Balal Hankins:
Hey everyone, it's your favorite new co-host, Balal Hankins here for a quick detour before we start the show. This spring will bring our 10th season of Elixir Wizards and we are so thankful to you all for tuning in each and every week. We would love to make the show even better for you. So we created a short listener survey to get some feedback. If you could do us a quick favor and take two minutes to complete the survey, we promise to come back bigger and better in our tenth season. To take the survey, just click the link in our show notes for this episode or visit smr.tl/survey2022. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedules to help us understand how we can create an even better podcast for you. And now on with the show.

Owen Bickford:
Welcome to the season nine finale of Elixir Wizards, a podcast brought to you by Smart Logic, a custom web and mobile development shop based in Baltimore. My name is Owen Bickford and I'll be your host today. I'm joined by my co-host, [inaudible 00:01:03], Dan Ivavich, and Balal Hankins. Hello everyone.

Dan Ivavich:
Hello.

Cindy:
Hey.

Balal Hankins:
Hi.

Owen Bickford:
All right, so this season's theme is parsing the particulars. We've spent the last few months speaking to some amazing people who've taught us so much about the particulars of so many different subjects. We're so grateful to you, our guest, for coming along with us for the ride. So Dan, can you give us a little bit about the backstory for the season's theme?

Dan Ivavich:
Sure. Happy to. I think when we think about themes for each season, it's how can we push on what we've already done before? How can we learn more about the great work that people are doing in Elixir? And this year, really the focus was on how do we go deeper? How do we get more about the great work someone's doing? We've done a lot of, here's my library, here's what I'm working on, here's what I'm running in production. And that's great, it's valuable, but we really wanted to dive deeper into the real challenging problems people are solving, why they're really reaching to Elixir, why this community is as great as it is, why it's growing in the way that it is.
And I think just looking at from when we started to now, there's been a lot of great announcements. There's stuff that's happened that we haven't even haven't had a chance to talk about on the podcast because it's been happening in real time and maybe that's fitting, maybe that's just telling for where this community is. But the goal here was to get into the details and I think that we did, and I feel really great about it.

Cindy:
I remember also we were leading into Elixir Conf and Dave Lucia had asked me to proofread a blog post he was writing about observability. And I remember proofreading it and saying, I think I'm following this, but I'm going to be honest. I don't really know a lot about this subject. And I remember thinking, oh, how great would it be if Dave just came on and explained what this is and what goes into it, what kind of backstory you need to know to more about observability and what is observability in a nutshell but also deeper? And I just had all these questions just upfront about reading that. And so Dave was our first episode when we were thinking about that kind of thing and deciding on the season's theme.

Owen Bickford:
Since that episode, I've written my first telemetry event. I've used the Span, I've used Execute, I've attached some telemetry events and it's glorious. It's amazing.

Dan Ivavich:
That's really great. And I think Observability was a really strong start to the season because it's something that gets mentioned all the time, maybe often later than it should. And I think starting off with a deep dive into why, how, what are the tools that are available to you? The Elixir story here with Telemetry is so great, it's so strong that it's just you put this in and a lot of the hard work to get the metrics into another tool have been done for you. We've been using Telemetry with Prometheus for a long time and hearing Dave talk about the really tight integrations that you can get with others things, where you're even exporting to can be changed so easily these days with the use of telemetry and instrumenting correctly and the ability to pull Telemetry out of libraries that you didn't even write and hook into them and react to them, measure on them. It's a great story here where you can leverage someone else's work. It's what this whole community open source is all about and do so in a way that is so unobtrusive to your own work.

Owen Bickford:
Writing the Telemetry events and the hand loose for this framework I'm working on, it's been way easier than I thought it was going to be. I think I just kind of put it off for a while. The API seems to be really stable and friendly for a developer and I'm really excited. I think the next step for me on that domain is going to be hooking into Prometheus and building some live books that can display Telemetry events as an application is doing some stuff. So that's going to be really cool.

Cindy:
I'm also curious, Balal, since you are our newest host and are I guess out of the four of us, the newest to engineering as a whole, you must have absorbed a lot this season. What was the most interesting thing that you learned?

