mergeconflict405 === [00:00:00] James: All right, Frank, I'm just going to tell you again, how to make money with your app [00:00:04] Frank: and how to do this. Correct. Are you ready? So far, you haven't steered me in the wrong direction. James, I'm here. I am your disciple. Let me hear it. [00:00:14] James: I hate, you know, we started talking on the podcast five seconds ago and we're so done by your app that you're going to release and you're like, I don't know how to make money with it. What do I do? Paid freemium, this, that. And then I put on my PM hat. Put on my PM hat. I went over here and just put this little monkey on my head if you're watching on YouTube. And I, I turned into marketing, sales, PM, James, it happened. It didn't happen quick. It happened quick. [00:00:40] Frank: Yeah. But I, I, I asked you the question because, um, I know, I know that's the monkey on your head. I think that it's supposed to be monkey on your shoulder. Shoulder. Yeah. The monkeys are everywhere. [00:00:51] James: Last time a monkey, we were in, uh, before we got engaged, we were in Bali, right? And a monkey, we're, we're in one of the monkey temples and a monkey went and sat on Heather's shoulder. And it almost ripped her earring out of her ear. I was gonna say, like, monkeys are up to no good. Curious, George. No good. Curious for a reason. Curious for a recruit. Curious about something. Uh, it was, it didn't, it didn't rip her earring out of her ear. These monkeys were pretty good, but, uh, I, we helped shoot it away. Uh, it was likely one that has the, the, the, the, the loop hook. So she was able, it was slid right out. I do believe the monkey took said earring. It's gone. [00:01:30] Frank: Uh, [00:01:31] James: well, you [00:01:32] Frank: could. Trade trade up for it, you know? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. There's probably a monkey black market. [00:01:38] James: Absolutely. I mean, the, the, the, the amount of trading because we were in Uluwatu after that, none of those monkeys are real aggressive. Uh, the ones that we were at, they're not super aggressive. It was like pretty chill. Uh, but yeah, Uluwatu ones, it's, it's a lot of tourists and like, they're pretty aggressive. And they're like, Hey, these, these monkeys are aggressive because. I'm not aggressive towards people, but aggressive as like, they will take stuff out of your hands because there's a bunch of tourists that like are doing that. And I literally saw this monkey like take an iphone out of the lady's hand and was like, 'Deuces I'm gone! and she was like, 'Ooh! I was like, 'Yeah, they told you! and, 'Don't, don't, don't try to take She was taking the photo like this close this monkey's like, 'Oh, thank you 'Deuces. Bye Mine doesn't go down. Frank is releasing an app and it comes down to me once again, Frank, for you to make all the money. Um, okay. So here's the dilemma at the stage. Yeah. So I [00:02:32] Frank: asked the question, question I was going to ask you. Okay. [00:02:35] James: Well, hi people know about this app. But you could set the stage. I don't know. [00:02:39] Frank: Yeah. I, I, I do mysterious tweets sometimes. So if you follow me on Twitter, I might've posted a screenshot here or there because when I get something working, I'm usually overly excited that I got it working. Anyway, uh, new Vision Pro app. I know for all 10 of you out there with Vision Pros, you're going to be very excited. Um, but I was actually thinking of an iPhone version, but it's, it's a fun app. It turns any. 2D video, which is every video in the world, any normal video and turns it into a spatial video and renders it out in front of me in augmented reality. So you can watch, you're supposed to watch your home videos with it, all the things you've recorded and put into your like photos, albums, and all that stuff. But I will say Star Wars is quite entertaining and fake 3D. It's kind of wonderful. Uh, so that's the app. It's just a spatial video, turns everything into spatial video. Fun app. [00:03:30] James: That's the pitch. [00:03:31] Frank: Yeah. [00:03:32] James: Pitched. It's out there. I, I played around with it. Uh, it was good. Now you have some ideas on how you want to, uh, market and sell this, uh, application. [00:03:41] Frank: Right. So I wasn't, I really wasn't sure if I was going to even going to ship the app. It was, it started as a little tech demo. I'm like, I wonder if this is going to look at all, but I was playing with it the other day. I'm like, you know what? I actually kind of love this app. I love watching videos and this I'm like, I got to ship this puppy. And then I'm like, well, I got to make money off of this puppy. Actually. That's what I really think too. And I was debating like, um, okay. So the last app I released, I just did a pay upfront. It is, I believe. 