Fr. Craig:
My name is Fr. Craig Giera. And I'm your host here at Men of the Hearts along with Fr. Dave Pellican. And we're here to talk a little bit about vocations, about what the priesthood is about, what we can do to discern. And I think first and foremost, you should know who your hosts are and what we're all about. I'm 43 years old. David's a little bit younger than I am, and I thought that would be really great that him and I could be doing a podcast together coming from different angles. We have sort of a different vocation story. And that's what we talking about on this episode, but I've been a priest now in the Archdiocese of Detroit for almost 11 years. My ordination date is May 22nd. That is the feast of Saint Rita of hopeless causes, so I find that very fitting for me because I am a hopeless cause many of the days of my life, and it's through the grace of God that I give by each and every single day. And I've been in a number of different assignments. My first assignment as a parochial vicar or an associate priest was at Guardian Angels for a couple of years, then I went over to St. Fabian and St. Coleman as the two parishes were merging together. From there, I became the pastor of St. Ephrem Parish and I was there for about five and a half years. And now I'm the Director of Priestly Vocations here in the Archdiocese of Detroit.

Fr. David:
Well, that's a bit beefier of an intro than I have. I haven't had as long in the field, I was just ordained, this past June. June 6th, I was ordained a priest. Our class, it was kind of interesting in the middle of a pandemic, I got ordained by myself, actually not with my classmates, just so I could have a few more guests. And after that I was assigned to Divine Child Parish in Dearborn, and that's where I've been for the past six months or so. Really just trying to figure out what exactly it is that a priest does, what it is that we're called to and how I can kind of grow into this great vocation that that Jesus has called me to. Yeah, I'm really, really happy we're doing a podcast like this. As a matter of fact, it's something that I really would have benefited from in kind of those years of uncertainty that lead up to, "Should I enter the seminary? Should I not?" It would have been helpful to just have something like this where I could just hear a little bit of practical advice about about navigating those questions. And ultimately I did end up in seminary spent eight years at Sacred Heart Seminary before getting ordained. Yeah, and I just happy to be a priest and excited to do this podcast with you, Fr. Craig.

Fr. Craig:
Yeah. And this is cool. Little fun fact for everybody listening. Fr. Dave — Fr. David and myself, we both live together in the same rectory. As I moved from St. Ephrem I had to find a place to live and Fr. Bob McCabe over here at Divine Child has let live here. And I I'd like to say that Fr. David is a good housemate. He actually went grocery shopping for everybody else. He went grocery shopping for everybody the other day, and he's very clean and neat. So he's a great housemate, too.

Fr. David:
Costco. Costco's the way to go, you know. I've fallen in love with Costco now. So that's my place.

Fr. Craig:
It's perfect. Every now and then it's fun to see what he's going to bring back. There's fig bars this time, last time it was a granola crackers and things like that. So, really enjoy him going shopping for us.

Fr. David:
Got to switch it up a little, you know?

Fr. Craig:
Yeah. So Dave, I'm sorry — and so Fr. David, your vocation story is a little bit different than mine in that you went into the seminary right after you were in high school. Now, did you go to a traditional high school or were you homeschooled? I don't remember.

Fr. David:
No, I did not go to a traditional high school. I was homeschooled. So I tell people, when they ask me what high school I went to, I say my kitchen table. And yeah, so that was that was probably different than your usual experience. I ended up loving it. Not every day. I mean, your mom's your teacher, so you can't really — there's not a whole lot of leeway. You can't really pull one over on her. And snow days don't really happen because well, you're right there. But overall it was, it was a lot of fun growing up. I'm one of eight, all boys except for seven of us. So if you're doing the math, yes, I'm the only boy. I have seven sisters.

Fr. Craig:
Were you spoiled rotten?

Fr. David:
You know, looking back, at times I was. There's also, you know, I always say big families teach you not to be selfish. Well, it happened more in my case than most, I think, because, you know, you might think you get your way one eighth of the time, but the girls, they just, you know, they kind of gang up on you and so, long story short, Dad and I watched a lot of chick flicks, you know? We suffered through a lot of sappy movies growing up.

Fr. Craig:
Some of those are good though.

Fr. David:
Yeah, that's true. It's true. I'll admit that under protest.