Balal Hankins:
Oh, yeah. I think really just appreciating the wide range of guests that we did have on here. One of my favorite moments was the Bowery Farms when they said they were growing strawberries and I was like, we're growing strawberries with Elixir. Even if it's not directly, it's still like, wow, you can grow strawberries with Elixir. But it's like I really appreciated getting to see more I guess real world use cases of what you could possibly build with this. Because I know especially starting out, I feel like in anything, it's hard to see what you could turn this tool or a library or a framework into. And so for me, being new to Elixir and engineering as a whole, I really appreciated to talk to people at different levels too. That was awesome.

Owen Bickford:
Yeah, we covered... I'm looking at the list of episodes and we've got a lot of variety. A lot of variety in experience, a lot of variety of the nature of people's work. So we've not only got engineers, we've got designer from our own team, Harper who had a really great episode. And we've had a QA engineer, if I'm getting her title, Jenny Bramble, who was on an episode. And a lot of different engineers from different types of organizations solving very different problems. So I'm really happy with the variety in our conversations here.

Dan Ivavich:
Yeah, I think that's always something when we're selecting a topic here. It's on one level we don't want to have a theme because we feel it can be restricting. But I think it's also great to have something to say, okay, this is what we're shooting for. A lot of guests don't feel like they have anything to say and we can kind of narrow in on, oh, well, we want you to go deep on what you are passionate about. And you mentioned Harper, I think something that's always stood out for me with her is she said, oh, I will listen to anyone talk about what they're passionate about, even if I don't care what it is they're talking about. Because when somebody's passionate about something, it becomes exciting. I think we had a really great set of episodes this season of people just talking about what they are passionate about and why Elixir is helping with that passion. And that's been a great story to tell.

Cindy:
One conversation that I was so excited to finally have was a recent episode with my friend Joe Martin and also a friend Frank [inaudible 00:07:40] of the, as we called it, the nerves game. What in particular I was excited to see with this conversation is that we spent a lot of time as Elixirs talking to other Elixirs about Elixir. It's what we like to do, but there is something really interesting and rewarding to see about having conversation with a non-Elixirs to talk to somebody who is an expert in a particular Elixir field.
So in this case, Joe had 10 years behind him of embedded systems work and not any basically Elixir experience. And so these kinds of conversations I think are important to see Elixir experts explain to other people who Elixir could be solving their problems about why Elixir is interesting or engaging or easier or harder. You never know. And so that was a really rewarding conversation to see come to life. I'd love to have those conversations more and more, not just nerves, but other facets of Elixir with people who are Elixir enthusiasts or Elixir interested or maybe even some non-believers, because I think it makes for a good conversation.

Owen Bickford:
Yeah, so glad that conversation was recorded because I would've had FOMO if you were trying to recap it. I listened to it a few days ago and that was an amazing conversation about nerves.

Dan Ivavich:
Bringing in that kind of different perspective, I think I've talked about nerves at various meetups. I've seen Frank present about it on a number of times, and usually it's a room full of Elixirs who are new to embedded. And I think getting somebody who's familiar with embedded and new to Elixir was a really different and interesting perspective on it. And we think a lot about how Elixir's growing in terms of the problems it's solving. But also part of this is how do we get people to understand that it is a solution to their problems when they have no familiarity with it at all. And it was a unique episode for us to kind of come at it from that other direction.

Owen Bickford:
Are there some other episodes that we found particularly interesting?

Dan Ivavich:
I mean, I know much to this [inaudible 00:09:48] team's joy, this was the first time we talked about Live View extensively, and I was not frustrated by its presentation. My view on live view has changed drastically throughout this season, in part because of

Dan Ivavich:
... or because of just where LiveView is today and some of the demonstrations of it that we've been able to apply to some of the work that we're doing here. So I really feel-

Cindy:
We do have to quickly clear the air, Dan, with Balaal here, that Balaal, I did not purposefully make you sick, so that Dan could be on that episode with Live View. It was the running joke for a while that Dan ... So the episode in questions was with Jason Stubbs Formally A Rocking Cat, and I think Balaal was originally the co-host on the episode. And so, Balaal, you weren't feeling well and so Dan hopped in. And then Dan was like, "Cindy, did you do this on purpose? I was like, "This was just the universe. I'm sorry."

