mergeconflict343
===

[00:00:00] James: Welcome back everyone to another merch conflict. We're celebrating. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. The release of i Circuit Pro Max 

[00:00:18] Frank: Max Max. I Circuit Pro Max. Is that like a I I I I should have done Max Plus. We came up with some real clever names for all the in-app purchase names you could possibly have.

But yeah. Thanks James. It's out. Did. It's out only 

[00:00:35] James: happening. . You did it. I'm very proud of you. We talked about it a few weeks on the podcast, and we have come to the conclusion before this podcast that there's not enough data yet to talk about, said inep subscription updates shenanigans at this point.

Correct. Not enough to allies. This stuff with our or some machine learning algorithm. We're not there. 

[00:00:59] Frank: I also have absolutely no idea what I'm doing when it comes to trends and sales reports and all that stuff. So I'm trying to understand myself how, how, how it's doing, even though I wrote an app to tell me how it's doing.

But yeah, it, it's only been a little bit of time, but people are subscribing. Thank you. Everyone who, um, bought a pro subscription, I have, um, I've gotten a little bit of email of people confused. So I will say, I think I've confused a few people that are just like, uh, so, uh, if I buy the app, why is it have an an app purchase?

Can you explain this pro thing? So I think I have to do a little bit better with my, um, app store description and the UI because I think, isn't there like a UI in the app store so people can see, uh, your in-app 

[00:01:45] James: subscription? That is correct. Now, to enable that piece of functionality, you have to do a little bit of work in your application, um, to accept purchases through the App store.

Ah, and it'll come up as a separate item so they could see I circuit and I circuit Pro next to it in the app store and buy it through there. Um, and I think when you do that, they're linked, uh, better with a better description on the app store. But I'm not a hundred percent sure. Maybe you can do it without, but that being said, yes, I will say that I.

Uh, specifically spent a lot of time on my app store description for, um, my cadence, and I really had to outline what was free and what the N app purchase was and all of the things that you got for it. And that, um, you know, specifically with the free app. I was like, you know, there's, I was like, there's, I, I had to describe all.

Things that were not limitations of the app. Like there's no ads, you know, there's, there's no time limitation. There's, you know, you can use it forever. You know what I mean? Like, like, yeah, blah, blah, blah. Like all these things. And then I said, you get all of that no matter what, blah, blah, blah. And then I was like, if you want to completely optional, you get all of that for free and you can give, you know, go pro and then this is what you get with it, X, Y, Z.

And I really to break down those descriptions a hundred. 

[00:03:13] Frank: Yeah, I think I dropped the ball a tiny bit there, um, being the first time. But now that it's in the app store, I can go see what UI is there, if any. It doesn't sound so bad, uh, supporting that thing. I put in lots of hooks already. And I think I read some docs on it, so we'll, we'll have to do a whole episode when Frank learns how to be as good as James, I'm gonna go steal some things from yours.

I think that's what's really important. That's what everyone was confused by. Um, what are they getting with the purchase versus what's in pro. And so I think I do have to do exactly what you said. Be very clear like, uh, you're getting a full app here, don't you worry. And it's gonna run forever. It's gonna be great.

Pro is just 

[00:03:56] James: an add. Exactly. Now, I do wanna also mention before we get into our topic today that if you're interested in becoming to subscriber to something, you can become a subscriber to this podcast on our Patreon. You get all these podcasts for free, but if you want more, you can become a Patreon subscriber.

In fact, I just enabled Frank a free seven day trial. For anybody watch you just go try it out. Seven day trial to Patreon. You can go. You can just binge all of the bonus episodes. They're now unlocked for everybody. Seven day trial. Check it out. patreon.com/conflict com. Boom. It's in the show notes. Check it out.

Alright, I want to talk about Home Podd. Home Pods back. It's Home pods. Home pods. That right Tim Apple brought it back. Tim Apple brought the. 

[00:04:42] Frank: Are you excited about the HomePod? I I think it, it, it's you and Marco Ding are excited about the HomePod. Um, okay. All right. available starting 2.3. I assume that's a date or something for this HomePod?

Um, 

[00:05:00] James: no, I Is it, uh, is that, is that firmware version two, 2.3 ? Yeah. Why would they do 2.3? That's 

[00:05:06] Frank: What does that mean, James? What does it mean? No. Okay. So I didn't know that you were living the HomePod lifestyle. Uh, I, I, I'm in the, um, Jeff Bezos family of Dingus. 

[00:05:19] James: Well, we do have an Apple TV now. Uh, that is the hub of my network, but a HomePod can also be the hub of your home in general.

