Speaker 1 (00:09):
Frank.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Oh my goodness. We almost forgot to record this podcast and almost happen. We're getting later and later, I think we're really mentally taking the summer off, even though I'm very proud of us. We've we've had every week, we haven't missed a show yet, but I think mentally we're kind of missing shows every so often. I mean, what is a day in the life of, of whatever this is at any at this point I have, no, I didn't literally have no idea. Like when you, when you were like, Oh, when do you want to record? And I was like, I don't even know what time it is. It could, it could already be midnight. I don't, I don't know. And now, you know, the sun's going down so much later, you know, it's eight 20 right now and it's still bright outside, which I think adds to the confusion as well.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Absolutely, absolutely. Um, I kind of assume that we're recording a podcast every night at this point, because every day is the same. So I'm just assuming that I'm going to be recording something. And honestly, I get a little sad at four 30. I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm not recording anything today. Yeah. Well, time doesn't exist. But that side it's lightening. We could James. So we have calendars time doesn't exist, but calendars seem to exist. It's a lightening week. How fun is that? Yeah, I love it. And that's why I wasn't too worried about recording this one later because I put out a, I put out a tweet just hours before we recorded and we got awesome lightning suggestions. If you're new to the podcast, every 10 episodes, Frank and I, instead of doing one big topic, we do six small lightning topics. Um, all submitted, mostly submitted all by our listeners.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
You can tweet at us, you can go into our discord and there's a nice little channel in there. Or, um, or you can even write us an email and we'll also read those as well. And, uh, all but one are from our listeners because literally before this show happened, Frank, um, I've just been struggling with reconfiguring. My home is set up managing cables back and forth, and also attempting to figure out how in the world I'm going to connect all my devices to my new Apple. DTK Apple, Silicon Mac mini with like one USBC port coming out, or like what's going on here? What is happening? I don't know how many, how many adapters have you purchased already? It's the feature James that's what's happening? USBC is the future. It's funny because I've mostly not bought new desktop computers. Excuse me. So I haven't had to deal with USB-C but boy, what a complicated standard it is, huh? I keep downloading infographic after infographic and things are getting worse because USB C is USB 3.1, plus the connector thing. And now USB 3.2 is coming out. If you thought things were crazy, things are getting even crazier. Well, looking in front of me, my Mac mini DTK, my book

Speaker 3 (03:00):
Also has, um, they both have USBC out. So one nice thing is that I was able to take my USBC adapter from Apple, plug it into either my surface book or my Mac mini and the HDM I just worked. But I also have my Nintendo switch over here, which also does HTMI out charging and Bluetooth, if you have it, like what doesn't USB CD or USBC do, I don't quite understand. It's like this magical port that nobody understands and every single cord and cable is completely different. In fact, I was wrapping up my cords and cables and I had a full, full length, six foot cable USBC on one side, normal HTMI on the other side, what am I even going to do with that cable? Frank? I don't even know.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
It's so funny too, because although USBC, the standard can do everything. Literally. Um, each cable and computer combination can only do some things. So buying dongles for it is so interesting because you can either have, you know, four USB, three ports, or you can have an SD card reader with maybe an HTMI thing. Like the permutations are so weird and then none of those can actually do power delivery, the high voltage high, current thing that we actually want because this port has replaced our power charging ports. You know, it's, I haven't bought one of the new iPads and I think it's when I buy a new iPad is when I'm just going to have to convert over to the USBC lifestyle. But I I'm kind of afraid because I was just cleaning out the office as part of the last episode. And Oh boy, did I find a whole tub of cables and uh, like old connectors, but I'm just never going to need in my life ever again. But how are we ever going to recognize that in the future, when everything looks the same, all these USBC cables look the same. I have Thunderbolt three, which is a very specific kind of cable. It can only be like two inches long per the spec. And it's a USBC connector. It's so confusing. J

Speaker 3 (05:05):
It is. I mean, I will say what's even more confusing is that of all of the devices on my table right now, there's only one that doesn't use USBC and you know what that is? That's my iPhone se poor little iPhone se

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Do you want to do a prediction? Do you think I phones are ever going to get, I mean, okay. And a million years, maybe iPhones are going to get USB-C. How about this year, James? 20, 20? Are we getting yeah,