Dan Ivavich:
No. If you weren't so many thousands of miles away, it would be very suspicious.

Balaal:
I did really like the one with Frank, because I had no experience with nerves. And I felt like I learned a lot just in that conversation between, I guess, the knowledge levels of both of them. I feel like I learned a lot more than going and trying to just look up some research. I really liked the episode with Kate, though. I may be biased because I'm also a junior developer, but I was like, "Ha!" I feel just feeling similar, just going through the motions. And some of the stuff that she was speaking about her challenges really resonated with me.

Owen Bickford:
Yeah. I hope that episode made sense. It was a different episode, so we were definitely diving into the particulars of Gen Servers and I could only do that episode after having studied up on LiveView and the underlying gen stuff earlier this year, back in January. So, that was very helpful and I'm glad to hear that the episode has at least one fan. Yeah, that was a fun conversation and being able to unpack the things I'd learned about Gen Servers. And she was asking some really great questions and everything. So, yeah.

Dan Ivavich:
I think something that was good about this season as a whole, because of the deep dives is, we took words that you hear in passing, whether it's Worker Q, LiveView, Gen Server, observability, telemetry and instead of just making it part of a larger conversation and whether you're familiar with it or not, the conversation moves on. We went deeper into it. And I think the episode with Kate talking about Gen Servers with somebody who learned them recently was an interesting thing for everyone to hear and understand. You often learn these things and you move on and you forget what that journey was like. And I think bringing us all along for the journey, again across all of these topics, was a worthwhile endeavor and I'm glad that we did it.

Owen Bickford:
Yeah. It was great to get Harper's input as well. So, I've worked with Harper on project or two I think now, and hearing how she's using Tailwind to solve her problems and also coordinate with engineers on some projects. It's some cool stuff.

Dan Ivavich:
And in a season when we're finally saying, "Yes, LiveView" or what ... Oh, sorry. I'm not projecting onto you. Or, When I'm finally saying, "Yes, LiveView" to have our designer come in and speak to Tailwind, the work that we're doing and the componentization of that, where that can all intersect, I think is of particular interest. And we're always thinking about how to best collaborate in that way. Right?
And LiveView is in a sense of, well, we don't ... Let's not collaborate about the front end. Let's just implement it all on the server. But, it still has to look good and how does that come together? And one of the "Aha!" tipping points for me on LiveView was at [inaudible 00:13:43] and Chris's keynote and talking about the componentization and putting all the utility classes of Tailwind into the component in the code in one place.
Now, if you ever need to change them, you do it once and you get the dream of component reuse that's exists in every framework, but feels, I don't know, feels pretty solid, pretty stable here on the LiveView side. It's a big win for productivity. It's a win for developer happiness. And as a consultancy for us, if those things are optimal and we can move quickly, then it's a win for clients too. And the product itself that will be deployed sooner, iterated on more quickly, get more iterations in before the magical deadline of money or time or whatever it is. And so, I appreciate [inaudible 00:14:24] ... we've been talking about those optimizations across the board in lots of different ways with this season.

Owen Bickford:
So, I'm curious, who was on the episode with Roman Mars? I mean, Tyler Young?

Dan Ivavich:
The Felt. Felt maps.

Cindy:
I believe-

Balaal:
That was I and Cindy.

Cindy:
Yeah.

Dan Ivavich:
That was a [inaudible 00:14:44]?

Cindy:
Mm-hmm. I mean, I intro the episode with me feeling like a map nerd, in that I just think they're cool, not necessarily, because I know a lot about it. I didn't study cartography or anything. I just love staring at maps. It makes me happy. So it was really cool to talk about geo mapping, as particularly interesting to me is, because it was a potential way for me to graduate college was to major in GIS. I wasn't doing well at computer science. I ended up going for a bachelor in studio art. But, I could have picked ... The only other related to digital something or the other information systems wasn't quite a thing. GIS was the other option. So, it was interesting to talk to somebody who also didn't study it, but is doing it now. So, that was really fun. And then Balaal, I think you were also learning something particular about it. Right?