But, um, where we're at, we also just set up some speakers, some old speakers that I got from estate sale and I hook that up to an amplifier that has Bluetooth and I spent a lot of time on. and what I get at the end of the day. is some nice looking speakers, but basically I get a Bluetooth hub that I'm sending stuff to, right?

Like it seems like a lot compared to could I just get a home pod and it would like really just fill the entire house with awesome, awesome audio. I probably spent more time and energy and effort. I know the home pot's $300, but I feel like I have to do more work to play audio. and then addition, I like this home pod could be my home hub.

I, 

[00:06:16] Frank: I'm, I'm just imagining like you bought these like cool 1980s giant speakers with a cool 1980s receiver. I did. And you're putting a home pod on top of it. Is, is that what's going on? That's what's in my head and I. 

[00:06:33] James: I possibly could. I mean, I did. So I did buy these, these speakers I think are from the fifties or sixties.

They're, uh, ooh, they're a radio shack, like, like when Radio Shack was good. Do you remember that? You weren't alive? We weren't alive then. Yeah, 

[00:06:47] Frank: yeah, yeah. 

[00:06:47] James: I didn't catch that era. But there was a time when, like Radio Shack made awesome stuff. But these speakers, like people are like Creme de la Crum. They love these speakers and they're in great condition.

But I did buy a modern, small, um, amplifier Receiv. So not one of the hunn big, small Yamaha. 

[00:07:03] Frank: Okay. It doesn't have two cassettes. No, 

[00:07:05] James: but it shouldn't. Okay. Yeah. No record at the top. No. Uh, but that, that's the idea. Actually. It is. Um, it's capable so I can hook up a turntable to it. That would be the idea , that we could do.

But I'm assuming with a hun could do that too. 

[00:07:20] Frank: How many inputs does I, I'm sorry, I'm, I'm getting, I'm detouring this whole podcast on your, uh, little receiver here. How many inputs does it have? Well, the 

[00:07:27] James: inputs, it has two, but then it also has a Bluetooth input as well. Okay. 

[00:07:32] Frank: Neat. Right, so you're using it right as the hub?

Mm-hmm. . So why again, are you interested in the home pod? What is it? Is it Siri? Do you love Siri 

[00:07:43] James: too? Um, no. Well, I do wanna save this. You. I, and we'll get off this topic really quick, but I do, I do think that I am interested where we're at. We have a very, very big room, and obviously the thing that I'm really interested in is the spatial audio and the room sensing capabilities, so the home pod could adjust, playing back audio.

It's not just a dumb speaker, right? Like it's not just mm-hmm. . These speakers that I have, they're just speakers blaring music. so it's not sensing, you know, where, how the room is configured and how things are happening. So yeah, there's that. I additionally think that in this house where we're at right now, we have like a tiny, tiny tv, but it does have airplay capability and all this other stuff built in.

I think it would be really neat to use this home pod as a full surround sound system for the tv. At the same time. I think that would be really neat. 

[00:08:46] Frank: No. So are, are you talking about putting two of 'em in the room or you're just through the magic of Apple's? Awesome speaker. Technology of stereo. 

[00:08:55] James: I mean, it's a 300 hundred.

It's a $300 speaker. That's it. Better be good enough to do the whole freaking it. It better deliver 17.5 audio to my face, okay? Mm-hmm. Virtual. 

[00:09:08] Frank: Okay. Dolby Atmo. , but it's not like tracking you in the room. How can I deliver 7.1 everywhere in the room? I don't care it. Ma ma. Magic apple audio, I guess. 

[00:09:20] James: I dunno.

Well, let's get into, I got two other topics for you. Um, do you wanna talk about the Mac Mini or do you wanna talk about the MacBook Pros today? I wanna talk about the Mac, 

[00:09:29] Frank: mini Mac, Manny. 

[00:09:31] James: Okay. So how has, how has it not changed Design in the last 8,000 years? Is that, how's that pla. It's, 

[00:09:40] Frank: it looks a little slimmer than the, uh, device kits that you and I got.

Doesn't it look 

[00:09:46] James: slimmer? It does. Yes 

[00:09:48] Frank: it does. You know, it's lost a little weight. Shutting the pounds. Yes. It, it, it's a little bit weird. I don't think they're putting a fan in it. Right. So they made an M two, M two Pro version even of the Mac Mini. And as far as I can tell, it's the perfect little apple thing.

If you have a monitor that you already love, I love my iMac, but in the end I. I'm sad because it's an intel, I'll keep it forever, but it's attached to a monitor and I like, I love the monitor, but I kind of want to be able to swap the computer out so I might get back into the mini lifestyle at some point.

