mergeconflict231
Frank: [00:00:00] Hey Frank, Happy December 
I can't believe it's December. That's very mean of you to say, Oh gosh, December 1st we are recording on December 1st. Uh, it went from March to December. What did you do during March? December. Oh, wow. 
James: [00:00:25] That's a great question. I put on an extra 10 pounds, which I'm going to get off with my DIY Peleton that we'll talk about in the future.
Um, what else did I do? I do a lot of hiking. Uh, moved around a little bit. We added a lot of drone footage. Uh, I put on extra way. I think I told you that, um, 
Frank: [00:00:43] You've been, you've been showing off a bit with the hiking and the droning making me a little bit jealous over here. I think that you are trying to like jealous me into getting my own outside, but not going to do it just yet.
The peer pressure hasn't kicked in fully, but oddly enough, I always wait until the winter to try to get healthy. And so w w we'll see if I end up doing that. 
James: [00:01:05] Yes, that's what I'm doing. I'm ready for Apple fitness. Plus, come on, come on, bring it on Apple. I'm ready. Uh, you know, the countdown is on, it's still, hasn't been.
Released yet late 2020 Frank is pretty late into 2020. 
Frank: [00:01:17] Uh, yeah. Uh, so it'll come out December 24th so we can start getting the pounds off or something like that. Right. I, I didn't even know that that was when they announced it. I thought it was going to come out instantly as if you haven't heard of this.
It's like fitness workouts on the TV that integrate with your watch and put a heads up, display on your TV. Nerd, nerdy workout stuff at home, but I'm excited for it too. I think you got me excited for it. Uh, I totally forgot about it though. It's been so long in waiting. 
James: [00:01:49] I'll have to add you to my family plan because we're a big old family here.
I mean, I think that the thing that excites me about kind of going into the winter is 2021 is looking pretty good. Um, you know, I'm, I am, I am excited overall, even though it does get dark early has been really sunny, um, recently, which has been really good and bad. I've been doing a lot of hiking, drinking some good beer again, not trying to drink too much beer because I may put on a little bit extra weight, like I've been talking, but I'm trying to get it off my head.
I think the weight is my hair. Frank to be honest, 
Frank: [00:02:19] I believe that I I've seen some recent videos of you. I hope everyone's seen some recent videos of you. It's funny with the beer because I used to go out to a bar once or twice a week. And now I don't. So if I have one or two beers, I am completely drunk swerving around on the one wheel.
So it's kinda nice to be, um, a cheap date right now. I like it 
James: [00:02:43] holding up. Okay. I assume during, in this March, Sember. 
Frank: [00:02:47] Um, no, but you know, no one is, so it's fine. At least you have a, 
James: [00:02:53] you have a weekly connection, nice hour and a half sync with me. I mean, it keeps me sane at least. So I do appreciate that. 
Frank: [00:03:00] I do.
I do you keep me a lot sane plus I have my Twitch crew and my Twitch crew keeps me sane. So they're kind of nice. I have two support groups. They get to listen to me complain and all of you, dear listeners, I won't complain anymore. 
James: [00:03:15] Well, good. Well, good. No, you should complain as much as you want. Uh, but actually we have some feedback because you Frank got an M one Mac mini and I talked to her a good friend.
Miquel de Caza. 
Frank: [00:03:27] Ooh go. 
James: [00:03:28] I was, I was talking to him today. He was excited. He asked me what apps he should install on his shiny new M one machine. I said, you should probably install Frank's apps. Cause they are, they're pretty fancy. Uh, but we were pretty excited, him and I were going back and forth on it.
And we actually got a email from, Oh, I'm going to say it's Grameen, G R a E M E. Cool name. And, uh, they were saying that they said, uh, following up. On the recent M one episode we did drew down like two. Now at this point they said I purchased a new M one Mac book. Air was 16 jigs of Ram and one terabyte upgrade.
Pretty cool. So is there a previous, a Mac book was a 2016, 12 inch Mac book base back now that's the Mac book, not Mac book pro not Mac book air. That's the one I had. And, um, that is not a, that is not a delightful machine to develop applications on. I'll be honest with you. Uh, they said I used to develop the use that machine to develop Xamarin apps and visual studio for Mac.