Balaal:
Yeah. Well, I also just really liked the whole Felts, that whole concept. And I did use the maps on one of my road trips and I got lots of pleasure from and satisfaction from drawing on the map. And the marker's very ... It's like a perfect marker. I don't know. But-

Cindy:
You used the Felt product, to be clear. Right?

Balaal:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To be clear, their map making, but to plan out my road trip so I could map out where I was going to stop. And, yeah. It was fun. But I also really enjoyed speaking with Tyler, because I feel like he did a great job of explaining certain terms and just stuff in working with GIS that we wouldn't know, or people wouldn't understand.

Owen Bickford:
Yeah. It's one of those skills, you wouldn't even know it exists until you need it for a project or some app that you're working on. Or maybe you're deciding what course to take in college. I don't know. I only encountered GIS, I think, maybe a couple years ago for some other work that I was doing. But I still didn't go deep on it, because it wasn't ... The data that I was using wasn't really related. It was just, I saw it in the database.

Cindy:
One particular subject that I thought was really impactful for me, when I think of how it feel ... I'm not speaking for you Dan. But, how it feels, the LiveView episode was one of the more impactful episodes for you. But I think the one that stamps on my heart is the Ecto queries episode with Mark and David from ThinkingElixir. Because, I feel like if I had a mark the last few months of my learning and growing, a lot of it has to do with going really far into Ecto, trying to read a lot of books and tutorials and talking to the experts or the people who are building out Elixir in production, the interactive website book that David is working on.
That was just so cool to really dive into all the different things that you can do with Ecto. I was taking a more traditional approach, and Owen, you were talking about some of the ETL stuff that you were working on and what you've been doing with Ecto in regards to that. And that was just really, really nice. And then we got to continue some of that conversation on the ThinkingElixir podcast after that, which was cool.

Owen Bickford:
Right. Yeah. And I've also, have even done more stuff with Ecto lately. I've made some custom types to shape shift the data a little bit. Trimming strings and formatting emails is the name of the game. So, yeah. There was a lot of to unpack about Ecto there. So that was a really fun couple of conversations.
Yeah. I think as far as pure fun and joy, I think the clear winner there was probably the one with Jenny QA testing and coordinating between QA engineers and designers and everything else. And, just her energy is just unmatched on stage, and I would say in person, but over probably in person too, but on the call. So that was a really fun conversation, hearing from someone who works in QA, whereas haven't had a lot of projects where I've had a dedicated QA team or QA person, at least who I'm interacting with on a regular basis. So it was great to hear feedback. And also she was impressed with the readability of Elixir as also an outsider. So, that was a fun combo.

Cindy:
I'm Also curious, because at the time of recording, the episode came out today, who talked to Chris Miller? And how that conversation went?

Owen Bickford:
That was Dan and I.

Dan Ivavich:
Yep.

Owen Bickford:
Yeah. So that was also a very interesting conversation and I think he's more of a math nerd than myself. I don't want to speak for Dan. Maybe Dan's just writing algebra all day? All day and all night?

Dan Ivavich:
Nope. Nope. Far more. Far more.

Owen Bickford:
Yeah. But he was able to explain things in a way that I could understand at least. And, yeah, talking about crafting programming languages and sometimes the side project, but also kind of applying those lessons to how you use a programming language. And just understanding how these things work.

Bilal:
Yeah, I think Chris's episode was a really great example of what we were saying before around, you talk to somebody who's passionate about something, it can really change your view on things. Like languages, whether computer, foreign, or otherwise, I think I have learned a lot of computer languages, I have not learned a lot of foreign languages. I have taken classes where I'm supposed to implement or design a programming language. Those were not things I was particularly interested in.
As soon as I realized I could learn programming languages, not foreign languages, I started doing that in high school, pretty hardcore. But hearing Chris talk about why that stuff matters, the value of communication from how we communicate with the computer, to how we communicate with each other, to how all of this fits together and how math is at the core of it, he was just so passionate about it and cared so deeply about it. It was pretty inspiring. In every episode we've recorded, I come away just feeling good about what we're doing, what the people we're interviewing are doing. But that one was special.