6 or 7. Night Vision Goggles! Night Vision Goggles [00:04:12] James: all 10 of you go buy it. It's in the name. It's Night Vision Goggles. Here's the cool part about Night Vision Goggles. Sometimes, uh, the name of a product sells the product. It's very clear. What is this? Yes. Night vision goggles. Like you can understand what that app is. No need to further sell. So if it delivers, the purchase price is well worth it. [00:04:40] Frank: Because I do zero marketing, I can't have cutesy names for my apps. My app name has to say what the app does. So that when people search for it, they're like, Yes, that is what I am searching for. I want some night vision up in this thing. Uh, so, uh, I was kind of happy. Um, I, I really honestly prefer pay upfront apps. But we've talked about this a million times on the podcast. Um, the App Store still doesn't have, um, trial. Additions of apps. So it's becoming a bigger and bigger ask in this world of everything's a web app to pay up front for an app. You want to try it out before you do it. And that was the concern I was having. I thought, um, This is an interesting app, but I wasn't sure, um, If I could convince people that it was interesting just from screenshots and descriptions and all that stuff. So once again, James, I believe this might be the fifth or sixth time on this podcast. I was having the freemium versus pay up front debate in my head, and I decided to, uh, get your opinion on it because I prize your opinion because you have a PM monkey on your back. [00:05:47] James: Yes. Uh, And yes, the freemium model is in this regard, the absolute correct way to go because this is an application that you must try. Uh, I, I believe you're correct. There is no good way, in my opinion, even with video, you could do a little sizzle reel before and after, um, with descriptions. I believe that people need to try it. They need to, uh, see it, to believe it. So a free, a free, uh, me yum. Free medium model needs to be the way to go. And then the question becomes how to monetize. There's many, many ways of monetizing. The first thing I went to first was, um, credits. I'm a big fan of, uh, you know, uh, yeah, it's a gamification. [00:06:33] Frank: You brought up something funny. You said tokens because, um, the app does use AI. It's doing, it's doing real AI. This is like some, I'm really excited because like I've been into like convolutional neural networks, vision networks since 2017. Not to show my creds, but to show my creds, I've been into it since 2017. Yeah, it's nothing. Um, but I'm excited because this would be the first app that actually runs a real neural network doing its main task on device. Like this is, the app is nothing without the neural network. It is running a neural network, but it's on device. So not uploading anything to the server, super secure, nothing to worry about there. Just eats your battery a tiny bit, but that's fine. It's fine. Just plug in a little when you're watching 3D movies. Um, It's, and then, so I thought it was super funny when you said AI credits because you, you sent shivers down my back because our whole future is going to be AI credits and tokens and oh boy, it's going to be a wonderful future. So no, I, I don't think that's the right way to go for this app because the neural network is actually running on it. [00:07:43] James: Gobi, you know, there's a few different ways. Let me talk about the tokenization of the application here is, um, You could, so for example, I want to use like Bing, um, the Bing image creator, uh, with Dolly 3, there's a token system. So you get tokens on there. You have so many tokens. I don't really know if you can buy tokens. I haven't used them. You give you like a hundred, a hundred credits. [00:08:05] Frank: I've bought tokens for Dolly. I haven't tried the Bing Dolly. [00:08:10] James: Yeah. These are big. Boost credits. I have 25 boost credits. It says, use your boost to create images more quickly. If you run out, image generation may take longer. I don't know how to get more. Um, but I'll find out in about 25, 25 more. [00:08:24] Frank: MS Paint use credits cause like MS Paint has. AI being Dolly stuff in it now, pro, doesn't it? [00:08:34] James: I think there's some new stuff, but it's on like the windows insider track. I don't think I have whatever. You're not on it [00:08:39] Frank: yet. Okay. Yeah. I am curious how people are going to end up paying for that. If it's an MS paint, you know, everyone runs paint. So I'm curious how that model is. [00:08:49] James: Yeah, it'd be fascinating. So I feel like you could be like, Oh, Hey, every day you get a credit or, you know, every week you get a certain amount of credits and you could buy more credits or you could. You know, you don't want to like artificially make things slower or whatnot, but you could do something in that regard. I think that that's one way of doing it because if people are heavy