MIX-3 === [00:00:00] James: All right, Frank. I may have made a huge, huge mistake, which is I already have iOS 17 installed and it just dropped 20 minutes ago. [00:00:09] Frank: Uh, as, as far as I know, they just added 3D stuff to it. So I think you're safe. You're gonna get the, the AI keyboard though, that's like the one, you know, usually, like, they give us, uh, emoji to get us to upgrade. I want the new keyboard because I, I don't like ducks. I, I like to write other words [00:00:28] James: from time to time. That's right. There's a lot of transformers in disguise inside of that keyboard. Um, you know, I think, uh, wwdc, so we, we teased a few days ago we're here. We just watched the keynote and the platform State of the Union. I watched all of 'em. Did you watch All of 'em, Frank, on your Apple [00:00:47] Frank: tv? I, I, I watched all of them. I, I watched them on my iPhone. Pathetic Way enough. I don't know. Usually I watch 'em on the tv, but this time it was all iPhone and, uh, I, I actually, I was a little bit late, but I caught the good part, so that was fine. Uh, I was a little bit worried, and I'm a little bit sad that all my predictions were basically wrong. Uh, my price test was wrong. There's no Marty, but no Marty wrong. So I, I get a little bit of happiness there. Uh, yeah. WWC has happened and there are new iPhones, new Max and new other things [00:01:24] James: to deal with. New operating systems. My apps work, I can, I can, uh, proudly support that. I've booted up both of my applications and they're working. Perfect. Amazing. Um, do, do you have a favorite? I, I already have a favorite. I have a favorite. I have a favorite thing that was announced. So let's just start with our favorite thing that was announced. What was your favorite thing that was announced? And it could be in either the keynote or the platform. Steve, [00:01:50] Frank: I'm, I'm gonna pick something I'm not gonna get. So that's a little bit sad. So I think that my favorite thing I'm not gonna buy, um, but that M two Ultra Mac Studio computer, it's making my iMac 2017 look a little bit old. It just, it. The, the computer aged in front of my eyes as I was watching this video because I'm like, I know how good my M one is. I have, you know, the first M one and it's great. Yeah. And so I can't imagine what a giant M two Ultra would be. So I, I, I'm reserving the obvious thing, the elephant in the room, the one more thing. But, uh, if we ignore that, [00:02:30] James: yeah. No, I, I think that it was really cool that they did announce, uh, you know, it's kind of interesting start to the keynote because they announced a new MacBook Air 15 inch. Okay. Um, they announced the Mac Studio with the M two Ultra Ultra. Um, and then the New Mac Pro, which only has the M two Ultra. Oh, that's cool. Uh, and mm-hmm. Expansion ports, P C I E things for the first time, it's probably gonna be bajillion dollars. Those seemed really, I mean, that really seemed focused on the pro market. They were talking about, you know, 24, 22 streams of eight K video, all this stuff. I was like, man, you know, cause I try to watch eight. You know, 20 streams and just like I'm bogging down. So there's that. I was joking and we had a whole, you know, teams chat going on with the, well don't, [00:03:17] Frank: we supported what, like eight 5K displays, like, I mean Yeah. Really Apple. Can you try harder need of all? And you know, I, it's funny, I, I've never been interested in the, I, I used to own one in old iac. That or an old Mac. Mac, that wasn't even the Intel processor. What was it before that? The Power pc? Mm-hmm. And that had the PCI ports and you know how many PCI cards I put into it? Zero. So I've just never kind of cared about the PCI ports on the Mac. I thought the crazy Mac Pro, the cylinder trashcan one was Yeah, a little bit wild and crazy. Um, but for some reason I just have no interest in the PCI card. Gimme that Mac Studio. [00:04:00] James: Yeah. I feel like, like we talked about Mac Studio. I want that in the Windows form, whatever that comes. This would be the machine that I would buy. You know, overall, I feel like it's right in the middle, so it's really nice If I was, you know, just wanted to get into the market. Well, that's my MacBook Air, that's my Mac Mini. Although I love the, my MacBook, you know what I mean? But I feel like the studio and then the pro, that kind of this ultra thing, here's my favorite one. Are you ready for it? Mm-hmm. Store kit updates. Um, Andre, such a nerd store kit, UI building blocks because Frank. Nobody wants to build UIs to manage, displaying and showing subscriptions and updates and free trials. How all these things, they have building blocks, they have a product card, they have a subscription view, and you just, it's two lines of code and you just get the UI for free and it does everything for you. It's. Beautiful. [00:04:54] Frank: My God. Why has it taken seven years, eight years to get this stupid ui? Does Apple think we wanna write UIs? We don't wanna write management UIs. No. You know, all I want is a baked in UI where I can put a text box and maybe change the font, maybe make it a rich. Text box or something, you know, that's good enough for me. Um, I, I do get it. They wanted to support video games, but moving on, all apps have to have this UI now, so I am more than happy to punt. I just wish it was introduced in iOS 11, not 50. Or 17. Jeepers. Ugh. That's gonna be an ugly if statement in my code base. [00:05:34] James: I know, I, I agree. I, I do think that is one thing that is always kind of a bummer compared to Android, which has like the backwards compatibility layers is. Uh, it's like, come on, I really wanna put this into all. Okay, so I, I guess I get to use this in three years type of situation. Um, so anyways, that, that was my, that was my pick of the day one, I should say in our full recap of, we're not gonna watch 270 videos, but we are gonna watch two. So there's that. They're, I mean, were they joking? [00:06:00] Frank: 170? I, I hope they're all like 10 minute videos. I hope they're all like YouTube videos. Yeah, [00:06:06] James: I think they are. I think they're shorter ones. I think there's some longer ones, some shorter ones. You can see them already on the developer dot, uh, account. Uh, we [00:06:13] Frank: haven't talked, I have to side detract us a little bit. We haven't talked about the production value. Um, it was a pretty good show. They, I, I, their transitions are getting more and more wild every year. And to the point where I think they're just hiring artists and they're like, come up with the craziest transition you can think of. And