mergeconflict360 === [00:00:00] James: Well, ba welcome back to America, Frank. Um, Frank was on a long, uh, week and a half, two week long journey, and you didn't even know because we recorded ahead of time and he just landed and it's 9 33 on Sunday, which means that I got no time to edit this podcast and I'm really, really, really sore. Because I laid down 120 pavers in the backyard today, Frank. Ooh, [00:00:31] Frank: how houseman over here? House improvement man. That, that, that's good stuff. 120 pavers. What's that? Get you like 10 feet? [00:00:38] James: Uh, no, the, no, that was, so they're pretty big pavers. There were, uh, so in, in a row there's six of them. They're 12 by 12, two of them. And then, uh, 18 by 18, and then another 12 by 12. So, yeah. And, and that is, I guess, Uh, I dunno, nine feet by the, I don't know. It's about 30 feet or 40 feet, so it's pretty big. It's a pretty big Yeah. Uh, area. And let's just say they're not as straight as I would like them to be, but, oh, oh, well, here's what ha what ended up happening is I got about three hours into the process and I was digging, I was doing stuff, you know, and I'm, I got the tamper. And, and then I was like, I, I quit. And then, uh, and then I was like, was that for one or two? I had put down zero pavers and then, I was like, okay, I'm gonna, I, I put down the weed barrier, I got the, the sand out, and then I put down about 30 pavers. And then I was like, Heather called on Heather and I was like, should I, should I quit? This looks terrible. And then she's like, it looks amazing. And I was like, okay, God. I'm like in it, right? So I was like, I kind of gave up at trying to levelize everything, but it's good. It'll work. It, they'll settle. Still settle, [00:01:54] Frank: you know? Yeah, yeah. It rains a lot there, right? Yeah. Winter will come, the ground will soften. You'll be fine. I was. Scotland and Ireland, which turns out to be the capital of the world for gardening and lawn care and landscaping. So I think, uh, I have high standards now, so I can't wait to see some photos from you. [00:02:15] James: I, yeah, tomorrow when it's bright outside, I'll send you a photo. I'll send you the preo tonight. Uh, and then you can see the post photo. It looks good when you walk on it. Just, no, I. [00:02:26] Frank: I I'm not gonna make fun because I want to do the same thing. And if I make fun of you, mine's just gonna come out worse. So, you know what, I, I think you did a great job without seeing a darn [00:02:35] James: thing. Yeah. Had I spent the entire holiday weekend, it would've been perfect. But I spent, I did spend a long time. I spent like the entire day. So, uh, alright, well let's get into it cause it's light. I got all the questions. All right. But before we get into lightning topics, the number one, which might be a little bit longer, how much of Microsoft build did you get to see on your holidays? I was there in person. [00:02:56] Frank: Yeah. You got to see it all. Well, I, I did the YouTube approach, you know, it's the modern world. We're we're, we're covid. World now. I can watch everything on the YouTubes, uh, even better. I get, I, uh, Cena and Verge are doing the five minute, seven minute review. So I saw all 12 minutes of build. I assume build was only 12 minutes long's and I saw all of it. No, uh, I, I actually, I, I was, I was lucky I didn't get to see any sessions yet, but I did. Um, because I'm such a nerd, I had to watch the state of G P T session, little keynote there. And because I'm a Scott Hanselman fanboy, I had to watch some Scott Hansel time as he built asteroids without writing any code. So, uh, you know, I would say this is probably the worst build. I've that, that almost sounded wrong. I, I was the worst build attendee I've ever been this year. Uh, but I'll make up for it. You know, I'm gonna be jet lagged and I'm just gonna be watching videos on the tv, so it's gonna be fine. I mean, you were [00:03:59] James: on holiday, so you watched something, which is better than what I thought was gonna happen, which is like maybe just a five minute review and that's it. Now I will say, At a very high level. So I was there in person. I got to go to the pre-day, which was a workshops, and I was, uh, bopping along. I was actually in charge of the podcast booth where you and I have, uh, recorded in previously, but this year at some. Marketing was in charge of it. So marketing made it look real nice. Uh, and it looked and I tweeted it out and looked amazing. Yeah. So I was helping that out with, uh, my friend Kendall in marketing, and that was super good. But, uh, I did get to watch the keynotes, the day two keynotes, which was the Windows one, and then the closing keynote, which was the asteroid game with Mark and Scott. Here's the thing about this build. Now say what you will about there being a lot of ai, because there was a lot of ai, especially on day one and on day two there was, there was even more of it, but not to the extent of, you know, I guess