Ep. 157. Fintech Insider LIVE from OP's Beach Party in Helsinki
FILE DETAILS
Audio Length: 		01.07.07	
Audio Quality: 		Good	
Number of Interviewers:		3
Number of Interviewees:		8

Start of Audio
	Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to Fintech Insider Live!
ST:	Welcome to Fintech Insider Live, ladies and gentlemen, give yourselves a round of applause for being here. Woo! Fintech Insider is a podcast, primarily. A podcast by enthusiasts, for enthusiasts, all about fintech, and, one of the most popular fintech podcasts in the world. Thanks to you guys. And, I’m joined by my co-host Jason Bates. Jason, how are you, sir?
JB:	I’m good. Hey guys, how are you? So, I’m a co-founder of Starling and Monzo two new digital challenger banks in the UK, and now I build new products and propositions and ventures for the big boys, for the big banks. Well, that’s what I do by day. By night I do this, which is still a bit, kind of, crazy. You go from doing that big, sort of, programme project stuff to standing in a beach in Helsinki, but hey, Sam, you got a better story?
SM:	I always have a better story. Hi everybody, I’m Sam Maule, I represent the US, somebody has to, if you can’t tell I’m dressed like a US gym teacher or volleyball coach, according to the smartass over there. If you want to know what Fintech Insider is, do me a favour, everybody, look to your left, now look to your right, now take a drink, Fintech Insider.
ST:	Yes, thank you very much to OP and to all of the sponsors for putting this show together, we really appreciate this, and this is a little bit different, party in a beach, in Helsinki, who saw that coming? This is our first trip to Finland.
JB:	Yes, and, I mean, is this just not surreal to everyone? I mean it’s driving rain outside, it’s cold, it’s zero degrees and here we are in a beach, with Pina Coladas in the middle of Helsinki. So, thank you OP for sorting that out.
SM:	Yes.
ST:	Thank you OP!
SM:	Yes, I’m actually from Florida, so this is normal for me. Your weather outside, what the hell? [Laughter]. When does the sun come out? Because I’ve been here two days and-, 
ST:	But we’re also-,
SM:	April? Who said April? Yes, get rid of them, that was bad.
JB:	We’re also doing fintech innovation tonight. You’ve heard of Android Pay, yes? You’ve heard of Apple Pay, yes? Pineapple Pay. These badges, they’re worth more than gold tonight, you use them over at the bars, they get you four drinks. I mean this is fintech innovation at its best, it doesn’t get more real than this.
ST:	We’ve got sand, we’ve got drinks, in fact, we’ve got coconuts, we’ve got pretty much everything we need for a party, but now we’ve got a crowd. Crowd, are you ready for Fintech Insider Live?
[Cheering]
SM:	That was good.
ST:	Alright, let’s do this.
JB:	Now, hey, I think you’re jumping the gun here, you’re getting them all riled up, they don’t even know what they’re cheering for. Like, what is this thing? So, this is how it’s going to work, we’ve got some great fintech people to come up and tell us about fintech in the Nordics, how does that all work? We’ve got some experts, we’ve got some players from the industry who we’re going to go and talk to. We’ve got a boat to interview them in. I mean, like, find an event that has a boat to do interviews, that’s just crazy.
SM:	It’s a dingy, we’ve argued about this for frickin’ three hours, that’s not a boat.
ST:	Sam, you’re going to be in a boat later, we’ll send you there.
SM:	It’s a dingy, I’m sorry.
ST:	Alright, we have, joining us, several interview guests. We have a panel, and I’m going to introduce the panel because, oh my goodness, what a panel we have. We have the stars of Nordic fintech. And first we have Jani, who is the VP of Product at Zervant. Jani, welcome to the stage. Thank you for being here, Jani, what a star, thank you for being here. Next, of course, we have the wonderful Marisol Mendez from BBVA, Marisol. 
MM:	Woo! 
ST:	And, of course, AJ, from Holvi. AJ, join us, Sir. Thank you for being here, AJ, thank you, thank you, thank you. I feel like we’re missing someone. We’re missing-, we need-, how about this guy right here? This guy, this guy right here, laying down on the beach towel, Jamie Campbell from Bud, come to the stage.
MM:	Woo!
JC:	Thank you, thank you.
ST:	Alright, so, we’re in Finland, the home of fintech, of course.
JC:	Oh God, there’s going to be a lot of that, isn’t there?
ST:	Yes, yes, we had to start, we had to start. So, thank you for joining us. First of all, I’m going to start with you, Jani, tell me a little bit about Zervant and tell me why do you think that fintech in Finland and the Nordics is really starting to happen?
JT:	Thank you. Yes, I’m Jani Tierala, VP of Product at Zervant. Zervant is a super easy sales invoicing tool for small businesses across Europe. Basically, we help entrepreneurs get paid for their hard work, and we’re also helping them out with invoice financing and trade credit insurance.
ST:	I’m liking the sound of helping entrepreneurs get paid. Anybody an entrepreneur that wants to get paid? So, you need Zervant. Thank you for being with us, Jani, I really appreciate it. Whilst we’re on the subject of entrepreneurs, AJ, tell people about Holvi.
AJ:	So, Holvi is a service which allows micro-entrepreneurs to collect revenue by sending invoices, by setting up a web-shop and selling their products online, and also, on the other side, it allows entrepreneurs to keep track of their expenses and pay their bills. And that-, what that does is it actually gives you a real-time accounts receivable, and accounts payable, so, they know exactly where their business is going.
ST:	Know where you’re going in life, I appreciate that, AJ. And, Marisol, I am so glad to have you with us. BBVA, the star of fintech for many years, and open innovation is what you look after. What is open innovation, exactly?
MM:	Well, open innovation, besides something super cool [laughter] open innovation is a way to connect the outside world, everything amazing that is happening all around the world, with us.
ST:	Connecting the outside world with us. Whilst we’re connecting the outside world to us, Jamie, who can you hear in your coconut?
JC:	Something really insightful.
ST:	Jamie, tell us a little bit about Bud.
JC:	Hi, I’m Jamie Campbell from Bud, which is a London-based fintech company. We are a financial services marketplace, really. We link together fintechs from investment, insurance, pensions, currency exchange, the whole suite of financial services, link them all together and then we license that technology to banks. A few weeks ago, we announced our official partnership with HSBC in the UK, and yes, we’re, kind of, growing-, growing massively and excited to get things kicked off in Europe in the next year.
ST:	Thank you, Jamie. 
JC:	No worries.
ST:	So, let’s talk about the scene here in Finland. Fintech has been growing for a number of years, we’ve had, I think, the hype, are we seeing the delivery? Jani, tell me, do we think that fintech is just hype, or are we going to see it become real and can Finland be the home of it, and why might it be?
JT:	Well, I think there certainly is a lot of real innovation happening there, it’s not just hype. We have demand, especially from all the customers there, both consumers and businesses, who require digital experiences. I think this is what’s driving the innovation.
