mergeconflict214
James: [00:00:00] Frank. After 45 years, I finally decided to make the decision to switch from Android to iOS.  
Frank: [00:00:18] I'm thinking more like temporary decision. I have, I love the experiment going on here. I think we talked about this in the past and I vaguely understand what's going on and Oh my God, you wrote a blog entry, but I still feel like.
This is an experiment that I feel like you're a little bit of a Wolf in sheep's clothing here, but tell me mr. Android user, how is life now that you have switched to iOS? 
James: [00:00:45] Yeah, well, let's, let's walk it back. Let's walk it back. Cause we have, we have sort of sprinkled, if you will sort of like an IMS EJ, confetti sprinkling down message that you could do to all of your friends.
Um, and. We've sprinkled the topic of, of me coming in and switching over and doing this trial. It was a trial in the beginning and then we'll get to where we're at today. So for my birthday, Apple sent me a, I mean, how it 
Frank: [00:01:11] works. 
James: [00:01:14] I think that's how it works. Apples decided to send me a, um, A DTK a development transition kit, which was cool.
In fact, I wrote that blog post on my birthday, the first blog post June 5th. Uh huh. 
Frank: [00:01:29] I I'm, I'm just trying to, yeah, I knew that it was your birthday. I probably totally wished you happy birthday at the time too. I hope, of course. I hope I did. 
James: [00:01:37] Of course it's in your calendar and it gives you a notification, obviously 
Frank: [00:01:40] adding to calendar.
What mine was that blog entry again, James, 
James: [00:01:44] the June 25th is the perfect birthday. Cause it's six months before and after Christmas, it's the perfect day. So, so I, I have a few things happen first. The DTK was coming in and then I wrote this blog post about how excited I was. How about the DTK coming in.
And then I snuck something in at the end, which is that I bought an iPhone, uh, F for personal use, which is the first time for the, I said for my first time ever, uh, you know, I bought an iPhone. I bought an iPhone se second generation. 
Frank: [00:02:12] Yeah. These are great phones. The second generation that's the latest generation.
Is that right? Correct. Okay. Yeah. These are amazing phones. They took like this year, last year, his processor, and put it in a ridiculously cheap phone compared to the high end phones that cost as much as desktop computers these days. So it's good to have like a high powered. I don't want to call it low cost, but we'll call it more.
Normally cost a priced phone. 
James: [00:02:41] I would say consumer friendly pricing. Yeah, that, that sounds 
Frank: [00:02:45] fair. Ish. 
James: [00:02:47] So I, and you know, my pixel two XL for a long time, and I love this device is I think it's a fantastic device. And before that I had every other Android device all the way back to the MotoDroid, which was my first one on Verizon back in 2006, seven, something like that.
Whenever it came out is when I got it. At launch with Android two.one, which had exchanged sync on it, which was a big deal. So 
Frank: [00:03:13] beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. Oh, Wes. Beautiful hardware. I remember it. Well, um, 
James: [00:03:19] sliding keyboard, which was great. 
Frank: [00:03:21] Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So what would take you away from your, your prize beloved Android?
James: [00:03:28] So a few things happen here. It wasn't just on a whim. It was mostly that I really wanted a new device and I was really hoping that Google would put out the pixel foray, which they have now. But back in the beginning of June, they had not mentioned it talked about it, or they leaked a few things here and there, but.
In the middle of the Corona virus, it seemed as if nothing was going to do, and I needed some new pieces technology, Frank, to please hold me over for the next year and a half, you know, until this thing goes away and Apple came out and said, here you go, three 99, here's an iPhone se. And I said, you know what?
All of my test devices that I have are either ginormous, iPhone sevens, or an old iPhone six. Which does not get any operating updates anymore. So I was sort of in this conundrum and I said, okay, well, what if I go all in and to actually give this a try, uh, and see what happens. I think I'll talk about the other justifications about the device as we tie and kind of talk through it.
But I also had this bonus. I had a bunch of best buy gift cards and like, you know, the rewards. So I ended up only paying like $330 for this phone. Cause I had a bunch of best buy things sitting around, but you're right. I decided to get it because I knew that if Google came out with the foray, which it has, it was going to give it that, not the things that it, it deserves compared to this iPhone se second generation, because one.