then they do it and it looks great. Uh, the worst one was obviously the giant guitar, but, uh, they were all fantastic. [00:06:40] James: Oh, Craig, no. And here's the funny part. Did you see some of the tweets come out from people that are actually at ww d c? They're, they're just watching it out on a big screen. That's it. Yeah, [00:06:49] Frank: I imagined, I imagined, uh, that and the state of the union and pretty much every video. Huh. So like in a way it's good because I think the engineers, they're still doing the labs and they're doing a few other things. I don't fully understand. I was looking around in the developer app, um, for things to sign up for. I don't think I'm gonna do a lab this year, but if it gives the engineers more time to do labs and things instead of presentations, who cares at this point? They're more pause. It's this way they can get transitions. [00:07:20] James: Yeah, I think it worked well because there, you know, I'm imagining the amount of people that are actually there in person is really minimal. It looked pretty small, so you're really only gonna go if you wanna. Do some of that stuff or hang out with your friends. [00:07:34] Frank: It's all for networking. It's all just a hangout. Yeah. Uh, but the, the writing was on the wall for that because the ticket was only for like three days or something. Right? Or, yeah. So, yeah, I don't even know the details, but, uh, uh, I'm, I'm here for the products. I, I realized, boy, it's a developer conference, but that was a big commercial for products too. [00:07:57] James: It was, I mean, I, I'm probably gonna get a new watch. I believe that'll be my new, um, fall thing whenever the new one comes out. It's good. It added the [00:08:07] Frank: best feature ever and I don't think my, my watch is gonna support it. But when, um, that fancy watch is tracking your location when you're hiking, it remembers where the last cell signal was. It's course that would be so useful. So many times in my life, I'm kind of angry that like, I wonder if there's apps out there that do this, but, oh, it's tricky on the watch because it's all a power drain and all that, so, yeah. Oh, I don't wanna put down the big box, but that, that awesome watch is looking [00:08:34] James: good. And the, I officially got sherlocked for the very first time as, um, so people dunno what Sherlocking is. That's basically when you have an app or you know, Basically your entire app or of core features of your app get built into the operating system. And I have an app called My Cadence, which I'm very proud of, I built During the Emmi, uh, which is an app that connects to Bluetooth sensors on stationary, uh, bikes to give you your cadence. Um, that, and then that's half of it. And then often a lot of other apps will do heart rate monitoring and do zones. So that was some feature I was thinking about adding, which I'm not going to anymore because Apple now, if you have an Apple watch, it'll just connect to those sensors and it will use the new widget kit, whatever magic. Live activities to show you all that information on your screen. So it's maybe even better than my app because it does the overlay on top of apps in real time compared to side by side of an app. But I, I am proud, I am pleased. This has never happened to me before, Frank. And we have friends that has happened to, um, before, uh, and podcasters that we listen to. And I, it's a proud moment. I, that kind of means like it was a big gap that my app filled. There are plenty of people without an Apple watch. That will still probably want the app or, you know, don't even know what it's a feature of the Apple Watch. So I'm, I'm excited to see how it works and, and if there's things that I can steal and put back into the app and usually that, that's what it drives to, uh, in general. But I was just about to add home kit functionality into the app, funnily enough, so it's kind of like, all right, I guess I'm good. You know what I mean? So, we'll see. We'll see how it goes. But I'm proud. I'm pleased it happened. And, and I think the watch is just, uh, the, the new UI looks good. These activities look good. Uh, and I have a watch. Three. So I think it's time to. Upgrade it. [00:10:17] Frank: Well, it's a terrible thing to be proud of, but it is kind of a big moment, as you said. At least there's a big enough marketplace. They decided to be there, but there's a lot of big marketplaces they don't get into. But this is just them still looking for a good use of the watch beyond being a watch. [00:10:33] James: Agreed. I, I totally agree. And because I'm a cyclist already, I was like, this is great. One less thing, one less worry. You know, and sometimes I don't even use my own watch or my own app because I'm like, I yet another thing to open up and to do blah, blah, blah. Right. I'm just wanna cycle and this'll be good for the winter. Yeah. So I'm excited for it to come out. You know, I do [00:10:51] Frank: wonder, as, as you know, uh, you have to have like, specialized data by databases for each like device. Cuz in the end they're, none of 'em are compatible. So I I, I wonder if they're gonna expose any of that. To the app layer and you could at least hook into that. But yeah, that might be asking for a little bit much to be honest. So, uh, I, I have to admit that I, I I, I started getting a little, uh, tired during that section and wasn't quite paying attention cause it's watch fitness section, I tend to zone out during it. Um, did they really like copy, copy your app? [00:11:26] James: Oh yeah, yeah, pretty much. Yeah. It's, it, it's my app plus the heart rate zones, basically. Yeah. So it's, it's literally like here. Is the cadence connecting to Bluetooth sensors or stationary bike devices? Does it have a giant [00:11:36] Frank: number in the middle of [00:11:37] James: the screen? So here's the best part of it, is it puts a giant number anywhere on top of your iPad screen that you want. Yeah, it's even better. It's really [00:11:45] Frank: good. Okay. Okay. Just checking. Well, uh, sorry. Congratulations. All the emotions. [00:11:51] James: I'm excited to give it a go. I don't know if my watch can get the, uh, the previews, but I, I'll try to give it a go. I remember, I just need to get a new watch, but I'm gonna wait till the fall. Because I want that new watch. I do want the fall detection, a bunch of other stuff. It's good. Um, that's really much it on the watch. I mean, there's a bunch of stuff, maps, updated hiking features, like you said, there's a new mental health and vision health stuff, which I wanna talk about a little bit when we get to, we're rolling my eyes, rolling my [00:12:14] Frank: eyes [00:12:15] James: a bit. Uh, you wanna talk about iOS really quick? [00:12:18] Frank: Oh, sure. Except I, I don't really recall anything changing in iOS and it's kind of wonderful that way. I already mentioned my favorite feature, the keyboard improvements. [00:12:27] James: Okay. Um, okay, so keyboard big overhaul with a bunch of Yeah. AI built into it. We got, uh, airdrop, a k a name drop now coming in. That's cool. [00:12:38] Frank: Yeah. Uh, bump, remember the bump app? Talk about being sherlocked. This is like sherlocking after like 15 years or something. Yeah. I, I'm, I'm glad the bump app is back. Um, and if it does simplify airdrop, I'm all for it. Have you been in this situation where you're like, my air drops on, my air drops on. Well, you can I send a thing? Yeah. [00:12:56] James: Which, what you never want to do is like hand someone your, your phone. Right. Anymore and that's what this kind of gets rid of for the contact sharing and the bumping and, yeah. I mean, Actually, airdrop always works kind of good for me, but I'm only ever sharing with like Heather and that's it. Photos, yeah. But I do like the continuity stuff that they put in, which is like, you can start sharing and then magically you could leave and it'll just work and like, yeah. And then it's like, oh, you can, you know, start a FaceTime call on your Apple TV and then you can just like use your phone and the camera just works. And you're like, that's cool. And you're just like, whoa, this is, you know, just kinda wild scenarios. [00:13:32] Frank: I was a little disappointed. They have, um, activities sharing through the share kit, which is like a, a kit designed for media, like videos and audio. Makes sense. I have a podcast player. I could integrate it. Yeah, it's a little bit sad. Like otherwise, the whole UI kit thing has been overhauled with activities, user activities, ui, user activities, and that's how you kind of state the intentions of what your app is doing, how you do. Um, handoff and things like that. So it's a little bit weird that it's still a little bit media focused, but I guess they had to draw the line somewhere with the bumping. Otherwise people would just be bumping everything. I don't know. I don't know why they don't have activity sharing, but maybe they do. [00:14:15] James: Well, I kind of feel like. That would be ideal. Like, I was thinking about like, oh, what if you had an app that basically, you know, wanted to share the, like podcasts, right? Like there is a nearby API that, that, um, Google has had forever. So a lot of that stuff is built in to Android devices. Like on PocketCasts, for example. If you have PocketCasts and I have pocket cast, we put 'em next to each other and it's like, here's all my podcasts. Here's all your podcasts, like, You should be able to more easily connect up in that way. So I'll be fascinated to see how that kind of evolves over time. If they [00:14:48] Frank: kinda go, just don't have enough friends. But, uh, maybe for fun, I'd try implementing the share kit. [00:14:56] James: I don't know. Yeah. Weird. What other things? The free bump, phone, new contact posters, live transcriptions and voicemails. Leave a message and FaceTime. Cool. Call to [00:15:07] Frank: action. Yep. I, I think. I, I hate emojis and things like that, but I do hope all my friends actually do create those poster things, even if they're dumb and simple. I just wanna know if a phone call is spam or not. That that's all my life is. It's a binary decision, and so, We'll call to action. If you have my phone number, please use this feature. Even if it's just a red screen, you know, it's better than the normal [00:15:33] James: screen. I bet. What they'll do is when you install iOS 17, which they didn't do currently, I bet they'll do like some sort of setup process when you get a new phone that's like, and set up your profile and then take a photo of yourself as Lisa a default. Mm-hmm. I, I like that idea. I think that's a lot better, uh, in general. Actually, you know what feature I really like is this check-in feature because I'm always asking people like, oh, lemme know when you get home or when you get to the grocery store or when you get whatever. Right now it's just like built in. I dunno. I mean, these are just features. These are nice. There's a, um, Oh, oh. I mean, I'm thinking iOS, an iPad os like there's suggestion APIs, so you could like be a suggestion. [00:16:11] Frank: Yeah, I'm, I'm slightly worried about Kka. I, I gotta see how, uh, UI text view changes because I don't know if it, they didn't say, uh, in the keynote, obviously a, not in the state of the Union whether the text box improvements are opt-in or opt out. So I'm curious to see if suggestions are on by default or not, because. I betcha, I betcha most apps, 99% apps are gonna be fine, but Cal's gonna hurt. So I gotta find out what the effects are of that thing. [00:16:41] James: I think besides that, you know, the biggest thing that I really saw in the iOS iPad OS thing is probably the widgets. I'm actually kind of excited for widget kit updates. I'm not a widget developer, however, that being said, As a user, I really like that one. They're expanding outside of the Mac. They're interactive now, which is kind of mind boggling via this whole crazy system that they have set up. It's really mind boggling. They went through it, how the interactions work with intense, it feels very Android, which is wild. And my favorite part is the continuity, which is if you have apps on your iPhone and they have widgets, and let's say that app doesn't even have a MAC application, you, those widgets on your iPhone will just show up on your Mac and then you can pin them to your dashboard and then you can interact with them. They're not even on your Mac, they're on your iPhone. And that's, I like, when I saw that, I was like, this is mind bo. Like my mind is, I don't even know what, what magic they're doing here, but it is mindboggling. I do understand now that they described in like, uh, a flow diagram, but I was like, this is ridiculous and kind of wild. Okay. [00:17:46] Frank: I missed the flow diagram. Tell me, James, is this kind of the same trick they use for the Apple watch, uh, widget system where they're. Updated sporadically. Your code only gets executed from time to time, uploads the timeline. Is that kind of system or [00:18:00] James: something new? Yes, there are. Yeah. It says that it's the, there's, there's a widget code extension. The, there's running widget code, which calls extension code, which, um, which gets snapshotted. And then the, the UI updates, the transitions in the ui. Happen automatically