ST:	You’ve got demand from the customers here in the market, but AJ, tell me, what makes Finland special? What makes the Nordic region spell for fintech?
AJ:	Well, I think it’s actually pretty simple. You look at the European Commission data on the digital economy, and society index, and who are the top three countries there? They’re Finland, Denmark and Sweden. So, actually, people know how to use technology, they’re willing to use it and companies know how to use technology to their advantage, and are willing to produce services. So, you combine a market that wants to do stuff, and the supply that can do it, and that’s it.
ST:	Do you hear that, audience? That means you guys are really smart, that’s why fintech is happening here. You heard it from AJ, you guys are amazing, apparently. Apparently so. Marisol, talk to me though about this region and collaborating with fintechs. With open innovation you’ve had to collaborate with people that might be in this room, what works and what doesn’t work? What hasn’t worked?
MM:	Well, I think that we can sum it up that everything works if we can bring a better solution for our customer needs, together. If each of us is specialising in whatever we do the best. We have one of the best examples here, working with our friends from Holvi.
ST:	Oh, high five, yes.
JC:	What the hell is this?
ST:	It’s love.
MM:	It’s a cool vibe here, right? Yes, we learned from what they are-,
ST:	Competition is breaking out on stage, people, but what did you learn from Holvi? Continue.
JC:	You’ve moved my chair a bit.
MM:	No, the thing is that they are really good at what they do, connecting and giving value to the micro-entrepreneurs, and so the real problems, what they suffer from in their real life, and we know we can learn from them. We give into the equation something interesting, as well, the knowledge in our markets, infrastructure, connection with the-,
ST:	Lots of learning, lots of infrastructure. Jamie, you’ve dealt with a few big banks before, what have you learnt when collaborating with banks? Are they all, like, pretty hip, or are there some that are better than others? What’s going on? What’s really going on? Give me the scoop.
JC:	I think when you’re looking to collaborate with banks, there’s a lot of difficulties, internally, that you’ll face, but everyone is normally very aligned on the fact that they want to create better solutions for their customers. I mean, every bank, you know, they have plastered on all of their brand documents, you know, and they send out emails to all of their employees to make sure that they’re serving their customers better. When it comes to actualising on some of these collaborations, it’s a case of making sure that you have the right technology at the right time, and bringing together a suite of services that really, like, captures that banks need-, whether it’s serving someone better in the wealth sector, or whether it’s speeding up the time for a small business to get a loan. Those are the niche or smaller problems within the larger organisation, which they’re always trying to do better on. That’s where fintech and bank collaboration becomes really special, because-,
ST:	So, collaboration can be special, like we’ve heard a lot about fintech collaboration, I think we’ve heard a lot about it. Have you guys gone that route at Zervant? Have you done any collaboration with the banks, or have you guys been largely outside of the big banks?
JT:	We have definitely had collaborations, we are working with the ING Bank in Belgium, we have, kind of, white label, our own service for them, but effectively the same service. We’re also here because we are collaborating with the OP Bank.
ST:	Oh, you’re collaborating with OP? How has the collaboration helped you?
JT:	For us, in general, what we can provide the big banks is agility and fast innovation, what we get from them often is market access, great brand, also resources. This is not just in the Zervant collaborations, I’ve seen a lot of startup corporation partnerships.
ST:	You feel a lot of this collaboration, they’ve got a lot of customers, you’ve got a lot of agility, and actually it seems like a match made in heaven, but surely, AJ, it can’t all be heaven, right? There’s got to be some challenges. Have you experienced any challenges collaborating with banks, and what would you say would be your superpower versus their superpower?
AJ:	Well, my personal superpower is that I can spellcheck anything faster than anyone.
ST:	You can spellcheck faster than anybody?
AJ:	I absolutely can find all the typos, so that’s my personal superpower, but, of course, with the big banks, I mean the only big bank that we work together with, we’re actually owned by, is BBVA. That collaboration is a very good one, because the roles are very clear, they own us, and they approve the strategy and we execute on that. So, that’s cool, but we have had discussions with a couple of banks, and the interesting bit is that when this deregulation is happening, it actually means that they have to focus on some things. Focus always means you do something, you don’t do other things, and there are clearly openings for fintechs to, sort of, complement what the banks are doing.
ST:	You’re so right. Radical focus is what we need, and speaking of radical focus, let’s have everybody look at Jason. Jason, you’re over there right now, how are you Jason?
JB:	I’m off stage, hey. So, I’m here with Jitendra Kavathekar, Managing Director of Innovation at Accenture.
ST:	Yes, big title, what does that mean?
JK:	Actually, it’s open innovation, and what it means is that similar to what you said, bringing the outside in. For us, we’re a services firm, so, what we’re trying to do is find what’s happening in the ecosystem with the startups, engage with them so we can help our clients go through the major frustrations that they’re going through.
SM:	Feel free to have a beer or a water.
JB:	So, being a big player in the market, how does collaboration work between that fintech and the big bank? Is it all just a shiny, nice interface?
JK:	That’s a great question, and I think if you look at the great panellists here, you’ve got a good cross-section of fintech, but what you don’t have are the fintech companies that are technology-centric companies, AI companies, blockchain companies, ARVR companies. So, in combination, when you look at those technologies, those technologies are helping our clients get through some major shifts. The banks go through major shifts, and those shifts could be triggered by regulatory changes and by regulatory environment, it could be GDPR, that’s hitting everybody right now, it could be a bunch of different things. You just look at open banking, right? Opening up your bank is a pretty extensive process, everything from the technology base in the infrastructure and laying out the access methods, and then what are the actual services? Cybersecurity all around that. So, who are the innovative players that are going to help the banks actually get the technology to go do that? So, we are trying to be that bridge-maker, finding the capable companies that are out there in the startup world, that are bringing differentiated AI technologies, blockchain technologies, cybersecurity technologies, to help do open banking, for example.
JB:	Do you really see that as being what banks need? It might be what they want, in terms of regtech, dealing with GDPR, dealing with their big mainframes, bringing startups in, in order to reduce costs, but surely that’s a thing that’s going to be a problem as we move forward a few years, and we’re talking about completely changing some of their infrastructure.
JK:	Yes, completely changing, and you take a look at wealth management today. Wealth management, the generation that’s passing on their wealth to the next generation, these are two different personalities, these are two different customer personas. So, how do you really know the inheritor of the wealth and how do you interact with them if you’re a wealth management service company? So, what technologies do you use to really get to know them, or how good is your KYC? What are the modes to interact with them? Otherwise you’re going to lose market share because you don’t resonate with that population, right? So, I think it goes both ways, I think it’s not just a technology question, obviously, but the technology’s one of the components, and we see a very fast, kind of, innovative cycle with the startups. So, the question is how do we tap into that and how do we partner with them so that Accenture is doing all the heavy lifting afterwards, which is the integration, of course. There’s also the change management and the consulting, there’s the strategy work, it’s the actual helping our banks get through that whole cycle.