And also as a built client while using my work laptop, a Dell XPS, 15, what a workforce 
Frank: [00:04:35] computer. 
James: [00:04:36] It is. No, it is surely is that they've been a doughnut developer for a long time. Loves Xamarin, loved being able to do cross-platform. They said, well, the Mac book did. Okay. It just took a long time to compile applications.
They're building out a cool home kit application. But for controlling and automating devices in an RV, that's very timely. Nice. Um, they said that the bill time was taking about five and a half minutes to build from a clean build, which is very annoying. 
Frank: [00:05:03] Yeah. Wow. I know that feeling, uh, continuous takes seven and a half minutes to do a clean build.
Yeah. I know that feeling. Not good. 
James: [00:05:13] Well, they said that the new Mac books are super fast. Um, they heard they were super fast and they are super fast because they bought one right away and they said, vs for Mac is running super fast. Now super excited about it. They said the bills are down to one minute, five seconds using Rosetta to.
And any subsequent builds are only taking 20 seconds. I said, this will really change how the develop with S or Mac from now on, which is awesome. Cause that's the Mac book air. I mean, there's that one? That's really cool. 
Frank: [00:05:43] I I, that awesome story. Thank you for that story. That that's great. I have so much, I want to add to it.
Um, it's uh, and that's what the jet, because, um, visual studio for Mac runs with a jet it's not AOT or anything. I was noticing with my apps. If I turned on the AOT, they were just. Ridiculous fast. Like if you're not running through the G at all, either you're just taking advantage of the runtime and everything and it jets when it needs to, it has that hybrid mode.
Oh man, that is a sweet spot. So if you're developing a Mac apps or anything, make sure you turn on that AOT because Ooh. Call that lightening mode. Uh, that's pretty amazing. Uh, and I don't want to turn this into another M one episode, James, but I have a little update on that. Yeah. Yeah. News poop. Uh, I have returned my  mountain.
James: [00:06:44] What happened? What'd you do? It's only been a week. Frank, what did you do to that? 
Frank: [00:06:48] I know, I know, uh, 11 days, um, No, it's the machine's fault. Here's the problem. The machine was too good. I felt too much in love with it. And I went over to my old laptop, 2013 Mac book pro you know, a brick basically, I think from the stone age, vintage 
James: [00:07:08] vintage model.
Frank: [00:07:09] Maybe it was like the bronze age, it's somewhat modern and it turns out it can't update to big Sur. And I was like, ah, so it's hit that point in its life where it can't get new iOS updates, which was sad. Um, it's still going to be a great test machine for me because I support old versions, but I had a brain thought, James I'm like, you know, I need a new laptop.
These M ones are amazing. I am going to trade up. I'm going to return my nice, cheap, beautiful Mac mini. That was wonderful computer and spend a lot more money to get ironically the exact same specs. Uh, A, yeah, the air with the 16 gigabits and the one terabytes because you cannot get any other model right now.
In fact, I am driving 250 miles to Spokane Washington across a mountain range in the winter in order to pick up my new prize little possession. So I will go an entire 12 hours without an M one, but I have updated and I'm so excited for my road trip. 
James: [00:08:17] So, did you get the MacBook pro or MacBook air 
Frank: [00:08:20] with the air?
My logic was, I want to use it specifically for travel and in that case, I just want the lightest smallest form factor and the price was already getting ridiculous. If I went up to the pro price, I just, I, I just couldn't swallow it, James. I can't swallow that much money. Um, so, um, I, I think the air is just absolutely gorgeous.
Um, and, and so much power in such a form factor. 
James: [00:08:46] How great. Oh my goodness. I'm I'm, you know, I'm, I'm really fascinated by this because I also have a MacBook pro 2013, frankly. 
Frank: [00:08:56] Yeah, yeah, no, I'm a little long in the tooth to look in. Isn't it. 
James: [00:09:01] Now I will say mine is a late 2013, which again was the last model you had a spring or summer of 2013.