with the animation system. But then, um, those snapshots that are sent in between basically is what is, um, being sent over to like the macros device or to the widget for the interactive. So you, you're interacting with a. With the UI code, but it's calling via intent. So it's ending up, happening on the Mac is you're calling an intent, kind of like handoff almost via this intent system app intent system, um, which is gonna go do something. And those app intents are specifically a new api. Which will automatically show up in shortcuts. So for example, if you had a, you know, Tesla, everything that you could do on your widget, you might have an intent for. Um, and, uh, then those would show up inside of like the shortcuts app, for example. So like start car, you know. Do it. I guess that's, I don't know what else you do in a Tesla star cars, stop car, things like that. Uh, so, but it's, it's this diagram basically where you're running this extension code, which gets snapshot and then the intent goes, and then it's kind of this circle and the snapshot is what's being sent back and forth across the wire. You know, [00:19:26] Frank: I've written one widget app, unreleased, cuz I, I could never fully decide if I liked it or not. Um, and it was, it was interesting because I ended up writing it in Swift because widgets are just easier there using the kit. So it's funny, a lot of the features you're mentioning, they, they kind of did exist and they've been promoted promoting this intent based thing. So I guess, uh, this year is like that magic trick that they're pulling of, uh, bringing it over to the Mac. But it's funny because. Just how their templates work and everything in that app. I, I click the run on Mac checkbox and also ran it on the Mac and the widgets show up on the Mac also. So it's a weird, weird magic game they really have to play. If what, if you have the Mac version of the app also running, do you get to book it? Widgets? I wonder how they handle all those. Crazy scenarios that get into in this multi-device world. [00:20:21] James: Yeah. I'm pretty intrigued in that as well. I do think it's cool. Magic trick. Yeah. Cool. Magic trick. That's that's great. And that is a [00:20:29] Frank: new model. I, I haven't seen a model that explicit where they say they're actually kinda screenshotting, screenshotting and then doing a diff Yeah. Interesting. [00:20:39] James: Um, besides that, yeah, makos gets a new game mode. That's cool. Sonoma, not Napa. I, I knew I called, I called Sonoma Heather called Napa and I was right. [00:20:51] Frank: So, oh, cool. Uh, I have no guess. I don't know anything about California, so that's [00:20:56] James: perfect. Well, we only know because we're, you know, we like whining. We like Willamette Valley here, uh, in Oregon and I've been to Napa, but then my, uh, we have friends that are like, oh, you should go to Sonoma cuz it's like way. You know, more reasonably priced and like, you know, some better wines there as well because just Napa land is so expensive. So that's why the wines are often much more expensive, which is why by the way, if you get wines from like Spain or Italy or France, because the land has been like generational, it's cheaper. It's, it's cheaper to cheap, you know, get wine that is less expensive, right? So just cuz it's cheap wine from Spain doesn't mean it's cheap wine just means that like, The cost of the land is a lot cheaper compared to like Napa. Anyways, fun fact about wine, California, let's California. Um, [00:21:43] Frank: I do wanna, I do wanna say I, I am tempted to put ice circuit into game mode. I am curious to see if there's any performance change. [00:21:51] James: I like that. I want, I'm not sure exactly how it works, if like the user does it or if you, I guess you could do an intent for it. Uh, [00:21:57] Frank: uh yes, to be determined. I will report back once I get this thing downloaded and start reading the [00:22:03] James: diffs. I think it's really genius because it not only, you know, does a lot of stuff where it puts things in the background, but it also will increase the Bluetooth sampling rate. So if you're listening to audio or, or, or game controllers mm-hmm. Or things like that. Mm-hmm. It's also gonna improve that entire overall system, so very smart. Um, and you know, there is like in Windows, I think there's a game mode so that maybe that exists already. I'd have to like check that out specifically and see if what's in there. But yeah. Hey, they had a big focus on, on Mac and gaming so. That was a big thing. They had a game porting toolkit. They had unity on stage, talking about the vision stuff and all sorts of game stuff. So game game games and games, games, [00:22:42] Frank: games. Also port your game to the elephant in the room that we re refuse to mention. So that's pa I think part of it is get your games poured over to metal so we can render them on our [00:22:53] James: magic device. Okay. So let's go through the checklist before we get to this puppy. So we got air, uh, air, air Max done. Promax done. iOS 17. Done. Um, [00:23:04] Frank: they didn't change. Had a how many, how many Tick talk tick Years. Whichever one is the slow year. We're, we're getting a lot of slow years in iOS. I don't mind it. Yeah. But [00:23:13] James: getting slow years. Let's see. Share, play TV os like you can find your remote now. Uh, cycling. That killed my app. Um, I'll see here. Uh, okay. I'm, I'm gonna go now to, to the state of the platform. Oh, um, okay. I only have one question. Everything else seemed pretty straightforward to me. Now we're in, like, before we talked about final hardware, final thoughts, and we get to, because that was, it was each one third of the keynote and the state of the platforms was vision stuff. The one thing I really wanna talk about is there's new Swift stuff, right? So New Swift UI components, rad, new Swift c plus plus, interop Rad, new Swift Data. Rad, cool. New widget, cat. Cool tip kit. That's actually kind of cool. Well, here's what I, I need you to explain this to me cuz it was the very first thing they showed, which is swift. Macros, and I don't quite understand them. Um, they, they're annotations, but they do stuff and check stuff. Can you explain to me? Yeah, because I feel like I needed to know, and I, I kind of was being distracted by an email at the time when she explained it to [00:24:17] Frank: us. Um, I, I, I, I can explain it, but I have to stay at a high level because I don't know their implementation details. Hmm. But I, I just, from what they said, I can make a lot of guesses. Good educated guesses, I'm sure. Anyway, uh, so. We have C sharp code