you know, that's why we go to church and we're just kind of good, nice people, you know? And and when I got to high school, I mean, there was a bit more of again, of an involvement. We had a retreat, which I didn't, that was foreign to me at the time and time of prayer and stuff like that. But it was a bit more social, you know issue-oriented you could say and kind of doing, you know, I think we did some sort of, kind of outing to kind of do a work of mercy or something. And it wasn't until I think--so I, I, we moved after my freshman year up to Michigan. Zach was at U of M and again, I'm kind of watching him have this conversion all the, while being really, really involved in motocross and getting more and more involved as I got older much to my parents. It wasn't their idea by any means. And I, I, that just became kind of my God, I think, as I just looked for that for all of my happiness and especially as we moved, didn't really want to move in high school and all my friends were in the dirt bike world now. And so I just would, like on the weekends, didn't go to church. I would just, as soon as I got a driver's license, I would drive somewhere else to go to the dirt bike track. And that's where I was most, every weekend. And that kind of became this, I think just this venture that I had to say, like, this will make me happy if I just keep kind of moving toward my goal. And I always wanted to race dirt bikes for, you know, professionally or living Southern California and do that whole thing. And my parents and my good brother over here spoke a little bit of, you know, clarity to me and told me, you know, that's probably never going to happen for you and which is very, very accurate, but at least wanted it. And then I thought, well, if I could at least work in the industry and you know, you live in the motocross world, the more you get involved, the more there's a whole scene to it. And so yeah, the guys I emulated were were in some ways, really good guys in other ways, not really good guys. And there's a whole kind of party scene with it. And the Lord kind of preserved me from a lot of that. And yet I was very much around a lot of it. And so it just kind of had its its way in a certain sense, I think in my own heart. And I remember, yeah, as I, as I got through high school just kind of starting to ask questions--my brother again, would I'd reach out to him. We used to go out to dinners occasionally and I'd tell him stuff gone in my life. The girl, I was just kind of dating at the time. And some, some struggles we were having and like seek his advice and he would always say, well, maybe you should just pray about it. And I'm like, what, you know, what's that going to do? And and so I just kind of was getting increasingly more and more set on motocross and that being everything my life revolved around and also at the same time realizing I don't know why I'm alive. I think I had that sense. I know there's something more to life than just kind of growing up, getting a job and living the American dream. And I think that in some ways God used motocross to kind of capture that desire in my heart to say like, there has to be something more to life than this. Like I always felt deep within my heart, this sense of like, gosh, this life, like there's some great heroic kind of destiny that's in the picture here. That's part that that's my life's going towards or for but I don't know what it is. And at the time I was just like, it must be dirt bikes, you know, like it must be just getting into this because everybody had a passion, you got to live your passion and, and eventually got more and more into it. And by my senior year, I remember just kind of hitting a point where I thought, like I had just broken up with this gal who was dating a little bit in high school. And I thought like, well, I'm just going to like pour myself into dirt bikes. I don't want to go to college. I want to move to Southern California and just kind of like live the motocross scene. And and that's where, you know, life will be found. And then at the same time, even though I wanted that I will--I was simultaneously experiencing slowly the Lord, I think, showing me that motocross isn't going to satisfy me. And I like started to kind of just, I started to accomplish some things. It was racing a lot more, nothing dramatic, but you know, it was injured some, I broke my wrist. That was my first big injury, which led to other broken things and, and hospital visits and all sorts of things. But I remember seeing a guy who I knew who raced professionally here, who became a quadriplegic suddenly. And I just thought, wow, this is like kind of sobering and and wondering more and more like, what is life all about? And I remember again, my big bro kind of, well, maybe going to God's in the picture here somewhere and I'm like, yeah, I know. But and this all kind of came, I think two ahead after I had graduated high school I had one of my--this family--I was pretty good friends with the the son and the dad because I raced with them every weekend and became friends with my buddy's sister. And she had kind of had all sorts of--she had had a conversion, but she had also had a conversion based on, of kind of a crisis in her life, and a bunch of kind of stuff that went awry in her life, and I had kind of like really, you know, really had a crush on this girl. And I was like, this is, you know, I, I started to kind of envision my life. Like I moved to California and things are gonna work out with this gal and everything kind of, I, my parents told me like, well, if you, if you don't go to college, you know, you can't live here because we love you and you motocross, I'm going to do it for you. So you need to kind of think about the future. So that kind of closed that door. And then you know, things, they never work out with her, but she had, she had also much, like my brother started to reach out to me and was like, maybe there's something more to life than just, you know, motocross. And I, I think I saw as her life, some choices, she had made sinful choices and things like it all kind of led to her conversion, started to really put before me, like, what, why am I really here? What's this all really for? I don't know. And I don't think I figured it out and I want to figure it out. And so I remember my first year of college, I was asking all these questions. I started even to pray like, Lord, I don't know why I'm here. I think it's to do dirt bikes, but I also know there's all these things in my life that aren't really in accord with how you want me to live. I had all sorts of sin and darkness in my life. I don't know what to do with that. I hope someday you'll just kind of like be gracious to me for those things that I've done wrong. And if you, if you like--would you just show yourself to me in some way? And then that led to me breaking my femur really bad, my first semester of college, and that was kind of the moment God helped me out.