users and they're doing a bunch of videos or that there could be, you know, I think that it's a per video price seems totally fine. Cause then it doesn't matter if it's 30 seconds or three hours. It's like, Hey, one, one, one credit, but you don't want to do like a per, you know, when we do Zencaster, right? So, so here's an example. And Zencaster, we, we use credit systems. So we are on the free. Free tier, but we pay for processing credits, which does a bunch of cool stuff. Uh, and I just found that because the, just the price per ratio of how much we podcast, it makes more sense to do this bulk purchasing of credit hours. So we buy credit hours and if we record for an hour, we use one hour of credit hours, I buy 80 credit hours in a bulk, the more I buy. The bigger the discount. So if you buy 10 hours, it's a certain price, if you buy whatever. So you could do that. You could be like, oh, this video is 10 hours. You know, I'm going to process blah, blah, blah. That's one way of doing it. That's probably not my favorite way of doing it. Cause I feel like then you're nickel and diming people in general that just want to test it out. [00:10:11] Frank: You know what I mean? Let me interrupt because okay. Yeah. Cause that one seems related to other options. That one is almost a version of time limiting. Like, I used to do a lot of shareware when I was a kid. All my games were shareware. And some of them would be like, you get to play for five minutes, ha ha, pay for the real thing. And so that's good old fashioned time limiting. I feel like that's very old fashioned though. I don't want to implement timeline, but so it occurred to me, this credits thing is almost like the modern time limiter. It is now like, 'cause Yeah, I'm You get what? X free credits a day. Throwing a random number there to keep the, the ga gambling juices flowing and Yeah. Allow people to purchase credits. Oh, that's very modern. Um, I, I don't think I have it in my heart to do it. Um, but not bad. Every app. I know a friend of the show, Joseph Hill, has at least told me once, and I hope that this wasn't really in confidence, I don't believe, but, um, he hates credits. Yeah. I believe his response was, really? [00:11:15] James: Yeah. Credits? Credits, yeah. [00:11:17] Frank: So I, I tend to respect his opinion and he seemed to not like credits, but, you know, it is a modern world. Um, everyone plays video games and video, Credits are the lifeblood of video games these days, so I guess it will be a viable option. Okay, I, I, I honestly, I tossed that one off to the side immediately, but You've backed it up a little bit, you've done it justice. [00:11:40] James: You know, I'm just saying, you know, if you look at Fortnite, you buy V Bucks, you could buy H Bucks, Holo Bucks, uh, in app currency. So I do think that it's relatively modern. I think it'd be a time based thing, right? So that means if you have really long videos, you're going to pay for that time consumption of how long the video is to be processing or watching X, Y, Z. That's definitely one way of doing it. I feel as though, I don't know. I just don't like it. . [00:12:10] Frank: No, I don't like it either. I'm super scatterbrained. Okay. It would have to be time because it certainly couldn't be video play. Yeah. Because I, I'm an idiot. I, uh, I have the attention span of a cat. I'm like, watch three minutes of a video, watch three minutes of another video, of three minutes of another video. So, uh, it would have to work with that model. I, I don't like it. Not, not for this app. Who, who's ever heard of a video player app that takes credits? I guess a jukebox does, now that I [00:12:42] James: answer [00:12:42] Frank: my own [00:12:42] James: question. So then, then it comes down to what you said earlier, which was essentially. It's in trial mode. There's limits. You know, when I, when I, back in my day, when I created my cadence, there was another app called Cadence and I put mine, not mine. That was not my cadence. It's somebody's cadence. I don't know whose it is. Uh, so the Cadence app, they, no, I, when I divide, when I developed my Cadence, I wasn't aware of. Maybe I was aware of the Cadence app. Uh, I think I was aware of it, but it wasn't working really well for me. Uh, for some reason and I was like, I want to build this app and I wanted to learn Bluetooth. So I built this little app for myself and I gave it to the world. And I said, I'm going to make this free cause this just should be out there. Now the Cadence app, uh, that one was time based. They said, unlimited five minute rides. And not many people are riding their bike for only five minutes. That seems a little bit much. I guess you could. Start over five minutes, you know, XYZ kind of like reconnect, kind of like you could, you could game the system right inside of it. So I came along and I said, I'm going to