Fr. Craig:
And now were all your sisters homeschool as well? I would believe so correct?

Fr. David:
Yes. They actually they still are. My youngest sister is eight years old right now. So, my poor parents, they've got a ways to go before we're all out of the house.

Fr. Craig:
And how old is the oldest?

Fr. David:
The oldest? I've got one older sister and she is 28 right now. So eight to 28 is the span.

Fr. Craig:
Yeah. And are any of them married? Do you have any nieces or nephews?

Fr. David:
I have a nephew and another one on the way. Not sure if it's a niece or nephew. My sister right below me, she is she's married. And actually my oldest sister is getting married in the spring, and I get to do the wedding.

Fr. Craig:
That's nice. That's nice. So for me, I was a little bit different than Fr. David. I just went to regular high school. I'd never been in Catholic school in my life until I entered the seminary. I would like to say probably that I was more of an underachiever. I probably would have failed high school if I didn't go to a separate school for half of the day, I'm an artist, so I went to graphic design for about three hours a day, and then I would drive over to the regular high school and do the math class or the social studies class. And I can say that I walked my graduation not knowing if I graduated high school or not. I just, I guess, was an underachiever and thought high school was holding me back and wanted to have a good time with my friends and, you know, was trying to soul search and figure out what I wanted out of life.

Fr. Craig:
And it took me a little bit later than it took Fr. David. And I think that's good knowing that, you know, vocations to the priesthood can happen in so many different ways. There's no one standard look for a seminarian, one standard, look for a priest. We're all different. We all come in shapes and sizes and different personalities. And of course we all have our own flaws as well. And we're all sinners, but God's grace covers it all. So, yeah. My journey was a little bit different, but I always went to school even on snow days or whatever that, you know, you had to be definitely ill in my family to stay home from school. And if you did stay home from school and you were still sick, you were made to feel guilty that you should not, you should be sicker more.

Fr. Craig:
Why aren't you at school? And even though I was an underachiever, I made it to class every single day. I've never skipped class or anything. I had maybe slept through the class, but I still went to school every single day. So yeah. Well it would be great to, before we talk a little bit more about our vocation stories and kind of dive into more of our lives, it'd be good to say, okay, why are we talking? Or why are we called the Men of the Hearts? It seems kind of, you know. If you can't see our logo right now, it's the image of the Immaculate Heart and the Sacred Heart. And it's done more in a sort of, kind of like an old graphic tattoo kind of style because we really want it to, you know, show the boldness of what it is to be called to the priesthood in this day and age. But we also have a classical, traditional feel as well, that our Church has this very rich tradition that we grow out of. So I wanted to merge the two kind of feelings together. And I think it goes really well together. And so the Immaculate Heart, of course, is the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and we have the Sacred Heart of Jesus Christ, and the two are one, they beat as one. Fr. David, you want to explain that a little bit for us?

Fr. David:
Sure. I can't help but think our listeners are going to know very well that you're an artist. Just hearing your description of the graphic there. It's much more detailed than I probably could have gone into. You know, when we talk about these two hearts, right, and it's not just the heart, but men of the hearts, the heart of Jesus and the heart of Mary. For me that brings to mind, well, first of all, something St. John Vianney said that we're probably all familiar with, but that the priesthood is the love of the heart of Jesus. And it's not, I don't know, it's not kind of this L-U-V love kind of Hallmark card or something.

Fr. Craig:
It's manly love.

Fr. David:
It's the love of Jesus on the cross, giving himself for us. And that's what the priesthood is about. So that's where my mind goes first. I also can't help, but think of St. John Eudes, is that how you say it?

Fr. Craig:
Eudes? No one knows how to say it. I remember my first year in the priesthood and we got to that feast day and I was calling different priests in the morning, going, "How do you say this priest's name? I want to pray this Mass, but I don't know how to say his name." And the priest that I called, he was like, "I don't know how to say it." And I'm like, how can you not know how to say it? And now 10 years, I still don't know how to, was it "yoods" or is it "oods"? Is it French?

Fr. David:
You know, it's French and what can I say? They don't really know how to spell.

Fr. Craig:
St. John Eudes.

Fr. David:
Anyways, so he's a favorite of mine though. His feast day is my birthday.

Fr. Craig:
Oh, really?

