mergeconflict273
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[00:00:00] James: We got more devices. 

[00:00:13] Frank: Oh yeah. It's that time of year beta summer's over. That means we finally get some new devices. It's the fall fall. The devices are falling at. Okay. I'm bad at this. We got new devices 

[00:00:24] James: that devices are falling. Wow. That is. That is a that's amazing. I really, I really, really liked this.

Yes, don't push 

[00:00:35] Frank: it. We got surface duo too, which do well to th does that bother anyone else? Anyway, it's a gorgeous device. We need to talk about it, James, because it lives on Microsoft event. And we love talking to apple events. I love talking to apple events, but sometimes Microsoft releases some good hardware and we got to give some 

[00:00:54] James: props and talk about it.

Yeah, I'm super jazzed on. You know, there's things that I know there's things that I don't know about, obviously. Um, but I'm, I'm, super-duper, super-duper impressed by all of the crazy stuff that, that Microsoft announced on. We're recording on the 22nd. So obviously, you know, we're a few days late dollar short, but at the same time, there's a whole lot of hardware that happened.

And it's always fun when you know, we're not only getting laptops, we're also getting phones. We're also getting, um, new pens or also getting. Uh, this really cool service, adaptive accessibility kit, which is really cool. We'll talk about, um, what do you want to talk about? The event was really well-produced really well done.

Panas is being panel showing off cool stuff. 

[00:01:41] Frank: Okay. That's where we always start. We got to give a review of the media presentation, you know, abstract, uh, content. Um, what was the gentleman's name? Pannay okay. Panels. He was fantastic. He was ringleader number one, I could've watched him all day. It was only a 45 minute event, but he really stole the show there.

And it was really great having him, uh, walk everything through. What's his position I missed, I missed his introduction, I guess. 

[00:02:09] James: Uh, Hannah knows Pinay is his last name C so you're Hannah Hannah's. Uh, Hanno is, is the chief product officer for windows and devices at Microsoft. 

[00:02:22] Frank: That sounds like a big title.

Okay. Yes. Yeah, he was great. Uh, I want to talk about the surface duo too, because it reminds me a lot of the old Microsoft courier thing and it made me actually think a lot about iOS 15. See, I can always bring it back to apple if I just try hard enough, I can I'll make that make sense later. Uh, but I'm a little nervous because honestly I don't have much experience with the surface one.

So I'm sure a lot of the things that I find striking. Frank it's been around forever. Just go get a duo. Uh, but I just want to talk about it cause that's a really cool device. It's a dual screen device and I have just been begging apple to do this for, for awhile. Uh, for my iPhone. I just want a screen on both sides of the phone.

I don't, I don't think it's a big ask, right? Why not a phone with two screens? It's not that big, but really, um, the last couple of years, I just, I haven't even bought a new iPhone, just. Well, the 11 pro is the perfect iPhone ever created. So I just haven't seen any reason to upgrade from it. And then Microsoft comes walking in with a surface duo to whether it's flipping anus and with, you know, video playing on one side and scrolling through the web on the other side.

And yeah, you can do side-by-side apps on the iPad, but I don't know. Physical distinction just helps my OCD brain. You know, I don't like arranging windows on a desktop. It's why I'm able to use a laptop very well because I do everything full screen, not literally full screen, but you know, pretty much full screen.

I hate organizing windows. It's just not something I like. So the idea of the separate screens that are creating their own distinct workspaces, I just love that kind of organizational thing. I like that it folds into a little like pocket Percy thing. It's really cute. And I think. Smaller. I don't know. It, it still looks a little big to me.

What do you think? Do you love the duo as much as I do, and it's all just hypothetical in my head. Cause I don't know. 

[00:04:17] James: Well, I am holding the surface one in my hand currently. You're not under the surface due to, I obviously did not get that, but this isn't, I have an early, a near final prototype of the first one.

That's indistinguishable is running the latest software. So it's not like running anything crazy. Cool. Uh, you know, I. Uh, have really just gotten my hands on it recently. Cause it was, it was locked away in my office for a long time and I escaped from it and two weeks ago, or so Craig, who is on the service, do a team.

We know Greg done, uh, he's on the service, do a team, um, for developers and he came onto my life. And we added dual screen to support to my, my Caden's application. And that was really fun because it was really easy to do. And we got to talk a lot about a lot of features that were coming out. Um, or they've come out and what developers think and how Microsoft sees the device?

Uh, I really like it. I, I, I do think that it's like a real big productivity tool and Microsoft here in the service event showed off a lot of what you're talking about. This side-by-side, um, screen. I liked what they were talking about with, um, for example, The teams calls where you have the presentation on one side that someone's may be sharing a PowerPoint on the right-hand side, you see everyone's faces.

Uh, they also talked about, you know, you can take notes on it, you can scribble on it, but you still have the full meeting going on. You can drag and drop stuff, or, you know, a good example is your. You know, on your emails, you have all of your lists on the left-hand side, full, full, not, not small. And then you have the email on the right hand side.