IPhone se second generation perfect screen size of 4.7 inches. What a delight go find an iPhone six. Frank is the same exact size per what a delight. It has the same exact, a 13 bionic chip with third generation neural engine. It has the thing is it's the same one, I guess I'd say one. And, and it has, you know, 64 gigs of Ram or 64 gigs of capacity by default.
So that made me happy. You're 
Frank: [00:05:21] doing my job for me. I was going to try to speak to the virtues of this phone, but what a glowing review, it sounds like there's absolutely nothing wrong with this product or anything. I don't know how we could possibly talk for 30 minutes about it, but, um, okay. I still feel like you're, uh, Wolf in sheep's clothing.
I almost said a sheep and Wolf scrolling, but that wouldn't work out with this analogy. So how far, okay, so you're waiting for a pixel. You were disappointed that no new pixel came out with features you wanted, I guess they have now released it, but you're still on this phone and you haven't said that you're dropping this thing and buying a pixel that hasn't happened yet.
So, um, well, okay. We won't talk about the pixel. What has kept you on this phone then? 
James: [00:06:09] I like that that's a good way of putting it in my blog post, which I'll link in the show notes. I did sort of a side by side comparison of the things that I love, the things that I hate, the things that I think could be better.
Um, but the reasons why I'm still here. Okay. Here's the reasons I'm S I'm still here on this, on this, on this iPhone se one, I think the iPhone se uh, size, I mentioned it earlier, the. Size of it is spectacular. I have flown my DGI drone with it. It is the perfect size for the DGI drone, uh, controller. Uh, it's really great.
It it's perfect. Uh, compared to me struggling every time to get the two XL. And I know people are saying, but James, you decided to get the XL. And I said, well, Actually Google did because often they put the better hardware in the XL phones. You know what I mean? So why am I going to spend a thousand dollars?
I might as well spend a thousand dollars on a hundred extra to get the better stuff. So I did that. Um, here's the best part about it. I am for all intents and purposes, the last holdout on iOS in my family, besides my brother-in-law Brian and for good reason, I just love Andrew. And I think it's absolutely delightful, super customizable things like this.
There were some things that were mind-boggling about iOS that I'm not going to go into. I've got like the one thing, the homescreen. Why can't you just say alphabetize? My app icons. I don't just do that anyways. I'll tell you here is why actually moving from Android to iOS is worth $400. It's one application Frank one app.
It's not even a good looking application, to be honest, it's like, it's nothing. Oh, wow. There's a beautiful unit. Your design built into this thing. It is, it's an, but it's an essential application, which is, I message. It is . 
Frank: [00:07:58] It's the best. Say the stock FAP. Oh, 
James: [00:08:01] I do use the stocks app. I do use this. Well, I use the stocks widget and then I go into Robin hood to check actual things.
But, uh, I message. I, you know, I sort of, uh, you know, being from, at home all the time, we've sat on the podcast inside of where we live, terrible reception outside, amazing reception. You know, this is a common problem, but now where am I at all day? Every single day, Frank. In 
Frank: [00:08:28] side, correct. As a good person.
James: [00:08:32] That is correct. I am quarantined up. So what happens when I try to send a message? When I'm on a group message, then I'm the only green bubble, right? 
Frank: [00:08:44] We tolerate the green bubbles of the world. Don't don't feel bad. Don't don't let James shame you right now. I want to be on the side of acceptance. The iOS community is accepting of the green bubbles, right?
But it surely does help group dynamics. If we're all blue, it doesn't fit. 
James: [00:09:00] It helps. It helps send message. Fasters um, it helps images and especially 
Frank: [00:09:05] video there does, 
James: [00:09:07] you know, alone just being able to take a video and send a video and it sends. It works. That's a thing like it to me. And I know people are going to be like, Oh, what about RCS?