Fr. David:
Yeah, yeah, but he was French, and he actually started an order over in France. But a lot of his works focus on the Sacred and the Immaculate Heart and really the union of these two hearts. Right? So he talks about how, you know, Mary's heart is immaculate and so it's able to love perfectly, and that's really because God created it that way, gave her the special privilege of the Immaculate Conception. And then how, like, when Jesus was a baby it was Mary's Immaculate Heart that really taught Jesus how to love as a human, right? That the first the first sound Jesus would have heard even before he was born, was his, his mother's heart beating while he was still in the womb.

Fr. David:
And just how, you know, her perfectly loving heart really taught his heart as he grew to love in a human way. And then how, as they grew that relationship, those two hearts, just, they really mirrored that love for each other, and they had this special bond, right? And then he says, and I love this, he says that we place our hearts right there between the Sacred and Immaculate Heart, and let our hearts be enkindled by that love and conformed evermore to the Sacred and Immaculate Hearts so that we can love in a more pure manner. Love the way they did.

Fr. Craig:
That's great. That's beautiful, the way you put it. If our listeners don't know already by now Fr. Dave is my — Fr. David is much more smarter than I am, and he'll come from the theological side and he'll explain it really well. He's a very smart person. And I sometimes forget that he's been only ordained for a couple months. I ask him to do things every now and then, and I noticed maybe I shouldn't bring this up, but maybe I will. You know, I noticed that we had all the seminarians at a Mass once and he kind of got tripped up at the beginning of Mass. And I'm like, this is like his first time, like, in front of all the seminarians. And he's got, you know, this other priest with them and all of these people when it's being recorded. And I'm like, yeah, I would have been shaking in my boots if I was in his position, you know? Right, you know, right after ordination. So David's doing — Fr. David's doing a wonderful job as, as a newly ordained priest, and he's got a lot of knowledge to bring. So I'm glad that you're a part of our podcast here to be able to help explain things better than I would when it comes to theology.

Fr. David:
You know, as you're, you're saying I have a lot of knowledge. I also have a lot, a lot that I don't know. And I felt like this first six months has just been, I mean, it's an adventure, right. And I don't know what's happening next, and I don't really know how to do what I'm doing. It's like, all right, you're doing a funeral. Oh, how do I do that? You know? And then in the midst of the pandemic, it's just you know. I was, in seminary. I always say I was prepared. Right? I kind of knew what was coming up, I got my assignments in on time most of the time. And now I'm just like, I feel like the exact opposite. I have no clue what's going to happen, you know, in the next five minutes the next day. And you just take it as it comes and you've got to stay close to Jesus in that, or otherwise, you're you feel like you're drowning I guess.

Fr. Craig:
Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that's very, you know, wise of you to know that, you know, head knowledge is not necessarily all knowledge that you need to be a good priest, you know? I'm going to brag for you. I think Fr. David made it all the way through seminary with all As. You didn't get a B anywhere.

Fr. David:
This is true. This is true.

Fr. Craig:
That's awesome. That's not the case for me, although I did get good grades. I did not get all As trust me on that. Well, go ahead.

Fr. David:
I was just going to say, you know what they say in seminary, they say, what do they call a priest who gets all Cs? They call him "Father".

Fr. Craig:
They call him "Father". [laughs]

Fr. David:
No one's asked to see my diploma yet, Fr. Craig. So.

Fr. Craig:
Yeah, definitely. So that's great. And did you take extra classes as well, electives? I mean, were you taking Greek and Hebrew?

Fr. David:
Yes, Father, I was an overachiever.

Fr. Craig:
[laughs] That's awesome. And so for me, when I look at the Immaculate Heart and the Sacred Heart together, I don't necessarily think of it in too of a theological way. I think more of how the Blessed Mother leads us to Jesus. You know, Mary was the way in which Jesus came to you and I, and it's the way that I think Jesus wants us to go back to him. So it's through this Immaculate Heart that we go to the Sacred Heart, and then there's kind of a play on words there, because my office, the Vocation Office is in Sacred Heart. And I look at the Vocation Office, like the Immaculate Heart of Mary, that as men come to discern whether or not they're called to the priesthood that, you know, through this discernment process together and through much prayer that hopefully they'll be led to the Sacred Heart, Sacred Heart Major Seminary, to learn how to have the heart of Jesus Christ to be a good priest, as they do a wonderful job, forming men into the image of Christ.