Fr Craig:
God help me out! Break your leg.

Fr Drew:
Exactly.

Fr Craig:
Break your leg.

Fr Drew:
Broke my leg. And I remember just my--I had kind of cried out unto the Lord on the ground. I had this really just kind of intense realization. I felt like were, I just felt like motocross would just kind of being pulled from me in a certain sense, and I thought, if this is all my life, if this was the end of my life again, I had had this guy who I knew who had become a quadriplegic. And and, and with motocross, you just see people injured all the time and sometimes very intensely. So I thought like if this was the end of my life, I don't know why I'm alive and I don't know why I'm here. And I don't know what the whole point of my life was for which really got me thinking and got me crying out to God. And I just said, Lord, get me through this. Like, I want to know, you all know who you are. And then the faithful old bro here with me in the hospital and he's like, I remember him, like, you want me to send the chaplain in? And I'm like, yeah, sure, whatever. I had enough drugs pumping through me. I was like, that sounds great. Send them in, you know? And but eventually I got out of the hospital and he got through surgery and all these things. And that led to me going back to church, which was his inspiration. He encouraged me. And I was like, I want to go to a church where, you know, nothing against the Catholic church at that point. I was just like, I don't feel at home there. I feel like I'm going to walk in and feel completely out of place. Because I'm not one of these necessarily just nice, good American people who belongs in church. I want to go somewhere where the guys in the motocross track that you know, are covered in tats. Like I'm going to see one of them. And so I went to this mega church and that kind of, that was the first place that I actually started to hear the love of God and Jesus and like the cross and the resurrection and the, and the Gospel. And that really moved me and they would share testimony. And I remember watching people like talking about, you know, how their lives have been, not just struck by Jesus, but like totally flipped upside down. I remember they had this cardboard testimony night and this one woman walked out and she had had like multiple abortions on one side and she flipped her card. And she just said like redeemed loved and claimed as a beloved daughter. And I was like, wow, that's just really moved me. Like, God can really like bring beauty from ashes. And I, I knew I had ashes in my own life that I wanted him to make new again. So it, it struck me that like, oh my gosh, like I could actually be forgiven. I don't think I've ever really come to know that. Like, how did that not occur to me? That's what this was for. Like Jesus came to forgive me. He came to heal me. He came to save me. And so was simultaneously I had gone to community college. I was finishing that up. I went to Eastern Michigan, my brother, all along in the background's like, yeah, you should get kind of involved in a campus ministry. So I got hooked up with some really kind of charismatic Pentecostals on campus. And that was the first environment where I just like encountered, you know, a men's group environment. We used to meet and have eggs and bacon with this guy in his apartment. And there's four of us and we just kind of more or less just share like the raw parts of our lives, our struggles, or our graces. And then we pray over each other. And that led to--we used to go out on campus and do kind of like, you know, walk up evangelization and like try to get people to, you know, to have that, like try to get them to have a conversion, but try to have the opportunity to present the Gospel to them and pray with them. And eventually that led to me coming to the Lord more deeply. And also just, I would say making like a first act of surrender of my life to Jesus and coming to