Right. Well, RCS is on Android. Yes. But nobody else has Android that I text with all the time. Like I want to be able, here's the biggest kicker. I want to be able to send my wife images and photos all the time. Yes. I'm trapped in the house. What am I sending her photos of? Not, I don't even know. I make my shoes that are just sitting there not being able to go outside, but you know, like you're outside, we go on hikes all the time.
It's nice to be able to click a photo and then send it. And it works just like Snapchat, you know what I mean? 
Frank: [00:09:52] Yeah, it's actually funny. Um, I've noticed this funny dynamic with our groups is when you're out doing stuff, you never really take pictures of yourself. You take pictures of other people in the group.
And so what you end up doing in the end is I have a million pictures of these people that have pictures of me. So you have to merge everyone's photo albums, and it's gotten to be the. Fun easy way to do that. We're talking about messages, but I'm an airdrop fan. And I just love being able to move data files around between my devices and my computer.
But it's that same sense of you can semi reply on it. It works 80% of the time, you know, that kind of stuff, but it's, it's refreshing to hear that because the truth is I haven't used an Android phone in a long time and I wasn't sure if like they had a magic. Green bubble to green bubble protocol as we have a blue bubble, the blue bubble.
So what was that protocol called again? And is that a special app you have to use? 
James: [00:10:50] Okay, so RCS, um, is a newer form of, um, messaging and RCS. Yeah. Oh, like 
Frank: [00:10:59] MMS, but now it's RCS. 
James: [00:11:01] Yeah. It's like communications services and. Uh, rich communication services is something that the mobile carriers and the cell phone is supposed to be a replacement for SMS for all intents right here.
So it will. It's part of an IP based, you know, it gets away from the SMS service, you know, it's kind of like, uh, Oh, it's an 
Frank: [00:11:26] internet protocol. So just like messages is able to take a lot of advantage because I can just do wifi and just talk to Apple servers directly instead of going through. Yeah. God awful at and T servers.
James: [00:11:38] That's correct. So you get the, you know, and I've used it. I do have my brother in law and a few other colleagues that have Android. So when we're texting, we actually become blue. Like everything needs a different color. Okay. Scheme. And, uh, in, in Android messages, which is the Google message, they have 20 messaging apps, but it is the official one.
And. Oh, and it shows a little bubble and it comes through a lot faster. Uh, however, it's not, you know, it's not a hundred percent reliable. Like sometimes it disconnects from the server and it's kind of weird, but it, it, it, the problem is that Apple has no incentive to move to RCS. Like, I don't know, unless, unless the, um, telecoms.
Force and say, we no longer support SMS, which will never happen. Right. Um, you know, they don't have any reason to, so even if RCS did take over the world, it wouldn't solve my problem. 
Frank: [00:12:36] Yeah. Um, telecoms used to have tons of power, but these days I got a feeling they have very little power is so much regulated, um, competent, ah, competition at the sport.
They're forced to share networks and things like that, but it's really hard to differentiate themselves. So. I think they're kind of at the mercy of Apple and Google at the moment, which is a little weird, but I don't think this is stable situation. It'll it'll end at some point, but yeah, yeah. For now Apple definitely has as a business advantage.
Look, you just did a 15 minute commercial for them. I messaged us an iPhone. Everyone. Do you want to communicate with humans? Oh, it works better. Um, but you did some fun things in your blog, and I always love these. You did 'em camera test, not just bounce, just messages. So without reading your blog, uh, you did the fun.
Like I took a picture on the iPhone as seen, I took a picture on the pixel two XL. I want to talk about those and those kinds of tests, but, but James. How do you feel the cameras are different? 
James: [00:13:41] Yeah. So this is a tricky one. My wife has a, uh, iPhone 11 pro, which? Yeah. 
Frank: [00:13:49] Oh yeah. I'm sorry. I'm rocking the 11 pro that's it not to glow anything over here, but gosh, darn it.
That is a nice camera on 
James: [00:13:57] that phone. It is. And in fact, she broke her old iPhone Xs and. Uh, well, there's the screen had a hairline crack in it, and the nice people at Apple were nice enough to, um, enable her to trade it in mean at a very good deal to upgrade. Um, and they did not, they did not knock her, which was good.