Uh, and I think more than anything, the duo and the duo to also for X-Box gaming with, uh, X cloud, you can use it as a full game controller and play the full game, which is pretty bananas, but honestly, the biggest thing for the service due to. Is that one, the design has been super refined here and I'm going to talk about this heavily, but they, I like the black color.

Ooh. I'm just in love with X. I have a white here, but they rounded the corners more. They get the screens more edge to edge. Um, and two big wins, um, that we can talk about. One is the camera's and the other one is that just like the new apple, watch the surface, do a two rounds, those corners, and then Microsoft.

Really cool things, which has put information on the hinge on that thing. Yeah. 

[00:06:47] Frank: I kinda love it. I love it. It's such a good little trick thing. So yeah, we were talking about, um, the galaxy edge, I guess, was kind of the first one to do it where you round out that corner, but no one was doing, I think, interesting with that rounded out corner.

This is the first time I saw they were putting like notification overviews, basically. So if you know, you have some messages sitting there, some males sitting there. Teams. Um, I would never put a teams notification on my phone, but sure. Microsoft sure. I'll put that there. And they're color coded and you can see it from the edge.

I love passive UIs like that. One of my, um, most favorite old fashiony, uh, phones had a little old led screen on the outside. Remember when they used to put two screens on phones back in whatever times. Oh yeah. I, I used to love those passive things and it was a real loss that the iPhone didn't get it. In fact, I love them so much that when the apple watch came out, that has the always on screen.

I got it because of that. What apple doesn't tell you in the always on screen is it's always on, but blurry. And doesn't tell you when. It's the most useless, always on screen. So at least in this case, the always on is providing something and hopefully it's not like killing your battery or anything like that.

It's a really clever feature. I did have to laugh a little at the video. I have to take my little petty little shots here. They're like, oh, and they're color coded. And then they had to have them come up with the identical color. Oh, that's not color coded Microsoft. But aside from that, yeah, those are super cool.

So w what was it about these rounded corners? I like rounded corners. 

[00:08:20] James: Well, I think that the, the corners even more just rounded and just more edge to edge, the actual screens that are a little bit bigger. But to me, I just thought it was really cool that they, like you were saying, they go under, they show you notifications.

And to me, that was just a really nice touch, I thought overall, because when you on the surface do it today, when you close. There's nothing on the front or on the back, right? There's not, when you're on your iPhone, you can turn it on, you can click on it and you can see the time. You can see a bunch of information.

And I just thought it was clever that they use that area as a little display sensor. There are no other displays on, on the duo, right? So they use these little hinges, which again, I love these hinges and there's a distinction that, you know, there's, it's, it's a foldable dual screen devices. Devices out there are foldable, but not dual screen.

And it's a distinct difference. Like there is a gap in the middle and developers need to kind of account for that. And the OSTP does some stuff, but it gives you that real estate where those hinges are really nice. I just love the hinge. It feels really good. They're very firm. They, it really stays put and yeah, they did.

I thought they made use that real estate. Yeah. The other biggest part to me is, is that camera system is they, they let the first surface do it, does not have a camera on the back. There's only one camera selfie camera. And that was what it got dinged on originally, but it wasn't what it was trying to be.

But now with this. It seems like it's really going all out premium device. I mean, it starts at $1,500, so no joke. Um, but 

[00:09:56] Frank: you jumped to the end there. I was about to ask you how much this thing is going for, because I, as thinking about pre-ordering it. Oh, It looks like a really sexy device. I wanted one, uh, but I couldn't figure out a pre-order it.

So now you ruined it. You told me how expensive it is. I don't think about it. Um, I do want to talk about the cameras, but I have to go back to the hinge real quick, just sorry, just as a neophyte. Um, it does allow the phone to flip into kind of closed mode and screens on both sides mode. It's a full hinge.

You can flip it either way. Is that correct? Okay. 

[00:10:29] James: Yeah. All the way around. I 

[00:10:32] Frank: mean, that gives me what I want. It gives me my two screen phone. It's going to be thicker obviously than what I want, but yes. Okay. What a nice device. I wish I was shopping for a new phone. Okay. So how many cameras are saying have, cause I saw at least two or three lenses on the back and it has a bump.

Now I'm assuming the old one didn't have a bump, no bombs. But, um, yeah, th th this is where competition between Microsoft and apple is great because apple keeps promoting their wonderful lenses and cameras. They keep putting on their phones, which, you know, they really are wonderful. So it's good to see.

Microsoft having to keep pace. And I'm really hoping that this one's going to scare apple because they're going to see that, you know, there are some form factors out there that are good. 

[00:11:20] James: Yeah. This one, it has the triple lens system, of course a selfie on the front, but the triple lens system has the wide angle.

It has the, all the, basically all the things, um, and it can shoot 4k video across two screens. But I think the demo that I saw that. Uh, wanted me over is that they, they took a photo, they opened it up and they took photos. And as you were taking photos, it showed you an instant preview on the left-hand side, where today it goes down on the bottom.