Speaker 3 (05:32):
No, no, not when I'm ready.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
No, I don't think so. Either the people would be like in this economy, how can you change our ports? You know, something like that.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
You know, I remember when it was the 32 bit through or 32 pen or whatever, 16 pin or whatever it was Penn. Yeah. I mean, I do, I do love the lightening cable. It's it's great. You know, it is the inverse, right? It it's, it's a, um, you, it's not hollow. The USBC is hollowed out and you, you know, it's different. It's, it's wacky. Um, it's, they're just different. They're, they're the inverse of each other. You could almost shove them into each other. Um, but I think that this will be a 20, 21, 2022 for Apple. My analysis here is that they need to finalize rolling out as many Mac ask products. And additionally, just if everything else becomes USBC and then they do it though, everyone will be like, Oh, I already have already have a billion charges, not a big deal, but also remember what is on that? You got a new iPhone. Well, you had a new iPhone before you dropped it into the water. Um, you got a dongle and what was on one side of that dongle, Frank? Uh, I, I feel like

Speaker 2 (06:48):
I'm being, I'm being tricked. James. I have so many dongles, which, which one of my uncles are you referring to?

Speaker 3 (06:54):
So when you bought a new iPhone 11 pro the, you got the bigger brick and that bigger brick had USB C on one side.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
I love that big brick because it actually has a lot of supported voltages. This is kind of fun. I do have a couple of computers that are USB-C and oddly enough, they were the kind of cheaper ones. So I have a Chromebook, I have the Microsoft surface little tiny surface thing and yeah, go, thank you. And, um, yeah, the phone and they each came with their own power bricks. Oddly enough, it was the Microsoft one. They came with the most amazing power brick I've ever seen. It can output all the voltages boy. I hope I'm not confusing it with the Chromebook right now, but I'm pretty sure like, because even USBC power delivery has a variety of voltages and a variety of power levels. So the new iPhone one was quite nice. I liked that quick charger. I especially noticed that when I plugged in my iPhone five and it could only charge at one amp and it was like, how did we live with these things?

Speaker 3 (08:00):
I know I have the, I have the old one. And then, uh, Heather has a new one plugged in and I enter the kitchen. I always go into the kitchen and do it, but all right, we're out of time for onto the next one from a Liam. What do we got?

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah. This one comes from Liam Boyle and talking about old things and replacing them with new things. It's C sharp nine times, James. I can't believe, like, I feel like we just got through C-sharp eight. This one year release cycle is it's a lot to keep up with, but, uh, the specific question is C sharp nine is getting with, that's a key word with and records. Am I happy that it's getting F sharp like features? Well, I think you answered your own question and the question, am I happy? C sharp getting F sharp, like features? I don't know, James, what do you think I am?

Speaker 3 (08:48):
I think that you are disgusted inside now. I am appalled how dare they have a data class? Shipe uh, whatever. Uh, no, I think that, I think it's pretty exciting times. I mean, as I see some of the other languages like Swift and Kotlin progress, um, built from the ground up more recently, it's nice to see C-sharp continuously evolve, um, and take on some of those functional asks style of programming. And while, while some of the maybe F sharp as features, I just sort of think of them as more modern day features that other languages are getting. So it's sort of C-sharp is time, you know, and some of the other ones are getting, or, or, or at least brand new to me, uh, and really cool. Cause they are, they're fitting in with the C sharp, um, syntax. Like my, my new favorite is this in it as accessor's, um, which is, you know, usually I get set.

Speaker 3 (09:45):
Um, however, one thing that's always bothered me is if you wanted it to be only a getter, you had to put the initialization of that field, um, somewhere else, like in a constructor and perhaps you're setting a read only field, and it's super annoying because the code is now disconnected from each other. And probably one of my favorite features here, because I think I will use this all the time. Is that underneath the get, you can put the keyword in it and then that will now allow you to initialize a read only field, which I think is really cool. I think like that's just a great addition, like really cool.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, because the alternative was you had to write a constructor, which honestly isn't that much code, but it's not, but it was annoying, especially if you're doing just little, tiny little private classes that were just doing a little function, or if you're adopting the functional style where you actually have a lot of these tiny little datatypes and they're tiny because he tend to use composition more. You're not like creating a super object that can mutate the universe, control cars, control airplanes, and do IOC all at the same time. You know, you're not doing that. You're creating tiny little data structures, constantly. Lots of them, um, functional programming has lots of data structures and lots of functions. That's all it is. And so it's nice to just have this refined syntax and, you know, C sharp has been getting functional features since C sharp to, you know, when the delegate, uh, syntax came out, that was a functional feature passing functions around.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
It's literally what that is. And so, um, I think it's really good that they are just making this style of programming easier. It's not a knock against object oriented object or in is still very useful. We're definitely stuck with object oriented for UI programming, probably for the rest of eternity. So, you know, um, just making life easier for people who like functional style, I think it's good, especially F sharp people, um, you know, a functional language forces you into a style, which can be a little annoying sometimes, but when you come back to C sharp speaking for myself, you can't help. But to still think in that style, you know, it's, it's a way of thoughts. So thank you for making this syntax easier for that.