JB:	I think that’s a really insightful point, that actually the big change isn’t really about digital, it’s not about a new interface or a nice app or a website, it’s about operating model and business model change.
JK:	Yes.
JB:	Does that really fall into that digital innovation side, or actually is it a different part of the bank?
JK:	That’s a really good question, right? So, you see the innovation side and you see the core side that has to go through these transformations, but you don’t see the bridge very easily there. Maybe you might debate me on that, but it’s really hard to get from that innovation side into the core business, at least we’re seeing it that way. So, the way we look at it is let’s start with the core business and let’s see what the opportunities are, from a strategy perspective or strategy perspective, and let’s see what the big transformation looks like, and then go pull in the technologies that matter, versus starting with a startup and trying to figure out where it should go.
JB:	Right.
JK:	I mean, that happens, also, but when we’re looking at big transformations, let’s start with the transformation, there’s like seven streams that’s going to happen there, and each one are going to have very interesting players to be a part of that.
JB:	Yes, that technology in the foreground, and suddenly what do we do with a chatbot? What do we do with a blockchain? It’s very different from saying where do we want to be and how do we use technologies and startups to get there.
JK:	Absolutely, you look at anti-money laundering, fraud and risk, AML’s a great use case, right? So, the amount of false positives is very high, and false positives triggers you to go investigate what the issue was, and you find out it was a false positive. So, using AI to understand the signals, so your false positive rate goes down dramatically is a huge saver of cost, right? That’s an efficiency gain. You’re starting with the conversation of AML first, not conversation with AI first, you know? Figure out what the problem is and then go figure out what the technologies are that can go after that.
JB:	Jitendra, thanks for joining us. 
JK:	It’s been a please.
JB:	So, Simon, it’s all about the use case.
ST:	It’s all about the use case, it turns out, it’s all about the use case. So, if you’ve got your use case figured out, if you’re able to collaborate with startups, what happens next? How do you actually execute change? How do you deliver change? Is it all just bullshit if we’re just, sort of, collaborating for the sake of it? If we’re just figuring out our use cases but not executing? Jamie, how do you think about executing? How do you get shit done?
JC:	Yes, I mean, it depends what executing is for you. I mean a lot of banks would say that executing is curating lots of pilots and executing on that, but if you mean executing as getting it to live, there’s a number of different stages that you have to go through. These are big organisations and you’re wanting to enact, you know, quite revolutionary change, especially when you’re talking about, you know, the business model that we’re trying to instil in a number of banks in Europe. I think the steps to do it is just rigorous-, people who are really good finishers. 
ST:	People who are good finishers?
JC:	A lot of people who work in startups and fintech is no exception, a lot of people who do that are really good starters. They have an idea and they’re excited and they want to put stuff on paper and they want to really craft it, and they want to put it in the first customer’s hands and get that first bit of feedback. To enact a live deployment in a bank, you need people who are really fucking good at finishing, and running a project through a bank where you need to integrate multiple systems is not easy. I think the hard yards of landing a contract with a bank is all for nothing if you can’t then-,
ST:	That’s just the start.
JC:	Exactly.
ST:	Getting the contract is just the start, getting it done is everything else. AJ, how do you think about getting it done in Holvi? Especially because you’ve worked with Marisol, and maybe Marisol, you can talk about the experience of having executed and delivered.
AJ:	Actually, we’re in a very good place inside the BBVA organisation structure, because we’re part of what’s called new digital businesses, and we’re one portfolio company in there. We have a pretty free hand at doing what the customers want, so that’s what we do. When in doubt, go to customer, try and learn as fast as you can, try and learn as much as you can, because the company that learns the fastest then executes only the important bits. I think that’s the most important thing.
ST:	I completely agree, that’s absolutely right. So, you’re getting it in the hands of the customers quickly, you’re executing only the important bits, Marisol, is there anything you’d add to that?
MM:	For me, the complete process is-, have you fallen in love before, in your life? Just as if we have a good-, about the matchmaking, you want to make love happen.
ST:	Yes, you do, right? With every startup, it’s about have you fallen in love? How do you make that match happen?
MM:	Love is about filling the needs, in this case, no? Creating the right connections, because we understand our own needs and then, when you’re in love, nobody needs to push you to go faster. So, if there’s a mutual interest and you focus in the right thing, you will get to kiss, you will get to marry.
ST:	If you’re in love, if you are in love, nobody’s forcing you to go faster, that’s the quote of the night. I think that’s going to take it. Jani, anything to add?
JT:	Well, I would add that a key element, which is easier in your case, when you’re actually offering a ready-made product to the banks, and in our case not. In any case, to agree, in the beginning, what this thing is, very clearly, and what it is not. Because if you don’t have agreement on what the end goal is, or it’s loosely defined-,
ST:	You’ve got to know the end goal.
JT:	Yes.
ST:	You have to know the end goal, you absolutely have to keep the ability to put it in the hands of customers, absolutely right. You’ve got to be getting there and have good finishers, and once you’ve got the good finishers, you’ve agreed the goal, you put it in the hands of customers, if you’re going to collaborate, it’s like love. It’s a beautiful thing, but you’ve got to work together, as a partnership. I think that is applause worthy, well done, ladies and gentlemen, that’s beautiful. We made beautiful love happen.
JC:	Please, no, God.
ST:	Moving from falling in love with Marisol, we now have the love boat.
JC:	The love boat.
ST:	The love boat. We have Sam, with?
SM:	I’m with Tuomas, from Holvi, one of the co-founders, your name’s not Tuomas, that’s the US pronunciation. Yes, Holvi’s in the house, evidently, and that’s a big deal.
TT:	Yes, hello everyone. Yes, I don’t know if we’re supposed to rock the boat or-,
SM:	That’s pretty good.
TT:	At least we’re pretty well grounded, but anyway.
SM:	Yes, I’m on my third beer, dude, you might want to sit down, because I’m going to tip this thing. You know at Christmas-, this might be a US thing. At Christmas, when you have all your relatives over and there’s a kid’s table on the side, or at a wedding and you have all the people you don’t like, and you put them in the back? I’m in the fucking kid’s table right now. I don’t know I got stuck with this.
TT:	We love you anyway.
SM:	Yes, I do love you too, shut up. Alright, so, Tuomas, which-, how do you say Tuomas in Finish? How do you say it?
TT:	Tuomas.
SM:	Yes, Tuomas. Let’s talk a little bit about Holvi, again, you’re one of the co-founders, and we had an interesting conversation before this. You were, kind of, talking about the history of Finland, right? In the 1990s?
TT:	Yes.
SM:	The financial crash that happened then. Can you, kind of, walk me through the history real quick? That led up to the creation of Holvi?
