mergeconflict297 === [00:00:00] James: Frank let's go, ultra, [00:00:12] Frank: peak performance. We need more performance computers have not gotten better yet. We have to keep going until we hit the peak. We'll find the peak and we'll build a new mountain and go to its peak until we found ultra mountain. And then we'll go to it. [00:00:27] James: Yeah, it's kinda like, you know, I'm always working out cause I'm trying to get into like peak, you know, optimized shape for cycling. And once I reached that peak, I'm hoping that my performance matches, you know, my, uh, anyways, we're talking about the apple peak performance event today. People a [00:00:44] Frank: metaphor and it was about [00:00:48] James: was too. That was too much. Now we're not going to start with the alternate of it because I actually, Frank, I thought that they were going to announce. And M too, but there's, there's there's yet one more M one, but Frank, we honestly have to start at the beginning, which is they did it, Frank, they made a third edition of the iPhone se, which I have the second edition in my hand. And Frank, it looks 100%. Exactly the. It's oh [00:01:14] Frank: my gosh. It's like a, it's like a product that they're updating and maintaining and continuing to add to. I'm so proud of apple. They're growing up into a real company and I guess it is easy because you just take last year's chip and throw it in the same body, but you know what good on them because they've let the se languish for what, two years, three years before. It's on every other [00:01:38] James: year, every other year. Now, what, what if I told you Frank, that it has, it has the same retina display. It has the same ultra wide camera. I mean, it has four Jeep, you know? Okay. It has, it has all the same thing. So honestly, Exactly the same and for all intents and purposes and be there and be like no germs or something different. No, it has the, it has basically the same exact everything. The main difference is that they upgraded the eight, 15 bionic chip instead of the eight 13. And that gives. You know, uh, newer CPU and more neural cores and an upgraded GPU, and they'll split five G in it. That's the big thing they put 5g in the entry-level device. And now the entire product line is 5g from start to finish. And that to me is pretty great. I actually, I love my iPhone, um, as the second generation, by the way, but I'll tell you this much, the. It's not very good. Oh, I mean, compared, I mean, I am judging it against how there's iPhone 12 pro, which I will be getting once she gets an iPhone teen pro this fall that'll have. And I, I, you know, I let her take the photos, but beyond that, it is a great device for $400. So it is a fantastic device and it has a touch ID and this one still has a touch ID, you know? [00:03:01] Frank: Yeah, gosh, you just covered everything. I wanted to say it's the touch ID, honestly, because that is a nice feature, a face ID. Although I love technology and I love lasers and LIDAR and all that stuff. I'm honestly still a little iffy on face ID and I've been from a security standpoint. And does it work? Is it worth it? My thumb is pretty reliable. Oddly enough, we've kind of developed that technology very well. The iPhone se is an amazing phone. I made fun of you a little because you wanted to talk about it in the patriotic episode. And I totally forgot about it because I just don't pay attention. But $430 for last year's pro chip in a phone. Uh, that's a killer. Uh, so, uh, everyone, if you're thinking about upgrading or switching or something, go get it because $430, it's an amazing deal for that processor. [00:03:51] James: And even if you wanted to kind of keep in line with, if you had, have you, even in this one, if. If Heather, wasn't gonna give me your hand, me down or something happened to it. I probably would upgrade to this one again, because it does have 5g and it does, there are some optimizations in the, in the camera itself and the front facing camera. And there's deep fusion on this and it has, you know, some slow-mo video support that's been upgraded as well. It's not a momentum update, but in general, you're. Paying for the better processor, which this, you know, this one, the eight, 13, it hiccups a little bit here and there on 1,504, but I am developer beta, but not in terrible. Like not, yeah, not like, oh, this is slow. Yeah, no, no, it's never been unusable, but you know, the one thing I really like here is they've also in crease the battery, uh, uh, used to percentage on a two. Up to 15 hours of video playback compared to 13. And that means for me, it's going to get almost a whole day if I was looking at it because mine almost does get a whole day. [00:04:53] Frank: You don't get to jump on your phone. Um, that is tricky about the smaller size. Yeah. Cause I've been rocking pros for the last couple of generations and I always get more than a day easily. Well, we [00:05:05] James: are on holiday and we definitely, neither of us did that is for sure. It's all about reception, right? When I'm in my house full day on wifi, not a big deal. Um, and I, and I bought a little inductive wireless charger, and my phone just sits there all day anyways, and it's just discharging it a hundred percent. Well. And also my, my port, my, my lightening port stopped working on my phone so I can charge via a wireless. [00:05:31] Frank: I'm thinking about upgrading only because I don't know what I've done to my poor little port. I mean, I do know my phone spent five days at the bottom of. I'm sure that didn't help the port, but it hasn't really been healing either. I've been waiting for it to just get better, but it hasn't been. And so I'm thinking I'm just going to give it to my dad and let him clean it while I get, I get a fresh new phone. Yeah. That'll [00:05:54] James: work. I [00:05:55] Frank: like that trick series. That's how I clean the port. Finally. [00:06:01] James: I like it. Okay. I pad air fifth generation. [00:06:05] Frank: Yep. So here's a thought, James, what if we take our baseline model and take last year's processor and put it in it [00:06:14] James: I'm in this sounds like a great [00:06:15] Frank: idea. We'll do it. I'm messing around Arab. Got a wonderful upgrade. The iPad error basically became an iPad. Um, he came last year's iPad pro, which is an amazing iPad pro it's good for the air. I'm a little jealous, cause I just bought an iPad pro I would rather have paid less money for an iPad air because I wanted the one feature that I love that they're putting on these things. It's that wide it's ultra. Ultra ultra wide angle lens on the front. And that is absolutely amazing. I know I've talked about it on the show before. I just want to keep giving apple props for it because I do like it as a face time call thing. Cause it tracks you and it's not always looking up your nose and it puts you in the center of the frame. What are they. Center stage or something like that center stage. Yeah. Uh, that's a wonderful feature and I'm honestly looking forward to all their devices, having it. It's a pretty big game changer. And we'll actually talk about that when we talk about the surface monitor that they release, because I think that that's a pretty killer. [00:07:17] James: Studio monitor confuse with that can be confused with a surface [00:07:22] Frank: surface. I am so sorry. [00:07:25] James: Well, I was, you know, I was, there's a lot of so many similar names. Um, so it really depends. Right. So who is this thing for it's for someone that, uh, once in a bigger iPad that does. Necessarily need the full spectrum of cameras or the upgraded space. Cause there's only up to 2 56, uh, on, on a, compared to two terabytes on the row. And obviously it doesn't have the ultra wide. Uh, camera on the back, just got the one bump, [00:08:01] Frank: unless you're a serious gamer on an iPad. And I honestly don't know of any serious gamers on the iPad. I don't think it really need the hard drive, upgrade, whatever you want to call it. The SSD upgrade the flash upgrade. iPad air is the iPad to go over. I love the pros, just because I'm a technology snob. And I love to have the newest and greatest little bits of technology and they get them first, but the good stuff trickles down to the iPad error. And in this case, this is a great year for an iPad air. What is the starting price of that puppy though? I'm curious. Let me go [00:08:33] James: check. So the iPad air starting is 5 99, which. Only $100 more than the iPad, mini six generation, which is what I got Heather for Christmas. They both start at 64 gigs of storage at that 5 99 and they go up another $150. The 2 56 on wifi only. The difference here between those two is size, obviously, but also the versus the . I'll tell you this much though. I, this is my personal opinion. I pad S has not yet been fully optimized about preacher as many. No, no. For a mini display, the 8.3. What they did is. They made things smaller and it doesn't look as good on the iPad mini. So I actually have, I think maybe they're going to iterate on it more, but this is one of the criticisms in the iPad. Mini six generation was that the iPad at west the scale was almost like they downscaled every. 20% to fit it in there instead of having like one less row of, of widgets and things like that. So I think hers is a really good, uh, she really likes it for the size. I think anything bigger as far as like an 11 inch tablet would have bit too much because her and I both were like the seven inch Google nexus tablet back in the day, that was like the seven inch was like, perfect. Yeah. Um, so I think it's good. The, and it comes in a new blue, which I like this iPad air, but the, I still don't think iPad S is that here's the problem. iPad away. Give me a freaking weather app. You tap wetter and it opens the stupid browser. What is going on? [00:10:21] Frank: I'm not going to answer for apple. No one can figure this while now it takes, it takes a marketing genius and a, a supply line optimizer to figure out why we can't have a weather app that support indie devs, go get carrot weather. I don't know, but it is totally stupid. I don't get it, but they do. The color Starlight James, and it is a beautiful off-white color. And I really want it. Apple always does bleach white. I hate bleach white. So this is Starlight. It's pretty Starlight. I [00:10:56] James: want it. I think I got Heather pink. I want to say I like the project. Get a purple. Purple, really nice. I'm a big fan of the purple. [00:11:03] Frank: So sorry. I do want to go back to what you were saying about resolution though. Real quick. I have always felt. IPad mini it's definitely were smaller. They definitely felt like we are squeezing some things in here, but it was always not pushing it. It was still comfortable to use. That's why it was such a popular device. And so I'm actually curious myself. That's the first time I've actually heard that kind of feedback before. And so I haven't used one me personally. Now I feel like I should, I should be trying it and trying my apps on them. Um, have you tried just increasing the font or something? [00:11:37] James: No. Oh, no, we did. Okay. Yeah. It's still, it's still, it's still funky. You should yeah. Get yourself to an apple store or a best buy. It's a, it's a funky, it's funky. That's all I can say [00:11:51] Frank: about it. Yeah. I'm getting that vibe from you honestly. Yeah. Oh, the first time [00:11:54] James: I saw it and even Heather was like, it's kinda weird. I kinda, it's also, there's like weird space. There's like a weird spacing all around. I'm sure if you watched a video on it or something like that, you. Um, but I felt like they could do just optimize if you watch the video. If you, if you, if you go to the iPad mini website, it doesn't do it justice. You're going to