So. I 
Frank: [00:09:11] thought I had a late, but I don't recall. I 
James: [00:09:14] know it was my 
Frank: [00:09:14] ninth graders. Get the update. Oh yeah. 
James: [00:09:17] I will say though. Um, it is very hard to use. It's it's not an enjoyable experience to you to use, you know, X code or visual studio for Mac on this machine. And, uh, I mean, it's just, I mean, it's seven years old.
I, 
Frank: [00:09:35] you know, but I, I look back, I developed my first iOS apps. I developed my first mano touch apps back when it was called mano touch on the. Bottom bare basement, Mac book, laptop. So some part of me says you're just old and cranky, but the other part of me says you're old and cranky. I have zero patients anymore in my life.
I just, I want those one minute builds. Not those five minute builds. 
James: [00:10:01] I wonder if I can get a trade in. That'd be kind of cool. I mean, I would say it'd be really hard for me to get rid of this MacBook pro 2013 and because it has all my cool stickers on it. It was, you know, my first device that I got when I started at Xamarin, um, you know, it's my first time a good 
Frank: [00:10:17] Guild machine.
Honestly, it could spend a whole nother five, 10 years as a server. Like it's a great little server. 
James: [00:10:25] Yeah, that's a good point too. I've had a lot of questions now that you've, you know, returned it and are, are, you know, fighting the elements. So would get a mag book. There's a lot of questions on Twitter.
Maybe you could answer this for me, which is people were like, I want to be able to compile my app on an  chip. But that doesn't make any difference 
Frank: [00:10:45] though, right? No, no. Um, compilers, most compilers are what you call cross compilers now where they can output for a variety of architectures, processors, things like that.
It depends on what exact compiler you are using. Um, if you're on a Mac, the compiler has a bunch of switches to say, or they might have different versions of the compiler. One for building. Uh, arm binaries, one for building X 86 binary. So you just call the right one of those, but no, . Software software, any compiler can output anything, but, uh, you just can't run it.
You know? So if you want to build an M one, you're probably going to want to run an M one. That's the trick. 
James: [00:11:30] So if you wanted to today and ideal scenario, I'm assuming if you're an X code, you can already do this, which is check a check box and say, please also. Compile my application, my Mac, my Mac application for arm, right?
Yeah. I would assume that's the thing. I don't think Xamarin Mac has it yet, but, um, that could be an option, but again, you can't run it. And that's very similar to how I do my, you know, UWP apps. There's check boxes that say I would like X 86 X, 64 and arm. Like, please go create those for me. I can't size arm because I don't have a surface X, but I assume it works.
Okay. 
Frank: [00:12:03] Yeah. And Mack has had fat binaries for a long time. We've always dealt with these, especially in iOS because every iOS library basically comes with an x86 version so that it can run on the simulator and then an arm version to run on device. So for years we've been shipping around fat binaries. Now they're just.
Throwing in a third architecture, which also happens to be armed, but it says like armed for Mac, you know, it's not very specific because what you have is the processor architecture that's arm, and then you have the ABI, the application binary interface, and that's more operating system dependent. Got it.
James: [00:12:40] Did you get space gray, gold, silver. 
Frank: [00:12:43] Uh, not by choice. I got the dark one. Um, so that one, I, I was, I was trying to get the gold. I'll be honest. I was like, look, if I, if I'm buying a ridiculous machine here, I'm going to make it look ridiculous. But, uh, I would have had to drive to Idaho. 450 miles one way in order to get the gold one, I decided to save the guests and get the dark gray one.
James: [00:13:10] It's kind of crazy. Like all the X boxers are sold out. PlayStations are sold out. These Mac books are sold. I've heard the same story. It's kind of a. Crazy weird holiday rush. I avoided all black Friday and cyber Monday. I didn't buy anything. I shopped a little bit, yeah, local, but I just did, you know, curbside pickup over the weekend for, for something that I didn't even, I just say, I'll just give us support local, but, um, yeah, it's fascinating.
Like, you know, it's a, it's a tough time to be releasing a new product because no one can get them. It's kind of good in a way that you can, you know, Work out some kinks in the system, but at the same time, it it's kind of annoying that like, Oh, I got to go drive 200 miles to go pick up a device. But, um, yeah, I am excited if I kind of want one now.