Speaker 3 (12:04):
Uh, any other favorite features here? I know we'll probably do a full episode at one time. I know that this is still draft ask about, uh, any other favorite features that you really hope get in there?

Speaker 2 (12:13):
Well, I, it was actually in that tweet there that with syntax, because with immutable data, you end up writing these really obnoxious constructors in C sharp right now, because you have to initialize anything. And anytime you want to like clone the object and just change one field, you had to write the code to do that. It was boiler plate code. It's something a compiler could easily generate. And guess what, James, now that compiler can easily generate that code for you. So say I have an immutable object, that's a person, and I want to change their first, last name. Um, I can just say, uh, take Timmy, Timmy, but with this last name of Jones, and now we have a Timmy Jones, it's just syntax, but you know, that's what a compiler is. This is giving us syntax for common patterns that we use all the time.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah. And also, I believe what I really like is with that, with expression that also you, and sort of a lot of other features in here, a lot of are going to really streamline the constructing objects in general. Um, I'll just say it before we get out, but besides that, I love the new pattern matching stuff, um, top level.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
That's awesome. And onto the next topic, we just dodged that bullet

Speaker 3 (13:27):
Holly shelling. I'm a fan of the show front of the show, um, uh, says this could be possibly an entire episode on its own. I love a challenge. Uh, but how about and folding in five minutes, how about building Xamarin from source to help test and contribute code to it? Now she did say Xamarin, but I can also say Xamarin forms. I think that's the easier part, um, because there's some great, I mean, it's very large in general. So I think there's some good blog posts about doing it, pulling it down, adding some features to it. But honestly, the Xamarin bits, I have never done that at all. I have attempted to on Xamarin Android to fix up a binding one time, but then I just opened it in vs code and just change the wording of it manually and checked it in the past. But I know you did a big pull request in general, but that was a binding. But I guess as are beyond that scope, you, you probably have more context all of this. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (14:26):
Yeah. It's actually not so bad. Um, Xamarin is open source. You can go download it and build it yourself. All the code is there. Um, and I did that way back in the early days, like 2008 timeframe, it was a, um, it was a lot smaller product back then. james' life was simpler. Um, but there are built instructions on get hub. If you go to the repo, which I think a Xamarin Mac iOS, I always just type get hub. I would Google search for it every time. And there are build instructions and it's really not that bad as you can imagine, it's a giant download and it has the trickiest part of it. It has very specific version requirements. So it wants a very specific version of mano. It wants a specific version of X code. So you can't just be having your random app store versions of X code.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
You actually have to have a site install of a very specific version. It's going to add in all these toolings, but what's kind of fun is the build script is pretty good these days. And so if your environment is not set up right, it tells you, and usually it gives you a link to the thing you need to go download and all that. And so I would say following their instructions, it's actually really easy to compile Xamarin from scratch. Uh, it takes forever. You're going to want a big machine and, uh, you, you even compile it with eight threads or eight processes running concurrently. Cause it's that big that it's really worth doing it because it's compiling Mac iOS, watch TV, you know, all that stuff. There's just so much to get through.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
Yeah. And I'm a, I'm assuming this steps are pretty similar if you need to do mano from source or if you need to do Xamarin Android from source now, very similar steps there, I guess. How do you go about, I mean, that those are bindings, I guess in the performance stuff. I compilation stuff too, is in a different space. How does that work?

Speaker 2 (16:28):
Well, actually the Xamarin is, um, basically basically, uh, just a bunch of libraries plus a tool to package everything together into an app. And those are roughly what you get in that repo, all the bindings. These are bindings to the objective C Apple APIs, and those are pretty straightforward. You can read through those and modify them pretty easily. Um, the trickier parts are the tools, the things that are actually doing the heavy work of running the AOT version of mano packaging, everything into a.app and, you know, info P list, all, you know, all, all that kind of crazy stuff. So if you ever want to modify a Xamarin first, you have to figure out what is it that you want to accomplish? Am I changing our binding, which I think is actually very easy and straightforward once you get everything compiling or do I want to work on the tool side, you know, add a feature to the tooling itself. And that requires a bit more effort because those tools are complicated.