You know, you take a picture, you go to the bottom and you click on a thing, goes over here, but you see the photo as soon as you take. Um, whereas yeah, this thing has, let me see the camera's on here. So triple lens system, I'm curious 

[00:12:04] Frank: if it's a ultra wide, Apple's been putting the ultra wides on lately so wide.

Why does kind of funny, yeah. Wide, 

[00:12:12] James: wide ultra wide and a tele. 

[00:12:16] Frank: Darn that, that that's cool. That's great. I, you know, when we went to telephoto as our second lens in the industry, and I'd always thought that was neat, but like, okay, I'm zooming into something. I don't really need to zoom in it's that ultra wide that's the game changer that enables like cool video conferencing stuff that enables a video.

Kind of like movie modes. Aren't especially interested in ultra wide because I love robotics and ultra wide is what you need. If you want a robot to see the environment. So every time I'm just like waiting for all these phones, that'll have ultra wide cameras to get cheap so I can start throwing them on robots.

Oh, that's so exciting. 

[00:12:56] James: Yeah. My favorite part is that everything actually, uh, when I'm looking at the tech specs on the website, everything is, uh, it's like for all the sensors, like dual accelerometer, dual gyroscope, Google, and the Enlite sensor. Cause there's like two of them glued two 

[00:13:13] Frank: phones together is what you're telling 

[00:13:14] James: me.

Well, I mean, I mean the, the hinge is tiny. Like there's obviously a ribbon communicating between them. That's theirs. It's in there. It's got one thumb, thumbprint. Um, so that's it. So, 

[00:13:30] Frank: yeah. Good. Now, um, remind me, this is windows. Are windows 10 running on arm or is a somehow an Intel 

[00:13:38] James: processor? No, this is Andrew.

[00:13:41] Frank: Oh, it's Android. James. I see, I see your tricks, Microsoft. Okay. So we have Android apps running on windows, and now we have a cast. I can't call it a windows device. We have surface devices running Android. Oh, the world is just too confusing for me. I see. So my next followup question, you just answered, but I'm still going to ask it because I asked on Twitter and no one would answer me no chance of getting visual studio to run on here then.

Is there 

[00:14:11] James: a way you could use code spaces? 

[00:14:13] Frank: Ah, good point. Good point. So visual studio code can run on there. Okay. Funny. Yeah. Yes. 

[00:14:20] James: So that was, that was the biggest thing, right? Is because, um, when the duo launched, it was the first device. That, um, Microsoft put out that Ryan Android and, you know, then the other thing that they showed there too, is there's this app on windows called my phone.

And what that enables you to do is get notifications and messages and photos, and interact with apps and things on your phone. I think what they showed today was that you can like drag and drop stuff and do a bunch of other interactions on the MyPhone. Yeah. On it. I don't know what all they put on it, but they showed a bunch of new features basically with windows 11, where that kind of comes to life.

So it doesn't seem to be on the marketing page for it. But that was another thing too, is that windows 11 and Android devices play really nice together. And then obviously windows 11, you're gonna be able to run Android apps on windows 11, like you said, too. So there's this ecosystem, uh, spring over there.

[00:15:18] Frank: Yeah, I totally misspoke. I think I said windows 10. I meant to say windows 11. Uh, yeah, I'm excited for this. You, you, you mentioned the magic words drag and drop there. So we have to do a little technical deep dive right now. Like I have to pick your brain a little bit, because that is the, uh, thing that I was going to use as my crossover to iOS 15, because something that happened on the iPhone with iOS 15 is the iPhone got drag and drop between apps.

Yeah. Yeah, which used to just be an iPad feature and because it was just an iPad feature. Absolutely. No one implemented it, so it just doesn't exist yet. So I think now that the phones support, drag and drop, uh, we mobile app developers yet again, going to have to up our game to support random technology, including drag and drop.

Uh, speaking for myself, I have not done a good job of implementing drag and drop in my apps. I do have a few. Like the circuit apps, it's a little bit obvious, like elements should be able to drag in and out of the apps and across windows and things like that. But I designed those apps in such early days, long before even a iOS had drag and drop that I have like my own systems in there and everything.

So this is all my long-winded way of saying, I need to update, upgrade my drag and drop game here because a iOS 15 is doing it. So I have to do that. But. It was a major feature in this duo, at least in the demos of dragon content between those two screens. And obviously people are going to want to do that.

The moment you split the content, you're going to want to merge the content. That's just how it works. So, and drag and drop seems to be the user interface, metaphor used for that. So all my questions begin here. Are they doing a Android drag and drop, or is that a part of the dual screen support for the device?

The drag and drops? That's a 

[00:17:10] James: good question. I think it's built, I mean, that says a dragon drop between applications is a feature of Android all up, just like windows. Like there, they have some similarities there. So I think that that is just a feature of it. Now, there are some like a dual screen SDK, um, I don't know exactly there.

Like obviously, like there's things like detect the hinges and different things like that that are built in, but you know, the, the duo team, I think works really, really close with the Google and they like pack things into Android and other things like that. So I'm not exactly sure how much is a.