Fr. Craig:
It's funny that I forget that sometimes. And a really holy priest, one time told us that, you know, our motives are mixed all the time. Sometimes there are more periods like 90% good and 10% selfishness. Sometimes it's 50-50, sometimes it's 80-20, depending on what day it is. And for me, I just, I remind myself every single day, Holy Mary, Mother of God, please help me have the heart of Jesus Christ. Help me to serve out of love, not out of fear, not out of compulsion, not out of vanity. Of course, I think that's a temptation for everybody. And I actually have it on my phone every — 7:00 PM every single day, I get a reminder: ask the Blessed Mother for the heart of Jesus Christ. Just to put my mind in the right frame of mind, or my heart and into it, because I think sometimes we can always get caught up in whatever nonsense is going on in the day and forget about what —we're doing this to bring souls to heaven.

Fr. Craig:
And this is why I was ordained, you know? Not to be perfect here or perfect there, but to bring God's love to everybody.

Fr. David:
Amen.

Fr. Craig:
Yeah. So maybe we should talk a little bit more about our vocation story. We started that at the beginning. Fr. David, why don't you kind of explain a little bit more like what your journey was towards you know, feeling that you were called to the priesthood and, you know, did it start early? Was it something that was, you know, talked about with your parents? How did you enter into the seminary? All that good stuff.

Fr. David:
Yeah. Yeah. It did start pretty early for me, but you know, you mentioned earlier about how every path is different and I got to say, that's true. When I entered seminary, I was sitting next to a guy in class who was 40 years old, had held down three different jobs, and you know, there we were together in seminary. That was one of the things that really dawned on me in a new way at seminary, is that — how different the paths can be to the priesthood, the different paths that our Lord draws us on. But yeah, for me, it started pretty early. I first started thinking about the priesthood when I was just 10 years old. So I was really young. And as a ten-year-old, I didn't really think like "where's the thought coming from" or anything, but it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Fr. David:
So I said, yeah, sure. I'll be, I'll be a priest. Didn't understand deeply what the priesthood was, seemed more like, I don't know, you get up there everyday, you say Mass, you pass around a basket for some money and you know, Hey, it's not a bad gig. So, when I was 10, I went down, I told my parents, I said, "Hey, I'm going to be a priest." They were like, yeah, sure. It didn't take me too seriously. You know, said zookeeper last week, probably say something else next next week. But that thought stuck with me somehow. It just, it kind of remained and just that thought, like "be a priest, be a priest." And I was, I was pretty much on board as a younger kid, about until I got to high school really. And then I started to understand a little bit more of what what the priesthood is, particularly that priests can't get married. And I found that out, and I'm in high school and I was just like, you know, "Sorry, Lord. You know, I've got other plans for my life. You know, I want to get married. Like, there's this really beautiful girl I know, and I want to get married, you know? I don't want to be a priest."

Fr. Craig:
At this time did other people know that you were thinking about the priesthood? Or just your family, or did like —

Fr. David:
You know, I kind of stopped talking about it to like anyone really. Because I didn't want to do that. And so I think even my parents kind of were like, "Oh yeah, he's just moved on." You know, "He's thinking about other things." And especially as I got towards the end of high school, I'm applying to colleges, I was accepted to Madonna, U of M. I was pretty convinced I was going to go to U of M, become a doctor, go into the medical field. That was, you know, it's just what my plan was. Get married, have a family support them through that.

Fr. Craig:
And you would have got all As in medical school too, right?

Fr. David:
[laughs] I don't know about that. I don't know about that. That might be another level than seminary. But that was the plan. And I think that, you know, that thought about the priesthood was still there, but I did not want to pay attention to it. I was, I guess there was a question in my mind, "How could God, who is so good, really ask me to give something up as good as marriage?" And probably underneath that, something of a fear of like, could I actually be happy giving up marriage and a family? And I just, I didn't think I could. So I was ignoring God. And I think that really changed my senior year of high school, as I said, I was applying to these colleges, but then Dad and I, we actually went on a silent retreat together.