[00:10:30] James: Yeah. I personally, this is very timely cuz I just put out a video talking about building and compiling iOS applications remotely from windows. Uh, both without a Mac, but also with a. , uh, mm-hmm and specifically connecting to a Mac. And I had quite a few comments talking about they have Mac Minis or they have a MacBook.

I just have a MacBook Air, which I think works fairly well. However, as we know, all the compilation is being done on the Mac, and of course you can use your Mac as a remote, uh, build host for something like Azure DevOps or, or something else where you could connect it and build from there. So having a relatively powerful.

Little Mac Mini means that your development builds are gonna be faster. Like that's literally what it means. You have a faster machine, it's faster there. And what they're saying here is that the Mac Mini with an M two is faster than an iMac 27 inch with a core I seven and a Radian Pro 5,500 xt. It is faster than.

Well, 

[00:11:40] Frank: that's what I've got basically. I think I have, I think I have a slightly better video card than that, but, well, James, you're making your point. , 

[00:11:48] James: I wanna, I wanna also point out Frank really quickly before we go on. Mm-hmm. important thing this, I've never seen Apple do this, but when you're on the Macin page and it, it's a speed and capabil.

Of course they're gonna talk about the normal things, which are photo editing, video rendering. They have a benchmark for code compiling, and that's what I'm looking at, Frank. Ooh. Ooh. 

[00:12:12] Frank: And, and is it fast? Because all Apple graphs are fast. Of course it's 

[00:12:17] James: fast. Uh, it's definitely way faster. But I do wanna point this out that the Mac Mini with an M two.

Is 1.9 times faster than a Mac Mini with a core I seven. Surprisingly not that much faster than an M one, uh, Mac Mini. However, the Mac Mini with an M two Pro is 3.2 times faster. Then the Mac Mini with the Cho I sit in, that's a lot. That's faster. That's real fast. , 

[00:12:47] Frank: uh, they're good computers. Uh, I, I, I think I will have to invest yet again.

I, I love my laptop, but, um, one of these powerful ones. Eventually I might wait to M three James. I might just be weighing M three, but I've had requests, um, from Kka users. Oh, KKA users. They're fun. Uh, they're like, can we get a apple? Apple silk conversion of the app. So I've been a little bit remiss. Uh, Rosetta's been so good that I haven't been compiling my apps for the m's, but these things are getting so good and I'm feeling a little bit bad having Rosetta between me and these fast processors.

So I kind of wanna do that. I also want to add, um, You need to add about a thousand dollars on top of the already $1,300 for the M two pro because you need that 32 gigabytes of unified memory and you need at least two terabytes of S S D storage. Oof. That is a $2,300 computer. It's good, but I'm a little freaked out that a 2300 hour computer doesn't have a fan in it, and I guess 

[00:13:54] James: it's not good.

Well, so that really gets us into the next question, which is, When people are going out, if they are gonna spend that amount of money, where does the Max Studio fit into the equation? This is an M one max that it has, and the base price is $2,000, which is gonna have 32 gigs of ram. Granted only is a half a terabyte of storage, but it is an M one max, which as we know is two M one Pros.

Yes. Oh, it's not an ultra. I forgot they created an ultra. When did they do that? The names? I know they're so 

[00:14:29] Frank: confusing. Uh, some, I, I hope that there is a chart out there, and if you know of it, everyone please send us on Twitter or the toots or whatever. Uh, please let us know if there's a chart. The part that I'm looking at though is the memory bandwidth.

Hmm. The M one ULTRA is 800 Ji. Bites per second. Capital B is that bites. Okay, let's go with bites. Uh, whereas the M two Pro at its glorious, $1,300 was 2000 chi bites per second. Oh, gotcha. Yeah. So there's definitely a generation gap between them there. There's advantage in 

[00:15:05] James: this to the M two. Yeah, I like that.

All right, let's continue the conversation, but first Frank, I want to take a very quick break and by very quick, I mean this might be the best ad read that I never. That we've ever had on the podcast, cuz it's a brand new sponsor. You don't even know. But I, I think it's a little bit longer, but I think you're gonna just want to hear this ad read everybody.

So I know you're tempted to hit the 32nd Skip. I know you're tempted. Don't do it because I do think that a, uh, a professional wrote this ad and it's very good. I'm gonna try to do it justice. Frank, are you ready? 

[00:15:39] Frank: Oh, I, I am excited. Everyone, ladies and gentlemen, I present to you. 

[00:15:44] James: Hey, how much time do you spend working on the command line?

Frank? How much time do you spend commanding on the working on the command line? A lot. Literally All day. All day. And in fact, if you're probably a listener of merch conflict, it's probably a lot more than the average podcast listener. Well, guess what? Our friends, Miguel and Joseph over at zin have shipped an iOS app for a command line, offic and Autos.