Right. I mean, it's kind of, you know, I was listening to a few other podcasts about the new X-Box, right. The same with the PlayStation is it's only, there's even like crazy, exclusive new software for these devices. But the difference is like load time, right? It's just like, everything's faster. Everything's just like, Oh, it's not like it's revolutionizing everything.
I'll go. The graphics are better and everything, it loads faster. But like when I go and play gears or play another game, they were talking specifically about Assassin's creed. They're like everything loads in like a few seconds. Like I no longer have to sit there for minutes to the compile times. It's like the same thing is all we really want is this.
I want things to be faster, but I feel like with. A lot of our laptops for a long time, we were sort of stagnated in a weird way. Right? We were like, this is, this is the best it's going to get. Like, this is, I can only put so much Ram in here. I can, like the Intel chips are only going this fast and I don't want to dog Intel because my desktop computer is a beast.
Right. And I moved away from laptops, but it's really cool to see. This resurgent that the  is this crazy beast. That's going to push the industry forward, right? With their crazy GPU, their neural engine and this crazy one M one chip and I'm hearing rumors. I was, well, it wasn't a tech meme that the a M one X chips are not that far behind.
I think we're thinking a few months here, Frank. 
Frank: [00:15:15] I I'm I'm sure because you can kind of get a feel for it, for exactly how many dyes they made as you're trying to order these computers. There aren't very many versions of the . There is the seven GPU version, the eight GPU version, and those two versions either have eight gigs of Ram or 16 gigs around.
There's only about four skews of this thing right now. And I'm sure when they were going to production, they had many, many more skews than that. Going into it. You don't want a dog Intel. I do. Um, this is just making it so blindingly obvious the problem with monopolies and monoculture and those kinds of things.
Apple is making innovations, not just for their own OOS, but they put in hardware to make JavaScript faster. You know, w why hasn't Intel been doing that? We all just run JavaScript all day, constantly in every app. Of course, that stuff should be optimized. So, um, yeah, don't want to dog Intel, but, um, it's kind of obvious now that they've been holding us back.
Um, then again, we, I bring this up every time we software developers have to do our part too, because this is an eight core machine that while fast at single-threaded, it's definitely a fast machine, single threaded to get the most bang for the buck. You got to light up all eight of those cores and we software developers have to make sure we're writing our multi-threaded software.
James: [00:16:42] It's true. Right? It's like the same thing with any new hardware that comes out is unless you're optimizing your doing stuff and you're putting junk on it, then you will continuously get junk results at the end of the day. And you know, we need to recompile, we need to redo our stuff. We need to optimize things.
If we all decide to run. You know, I don't want to dog electron, but electronic apps all day on, you know, under powered laptops, then we're going to get that because yeah. You know, electron apps run great on my desktop machine, but that's not what everybody has at the end of the day. So it'll be fascinating to see how this goes and to see how your new laptop comes, I'm ready for the review next week.
And if I really should go all in or should I wait? I think that the, what, what they were saying on technium was, uh, That the M one X will be in the 16 inch pro because I wouldn't only as the Intel currently. So that would be, yeah, 
Frank: [00:17:34] they might want a fan too or something for that shit. Yeah. Correct. Um, you know, if I was being a good person, I'd probably honestly wait for that.
in a year or two to come out. Cause it's a version one product, but w what a good version, one product. So I'm going to enjoy just outing. Owning that first-generation of it. And the speed stuff is real. Have you seen that video where someone just goes through the dock and opens every single app and they all just open, like they don't delay or anything?
They just open then, uh, uh, for the neural networks, I'm actually a little bit excited because it turns out when you're training a neural network, you spend a lot of time transferring. Data from CPU memory into GPU memory. And that actually can be a substantial amount of time. And these are unified memory architectures where all that Ram is being shared between both devices.
So should be awesome. Fast. Anyway, that's all just a preview. I can't wait to do some benchmarking with machine learning on it. 