TT:	Yes, absolutely. So, when we look at Holvi, so, Holvi was very much born during the financial crisis. So, back in the day, we had an earlier startup called Scred, which-, good name, except that everyone would mispronounce it, you can try to pronounce it or mispronounced it, but anyway, Holvi’s a much better name. So, it was born in 2008, we basically did something much more on the informal side of finance, but with Scred we got to Seedcamp, the UK accelerator, an interesting start to the journey. It was exactly the week when-, the previous weekend Lehman Brothers had gone down, and the event was held in London at a business school. At the lecture hall, in the business school, there was a big list of investment banks, big global banks. We could come to the Seedcamp event every day, every morning, and we would look at the list, okay, which of these guys are still in existence, or which of these guys have merged? So, it was AIG, Merrill Lynch going to the Bank of America, all the UK banks, Lloyds and HBOS. So, that was, kind of, where we got our start, right in the middle of the financial crisis.
SM:	Yes, it’s amazing how much fintech companies came out in 2008, and actually how many are still around, which, by the way, not many, so congratulations, Holvi, on that, for surviving that. You’re in the-, okay Holvi people, drink your beer, shut up, that’s great. You’re literally-, in fintech ages you’re a dinosaur now, because you’ve been around since then, but how did you pivot from 2008 to what Holvi is today? What led to that?
TT:	Yes, so, the Holvi founding team, we’d always been entrepreneurs, so, a bunch of us had been running our own software consultancy, our Head of Product, Mikko Teerenhovi, who’s somewhere here, so he was running his own graphic design consultancy. So, we’d been entrepreneurs, and we’d also built some software for ourselves, for us to run our businesses, and some of the software is actually used by Slush. So, we run the finances of Slush, for the first four years, until they actually grew out of the Holvi target space, so, Slush is not exactly a small business anymore. So, we parted ways in good terms with Slush. Yes, we’d been running our own businesses, we built software to run those businesses, and then around 2010, 2011, the first payment service directive came around. So, not PSD2, PSD1, and PSD1 brought a new possibility called payment institutions, that you could actually run, very much, a lightweight financial institution, but do all the services that entrepreneurs would require. So, we, kind of, looked at the pieces that we had, there was very favourable regulation, regulation that actually made things possible. We had our existing code, our existing service and we just basically looked at, okay, the existing incumbent banks really don’t have good services for small businesses, could we actually build something better? We decided, yes, we can, and the rest is history.
SM:	Yes, I mean some of the best fintech companies, in my opinion, are created around a problem they had, that was personal to them. So, you know, for example, in the UK there’s Monese and the founder there came over from Europe, went to the UK, tried to open a bank account and it was hell on earth, couldn’t do it. Azimo, which is a cross-border payments, same thing, woman tried to move money back to her mother in Poland and it was easier to strap cash to her body, fly on Ryanair and hand the cash to her mom. That was faster than actually doing it. So, because of that experience she created her own company. So, I love the pivot, but there’s also risk involved in that, because I think we talked about this, right? 
TT:	Yes.
SM:	You look at it and go, oh, we’ve got a great solution, then you go out and look at the market to see if anybody’s doing it, and when they aren’t, you have to ask yourself, is there a frickin’ reason no one’s doing this? I mean, how did you guys actually take that leap and decide you were going to go forward with that?
TT:	Well, I mean, we absolutely knew that there was a need in the market, there really wasn’t anything for, really, the small businesses, the micro-entrepreneurs, there was good services for individuals and there was reasonable services for big corporates. For the micro-enterprises, there was really nothing out there. We really knew that the need was there, we had the need ourselves, then it was really just getting a couple of good investors onboard, and then running with it and getting investors who bought into the vision, as well, that yes, this actually can be done.
SM:	There’s a lot of-, for successful companies, and Holvi we put right up there, right? I mean Wired You’re In, You’re Out ranks you as one of the best startups. You’re not a startup, by the way, anymore, but one of those best tech startups, in Finland, I think, I don’t know, five, six years running. There’s the factor of being able to pivot, right? That’s incredibly important, but timing is also incredibly important, pivoting at the right time and finding that right solution, a little bit of luck is nice. One thing, I’m from Florida, so, I have no clue, first time in Helsinki, what’s the small business setup like, as far as fintech is concerned, right? When you’re marketing to them? Is it similar, like, to the UK? Is it similar to Germany? I have no clue, so what is that like here?
TT:	Well, I mean, it’s something like UK, of course, is very small business friendly, Germany, much more traditional, Finland is somewhere in between, but culturally what’s really changed in the past ten years, and I mean Slush has been a big thing in that, in Finland, that entrepreneurship is a valid career path. You have young people coming out of universities and they want to set up their own company or they want to join a growing startup or a growing company, instead of going to a big corporate. I mean, ten years ago it was that you go to Nokia, I mean, that was a very solid, respectable career path. Well, that’s not quite there anymore, especially with Nokia, but really entrepreneurship has become a thing and the support of the whole ecosystem is now really there with all the events, with investors, and also the government support.
SM:	I think that’s a massive shift in mindset within Finland and the Nordics, I think we had talked about you told me in the ‘90s, that there was a financial crash that took place, I think when the Soviet Union collapsed?
TT:	Yes.
SM:	So, this idea of I don’t work for one company for 40 years, get my pension and retire, it’s the idea of entrepreneurship, multiple jobs, right?
TT:	Yes.
SM:	So, you talked a little bit about the UK, if I’m not mistaken you guys are thinking expansion? You’re talking going outside of just Finland, but maybe the UK and other countries, is that on your plate right now?
TT:	Well, I mean, we are now in four markets in Europe, and our market is Europe. Basically, our regulation covers all of the European economic area, and we are continually adding new markets, including next year, so, some markets coming up.
SM:	Yes, this is a very US term, so apologies, drink your beer and go with it, that’s a very ballsy move, to do that, because the second you go beyond your border, right? I mean it’s easy to-, well, it’s not easy, but understanding regulation within Finland, for example, well, then the second you step over and you go to Sweden, and then you step outside of that and you talk about Germany and the UK. How do you work with regulators for that? How do you ease their concerns when you’re saying, alright, now we’re ready to move?
TT:	Yes, I mean, of course Europe these days, it’s the best place in the world to build a fintech company, I mean the regulation is actually good, it’s proportional, it’s something reasonable. Like the services that we do, basically, a current account and the transactional banking services, before payment institutions, you really didn’t-, it was a grey area, you didn’t know what is allowed to do, what is not allowed to do. Whereas now, with sensible regulation, you actually have the clarity that, okay, get regulated, it’s reasonably straightforward, and you know all of Europe is open for you to tackle. I mean, under single regulation. So, in that sense we’re big fans of Europe, European Union, and regulation, overall, sensible regulation is a good thing.
SM:	So, you’re obviously not British. Her Jason, where are you at? Hey Brexit, how’s that going? Dumb ass country, sorry. I’m from the US, I’ve got absolutely no grounds to call Brexit stupid. I apologise to everybody, I’m really sorry, God, I’m sorry. It’s very interesting to hear a co-founder of a fintech startup say, “I like the regulation side of it and we have a regulation-friendly environment.” We talked about this earlier, that probably the most dangerous area for a company is that grey area, right? Where the rules aren’t really defined. You actually laid some groundwork for that, when you started talking about that at Holvi. So, what was that process like with the regulators, when you’re in that grey area and you say, “I’m ready to do this”?