give you, I'm going to give you the base functionality for free. And then I'm gonna give you pro features and you can do pro subscription. You can do a pro thing. So that is the one way of doing it in general, which is like, Hey. Everything's for free, but then there's like pro modes that you get or pro things. So for example, um, maybe for example, everybody gets 480p video that you can press it down. But then if you upgrade, you get the 1080p goodness, right? Like that's the pro mode of this application. It's unlimited, everything kind of easy coding, right? Did you buy the upgrade? Cool. You get full resolution. Boom. Right. That's one thing. Or you can do the other thing, which is everyone gets high resolution and you only get five minutes, right? Five minute video cap. It ends after five minutes and ad plays. Well, or there's ads, you know, there's ads that play in 3d. So that's one way of doing it. Um, you could insert ads, you could insert ads that are hovering. Uh, in the, in the vision, you could do it's a combination of both. There you go. You could do a combination of both. It could be time limits. It could be this other stuff. I think any of these work, Frank. I think, I think you pick one. If I was you, you pick one and you just put it out into the world. You AB test it. Maybe I would do multiple, maybe like ones for the first week. It's timed for the next release. It's something else. I don't know. You know what I mean? You could, you could really mix it up. Right. And just. Give it a go, or maybe just Davey test it. The more important part, in my opinion, is not how you monetize this. I think any of those are, I think that you pick one. I think credits would work. I think that I don't like it, but credits would work. I think limiting it to get into a pro mode, I think. Unlimited everything except for resolution will work. Any of these would work because if people like it, they're going to give you more money for it. Right. Um, and that could be it. You give people a credit, you know, a credit a week, you know, any, the more important part of this is I think the first 30 seconds of this application. Ooh. No. Okay. So I'm boarding. We just pivoted the episode. We've done, we've done episodes, but not together. Right. So now we've done the first 15 minutes. This application lives or dies in the first 30 seconds. And wow. Yeah, it really does. [00:16:10] Frank: So I can't flip a square NX logo up, slowly fade it in with dramatic music for the first 30 seconds. Like every other game in the world does. Okay, fine. [00:16:19] James: You could, uh, I like the, like a claim Iguana low. You could do like something, uh, you could do like a rare aware where like the rare thing is like, uh, going, um, I, I, [00:16:31] Frank: I got 30 seconds to convince My conversion window. You're telling me whether they're going to upgrade to pro or not. [00:16:37] James: It's [00:16:38] Frank: all, whatever down the limits. Yeah. If they are within 30 seconds, if [00:16:43] James: they're even going to use your app to understand the potential of your application, they will need a 30 seconds to wow. So. Here's what I'm thinking. You're replicating before you ship it. Don't, you better not ship it with all this feature. I swear, Frank, I swear, I swear. You are saying it on a podcast. So [00:17:04] Frank: this has to happen. [00:17:07] James: The first 30 seconds of this application, the most important 30 seconds of this applications life, because it's going to show the entire potential of what this can do, and this is the demo sizzle. Amazing thing. Imagine. When you booted up GoldenEye for the first time on the Nintendo 64, you are instantly spins. Yep. Yep. It instant, instantaneously brings you into the world or even, and then all of a sudden it's like, there's like a whole sizzle reel. It's like demo reel thing. It's like showing you the potential where you're gonna play or imagine, for example, the first time you play Super Mario 64 for the first time, there's the huge Mario and you can interact with it. You can do, you're experiencing 3d for the first time. You're like, I am about to, I'm about to experience. This is. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. What your application needs to do is it needs to show that, you know, on websites, even though the internet is terrible, on websites where there's that slider, the before and after, like, you know what I mean? Like there's a house makeover or it's like the backyard. It's like before and after it's like, you can live, there's two images. But you can do the slider. That's essentially what this is. This intro is a video playing. And then there is literally like a big button that comes up on the screen. It's like hollow eyes it right. It's like, whatever it is digitize. Right. And it's like more, and then it's like. And then it does a big, it does a three, 3d mesh animation, right? And then it's all of a sudden it's like, boom. And here's the thing is you've crafted this experience. It could just be a video playing for, for who knows what it is, but probably that's what it is, but this is going to show, I guess it would, I guess it might be the thing in real, actually, whatever it, I don't know how you're going to do this, but it needs to be. Unbelievable. Amazing. It needs to blow their minds. Oh my, they need to see the book because you will hand select perfect video. Like this is like the ones that work very well. The perfect video. Right. And it's like, right. And then they're going to experience it in front of their eyes and they're going to be like, wow, like this is it. It's like, um, it's like the first time you put on virtual reality for the first time and you're like, You know, wow, this is so cool. I'm like riding a roller coaster. And I was just like, I get it, right. Um, it's the first time you put on the vision pro and the thing happens. It's like, Oh, wow. It's like right there, you know, exactly the tap. It's the, the tapping of the dots. That's all. That's what this is, is that moment, uh, and this onboarding, it's not even a tutorial. It is a, yeah, it's, it's an odd 15, 20 second demo reel. That you force them to watch ahead of time. That's what you need. [00:19:58] Frank: Uh, I love this idea. I'm really happy we had this discussion. Um, I, I can't help myself. Can I tell you the people you're ripping off? Because it's such a good idea. It's been done before. [00:20:09] James: Oh, sure. [00:20:09] Frank: Do you remember when the, um, special editions of Star Wars were coming out? Yep. They had the famous, um, X Wings flying over Yavin or something, whatever. Who knows? They had it like on the little TV screen. [00:20:23] James: Yeah. [00:20:24] Frank: Super compressed the audio. So it sounded like it was coming out of a tin can. And then they just like, and now the special editions, there's an explosion and it goes widescreen and it goes HD and they uncompressed the audio. Thank God. And actually allowed it to change through. It's a good trick, by the way, audio is a good trick. You just add a compression layer to it. And everyone's like, Oh, bad audio, good audio. You fool, you fool. Relatively good audio. [00:20:49] James: Yeah, [00:20:50] Frank: exactly. Yep. Um, yeah, that is a wonderful, and I said trick, but you know, I mean it in a good way, it's, it's, it's convincing. It's like, oh, right. Um, and honestly, it's an, it's a, it's a pretty easy one for me to pull off because I think Apple didn't do a good enough job, um, providing that exact experience that you're talking about with their spatial videos. Um, you go into their spatial video recorder and it's an empty. Empty little land there. You gotta, you gotta fill it up with your own spatial videos and start doing that stuff. And they didn't give you that experience. So I think that really would be a wonderful introduction to the app. I don't know how I'm going to transition them from 2D video to 3D video back to the main app UI without just loading up. NET MAUI, Xamarin Forms, Xamarin Forms, Dot Net MAUI, NET MAUI, Xamarin Forms, Xamarin That's that face through. Um, I love the [00:22:01] James: drip. Yeah. It's like when you go to the movie theaters, talking about THX, when you go to the movie theaters, you get the Dolby Atmos and it's like all around you. It's like creepy. Yeah. It's like, okay, cool. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks Dolby. Gary. I get it. [00:22:17] Frank: Uh, this is a great, this is like, um, this is. This is better than onboarding. Um, this is the vid I think this is what you would want in your little video, too. Like, I could probably take Nah, maybe I wouldn't want to take that exact opening and make that the video for the app. Because, by the way, everyone, if you are taking the time to program an application to upload to the App Store, Record a 30 second video to upload with your app. I am getting really tired of apps not having videos. So I don't get anything from a screenshot. Upload a video of your app running everyone. Okay. Sorry. Small PSA. Um, it's a funny mix. Like, cause yeah, we're saying like the description can't do it, but you're saying yes, this onboarding, it's not onboarding, but this opening trailer, uh, can sell the app. It's funny cause it is a free meal map. So you are still kind of in sales mode. The first time they opened it up. Okay. Thank you, monkey on James back. [00:23:15] James: It's the cell because the, the problem that I also have with a lot of apps that don't do this is there's two ways of going around it. There is the, welcome to the app. I'm going to do these little pop ups and guide you through this navigation, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Um, uh, you know, what. What you need