Creatively enough, you're probably thinking, why the heck would they do that? SSH clients have been available on the iPhone since the dawn of time. Good question, dear listener. And as followers of those two might imagine, those guys would only ship such an app if they felt they could bring something exciting and new to the fast paced world of terminal emulation.

And that they have LA terminal represents the state of the art in terminal emulation for mobile command line hackers on iOS and iPad os, including iCloud sync snippets and in-line image support. Who knew image support on a terminal command line was even a thing. Actually, I've used it and it's pretty useful.

They. Nice eye . Yeah. They also have nice eye candy, including resource monitoring tools with powerful CPU and memory use visualizations. A native processor, uh, explorer and a fully them experience accented with beautiful, captivating live effect backgrounds powered by metal performance shaders, as you know how much Frank loves those metal performance shaders.

Hmm. Now of. You know, you can't release an app these days without a healthy dose of ai. You can't do it, Frank. So say hello to Polito, your AI assistant to help you craft commands using plain English. With Polito, you no longer have to struggle with trying to remember complex commands or scour the internet.

For solutions to your terminal problems, simply tap the little brain icon on the top of any active terminal session and tell Polito what you wanna do. For example, you can. How do we create a new branch using Git, or which process is listening on Port two 30? El Polito knows if you're connected to Linux, Mac, or Windows, and will give you the commands appropriate for your shell you are using.

Whether that's Bash, zish, PowerShell, or the DOS command prompt. Listen, go grab LA Terminal from the App Store today. It's completely free lot terminal. Type it into your iPhone right now and download this puppy cuz you're gonna love it. And thanks to our friends over at exhibit for sponsoring this week's pod.

Was that good for you? Huh? That was good. 

[00:18:21] Frank: That was amazing. And I love the product. Uh, El Polito. Is that right? 

[00:18:26] James: I love that. I think so. I told, I told Heather and she's like, you're saying that wrong? And I was like, yeah, I don't, oh no. Darn 

[00:18:31] Frank: it. Well otherwise it was a perfect read. I'm sure. I'm sure we're getting it close.

I think it's like what a cool app actually use. Use this app. Yeah. Yeah, 

[00:18:39] James: it Full good app. Full disclosure. Yeah, it's a good app. And I'm not even a terminal person and I use the app. Can you believe that? 

[00:18:47] Frank: Well, you know, like I, I, I live the iPad Life. I love my iPad, and you, you just sometimes gotta go talk to a Unix machine.

It's just how life is these days. 

[00:18:57] James: Do you know what I did actually from it, funnily enough, is I actually connected to my Mac and then I launched and controlled my stream timer from. Because it, I can From a terminal. From a terminal. Mm-hmm. , how'd you control Stream Timer? Because it, it listens to, uh, different command line.

Terminal commands. Very good. Do deep blinking cuz I imagine you're 

[00:19:25] Frank: amazing. I know. Good job. Um, deep blinking. 

[00:19:29] James: Deep Lincoln. Oh, okay. So let's get, let's get back to the Mac Mini. Um, I think forever, I've loved the Mac Mini, just in general. I think it's a great device, which is why I love the form factor of that Windows dev box machine that, uh, the team at Microsoft, the company I work for, put out, I have one, it's on my desk.

It's fantastic. And, you know, between those two devices, you know, being able to switch between those, you kinda have like the power of everything that you need. The question really at the end of the day is, are, is this thing going to replace the tower that you might build under, you know, your machine, or is it going to replace, you're using what an IAC right now?

Yeah. 

[00:20:13] Frank: iMac live in the iMac life. 

[00:20:15] James: So is it something. That is worth going into, or is it just worth saying, Hey, listen, I'm gonna build a super powerful, powerful desktop machine for Windows, or I'm going to. You know, just invest in a actual iMac or Mac Pro or Mac Studio or something like, that's really the question at the end of the day, Frank.

Yeah. 

[00:20:38] Frank: Um, Al although I am living the iMac lifestyle, I, I said I, I'm being an, I was always, uh, a Mac mini user, but I, I wanna do a, a Mia Copa realtime update. Okay. I was, uh, bragging that the M two had a very large, uh, memory b. I was wrong, . I got the numbers wrong. It turns out the, uh, studio, the Max Studio has, uh, 200 and 400 GBS per sec.

And the M two s is 100 and 200. Yeah. So it is in fact slower, fewer CPUs. Fewer GPUs, and a little bit slower. And that's why it's cheaper than the studio. Yeah. But it's, it's very confusing that the M two is a little bit slower. Than, uh, the M one, uh, max and Ultra, their, their product line is getting a little bit wacky.