know, like, he's really come from me and I want to give him everything. And that led to, you know, my brother always in the background, he's like, well, you know I almost joined this little church that these folks were a part of and they wanted to re-baptize me and he's like, yeah, you probably shouldn't do that. They should, maybe you should look into our roots a little more, you know, like, and he'd always invite me to mass, but I just was never really ready. And then he was going off to seminary at this point. And I remember thinking like, I don't even know about his eternal salvation, you know, as a Catholic at that time. And yeah. And so we would, we would duke it out on these road trips. We'd do some times to visit family and friends. And I was always struck that he, he always had a good reason for what he believed. It was always scriptural and it always kind of rested in tradition. And I was always kind of relying on this solo Scripture, this Bible alone, kind of trying to interpret my way through. But that eventually, a lot of that led to me going back to a Lutheran church that was kind of born out of the charismatic renewal in the Ann Arbor area while I was at Eastern finishing up. And that was a couple more years of just like much more as a deeper conversion, small group setting, like just starting to practice my faith. It led to me eventually--I got back into racing for a few years, but my senior year, I remember just the Lord starting to kind of say like, why don't you the end of my junior year, the Lord saying, like, why don't you just offer motocross up for a year? And I was like, oh, but I did that. I took the kind of this leap of faith and and Jesus really generously provided. And so--was part of this Lutheran church. I had gotten involved with university Christian outreach, which like Zach had been. And I had gotten in living in a household situation that they had where like four or five of us kind of young at all guys would live in a house together. We pray morning prayer together. And just kind of, we had like normal parties and things like that. We'd also like--we'd have dinners together a couple of nights a week and we'd invite people in to try to bring them to the Lord or we invite friends over. It just, it was a good life together. And I was like, really just kind of captured by the Lord in that living situation more and more. Yeah. And eventually that all led to me, like kind of hit this crossroads where I felt like the longer I was Lutheran, the more Catholic I was becoming, my brother would explain things to me on Mary, the saints, the Eucharist church authority. And then I had a guy who I had known from college ministry, Josh, and he, and I would go out for beers and he just, he had a huge conversion, but also a reversion to his Catholic faith. And he knew the faith really well. And he loved the Lord more than I did, which really drew me to like want to talk to him. And I was just like, this guy knows Jesus. And so he--would wrestle through these questions and I was getting scared because I was like, this actually is making sense. And it seems scriptural. And it actually seems like he has a reason for what he believes. And I think I agree with it, which is frightening. And so he would take me to adoration and I remember just praying like, Lord, I think this might be you, if it is like, I just need to come to know more deeply. And it was like, all I can remember or express about those occasions of sneaking away to adoration when I was still Protestant, it was like walking into kind of just a lot of divine love. It was like walking in and feeling the love of God in a way that never felt before.

Fr Craig:
So you snuck in?

Fr Drew:
I snuck into an adoration chapel Christ, the king in Ann Arbor. Thanks be to God for the 24 hour adoration chapel. And I remember just being there and thinking like I hope--because there was Catholics from our campus ministry,