Specialty stuff, but of course, like this has its own launcher and things like that. So definitely Microsoft could be adding some stuff in Samsung does that too. They add special stuff that just improves the API APIs that are built into developers. Don't have to do anything, but there are things that developers have to do, like add, drop it, drag and drop to their apps.

So even in Xamarin forms and dinette Maui, there's a dragon. Um, API and it uses the native API. So for example, if you're using Xamarin forms and add a drag and drop to it and element, it would light up an iOS 15 or on a, on your, on your duo or things like that, or just Android. 

[00:18:25] Frank: Okay. So I definitely have to update my drag and drop game.

I think we're going to have to do a whole episode on it. I know we did a drag and drop episode, but I personally need a refresher, so I need to do some homework and we should do an episode just on drag and drop because it's becoming pretty important. It was important, an iPad. And especially when you're bringing your iPad stuff over to Mac or something that through catalyst, you expect the desktop apps to support drag and drop.

So it's becoming one of those things. We all have to make sure we implement. Anyway, I didn't mean to derail us too much. I just noticed that, you know, it was a big part of the presentation, especially going between those two screens. Now, does the duo also have a pen or was that the, a surface book that. 

[00:19:09] James: It totally has a pen now, which is super cool.

Yeah. There's a pen. I don't know if it ships with it, uh, in general, but yeah, it has these, what do they call the screens dual sense or something like that or something? 

[00:19:23] Frank: A great name. They were like pixel sense of 

maximum. 

[00:19:27] James: That's what it is pixel sense. So these are pixel sense screens and actually the cool part about it is that the, um, the.

The little, uh, pencil snaps on right to the, the, the surface duo. So you can just write on it and take it with you with magnets, which is really close to what they showed in the demo as, oh, I'm in a teams call. Of course, there's a lot of teams in here and I use teams every day, but, uh, there's like a whiteboard session or you can imagine drawing out a PowerPoint.

You just like pull out the pen and then bingo. Bango. You're good to go. So I thought that was pretty neat. 

[00:20:00] Frank: Yeah. And they've learned the lesson that these pens really have to integrate into the device. I think Microsoft has actually been pretty good about this, but they were definitely taking shots at apple.

I think they said like, you can actually find your pencil, things like that. I'm like, okay. Okay. And they're like, and it's actually charged. And I'm like, yeah, yeah. Okay. My pencil is always dead. Yeah. Yeah. You got me in Microsoft. 

[00:20:22] James: That was, that. That was good for the surface. Uh, the surface pro. Uh, I thought that there was some genius, uh, marketing and phrases there.

I thought that was so good. Just, just in general. I was like, wow. Okay. Like, yeah, that makes sense. That's where you would put the pen. 

[00:20:40] Frank: What you want to dangle it off, sticking out from one end while it's charging. Oh, no, I'm sorry. You can't charge when the pencils connected. Yeah. Also I'm talking about old tech, obviously they've been pretty active with the iPad pro.

Anyway, am I forgetting anything for the duo? Cause I kind of want to talk about the laptop. Now. 

[00:20:57] James: Yeah, let's do it. So there's well, there's which one? There's a, there's a surface, the surface laptop studio. And then there is a surface pro. 

[00:21:08] Frank: X pro oh boy. Oh, surface pro X one. 

[00:21:12] James: There's a service go three as well.

[00:21:16] Frank: I want to talk about the cool one that almost looks like a surface go attached to a laptop because it's true. I think that's the studio because he can actually pull the screen towards you and a little kickstand comes out like on the us. So 

[00:21:31] James: let's okay. That's the laptop studio. Let's do a quick, uh, quick cause other ones are good.

Right? So there's a, there's a surface pro eight. Now that is the one that's a detachable two in one, uh, that comes with a 120 Hertz, a 13 inch display Thunderbolt four. Um, that one has that one has the, I think that one has the pen hidden pouch. Is that the thing? No, that's the new one. And then, so that's that right?

So there there's this there's there's that one in there. So that's more surface pro. Okay. And 

[00:22:03] Frank: help me again, is that Android or windows? 10 armor. Intel. Okay. 

[00:22:08] James: Okay. 

[00:22:09] Frank: Or windows 11 now. Cause they kept saying these aren't windows 11 devices. 

[00:22:13] James: Everything is windows 11. That is correct. So cool. Surface duo. Frank, this has a Snapdragon eight.

That is a arm 64 arm, 64 based device running Android, everything else? No, not everything, but the S the, the surface devices, the R R okay. Dang it. Okay. It's a little complicated. The surface pro surface pro X 86, the surface go, which is an adorable device that I have the first one of x86. Okay. The surface pro X ARM-based windows.

Wow. Right. Okay. Now the surface laptop studio is I think it's an x86 device. 

[00:23:08] Frank: Got it. Okay. Okay. So it sounds like we have three Intel device and two arm devices, one laptop arm, one awesome surface. Arm and a bunch of Intel's. Cool. Cool. Cool. Yeah. I mean the go w we don't need to say anything about the go or then it's adorable and wonderful.