Fr. David:
It was three days, a lot of silence, a lot of prayer. And you know, if you're kind of trying to ignore God, silence is not the place to go. There I was, I remember in particular, one afternoon I was sitting there in the chapel, in front of the Eucharist and this thought was just coming back, like, you know, be a priest. And, well, what if I am called to be a priest, you know? Do I really want to resist that? And it just seemed like God was there. Jesus was there. Andnhe was offering me an option. I think before then I maybe felt a little trapped, like God was trying to trap me into this or something. But at that moment it was like, Jesus was offering me an option. He was saying, "You know, you could get married, be a doctor.

Fr. David:
"And I would bless you in that. Or you could be a priest, you know? And you'd also be happy and I would bless you in that. And I'm asking you to be a priest for me." And I think at that moment, it was really, I was, I think I was open to that call and I just said, "All right, Lord, I'll try it." And even then after that, there was just like a lot of peace. A lot of peace around that decision. And my attitude wasn't, "Oh, I'm going to be a priest," but it was "Lord, I'll try it. You know, if this is where you're calling me, I'll give it a try." And that eventually led me to seminary. It was a bit, a few things in between. Once I said, I'd try the priesthood it was like, well, do I just discern diocesan priesthood go to go to Sacred Heart, or an order?

Fr. David:
And so I went, I visited a couple of different orders. The Miles Christi, they're an order out in South Lyon. Visited them for about a week. I looked into the Dominicans for a little while, a couple of different orders. And I really loved what I saw there, but I guess what I loved was just seeing, like, priests who were really on fire for Jesus. And it wasn't so much like the particular charisms of the order. Right? So it wasn't necessarily so much teaching, like the Dominicans do or preaching. And with that, I think I eventually ended up thinking, well, maybe diocesan priesthood. That's what I always envisioned myself, you know, in a parish administering the sacraments. I went on a — I came to Sacred Heart. Fr. Birney was teasing me that I was just showing up for the free food.

Fr. David:
'Cause I went on like two or three events throughout the rest of that year. And ended up just feeling like this was the place for me. Like, met some seminarians and was like, I could do this. I could do this. So I asked for an application eventually and ended up at Sacred Heart. Yeah. I tell people that you know, they looked at me — it could take six to eight years at Sacred Heart — I tell people, they looked at me and said, "Oh, he needs the full eight."

Fr. Craig:
[laughs] Yeah. So it was really holy priests that, you know, put your heart on fire that maybe I'm called to this. And then the silence that you started to hear God in a very real way. And the choice of whether or not, you know, he was giving you the choice. I think, can't remember what saint put it, but, you know, God is a gentleman. He's not going to force himself upon, you know, your will that he's going to ask and he's going to respect and honor that. Even though he does have a plan for our lives, but God's still gonna ask, even though — he even asked his mother, you know, he said, you know, we had to wait for Mary's "yes" when St. Archangel Gabriel came to her. So I had a similar kind of experience that you had in the silence.

Fr. Craig:
It took a lot longer than just a three-day silent retreat. But I was trying to apply for graduate school for fine arts. I graduated with a fine art degree, I got a bachelor's from Wayne State University. I was working in a fine art gallery for a number of years. And I just thought that, you know, my stuff was great, I want to sell it in a gallery and I'm going to get to go to any school I want to go to. And I looked up the top four art schools in the nation for graduate schools and applied to all four of them. And guess what? All four of them said, "No, we don't want you," So I go, what am I going to do now? And I kind of had an awakening of like, okay, I really need to, if I want to be an artist, I need to do this every single day and really put my full effort into it.

Fr. Craig:
Not that I wasn't, I mean, I was working in a fine art gallery. After work, I would go to the art studio. I had an art studio in Hamtramck and I would, you know, make art every single day. But there was still more I could be doing to live a life as an artist. So I quit my job. Got a part-time job, doing catering with a company, which was really good because I would have been a starving artist, but I didn't start because I took all the leftovers home. So like when you have a wedding and there's like 300 people, not everybody show up. So you get like, you know, 20 or 30 chicken breasts a night that, you know, no one has eaten or touched. And so I would have, my staple diet was the triple-cooked chicken. Triple-cooked because if you know, catering, you know, they cook it first before the event almost all the way.