the, the keynote, which makes sense. I'll say this, here's my quote. This is the most developer event. That is a developer event. Developer conference. Mm-hmm. It's like the most developer conference that I think I've been to in person and attended virtually for the most part. I was watching a lot of 'em online in a long time, since like maybe years past, like 10 years ago at Google io. Because, and I say that because compared to Google io, which for the most part those keynotes were very marketingy right now, there was plenty of marketing stuff. Mm-hmm. But when you look at. Those keynotes, right? Like a lot of that stuff that was in there was like really key and core to developers like Dev Home for example. A lot of the stuff they're doing in W S L and W S A, a lot of stuff they're doing in Windows itself. I mean, uh, the donnet podcast app merch conflict was multiple keynotes. Frank Kruer, our podcast. Because I helped with those keynote slide little things and I'm just, you know, and they're like, oh, do we have, do we have copyright to use this? I was like, yes, you can have copyright to use the logo of our podcast. Of course. But you know, I think that was really cool. Satya is talking about like deployment environments and they're talking about enhancements in VS. And they're talking about all these great AI infused stuff, obviously. But you know, I think, you know, I'm sitting here on Windows 11. I got my dev home, I got my dev drive set up. I got all my cool stuff going on. I feel like. It felt developer to me that, that, that's what I wanna say more [00:06:24] Frank: so. Yeah. Okay. I, I, I'll even say, and I, I was thinking of this myself, even though there was an AI focus, we're, we're in the year of ai. This is just how things are. Okay. Let, just let it wash over. You enjoy it. You know, we don't, we don't get our fun bubbles that often in tech. Let's, let's enjoy 'em. Um, but. All the AI stuff was around Dev stuff. Yeah. Like it's, here's how it helps you code. Now we, we, I remember when co-pilot first came out, there was a lot of naysay or anything and all that and that was just like pretty much 90% of people are on board. Cuz we're like, these are amazing tools. This is the greatest advancement in ides that we've had in the last. 10 years at least, probably more. And so even though it was ai, I, I do think it, yeah, there was a lot of dev stuff, which was good. Yeah, so good. But I gotta get into the [00:07:18] James: videos. Yeah, I mean, the whole co-pilot thing was about the co-pilot stack, right? To actually build co-pilots and integr into this ecosystem. And addition, I don't, if you watched the Windows day two keynote, it was really, really, really good. Also, we make an appearance, um, but they actually talked about, Like the latest, like onyx models and generating these things. There was a lot of.net, like it was a super.net heavy. We talked about it conference to a good extent. Showing up in keynotes and doing things and being there in person. You know, there was a, there was expert areas everywhere and there was a.net expert area and there were these d, you know, q and A sessions, and then the live sessions. So there's stuff that you could attend in a bunch of different ways and. Had good vibes all around. It's in the new, beautiful, um, conference center in downtown Seattle as well. So it's really, really pretty. Not the old one. This is the new hotness on Pine, not Pike. So, [00:08:11] Frank: Ooh. Yeah. I, I really missed out then. Hmm. It's all, I'll catch it next year. Yeah. For the ai [00:08:18] James: ar revolution one, well get to your sessions. What did you actually watch? You just need to watch them still. There wasn't any like bangers of, of sessions. No. That, that's what [00:08:24] Frank: I, that's unfortunately, I, I haven't gotten to watch the good sessions. I mostly did keynotes, just watched the keynotes and got into all that stuff, but, Uh, Marcus Eviction, Scott Hansen, some of my favorite people. So, had, had to watch [00:08:38] James: some of that. Yeah. And, and I, I think that was super fun. And the code's up on GitHub now as well, which is cool. It's all also sharp. Mm-hmm. And yeah, I mean, I, I feel like day twos. Big thing was like making windows the best place to be a developer. And they really like doubled down on that talk as well. And Panos really went into it and Wow. I kept [00:08:56] Frank: up on the Twitter and I, I did see a lot of, um, there was a lot of side eyeing from the Mac users out there, like, when are we gonna get these features? So, again, I don't, I, I, I, it, it is my lot in life to make this all about Apple, but I do, I'm really curious to see what Apple's response to all this is gonna be. Cause Yeah, yeah. Microsoft definitely Google first they beat 'em to it, but Microsoft laid it out like, here, here's how to make plugins. Like, I, I think we should do an episode on plugins, AI plugins, because, Obviously they're being pushed. We'll see if it's gonna be a successful marketplace