James: [00:18:36] Yeah. You know, I think that's a good point, right. I think like, as we unlock more potential of these devices, um, Then we'll just, we'll just, you know, want more out of them. I think he said something fascinating though, too, which is, these are really great gen one product.
And I don't think we see that enough. These days. And I, I'm not, I'm just talking generically because I have purchased a lot of gen one products. Right. I've purchased the original Nintendo, you know, 3d ass when it came out. Right. And it was okay, but I upgraded to the next two models and then it was great, you know, there's.
A lot of smaller hardware, things that I buy, whether it's, um, you know, fitness equipment or watches or routers, or, you know, surveillance equipment, you know, like housing, you know, security cameras, things like that. I feel like sometimes we're in this place, we've been told like, Oh, it's a gen one product.
It's a first release of the app. Like, you know, you're just an early adopter. You know, that's what we've been told. Like it's okay. You're just an early adopter, but I kind of feel like this release of the  processors from what I'm hearing and everything like that is, you know what? You are an early adopter, but it sure doesn't feel like it.
And that's kind of cool feeling. 
Frank: [00:19:59] Yeah to have the confidence. I'll be honest. I also bought the cheapest Mac mini because I wasn't too confident you and I have had the DTK for a while. And it's a great little machine, but it's not. Impressive, but I mean, it's a good machine, but it's just not like blowing me away or anything like that.
Versus when I had the  one, so I got a little beta test there. I took advantage of their fraternity system and got to demo it. And so I was able to. I, I was willing to spend the bigger box and, Oh boy, was it a lot more bucks? Uh, because I had that confidence that this wasn't a lemon that this I'm trying to think of like a bad V1 product.
Um, I mean, there are so many, that's why we're bringing it up, but I actually just thought of a good V1 product. Uh, the, uh, Amazon thing, Gus. Echo Dingus. That was a good one product. Yeah. But yeah, there are few and far between, so definitely enjoy them when they happen. 
James: [00:20:59] You know, it being a software developer, we sort of have this advantage and privilege that we're able to update our software frequently.
Right. It's kind of we're in this cycle now that we're able to update things on demand very quickly. I think about vehicles in a way, you know, we had just gotten a newer, uh, uh, Subaru Forester and it has. Yeah, it's an older model, 2017, but it has, uh, the eyesight technology in it, um, which is sort of like the assist mode.
So it will automatically speed up and slow down when you're on cruise control based on detection of cars in front of you, 
Frank: [00:21:33] it will let me just interrupt. I absolutely love adaptive cruise control. I'm a car guy. I got my career started working on cars. So I, I, I missed that in my current car. My next car is definitely going to have it.
James: [00:21:46] I. I've only used it. This is how there's car, but I, I like to drive. So I, I, uh, I've driven a bunch of, we've done a lot of hiking outside of the city. So we've been driving and it's great on the highway, obviously, but I mean, it goes down to a zero, right. A dead stop. And it's amazing. I can never go back. A guy just is impossible every time that it's off.
I want it to be on. It just is amazing, but it also has the lane assist too. So it keeps you in the lane. Um, which works really well too. And that also amazes me. I've no idea how it works, but it has also auto stops. So I feel like you're going under, like, you know, a certain speed. Obviously it'll try to stop automatically if you're gonna run into something, uh, like another car.
Uh, and, uh, it also has the auto backup camera. So it'll automatically stop if you're about to back into something, but then literally. We were sitting at a stoplight and I was letting someone come out in front of us. And I got a little notification that says the car in front of you has, has, has gone forward or whatever.
Right. It's like, it's, it's, it's already sped up. Cause I was letting someone out and I was like, this is amazing. But like Subaru had a one chance to really get it. Right. I know that they can upgrade the software, but pretty sure. Um, unless it's a Tesla, I don't really, I don't really know a lot of car or software upgrading that occurs regularly because it's not something that they want to do.
They're not doing OT. I think doesn't have cellular in it, but that's amazing, right. That like this stuff just magically works and like, they can't get it wrong. Like they can't get it wrong and they have to get it right. 
Frank: [00:23:20] Yeah, that's the kind of software development I started. Yeah. Where we call them real time systems, safety, critical systems, whatever you want to call them.