Cindy:
Yeah, I ask because he came on the podcast a few seasons ago and I similarly left that conversation feeling like maybe I could have tackled math, if Chris had been in my class or Chris had been my teacher or my TA. I always am baffled by how much of an impact a good teacher can make when you're learning something and how you react to it, because I spent so much of my life just thinking, "I'm bad at math. I'm never going to be good at this."
The system has always spat out a Sundi who can't do math test kind of thing. But talking to Chris a few seasons ago about the relationship between languages and math languages and programming languages, it just really inspired me to want to have that deep knowledge about anything, to understand the relationships to the other things I was doing, because that's just so cool. That's just such a cool way to approach the world.
Chris, if you're listening to this, I do apologize for scaring the bejesus out of you at ElixirConf, when I just ran up and said, "Hey, you were on the podcast before. Hi, nice to meet you in person." I don't think he was expecting that.

Speaker 1:
Just trying to give people heart attacks, huh?

Cindy:
Yes, yes.

Balaal:
Similar to Dan, I listened to the first half of the Chris Miller one, but I really appreciate the... I never thought to compare learning a real language and learning program languages. Then I also, one bit that I caught that I thought was very cool, was that he said his dad taught him some C++, or showed him some C++ when he was seven. I was like, "I want to do that with my kids." Because I even told my mom that when I was learning, just getting started, I was like, "This makes so much sense. It's so logical."

Speaker 1:
Right. Now I'm curious. I regretfully had to miss the recording with Theo Harris, our Aussie friend from down under, because I think I met Theo at the conference, at ElixirConf, back in Aurora this year. I was happy to see them get on the podcast. Also, they've got so much knowledge already, just in the first year or two of Elixir development. What were some nice takeaways from onboarding new developers?

Cindy:
It was validating. We've had this conversation a lot on the podcast, just over the last few years. This topic of onboarding has come up quite a few times and it was validating to hear that things are getting better for Elixir developers, who need more resources just to hear about all of the vast variety of resources that people have at their disposal now. It was just really cool to hear somebody speak to that knowledgeably and talk about accessibility as something that's at the front of their mind when learning Elixir. I also just enjoyed talking about Australian-isms. One thing that sticks out in my head was, I think Theo was drinking coffee. I was like, "Is that a flat white?" Theo was just like, "How did you know that?" I was like, "Because Sydney is the birthplace of flat whites, I just assumed."

Balaal:
Yeah, I learned a lot about Australia on there as well. Moving refrigerators from house to house, that's a mind blowing thing.

Speaker 1:
Now, did we talk about that on the recording or was that after?

Balaal:
I don't know, but-

Cindy:
Because if it was after, we've got to explain that.

Balaal:
They were just talking about how the difference between moving out in America, it was also around the time when I was thinking about moving out and getting all my stuff. I was like, "I'm just going to put all this stuff on the curb. I don't care about this Ninja blender. I don't care about this coffee maker." Then they were talking about how, "Yeah, we move refrigerators," I think Sundi brought it up and I was like, "What?"

Cindy:
Yeah, I had seen a tweet a few years ago. It was an Australian YouTuber who found out that Americans don't move with their appliances. They were like, "Wait, are you telling me that you move into a new home and you're using somebody's dirty old fridge?"

Balaal:
Yeah. I was like, "I never thought about it, but yes, yes I am."

Cindy:
That was really fun to talk to Theo about that. I'm like 70% sure that's after the recording. But yeah, it was fun to talk to Theo for sure.

Balaal:
It was for me, it was very inspiring, given how much knowledge I feel like they have. I didn't realize how long they had been programming for. I was like, "Oh, okay. Wow." Yeah, I really, like you said, similar to Chris Miller, came inspired after that one.