generators, right? Yes. And they, they, we, we did it the hard way for a long time with crazy targets and all that stuff. And then they built it into the compiler so you could write 'em more easily. Co-generation, it's a thing. It's code that manipulates code. That's the meta part. So that's the, um, Uh, that's the, you're stepping outside the box, you're using the language to mm-hmm. Manipulate the language itself kind of stuff. And what can you do with that? Well, you can do fancy things like we do in.net, like pre-com, compile your Jason so that it gets whatever, serialized very quickly and all that kind of stuff. Um, you can do more, um, what do they call it, aspect oriented programming where you have your security layer kind of. As just attributes, but those attributes signal that there's a whole code generation step and a bunch of security stuff gets added to those objects. It's good for object relational mapping. SQL light dash net could totally use it. I don't use it. I do everything with reflection. Uh, but it could use code generation, uh, macros in this case. So, uh, that's what they did. They just took, um, this concept that's been around forever. C has supported it forever. Lisp supported it forever. Uh, they did a scheme, gotta mention scheme. They made it safe. Uh, they tried to, they implemented a safe ish version of it. Of course, you can always shoot yourself in the foot with it and with it, they started doing some fancy things. And the fancy things are interesting. But overall, like the technology is both ancient but also incredibly powerful. So, so it's nice to have [00:26:14] James: nice ad basically. Okay, that, that makes a lot of sense. If I was to compare macros to cogen, I like the name macros in a way, because to me, macros inside a visual studio are like, here's a bunch of these default templated macro things. And I would say like if, and it's like here's a bunch of stuff, right? And you're like, okay, cool. So things like that I think are, are nice. So that makes sense. Okay, cool. So we saw a lot of that. Throughout a bunch of code basically. Yeah. With at signs and pound signs and things like that. [00:26:42] Frank: SWIFT data. You texted me. You were excited about SWIFT data. Yeah, because I mean, they're basically doing what I do with reflection with SQL Light, but they're doing it in the cloud. I do need to make a cloud version of SQL Light dash [00:26:55] James: net. What I liked about SWIFT data is it seemed like they integrated, it says on top of core data, and they integrated it directly. Into like Swift UI annotation. So you could say, here's a list of things and map to this, and then it'll update automatically, and things like that made things observable by default, and it was kind of cute. [00:27:15] Frank: Yeah, they, I, the core data's pretty nice on Swift ui. It's nice to see them integrating data with UI stuff. Um, they, they already had something like Fetch Query, which was like a refreshable query, which was always nice to use also. So good to see Apple, who's known for UIs, making sure that UIs are somewhat easy to program. [00:27:36] James: And the UIs here were looking pretty nice, I gotta say. Um, in general, just I thought. Things are looking nice, things are looking less fragmented across the board, that's for sure with the watch updates and sort of more stuff coming to Mac and things like that. Um, I'm looking at my notes here. I mean, there's some new privacy stuff talked about store kit. My favorite feature, I think my other big feature is Xcode, is now 50% smaller and simulators are all on demand, [00:28:08] Frank: probably good. I never know which ones to install. I, I like the random, like every time you reinstall excode, you get a new set of simulators. I'm like, oh, I guess I'm working on an iPad here. This, this week. I, I do that, enjoy that roulette there. Um, 50% smaller, so now it's only 16 gig, whatever. Yeah. I download it once a year now, like I just don't care. [00:28:33] James: Uh, you can use X codes, which automates it and makes it faster to download and extract and things like that. But yeah. Um, anything else before we get to, uh, the ski goggles? [00:28:44] Frank: Let's go skiing, James, because I, I think that's all they focus. Can I just reiterate? Yay. They added keyboard improvements. That's not a large language model, Oracle thing that all the big companies are doing that Microsoft announced. Google announced. Keep up Apple. That's all I'm saying. [00:29:04] James: Apple did a good job of talking about AI without saying the words ai. Interesting. [00:29:11] Frank: That's a interesting, did they say machine learning? [00:29:15] James: Uh, not really. They did say transformers, they said, which is a machine learning model, a thing, a thing type of bash machine learning. But they stayed away from ai, uh, almost 100%. Now they actually had some creepy demos when it came to the goggles, but beyond that, yeah, everything else that they talked about as far as their improvements in a lot of this technology, they. Danced around the concept that this was using AI and machine learning, and they talked about more of Yeah, what you're getting out of it instead of the core technology underneath. Uh, you know, and I think one of the examples is the FaceTime feature where they're like extracting, you know, you out of it to kind of put you on top of a presentation or whatever. Uh, and Mac look. Okay, cool. Yeah, sure. Why not? You know, no green screen required. Okay. Not, not a. [00:30:03] Frank: It's good. I'm just gonna interrupt you because it, now that you say it, you're right. They did mention a lot of underlying AI technologies. They just don't want to be in the Oracle game yet. [00:30:15] James: Yes. Yeah. Like, you know, transcription of audio live, transcription of the voicemail, like these are all using, they did a bunch of, uh, audio, you know, things. So, I mean, they had all sorts of little, but they've been doing that forever. Right. So it's just mm-hmm. It's, it's better now. Right. So I think that they did that and I. You know, I, I think things are going, uh, good. Uh, for the keynote, it's fun to watch the stock price side by side of both, you know, I watched all of them like Meta and Google and Apple, just seeing what's happening. It's a fun, it's a fun game. Uh, just Wall Street [00:30:45] Frank: is not indicative of anything. [00:30:47] James: It's all fun. They just start close the day at what they opened the day. Um, okay, let's just get to it. Uh, but you know, we dance around for 30 minutes. Let's go scuba diving, skiing. [00:30:59] Frank: You know, I did so much, uh, snorkeling. It's my