TT:	Well, I mean, we did what every entrepreneur should do, and we started from first principles, and we went to the source, we went to the-, basically EU directives. We took the rulebook, we read the rulebook, we knew the rulebook before we approached the regulator. So, we could actually very clearly tell what we’re doing, why this is within the regulation that we’re looking to operate under. So, it is really knowing the space where you operate.
SM:	The other thing you had talked about, and I think this is a secret, so if you’re a fintech founder, this is one of the most important points or takeaways you’re going to get today. What’s the name of your dog?
TT:	Senna.
SM:	Senna, alright, rescue dog, right? Estonian-frickin’-something-something, what kind of dog?
TT:	Estonia, yes.
SM:	Yes, Estonia rescue dog. So, my understanding is she was-, or he, whatever the dog is, was there in the early days, in your office, and what you would do is when the regulators would come in and they’d ask you for paperwork, you’d say, “I’ll get that, here, can you please hold my dog?” True?
TT:	Yes, something like that, it usually helps.
SM:	Alright, so, if you’re doing a startup, go buy a frickin’ dog, I don’t care if you like it. Don’t get a cat, you get a cat, you’re a moron, okay? Get a dog, put it in the office, when the regulator comes, and you go, “Oh shit,” hand the dog to the regulator, okay? Take a long frickin’ time, walk away, take a long time, and then come back and hopefully they’ll forget what the hell ever happened, and you can be Holvi, and get bought by BBVA and life is really good. Tuomas, thank you so much, Jason, throwing back to you.
JB:	Can we have a round of applause for co-founder of Holvi? Yes.
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JB:	So, we’ve heard a bit about fintechs, we’ve heard a bit about banks, we’ve heard a bit about how they work together and spoken to a fintech founder on how that works. If you’re a bank or a fintech in Sweden, in Norway, in Denmark, in Finland, like, where do you attack? What’s that beachhead? Actually, from the outside world, it looks like payments is the thing. You know, Vipps, Swish, a whole series of startups that have evolved and really attacked payments. Why? Why is payments the place to start? AJ?
AJ:	Well, especially for our customer segment, the micro-entrepreneurs, I mean what’s the one thing they want to do? They want to get money in, they need to pay bills out. So, what’s in the core of their business? It’s payments, and, of course, as Tuomas was saying, PSD1, the previous PSD, allowed-, deregulated that, or actually made it very clear, made the rules very clear, how can a payment institution get in there? So, of course, you want to be doing what your customer wants you to do, you know, you want to be easing their most difficult bit in their business, which is getting money in and getting money out.
JB:	So, we’ve got, essentially, a change in regulation, or a brand-new technology, or something suddenly creates this hole, this gap, that actually the big incumbents maybe can’t get into fast enough.
AJ:	Or don’t want to get in-,
JB:	Or don’t want to get into.
AJ:	Yes.
JB:	What do you think, Marisol?
MM:	Well, I think that’s true, there’s a lot of opportunity in payments, but there are so many other opportunities around that, you know? We were discussing before, like, how about solutions for companies, for example, as a bank, we’re looking for ways to improve the way that our client customers solve their own problems. We can help them and we can-, there are a lot of additional value that we can give to our retail and client customers, behind payments. Payments is immediate and you and me and everybody pays, that’s true, but there are so many other things around that.
JB:	I think that’s interesting, from a point of view of PSD2 obviously is coming along and, a bit like PSD1, suddenly it opens the market, suddenly it opens an opportunity to do great things, which I guess is where Bud comes in?
JC:	Well, I was going to say about payments, is that it really is the pointy end of finance, it’s the bit of the finance, like, ecosystem that normal people touch more than anything else. You know, when you look at all the opportunities around there, there are so many little, tiny pieces that you can make quicker, make smoother, make more secure, you know, or add pieces to it, like if you haven’t got that money at the point of payment, a credit solution which is sitting behind it, Klarna is a great example, you know, here, who provide a service like that. There are so many micro-innovation areas around payments, because it’s everyone’s doing it, you know? Everyone who has a card, or a phone is doing payments and that’s why there’s going to be so many innovations around there, constantly.
JB:	What do you think, Jani?
JT:	Well, I completely agree here, I think this change and the focus on payments is driven by consumer behaviour and specifically the change there, we don’t shop like we shopped ten or twenty years ago. There simply haven’t been means to do online payments. Of course, it was impossible, now we’re spending a lot there, we’re also carrying our smartphones with us all over, we didn’t do that before, that opens up these possibilities. I think we behave differently.
JB:	One of the things that we often talk to banks about are three trends, three changes. The move from digitising something to making it digital, and how people address that. The move from commodity products to intelligent services, and actually how are we moving from payment and account alone just being a thing, and turning it into a service? The third piece is that move from a channel, from a silo, through to end to end journeys. I think that, again, interests me, because payments are no longer a single thing of move money from one place to another, which people have been doing pretty well for a very long time. Suddenly, there’s a whole group of services around that.
JC:	Yes, and I think, just touching on the idea of serving an end to end journey, when you take that outside of payments and you go into, like, hardcore banking, like mortgages and savings products and pensions and stuff like that. If you take a house buying experience, from end to end, it isn’t just a mortgage, which a bank-, would be the product that a bank serves for a customer at that-, in that instance. A mortgage buying experience for a couple would be shared budgeting, it would be credit score optimisation to make me more of an attractive lender. It would be the mortgage product. Then it’s the utilities that are in my house, home insurance, contents insurance, all those pieces that fit along the journey. What Bud does with our bank partners is supply each and every service at every point of that journey, so that a bank can do the thing that it does well, double down on innovating within the product space. What they can do is they can increase their value in terms of the range of services that they offer their customers, based on the fact that we can bring in all of these different services at the right time on the journey.
AJ:	Yes, I was just going to add that payments, as such, I mean the moving of money, that’s, kind of, boring, but the fact is that you need to put stuff on top of that. So, as we’re doing, both of our-, there’s the invoice data, that actually makes the payment much, much more interesting, from many points of view. Similarly, you know, when you’re paying for something, you’re using your card, uploading the receipt as an attachment to the payment, all of a sudden, you’re bookkeeping ready. You’ve got all the necessary data for your bookkeeper to do your bookkeeping. We’re working with partners also to enable the accountants, the bookkeepers to work much more efficiently with these small businesses, that they can’t reach otherwise. So, there’s a lot of stuff that you can actually add on top of payments, that adds value to the customer and to the whole ecosystem, so it’s cool.
JC:	Sorry, just to add, once a payment is done, you know, it’s there on your transactional history. That is a piece of evidence that has said this person has done a something. That is a piece of very valuable data which can power a lot of-, whether it’s AI capabilities or machine learning capabilities, to serve customers based on their historical data they’ve done, the actual stuff that they’ve done. That’s going to be a huge impact in the future.