I have one also it's believe it or not my main windows development machine, which I don't recommend. It's actually not the greatest, at least my version. I think I have probably a pretty old one at this point, but, uh, I would probably get the studio 

[00:23:45] James: for a developer laptop studio. Yes, because there is a surface laptop, but this is the surface laptop studio.

Okay. 

[00:23:55] Frank: Studio studio. What do you get for that studio? You get that cool transforming thing that Microsoft has had on their tablets. Gosh, since 2004, where you can actually lay down the monitor and it acts kind of like a tablet, but my biggest thing that I love about that studio. Laptop studio, studio, laptop.

I'm never going to be able to get it right. It's they got rid of that hinge. The hinge that I hated on the surface, uh, the previous surface laptop, the previous one had, it was probably a clever hinge, but it never looked like a fully closed. It kind of just curled over and it always kind of bothered me. I was always a little bit afraid of it, but.

Done crazy things with this current hinge where it goes up into laptop mode, all normal, like, and then you can pull it forward for crazy movie watching mode. I don't know what that's for, or then I am getting old and I appreciate being able to pull things closer to me. So I actually really love that feature.

And then you can fold it a second or third time and lay it down flat. And I just thought that's nice because. Honestly, laptops feel pretty old fashioned. If all they can do is swivel that monitor up and down. So I really appreciate it. Their hinge design here, and I'm not, I don't know. It sounds so silly saying I really liked their hinge design, their.

But it's true. Like, um, I love my iPad because it's easy to carry around. It's light it, it fits into my arm. And when I'm using a laptop, it just feels kind of old. And fuddy-duddy especially a Mac laptop because they haven't changed in 8,000 years. So I I'm, I'm here for this hinge innovation. 

[00:25:32] James: Yeah. This device is not on, I mean, cause the thing is, it looks like a laptop.

In general, but then you're right. It transforms and there is something called a surface studio and that's more like an iMac, but even bigger. And it lays down and does crazy things. That's that's in that vein. It's huge. Um, and that's more for like designers or, you know, that has all these other things on it now you're right.

The crazy part about this is that it is a powerhouse, right? It is running 11th to gen, um, quad core Intel CPU. It is also, um, up to 32 gigs of Ram, uh, obviously, which is very, very nice. And then the GPU is a, um, uh, it was a G-Force TEI 3000 series. Let me, let me just confirm on GPU graphics. I'm typing it in here.

Graphics. It is a. So by default on the model, which you shouldn't get, but you should probably just get the model, but it has the, no, that is the Iris X graphics from Intel, but the models have a G-Force GTX 30, 50 TEI GPU with four gigs of GDPR, G D D R six, GPU memory, which is bananas. Um, and this is nice because it also has a Thunderbolt four.

It has a headphone Jack, which is kind of crazy. And then this one. Connect or dot I'm on it too, but you know, it has wifi six. It has the latest Bluetooth that has a 10 NDP front resolution facing camera with windows. Hello technology. It has dual far-field studio microphones. It has Dolby, Atmos speakers built into it.

It has a gyro. It has an accelerometer, ambient light sensors that as a. You know, this beautiful 14.4 inch pixel sense a technology, right? With the pen that folds and tucks in underneath it. So it's charging while you're go with the magnets. Super-duper nice. And it's under four pounds, but it is a stunning device and you're right.

I think to me, I am not see, I'm not, I like my surface go, but I. I don't, I'm not a big fan of flappy keyboards and on the, on the iPad, not a fan on the surface, you know, um, uh, go, it's fine, but here's the, I like a real keyboard and this gives me the flexibility to be a laptop or be a, uh, uh, a tablet or be this sort of.

What are you a theater mode addition, which is like, I'm going to watch Netflix and it's, you know, I'm not going to accidentally type on the keyboard when I do stuff and I have the full touchscreen on me. So it is a pretty fantastic. 

[00:28:21] Frank: Yeah. And Scott Hanselman got to show it off. So who doesn't always love that part of the show and Scott Hanselman was in the coolest workshop ever.

I was so jealous of what, whatever workshop, if that Scott's. W jealous. Hi, beautiful drawers, beautiful cabinetry. All the drawers are labeled as reading the labels. Oh, what a beautiful lab. Okay. Back to the computer that, uh, I have no idea what a 30 50 is, uh, RTX did or whatever they called it. I know, I just spent an ungodly amount of money for a 30, 80, 30, 90.

Nope. I got the 30, 90, oh gosh. Now I don't even know what I got anyway. I paid way too much money for it. So it's kind of funny thinking that they're trying to put what was basically a desktop class processor in it, what maybe three or four years ago into a laptop. So that is kind of insane. I'm curious about how the switching from the, uh, internal embedded GPU.

And the external GPU. I wonder if they do any of that clever switching, because I know Mac does that a lot where they try to run some software on the internal one to save power and then, uh, yeah. Use the GPU for other stuff. Do you know, uh, how windows handles all that, like from an app developer point of view or from an OSTP point of 

[00:29:43] James: view?

I don't know. Yeah. I have no idea. To be honest with you. I'd have to try it out to tell you. Yeah, I think that 30, 50, it is a laptop GPU, but I don't know where that ranks as far as the desktop GPU, but they're the base of this machine is, is thicker than like the, like a Mac book, air, something like this.