Fr Craig:
Fake Catholics

Fr Drew:
Sunglasses and whatnot and sees me and thinks I'm like a trader, you know? Yeah, so I don't mean to make this super long-winded, but yeah, eventually the Lord just kept doing his thing. And I remember I had a obviously leaving some details out along the way. It's a long story, but remember I, I had, she was just finishing up college, had gone this really pivotal kind of mission trip. My last year with UCO in Mexico was almost becoming Catholic and my heart was getting really frightened. So I kind of put the brakes on it and just sort to say like, well, I'm just going to be a Lutheran, you know, like, and just kind of like, I'm going to live that way. I'm going to deal with it, you know? And and I had agreed to, because I didn't know what I want to do with my life. And I felt like the Lord had some sort of--it was right to give him first dibs on my life. So I decided I'm just going to do a year of mission work with the university of Christian outreach. I did that. I signed up for that graduated college. I had met this kind of really lovely Catholic gal. We'd just become friends. And we were taken out to dinner a few times and I wanted things to go a little more forward. And she's like, no, I'm actually going overseas to do some mission work for a few years. So I've, I've made a promise to Lord that I'm going to set things aside just to do that. And I was like, all right, well, all the while the big bro's, like, yeah, maybe you should really discern your vocation man, you know? And I'm like, yeah, sure, whatever that means. And so yeah, I, I did campus ministry work and then our very first retreat, I just, as I'm wrestling anteriorly with this draw to the church, I remember reading Matthew's Gospel where Jesus says, you know, you are a rock and on this rock, I'll build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail. And I thought, oh my gosh, like, this is really, I mean, I knew a lot of these things. I had been kind of converted, I think in my mind, but I just been resisting it. And this was the moment that I felt like my heart just kind of said, okay, it's no longer a question of when I'm sorry, if, if I will enter, but when I will enter and I knew that this was Jesus's church and I knew I wanted more of him and I knew that he was in his bride and I needed to enter, I wanted to enter his bride. So I came home from that retreat, told my boss, and I was like, I think I need to enter our RCIA. And he's like, great do it. You know? And so I did that. And at the same time.

Fr Craig:
Now where was this?

Fr Drew:
This was at Our Lady of Good Council. So I was working for university Christian outreach in Ann Arbor. I was living there. I was doing some work at U of M, but mainly at Eastern Michigan where I graduated from.

Fr Craig:
How did you get to Our Lady of Good Council?

Fr Drew:
So it was just it, it, a lot of things came together. So I was working for University Christian Outreach. So most of our work involves evenings. So most of the RCIA programs that were nearby, I just couldn't be a part of scheduling wise. And I was also encouraged, like, maybe it'd be good to do it in a place where you don't know anybody, so you can kind of have like a real experience on your own without being influenced by people from campus ministry and things like that. And I thought that sounds kind of nice. I can be a little bit free to do my thing, you know? And so I asked the big bro, and he's like, yeah, you know, I think, you know, this there's a parish over in Plymouth, you know, and I mentioned a couple options. He's like that. I think you'd probably like that place, you know, and, and whatnot. So I just remember writing a Bob and Mary Smientowski, this gracious couple who's now retired from the role. And they're like, yeah, come on in. We got space. And I just showed up. And one thing led to another and they were--it was a remarkable experience of conversion in my own life coming to know that God, especially him as my father and and just community. It was a great community. We had about 38 or 40 people in RCIA and went all the way to the end. Pretty much.

Fr Craig:
Did your brother come to the Easter vigil to see you?

Fr Drew:
He was actually in Rome, I think. Because he was, he was often theology studies at this point, but I do remember him saying, so I'm coming into the church, I'm working for UCO. I'm also kind of in the background, somewhat a little frightened by this discernment question. And I remember, you know, the servants of the word, he mentioned these, these missionary brotherhood of Christian missionary brotherhood. They had kind of sponsored our campus ministry and they had invited all of us in the last year of college or post, you know, discern your vocation. So this gal who I had kind of just really appreciated and liked a lot--and she was kind of doing that in her life. And I was like, all right, I need to do this my own life. And and I did that and the more I did that much like the church, I just kind of did kind of get a little bit frightened by, I felt like the grace, the Lord gave me of like in the ways that he had forgiven me in my life and set me free in my life and loved me and my life. I just wanted to give my whole life back to him is what I experienced. And and the brothers were great. The sermons, the word they're like, you know, they encourage a bunch of us like come on some of these discernment weekends. So I started doing a little discernment in the background even as a Protestant, but I never felt like that was the context. And so I felt like there was a grace to get my whole existence to the Lord and to kind of be single or be celibate for the sake of the Lord's kingdom. But I didn't really know, like in what way. And then I think as like, as they went through RCIA and came to know God, the father in my life, and especially in coming to know him as my father, through the sacraments, confession and all this, I thought like, I want to make known the Father. And I think like the only way I can understand it is to be a priest, which sounds crazy because I never thought about being a priest and I not even technically fully Catholic yet, but that's kind of where it all began.