Fr. Craig:
And then they cook it for the event so that it's warm. Then I would go home, wash off the sauce and the breading on it, put it in the freezer, when I was ready to eat it, I would defrost it and I would cook it again. So I had rubber for dinner for almost a whole year. But yeah, that time, and I got a little flat in Hamtramck again just to do artwork and just to focus on getting a new body of work so I can apply, you know, to better graduate schools that really fit my style of art and not just what the top art schools are in the nation. And it was a great time. And I look at it as almost a novitiate, a year of silence in which I could hear the Lord of where I'm supposed to be.

Fr. Craig:
Now, when I'm looking back hindsight 2020, you know, cell phones were not really popular at the time, of course they weren't smartphones at all. The internet wasn't as fast. So I think I had just a land line with like dial-up internet. So wasn't on the internet much. I didn't bring a TV with me. I had an old radio and basically what I started to do was read books for the first time in my life. Holy books, Lives of the Saints, CS Lewis, the Narnia series I really liked, had a big influence on me. He did a space trilogy that is just amazing. I hope they make a movie one day of it. You know, these great books. And while I would read these books, I'd be praying as well, and I'd be making art and sometimes a lot of time in silence.

Fr. Craig:
And that time in silence when I was making art, I think God was speaking to me. I found God in beauty, or rather God spoke to me through beauty. And it was when I was doing this artwork that I just really felt that the Lord was kind of gently moving me in a direction towards him. And I wasn't really talking to anybody about the priesthood. I think the only person that sort of knew was my mother. And she would say, "Oh, you're going to be a priest." And I'd be like, "I don't want to be a priest." And she's like, "No, you're going to be a priest." And I'm like, "No, I don't want to be a priest," you know. But it was there in the back of my mind. And just like you, Fr. David, it seemed like at one point at Christmas time, the Lord said, "Listen, if you want to be an artist, say yes to it and do it full force, don't give it your half, give it a hundred percent and do it and do it well. Or be a priest. I'm calling you to that. Or just really just see, consider it. And go on a discernment weekend and say yes to the possibility that you're called to the priesthood."

Fr. Craig:
And that's when I thought, yeah, I think that's what I want to do. And then I told my parents and, you know, after, I think only until after I applied and was accepted did I tell them, most other people, my friends and different things like that. But it was at Christmas time that I received that grace. And it's usually at Christmas time that I received many different graces. As I said, I was an underachiever in high school. I lived sort of the party lifestyle, and I could tell like five different types of vocation stories about what my life was like and how God spoke to me. And I've had many, many, many miracles happen in my life that are just crazy. And maybe we can talk about them in some other time or in another podcast, but God really needed to speak to me in a really big way.

Fr. Craig:
And to really say yes to the life that he was calling me to. It's funny, I was, you know, talking to my friend and he's like, "You know, you're a priest and there's not too many priests that, that could say that they jumped down from the second level of COBO Arena to get into the mosh pit at a Rage Against the Machine concert so that you could body surf all night long." That was me, you know? That was my life. You know, I wanted to, you know, do crazy things. If you don't have a purpose in life, you're going to be searching for something. And I was searching, I didn't know where I was going.

Fr. David:
Searching in the mosh pit.

Fr. Craig:
Searching in the mosh pit. Definitely. Yeah. You know, when you get a face kick, you know, you really, kind of wake up a little bit. [laughs]

Fr. David:
[laughs] Reevaluate your life.

Fr. Craig:
When you get dropped body surfing, you know, God speaks to you sometimes in that. But, you know, I think just to highlight again that, you know, our stories, Fr. David's and mine are a little bit different and that's okay. Just as the 12 apostles were completely different, just as everybody has their a unique relationship with God that God calls us from any type of life. Because it's not us who make ourselves worthy. We don't merit. It. It's a gift from God. You know, God's mercy, God's love is an infinite love and an infinite merciful will that — it's just a gift to us. We can't merit it. There's nothing we can do to make God hate us. There's nothing we can do to make God love us. God already loves us with an infinite love and we just have to respond as children of God. And he can take any heart in any person, as long as we're open to it and become what he wants us to be. And that's a great thing. So if anybody's listening, who thinks "I'm not holy enough to become a priest" or, "Oh, I can't do that. You know, I have too much to offer the world. I get all A's in school and I'm going to be a doctor."