Speaker 1:
Yeah. Seems like you can get ramped up on Elixir pretty quickly. Especially with the right team, with the right mentors. We got a nice community, I think, for bringing people in without making them feel ashamed for not knowing things.

Balaal:
Yeah.

Bilal:
Well, I think that's a good end of season point to make, because we've talked about, one of my other takeaways from the season is just all the problems that Elixir is solving. There's varied, then all the tools that it brings in. We talk about this OTP and the power of that. We talked about Oban. Oban does jobs without the need for [inaudible 00:26:30], without the need for a separate process at the operating system level.
We talk about live view, it does UI without all the other things that you generally need. Something that we're always thinking about here at Smart Logic is bringing developers on, having people, with projects ramp down, projects ramp back up. How do we make things easy and approachable to get started on? Again, a lot of that is tooling and big companies have large teams working on dev tooling and process engineering and all sort of things like that.
But with Elixir and these things, it's just, you get Erlang and Elixir installed and you pull down your depths and you have a working system with one running process and that removes so much barrier. It's not go get Redis, it's not okay now start these three or four different other processes in other tabs. Those systems are great and we have lots of things like that, that we support and there's reasons to segment out those parts.
But when you're just getting started, when you're just new to something that self-contained, everything you need is there. Learning one thing can be applied to lots of different problems, is a really powerful tool set to have for anyone anywhere in their career. But especially if you're starting out,

Cindy:
Since the season was a full season of learning, it stands to reason that some of us might get our assumptions checked. I love that when we talked to Marcelo from [inaudible 00:27:53] that I asked, "What do you want to talk about?" He said, "CQRS." I was like, "Cool, I'll look up what that is later." Then we did. We had the whole conversation and I don't know that I exactly assumed that CRUD was the only way to do things, but I've never personally done it any other way. To hear that there was another approach or option or way of thinking about it, was just like, "Oh, I mean, yeah, of course obviously there are other ways to think about this problem," but it just never came up before. I appreciated that reality check for sure.

Bilal:
Yeah, that's a conversation where I learned a lot. In the lead up to the conversation, also the conversation helped reinforce what I had been learning over the week or two before that. There's these acronyms that you get thrown around engineering, like CQRS, CRDTs, ORNs, everything else. You can't learn everything at once. You have to learn these things usually whenever there's a project or some interest in learning it.
Yeah, the CQRS conversation was very enlightening, gave me a much better understanding of when to reach for CQRS. I think a lot of the stuff we do makes sense in CRUD, but there are definitely times when you need to audit or there are a few use cases for CQRS that are like I said, a different kind of complexity, but it can give your business some reassurances about the reliability of its data. That's I think a really interesting conversation there.

Cindy:
It's funny, Bilal, you mentioned the strawberries earlier and that is absolutely something I think about whenever I see Bowery Farming lettuce in the grocery store. I always look around, I'm like, "But where are the strawberries though?" I've been hearing about these famous strawberries. No, that was a really cool conversation. I think it's interesting to hear about Oban from people who are using it, because I think we've had the Oban creators on before and it's nice to hear it from that perspective as well. It's like, "Why did I create this? Why did I think that the Elixir ecosystem needed to use it?" It's really

Speaker 2:
... really cool to hear two teammates, two programmers who work together talk about how they use a system. That is something that you don't often get an experience to do, because you're usually on your own team. If you think of a traditional product environment, you're on your own team, you work with your own teammates, you talk about your own code, cool.
But to hear on a podcast listening to two teammates who work on a thing and pair program together through it, that was another kind of inspiration for the season, was the idea of listening to people pair program through things. So that was definitely the vibe that I got from talking to Ashley and Kenneth from Bowery Farming and that was really cool.

Speaker 3:
Who?

Speaker 2:
Yeah. That was an episode that you were on with me.

Speaker 4:
Yeah. And I definitely liked how both Kenneth and Ashley, they were answering the same questions, but I feel like they also backed one example up with another in a different area at the farms that they use [inaudible 00:31:02]. Like I said, I feel like I learn better through seeing real-world examples. And especially for something that I don't have a lot of hands-on experience with currently, like Oban, it's definitely nice to hear how you're actually using it in accordance to a business needs rather than a YouTube tutorial that doesn't necessarily apply to real world situations.