Fr Craig:
So, I mean, did you have to wait a couple of years before you could truly discern a call to the priesthood and enter the seminary?

Fr Drew:
Yeah. Similar to, to Zach. I had to--I remember telling our parish pastor Fr John, and he's just like, well, you know, why don't you do another year of like missionary work? You like that a lot. And I was like, I do. And he's like, you know, you probably are. They're gonna want you to wait probably two years anyways. So all the better you got time to discern, you know? So and he threw a couple options out there to me and a lot of those options, the door just shut door, just shut the door, just shut. And the last option you throw out and it's like, well, you know, if you'd be willing to kind of help various things in the parish evangelization, you could come live at the rectory and kind of just see the priestly life in a certain sense from, you know, in a real time way, and that actually worked. And I did that for a few set of months and it was a really rich and grace time. And yeah, I just felt like as I, as I kind of helped out with some like evangelization stuff for the parish there, I just felt more and more of a draw. Like I want to, I want to give myself to the Lord and I think he's calling me to be a priest. And then I, I did that for a year and then I lived in another kind of a, a guy's household the second year with some guys in different campus ministry days, and then eventually entered the seminary. And here I am.

Fr Craig:
So did you always feel like you're Johnny come lately? You just follow your brother wherever he goes or?

Fr Drew:
In some ways, I suppose in some ways we have a very, like, it's amazing how he really did the Lord used him. I think a lot in my life and still does. He's a lot more--he's just kind of like a rock kind of a presence in a lot of ways. He's also very chill. He's more chill than anybody I know. But yeah, I think in a lot of ways we're very different. So I'm, I'm a little bit like a, a hundred miles an hour at times where he's a little more of a study, you know, 75.

Fr Craig:
You're motocross and he's,

Fr Drew:
He's the big easy.

Fr Craig:
So, your first year, this is year going into your second year of priesthood?

Fr Drew:
Yes.

Fr Craig:
Okay. And then you've been--Fr Zach you're eight years now?

Fr Zach:
Six years.

Fr Craig:
Six years now.

Fr Zach:
Six years. Yes. I'm going into my seventh year.

Fr Craig:
Okay. So you've got a lot more experience when it comes to priesthood and everything. Have you had talks about what to do in ministry or, you know, like, I don't know what to do in this situation. You call him your brother. Is it kind of like that type of relationship? Or, or do you guys still talk to each other on a daily basis or a weekly basis or?

Fr Zach:
We talk regularly. I mean, I would say we, we communicate in some way or another, you know, probably a couple of times a week, you know, usually if it's just a brief text or something and yeah, I think we talk about things in ministry pretty regularly, again, probably every week or two something or other. And, you know, we, we see each other often enough. We often all, you know, get together with our folks sort of once a month or once or twice a month. So yeah, no, I think that that dimension has been very good and in enriching and edifying.

Fr Craig:
Well, what I find really interesting about you too, is that, you know, you're brother priests. So there's something really cool about that. There's not too many people in this world that can say that. I mean, there's a few I can think of in the archdiocese right now, but not only that you guys were drawn to like some type of priestly fraternity as well, or even before the priests, did you kind of lived in community--you want to explain a little bit about that priestly fraternity, and what that means to you and how that helps your own priesthood? So if a guy like doesn't really understand what that's about to kind of explain it for us.