I think they're gonna have to reign it in somehow, or do better than Pro Max and Ultra for describing these things. 

[00:21:39] James: I, and you know, the, the real issue that I have most of the time with Apple E things is how they stagger out the releases. So, for example, what would be great is, When this was launching is that the Mac Mini and the Mac Studio and even the Mac Pro, I mean at least the Mac Mini and the Mac Studio, they make sensor in the same category that they could get updated at the same time.

Because then, and I know it's supply chain and it's all this other stuff, but what I'm saying is, you know, when you look at it, you're like, well, you. Now there's M one s and M two s. Like, they're very different. They're, they're perceived difference. How are you supposed to know that when you see M two? You just assume that everything about the M two is better than the M one, but that is not the case, and that's why it gets, that's why it gets tricky.

[00:22:33] Frank: Yeah, I got, I got fooled myself right here on the podcast, , so darn, darn, darn, darn. But, um, the good news is they're making a mini, so at least it exists. I, I never actually bought the highest end minis, maybe once in my life, but I, I tended to get mid-range. Hmm. Um, and while I say you definitely need the 32 gigabyte memory update, I've been doing plenty of zamarin dev right.

On my, uh, M one air with 16 gb and that's been. . No lower than 

[00:23:06] James: that, obviously. Yeah, of course. No, I agree. In fact, what I've recommended to people in the past is my M one MacBook Air with 16 gigabytes, I think is a fantastic device. I've really enjoyed it and I still think it's super powerful. I'm really enjoying it here.

I do think that the design, compared to the new MacBook Air with the M two chip, is subpar. I love the new look and we're about to talk about some other new devices here, but I do love the new non winged out bottom or whatever, but I still love my device. I, I don't wanna, I don't wanna shame my, my device.

Yeah, I do love it. It's so, it comes in gold, so that's good. However, I do think that, you know, the M one with the 16 gigs, I'm still very impressed. Now will I still be impressed with it? A few years. What over the next OS is like I put Ventura on and it seems fine. Ventura is weird. It's a weird update. The settings menu is all funky.

I don't get it. Um, I don't like it. They change too much, but, uh, and not enough at all. I don't know. So, so that means to me, right, and, and, and if I'm coming to this conclusion when people are watching the video and they're like, Hey, I need to buy a Mac cuz I wanna, you know, get my certs. I wanna do stuff, but I don't wanna spend a lot of.

I will tell you, well, the best way, the best entry point is probably the baseline. MacBook Mini with 16 gigs of Ram, 800 bucks. Not a bad deal. I'm sure there's gonna be a sale at Costco or something, and that's pretty decent. You know, you probably want a half a terabyte, but if you can, you know, eh, okay, now you're at a thousand.

But, but you know what I mean, like, you can, you could scrape by with 2 56, I mean, if, if you're not using it as your main. 

[00:24:48] Frank: Ish. You know, I, I was just coming to a terrible conclusion. Um, the, I I, I was also looking at your code, compiling chart that is showing the code compiling is about twice as fast than my, as my computer

Mm, yeah. Darn. But, um, I was thinking, I'm like, I'm, but I'm gonna have this iMac for the rest of my life because it's an Intel computer and I need to be making sure my software still runs well on Intel computers. But then James, but then can you. Run an intel version of a virtual machine through Rosetta, I believe.

May be something they support. I wonder if that's something, um, or at least one of the vendor supports like VMware. I wonder, and I should report back if I can actually run Intel, uh, emulators on these m computers. You wouldn't happen to know the answer to that 

[00:25:45] James: question, would you? I do not know . That would 

[00:25:48] Frank: be awesome.

So wouldn't that be awesome? Then I could, uh, then I could actually up upgrade to one of these p. . 

[00:25:55] James: Yeah, I like. Well, I have myself thinking about a different upgrade because I did talk about my beautiful, I know I did talk about my beautiful MacBook Air, but Frank, there are new MacBook Pros with M two Pros and Maxes, no Ultras, but you know, they're, they're not there.

They're in whatever, some other device. I'm sure not to be confused at the MacBook Pro, 13 inches has an M two, which is the old design. This is the. Hot design. And these hot puppies are gorgie because they, they, they have that MacBook Air, the, the new design, and they have a 14 inch and a 16 inch. And ooh, I'm a sucker for a good 14 inch device.

Um, I just did 15 inch, 16 inch, a little bit too big, but fifth, 14 inch. That sounds good to me. Um, these puppies have all the things that you can possibly want, which is up to 12 cores, 38 cores of G P U up to 96 gigabytes of unified memory. Frank, 96 gigabytes and eight terabytes configured for storage.