little snorkel mask last year, trying to find that drone underwater. So it's given me, it's got creepy eyes. They put it in the creepy eyes. Are they creepy? James, did the eyes look creepy to [00:31:13] James: you? Well, they're real eyes. They're your real eyeballs, Frank. But they're [00:31:17] Frank: projected, they're not really your eyeballs. Oh, are they really uhhuh, as far as I understand, those are synthetic eyeballs because, uh, the distortion is just a little bit wrong and they can't make it a clear screen, so they just illuminate parts of it. That was my understanding. I'm willing to be corrected, but I believe they're projecting those eyeballs onto that thing. Okay. Because they very clear to say, gives the appearance of glass. [00:31:45] James: Oh, you know what? I think that makes sense. I'm looking at the Tim Cook ad. They're like, this is an ad. Just letting you know it's an ad. Mm-hmm. Um, I'm looking at it. Yeah, I guess so. Um, you were talking Apple Vision Pro. Yeah. Um, let me just state before we get started, we both can state, I do not own any headset, any goggles. I don't own any. I'm not a big fan. Not a big fan? No, not general. No. I don't want anything about [00:32:13] Frank: You've in the past you've had some [00:32:16] James: No. Uh, Google. Google Cardboard. Okay. Keeping it, keeping it real. No. Nothing else. Never had anything else. I've tried them on. It's fine. I just don't want them, I don't have the space for them. I don't need them. I've worn like a hollow lens. Very cool. Mixed reality ar new ar vr. Little little bit of this, little bit of that. Yeah, you're right. I'm looking at it. It's definitely projected. That's weird. Um, But you are a little bit different, right? You have a device or two. [00:32:42] Frank: Yeah, I've actually got more than I'd like to admit When I was moving, I'm like, oh, I found another pair of VR goggles. Um, I don't know. It's the 12 year old in me. I've always just wanted VR goggles and they've, you know, they've, I've seen 'em improve over time. I had, not the original Oculus, but one off, but still the dev version. It was kind of, Cookie and definitely gave me motion sickness, but I had a lot of fun. I used Unity, built a lot of little virtual environments. It was fun. I, I had no idea if the technology was ever gonna be useful or if I could use it for more than 4 45 minutes without getting sick. So that, that's kind of where it stayed. And I kept buying more and more. But they all roughly stayed. The screens improved. They got lighter. My favorite is like the Oculus Go. I think it was just a nice light little headset, worked really well. Um, if, if, if the Apple device is the five years newer version of the Oculus Go, I'd be pretty happy. The problem is it's also seven times the price of the Oculus go, so it better be seven times better. [00:33:51] James: Yeah, I, [00:33:53] Frank: okay. Wait. I did forget to mention, I have to say, uh, all that said, uh, my current set has been sitting in a drawer for the last, at least six to nine months. Um, I just don't think I have too many things to use it for. I'm, I'm willing to try things, but, uh, they gotta make the experiences better than what I've witnessed already. [00:34:15] James: Yeah. It's fascinating because it is more of an AR experience and a VR experience, but you can go full VR into your own dedicated space that can surround you. Yeah, it's fine. You know, [00:34:25] Frank: the best part of all the oculuses was always their me menu modes. When they, uh, actually they just, in the newest ones, they actually started bringing in the real world, started doing the AR thing. Oh. And that was genius because we would all do this little hack. You could establish a safe area. You're supposed to stay in the safe area. If you wandered out of the safe area, it would render the outside world. And you're like, oh, well this is great. Now it's an AR device. Yeah. But it would only happen if you left the safe area and we found like funny little hacks like that. Mm-hmm. Uh, it's, it's just good to see that like they're recognizing that's actually a great default mode. That's a good place to start. Yeah. [00:35:01] James: It seems like that's where they're going after, you know, kind of that this, you know, you're in the real world first and you, you are the one that gets to go into the fully virtual world if you want at that point. Um. So it's a device you put on your head. Everything's built into it. It's cordless except for you do it, have to have a battery pack. It's, it's got a, if you plug it into the wall, Frank, it has all day battery. If, because you're, it's in the wall if you, if you use the battery pack, you have to have one or the other. Then it's a two hour battery. So you do have a cord due to a battery pack. So it's. Extra weight down there. And they did a great job of hiding that and making it confusing. Yeah. You know, I think it's a beautiful design. It looks very nice. It's got a digital crown on it, so everyone loves a little, little dial. It's like your watch. It is very inspirational from, you know, the, the headphones to the watch to, it was a, it's a beautifully designed device, uh, in general and. Yeah, they showed a little bit of everything, didn't they? They showed a little bit of, um, uh, personal use, a little bit of gaming, a little bit of watching tv, little FaceTime, little businesses, little uh, manufacturing thing. [00:36:09] Frank: Well, a little bit of everything if I can. I, I, I think they did something to really differentiate themselves. They really focused on two dimensional. Interfaces that exist in the 3D world. Yeah. Whereas most of the other devices are, we're gonna bring you into our immersive 3D world. And that, that other place that's transitional, we don't want you to hang out there very much, but, um, apple wants to leverage their app store because I don't know if we mentioned, but our apps are gonna be running in this virtual world. Who knows what they're gonna look like. I'm really excited to see what Ice Circuit looks like in the virtual world. I'm afraid of how much money I'm gonna have to put down to find out, but that's gonna happen. Um, because it's, I don't, it didn't sound like it's an opt-in thing. It sounded like maybe they'll be opt out, but it sounds like our apps are just gonna be running there. But anyway, that's, that's cool. It's, it's embracing that 2D world, and that's not even getting into, like if you write an, an. An app native to that platform. We can talk about that later. Yeah. But, um, just their focus on let's make the 2D experience nice. I am curious if they'll allow you to do things like sticky