Uh, it's probably more comparable to like a MacBook pro maybe even a little bit thicker. Because of the trans formability, I'd have to look at the height on it, compare side by side, but it is very nice. I just also like the three by two aspect ratio. I think that's a great rate ratio. It's my favorite ratio, apple.

Hello. So good. It makes more sense to, huh? Resolution 2,400 by 1600. It makes logical sense. It makes on the laptop 1920 by 10 80 garbage resolution on a laptop. I think that the Mac books are not 1920. Like there they are a 16 by nine. There, but the three by two aspect ratio is the ideal scenario for that.

[00:30:42] Frank: And it was smaller on profile than the old curvy hinged, whatever that old surface one was called, because Scott was good enough to do a little profile shot of the old one. And the new one. I think the new one was on top of the old one and it is significantly smaller. So they've definitely made strives there.

The bottom does have a funny shape. Our I'd met, it looks like. Janky. I'm sure it has reasons for looking that way, but the big old USBA ports have been replaced with USB-C port seaside, lightening for, you know, that's, that's cool. That's, you know, that's as good as it gets. Basically. 

[00:31:19] James: Scott did a cool demo or it was powering, this machine was powering two 4k monitors, uh, out of the surface dock, obviously access lightening on it.

And, um, you know, you he's like, you know, he, I guess he built asp.net core. He said he, it. Reduce his build time by 30% or something. By using this machine versus his current, whatever his desktop machine is or whatever he was. I don't know what the comparison was, but his side-by-side was, everything is faster.

He's like, yeah. To rebuild my website, like nine seconds or something like that, you know what I mean? Uh, some banana. So I, I thought that was, I like. We got C sharp and.net in a surface event, Kino, like, come on. That's cool. I 

[00:31:59] Frank: miss that. Where, where, when, when did it happen? Was that Scott? Oh, Scott did it. He was showing his blog.

I noticed that I didn't like his naming convention. I had a class called like V3 page or V4 page and the V with lowercase. And I almost wrote into Scott to complain about that lowercase V but I kept it pause. Because I'm a good person. 

[00:32:20] James: Yeah. Like when you see it, he'd tell you talks about it. He talks about all this stuff that he builds and all this other stuff.

It was nice, you know? Um, he had a hate, a lot of hidden gems in there too. I don't want to talk about it, but if you study his, you could look at the background. There's stuff, that's in his space, but there's stuff that Scott placed in that space, um, which is nice. Nice little, uh, I wouldn't have known, but I was on a call with Scott today and he's like, see what I did there.

See what I did there. I was like, okay, it's got collaborate. Cheeky, cheekiness ransom in. I like it. Begin 

[00:32:52] Frank: the forensics. Yeah. I, the first cheeky part I noticed was he had all these like multicolor consoles running in visual studio. And my Dave it'll sit in his console. It's two colors, black and white. He's running all these antsy graphics and I'm, I just found that kind of hilarious way to show off Scott.

Yeah. It's always fun to see 

[00:33:12] James: my favorite part that you ready for this removable SSD options. Oh, I can remove the SSD. You get there's a remove. You can upgrade the SSD. 

[00:33:24] Frank: What is this? 1999. What's going on here? Why, why would you ever want to remove a part of your computer? You need that part for the, to compute.

[00:33:31] James: Got all right. Great. Upgrade it. Upgrade this device rank. Yeah. Define 

[00:33:36] Frank: your terms. I don't know what you mean. You can of change. 

[00:33:41] James: No, the SSD you can upgrade. That's it just as, as the thing, 

[00:33:44] Frank: that's it. Okay. That's actually cool. I'll I'll stop making fun. Uh, is it like one of those NBME kind of shaped drives?

How do you actually physically do it? Oh, I 

[00:33:54] James: don't know. Oh, hold on. There's a, there's a slide to rotate. Can I see it upside down? Uh, I don't know. Yeah, 

[00:34:03] Frank: but it's doable though. 

[00:34:05] James: Okay. Yeah, you can do it. I'm looking, I'm scrolling further. It's got a really big track pad. Very happy about that. Um, 

[00:34:11] Frank: they said a track pad.

Oh, haptics. So they said this was Microsoft's first track pad with haptics, which made me wonder, uh, does that mean they removed the actual physical button nurse and now they're doing the apple trick of clicks are haptic clicks. You know, I, I think apple actually has been pretty much ruling and the touch pad departments.

So I love to see Microsoft up their game a bit there. The thing that I found really interesting was they added haptics to the Pence. I keep calling on a pencil. I apologize, pen the pen, which is sorry. I'm just have to laugh at marketing people. They say in the demo that you could feel the texture of the paper as he draw.

I love to draw. Are you a. Person. Do you like to draw? No, 

[00:35:00] James: no, no sketch right now. 

[00:35:02] Frank: I love to draw with pencils. My mom's a painter, but I prefer to draw with pencils and it is a very distinct feel and no computers cannot do it. If you are a good artist, working with a digitizers, chances are you've trained yourself to work with a digitizer.