is that, that wow. And a good example of this was recently on the Adobe podcast, uh, uh, app that they have podcast. adobe. com. It's a really cool app that you can use for free to enhance your audio. Uh, you can also become a paid member and then you get express and you get the podcast, but what. The Adobe podcast software does online is it, it for all intents and purposes makes any audio that anyone records through the power of AI and magic, make it sound like you're in a studio. It is so unbelievably good. So good. [00:24:13] Frank: I have been wanting that forever. Um, cool. You know, I'll, I'll have to check that one out myself. [00:24:18] James: It's so good. And even if you have a great mic, it can even increase your mic and you can do the slider from like zero to a hundred percent. So for me, for example, where do you have green mics? So I don't think we, I think I enhanced, I think I might've enhanced audio on the last week one, just for fun to try it out, but I can turn it down to like 75, you know, cause we already have good mics, but if people have like AirPods or whatever, it just makes it sound like you're in a studio. It's so good. Just everyone should just run it through. But the thing is when you go to the website. There's a big button that's like, play sample. And it's like, before, after, like, wow, so like, wow, that is incredible. It's like 10 seconds. So I like, wow, yes, that is what I want. And then it's kind of like, I don't believe you. Right. Yeah. You know, you're like you, I believe you like that sounds cool. No way. And then when you do it now, here's the thing that actually has to follow up. It's like, you need to, what I would do next. Is not only do you do this thing, and then you also have in the application, a bunch of sample videos that are like really fun. Like your cat playing with something, you know what I mean? That's like fun. Like just whatever, some video, the, the, the, the, the bunny one or whatever it is, something that looks like really good. So you have a few samples, right? That are like, Oh, wow, this is cool. So they can go from like, here's something that you've clearly curated. Like, Oh, okay. These are videos. Like I get it. Like, here's Frank playing with a cat to like, then pick a video. And then they could say, okay, obviously, clearly not only is the video of this developer showing me really good, there's a few samples in here, so I can kind of scope those out and see it kind of like when you open up eye circuit, right? There's a bunch of samples. It's like, Hey, Just don't give me a blank canvas. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what the heck I'm doing. Show me some samples. Right. So give me some sample videos. Just, just one or two or three. Something, something small. I think something fun, like animated and then something real world. That's all you need that end up working well, because then people will see it. Then they can pick their own video that you would allow them to pick their own video, but they might just try your videos anyways, just to scope them out. Why not? And then they pick their own video. Like, oh, wow. Cool. You know, and then obviously like the results may vary, but they could see clearly like, okay, like, obviously this is how, this is how it works. You know what I mean? So I think from Rockstar, this thing works amazing. It's a banger to here's a few sample apps, pick your own. Import your own. And then having that with the application is going to show them from start to finish the experience that, that they have to, to work around with. I think [00:26:42] Frank: you have criticized me in the past for empty apps when they come up and they're just like, here's a full screen list of view that has zero items in it and zero on plus button. Do you see the little plus? Do you see the plus? What else are you going to do? You got to hit the little plus. Um, I think you've at least taught me to, uh, make, make, It's something up here, a full screen [00:27:06] James: at first, the era of AI has taught us something people don't know what to do when you go to like the Bing image creator, they need to tell you, you don't even know what to do. Imagine the first time. I mean, this is probably what happened when first people booted up chat GPT. It was like a blank thing. It's like, start typing. Like, what do I even ask it right now? There's like a whole bunch of things. It's like, Oh, here's all these amazing images of the Bing image creator. Like, Oh, the whole prompts, like, Oh, I didn't try. Like. Create something like this. Let me change the dog with a cat, you know? Oh, wow. There's a cat sleeping in a sauna. Like why, you know, having a great time in the mountainside, you know what I mean? Like, oh, this is so cool. Like, and then they, then they add in little recommendations. Oh, did you want to do blah, blah, blah. Do