look at it. You're going to say James, that looks amazing, but it doesn't look like that. Everything looks smaller. We even bumped up everything on it. And I was like, I don't know what they did, but something is a little off with it. So I would definitely try that. I also think that the, the finger print reader in the, um, the power button is a little. [00:12:39] Frank: You have never used one. She's a little odd. I honestly, I don't really, when, when I first got the M on air, I was, I was, it was my first touch ID and I kinda loved it. It was great because you didn't have to type your password in as much, but now I like it a little bit less because things that never even required your password now require. Because added security, I guess. Uh, I D I saw, I don't like that. And I don't like the fact that if my fingers a little bit, you know, sweaty or greasy, or I was painting or something, you know, it just doesn't work. And so, uh, technology, technology, we, we just want something that's 90% of the time working and touch ID is probably there. So I'm curious to see how that button compares to like the EHRs. [00:13:26] James: Yeah, but ins it's good advice to get advice. I don't I'm, I'm not a tablet person we've talked about this, but again, when the theme that they have is the M one effication of their product line. So. [00:13:42] Frank: Yeah, and honestly, it's great. It's great. From a programming model too. I love a simplification like this. Um, when I, it was really funny. I was developing neural network library software on my air and it was got it working and I was very happy with it. It was doing its training and all that, and I'm like, Hmm. I wonder how fast this is on my iPad. So I, you know, ran it over on the iPad. It was the exact same speed. And I'm like, oh right, Frank, same processor, the funniest thing on the planet. But my Mac software was literally running at the same speed. I that's probably not totally true. They probably clock them differently and all that. But for the neural network stuff, those, the GPS had the exact same performance. [00:14:29] James: That's pretty funny. That is funny. Interesting. It's also, yeah. Anyway, it's all good. It's all good. I'm I'm excited. Well, let's get, talk about the processors, frankly. Obviously these new iPhone knows he is in the iPad air. They got any processors, the iPad air. I was scanning them one, but we also got a new M one. Now let's recap. M one. I have that. I own that. I own an M one. [00:14:56] Frank: bros. [00:14:57] James: Yep. You're an M when I'm one breath, you're an M one ma we have the same. We have the same machine, correct? Yeah, [00:15:03] Frank: yeah, yeah. Did I get a better color at least? What color did you get? Pink, obviously. Yeah. Okay. You got the [00:15:09] James: better color. Yeah. I mean, one of colors are coming. I want [00:15:12] Frank: Starlight now. Now I want to Starlight Mac Starlight. [00:15:17] James: I think, um, Yeah. Oh, sorry. Gold. I got gold. Yeah. I did get the eight core a core. And then, yeah, I think you might've got more storage than me, but I did get the 16 gigs of Ram. I think I kept the five, 12 SSDs. [00:15:33] Frank: Right. So our arms are limited to 16 gig, and that was probably the biggest failing of the original and one. And it's not so much of failing. 16 gigs is pretty much all you need. Most of the time, it's just programmers were running terrible software and it eats all the Ram that you got. So it's, [00:15:49] James: it's fine, but fine. I really want. More. So they gave us more, they have the M one pro and the M one max, and those came out last year. If we remember those came out with the Mac book pros, MacBook [00:16:05] Frank: pros, and an iMac, right. And the thin. [00:16:10] James: Oh, we did get the thin iMac [00:16:14] Frank: 25 inch ish, [00:16:16] James: ish, 24 inches. [00:16:18] Frank: Yeah, that one. Uh, it's gorgeous. I still love that design. Uh, I was kind of hoping for a pro version of that design this time, but Nope. Uh, yeah, so we got it in the pro-line of laptops and we got in the new. [00:16:32] James: Yes. And those, uh, increased everything I believe up to 32 and 64 gigs of Ram right away. [00:16:40] Frank: Yeah. Roughly around there. Yeah. The max, I believe went to 64, the pro I don't remember what it's top-end. [00:16:48] James: 64. Yeah. 64. Yep. [00:16:51] Frank: Yeah. And each of those chips, um, apple kind of had that componentized architecture. So they added a few more CPU cores. They added a few more GPU cores, obviously increased the memory bus so that they could fit those 32 and 64 GBS. And it was nice during this presentation. I love it when apple shows their Silicon. The very first thing I studied in college was how to. Chips out of Silicon and I still love it. I think it's almost an art form at this point, but, uh, I, yeah, all that's just say, I, I I'm here for all their beautiful renderings of transit, everything. Yeah. So you could really see, like, it is a simple world. Like the bigger it is, the more stuff it has, uh, assuming the same tech, um, technology size, the same lens. And you, they showed a nice, uh, here's the , uh, Gallo bigger for the M one pro got quite a bit bigger for the M one max, and then they said something kind of interesting. And I'm curious what you made of this. They said, um, but there are physical limitations. There are physical reasons why you don't make a chip too much bigger than where we're already at. We've already kind of maxed out the Silicon here. So what did you think about that stuff? [00:18:12] James: To me, it sounded like probably some standardization, some heat, and, um, I guess the ability to move things back and forth on the boss and you know, a little bit, I'm not a, I'm not a dye expert, but my assumption is that. At some point to modify the board, like, doesn't make a lot of sense to make it bigger in some way. I don't know. What'd