Fr. Craig:
[laughs] Right, Fr. David?

Fr. David:
[laughs] That's right. Well, and you know, it's funny, "I'm not holy enough to become a priest." I think that was, that was my parents' response when I told them in high school, you know, that I think I'm going to do this. They're like, "You? Aren't priests supposed to be holy?" But, you know, Father, I — talking about God's love and it's unconditional. And it strikes me too, just as you know, telling my story and hearing yours, that it's also unique to each person, right? And like, as an artist, God spoke to you through beauty, you know? And he speaks to each person in exactly the way that they're going to be able to hear. And I mean, it's always up to us to listen, but knowing that he is speaking and just to be able to find that often in the silences, I mean, that's the work of discernment, it's the work of a lifetime.

Fr. Craig:
Yeah. And what I find too is, at least — I've only been in the Vocation Office for almost a year now, but only about like seven months full time, is that when guys do come and talk to me, they're worried about somehow that their personality or their gifts or their desires are somehow going to be squashed. That God's not going to use them. And in fact, I think God magnifies those gifts and those desires, you know? I've been able to do so much stuff as an artist because of the priesthood. And, you know, I think with you with, you know, schooling and all the different things that seminary has to offer. I mean, for me, it was really hard to make it through seminary. To live such a structured life when sometimes I'd go to bed at four o'clock in the morning from work and stay up, you know. You know, there's something for everybody.

Fr. Craig:
And God does not take our desires and our gifts and throw them away, but God uses those gifts and those desires for his glory always. Well, thank you, Fr. David, for really kind of explaining your vocation story. I know we live together, but we don't talk about these things when we're in the rectory together. I think we've watched the news together. We've watched a couple of movies together as a house, but you know, sometimes priests don't sit around and talk about their vocation story. So, as the listeners are learning about you, I'm learning about you as well. And it's just kind of interesting to see that, even though we're so different that, we still have some similarities and now God was calling us, and I think silence is for anybody. If you want to hear God call you, you have to have some type of silence in your life.

Fr. Craig:
And if it's hard for you, start off with just five minutes of shutting everything off. You know, sit in your closet if you have to just beg the Lord, "Speak to me, and I need silence," and find it. And God will talk to you if you ask him to, and the Lord will reveal his will for your life. And of course, ask you. He won't, again, force his will on you. He'll ask you. And it's a beautiful thing. Fr. David, do you have anything else to say that you, you know, before we finish up our first podcast?

Fr. David:
You know, Fr. Craig, it's been it's been fun hearing your story as well. Like you said, we live together, but oftentimes we're talking about lighter things. So it's good to just hear that. And I just echo what you said, God always invites, right? He never forces. And the question is just whether we're ready to embark on what will ultimately be an adventure, right? We don't know where it leads, but we know that if we're following him, we're never going to regret it.

Fr. Craig:
Yeah. And I like how you said adventure, because it truly is an adventure. I would have never thought that different things that I have done in my life because I follow the Lord. You know? I mean, I talked a little bit about how I like to party and to do wild things, but it's when I gave myself to the Lord that I actually started to do wild and fun things. And it wasn't in selfishness. It was for God's glory, and it's just amazing. You know, if you're looking for fulfillment, if you're looking for happiness, if you're looking for joy, it comes with following Christ. Does the cross come with it? Yes. Any vocation, there's a cross. I mean, if we're going to be Christians within this world, the Lord says, "If they persecuted me, they're going to persecute you."

Fr. Craig:
But like those disciples that, you know, walked away having joy for being persecuted in the Lord, that we can even have joy in our persecution as well. So this is a beautiful life. I love being a priest. I'm sure Fr. David, you really love being a priest already.

Fr. David:
I love it. I love it.

Fr. Craig:
And so this podcast, we just want to keep on talking about what it means to be a priest, what the day in the life of a priest is like, share some fun stories with you. Talk about discernment, what discernment is all about, who God calls and how they call how are they are called. We're going to invite some guests on our show as well, talk to different priests and their vocation story. Maybe even talk a little bit about what's it like in the seminary and what life is going to be like for the next six to eight or 10 years, depending on where you're at in your life. So please tune into the next episode of Men of the Hearts podcast. We're here every month to talk about all these wonderful things, all the goodness of the priesthood.