There's a human involved and we can't kill the human kind of systems. And it's a wonderful form of development because you're being all thorough and you're going through QA. I learned my quality stuff all in that environment. But they all suffer from exactly what you just said. They have to get it right that first time.
And you don't want to say like, We released it with a bug that we'd like to patch because you're implying that it's not safe at that point. And I think that that's honestly how a lot of the automated cars felt. They felt like they were opening themselves up to vulnerabilities and lawsuits and things like that.
Whereas modern cars are just taking a note from software and saying, well, of course there's bugs and we're going to try not to kill you, or, uh, we're going to do our best and we're going to keep updating it. It's quite a revolution. That change. And it's really interesting going back to your car, as far as I know, it's using pretty much the same radar.
Every car uses there's one company that produces these nice radar boxes for cars, and they actually have all the intelligence and stuff kind of baked right into them. They're almost like. A turnkey solution. You can actually go onto eBay and buy them and how to talk to them correctly. You could add all this stuff to your car yourself, but, uh, it's kind of funny because.
Those are products, whereas Tesla's kind of like designing their own. So it's like, do you buy an off the shelf commoditized one or do you build one yourself? And a lot of these automakers are having to decide if they're going to become software technology companies, or if they're really just going to keep staying, uh, as supply chain assemblers.
James: [00:25:08] Yeah, no, that's a good point. And you know, on that, on that note with Subaru, um, that that's cool about the two, I said, there's two cameras in the front. It's, you know, that's why they call it a second pair of eyes. Cause there's only two eyes looking at at it. And it kind of felt like that. It kind of like, Hey, this is tried and true.
Like someone did this cause there's the same on every single car. And they come standard now on every Subaru, no matter what model, which is really cool in 2017, they did not, it was a premium ad-on. So luckily this Craigslist person did that. But, uh, you know, what's, what's fascinating is at that time, You could also tell that Subaru was attempting and then if anyone works at Subaru, I'm so sorry.
Um, but they attempted to build like a web based next generation media player for the car called Starlink or whatever is the worst thing I've ever seen in my entire life. It's such. It's like, it's so terribly bad. And like, they have a terrible app and it's like all this stuff and they're like, Oh, well we can update the app.
We can do this. Like, yeah. But you can update the software that's on the box and the thing so forever, it's terrible. It's like the worst thing ever in the world. And again, they, in their mind, they're like, well, you know, if someone can't play Spotify or can't play music, that's not going to kill them. But.
So we're going to try to develop that ourselves and try to go through this thing. Uh, but you know, the other thing we're going to really lock in and be a vendor. So it's fascinating to see the decisions that companies 
Frank: [00:26:35] make. It's so funny, you bring up the touch screen. I have to tell a little story of horror stories from programming past.
I was working at a car company and we were working on a car, which was specifically a new technology car. We were given money and told to make this car hot. Put your best stuff in nerds, you know? W what do you got? Put it in there scar. And so we definitely went touchscreen. This is in days like before touch screens were too common, and we definitely went with like, um, voice recognition, all that kind of stuff, but we were a bunch of electrical engineer nerds.
We didn't know like how to build a good user interface. You know, th this was kind of my crash course into how do you build a good UI for a system like this? And literally James. The best we could come up with. We're trying to do like thermal controls. Do you want to make it hot in the car or cold in the car?
I started drawing pictures of deserts and frozen environments, and I would like do them in ms. Paint and scan them in. And then I wrote visual basic apps that displayed all that stuff. On the dashboard with dials and sliders and things like that. And my ridiculous artwork made it to the top, top, top of the chain because no one was there to replace it.
And they just kept putting it through every demo. I had my crazy artwork in it for how this UI should work. And so I can hundred, hundred million percent understand how, uh, these poor car companies are having to deal with this because they've just never hired UI designers before it just wasn't. I think they just never didn't need them.
James: [00:28:10] Sure. I mean, it, it, it is something to say about how we're, how we're lucky that we're able to update software, how we're able to update our user interface, modernize with the times, you know, like that dashboard unit will never update. I'll never be able to adjust with the times will always be stuck in 2017, which wasn't that far ago, but this thing feels like it's from 2004.