you make it? Yeah. [00:18:45] Frank: Yeah. Um, I was going back to what I was taught in school and that is somewhere around 15, 16, 20 years ago at this point. So take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt, but back then, and as far as I know, it's still kind of a limiting factor today. It's the clock. And the CPU that's the problem. And most importantly, keeping it synchronized between all the different components on the computer. So when that chip keeps getting bigger, although to us, it's tiny and the little electronics world, it's quite huge and they have to distribute this clock signal. All over that ship. Basic it's like the capillary system in your skin. You have to get that blood everywhere and it's needs to be way more synchronized than your blood system needs to be. And that's always been the hard part because you run into literal speed of light problems. The, the flow of information along wires does not happen at the speed of light. It's actually dramatically slower than the speed of light. And so the moment you have to keep that signal synchronized within nanosecond, precision, you know, it's precision because these things are running at gigahertz speeds. That becomes a real engineering obstacle. And so you get to this maximum size where it's basically, I just can't keep things inside. If I get any bigger. So that's, that's how I interpreted it. I just was curious [00:20:16] James: that that makes sense. So obviously the only way to, you know, make this thing more performance, if you're gonna, if you're already saying that the max is the biggest, you want to get, you know, this [00:20:29] Frank: thereabouts yeah. Let's say about 50% [00:20:32] James: or something. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want to increase it by 50 or 75%. What's what's the natural next step to actually. Make this thing faster, Frank, [00:20:43] Frank: are you asking me or are you, I wanted to say how they did it on the presentation because it was kind of, they did a nice little, here's a, here's a little computer architecture, everyone let's sit down for a computer architecture lesson. So the easiest way obviously is to just print two chips. And then connect their memory buses together. Uh, you make them share the same memory. Uh, you, you add a little bit of a memory controller that does a synchronization with that memory, but now it's okay. If those two chips aren't running perfectly in sync with each other, because you have this in between person, the memory controller, keeping everyone. You know, in their place, back in line, [00:21:21] James: they took, they took two maxes and shoved them together. [00:21:26] Frank: It's it's wonderful. It's wonderful because although I made it try to make it sound easy, it really is. You're just, you have to Independencia it seemed to just try to have this, this middle ground where they can actually talk to them. Apple bragged and bragged about their middle ground. Ooh. They are very proud of their chip interconnect that they have invented. They said something like four times faster than the industry standard chip interconnect. I don't know what the industry chat industry standards of connect is, but good job. Good job. Apple could use a few more asterix on those slides letting us actually know what you're referencing, but [00:22:03] James: yeah. Thanks animation. They had to gov connecting the chips at this level. Little things. It looked like something out of like, you know, robot matrix things where it's like all these little tiny tubes, like in there, like connecting up, uh, it was very well put together. Um, you know what I, [00:22:21] Frank: I like to think of that little intern interconnect as multithreading that's the magic that makes multithreading work. It is so easy to have two CPS. You buy one, you buy a second one and now you have to the hard part of getting them to talk to each other. And yeah, so it was, it was fun. I really liked that little computer architecture. So it's funny that they named it, the ultra because it very well could have been called the M one M two, cause it's. Two new ones. I mean, it's kind of natural. I'm surprised they didn't want to go there. I guess they want to save that for an architectural change or something like that. Jeans. I kept wondering, like, if they put the interconnect on one side of the chair, This is say they didn't put it on the other side either. Can you change them? Why can we have for [00:23:15] James: well, and what's going to stop you there. Why don't you just interconnect the other side of the other chip with it? So it just as a cascading effect, a network effect, [00:23:24] Frank: I mean, eventually. You have to synchronize those interconnects, but yeah. Yeah. [00:23:29] James: Who you have one in the middle and that is actually a specialized chip that is to synchronize the four chips around it. Now that would be something special. [00:23:38] Frank: Yeah. Kind of going there. It's funny because we went multi-core first. Then we went distributed computing, where we actually worked on our networking skills to get computers, to talk to each other. And it's almost like we're taking that distributed networking knowledge. And then just putting it back into the chip again, which is natural. Um, all things should be put back onto the. [00:23:59] James: Yeah. I like what they did next, which is after they decided to strap to, um, M ones together, they decided to strap to Mac minis together. Frank. [00:24:12] Frank: Okay. You got me? That was funny. Uh, yeah. Yeah. The chunky Mac, the Mac, not so many. The, you had a good one earlier, too. It's it's, it's something it's not a garbage can. [00:24:25] James: I would have called it the Mac mini. [00:24:28] Frank: Mac mini pro tech mini pro Mac mini. I dunno, there's coming back ultra. I don't know [00:24:36] James: why is it not the, Ooh, well, there's the Mac pro, right? So