Speaker 3 (17:32):
Yeah. Th the sort of depends on what you're attempting to look at and contribute to. And then that will decide where you must go. And I know that, you know, being on the inside inside baseball is, I know the team spent a lot of time over the few years. We're really trying to

Speaker 2 (17:50):
Streamline that process. Like you were saying with the build scripts and everything like that, because, you know, as the platforms progress, you know, you don't, the team doesn't want to wait bajillions of hours and things like that, and they need to streamline the bills. I know there was a lot of, a lot of energy and effort into the actual ops part of, of streamlining a lot of that stuff. And if you ever want people to contribute, you gotta make it somewhat doable. Right. So, yeah. Uh, that's, that's good to hear that it's a better process. Yeah. And I really appreciate that. It's frustrating at first, because the build script is so specific about things, you know, you're like, it's good enough, buddy. Just compile the stupid thing. But, um, it's nice that they give you the link so you can easily find the thing. And they even have little overrides. If you're like, trust me, build script. I know what I'm doing. That's what they should call it. The dash dash, I know what I'm doing.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
Well, we have our next topic, James. And honestly I'm a little bit confused by his whole title because the title is just best. Cross-platform what framework language is there such a thing? Is that the best? Is this a philosophical discussion? What are we going to do here? I dunno, VI Vishay, uh, Mala on Twitter said, what is the best cross platform for a new app now? Blazer, Xamarin, UNO, Dinah, Maui, flutter, ionic, et cetera. Please help me. I don't know. What are you building? What is your background and what are you attempting to have some run-on? Uh, I don't know. All of them. I don't know. Yeah. So I think what we, what we should switch is yeah. You could really get into a paralysis over this, especially I think if you're just starting out and you're not super comfortable in any one of these, like maybe like, yeah, the world is your oyster.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
You could use any of these cross platform frameworks. Um, I would, like you were saying, what's your history. I'd go with the one that is closest to what you already kind of know. If you only know web development, then maybe you should use a web kind of thing, like laser or whatever. Um, me, I grew up doing native UI development, you know, so I always want native UI kind of stuff. So that limits me to basically Xamarin. What else, what else can do native Jane Swift UI, I guess. Yeah, but that doesn't, that's not, I don't consider Swift UI four way cross platform. Cause it's still Apple platform, you know, you're not, I guess there have been some efforts, but you're not going to get Android. You're not going to get windows off the shelf, you know? So there's a, uh, uh, Caitlyn, Caitlyn for iOS maybe is there like with bindings.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
Okay, thanks. I don't know. I don't know what bindings. Yeah. And this is where you get into sure. Like someone might have the compiler working on that platform, but there's a big difference between we were just about all the bindings that Xamarin is. That's taken them, you know, eight years of effort to create all those bindings to all those APIs. Um, but if you're not concerned about native stuff, then I think you have so many options. Maybe that's kind of the issue. I know people out there do love their flutter. I don't, it's fine. It seems fine to me. Um, react native. That's just another web one. So that's, if you're a web person again, it's, I guess it's really just, are you a web person or not? Yeah,

Speaker 3 (21:21):
I mean, well, it also is deciding, I believe, uh, I mean obviously for me I'm, um, I mean it, you know, there's, there's two things, right? I'm obviously a seizure person as Amarin person. That's where I go for everything. Whether I want to do is Xamarin forms for basically everything or I want to do, you know, non, you know, non forms UI for it. I I, that option. So obviously you're speaking to people that are a little bit biased. Uh, however, I do have to say like, you know, what are you building? Do you need, um, you know, a web and a mobile app and how much of that code do you want to share? Right. Cause if you think a react native, you're not building react native for the web, you're building a react web application, right. For blazer. I mean, you're, you, there's, there's ways of getting it into a mobile app and the PWA of sorts.