Um, but you know, Um, yeah, it's kind of crazy to think about that. And I was just having a conversation with, Oh, with our design team for the down that website. And, uh, I was talking to Kaitlin just awesome. And we're talking about some page or whatever. I was like, I was like, hold on. I got an idea. All right, here comes the developer designer coming out of here.
Right. And she like cracks up because I'm like, like I got, I like to think I have a sense of design a little bit, but I'm also like literally talking to the head of design. And let me tell you, 
Frank: [00:29:02] let me tell you a great idea and, and defensive programmers, because we do have a bad reputation. We create programmer AR and we sometimes create quick UIs instead of good UIs and that kind of stuff.
But I will say that. We are discerning. We know what's a good at UI and what's not whether we ourselves created or not, but we work with software all the time. We work with so many different apps with so many different UIs that how can you not have. Be opinionated about UIs and that kind of stuff. Anyway, tangential there.
I think we are qualified to discuss it. 
James: [00:29:37] He's a little bit, I think she appreciated it too, by the way. I mean, I say that about myself, not about developers all up, although, you know, you can tell when someone had a professionally designed, right. Uh, you can definitely tell, like, you know, if I was to have designed xamarin.com versus the Xamarin design team, um, I think that, uh, Their design might be a little bit better, 
Frank: [00:30:00] but yeah, sure, sure.
But a movie critic can't create a movie either, so it can still be critical without being able to create. 
James: [00:30:07] I like that critical. I like that critical without the app. I like that. That's a good point, Frank. Um, 
Frank: [00:30:13] yeah. Let anything stop you from being critical. Hey James, we are totally not talking about what we intended to talk about today.
James: [00:30:22] Well, it looks like, well, it's to talk about that next week, Frank, because we're already at 30 minutes and definitely 
Frank: [00:30:26] that happened. What in the world are we going to title this show? 
James: [00:30:30] Remember when we, weren't going to talk about the episode that we almost didn't talk about the . 
Frank: [00:30:37] Yeah, that's about it. We tried really hard.
We've made it to minute five before. Uh, no, actually you brought it up. I didn't do it. So I'm not taking the blame for this one, but I did sidetrack us with a story. 
James: [00:30:48] I blame. Grim or whatever the individual's name is, they emailed us and you can email us too. You can go to merge conflict that FM and you can have as a ramble on about nonsense for 30 minutes, car design, you, I mean, I had fun.
I don't know 
Frank: [00:31:03] if this was just two programmers talking, so that's what we got this week. Everyone. I hope you enjoyed it. 
James: [00:31:08] Have we. Mentioned that we haven't left the house in eight months. So 
Frank: [00:31:16] really looking forward to my road trip to pick up this ridiculously expensive computer. I I'm, I've just everything about it just is making me happy.
James: [00:31:23] Your tire chains. 
Frank: [00:31:25] I don't, but I checked, uh, the past is clear right now and the weather is brilliant timing. Couldn't be 
James: [00:31:30] better. Do it. Well, will, may the force be with you? Um, actually surprisingly, maybe we'll save. Some star Wars for, for holiday. We'll do a holiday special this year, for sure. Heather and I are rewatching all, all the star Wars and clone Wars, so we can get up to date with Mandalorian.
So that may be a fun holiday explosion, but let us put you on a, in our holiday explosion, by going to merge conflict on FM writing for us happening in our discord. So there's some good chat in there recently. I mean, we read these things, whether it's on Twitter, whether it's on our, in our inbox, we love to know.
So. 
Frank: [00:32:07] Yeah. Um, and I think the last episode of the Mandalorian was the best bit of filmed star Wars in a very long time. So I'm, I'm excited for you to watch it and thank you all for writing in, because obviously we read your ideas and then get totally sidetracked by them. 
James: [00:32:25] Right? Well, that's going to do it for this week's merge conflict and thanks everyone for tuning in.
And until next week, I'm James Monson Magno. 
Frank: [00:32:32] I'm Frank crew. Thanks for listening. 
James: [00:32:35] Peace.