or any of that kind of stuff. But in the very least, we gotta talk about the tech and how to build 'em and all [00:09:38] James: that. Oh, absolutely. And I'm like you, I didn't get to watch too many sessions. I went to the Maui sessions. I really wanna watch some of the cloud native stuff. Cause I know they announced a bunch of new packages, um, for building like microservices and cloud native apps. And then even the web one I still want to go to, so I need to binge, there's actually a dotnet YouTube. I created it so I know it's there. Playlist. I tweeted it out, uh, and Fowler retweeted my tweet and I was like, whoa, amazing. Uh, so that was really cool. But it was just really great. Actually, I'll say this, you know, uh, it felt really cool to see, I mean, I'm a been a remote employee forever, but it was really cool to get back in person and everyone said that over and over again. But for me it was really special because not only did I get to, you know, be at a conference live again, uh, at a, a magnitude such as Build for Microsoft, but I got to see all my coworkers and like, that was super cool. Yeah. Like, you know, and, and I gotta see most of my team, which was cool. I had the [00:10:28] Frank: FOMO because like, uh, they would do those panning shots of the audience during the keynotes. I'm like, people, audience chairs. I remember that. I remember chairs sitting in an auditorium. It's been a while, but I, I have a vague recollection of that and I had a little bit of fomo. I would've really liked to have been there. Um, yeah. Haven't heard. Um, uh, I wanted to make fun of Microsoft a little bit. There were a few points where they, uh, they had, uh, it's like, oh, this is a good time to clap audience. But I think we're just all outta practice too. Okay. Give us a break. Microsoft. We don't know how to do live anymore. You know, you're lucky we're wearing pants. [00:11:04] James: Okay. And there there is the flip of it where people would clap and they're like, oh yeah, you can clap it. You clap it up. Yeah. Oh God, I didn't know. Uh, we're just outta practice. Okay. Yeah. I am super excited for Dev WC to see what Apple does. Uh, I'm real excited for what's happening in the, the Microsoft ecosystem and the AI stuff and some of the stuff since it was presented in the world to.net. And there was a lot of other languages too. I was like, oh, cool, I wanna do this. I saw Tim Hubers actually messing around with the plug-ins already and stuff like that, so he's got some middleware already available, which is, oh geez. Um, alright, well let's get into the five questions because that was number one, was billed a little bit, but Danny Ackerman gave us five questions, so let's just jam on. I'm ready. Uh, okay. Number one. Hey Danny. Uh, pass keys versus passwords, uh, plus m ffa. And I needed to look up what PAs keys were. Um, But yes, like pasky, like you just face unlock, right? Like, that's my face. It's a [00:12:05] Frank: thing. Well, yeah, I mean, that's your biometrics. Um, I, if that's supported an app, I think all apps should support that, whether you're just a social network or not, it's just a better way to log in. Yeah, but I think, I think it's getting down to, um, do, do you want the super security of a pass key or are you okay in the password world? Um, I, I, I'm just gonna change the question to that cause I'm not sure. Um, I'll say, um, I think passwords have actually gotten more secure. Mm-hmm. Because we are all using password. Maybe, maybe I'm in a bubble, but I feel like we're all using password managers now. And it yells at you if you duplicate your, so you don't have the leak problem that we've all had in the past. That it, I have like a thousand websites. I need to change my password. And I was also burnt once by, um, you know, authentication apps and that kinda stuff. I got logged out a lot of accounts that some of them I still haven't been able to log back into. And so I'm, I'm an old timer. I still feel like passwords are fine, but I get it. The world. The world wants other things, but I loved your answer. Face id. Yeah, just do face ID [00:13:16] James: please. Yeah. You know, and people are curious what they are. So paske are a new way to sign into apps and websites I'm reading on blog.google. They're easier to use and more secure than passwords, so users no longer need to rely on names of pets, birthdays, or infamous password. One, two, three. Oops. Got changed my passwords. Instead, PAKEs lets users sign in. It's a site the same way they unlock their devices with the fingerprint face scan or screen lock pin. Yeah. You know, I think that you're right. Like I do believe that my, all my passwords have gotten way more stronger because one browsers just have things included. So even if you're not installing like one password Right. Or the other ones, um, It's included in your browser. Right? And my Microsoft Authenticator has one Chrome Edge. They all have their own password management system. They generate strong passwords