Who doesn't want that? Hmm. I'm just saying this is, this is like, you know, it's not a huge deal going on here for these new devices, but I wanted to point it out that there's a. Nice new developer machines in the world of Mac and . I'm digging it, you know what I mean? Not like these designs. These are good, solid designs.

I've seen them because I have some friends that have them, and I'm jealous. Frank, I'm jealous because I don't have this cool design. 

[00:27:24] Frank: Yeah. The, the one thing the MacBook Pros have that I don't have are ports . . 

[00:27:30] James: Yeah. Well, true. Me too. Sammy 

[00:27:31] Frank: or Sammy. So I, I have to dongle everything and I was just looking, and it, it doesn't have any U S B A ports, so I guess U U S B A, you're gone, you're gone puppy.

Um, but, Yeah, I've always saw about getting the pros. The truth. Truth is I just don't use the laptop very much. However, if I was a laptop user, oh my God, I'd be jumping all over. This has feet. How do you feel about feet on your laptop, James? And this new design, 

[00:27:56] James: I'm a fan of little Feet. My, uh, my surface laptop for which I'm running and recording this podcast on, which is one of my favorite laptops, by the way.

I love it, has little feets on it, and they're cute. A little nubs, a little nub, feet, and. , it gets it right off the ground. You know why they do that? Cuz there's no fan or maybe there's a fan in this, but maybe that's why they put it in there. There's, yeah, there's definitely a fan in this machine, but there's probably fans in this machine.

You gotta get it off the ground. 

[00:28:21] Frank: Yeah, it's, it's, it's gorgeous. Uh, so I'm, I'm a little bit behind. Um, it ha , sorry. Uh, so this has Make Safe three. Did the previous Pro, did they go back to MagSafe or was that using u s BBC charging. 

[00:28:36] James: That is a good question. I don't know. I didn't, I wish I could go back, way back when.

[00:28:40] Frank: These are, this is a gorgeous computer. What, what do you, what do you think the opening price, how, how, how much would you pay for one of these gorgeous computers? 

[00:28:48] James: Well, if it's buying Apple 5 billion, um, I don't know. I looked it up. So it's $2,000, huh? 

[00:28:55] Frank: Yeah, it's funny it comes in at the same price as the Mac studio.

Yeah. But, um, it's obviously a powerhouse machine. not quite the memory bandwidth I, I've learned on this podcast, but it comes with a gorgeous monitor and a notch. Have I, I have not been testing my apps against the notch, but I'm hoping, uh, the mini bar takes care of it so we don't have to deal with the notch on the Max.

I don't know if I can, I, I don't know if I can business justify buying it just to test my software against the notch either. 

[00:29:26] James: No, I, I have to say, you know, looking at the benchmarks compared to the Mac, compared to the MacBook Pro? Well, yes, it does destroy the, you know, I seven machines. I gotta say it's not actually that much more impressive over the M one versions of the MacBook Pro.

I don't, it, it, this is more of just a generational bump in my opinion, cuz when you start to look at these side by side, , you know, things like, they'll be like, oh, okay, um, ML image, uh, upscaling performance, oh, 10.6 x. But then you look at the M one and it's, eh, it's actually like, you know, not that big of a deal.

One point whatever. And same thing with code compiling, like, yeah, it's faster, but actually the max and the PRO are exactly the same. I say 4.4, 4.4, and then it's just a little bit more than the, the M one PRO in max. Like, so that is what, what really has. Thinking here is if I have an M one Pro or an M one max today, is it really that big of a deal going to a M two Pro and Max compared to I James Monte Magno have an M one?

No other words behind it? MacBook Air, how big of a jump would it be to go to a pro or a max? And that feels substantial to. . Yeah, 

[00:30:52] Frank: I guess I would rely on the old review websites for non Apple performance numbers. I, I'm, I'm a stickler for just, you know, good old raw CPU performance, that kind of stuff. Can I make a complaint, little side tangent here.

Oh, um, yeah, of course. I was getting a neural network to run on Apple device. So on my M one iPad specifically is where I was doing most of this work. Hmm, but also my phone and my, my whole point here is Apple's putting a lot of effort into the neural engine. And so a lot of those performance numbers are things optimized for the neural engine.

Now, my complaint, , uh, the neuro network I was running, um, G P T two. Basically a pretty standard port of it to core ml. When I would run it on the neural engine, it would give bad results. Oh. I had to force it to run on the CPU U so that I got good results and that just broke my heart. Cuz I thought, oh, here I went through all the effort to get like a decent neural network.

It was even. code that I think Apple sponsored to pay, to convert it over to work in cor Komel. Hmm. And the stupid thing came and take advantage of the neural engine. It runs fine with the CPU just slower and less efficiently. You know, it's probably using more power than it would on the neural engine.