I've been. Always in the camp of, I like to have two different camera systems in the house. It gave you the we're out on a hike and here are two different perspectives. Two different color profiles, one are warmer and one are cooler and some are more processed like on, on my pixel two XL. It's also a single camera system.
Um, There. And the reason I was able to get the iPhone, uh, S E second generation was because my wife had the iPhone 11 pro because I knew that it would take the best photos ever. There was no phone on the market I could get today. That will take better photos on that camera, on that phone. So why bother?
Right. But, um, I, you know, myself, I decided that I was going to give this single photo. Um, they're a single lens system, a try and I will say overall, it is fine. It's okay. Good enough for me moving from my pixel two XL over to, uh, this one, it has a similar. Um, um, you know, cameras and they both have a, uh, 12 mega pixel wide camera that pixel two XL is 12.3.
The different is the aperture. Um, the iPhone se is at a 1.8 F uh, stop compared to a two on the, on the pixel two XL. And the, the difference between Apple and Google is that Google has always taken an AI hardware centric focus first. So they're there, they're there, they take tons of different photos and blend them all together and they take a little bit longer to process or process where apples and more things.
Um, just here's the, here's the photo. I think more recently, they're doing a lot more, uh, on, on device processing, but the, uh, the daylight. Photos are, I would say the same. They have a different color profile. One is warmer. One is cool ruler, uh, and a little bit more detailed. Yeah, I was, I was impressed. I, I took a photo of sort of this Pikachu up close with a bunch of different, different things into the way back, you know, and if, if you take those photos and you pull them up, you can get the bigger, bigger photo of them.
You know, side by side, like a huge, uh, uprise of them, the four of you just drag it into a new browser browser tab. I'll link to each individual photo. Inside of there. And Frank, if you can't find that, I'll go ahead and put that into our Zencaster. So you can see that right now in your, well, 
Frank: [00:16:49] I want to comment on these photos real quick 
James: [00:16:51] and that's the thing is I, I know what I think, but I'd want to know what you think, because to me, let's talk about daylight first stick with daylight, then I'll talk about nighttime.
So you go with daylight. 
Frank: [00:17:02] I want to go with this peek at you one. And I'm going to start with these photos are essentially identical. Um, I can nitpick little bits of each one, but they're essentially identical. Uh, you mentioned like one had a little more detailed than the other for me. I just see that as contrast.
Bring this up in Photoshop and just move the contrast knob a tiny bit. You keep talking about one is warmer. One is cooler. Again, it's just a knob in Photoshop. It's just, you know, which company decided on which default settings, you know, that kind of thing. Um, it's like that problem with comparing TVs in a store, unless you have a meter with you, you really can't compare TVs.
Cause they're at such random settings. 
James: [00:17:42] Yeah. Like the pixel two XL has less contrast like comparatively, because when you look at the wall color, it is white, not a pink. Uh, you know, compared to the iPhone that it has turned up a little bit there. Uh, so that that's one thing, but you're, you're correct. I mean, the amount of detail it looked, they both look very good.
Um, again, noise level 
Frank: [00:18:03] is about the same. Um, yeah. Um, and the lenses are different. I love to see the different lenses. It was funny what you were just saying. Uh, is it true that the iPhone se just has one f-stop? Cause I had a weird feeling that. Maybe like the 11th that they had multiple f-stops or like hardware I've stopped, not software.
Obviously you can change anything in software. It's just curious about that. 
James: [00:18:29] No, just the one, 
Frank: [00:18:30] just the one. Okay. Yep. Okay. So I think Google is really, I had a bit of an advantage here in that they have awesome. Machine learning AI expertise and neural networks. And it's really impressive. I think what they're pulling off with as you call it the single lens, um, You know, the world is redundant.
Neural networks can learn what the world looks like and fill in the details. It's not like our brains, aren't doing the exact same thing constantly. Uh, that said Apple has obviously made some great leaps and bounds. I think the iPhone se you were mentioning, it has the hardware neural chip in it, and that's what enables it to do portrait mode.