Speaker 5:
Yeah. I think I find it so much easier to learn challenging concepts when I have a real problem that needs to be solved. When you're just reading a to-do list guide or yet another blog cred style application tutorial, they get redundant. Your mind wanders to other things, at least if you're me. So yeah, hearing about these real world use cases for Oban, CQRS, LiveU, and everything else, I think it helps me understand when to reach for these tools and in some ways how to use them as well.

Speaker 6:
Yeah, that really resonates with me, Owen, because I spend some of my time in my role here thinking about how we're learning things, how we're improving our skillsets and stuff. And I think there's lots of great ways to learn a framework or learn a tool, but learning a framework or learning a tool only teaches you about that thing. It doesn't necessarily get you to the application problems or to then using that in problem solving. And I think it was great this season to talk to a lot of people who are using these things in a specific way and caring about what the end of it is. Not just saying, okay, this is a thing and it's neat, but saying why and how. And those are important pieces that are kind of the next step over. I know the language or I know the framework or I know the hex package.
Okay, great. Well the particulars and how you put it all together are important and I'm really glad that we had an opportunity to dig into that across the wide variety that, well, not even all of it because we didn't even touch on some of the things with Broadway and Live Book and edX and since the season started, but in only the last few days, the Bumblebee work. So lots of things going on that are great tools, but really the power is going to be in the application of them and digging into that this season was a highlight for me for sure.

Speaker 5:
Are you saying we need to parson the particulars redux in the future?

Speaker 6:
Anytime anyone wants to talk about the details, something, but yeah, we're still figuring out next season, but I don't think we want to do the same thing back to back. But I think what has been a good experience of this season, that's something I want to make sure we continue to do, is this is not just an announcement, here's a thing type of show. We're trying to really get into the why's, the how's, whether the topic is particulars or not I hope that we continue to pull those details out of our guests and surface them so that our people can really get that deeper understanding as to how this is all working together and what they can then go and run and do with it.

Speaker 2:
And I'd also like to acknowledge that you as the listener also really, were a part of creating season nine. We ran some listener surveys earlier this year. We have another one out if you're interested in participating, but we ran some listener surveys earlier this year and got a lot of feedback that people are really itching to hear more technical conversations. And so we listened to our listeners and really tried to find a way to bring you that very technical content and it lined up with a lot of things that I know Owen had been wanting to do, I had been wanting to do. We pulled ball on and Dan came on a little more regularly just to have these technical conversations and we're all engineers. So it's kind of fun to be able to do that and I'm glad we were able to do that particularly because it was what our listeners wanted. So thank you for that feedback and I hope you all get a chance to fill out the one that's currently circulating right now.

Speaker 7:
Links on the show notes.

Speaker 3:
I was waiting for a pun. I thought we were going to-

Speaker 2:
We can't leave without one.

Speaker 7:
I guess I done a few. I didn't know if they got registered. Yeah. So yeah, we've covered so much ground. It's been a great season and we've got many more seasons in our future. So yeah, look forward to getting more survey responses so we kind of know how we're faring and if we need to move, where we can move towards the puck as if I understand anything about sports. So yeah, I think we're going to go ahead and wrap it up. That is it for today. This has been season nine of Elixir Wizards. I'm Owen Bickford, my co-hosts today we're Sunday Mint, Den Ivavich and Beal Hankins. Elixir Wizards is brought to you by Smart Logic with production support from Hangar Studios.
We here at Smart Logic build custom web and mobile software. We work in Elixir Rails, React, Flutter and more. So if you need a piece of custom software built, hit us up. Don't forget to like, subscribe and leave a review. Your reviews help us reach new listeners. You can find us on Twitter at Smart Logic or join the Elixir Wizards discord. The link is on the podcast page. Don't forget to participate in our listener's survey by clicking the link in our show notes, that will help us give you more of what you want from Elixir Wizards in the new year. So we will see you in early spring next year, 2023 for season 10. Season 10 of Elixir Wizards.