And it, it, it was sad. So we, in the future, these things will work out right. But, uh, in the present, we are in this awkward state where, uh, a lot of the performance stuff that they. Uh, maybe software hasn't quite kept up yet, or it's hard for software to keep up. I'm trying, but I, I can't get this stupid thing to even 

[00:32:42] James: run on the neural engine.

Yeah. I gotta say, I think if I'm in the market right now, I don't wanna poo anything. But if I'm in the market right now, I gotta say I'm probably not gonna buy any MacBook products at all. This is my, this is my new recommendation because I feel like there's gonna be a transformative change here in the next year, and I.

I'm not gonna say cuz I heard it cuz Mark Germond said it. But , I think they. They may bring the touchscreen to a Mac. I'm just saying it may happen. 

[00:33:14] Frank: Oh gosh. Oh, if only, if only the guy. How many times do you poke? You have to, I especially, because I live the iPad lifestyle, I, I switch over to the Mac and I just start.

poking everything. You, you can't help it. Even though the things are tiny. I still try to poke 'em. 

[00:33:30] James: My MacBook Airs screen is disgusting. It is gross, , because I just touch it all the time and nothing happens, which makes it worse. Um, no. Yeah, and I'm 

[00:33:40] Frank: not sure they designed the glass to be poked, you know, ? No, no.

Not supposed to be , 

[00:33:46] James: but I feel like that's the rumor on the mill, and it has been for a while. I just feel like right now, and maybe it's just a software thing where they're really trying to get these, you know, new, um, what's that showtime thing or whatever. What were we talking about? The thing? The show.

Show show Steady. Show Steady. Rock . Show, show. 

[00:34:09] Frank: Uh, you know, I, I thought I knew what you were talking about until you went on that little rant there, . Uh, is that the one where like the camera tracks you 

[00:34:18] James: that? Nope. No spotlight. Nope. Not Spotlight. No. Hold on. Not Spotlight. Hold on. I'm, uh, I'm scrolling through the Venture now.

Continuity 

[00:34:25] Frank: camera. I like continuity camera. Don't need an M two for that though. 

[00:34:29] James: Stage manager. Oh, 

[00:34:32] Frank: stage manager. 

[00:34:33] James: Okay. Yeah. And then also, do you need an M two for that? No. The touch screen? 

[00:34:39] Frank: Yes. Okay. Yeah. Oh, you think they're gonna stage manager Mack? I'm not sure it's gonna. 

[00:34:45] James: I don't know. I, I'm just thinking, well, you, you can stage manager Mac today and then, you know, I think that you're bringing, you know, iPad apps over, you're doing this other stuff.

I don't know, just it would make some sense to have more continuity and if they're bringing to, to me, I feel like what they've done is they're, they're, they've overtime brought Mac os closer to iPad os and iPad OS closer to Mac Os and like that lack of touchscreen hinders software developers at some point because imagine you, Frank.

You could incorporate and test, you know, different things into eye circuit, for example, um, for touchscreen controls where now you have to really design things for, uh, mouse and keyboard, you could improve some different, different aspects of it, perhaps for, for touchscreen. No. 

[00:35:35] Frank: Oh, for sure. Um, and, you know, I was thinking.

Okay, so I circuit's a fun example because, um, the circuit editor, I control all the gestures myself and on Mac, because it's an operating old op, older operating system, it's very mouse specific. You know, mouse click down, mouse moved. Mouse clicked up. They don't translate exactly to touches as hard as much as we try to like make 'em all seem the same on every operating system, you know?

Well, mice are different from touchscreens and so there's a reason I think Apple's been a little bit afraid to do it, but they should just deal with it because I've used. This is a little bit silly, but I've logged into my Mac from my iPad with like, um, V N C, you know? Mm-hmm. And those gestures can be translated, it can create the right things.

Um, I think Microsoft definitely got the advantage here where they, uh, gear the sizes and visuals of the operating system toward a touchscreen many, many years ago. And they've been refining it for many, many years. Um, Doing a Mac with touchscreen. Mac's definitely not ready for it right now, but uh, you know, in fact, they made the toolbar smaller on Ventura.

Did you? I have so many apps where the toolbar is just clipping because for the first time ever, they've made the toolbar slightly smaller on Mac. And so I feel like they're kind of going in the opposite direction, of what they need to do to make these things, uh, touch friendly. 

[00:37:20] James: Yeah, that's a good point.

I, I do feel like. You know, windows, for example, has come a long ways where, you know, I think in the beginning what you don't wanna do is force app developers to have to try to overly optimize and do a bunch of stuff to make their applications touch friendly when they were keyboard and mouse friendly before.