Have you done much of portrait mode? I 
James: [00:19:15] have it, it seems to work fairly good as well. I think the difference that I've always had in the portrait mode on iOS now that I've used it, is that it really wants to have, uh, only do it if it's a person, whereas as the Android. Yeah. I don't 
Frank: [00:19:30] have any people in my life right now.
That's the 
James: [00:19:32] problem. 
Frank: [00:19:34] Yeah. 
James: [00:19:35] Give me an object. It doesn't matter, you know, and that's what I want it to be, but that that's sort of the difference. 
Frank: [00:19:40] Yeah, I think, you know, I even have this weird memory of Apple saying that they're getting better at just random objects, but I think maybe they just said it works with your pet's face.
Like it's able to accept animals, not just humans, but yeah, I would like to be able to do it of my stupid beer can because that's my world these days. That's my friend and my companion. So what do you think about a 
James: [00:20:01] night mode? That was terrible. 
Frank: [00:20:02] So, 
James: [00:20:04] uh, you know, there is no official night mode, right?
There's no, on the iPhone 11, 11 pro there's a night mode and Android, even my pixel two XL has a night mode on it. It was one of the first, the assay does not at all. And unfortunately you can see by those side by side, uh, I mean, I took this photo multiple times and I did not pick the worst. I picked the best.
Okay. There were, there were, there were, there were times in which I took a photo at night, but I moved too quick. And, uh, it got that blurry effect, you know, like you were using a camera from 10 years ago and that was really surprising. And then I remember this is a $400 cell phone, and then I came to terms it's not terrible, but it's not good.
Side-by-side you can tell that the pixel two XL really. Either took advantage of the, uh, the, the processing. It took a lot of photos, combine them all together, you know, and, and sucked in more. Right. Then you can read the plaque in, in the pixel two XL that I have, um, overall. So that's kind of a shame. 
Frank: [00:21:17] Yeah.
As an engineer, James, I think that you're suffering from marketing. Apple has an amazing neural network that can really lighten up images. It's a little bit freaky on the 11 pro. I can take a shot in pretty good darkness and it'll come out looking like daylight. I mean, the network is so aggressive at.
Enhancing the colors in the scene and everything. So I think that you're paying a little bit of a up marketing price right now. Cause and software, I think, cause Google maps, we'll be doing this in software. 
James: [00:21:52] Oh yes it is. 
Frank: [00:21:53] Yeah. It would be noisy as all get out like. I use raw camera access when I'm doing robotics and things in there.
They're decent cameras, but they're noisy. Like a real camera feed is noisy. So these are really processed things. So it's just a little bit sad in my engineering heart that you're not getting that on the iPhone. I see. 
James: [00:22:12] Yeah, that, that was my problem is I'm totally fine with whatever shenanigans Google is doing on the pixel, because that's why it makes a good photo.
Uh, and, and, and comparatively, I did, you know, it's not an iOS thing. It is, it is just. Whatever is in the se you know, and how they're doing it. They could flip on the bed. I'm sure. But what's their incentive. They would rather, you pay a thousand dollars because I took photos. Side by side with Heather's camera.
That's what I should have put on here. I didn't want to, I want it to be more pure, kind of like here's a two, a two and a half year old phone versus this, you know, this is like me upgrading from a thousand dollar phone and you can tell, Hey, this was a thousand dollar phone and it's a great camera. Um, Heather's iPhone 11 pro we took besides night shots.
Spectacular. Just absolutely amazing. Better than my pixel two XL, you know, better. So 
Frank: [00:23:02] yeah. Yeah, they're, they're both running enhancement networks. Um, the, uh, the 11 pro has the advantage of the three lenses. Like if you're not able to integrate three lenses, then you're doing software wrong or you actually give you a beautiful image.
Yeah. 
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Frank: [00:24:32] I did not know how that segway was going, but I love that one deal. 20 grand for switching. Awesome. Thank you, Reagan. Amazing. 
James: [00:24:40] Ah, okay. So yeah, last thing I'll say is, is I do use like Google photos and other things like this.
What is with is HCIC shenanigans, the high, Oh, 
Frank: [00:24:50] the Heath and the heck. And, uh, hi 
James: [00:24:54] shenanigans. 