for you automatically when you're signing up for stuff. Apple automatically now can use sign it with Apple, which like you don't even have passwords, you. Signing with Apple. Um, and then I think also those services do a great job of notifying you when, uh, things are duplicated or things are leaked or like, uh, through a have I been phone type of situation. So I totally agree. Um, and some people might say, well, you know, I don't want a fingerprint or a face can cause someone could get that. Well, they get your phone. If they get your phone, they're gonna get into anything. Everywhere. Anywhere. Yeah. And two factor off is, isn't is worthless if they have access to your device because. If I log into any website, it sends me an SMS or I have to do a, a Google authenticate, uh, you know, two factor off, like. If you have access to my phone, you have access to all of my stuff, right? So I'm totally into it. Um, you know, and, and sometimes things are already in the key chain on iOS. So like when I like download Robinhood or whatever, right? Or some other app that stores the tokens and all this stuff in there and it unlocks with my face. It's like, oh, cool. Like I'm accessing your secure key chain. I have the information like you're already logged in. Like, that's pretty cool. Like I uninstall the, cause I uninstall apps all the time, but it's like when I install Uber or Lyft again, like I uninstall them after every trip. I don't need them on the phone. We're gonna use 'em more. And, um, um, when I install them again, I'm up and running in five seconds after the 500 mg download, because guess what, you know, boom, it's logged in on my key chain. So I feel like it's, that's the experience that felt good for me. So I am pro. One. One more caveat [00:15:39] Frank: though. Um, okay. As an app developer, I hate running a server that stores passwords. Yeah. So like, as a user, I don't mind passwords, but as a developer I'm like, oh God, am I really gonna start storing people's passwords? So I definitely would look to alternatives as. Best you can. Yeah. But I, I think from the user's perspective, they're still, they're still [00:16:00] James: fine. You, you'll never be able to get rid of passwords. Cuz not everyone has these devices too that are super capable. There are feature phones across the globe, right? So I think it'll be an opt-in thing, just like, uh, to a, uh, mfa. So all these things are better, um, in general, right? Mm-hmm. And I also think that, uh, to be honest with you, if I log into a website, like with my Microsoft account, It'll send me a notification. I have to like face unlock and do stuff anyways, and that's my mfa. Like I'd rather an M FFA not be a random six digit code. And it's like, it's actually my biometrics, like why is it not just that? Anyways, I digress. Okay, number two, pros and cons of building mobile applications with UI on Canvas. So these are things like flutter or alon or other. Uno, other things that are drawing and not using native. He specifically said flutter, but then he said UI on campus. So I'm gonna say UI on campus. Pros and cons? Well, [00:16:57] Frank: they're the classic ones. The, for me, the con is always on input mechanisms. Hmm. So are you gonna support all the varieties of inputs that these phones have? You know, the humble text box and iOS, you tap on that thing. It has 8 billion options, 8 million ways of inputting stuff into a. It's got the microphone inputs. You can definitely re-implement all that stuff yourself, but you're constantly playing this cat and mouse game. With Apple. They introduce a new input thing. You gotta get your canvas on whatever to uh, update for it and handle it. This is why you and I both like to be little native app developers because we don't wanna. I don't wanna update my app on every iOS revision in order to get the new way to do input on a finger. And so if you're one of those new programmers out there that loves updating package references all the time, and you, you stay up to date on all those and. You love it, then may maybe it's fine. But yeah. The big con for me has always been the input mechanisms. Certainly you can do interesting things with animation, but you know what's really good at animation? Core animation. It's really efficient at it. It's hardware backed. I mean, you can write a hardware back thing. I just rewrote a new hardware back to neural network library. But you know what? It's a lot of work and it's not quite as good as, you know, the professionals that have been working on it for 20 years. Uh, it's, you're duplicating a lot of effort. You know, the, the people who build Android and iOS are professionals. We, we mock, we make fun of them because it's. Fun, and that's our job. But man, it's hard to build a UI layer. It's hard to build a good UI layer. And I, I tend to leave that to the [00:18:49] James: professionals. Yeah. And you know, I think any of that is even, you know, even having access to that stuff above the abstraction, right? You look at