Speaker 3 (22:10):
Right. But like, do you want to go to PWA around, um, with flutter, you have iOS and Android and you have preliminary support for some other frameworks, but you know, that's custom drawing of things. It's, you know, it's not built for the ground up for web like blazer server or NBC or react or Vue JS or something like that. So I think it's really complicated in that regard and same thing with, you know, like, are you a UWP developer, then that would be the reason to go there. And if you wanted to put that UWP stuff on the web for maybe brownfield applications, um, and then also, you know, if I think that if you were just a brand new brand new student, like, let's say you don't know anything, you don't know any, any programming languages or anything like that. If I would do what I did, which was, I don't take a week or two and just kind of learn a little bit of what you can build with them and see what you enjoy, because one of them may click and you're like, alright, this is the one I'm going to go with now.

Speaker 3 (23:09):
Right. Um, I like to stick in the.net universe though, because again, I'm a, I worked for Microsoft on the dot and that team, but I like to think that what's the best cross-platform way to build apps.net because Don it runs everywhere. Right. You could also say that maybe about Java in some aspects, but like with.net, you have the ability to build the native applications, which I think is kind of what you're saying. So to me, it's, if I, when I think of, when you say blazers, Xamarin, UNO, Molly, like that's just.net stuff. Right. And then you can just pick a UI framework on top of it. So that's kind of how I think of it sometimes.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
Yeah. And especially if I'm talking to someone who's just starting out, pick the one, which has the better tool that you prefer. So like, you know, I, I learned visual basic because I fell in love with visual basic the app, not because I thought the language was particularly great or their solution set was particularly great. It was an amazing development experience. So take the one that you liked developing because you're going to be stuck in that IDE for the rest of your life. So you might as well enjoy it.

Speaker 3 (24:14):
That's a great point. Um, that maybe one reason why when moved away from Java is because I had to spend a lot of time in eclipse and I did not enjoy that. And when I moved to visual studio, I said, this is what I would like to do, please. And then I did it.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
That's literally the truth

Speaker 3 (24:31):
I had. I'd spent a lot of times in eclipse and net being net beans or whatever. And I was just like, ah, I don't want to do any of this. So yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
Oh, right. Well, speaking of things that you don't want to do, James Damien and Damien buyer's rights then, and as Jane spoke to mango, anything you'd do differently in Xamarin essentials. Now that it's well established. It's an old product. James let's face it. It's old and ancient and crafty. What kind of lessons learned do you have, for example, and in particular, and I'm really interested in this cause I have no idea what he's talking about. Do you regret unit converters, James, explain yourself. We the team

Speaker 3 (25:09):
Myself, John, Dick, Matt, um, Liebowitz. We were get regret. Nothing

Speaker 2 (25:14):
Ever james' company, man. It's flawless now. Uh, what do I, what do you,

Speaker 3 (25:22):
It would be a great question for John and Matt. I,

Speaker 2 (25:26):
What do you get the most questions about? Like, like people, what do people find most confusing? Maybe? Um,

Speaker 3 (25:34):
That's a good question. I regret, I regret not doing a few core fundamentals earlier, like permissions, um, and being a little bit opinionated on how we were going to handle permissions internally. I think that was for the greater good. Um, I, I don't, I, what I regret the most out of some of the API reviews and things that people have asked us

Speaker 2 (25:59):
Is when in APS

Speaker 3 (26:01):
Is not a hundred percent consistent, right? And we, every time we have to document that this isn't available on windows versus it works a little bit different over here instead of just not making it an option. Um, because once those bleed into the product, people want to expose more of them. And it's really hard.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
And example, you know,

Speaker 3 (26:23):
Is in the map API to launch a map and navigate to a location

Speaker 2 (26:28):
Is that's not supported by every platform. What's that? It is easy.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
However, not all of the navigation types are supported by every single platform. So, so we, we added one for like or something and like that wasn't supported on iOS at the time or windows or something. So it gets a little bit like, Oh, why isn't it working that way? Instead of just saying, listen, if it's not in all of them, it's not there. But I would think that, that, I mean, it's a hard, tough balance. Every single API, um, is tricky. Um, I would say that

Speaker 2 (27:02):
You just brought up like the hardest part of cross platform. It's do you code to the base API or, you know, the thing that's covered a hundred percent or do you tailor your app to every platform? That's just a fundamental problem we've had in cross platform that I don't see ever going away. Like how can you, it's always the compare and contrast. Some things are similar to something

Speaker 3 (27:28):
It's, it is very difficult. And, you know, I always wanted inside of this API some way to do how xamarinforms does platform specifics you can do on iOS access to this specific property. And, uh, that was always really cool. And that's really what we should have probably done. And maybe we will do that. Um, it's there that said there's other things in there, like unit converters, do we regret? No, I don't regret at all. I think they're great. What do they do? They convert one unit to another unit. Like for me, that's associates.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
Why do people not like that? What's wrong with that?