they're gonna, they're going eventually come out with another Mac pro. It's going to be ginormous, but now they have this third thing. And I know that they've created as a brand. They created a whole new brand because you know, the, the Mac mini already has. An entry point of about a thousand dollars, right. And this new one's called the max studio and it is double the price. The entry-level is double the price of the entry-level Mac mini and it looks like a Mac mini, like a Mac. No, it's it starts at 2000 and the Mac mini, well, the Mac mini starts at 700. You know, that's okay. So, okay, so it's triple the price it's actually hold on. I think it's, I [00:25:27] Frank: think it's more of these things are expensive. Well, we should say so they've created the Mac studio, which is a trunky Mac. They added a ton of ports to it though. I'm so happy. James apple has finally gotten back to adding ports to their competitors. Yeah, that's great. And you got me, it does start at one, uh, $2,000 and that is the max chip. So it's not the, it's not the chunky chip. Uh, if you want the chunky chip, you got to add another thousand dollars. No, [00:25:58] James: no. Another $2,000. It's double the chip. Frank. It is double the chip and here's what they did, Frank, by the way. They know you're breaking, [00:26:07] Frank: you're breaking my little Mac heart over here today. [00:26:10] James: They not only do they, like we're going to double the CPU cause it's two CPU's to double the price. And we're also going to double the Ram and double the storage is if you're going to pay. An extra two X, we're going to give you two X of multiple things. Thanks, apple. [00:26:27] Frank: We hear you like spending money. Here's other ways to spend money. [00:26:31] James: Um, now if you go all out on this puppy, [00:26:36] Frank: Oh, no. Okay. Are you going to give the max isn't this going to be like the $60,000 Macro-Pro? Is this even valid? Okay, fine. Fine. Give me the [00:26:44] James: max. Uh, so this is an ultra with the 20 core CPU 64 core GPU amazing hundred and 28. Now our member, because they put two, they put two of these together. You can now double the memory again. So you get 128 gigs of Ram and an eight terabyte SSD. Eight [00:27:05] Frank: grand for a maxed out Mac eight grants. Apple's done worse. Apples hurt us worse. Um, okay. But let's break that down 128 gigs of Ram. Yeah, you ain't gonna need it. Okay. You, you, you just ain't. I love to do neural networks where I love to give full frame images to the neural network. 32 at a time to process. If I'm doing video, I have to give it four frames, times 32, I'm giving it all that stuff and it easily fits within a 24 gigabyte GPU. There's no problem there. That said, I don't know if you don't have 128 gigabytes in your computer, what are you really doing with your life? I mean, you really [00:27:55] James: computing. Yeah. So this, this thing has this thing is this thing let's back it up. So it does look like two Mac minis. It's got ports in the front or it's in the back, including USB, a ports full HTMI. It's got a headphone Jack. Yeah. It's got ethernet, which I appreciate. Um, [00:28:15] Frank: I appreciate that they actually put the USB ports on there. I could really see apple not putting USBA ports on there. I'm glad they acknowledge that some of us are stuck in the past. Thank you, apple. And we need those. The back is kind of funny. It reminds me of a PC power supply because that's essentially what it is. It's a tiny little iPhone chip with a PC power supply wrapped around it and, uh, and cooling. When they break it down, half of this, all of its chunkiness comes from the giant fans, the giant blowers that they had to put inside of it to keep [00:28:47] James: it. Oh yeah. It is a very impressive machine in a little box. And I am absolutely terrified that, that it is pulling all of its air from the floor. Um, have you seen your floor or your desk? Frank? [00:29:04] Frank: I was really debating this cause like, does it most dust come from the ceiling? So like isn't it better to come up from the floor? I don't, [00:29:12] James: it settles on the floor. Fair fair. I thought of it. I like also, Ooh. Before we, they also made the power supply plug look like Mickey mouse. Good tie in to Disney, apple. Good tie in. [00:29:32] Frank: Well, what scared me there was, they actually needed the ground connection. I'm like, oh boy, how much power does this thing going to suck down and turns out a lot, a lot, not too much. I think most of their charts were showing. Maxed out, maxed out. So you're, you're encoding a video or something at like 200 or 300 Watts, which given today's video cards and the way PCs are architected is nothing. That's like table stakes for a PC. So it is actually being pretty efficient. They are benefiting from starting out with those mobile processes. [00:30:03] James: It says maximum continuous power draws, three 70. And you know, I talked about this earlier in our Patrion. We were talking pretty Frank about some of this stuff. And, uh, you know, I said, my, my power supply that I have in my computer is a thousand Watts because my power, my graphics card pools like 200 something. Yeah. My, my CPU pulls another a hundred something and we're already at the entire machine. Mean, [00:30:29] Frank: yeah. So let's talk about performance for a second because we really have to put this thing in its place. We were making fun of the $4,000 price tag. You are charged for this, and that's actually not even the price tag I want to talk about. I want to talk about the $5,000 price tag, because that gets you up to the 64 core GPU that you were talking about. The interesting thing about the $5,000 one is according to apple. So, you know, star star, star star, it has the performance of an RTX 30 90, which is basically the most powerful consumer video card you can get these days though. They, although