Frank: [00:24:55] Okay. I'm going to get part of this wrong, but in general, I'll get it right. Apple has, you know, there are always better imaging products out there. Yeah, this has been happening forever back when I was working on the WPF team and who knows the stone age, um, we were working on a new image format because every company kind of hates JPEG and ping.
Um, they're state-of-the-art at the time, but they're not state-of-the-art today. We can do so much better, but you know, everyone's support supports JPEG being in Jeff that are kind of the image formats of the internet. So Apple said, look, we're doing this live photo thing. And we want to do this crazy night vision thing that requires actually multiple frames.
They're doing image stacking. If you're from a photo perspective, you know, they're merging a bunch of photos into one to get a high dynamic range. So that's basically a video, you know, what's the difference between that and a video. So they took an amazing video codex, something like HT 64. Yeah. Obviously something else, mess patent to you who knows there are technical details, um, and they split it into an image format and a video format.
And indeed you get lovely levels of quality with great compression. You're able to put these live photo things and with very ugly frames, but at least one or two good video frames. And. But they're disrupting the universe. This has been tried before. I hate it personally, myself. It doesn't matter too much if in my world I use cloud for, um, I should say I photo for all my photo backups at cloud too.
And in that world, it doesn't matter because your photos are just in this sense, you drag them out of the app when you want your photo. No biggie. Yeah. But I also. Because I'm paranoid, backup all my photos to Dropbox. So whenever I plug in my phone to a computer, it downloads the latest photos and upload those to my Dropbox.
And that's when the Heath and he, and he files come out and, Oh boy. Okay. Sorry. I've been talking about it, but I got to take a step back. Now when I was a kid, we sent off a bunch of analog photos to accompany. That's scanned them for us and then sent them back. . They didn't send them back as JPEG files, which they should have.
They send them back in their own proprietary format. And to this day I have discussed three and a half inch. This that's a very old family photos of which we probably don't have any other copies of in this ridiculous proprietary format that I have to run a windows emulator to execute so that I can pull these photos out of the system.
And. As a kid, it became this really deep lesson in my heart that like, you don't mess around with file formats for archival stuff. You know, you save it as a text file. You save it as a JPEG. You don't save it as some random word processing file format. Okay. And a friend. Yeah. 
James: [00:28:04] End of it. Yeah. And I, I use Google photos for all my backups, cause I I've used it for a long time on Android and I have a bunch of free credits and stuff and yeah.
I think that they're sharing and especially externally sharing is much nicer. So it's the same thing. The funny part is that on Google photos, it, it updates, it uploads the raw. And if I download it, it will download the HTIC. Uh, and then windows struggle, buses so hard to like process it. It will, but the apps crash often.
But if I go into the browser and I just right. Click and hit save, it actually is displaying a JPEG, obviously, which is kind of funny. So they have the JPEG there, but they'll make me download the HTIC, which is kind of funny. But anyways, I digress. Um, and that's the one quirk with the camera of coming over, but I know that probably longterm it's better to have those images in that format.
Frank: [00:28:55] Yeah, it just it's platform. Lock-in, you know, there was a funny story going around and I can't remember if this was like an L sat test. Some qualifying test was given out. And in the end of it, you had to like, take a picture of yourself, like a selfie or something at the end of the test to prove that you had taken it at home.
This is like weird virus stuff going on. And there was a whole batch of students that failed because the server couldn't read. H E I CRF for whatever file formats, the iPhone uploaded because old janky Linux software does not know anything about Apple's modern image Kodak. And so like, there are weird cases like that, you know?
James: [00:29:40] Yeah. 
Frank: [00:29:41] I hate file formats. It's the worst. 
James: [00:29:44] It is. It's the worst. I mean, What are you going to do? I guess, at the end of the day? Well, you know, talking about 
Frank: [00:29:51] going to buy an iPhone, I guess 
James: [00:29:53] about compatibility, I will say that I'm presently surprised by app compatibility. That's usually what people say, right?