Donna Mountains and abstraction on top of stuff, right? So it's, there's always layers of, based on what you're building, I think nowadays, as far as like performance and other stuff goes, I'm kind of like, I don't even care anymore. Like whether it's native or drawn or web, like, you know, you can make any, we've always said you can make anything not performant. You can make anything performant, right? Like there's the capabilities of the world. So I really, I really don't, I don't care anymore. I think whatever best on your skill, your language, like how, how you wanna share code between different platforms, what are you building? Um, yeah. And then I, I agree with you. I think I look at the same thing like. As the operating systems evolve and add new features, how long do those take to come along or just get 'em for free? And then additionally, is there like accessibility features, uh, that, that you need to get access to? Right. And mm-hmm. And do those trickle down the line. And then that's sort of an important aspect, uh, for me as a developer. Uh, and for a lot of companies and organizations, I think accessibility is, is very, very important. So any, and not only just accessibility of the controls, but also. You know, the localization and globalization, uh, you know, the native operating systems have a lot of things in there. Beyond that, like there's so many of these different frameworks out there. I'm sure you'll find a language, a stack, something that speaks to you. Right? And some of them have lots of advantages. They brought on different platforms. Some of them are code first, some of them are XML first, some are AML first, some are HTML first, um, 2023. Lots and lots of options of great things that are out there. Um, but yeah, those are the, those would be the, the, the cons I guess overall, uh, pros is if you want it to be pixel perfect on every single screen, [00:20:35] Frank: Yeah, there you go. You can get that Android look and feel on iOS. It's gonna be awesome. There you go. [00:20:42] James: Uh, alright, number three. This'll be straight to you. Uh, Danny ask Danny's asking all the questions, how worried should we be about l l m ais not being able to sort fact from fiction? And this was, uh, this was three weeks ago, which means that, uh, they might be sorting fact from fiction now because things evolved so fast. Frank. [00:21:04] Frank: You just ask the om, are you lying to me? And then, you know, you just believe it. It's problem solved. No, this is, this is such a hard question because. Have you read a Wikipedia article lately? Yeah. How, how do you separate fact from fiction there? You know, it's, these lions sadly are not a black and white difference facts and fictions. You know, it'd be nice if it was, it'd be nice if there was not truthiness in the world. But sadly, there is truthiness and you have to deal with it as an adult. You have to be able to take in multiple data sources that are perhaps conflicting and come to your own conclusions. AI doesn't change that. AI is just making it a little scarier because it's becoming a one source, you know, uh, when you could say there's a thousand websites on the American Civil War, you're gonna get a thousand different opinions on the American Civil War. When you ask G p T four about the American Civil War, you're gonna get. Kind of its average decided stance on that one. Yeah. And you're gonna get a whole bunch of stuff. Uh, so it's, it's, it's a hard question. I think that always, um, the more information is spread, the more we have to be concerned with these kinds of ideas. Uh, what is truth and what is not truth. But that is a problem we've been working on ever since the information age has come out. Ever since the internet was created, anyone savvy on the internet knows that that's half your job on the internet is deciding who's trying to manipulate you. What are their biases? What are your own biases? Walking into a situation. So, yeah, it's, my, my fear is a little bit more that it's concentrated. Um, I had a tweet today where I, I get concerned with the word safety, uh, companies using the word safety because it's such a large and broad term. And what it really means is you're coming down on a philosophical ground. You are establishing an ethic. You are establishing an idea of harm and your definition of harm, and that requires a moral code and that requires an ethical code to define those words. And I get a little nervous with big doing it, deciding our culture. I think, uh, the people should decide the culture. It's just the same problem we've had forever. Just maybe a little more [00:23:31] James: concentrated now. Yeah. You know, I agree with you a hundred percent. You know, I think if you peel back the layers, well, the layers have already been peeled back. Like just browse, browse, uh, during any event. Uh, that's happening in the news and switch around to the different media outlets. They'll all give you their own interpretation of the news, right? Uh, some of them