Fr Zach:
Yeah. I mean, I think we both had the experience like in college, you know, through this group UCO, we were mentioning in particular, but then I also live the priests that you know, helped me through the RCIA program at St. Thomas and in our, where they started a little discernment house there for guys. They had one for girls too next door, but they started one for guys who were open or interested in discerning a priestly vocation. So you could come and live there with other guys and pray with them. And, and again, I think we both had this experience from some of these household, you know, experiences in the summer at different points in the academic year of just, yeah. Experiencing kind of the richness of, you know, living and, and praying and sharing faith in life with other guys. So I think that dimension was kind of you know, something we, we both came to appreciate early on and, and, and savor, we went through all this I, in my first assignment, I lived in Flint the first two years I was ordained. So I lived in, worked with a group of other priests there. And, and that was, that was really rich. I mean, there were five of us and we didn't, we didn't have sort of a really sort of strict herbarium or anything like that, or, you know, kind of schedule of life that we had in like a regimented way. But it was, it was just very rich and good to, to live with other guys and, you know, to have other guys nearby, if you wanted to talk about things or seek input or that sort of thing. And, and yeah, I would say as a priest that that dimension of, of seeking out and fostering fraternity has been an important and a lively one. Yeah. I think for both of us, you know, and and, and that, and that plays out in a variety of ways you know, concretely, but yeah.

Fr Craig:
I could see how you both came to the Lord just through other people. Like it's so completely different from me. Like maybe I talked to my mom about my faith, but I didn't talk to anybody else about it. It was just like, sort of me and the Lord and what I got in books and things like that. And you guys were like relational. I mean, you guys both seem more extroverted and everything like that. So that makes sense for your lives. Now, Fr Drew, you, you were also in a priestly fraternity. You want to explain a little bit about that?

Fr Drew:
Yeah, I'd just say it was, it was more with these like household settings, which was kind of connected to this group called the Servants of the Word, but yeah, we just lived in these, I don't know, it was a household of four or five guys. My brother did it before me as with most things, it seems like in this season of life, but it was great. We just, it was like the faith became, it was like knowing God became kind of infectious, because we're all kind of, we're all in this. We're really different guys living together, but we're all running towards the Lord and because we're all running towards the Lord, it would just kind of, you just kind of spur each other on or, you know, iron sharpens iron, you know, like we would just--even though we didn't necessarily always like, you know, verbally encourage somebody, the very fact that like, okay, I'm going to get up in the morning. Because we'd said, we're going to pray at this time. And remember, you know, that's, that was difficult back then, when it's, you know, in the middle of the winter, I'm in college, it's early in the morning, you you're exhausted and we're all coming down and everybody is, and we're starting to kind of pray together and remember just having these experiences. I know Zach did too, just the way we did morning prayer at a certain point, we would just kind of have a time of worship and then guys would just pray out from the heart. And I remember just hearing guys next to you, just praying out like really from their heart, what they needed or what, what God was doing. And it was just like, wow, this guy's just kind of like pouring himself out. And I get to kind of, I'm not trying to listen, but I can kind of almost he's, he's kind of doing it in a certain kind of humble, vulnerable way, and it inspired me to do the same, which eventually led, I think to just a greater confidence in God and an openness to him and knowing that he's alive and that he wants to work. And it made the knowing God real, you know, more and more real, I think. And then I think the other grace of it was like you just know you have, it was a certain taste of like what it means to be a brother and not just a name, but like, you know, we really, like, we were kind of looking out for each other. We, we shared life together. We shared struggles together. We shared joys together. We'd have, you know, a big party in the backyard, cigars and people over and grill out and whatever. And then we'd also, you know, we sometimes do like service together or go try to evangelize, you know in a certain setting together, or we'd just be praying as a house for a certain person together and trying to reach out and support them, whatever. So you just, yeah, you kind of live, you share life together and not kind of in a programmatic way, but in a much more relational way, which I think makes the--it just like the Christian life becomes more real and more ardent, I guess it just kind of, it's like contagious. Yeah. It's worth it. That's why I love it.

Fr Craig:
Well Fr Zach you have more of a community being at the seminary because you got a bunch of priests that live together. So I assume you're having dinner and you're having talks and you're hanging out with each other. How do you get fraternity?