posters, like per room. So as you walk through your house, like each room has a set of different things on it. I'm curious to see what their UI is actually like outside of demo mode. There's a lot of good details to get right there. [00:37:30] James: Yeah, I'm interested. We call those anchors, right? Spatial anchors? Mm-hmm. Like I'm anchoring things there or is it just anchor to where you're at currently? I'll be super interested to see how it works. Again, you gotta put it on your face and what kind of mode it is, cuz those are different experiences, that's for sure. Yeah. You know, I, I think overall I have zero need for this device, nor do I want this device, nor do I think that it'll be mass adopted just because it's too, it's very expensive. It's a pro. They come out with a pro or the heavy hitter first. You know, it's already a niche product in the regards of. I don't see, you know, my grandparents putting it on. There's not a kids' version from what I see. Um, you know, there's, there's a, there's that aspect of it already, and obviously it's $3,500, so it's quite expensive, you know, and that's fine if you're, you can afford it and you want to give it a go. Um, and it's, it looks very nice, you know. That being said, I do think it's one of the, like you're saying, I think it's one of the. Better looking experiences from what I can tell, because the app launcher looks nice, the continuity from, I have a Mac and I'm putting the screens up, so they showed Xcode on one side and they showed your app running on the other side. You know, having your virtual space and, and going and doing that or watching and, and doing stuff or doing a FaceTime call and having your weird, creepy. Self portrait of yourself. That's animating avatar that they've scanned your face on Ghost James. Yes, we're [00:38:48] Frank: we're, we're gonna talk to each other as ghosts from now on, but [00:38:51] James: it looks good. It looks like a nice device that I don't want. But that's okay. I didn't want to begin with before I even saw it, so [00:39:00] Frank: I want to address your wants, but first I wanna critique the device. I was a little bit sad to see it is just a VR device with lenses in it, because they really skipped over the hardest part of all these devices getting the lenses right. They're like, we used three lenses to make our lens. I'm like, Well, yeah, that's kind of the minimum you need for that kind of thing. And so it's, and then they really skirt the issue of a fit. This device isn't coming out for a long time. They're like, come to the store and get fitted for it. I'm like, oh boy. Oh boy. Oh, Redfin [00:39:32] James: flag. [00:39:33] Frank: So it doesn't sound like all these devices always have like a janky little dial on them where you could actually physically move the lenses. To help your eyes, so I wonder if they're gonna have options like, there, there's a few question marks because I, I was wondering like, was it gonna be, um, uh, the Microsoft device? Sorry, I'm totally blanking. HoloLens, yeah. Was it gonna be that where they're projecting onto a piece of glass where it really would be ski goggles, but No, it, it's a VR device with lenses. Like, okay. All the traditional VR lenses [00:40:06] James: have been. That to me, they played mad trickery on me because if that is the case, I didn't realize that. I thought you were actually looking through it and the things were being projected over the physical world, but that's not the case. [00:40:20] Frank: No, I don't believe so. Uh, I hate to use a qualifier like that everyone, but I'm, uh, so on the front of the device are an array of cameras. Uh, there's lidar, there's multiple, uh, color cameras, multiple depth cameras, uh, UV projector. And so what I believe they're doing is it's a VR goggle and they're recording the outside world and then piping it back into your eyeballs. [00:40:49] James: Whoa. Mind blown. [00:40:53] Frank: That's why there's lenses if you look at it. If there's lenses, that's what they're doing. No way. Get on. I mean, [00:41:00] James: I guess that makes sense. I mean, it has the light seal, it has all that stuff. I mean, it makes sense now that you say it, but how they displayed it and how they showed [00:41:08] Frank: it was so good. Oh, that light seal. That light seal. You know what you learn when you, you're snorkeling to find your drone at the bottom of a canal. You learn that snorkel mats are not mustache compatible. So that light seal's not gonna be good on your face, buddy. [00:41:22] James: You know what's interesting now that you say it is, they did have this part where they're like, on the outside they'll display something to show people that like you can't see anything and then they'll project your eyes. But I'm looking at the photo and you're totally right, they are projecting the eyes and it's not actually Oh, that's interesting. [00:41:38] Frank: Well, it is. Okay. So what they say they're doing is kind of interesting. They say they're doing retina tracking. Which, um, it sounds easy. You would think it'd be easy, you'd just stick a camera at the eye and measure where it is. But our eye is thicker a lot, so it's actually a tricky algorithm. And there's a weird feedback loop that happens, like if your eye detects, if something's tracking your eye, your eye tracks the tracker and then you get yourself into like funny little loops. Uh, so I'm really curious to see how good they're. Retina tracking thing is, I guess what I'm saying, James, is I'm gonna buy this stupid thing like so begrudgingly, but like in for a penny in for a pound, I really don't need it and I really don't think I'm gonna make much money off of it. I'm gonna make an Asteroids game and I'm gonna pour ice circuit cuz that's all I got. But I dunno what a weird device. [00:42:29] James: Uh, yeah, I'm, I'm interested that it did a great job of displaying this. You know, how it comes down to is, you know, the Swift UI reality kit and, uh, scene kit all coming together. I think that's what they were saying is, Hey, like, Hey, you've been building apps with this for a while. Oh, AR kit, UI kit, reality kit, AR kit, pulls it all together. That's how you build these apps. It's slightly [00:42:51] Frank: confusing because, um, reality kit and AR kit are. UI Kit Kits, they run on UI kits so you can program them from UI kit. Uh, what they did though was Jam 'em was, um, remake, uh, swift UI to run in Reality Kit, which is super cool because they can mix 2D and 3D UIs. Super neat trick. Yeah. Microsoft Sedan, windows Vista also. But it's super [00:43:15] James: cool trick. Yeah, I like it. Um, yeah, that's, [00:43:20] Frank: that was