like NPR are gonna be pr fr providing themselves on facts, and others are going to be an interpretation of the facts, if that makes sense. So this is not new. Uh, in general, you're more Republican, uh, stations are gonna be more Republican. You're more liberal stations are gonna be more liberal. Like it's, there's like that's how, that's how it is. That's in the newspapers, right? If you read a more conservative newspaper or, you know, um, media, media site or follow a certain per that, there's that aspect of it. Um, and then not everything they say is, is true. Right? That's also the point too. So I agree with you a hundred percent. And, and that's like, again, I agree. It's through the history. So the question is how prolific. Will it become? Uh, yeah, and I think for me, the one thing I would say is citations. I think that's the biggest thing when the Bing Chat introduce citations is. Do your due diligence like you've always done, like your Wikipedia, you know what I do? I go to the citations and like I also look at stuff as well, and I'm looking at things and they have the little numbers and that's what the bank chat does. I think Bard is, is doing that as well now. So I think it'll evolve. So, uh, as US users will have more information and the context will be more aware and maybe even the answer is that chat, G p t that will respond is it'll, it'll incorporate the, where it got the information. So that would be kind of cool. [00:25:08] Frank: Yeah. And I also wanna throw out there that these are probabilistic machines. So if you ask it a question, you with a good user interface and app, with a good user interface, you can get 12 different responses from it, from the same question. Yeah. It's probabil, it's statistical. And so, you know, take the average of those 12. You know, don't always take its first answer. Uh, I think that's just a smart way to use it, that sadly none of the UIs are exposing. They're not demonstrating it's, uh, statistical nature enough, in my opinion, because it's multi opinionated itself. We'll get there. It can't help. [00:25:49] James: Yeah, we'll get there, I think. All right, here we go. Oh, okay. One, one, no, [00:25:52] Frank: one more quick. I gotta go. I gotta go there. If we're looking into the far out future, uh, I think no one did it better than Neil Stevenson and the book Anthem. Uh, he predicted all this and the, the, the worst case scenario is that the internet just gets flooded with misinformation. Because now it's so easy to generate stuff. We can flood the internet with misinformation. Yeah. The hopeful bounce back from that would be we would develop networks to discover misinformation and it's just gonna be a small little arms race. We've done it before. We'll do it again. I hope it doesn't come to that, but. No system is unbounded. There is always a negative feedback. There is always a positive feedback, but preferably negative feedback on systems. I feel [00:26:39] James: we're doing that. I feel like we're doing that now. There's misinformation all over the place, right. So yeah. And that they are networks. You know, like when, when Meadow was all about like trying to, you know, decipher, you know, I was reading a tweet from, uh, From Mr. Elon Musk and in it there was, uh, citations of how it was inaccurate, and then there was automated responses to it and community responses to 'em that were tailored about how. Uh, not only was it misleading, but also false in many, many ways. So there you go. So, I mean, these, these, these systems are in places of pe People just like a, a person can say anything they want. So can the AI to some extent, uh, how secure or not is most encryption seeing what we're talking about, uh, the 2 56 and MD five hashing and all this goodness. Yeah. [00:27:32] Frank: Uh, how secure is it? I, it's pretty dang secure, you know? Um, since pretty smart people invented it. Yeah. Depends [00:27:39] James: on the encryption. Has it been cracked? I don't know. Well, [00:27:43] Frank: Very few have been cracked. Uh, mostly the cracks are people's mis implementation of them and or a bug in a, you know, an open SSL bug or something like that. The algorithms themselves are pretty darn sound. I mean, maybe the 1 28 ones are, they're, you can crack them maybe. But you, you bounce yourself up the 2 56 bit and we we're talking entropy of the universe stuff here. And so without like a bug in your implementation, it's pretty darn secure. Especially all your like, uh, private, public key exchanges, that kind of stuff, that, that algorithm's tight, that, that you're not gonna break that algorithm. You, it was designed to prevent men in the middle and that kinda stuff. So I'd say the biggest problem with encryption is, and this sadly, is becoming even more prevalent, everyone rolling their own. So like Jot came out JW T and Jot was a little bit annoying to implement, so everyone implemented it themselves. And there's buggy versions of Jot everywhere. And so is that, is that the security of the encryption or is that the security of the terrible software we developers write? I dunno. Um, the algorithms though, I feel like are very [00:28:59] James: strong. Yeah. And also at the same point, you know, I think that. People also need to take advantage of these new, uh, forms of encryption too. So a good example of this is I just got a new wifi router. Um, this is a Orbi Pro, and I'm very, I, I bought, uh, I bought them and I bought satellite and I'm, I'm really enjoying it. It's a nice, uh, hardware. It has all the latest features, like it's modern. It just came out like this year. It has all the wizbang features. And out of the box, the default is just a, a wpa, a two, uh, yeah. Thing for most of them. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. I was going through the settings and then, then I was like, there's a WPA A three, which is the wifi, um, uh, protect protected access. WPA three actually came out. Um, Five years ago basically, or something like that. Okay. Uh, the certification may began in 2018. WPA three itself is now mandatory for all new devices, but a lot of these iot devices aren't there. They do have fallback, but this is the 2 56 mode basically. Right. Um, up updating, um, There, the new standard says uses 192 bit encryption, which is AEs 2 56 in GCM mode with a Shaw 3 84 in H Mac. So, uh, what I didn't realize, and then actually when I flipped it on my windows, been, uh, PC connected to the the network and it was like, Hey, Just wanna let you know there's literally notifications like your wifi is more secure and more fast than ever because you have WPA three. I was like, whoa, I didn't even know this existed because the time I'm, who was keeping up with wifi standards Now I did have to turn on like the backwards, compact mode cuz you can do WPA three mix mode. So you get all your iot devices, but these new routers actually have isolation. So all my iot devices are on a separate S S I D with the mix mode, and then all my modern devices are on a, a standard one, which is cool. So again, Are your devices implementing the latest, uh, encryption in security is are, do you have hardware that is, can take access to that? And then same thing with software, right? Are we taking advantage of the latest stuff or are we just, you know, um, haw. Yeah. MD fiveing, uh, things for, for no good reason. I still [00:31:11] Frank: m empty five MD five s a fine hash. Okay. Ifs a get hash. People are actively attacking you. MB five's fine everyone. It's fast. It's fine. Um, I, I just, I, I have to throw in, I love your example of the. I don't know if they're still doing it today, but the last router I bought. Yeah. Yeah. They add all this beautiful encryption stuff and everything to it. And then they enable this thing called like W P s. Yeah. Which is literally a seven digit code, not alpha numeric digit that you can rainbow attack in approximately three seconds and break into anyone's router. And everyone's router has it turned on everyone. Turn off w p s Let me tell you, it's, it's not trivial to hack. It's a joke of, it's, it's like baby's first hack is break into a router with W p s. Okay? So please turn it off. This, this goes back to my thing like, yeah, it's great. Our encryption is wonderful, and then we. Undermine it with all this [00:32:10] James: Ps but I can go to my, my printer Frank and I can click, click at one button and it'll connect automatically. No password to type it. So secure. Last question. Uh, and I, and I'll kick off this one cause I have a great one, uh, which is full self-driving. Ever a question mark vehicles, I'm assuming, cuz I, I self-drive myself around the city all the time. Um, nice. Now I have a friend that lives in Phoenix and he recently, uh, took a Waymo self-driving, fully autonomous one, no person in the car from his house to the airport. Um, h how do you think that went, Frank? [00:32:52] Frank: I feel like that program's been running for a while now, so I'm guessing it went perfectly. Maybe, maybe a little disorientation in the beginning, like maybe you think you're being kidnapped. [00:33:03] James: Mm-hmm. But until that point probably. Okay. Uh, So I think that that is fairly accurate. I think after the being in the, in the car and getting used to no person being there, I believe the overall experience of my friend would say subpar and here's why. Uh, one who hasn't expanded yet. So there's a lot of things. So one, it expanded to a region where he could get picked up and he'd get dropped out of the airport. The problem is, uh, after he got in the car, Waymo's, they don't go on the highway. So in Phoenix it decided to take the back road all the way, does not do it, uh, all the way. And it likes to stay in the right hand lane. It doesn't really want to merge very actively. And what he mostly said is it's almost being overly secure. So it's very almost, uh, not jarring. It's, it's not like it's slamming on the brakes, but it's, it's a more subtle stop than you would like for it to do. And when you're