they, technical MSRP is somewhere around $2,000, you're still spending $2,500 or $3,000 to get one of those. And it comes with 24 gigabytes of memory, which is a lot for a GPU, but because the M one is an integrated GPU and CPU, it have unified memory, which is a much more elegant architecture and therefore all of that memory can be used as. Memory also. So that is a huge deal. That's probably doesn't matter for video games. I don't know. I don't know what people are doing with their video games these days, but for computation tasks, that's huge. That that means the, the video card quotes around it. Video card can access all of your computers memory potentially up to 128 gigabytes. So I just want to put it in context, the yes, $5,000 is somewhat of a ridiculous price for a computer. But you are getting top of the line. You are getting state of the art at this point, and it's only copied competition is a $3,000 video card with a $1,200 computer wrapped around it. [00:32:21] James: And you can't even get the graphics card because all the miners are buying [00:32:23] Frank: them. Exactly. So you're still going to spend four grand to get a PC up to this level. And then the thousand dollars is basically the apple tax. [00:32:33] James: I was, I need to spec this out and, and actually cause. Um, eventually, maybe next year, maybe 20, 23, 20, 24. I'm in the, in the market to upgrade. Cause you know, I have a 6,700 K so there's a six series. Like we're on like the 15 series of or whatever now from Intel. And you know, I've been, I can't upgrade to windows 11 because it requires a seven series. Most likely an eight series as well. I think I can get around it, but I don't want to hack it. You know, [00:33:03] Frank: it's weird though. Like I think there's I fives or something. I don't know, whatever they it's weird that windows compatibility chart. I just got lucky with it. It just happened to fit on my. [00:33:13] James: So I have a, you know, I got a nice six and it's an older machine, but it's got 64 gigs of Ram. It's got an, a GTX nine 80 and it's great. Like, I have no issues at all with it a hundred percent. Maybe I'll hack a windows 11 on, don't tell my property. But, um, there's apparently an app that I was just reading on the verge or in gadget, it's like just download this app and be like, It'll just detect what you have and then it just, it just tells the bios or whatever, or the, or the red jet at what it is. And it's like, oh, you're [00:33:41] Frank: good. Yeah. As everyone windows doesn't require any of that stuff, the marketing team or whoever is requiring it, windows is fine. Windows could run on up IBM x86 from 1985. If you had, [00:33:53] James: you want the best performance. Right. So I understand at some point you need to stop doing stuff anyways. So I still been in the market though. I'm like, you know, maybe I will upgrade. To a new machine. I want to build something on. And if you build a top, you know, I've budgeted, I've built computers for $500, $200 for $2,000 and you can go all out and you can spend thousands of dollars on a machine. That's going to last you a long, long time, right? If you were. Max this puppy out and you get the upgraded, all the shenanigans, all the Ram, all the stuff, and you spend $6,000 or whatever on it, that could be worth it. You know, if it's, if you're looking for a machine that's going to last year. X amount of years and you're, you're gonna utilize it. I actually don't know if I would utilize it, to be honest with you. I might feel bad about it. So maybe I come in and I say, oh, you know what? Maybe I will get, uh, just the normal max, right? It starts at 2000 amp to 64 gigs of Ram, a terabyte SSD. Um, okay. I'm at $2,600. That's not bad. [00:35:01] Frank: No, no. Um, I'm honestly, even at the crazy price, I'm giving this computer a lot of pretty serious thought because I've been writing libraries to take advantage of metal tensors and metal. So all my software is already optimized to run, especially well on these kinds of chips. So I don't have to make any changes to my software. I do hit 32 gigabyte limits. It's embarrassing. I'm like, I should write better software, but you know, it's easier than writing good software buying hardware. It just, yeah. It's [00:35:35] James: so much easier. Oh, okay. Right. Okay. So here's the question. We've debated it a lot. Is the ready to go? Y you're 100% all in 100% of your day. Right? [00:35:50] Frank: So that's, that's exactly, that's the million dollar question here, right? Or the $5,000 question? Um, I think it is James. I, if you had asked me that a year ago, what was my common answer? I'm like, yeah. Yeah. Most things work, some things don't, but everything's getting better. And honestly, I think we have crossed. The the terrible part. I do plenty of Intel x86, compiling and dev on my air. I do it all that we, we do it as Xamarin developers because the ID hasn't been upgraded. So we're all doing it. It's fine. It works. I haven't had any issues with it. Actually, the biggest issues. It's like compatibility things, but as long as you're running a sandbox to app the world just doesn't look that different to a sandbox app, whether it's running on this architecture, that architecture, because it's mostly the API is holding you back and all that stuff. I kept reviewing in my head. What, what would keep me on the x86? I think I said in a previous episode, I would keep this iMac forever because I feel like it probably is beneficial to keep around an Intel computer for awhile, just for testing because we're devs and we have to make sure all that stuff works. But, uh, given the price of this new thing, I'm very much tempted to trade in my current iMac and keep around. I still have a 2013 MacBook pro and keep that 2013 MacBook pro round as my, um, Intel test device. [00:37:24] James: Yeah. Yeah. I still, I, I have my Mac book pro 2013 does Intel and I don't, I don't, I don't turn it on it more. I don't even do any testing. I think I'm, I'm just fine at this point, to be honest with you. I, I do feel like it's the Docker added support last year, right? And a bunch of other dev tools or, you know, things are there. I run vs and vs 20, 22. Side-by-side not seeing. Yeah, good. And, and they're, they're adding, you know, via swine is going to get better support. That's it it's all coming around. So, yeah. [00:37:58] Frank: And, uh, it was announced drive. Yes. 20, 22 is going to do and one support. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Uh, I think we have crossed that line where you can comfortably get an and say adios Intel, at least for now. [00:38:15] James: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. They announced it in January. Um, it's the first. To get native ARM-based often runs on dotnet six and natively on M one. Yeah. because.net runs on our M one two, so, boom. Yeah. [00:38:32] Frank: Uh, and I've only done a little bit with that, but yeah, I've totally put an arm 64 version on.net on that machine works. Great. It's dot net.net works great everywhere. So [00:38:42] James: that's what it does. All right. So. Um, we like our . We think I'm ones are in a good place. You have this brand new Mac studio, AKA Mac mini pro ultra deluxe edition. Uh, what are you gonna, uh, Display the thing on it needs a display, [00:39:02] Frank: Frank. Oh, this is the part where my heart was beating a little bit rapidly because they kept showing this beautiful little computer hooked up to their XDR displays. And they're like, you can drive for XDR this way on this computer. I'm like apple. I can't afford for our XDR displays. What the heck are you talking about? Thankfully, apple released what? I'm going to call a reasonably priced in scare quotes, monitor. Terribly expensive, uh, compared to like a bottom, a Walmart monitor, basically. [00:39:35] James: Bye to my, you know, 37 inch ultra-wide curved two K monitor. Yes. [00:39:42] Frank: Honestly, during the whole presentation for the Mac studio, I was thinking about just buying your monitor. I've always wanted one of those wide screen curvy ones and I might still, but then apple. For a wonder $1,600. They are releasing their 5k iMac without the iMac with an iPhone in it. Instead [00:40:02] James: they put my iPhone se into the, um, pro display se studio edition. So they should have called the display se and my personal opinion, but they decided to go with studio display. It is because it literally has an eight, 13 Jeff bed. It is my iPhone. Um, and it's, it's, it's really kind of crazy cause it's a 27 inch retina display and, and you know, it is five K. [00:40:29] Frank: Has it has like three Thunderbolt ports on it because it has a freaking iPhone stuck in it. So [00:40:36] James: many ports. And it has for the first time ever a ultra wide, while these, in this line and ultra wide video camera was center stage. And this was more impressive to me, which. I was like, Ooh, this is what, this is what got me was it has studio quality, three Michael Ray, and a six speaker sound system with spatial audio in the monitor. Oh my God. Because you know, all monitor speakers are garbage, but yeah, I believe that this might be just an absolutely delightful if you were in a, a dorm or you're living in a studio, a. This is your TV. You know what I mean? Like this is not only your monitor, but it's everything across the board is expensive, but it's real nice. [00:41:26] Frank: Yeah. I I'm excited. Uh, just some about the audio. I think iMac it's yeah, it's not speakers. It's obviously not as good as normal speakers, but my iMac makes good sound. I know this because I have an HTMI KVM switching thing and sometimes sound comes out of the wrong monitor and oh my gosh. Yeah. That's. I don't know, a mouse banging on a drum or something. I don't know what's inside of there. It it's, it's got ports. It's got that ultra wide monitor. I'm excited for that ultra wide monitor. Honestly, for my Twitch stream, I have to do this weird thing where I have to sit in a semi awkward position with my computer angled at a semi awkward angle in order to get the. Basically that I want. And although I'm not guaranteed and probably not that OBS would support, uh, the face tracking abilities of this camera, just giving me an ultra wide camera. That gives me more flexibility on where I can actually sit relative to the computer and still get a good image on the screen is a really big deal for me. And I've been using the same FaceTime camera for my Twitch stream. Everyone's been begging me to get a proper camera for my Twitch street, but I just been rocking the, uh, FaceTime camera. And so I'm excited to get this monitor, honestly, whether I get the Mac studio or not, I'm probably going to get this monitor. I'm almost slightly more excited for the monitor plus, um, I've been living in the iMac world for a while where the computer and the monitor are gluten. Yeah. And it's gotten, I think I'm a little bit over it at this point. I love my IMAX. I think they're super cute, super integrated, but I'm kind of begging for the more discreet world these days. I'm on my computer, separate [00:43:08] James: the, the combined display. I think the combined computer, I think it's really good for, um, like hospitality and families. Like this is the family computer in the center of the house. And in fact they're kind of. Pitch the iMac that way with the color line and things like that, the new, the new, uh, iMac 24 inch, they kind of pitched it that way, right in general is like, here's the family, it's in the middle it's blah, blah, blah. I think it's a great looking device and it's, it's very elegant, but I also believe that in the pro territory, having I'm a hunter, I'm a hundred percent believer. Like I love my, I love my laptops. I love my surface book. I love my Mac MacBook air. I love it. To