neat. But I do wonder if I can just port my ar c app over to it. That's where I was going with [00:43:24] James: that one. I would imagine they talked a lot about shared spaces, volumes, dedicated spaces, windows, like kind of through these different mechanisms. A lot of the different depth analysis. I think we just gotta get our hands on it. There is gonna be a simulator though, which is kind of cool. So you can just run your app in the Xcode simulator, so that's kind of exciting. [00:43:42] Frank: Yeah, I, I'm happy to see they, they were working on that and I was wondering, like, they had great visualizations for how to show what an AR app looks like. They, I don't think they've done quite these visualizations before, um, where they're showing the virtual screen or what you're gonna perceive within the goggles. Uh, actually out from a third person point of view, it was, it was a good way to render it. And I'm curious if that's how the simulator is gonna be also, Looked [00:44:09] James: like it looked like it. They did a great job of demoing it. Again, not for me, but that's okay. Um, alright, Frank, let us do a, uh, analysis breakdown. What did you think of the overall day one keynotes? Uh, what's your score? [00:44:26] Frank: I'm gonna give him a passing grade. I'm gonna give him a seven though. Mm-hmm. I don't know. I, I said this in the, in our predictions. I, I think I would've been more excited about ar goggles two years ago when I was staying at home a lot more. But now I go outside and I don't really feel the need for AR goggles, even though I know I'm gonna end up spending the bucks. [00:44:48] James: And they only show these inside. They didn't show anyone walking outside with the AR goggles on. I wanted to bring [00:44:53] Frank: that up. Thank you, sir. Uh, we think alike. Yeah. Like I take a photo now, so I'm like, will this help me mow the lawn? I don't know. You bring it [00:45:04] James: outside even y Yeah, I don't know. I mean it has a wireless battery that's attached via wire. Uh, well it has the camera thing in there too, and recording videos and three dimensions and stuff. Uh, I dunno, it kind of feels like a Google glass weird scenario. I mean, people aren't gonna wear these at bar. That's very powerful. [00:45:21] Frank: Yeah. I'm just thinking like a Miami Beach though. Is it gonna survive? [00:45:26] James: They, they did show one scenario, which was on an airplane, and I actually think that that's cool, but also kind of terrible for the air flight attendants that are gonna be like trying to do stuff and then people are on there, you know? Oh gosh. [00:45:37] Frank: Yeah. Okay. I didn't think about that, but people put face masks on already. Sure. I think the protocol will be about the same. [00:45:44] James: Yeah, probably. Um, I think for me, I'm actually gonna give them an eight, outta 10. Ooh. Um, I do think that the only because the keynote was very apple keynotey fine, I thought that the platform, say the union was, uh, very well developer focused and I really enjoyed it. Uh, they just, they wrote, they wrote in quote, a lot of swift code. I like that. They talked a lot about new Xcode features, new things that I cared about, new kits, and they covered all of it in an hour and 30 minutes. To the T, which I liked and that's including like 30 minutes of vision os stuff that I kind of fell asleep for. But actually I did watch and it kind of helped explain a ar vr r to me. They maybe did the best definition of these spaces and the, they call them the fundamentals. Uh, so to me I thought that was really cool. So I'm gonna give 'em eight outta 10. Um, nice. You know, I still think of, of the conferences this year. Um, it wasn't live, it didn't need to be live, but I also kind of liked that build was was live. Yeah. Google was live and had an aspect of it that was a little bit different. I also thought that they kind of are for developers missing some of these key AI features that maybe will come next year or the year after. So, um, you know, they, they had some new intelligent stuff, but I feel like that was kind of lacking. But I did like that the platform say the union was very, Platform E and I'm excited to watch some videos, deep diving on store kit specifically cuz it's so cool. And thanks store kit and the store kit team for making this my favorite, favorite thing ever. Um, that's good. And um, I thought that was really neat. So yeah. [00:47:13] Frank: That's neat. That's neat. It [00:47:15] James: is neat. [00:47:16] Frank: Yeah. Um, yeah, and, and a it it's being generous. The, the dev focus was really nice though, and refreshing. And so I I do want to ask you a question because you paid a lot more attention than I did. Did they announce co-pilot for Xcode? It's still no. Not gonna happen. Jeepers. No. Get along big [00:47:35] James: corpse. Get the, get the big corpse synergy happen to me. No, nothing at all. They did talk a tiny bit more about improvements to IntelliSense, kind of like intent teleco type of stuff that will Right. Use the context and they'll do some more, uh, um, statically typing of your different, but it's not gonna write a circle for you. No, no, no, no, no. Come on. A lot of nice, I, a lot of nice improve, a lot of nice improvements to xcode with widget kits and snapshots and the previewer and stuff like that. That was really, really cool. But no. Crazy AI stuff. Darn. It's all okay. It's all, all that went into the goggles. So, [00:48:15] Frank: so it's funny because Swift is such a nice programming language, but like you go to use it and co-pilot doesn't work and you're like, wow, this is primitive. Yeah. You [00:48:24] James: know, that's the world. Maybe next year. Maybe next year. Um, not right, Mr. All right. Anything else? Eight outta [00:48:31] Frank: 10. Go ahead. 10. I just can't believe I'm gonna spend money on a thing I wanted two years ago. That's, that's my concluding thoughts. [00:48:39] James: I'm gonna go on vacation, windows, [00:48:43] Frank: viewport spaces, I forget already. Volumes, volumes, volumes. I can't wait to put, put some asteroids and some volumes and use my eyeballs to destroy them. I like it. All right. [00:49:00] James: Well, I think on that, I think we cut it down to under 50 minutes. So I think it's gonna do it for this week's merge conflict on our WW d c 2023 recap. We'll let you know, we think of some of these other sessions and videos and when Frank gets his hands on in a whole year of the vision headset. So that's gonna do it for this week's merch conflict zone. Until next time, I'm James Bon Magno. And I'm Frank [00:49:22] Frank: Krueger. Thanks for watching and listening. Peace.