It is absolutely nothing like reality. It's nothing like how a real pencil works. And a lot of that is feedback, forced feedback, haptics, whatever you want to call it. And so I actually am really interested in that. What they can't do is provide friction between the pencil and the screen. But maybe you can trick your fingers into thinking there's a friction there.

So I'm, I'm looking forward to at least trying that out in a store, stealing yours or someone, whoever, whoever I can get my hands on. 

[00:35:52] James: I definitely, I thought that was a really nice feature overall, um, of it. And of course that the, the, uh, pen hides on all these devices. So like in the, uh, on the laptop studio, it is kind of under the little notch underneath.

So like right where your, a space bar is like on underneath there, it tucks in then on the, the surface pros, uh, it actually tucks in. To the keyboard up top and it folds under, and it charges it at the same time, which is pretty banana and really cool. I thought that was a nice, nice, hidden touch of, of, out of sight out of mind.

But that, that is there when you need it. And yeah, the haptic thing, I was like, wow, that's surprisingly kind of awesome because it does make sense that there would be some feedback there when you're pressing on these devices. I thought that was a very nice. 

[00:36:43] Frank: Yeah. And they had the nice eraser mode. I haven't upgraded to the apple pencil to yet.

And I can't remember if that's a feature or not, but you just flip the pen over and it acts as an eraser. It's one of those, like such an obvious features that every time I use my apple pencil version one, I'm like, why doesn't this do that? It's such an obvious feature. Yeah. Neat. To see the state of the art advance.

Boy. Oh boy. So what do we have to do as developers? Can we just enjoy this hardware you think, and just keep on doing, 

[00:37:15] James: uh, keep on track. I mean, if you are an Android developer, you can optimize your applications for dual screen and foldable devices. Uh, the Microsoft home page, I'll put a link on there. It has, it's just called like dual screen development and it is for every, every different type of developer, no matter what you're building with, you can, uh, Get information on how to light up that feature.

And it's, it's not, uh, some of the things that are specific for duo, but in general, it's more about creating an ecosystem and getting all the apps updated. Everything else should just work. When is 11 and that should work. I'm assuming that for windows 11, with when you, I, there, I don't know if you have to recompile against the latest SDK or I don't know how that'll work for, you know, Xamarin and Donna Maui apps like Donna Maui apps are built on when you

It should just work, but I don't know if I need to do that. That apple thing, which is you need to compile your app on the latest OSPF with the latest X code to get the latest UI. I'm not sure how that works. I need to test it. I can test it with my stream timer, probably at some point, once I get the windows 11 stuff up and running fully, I'm just have the betas right now.

So, but then everything comes out in October. It's like it's happening pretty much. It's crazy 

[00:38:27] Frank: and you can pre-order now, according to them, I couldn't find the link. Maybe we can 

[00:38:32] James: microsoft.microsoft.com. That's where, you know, 

[00:38:36] Frank: Oh, is that like a startup or something? Yeah. 

[00:38:38] James: You know how you, like, you go to apple.com when you're like, oh, I want to find the way to go to microsoft.com.

Now I gotta, I gotta talk about this because they did a whole video on the adaptive kit for Microsoft 

[00:38:49] Frank: surface. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've neglected to do this. Let me start by saying. I think they should've just put these symbols on everything and I'm jumping ahead. I'm not even mentioning what these symbols are, but I love this part and I wish every keyboard just had this built in, but now you, you please explain what I mean by that.

This 

[00:39:08] James: is, um, make surface devices more accessible. It's twenty-five dollars. It's mostly, it's a little kit it's built on a mostly recycled plastics from the ocean. And the idea is that. This kid has made a various stickers and labels that can help individuals that are blind or with other disabilities, um, navigate the surface devices.

And some of these are generic, so it can be for everyone. Uh, so for example, there's a little sticker that you might put on. You're charging cable, and then you would put a similar, uh, sticker and they all have symbols on them. So when you touch them, they have similar symbols on them that you can pair with it.

Um, you would put that next to the port on the, uh, surface device. So you can line those up, uh, which I just think is really, really neat. Uh, and then there are these other symbol. Uh, that's like an X, a minus sign, a circle, and a dot that can help you identify key keys and other ports, other devices that you might put into it.

So you basically modify your device quickly, um, to spend more time just working on it. And I think there's another one that can attachment that you can put on the. Um, that will help people, uh, open the device. So, uh, for example, uh, if it's, if it's a laptop, you put this little like lanyard on the top of it, and it helps individual that maybe have some disabilities, um, like maybe they have like one hand, for example, or one arm, it helps you like open the device.

Uh, Uh, while it's sitting down, uh, so all these nice little touches and they had someone, uh, there, um, with, with disabilities, talking about how they use this and how they worked with Microsoft on it. So I just thought it was really, really neat. Really. Um, just a nice little touch because when we think about the world, this is visible, everyone's making these amazing devices, but not, you know, you want to make them so everybody can use them.