Speaker 3 (28:09):
I dunno. I think they're, I mean, it's a, anyone can add some in there and they're relatively comprehensive. And the reason we added them is because often what happens is a sensor returns like a pressure and you need it in a different unit. Like why have to calculate that? We'll just calculate it for you. So I don't regret, you know, even those, they're not the reason I think people maybe would give us flak on those API APIs is that those are not what Xamarin essentials is about, which is abstracting platform specific APIs into a common set, right? Like those aren't specific APS, iOS, Android, but I would say on the defense of that Xamarin essentials while that's its core, it's essential things that your application needs that are cross-platform, it doesn't have to be a platform specific API necessarily. We try to keep that close, but not 100%. So there's there's I don't like being in

Speaker 2 (29:08):
The position of defending you, but if the base library doesn't have it, the base library doesn't have it, like see sharpen.net are notoriously bad at numerical units. I've sharp has tried to add some things to help, but it's an old computer science problem and see sharpen.net. Don't do anything to try to help you with that problem. So it makes perfect sense in the same way. Don't you have a color class?

Speaker 3 (29:34):
Yes we do. No, we do not have to use Xamarin forms. Does we do not? Oh, okay. Right. Okay. So,

Speaker 2 (29:42):
You know, like the same way Xamarin forms had to add a color class because the silly BCL doesn't have a color class, which maybe it does now in system numerics or something, but yeah,

Speaker 3 (29:52):
That standard to it added it, but not done a standard one. Right.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
There's actually a color class in dotnet standard system. Not drawing dot color. Yeah. Oh, but that thing's a piece of junk. I'm sorry. It was designed for TDI plus a non dynamic, not good color model. I mean,

Speaker 3 (30:12):
That's very true. And in fact, we had to add like all the extension models and all the HSL things on them.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
Right? Yeah. It's good. Okay. Anyway, I'm enough ragging on for color. I could rake some color all day long. All right.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
Last one. What do you got for us, Frank?

Speaker 2 (30:28):
What do we have? Well, for some reason we are in this beta summer, we started the episode by saying neither of us are very focused. We can barely get our acts together to record a podcast. What is our beta summer strategy? James

Speaker 3 (30:46):
Socket on Twitter. We can not thank you enough for this one. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
Awesome. Great to have you, um, what is my strategy? I want to start here by saying that, Oh boy, I'm very lucky. It seems like my apps are working so far on the D DK. So my beta summer strategy is do the minimum possible, but that's not totally true because gosh, darn it. They did change a lot of the UI and Mac iOS. So I do have a bit of work ahead of me

Speaker 3 (31:17):
Or what, how are, so how are you managing it? You just, are you DTK and that's your, that's your beta? Yeah,