However, you need to adapt the operating. to adjust hit, and there's a bunch of low level stuff, right? You need to adjust these hit ratios and all these other things for it, where I feel like no matter what application I'm using on Windows now, I feel like, you know, 90%, 95%, like I'm, I'm doing good with it when I'm, when I'm, when I'm building it.

Cuz not every single website and everything's optimized for touch, but at the same time, I do believe that the operating system on Windows itself has, has done a really, really great, it's come so far, right, and I feel like Apple could have or should progress Mac Os to be this more touch focused, friendly operating system.

Because if you look at the stage manager and bring in all these other, you know, iPad and iPhone applications over, it makes logistical sense that the operating system. Would make it a better use case for touch. 

[00:38:46] Frank: Yep. Yep. , you're just making it make me imagine all, all the bugs that are gonna happen in my ax.

I still think they should do it. It's, it's, yeah, just, just so that all the dirty fingerprints on my screen were worth it because what do we really want with touch? I was thinking, um, Text editing on the iPad, and I make so many, uh, text-based apps, so I'm, I'm sorry. When I keep trying to do text editing on the iPad, it, it's rough.

Um, the roughest part of it is selection, I think with your fingers. I think in the. Whatever, 14 years of iPhones, we still haven't perfected, uh, selecting text and moving the cursor and things like that. And I would hate to see that logic brought over to Mac . I think it would be terrible , but at the same time, they gotta bring some logic over.

You know, it's, again, touches are different, but it, it's gonna be tricky. Um, you know, the, the gesture we all want to do, At least the what accounts for the majority of the fingerprints on my screen is scrolling a web browser. But if you think about that gesture, your finger. Presses down, you glide it up, you release that looks like a mouse down, mouse drag, mouse up event.

And so will they have to make scrolling to finger and then it's gonna feel very different from how it feels on the iPad. So there are definitely pro software problems to be solved. Um, it's not just a matter of slapping, uh, a sensor on 

[00:40:26] James: these. Well, we'll have to wait until next year's New MacBooks and MacBook heirs and all this other, do you think they'll introduce touch on MacBook heirs first, or do you think MacBook Pros.

[00:40:38] Frank: Oh, I, uh, uh, ooh, that's a good one. Uh, I, I would think errors was my first gut response, but I, I'm trying to think it through and give you a logical reason, and I can't really come up with a logical reason, so I just, I, my gut response was air. 

[00:40:54] James: And do you think that they will create a new sku? So to be like MacBook Air Touch?

[00:41:02] Frank: Touch the air, I touch, um, yeah. 

[00:41:06] James: Featuring the technology. 

[00:41:09] Frank: Would, would it have, uh, pencil support? Because then, then you could actually Wow. Mind blown that that would be one way to solve the, are you dragging or are you touching Pressing Well, uh, well, okay. Um, will it have touch in the name? Absolutely not.

They'll come up with something more clever. . But yeah, it will be a different skew. Yeah, for sure. . 

[00:41:34] James: Nice. Well, let us know what you think of all the new Apple devices and what you thought about that Adri. Cause if you liked it, of course you've probably already downloaded. LA Terminal and let us know what you think of that app.

And if you want more different app type, uh, sponsors, we'll do a call out. If, uh, you got an app out there folks, let us know. Do a little shout out, um, to y'all. Uh, hit us up. Um, uh, yeah, get that free trial membership to our Patreon. Listen to all of our sweet, sweet back episodes of Bonus Pods. That's super rad.

And, um, yeah, let us know if you actually want touchscreen support on your Mac or not. I. I just have had touch on every single device almost ever that I, it just feels like a glaring oversight at this point. And, uh, I know that Steve Jobs was like, no, but, uh, come on, Tim. Make it happen. Come on. Damn. 

[00:42:25] Frank: I think that's when I, I would finally, if if they have a a, a touch laptop, then you know I'm gonna start poking my um, iac and I think that's when it'll finally have to go.

So when do we get to touch? I max, that's what I 

[00:42:37] James: want to know. 2028. That's my prediction. 

[00:42:42] Frank: Okay, I'm gonna hold you to it. Okay. We'll be at episode A billion. 

[00:42:46] James: Nice. All right, well thanks everyone for tuning in. I super duper appreciate it. And of course, if you like this, uh, podcast, you can give it a review. We don't actually ask for that ever, but if you're on Apple Podcast, cuz you have an I device, give us a little review.

We like that. We read it back. We, we appreciate that. And, um, yeah, I think it's gonna do for this week's podcast. So until next time, I'm James Mat Mag. 

[00:43:06] Frank: And I'm Frank Krueger. Thanks for listening. 

[00:43:09] James: Peace.