JB:	I guess that’s one of the things that impressed me when I went and visited BBVA recently, that we talked to a lot of banks that don’t quite get this move from products to services, that still see payments in that, well, that’s not very interesting. Your CEO very much sees world in that new, intelligent services way, is that something you think resonates with BBVA?
MM:	Definitely, I think one of the things that sums up this spirit, and he says it a lot, Carlos Torres says it a lot, nobody wants to buy a mortgage, you want to buy a house, to have a life and to be happy, no? I think that sums up the spirit of what you need to build. You need to accompany your customer through his life, through their lives, and help him to their financial wellbeing, to their happiness, at the end.
JB:	Well, I think, Sam, you’ve got maybe someone else, to give a different view. I know you mentioned Brexit, I’m tempted to go with the whole Trump meme, but I think I might leave it there, who have you got there?
SM:	Yes, leave me alone. Finland, whatever your beer is on tap, anybody know the alcohol percentage? Because I’m on my fifth, and I’m American, that is outstanding, by the way. I’m with Tashi, did I say that right, Tashi?
TS:	You did, yes.
SM:	Tashi, from Tink, I love that name.
TS:	You said that right, as well.
SM:	Thank you, and Tashi, your surname, because there’s no flippin’ way-, how do you say that?
TS:	Sylten, it actually means jam (ph 44.05).
SM:	Because you’re Swedish, right?
TS:	No, that’s Norwegian.
SM:	Norwegian?
TS:	Yes.
SM:	Okay, yes, I know where Norway is. Alright, so, we talked about Tink a little bit, and I said-, you asked me if I knew what Tink was, and I said, yes, it’s PFM, personal financial management, and you started laughing.
TS:	Yes.
SM:	Because, basically, you are PFM if it was on steroids, instead of personal financial management, it would be pure fucking magic, I believe would be the right way to describe what Tink does.
TS:	That’s probably right, yes. So, I mean, I’ve been sitting here now listening for a while and it’s quite interesting because I realise that we are really touching all of the subjects that you’re talking about. So, basically, for those of you who don’t know, Tink was started five years ago, where we aggregate data through reverse engineering the banks APIs. So, this is before PSD2, before open banking and everything. We took that data, categorised that and, sort of, made what you call the PFM. We moved past that now, we introduced payment initiation services within the platform, we, today, actually offer a way to do product recommendations, so we can switch your mortgage, find new savings accounts, you can do everything within our application, you can do it within five minutes, digitally, everything. So, in a sense, we partner with the banks there, on the distribution, but then, on the other side, where I work, we also take that underlying technology and we license that to the banks, so they can do the same things as we do, by themselves.
SM:	Yes, so, you’re one of those pure-, when you look at it from a fintech side, a bank, so where’s BBVA? Up there, hi BBVA. So, a good example of that, right? You take a narrow focus, or a couple of use cases and just make them work like they’re supposed to. Switching a mortgage, I think you said, in five minutes?
TS:	Yes, exactly, so, since we aggregate a lot of data, not only financial, we can, sort of, prefill all those forms and everything you need to sign, and then-,
SM:	Oh, thank God, by the way, thank you for doing that.
TS:	Yes, then, sort of, the digital onboarding experience becomes super quick.
SM:	I don’t know what it’s like in Finland, in the US nobody switches accounts, right? I mean they see that and they’re like, “Oh my God, I’m going to spend five days frickin’ typing all my details and pulling them in.” You’re doing it from multiple sources, right?
TS:	Yes, exactly.
SM:	That’s some of the magic.
TS:	Yes, so, I mean, it’s the same in Sweden. I think like 80% of the Swedish population inherits their bank, so they never change at all. With Tink you can really cherry pick the best products out there and then you can manage everything within one single interface. So, you don’t have to really do anything with your bank, at all, if you don’t want to, but you can still have the best products everywhere.
SM:	So, I mean, obviously if you’re a BBVA client or OP, you have no desire to change because you guys are just lovely, and we love you, but other banks, right? A little bit more of a pain in the ass. What banks do you work with? Can you name some of them?
TS:	So, our customers today are Swedish Bank, SEB, Nordea, ABN AMRO, in the Netherlands, and Klarna, actually, as well.
SM:	Oh, Klarna is one?
TS:	Yes. Well, that’s probably, like, when you start talking payments and everything. I mean when you start aggregating the data, getting all these insights, you want to do advice and recommendations. Then you realise that you also want to touch the money, like you can’t really do anything without being able to move that around and do things. So, I mean, it’s really just echoing what everyone has been saying, really, it’s payments as, of course, enabler in that sense.
SM:	Alright, so, we’re going to wrap up, we’ve got about a minute left, so, we’re going to dive into some of the more important questions. So, season two of Stranger Things.
TS:	Yes.
SM:	Right? Better?
TS:	I think the first one was better, actually.
SM:	Yes, I do too.
TS:	I mean, you really like the characters, you know? You really related to people and everything, and now they branched it everywhere, I don’t really know what happened in the emo period, for example.
SM:	Well, Tashi and I bonded over Battlestar Galactica, so just a quick shout out, just get over it, folks, Battlestar Galactica, watch it. Isn’t it one of the best frickin’ shows, ever?
TS:	It’s one of the best in the world, I guess.
SM:	Okay, so, you learned a lot, okay? Stranger Things season two, not as good as season one, and we won’t ruin the spoilers. Tashi, sounds like an incredible product.
TS:	Thank you.
SM:	Tink, right?
TS:	Yes.
SM:	Jason?
JB:	So, we’ve learnt about Battlestar Galactica, thanks Sam, that’s-,
SM:	Yes, we have.
JB:	That’s fintech for us. So, we can’t come to the Nordic region, to Scandinavia without asking a question that everyone who isn’t here is asking. Like this cashless thing, like what’s up with that? The European Central Bank just produced a report, like, yesterday, the day before, to say that Finland, the Netherlands, Estonia are leading the world in terms of going cashless, getting rid of physical money. Why? How does that work?
MM:	I think that it sums up with what we were talking before about convenience, how can we bring amazing to the hands of our customers? Well, convenience is one easy way to smooth out the life of-,
JB:	Beyond that, I mean even you go to the US, where Sam is, like you could make the same argument about convenience, but, you know, they’re lightyears behind everything else. AJ, why this region?
AJ:	Of course, I agree with the BBVA lady on the convenience, I think that’s a good answer, but on top of that I think network effect. I mean it’s just absolutely possible to pay everywhere with your card, not to use cash. I go weeks without cash myself, and there’s a very, very clear difference between our customers in Finland and our customers in Germany and Austria. One of our most used services in Germany and Austria is ATM withdrawals. So, people take money out of their Holvi account using our card, to get cash, so that they can make purchases. Because, for example, in Austria there are many businesses that don’t even accept cards, they just want cash. Finland, completely different.