Fr Drew:
I'm actually in a, I'm in a group with Fr David, Fr Dave.

Fr David:
That's right. That's right. We have a, just a little men's group, a few classmates of ours and we we just meet up every so often. What, like once a month we shoot for and just, just share life, pray together share graces and struggles encourage each other on.

Fr Craig:
Have a meal, couple cigars.

Fr Drew:
Yeah, I think too, just like my brother has been really good about this and encourage just like having friendships and then making time for that. Like other, other guys he keep up with, I mean, our classes we were in like, you know, we're texting each other regularly. You're kind of just sharing stories. You know, if somebody needs prayer, call it, check up on each other and joking with each other, like kind of, you know, it just keeps, things, keeps things kind of honest and down to earth and sincere. And my brother is, he's always been a good example of that. You know, I know he's got the same stuff with a lot of his own priest, friends and whatnot. And it does, it keeps you from becoming, I think like overly professional in a certain way. And it keeps, it keeps your own, like your own relationship with God real, you know, you're not just a professionally religious person.

Fr Craig:
It keeps, it keeps you human.

Fr Drew:
It keeps you human. Yeah. I'd say that at least.

Fr Zach:
Yeah. Yeah. Like I liked the way he put that. Yeah. Yeah.

Fr David:
You know, it's, it's interesting. Maybe, maybe 60, 70 years ago, you know, the, the forties in the fifties, I think there was just a lot of community built into the priesthood with where you'd have multiple guys living in a rectory. And then I think over the last, maybe 30 years or so, that became less and less. The case is priests were, you know, kind of spread thinner. And I just, I think a lot of guys in the priesthood are seeing more and more the need for, for some sort of fraternity, some sort of brotherhood, some sort of community, just to really encourage each other, like you said, iron sharpens iron, just, just to be there as brothers for each other. Yeah.

Fr Craig:
Yeah. You know, I'll just put in a shameless plug for what I got going on this year is we do have a discernment group that meets every month. That would be a wonderful thing to to come to that, iron sharpens iron. Right. So I think last year we had nine guys in it and I think six or seven of the guys asked for an application for the seminary. So, I mean, it was doing what we wanted it to do is to really talk about the priesthood and we're hopefully going to be doing our discernment weekends as well. So please check out our website cause that's another great way in which you can actually live with this seminarians for about four days and kind of see what life is like. So it would be a wonderful experience for anybody who's interested in that. So I just want to give you both just a little bit of time here. If, if, if you were speaking to a discerner right now, like what would you say to them? Like, what's the best advice both of you can give to them right now? I'm, I'm a young man thinking about the priesthood. What should I do?

Fr Zach:
I think the main thing I would encourage you to do is just, just pray, you know I mean live a sort of, you know certain of ordinary Catholic life, you know, sort of go to mass through the, through the things that the church would ask of you, but I would, I would encourage you to you to pray, you know, in a, in a lively and in a personal way specifically about this, you know, and, and you know, one of the things I've been struck by, in preaching the last few years we get not uncommonly these, you know, healing scenes where Jesus heals someone in the gospels. And one of the things that struck me of late especially is that often when Jesus interacts with people in those sorts of scenes, you know, the, the thing he'll say to them is something like, what do you want, or what do you want for me? Or what do you want me to do for you? And yeah, I've just been kind of struck and captivated with that. And you know, I, I think, you know to the extent that we can take those scenes as really being models for us on the spiritual level, I mean, I think I think there's really something there to that idea of just coming before God coming before the Lord and, and telling him what we do want, or, you know, asking him what he wants from us and, you know, kind of bearing our hearts to him in a deeper way, you know? And and I think a lot of real sort of action and work can happen when we do that, when we're willing to kind of open ourselves up before God and that sort of manner. So I think that's the main thing I would encourage guys to do is just to, yeah, to, to, to pray more, to pray more fervently, to pray more wholeheartedly and really to kind of, you know, open themselves up before the Lord about their lives and where they're headed and where they'd like them to head and so on.

Fr Craig:
Awesome. Fr Drew, any, any other words of advice?