Yeah. And you saw that with the X-Box. The it's the X-Box adaptive controller, um, for individuals that are disabled and it's one of the most amazing devices, um, that I've ever seen, uh, come out. And so this is just a nice, um, addition, you know, 20 bucks really, uh, helps individuals, um, use the device. 

[00:41:34] Frank: Yeah.

And here's where I'm thinking. I think it would help everyone. Um, it's kind of like a joke and accessibility that if you add accessibility features to your app, they generally help everyone because it turns out software is hard to use and the computer industry has had a bad track record of creating actually usable user interfaces.

There was a really good line in the presentation. I don't know if it's an original line or something, but it goes. When you don't intentionally include, we unintentionally exclude. Yeah. And man, what a line? What a line, because that's what it is. It's not that we're like intentionally making our software hard for people to use that no one has that intention, but unintentionally.

Yeah, we do it all the time constantly. I I'm definitely guilty of this. I felt a pain. I guilt when they said that line because wow. W way to get down to it. It's you have to think through all these things next, uh, I'm reminded of those, um, Oxo line of kitchen products, Oxo products, you know those. Yeah. Uh, I think they were originally developed for people that had, uh, Uh, you know, you just couldn't grip obviously enough, so whatever was causing that, but it turns out that it's just a more comfortable tool to use for everyone, because guess what, if it's, if they made gripping easier, then that's going to be easier for everyone.

And I feel like that's why I kind of wish Microsoft. No, we're just putting these symbols all over the keyboard. We're putting these symbols all for the products they're going to be raised in bow or yeah, that'd be whatever extrusions there'll be in Bostons, whatever it takes. Uh, I'm hoping we'll get to that point because although I love these stickers, I love that you can attach them to things.

Me personally, I'm constantly labeling everything on my computers, because again, I'm getting old. I like color coding. I like being able to attach things very quickly and know exactly what they are. And this is exactly that this is like a Microsoft version of that. But I kind of would just wished like, as an industry, we would just start putting that on the product itself because we don't, I don't need my perfectly smooth extruded aluminum case, you know, it's okay.

If it has, um, an embossing on it or something that tells me don't plug in here or do plug in there. This is the, you know, right now our keyboards have a tiny little nub on the F key and a tiny little nub on the Jakey. Uh, maybe that was good in Victorian times. I don't know, but we can do way better today.

And in the mechanical keyboard world, you'd see this people are doing textured keys, you know, uh, and it, it doesn't have to be braille. I can't read braille. A lot of people can't read braille, but. No, just a few hints. You know, why, why don't the arrow keys feel like arrows, things like that. So I'm all for this.

I hope we can continue to make strides 

[00:44:31] James: that's direction. Yeah. You know, like the Xbox series X and series S came out and what they did on the back of the device is, um, they actually put. Uh, indicators like little bumps basically to indicate what the port is. So on the back there's inputs for power, for HTMI and like ether, net, and each of those have a different number of dots associated with them and like, and, um, uh, USB ports.

Based on the number of dots you can know right away, like what that port is and what it is. So it's just, again, it, it folds into the design to let you know that here's where this thing is at and, and what it is. So if you're just feeling around it, See it or read it. You can, you can just make some more accessible.

Um, so again, that's like a nice design. It's like built into the hardware. Right. And I don't ever see the back of my device and I don't really be as nice. And to me, it's not, it doesn't take away. It adds to it that it's going to help individuals get their X-Box set up and working correctly, which is so, so cool.

[00:45:48] Frank: I mean, especially that scenario, I don't know about you, but all my like home entertainment, electronics are in a very dark pile in the corner of that room that I have. And I'm always like sticking my fingers back there, praying that I don't shock myself for anything, but trying like that kind of feels like an ethernet port let's assume it is and start jamming things into it.

Yeah. That's just makes perfect sense. I didn't know about that. That's clever. So good job, Microsoft killing it. 

[00:46:14] James: Run on trust. Cute. Whenever want to be included. 

[00:46:18] Frank: Oh man. I hope they're paying for an advertisement on this episode, 

[00:46:22] James: Microsoft. I worked there. There's your advertisement? Not, not on any of these teams.

I don't know anything. I don't do anything. Um, 

[00:46:31] Frank: I say that as if I have any clue what you'd actually do over there, but yeah, 

[00:46:35] James: I wish I knew. Um, well, I thought it was a great event. I love that. It's back to back events. Uh, events September it's event, September. I'm all about it. I love it because we don't need to come up with topics, but you can tell us what you want us to talk about.

Head over to merge conflict.fm. There's a contact button. There's discord, there's Patrion. There's all the things we'd love it. If you do like this podcast and you want to help us out and you're like, whoa, this is cool. You can share with someone that would be rad or. You can write a review. Maybe if you're over on the apple podcast, you're on Stitcher.

Wherever else, you can leave a podcast, give that little thumbs up and a five stars and little review. Let us know what you think it does. Legit help other people find the podcast. Um, yeah, that's gonna do it for this. Week's emerge conflict. Let's go buy some new devices, Frank. And so the next time on James monster.

And 

[00:47:25] Frank: I'm Frank Krueger. Thanks for listening.