Speaker 2 (31:24):
It's kind of wonderful. I, I, I'm sad that I had to spend money. I hate spending money, but at the same time, if you can have two dev machines, so I don't have to ruin my dev machine by installing insane betas on it. It's so wonderful. Isn't it James, to just have a separate little computer and you can abuse it, actually, I'm trying not to abuse it too much. Cause I don't know if you can reset it. Have you tried that yet? I have no. Uh, so this year I think is probably gonna be my most organized kind of wonderful year because I'm going to have a separate dev machine. That's honestly a little bit annoying. Cause you know, I'm trying to figure out some file share and things like that to make development easier. But I really like having that separate machine and then I'm lucky that I have, uh, an extra dev iPad around. And so I put the betas on the dev iPad.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
Nice. Yeah. I, um, also, um, I'm lucky enough to go DTK route this year. Um, and because my I'll actually fun fact, my Mac book pro 2013, late 2013, it is the, it is the very, very last entry that they added that will get an upgrade, which is amazing. Um, next year though, definitely not going to get that an upgrade. Um, now I have an iPhone six that no longer gets updates. That's probably as locked on iOS 12. And I got lucky this year because I purchased an iPhone se as a trial device to see if I were going to make a switch to iOS fully or not from Android. Um, so that means I have an iPhone seven sitting around and that is going to be my new iOS 14 device. So, uh, it was a lock, right? It was, it was a lock that I had a bunch of best buy gift cards and picked up an iPhone se though $400 device.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
What a great device for beta testing in general, but I have the iPhone seven. So I will, I will use that as my iOS 14 device. And you know, when we talk about beta summers, we only really talk about iOS because my beta summer on Android is done. I don't do anything for Android. I mean it basically the apps will just work and there's not really much requirements compared to on iOS. You're on a Mac iOS. You're right. I'm really excited once we can crack in to seeing how my, um, my iOS apps run on a Mac, I am very excited to see, uh, if my inept purchases I need to like, basically I want to upgrade my applications, so they're ready. Right. So anything I want to do ahead of time. So switching over to an app purchases or making new decisions, I want my applications to be sort of ready for that day one, a Mac iOS release with the iOS applications that are just there.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
Um, so that means putting in those inept purchases and seeing how that works. But yeah, I'm, I'm going this route. I usually have two machines, my, uh, my MacBook pro and my Mac book adorable again, the Mac book adorable, stuck in quarantine and building 18. I will not be getting that back anytime soon. Um, but yeah, that, that is sort of my setup here. And I I'm really, I'm really thankful and very privileged and lucky that I was selected for this program. And, and you're right. It's, it's very nice to have this nice little compact machine over here. That's just ready to ready. It's ready for a, I mean, I have to add a dongle to it obviously, so I can plug into keyboards and whatnot, but, um, yeah, I'm, I'm really excited, uh, just to have this little machine so soccer, but I don't know if you got one, but if you did, that is the ideal way to beta that summer away.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yes. Um, you know, it's funny cause usually I put iOS, uh, the new iOS on my carry phone. Uh, I've been doing it ever since iOS seven, just, it was a joke back then because the iOS seven was beta was so bad, but I was like, I don't care. It's going to be fun. I'm going to have the beta on my phone, but this year I just haven't honestly felt a need. Um, all the real big innovations seem to mostly happen on the Mac side this year, which is kind of crazy for Apple because it's usually so iOS focused. I think you hit the nail on the head though. The real giant question Mark for me is how well my iOS apps run on Mac. And, um, we haven't been able to test that yet. And so I think that when that part is enabled and we're able to test it, um, you know, I'm not so nervous because it's just arm code, you know, it's UI kit, they say it's UI kit.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
It's going to be running just fine. But at the same time, it's a giant question, Mark it's unanswered. Uh, I think Apple has shown that they have really excellent, uh, software and technology here. This is a very impressive machine. And so I have high hopes, but it's still just such a giant question, Mark. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to be waiting and seeing, I don't know how much we can talk about when or how I literally had a tweet ready to go out. And then, uh, I said, am I allowed to tweet this Frank? And then Frank said, I don't know. So I did not. Um, so, uh, I will sorry for being cagey, but a lot of it's under NDA and we don't want to screw up. I make my living off the apps, the horror, I think it'd be pretty careful about it. Um, but yeah, this is how boy, you know, virus and everything.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
It shouldn't be the worst beta summer. I think people are just being a little more chill about everything and it should go smoothly. Uh, whereas all the wood, everyone are, you all knocking on wood for me right now. Thank you. And you are welcome. Good, sir. Uh, alright. We made it through this lightning talk round. I love it. I cannot wait for another 10 weeks, I guess until the next one. I do love these episodes. Cause they're fun. They're really, really fun. I love them. Yeah. Um, we, we always have, you know, it's hard to choose just one topic. Cause there are so many topics to choose from James. Um, but these ones are especially fun just cause it's from the listeners from you, the listener. So make sure that you write in whenever you want us to talk about something because honestly it is just more fun when we're doing a listener topic.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
Yeah, I agree. Well, you can send us your topic again, by going to merge conflict.fm. You can comp in our discord, you can send us an email or you can tweet at us. All the links are there and Hey, do something for us. You know, I know you may be stuck inside right now or you're out and about wearing a mask, washing your hands all the time. Please do that. But also how long you just maybe tell three friends or three coworkers about the pot, Hey, maybe even write a review. That's definitely helps out if all and every single one of you tell, just three friends and only 0.0, zero 1% subscribe. We'll be at an all time high because only one more subscriber will bring us to an all time high because every subscriber brings us to an all time high and we get real excited about that. We love it and we love all of you and that's going to do it for this week's podcast

Speaker 4 (38:28):
Next week. I'm Jay's Matsu Magnos and I'm practice cruiser. Thanks for listening to peace.