JB:	So, Jani, Germany, Austria, I think the ECB report talks about Greece and Malta being at the bottom of the league table. What is this inter-country thing? Have you got any views?
JT:	Yes, well, for Scandinavia, why we are perhaps leading the pack is a couple of things, but one is that there is a tradition, a history of innovation in fintech. We were, I think, in Finland, we had online banking second in the world, and Sweden, Handelsbanken, was third in the world. Then not just in fintech, but in general, consumers here tend to pick up on new digital experiences fairly quickly, whether we talk about music of fintech. Then there’s one additional thing, which is particular to Sweden. They have, I guess, set themselves this objective of leading global change, getting rid of cash and doing crazy things like enlisting Abba, the pop band, to take the message across to regular people like us. Yes.
JC:	I was going to take a different tact. You know, Nordic’s well known for having early tech adoption, but I would also say that they trust their banks. When you talk about Greece and Malta, the reason why they’re not taking card and they’re keeping everything in cash, is because they keep it all in cash, and you could argue that a lot of places, why merchants don’t want to accept card is because they’re put on the system, you know? If you take cash, then you’re out of the system. So, I think there could be some hangovers in, you know whether it’s the Nordic’s progressive approach to tax, and that’s why everyone’s happy to accept card, because it’s just engrained in the culture. When you take it to, dare I even say, into the UK, you know, a lot of tax dodging going on, you know, not accepting card is a good way to keep out of the system. Different tact on the question.
JB:	I think someone pointed out that, actually, the countries at the bottom of the league table were those that had had runs on their banks, and actually probably trusted the system least. So, when you bring in that making things formal, suddenly having it on your company books, and the fact that I don’t trust my bank, maybe it’s no coincidence that people are hoarding it under their mattresses and using that to spend.
JC:	Yes.
JB:	Sam, I think you’ve got someone who probably knows a bit more than I do on this?
SM:	Just a little bit. So, this is Mark, with Visa Europe. So, he’s literally Godzilla, I think that’s-, in a nice way. If Godzilla was really nice and you worked with him, this is what it would look like. Love you, Mark. From London, right?
MW:	Yes, do I look like a Godzilla?
SM:	Yes, and what’s your exact job title?
MP:	My exact job title, Exec Director of Strategy Programmes and Venture for Europe.
SM:	Alright, so, for fintech companies, this is Mark, you should come meet Mark, okay? This is like Tinder and dating. So, from a venture capital side, when you’re working with Visa and you’ve got more money than God, just go with it, what areas of fintech and tech, as a whole, excite you? Especially when you’re looking at the Nordics, because that’s where we’re focused.
MP:	Okay, so, I think what excites me about the Nordics is actually they’ve pushed so much cash out the system and they’re solving real, real problems that still remain today, right? So, it may be a Klarna, that is solving the frustrating form filling type nightmare you have in ecommerce, and also backing that up with very quick credit decisions through the payment data they collect. Maybe it’s an iZettle that is allowing those small businesses to accept card payments in the back of beyond, right? So, I think here we’re solving really key problems, pushing cash out of the economy, and really, I think the Nordics has reached a tipping point where it’s pretty close to one of you guys going cashless soon.
SM:	Yes, so, from a US standpoint, let me disappoint everybody, we’re not that tech savvy, I believe 86%-, it’s about 86% to 87% of transactions are cash, when it comes at the POS.
MP:	That is disappointing.
SM:	Thank you very much, we are leading the world in disappointment right now, damn it, but it is, right? Even cheques, cheques still account for about 10% of transactions.
MP:	On that point, I mean, I think Visa’s biggest competitor is cash, right? In the Nordics it isn’t, so, we really need to work very closely with these markets, we need to understand some of the innovations that are happening, particularly around Swish, Mobile Pay, Vipps, those guys are squeezing that out from a P2P perspective, they’ll move to P2Merchant, there are some challenges there, but I’m really excited to see how they progress.
SM:	Yes, you talked about that with me, it’s that shift from P2P to P2F, right?
MP:	Yes, I mean, they’ve got to make money somewhere, right?
SM:	So, one thing I think that works well in the Nordics, that is unique, but it’s Europe, as a whole, you like the idea of transit, when it comes to payments.
MP:	Yes, I mean, I think transit has several problems, I mean we all hate buying tickets, we all hate working out what our fare is, we all hate validating our ticket. Certainly in London, and London Transport, contactless, the Visa has been incredibly successful, but that’s not necessarily a model that’s going to work everywhere. It’s not going to work in Poland, it’s not going to work in Germany, so, I think there is significant volume that Visa would get excited about there and really interesting early stage companies that are in that space.
SM:	Yes, I like transit too, because-, mass transit, because repeatability. London, you’ve got, what? 8 million people on the tube every day, so, it’s that idea of you know you’re going to get that transaction volume for it, I love that, it’s a great model. I want to thank you, Mark, you’re incredibly sharp, however, you believe season two of Stranger Things is better than season one?
MP:	I do, yes, maybe that’s not so sure.
SM:	You are 100% full of shit. I am sorry, Jason, back to you.
JB:	I see that theme coming, you know, suddenly it’s like Sam’s greatest hits on Netflix, where do we take that? I guess to build on Sam’s question, at 11FS we’ve spoken to boards at a variety of banks, and I always think I’m going to go in and speak to the exec who know how this is all going to play out. What is going to happen in the next few years? What is their strong vision? I’m yet to be surprised by something that really paints that picture of what the roadmap’s like. So, of course, now the time has come to put you guys on the spot. It’s a crazy, chaotic, complex market, we’ve got disaggregation, we’ve got AI, we’ve got blockchain, we’ve got all kinds of PSD2 players coming along, challenger banks, everything’s happening, what does all this look like in the next few years? Marisol, you get the pleasure of kicking this off.
MM:	Well, from my side, I want to say that the future is collaboration, that we need to work together to make this happen. So, in the end, it’s not about the startups or corporations or ecosystem builders or events or whatever. It’s every one of us are building the future of banking, that’s it.
JB:	AJ?
AJ:	I hate this question because this goes on record, so, now everybody, you know, a few years from now, they can play the record back, they can say the biggest idiot in the world said that.
JB:	Or a genius.
AJ:	Or a genius, but that chance is very small. Anyway, so, I’ll do my flying bank branches pitch. No, I think, as Marisol said, I think it’s going to be about focus, it’s going to be everybody focusing more-, because there’s going to be more competition, there’s going to be more focus on what you do. So, banks are going to be focusing on what they do best and not be the supermarket of all financial services, so that’s one thing. The other thing is, of course, the big tech, I mean, you can talk as much as you want about the small tech, the small fintech players. We’re probably going to do a lot of innovation and change, but what are the big tech are going to do? The big G, the big F and these guys? 
JB:	It’s like Voldemort, we’re not even mentioning their names anymore.