you want to do this? You know what I mean? So I think they need, people need to be. Helped along in the beginning. [00:27:53] Frank: Yeah, that, that's definitely the onboarding thing, but I, I do, right. So we need a not empty app in the beginning because it just looks like a ghost town. Correct. It's a little bit scary. I think word and apps get around it with templates. Like they're, they don't ship you examples, but the templates are basically the examples. Um, It's not onboarding because especially for this app, the UI is not complicated. It's a video playing app. I'm going to show you some thumbnails of some videos. You're going to click the thumbnail. Video is going to play. Everyone knows, everyone knows this UI. Um, so I don't really need to onboard them. Yeah. So it's just a matter of get some sample videos in there. I have to debate whether to, um, actually put them into the bundle. Or put them on like a Azure Blob server or something [00:28:42] James: like that. Shove them in there. No one cares. You think so? Someone has a couple more megabytes. Someone asked me recently. They said, uh, you know, obviously smaller files, right? You're not going to do huge. Someone asked me, I was doing a video on like crash reporting. Oh, does this crash reporting, you know, software, you know, DLL, is it, it, does it increase the size of my app? Nobody cares. That's it. I mean, what is it? Does it, is it going to increase like two mags? Like no one cares. Like Facebook's like half a gig. Like nobody cares. [00:29:10] Frank: So yeah, I figured each [00:29:11] James: video would probably be [00:29:11] Frank: about three megabytes and then the intro video or whatever. Yeah. No, I mean the neural network itself. I'm very proud because, you know, the, the code is tight. The code is small, but, um, the neural network itself is 70 megabytes. So that's the, that's the anti side. So for my app, you know, you're getting that 70 megabytes whether you want it or not. So, uh, yeah, I can throw them in definitely a few more megabytes. Exactly. There you go. So video of the cat, some one wheeling Holly's and kickflips. [00:29:45] James: Boom. I can't do, [00:29:46] Frank: can't do a kickflip on a one wheel. Um, yep, maybe, maybe a. Nature shot of a drone. Do you think people, I'm, I'm curious about people's motion sickness level because I was watching some drone footage in automatic 3D. Can, uh, it can get you spinning a little bit. So I'll have to decide, uh, what's the best video to put on there. [00:30:08] James: Yeah. Like you slow drone footage, like put in the cinematic mode, the C mode. Yeah. [00:30:17] Frank: Oh, it just, I didn't even occur to me. I need to put a little rate slider on there so people can watch in slow mode and fast mode. There you go. [00:30:24] James: Oh, yeah, that's one of my favorite features. Like my pocket cast that I use for podcast players is increasing by, I think I go back at 1. 4, 1. 35. I don't know. I'm just like always slowly creeping it up a little bit. So sliders are good, especially if you have control of it in your code, because you can slide it up back and forth. So, um, there you go. Now, now you'll be, uh, You did. So [00:30:46] Frank: what, what are, what are your fees? I mean, p pm contract work, what does that go for these days? [00:30:52] James: Well, it's just 30 minutes of my time. Uh, my going rate is too expensive, but this one, Frank, for friend, friend rate, this one's on me. Just for me. We're not gonna release this episode. We don't want people to get this information for free. Well, you know what people can do to help support the pod and refund my time. If you listen this far, you can become a Patreon subscriber. We talked about the Cybertruck this week. If you want to hear our thoughts about the Cybertruck and ants, uh, the insects, you can become a Patreon subscriber at patreon. com forward slash merger. Conflict FM. There's a link in the show notes below. Get exclusive behind the scenes insight into the lives and times of Frank Krueger, even free trial. So you, if you'd be like your free trial, I don't know if they're really putting out so you behind the scenes, check it out. And then that money is split 50 50 between me and Frank. Can you believe 50 Frank gets half of your 5 after fees. So after taxes and all this stuff that Frank will make 2 off, he'll make more money off of Patreon. Then his application, you know why he hasn't released the app yet. So hello for now, for now, until he does that. And he'll just be a billionaire and they'll be good to go. Um, has the Apple vision pro run its course, Frank, I haven't heard much about it. What's this, what's the word on the street in the vision pro community. [00:32:22] Frank: Oh, I think we're getting all the negative reviews right now. I think the honeymoon period is over. [00:32:28] James: Yeah. [00:32:29] Frank: Um, the 30 day window to return home has expired, so we're all looking at our 3500 hour decisions in the mirror. Uh, no, I think, um, yeah, I would say right now is probably a low time because we're all still trying to figure out, okay, we all agree, like this device, it's a good device, it's still a little heavy on the nose, otherwise a good device. [00:32:52] James: Yeah. [00:32:52] Frank: It's biggest problem is there's nothing engaging to do in that world. Aside from browse the web, which is honestly, it's better at browsing the web, but you're constantly making this kind of, cost benefit analysis of, do I want to get Hathead for the rest of the day and is the battery charged or not to browse the web, or should I just use my tiny, pathetic little phone to browse the web or something like that? And I think a lot of people are realizing that the Hathead just isn't worth it. And so they're using their phones. Um, I'm not lost on it though. I think, um, with any, I think people were getting overhyped for it in the beginning. Yeah. Like for episode after episode, we talked about it and I was like, I'm not seeing anything engaging here. I knew for a fact my Oculus had sit in the drawer for a year prior to this. Yeah. So I knew what I was in for. I think a lot of other people thought This was, no one thought this was going to be a new iPhone. We knew what this was going to be. Um, but the reality of that, I think is striking people and especially journalists, because journalists are writing some really negative stuff right now. And there is this, I think the biggest debate happening right now is, is this a personal, Isolating device, or is this a device meant to be used in a group with other people? And the answer we've always known, no, this is an isolating device. It's not meant to be used with other people around. It's awkward unless you have friends around and then it's fun. Cause you poke each other and do things like that, but otherwise it's not a social device. So I would say, uh, honeymoon's over. So we're getting the negative reviews. And I think, um, people are realizing that no matter how many stupid external screens you put on this thing, it's still an isolating device. [00:34:36] James: Yeah. And it's early days, V1, you know what I mean? Uh, it took time for the iPhone, you know? Um, first iPhone was amazing, but it really took some time. I feel like this device is very far. There's so much technology packed into this thing. Maybe it's a software thing. Maybe we're just waiting for some software. Maybe we're waiting for something else. You know, obviously things will get, Lighter, cheaper, faster, stronger, right. Just like everything else, or at least even remain the same price and get lighter, faster, you know, uh, as well, uh, more powerful. Uh, so it's fascinating. I. I'm still excited for the device. Uh, even though I wasn't that big of a fan when I, when I put it on my head, but I think of all VR devices, this is the one that I would be the most excited for long term. So Apple doesn't release anything lightly, you know what I mean? So we will see where it goes. And I'll repeat what, [00:35:32] Frank: from my personal perspective, um, I've had quests, my, ever since they've been coming out, and I've never been able to get an app onto their app stores. And yet, in, well, it took nine days. You got it! But I got my, an app into the app store that you can use on a VR device. So in my opinion, it disqualifies all the other devices. Like this is the only device that even exists in my head. So I'm willing to put up with some faults at the [00:36:02] James: moment. On your head. It's the only device that exists on your head. [00:36:06] Frank: Well, right now it's in it. Next episode, it's going to be on it. There you go. Alright, [00:36:10] James: well that's going to do it for this week's Merge Conflict. I really appreciate everyone tuning in. Um, check out our Patreon. Patreon. com forward slash MergeConflict. fm We have a YouTube where you can see our other videos. Faces. Uh, if you want to, uh, youtube. com forward slash at merge conflict FM follow, subscribe, like comment. Uh, I will give a shout out to one of the commenters. Pretty sure on YouTube that said we made a big mistake with episode 404, which it should have been, uh, episode not found. Whoops. Oops. Uh, what? It's a good joke. [00:36:44] Frank: I'm not smart. We're not that smart. We had one shot. We messed it up. Sorry. We did it. 500s will be fun. Yes. We had a lot of fun with the [00:36:52] James: 500s. There you go. Uh, let us know what you think, leave comments, leave reviews. If you're on your podcast application, share with a friend, hit follow, hit subscribe, all the things. That's it for this week's Emergency Conflicts. So until next time, I'm James Montemagno. And I'm Frank Krueger. Thanks for watching and listening. Peace.