taking back roads and not the highway. It's quite often additionally because self-driving vehicles cannot drop off people at the airport. It dropped 'em off at the shuttle to get to the airport, uh, in general. So instead of taking an Uber with a person or driving, take about 30 minutes, it took almost an hour to get to the airport. Yeah. And he had to pay for it. And he had to pay for it. We didn't have to tip. That was a good thing. He didn't have to tip anybody. Uh, but he did have to pay for it. So that, that's, I don't know. It'll probably happen. Why not? It's the Jetsons. Well, I guess they did. They had to drive themselves, but. This Jetsons, as you know, we'll be flying. Right. Some wasn't somewhere like sipping [00:34:38] Frank: coffee and not really paying attention though. [00:34:41] James: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right. He, I think he was, yeah, George was definitely doing that. Yeah, you're right. I'm gonna just rewatch [00:34:48] Frank: intro. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I might be making that up. I haven't seen it since I was five. Um, I, I, I've had this discussion for the last 30 years I feel like. Um, I've always been down. Absolutely. It's happening. I think everyone was a little too optimistic with the early timeframe. I grew up working in car companies. I know how slowly they move. Not only that, I know how slowly the government moves. I know how regulations work. You know, we have been trying to put digital rear view mirrors on cars for the last 20 years and they're just not there. Yeah, they're not there for many reasons cause mostly safety and government and so it's, it's. It's always gonna be slower than we want it to be. Definitely slower than Elon is gonna say. It's gonna be. Yeah. Um, it's a little sad that they're overly conservative. I guess that makes sense. I. It's a computer. It could, it could outrace anyone on that road. It, it, it will, it will pull four Gs and do the turn. It can do that. Yeah. Um, so this is all just safety and liability [00:35:56] James: stuff. Yeah. And like you said, it takes time to roll out these things, especially on mass scale. I mean, look at just EV rollout, right? I mean, and even is that technology we were talking today, it's like, well, if we went to this big hike that was a hundred and. 80 miles a away or so from our house. We, we, it was a eight, eight mile hike to see all these falls and it was really beautiful. There was four EV chargers at the state park. I was surprised there was any, but yeah. Um, you know, where do we charge a car, right? I mean, so even to that aspect, right? Like, how does that roll out? How do I get a self-driven car to take me all the way to this thing? What does it do? How do I get back? So there's a lot of these, uh, things to think about in general as things go on. But yeah. Uh, you know, 20, maybe 20, 40. [00:36:40] Frank: 45. Yeah. You know when I was first making my guesses was back in like 2004 and I was saying by the 2030s we would have fully autonomous, but here in the year of 2023, I'm like, I dunno, I might have, I thought, cause everyone else was saying like 2015 and all these other numbers, I'm like, no, that's not happening. I was saying 2030 and now I feel like even I was being a little [00:37:04] James: optimistic. Yeah. That being said, my friend did take a fully autonomous vehicle. Yes. To the airport in 2023. And that's kind of mind boggling like that happened. It was, yeah. Maybe not the greatest experience in the entire world, but he did it. Did that happen? [00:37:20] Frank: Yeah. Yeah. What did the, uh, I, I'm curious what the shuttle driver had to say after they got picked up. Yeah. Does the shuttle driver feel like, yeah, I'm the last mile. Yeah. And that's my lot in life. I'm gonna be driving the last one mile for all these stupid [00:37:34] James: autonomous cars. That'd be funny. Well, actually, you know what? I think it's not even a shuttle. I think it's a air, air taxi that he's autonomous already. Like, you know the thing. So it was going from one autonomous source to another autonomous source. A less [00:37:47] Frank: trustworthy robot to a more trustworthy robot. [00:37:50] James: Yeah. Tho Now those autonomous vehicles, you know, those, those, those, uh, monorails on Rose? Yeah. You can't mess that up. Uh, alright, well if you're interested in writing into the show and getting your lightning topics in, cause we do this every 10 episodes, go to merch conflict fm, you can tweet at us at Merge conflict fm. You can email us. You can hit up me or Frank on, uh, Twitter or wherever we're at, or leave comments anywhere, on any place that we post anything. But that is gonna do it for this week's merge conflict. I'm gonna add this puppy up. Oh, we are gonna get a whole yeah. Bunch of sleep for the holiday day. Uh, but that's gonna do it for this week. So until next time on James Monte Magno. And I'm [00:38:28] Frank: Frank Krueger. Thanks for listening. [00:38:30] James: Peace.