Fr Drew:
He's usually the smarter one. So but I would say.

Fr Craig:
Get yourself a motocross bike?

Fr Drew:
That's right. Yeah. Start riding dirt bikes. No I think all of what he said, but also just like--you think of the, the widow and the gospels were, you know, she puts all she has into the jar, you know, the two mites, she kind of gives her whole livelihood to the Lord. And I think that's kind of the invitation, I think of discernment in some ways it's just like giving your whole self to Jesus and letting him kind of work it out, you know surrendering, you know, whatever. Here I am, like all my baggage, all that I am like I just want to give myself to you. I think the vocation comes from a certain kind of just being caught up in the love of God and then like, knowing him, he'll kind of make clear the vocation but a certain kind of just putting your whole life on the altar and how, when you, when you do pray, when you do seek the Lord, like Lord, I'm all yours. Like, I just want to know I want more of you, you know, and and being open and not putting, you know, kind of walls up or a certain kind of pre-planning how it's going to go, or, you know, dictating too much how that might look just giving God like his, his companions of the cross, say like just complete permission, you know, to do whatever he wants to do with your life. Knowing that like, if I, if I say yes to whatever he has he's going to not only see me through and be credibly faithful to me, but he's going to like, bring about my salvation, please, God, if I, if I kind of cooperate, you know and I'm going to be, I'm actually going to have joy, you know, like I'm actually going to have life. It's not going to be easy, but it's going to be, it's going to be him and it's him that I'm made for, you know? And I think also just to count on my brother has been really great for this. And the second part is kind of just as David said, other David said you know, keep it be human, still be yourself. You know, like be honest, be kind of just sincere about where you're at and let the Lord really work with you. And don't try to, like, sometimes I think in discernment we can have these, like, we hear all this good and it's good stuff, but it's like, we have, you know, pillars and we have all these documents on discernment. We have all these kinds of discernment helps and, you know, pieces and like podcasts, you know, all sorts of things you can kind of subscribe to for greater discernment stuff, which is great, like podcasts, but at the end of the day, like we're all different, you know? And like nobody fits into a box. And and the Lord Jesus is the one who calls. And if he's calling like as one the servants of the word guys once told me, he just said, you know, go until he says no, and then you'll know. But if he doesn't say it, they said, don't give up. Don't, don't kind of short, shoot him. Don't make conditions, just give everything to him and just go until he says no, and that's kind of what I did. I feel like. And, and he said, yes, he didn't, didn't say no, you know, just kept calling before. So anyways.

Fr Craig:
Those are some wise words. You have some wisdom yourself.

Fr Drew:
Other smart people have told me, like my brother.

Fr Craig:
Fr Zach and Fr Drew, thank you so much for coming out and speaking with us, this is a wonderful time to get to know you and to know how you came to the Lord, how you came to know the Catholic faith and ultimately come to the priesthood. Fr Zach, as the older brother, do you want to lead us out in prayer?

Fr Zach:
Sure. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, amen. Heavenly father, we praise and thank you through your Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, for the gift of new life and of hope that you've given us through him. We thank you that you've given us callings, that you've given us vocations, that you've given us direction for our lives in you. With gratitude, we trust ourselves to you. We entrust those who are discerning and seeking your guidance and your will for their lives to you, and we ask that all of us and all that we do and all that we are might continue to become more fragrant offerings that we might glorify you in our lives, that we might honor you with our service and that we might continue to love you and know you more and more through the same Christ our Lord. Amen.

Fr Craig:
In the name of Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Amen. Thank you everyone. Again. This is a wonderful time to be with you. You've been listening to Men of the Hearts, a monthly podcast from the Archdiocese of Detroit office of priestly vocations. Again, join me, your host father Craig Giera and Fr David Pellican, as we explore the priesthood, hear vocation stories from priests all over the archdiocese and from the diocese of Lansing and answer questions about discerning the priestly vocation. Tune in every month to wherever you get your podcasts and learn more at detroitpriestlyvocations.com. God bless everyone.