me, a dedicated machine, especially I'm working from home a debt. If I have one machine that I can buy, um, I'm buying a dedicated machine and I'm just not going to go work from a coffee shop or remotely. Um, until I have to, I guess I'm not presenting at conferences anymore, but like I, that I need to have it. So it's like, I would rather invest in that if I'm using that 95% of the time and, and suffice with an older laptop in general, because it makes. Happier to have such a great machine and a great monitor where I have the space where nothing is hiccuping. I don't have to worry about it because we're doing complexity. We're streaming or compiling. We're running emulators, running simulators. We're doing crazy stuff. We have chat, we got all this stuff going on and I don't want any hiccups. Right. We have all these inputs that are going on. I just want it to be streamlined. Are you going to get the tilt and height adjustable fan for only an extra $400? [00:44:47] Frank: Oh gosh. Oh gosh. Um, no, I think I'm going to go full nerd. Get the visa amount, put it where you want it [00:44:53] James: now. Wrong now. [00:44:55] Frank: No, darn it. Tilt and [00:44:57] James: get away with it. I mean, I'll tell you what it looks cool. It looks cool. [00:45:02] Frank: I fell in love with max in middle school where he using some cute little Mac thing, but I totally fell out of it. I came back to loving max when they had the little hemisphere iMac with the cool whingy monitor on it. I kind of want that again. I just, it doesn't, I don't ever height adjust my monitors. I put them where they should be in there. I leave them alone. [00:45:23] James: Well, here's the. If you get it with the tilt and height adjustable, can you add a visa amount later on like detach it? You can [00:45:32] Frank: detach it. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of funny. I bought a VSAM out for this iMac and it's been in the box since the day I bought it. I'd even opened the box. It's just been sitting on a shelf. So, you know, everyone's habits are different. Everyone's setups are different. VESA mounts are good. Sometimes I don't even use them though. Um, do whatever it takes. Okay. I don't, it's like a thousand dollars more. It's just not worth it. 500. How much is it? Ooh, [00:45:57] James: Ooh, Ooh. Note, each stand or Mount adapter is built in. They are not interchangeable. So it's important to consider your workspace times of purchase. [00:46:07] Frank: Oh my God. Well, you know what they make. Uh, poxy holds everything. [00:46:15] James: Frank apox he's super glues. He gorilla Frank, Frank, Frank [00:46:22] Frank: alcohol first scuff it with a little sandpaper and a poxy poxy proxy will hold for a millennium. [00:46:27] James: Nope. Don't listen to this guy. All right. I need to go grocery shopping. So let's finish it with one more thing. As apple said, they are so close to finishing the M one transition, but they. The [00:46:40] Frank: dangle frame, just to confuse us, just to keep us on our toes. They dangled, they dangled the Mac pro pro I thought, I thought they were going to dangle the iMac pro right. Instead they discontinued the iMac pro as far as I can tell it, like, it's not, yeah, it's gone. It's gone. My computer's gone. It's now. Cool. Everyone, if you want to buy it, let me know. Um, uh, w uh, Bubba. I don't know what to think. I don't need a $60,000 computer. I can barely afford this $5,000. What in the world are they going to put in the Mac pro like how much more pro can you get than this? I don't know. I don't know. Do you need to get 56 gigs of Ram? How are we going to justify that? [00:47:28] James: By the way? If you max out the Mac pro it's $50,000. It's [00:47:34] Frank: yeah. That's why I was making fun of you for maxing out this one. Like yeah. Don't buy the maxed out one. Um, I think for me, um, if I did it, I probably would try to hold myself to roughly five grand. The problem is the last time I spent a lot of money on a computer. I regretted not getting the large. Because oddly enough, that just annoys you for the rest of eternity. So I might have to splurge on the hard drive and apple X, the charge for that stuff. Anyway, that's complaining. Yep. I liked that it was a simple event. Um, but this is definitely a huge stepping stone. Uh, I, I am flabbergasted that they released a computer according to apple, within the power spectrum of an RTX 30 90. That is noteworthy. And I'm glad we got to talk. [00:48:20] James: Yeah, me too. All right. We did it. [00:48:25] Frank: We did it. You'll be able to shop. You'll be able to eat. It'll be good for [00:48:28] James: you. Yeah. Thanks everyone for tuning in. Don't forget. We have our 300th episode upcoming and we would love your submission. Just even if you just want to write as a blurb, you want to send us a video. You want to do anything we're in a live stream, this puppy at the end of the month. So look for details there. You can go to merge conflict RFM. There's a contact button. You can also tweet at us. You can DM us and you do anything you want and you can write. Basically, let us know what's up. And, uh, we'd love to hear from you, you know, we've done 300 of these episodes that is six years of our lives, and you've been with us, uh, throughout that. We appreciate all of you. Um, and thanks for listening and we want to hear you. We want to play back. Those things live, um, The podcast while we're live streaming and give you a shout out for being awesome listener. So write in, let us know it could be anything about the Vegas favorite episode. Funny, fun thing. I dunno. Anything you just want to say? Hi, that's great too. We'll play it back. Ask you a question. Any questions to ask us anything we'll go from there. Uh, we appreciate it, but that is going to do. Weeks ultra podcast. So until next time I'm James and I'm Frank Krueger. [00:49:28] Frank: Thanks for listening. Peace.