AJ:	I know, I know, we can’t say it here, because, you know, they are so-, they are so powerful, because they are the guys leading the innovation in AI, they are the guys leading the innovation in machine learning, all of those big data stuff. They know that stuff already, they’ve got very large war chests and they want to move in and contextualise everything. So, kind of, take the business out of that, because they already have a working business model, so, that’s what’s going to happen. How? I don’t know.
JC:	As well, when you’re thinking about GAFA, you know, those large companies, when it comes to Google and Amazon, when a bank digitises, they’re probably going to be hosted on one of those two’s hosting services. So, you know-,
AJ:	Absolutely.
JC:	I guess for us, I think, you know, five years, the monolith model of banks I think will be gone, I think we’ll see banks bringing in lots of third-party providers to increase service to their customers, to make better service, but also create products that aren’t super expensive to serve to their customers, as well. Then I think ten years on, finance will be much more where people are, and it’s not going to be, “Oh, I’m going to go to my bank to do this thing,” it’s going to be completely seamless, with where they are in their experience. Whether it’s an in Facebook or an in Amazon or whatever it is. You’re going to have people who are competing at the attention layer for customers, and who want to be the interface and who want to maintain that relationship, but then you’ll have, you know other companies who just go, “Right, we’re going to do this product and we’re going to completely crush this product and be the best version of this vertical.” It’s going to be put into many, many different places, but we don’t care about how it’s going to be done, we just care about optimising this product as best as possible, so, it can be picked up by customers as quickly as possible and as easily as possible, but also provides that high-value service to them. So, I think you’re going to have competition on two levels, the attention and then the actual product itself.
JB:	So, Jani, going last, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
JT:	I agree with everything that was said here. I’ll make a prediction from a slightly different angle. I predict that the Nordics will be an even bigger hub for fintech innovation. We’re going to see a lot more of these Klarnas, iZettles, we’re going to see a lot more investment going into innovation in this area, and also having lots more talent. I mean, there is a lot of talent here, but even more.
JB:	Even more talent. So, the sun is setting on the fintech pier, it’s time to bring the panel to a close, but first, Marisol, where can people find more about what BBVA’s doing in these collaborations?
MM:	One simple thing, follow us on BBVA.com. Our Twitter handle and social media is BBVAInnovation. We will open talent competitions soon, so stay tuned.
JB:	There you go, stay tuned. AJ?
AJ:	Go to Holvi.com, you’ll find all you need there. Holvi.com.
JB:	Holvi.com.
JC:	You can search Bud in Google, if not just go to ThisIsBud.com, to get more about what we do and how we help banks. You can tweet at us, as well, @This_Is_Bud.
JB:	Great, Jani?
JT:	Zervant.com, Zervant with a Z, you can also call on me, well, here, if you are here, physically present, or if you’re listening to the podcast, calling me on LinkedIn.
JB:	So, everyone is going to be at the bar later.
JC:	Yes, we’re all going to be at the bar.
JB:	Until apparently 2:00. So, if you think this is incoherent now, you wait, because a couple of those pineapple drinks are going to turn this into a whole new level. So, to close out the show, we’re going to hear from Simon, and today’s final guest, who, by the way, is paying for all of these drinks. So, firstly, a round of applause, please.
ST:	Come on people, like did anybody try this pineapple thing? How awesome is this pineapple thing? Give it up for the people in the bar, that is friggin’ awesome.
KL:	Simon, it’s technically a coconut, not a pineapple thing.
ST:	It’s a coconut, yes. Whatever it is, I love it, Kristian.
KL:	Yes, I like it, as well.
ST:	Whatever it is, it’s good. To everybody at every other bar, you’re awesome too, we love you equally, of course we do, we’re not leaving you out. Kristian, thank you for putting this event on, what made you put this event on?
KL:	I mean, it’s very dark here in the November-,
ST:	It is dark in November.
KL:	I know, and it’s very cold.
ST:	It is very cold.
KL:	It is very wet.
ST:	It is very wet, so why did you think, “I need a beach,” I wonder?
KL:	I mean, why not? Like the point is that during February we’re now putting people in the Ice Holes, to pitch for their startups.
ST:	What on earth is the Ice Hole?
KL:	Well, it is an amazing event where startups can pitch for as long as they want.
ST:	They can pitch for as long as they want, so long as they survive the Ice Hole.
KL:	Exactly.
ST:	That sounds pretty epic. Kristian, I guess you’re from OP, tell us a little bit about OP because, hey, before I do that, actually, is anybody here from Finland? Stick your arm in the air. Okay, so, you guys know who OP is. Is anybody here not from Finland? Arms in the air. Okay, so, you guys might not know that these guys are really cool. Not just for this event, but you guys rock.
KL:	Yes, I guess we do.
ST:	So, what is it you do? You’re a bank, right? But you do a little more?
KL:	Yes, we’re a hospital and we sell electric cars and we do insurance, and do you want me to go on?
ST:	I love the sound of that. So, Kristian, where do people find out about OP and tell us what you’re up to.
KL:	Well, OP.fi, and OP-Lab.fi. OP Lab is, sort of, the innovation unit where we research lots of stuff, technology and customers and whatever.
ST:	I’ve been to a lot of labs, there’s a lot of good labs out there, but I like yours, as well, your is awesome.
KL:	Yes, we do pineapple.
ST:	You do pineapple. This is the first time I’ve done pineapple pay, this has been really good.
KL:	Yes, I know, but pineapple comes from pine and apple. Pine is a really old tree that has lasted forever, right?
ST:	Yes.
KL:	Apples last for a season. So, by combining pine and apple, you get startup collaboration with banks. Something that is futureproof.
ST:	Kristian, you are futureproofing banking, you are futureproofing my liver with this drink, so I want to thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you are enjoying the alcohol, if you are enjoying being here, will you please thank Kristian Luoma from OP? Woo! Thank you, Kristian.
KL:	Thank you for coming here.
ST:	Thank you so much. 
JB:	That brings us to the end of a very special Scandinavian Fintech Insider. 
ST:	Well, before we get to the end, we have to thank a very special team who made this happen. Not only the sponsors, who have been amazing for allowing this to happen, but all of the folks at OP that made this happen. You guys have been incredible, give yourselves a round of applause.
SM:	Yeah, we don’t want to forget the bartenders either, because they’re my favourite people.
ST:	The bartenders are rocking my world, but also we have an incredibly talented production team here at 11FS, so, Ollie, Laura, Michael, Simone, wherever you are, give it up for these people who made this happen. Thank you so much!
SM:	Rock stars.
ST:	We really appreciate it, and Mila, from OP, thank you so much for making everything happen. This, I guess, has been Fintech Insider Live. I’ve been Simon Taylor, and please, please give it up for my co-host, Sam Maule. Woo! Jason Bates. Don’t forget, ladies and gentlemen, you can find our podcast on iTunes, if you want to hear yourself, or any of the guests, look up Fintech Insider on iTunes, connect with us on Twitter and have fun this evening. Ladies and gentlemen, this has been Fintech Insider, thank you and goodnight.
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