They're like, well, you know, I Android's got all my apps or iOS Scouts, all my apps. Right. And I can't ever leave because I never want to. Lose this one app that I love so much, you know, it's not the case. Every app is available everywhere for all intents and purposes there. One app on my Android phone.
Yeah. I, I, you know, that wasn't Android specific or had a replacement, right? The, uh, find my Android, you know, there's obviously an equivalent of find my right, but as far as my, um, Calendar application my Gmail application, my news application. They're all available. If you have, that's a benefit, actually move from moving and being in the Google ecosystem has all of their apps move over.
Google authenticator, Google, keep Google, keep or Google photos, Google music, YouTube, you Google wifi. Like they're all there, right? They're not. Uh, some of them are better than others. You know, you, they're not native, they're native ish because they're not using the native controls or using whatever their, you know, control packages, uh, under the hood.
But, uh, you know, they're all good. They're, they're all, they all work. They're all fast on this phone. Cause it's super duper fast. Uh everything's everything's there. And like, so compatibility to move things over was a breeze. Uh, you know, the, the hardest thing you gotta do is. Is a move, your Google authenticator stuff over.
But besides that, I mean, everything sorta works. I now use edge browser nearly everywhere. So I have all my passwords there, which are now cross platform. So instead of having them just in Safari or Chrome, which I could have installed Chrome too, I have that there. Um, but yeah, all in all, it's pretty good.
You know, there are some weird limitations yeah. With apps. Like, you know, when you go to 'em. You go to open a browser, click on a link. It always has to open in Safari until iOS 14. I hear, but you know, that's sort of a, a quirk, I would say is, you can tell that Apple really has a hold on this operating system.
Like, Hey, this is ours. Don't not, don't try. Don't try to do whatever you're trying to do is our operating system, which is something that you don't. You don't really get a feel for an operating system until you use it and you know, for a long time, by the way. Cause I'm still learning things a month after.
Yeah. Wow. Is that you at the screen? 
Frank: [00:32:25] No, that was just some lovely person outdoors. 
James: [00:32:28] Oh, okay. Perfect. We'll leave that in the podcast. Everyone's okay. Everyone's okay. 
Frank: [00:32:33] I haven't heard a second screen. Okay. 
James: [00:32:37] Maybe there's you a lot of spiders outside your door. So there could have been a spider that boom right in your face then.
Bam.
Frank: [00:32:46] I 
James: [00:32:47] heard some more screaming.
Are you going to have to go outside and see if everyone's okay. 
Frank: [00:32:54] I think everyone's fine. Okay, perfect. Great. And sometimes, 
James: [00:32:57] so here's the worst part about the apps on the entirety of it? So if we get into it, I have a lot more to say there's there's another hour of this podcast. Talk about the two things.
One is YouTube, Frank YouTube. 
Frank: [00:33:13] Okay, so let, let me, let me stop. Okay. That's number one, say number two. Cause I still have a lot to say about everything you said before that what's number two. 
James: [00:33:22] I was going to talk about the app store. So let's just go into whatever you want to say first, before we talk about YouTube.
Frank: [00:33:29] Wow. Okay. Uh, I was going to say I got burned with Google authenticator because I never realized that none of that's being uploaded to the Google clued. Correct? Um, yeah, so I lost access to a bunch of accounts that I'm trying to regain access to because, um, I didn't restore from an iPhone backup, so just a pro tip to everyone out there.
Reminder Google, whatever token generator thing is not. Cloud backup. 
James: [00:33:56] Although Frank, it is now on Android is not on iOS. So in fact, I actually have, I have my Android phone sitting around, waiting for them to update the iOS phones so I can easily transfer it in. So that's one of the, a lot of the, I use a, I also have the Microsoft authenticator for work and for MSA accounts and that, that was awesome to move back and forth really great app.
So, yeah. 
Frank: [00:34:18] And it's funny how, um, Cross platform is definitely expected at the large corporation level. At this point, as a user, you expect Google of course is going to be on all the platforms. Of course, Microsoft of course, is going to be on all the platforms. I took a little dig. When you said none of your apps were tied to the platform because I have a few apps tied to the platform like chains.
Don't you want to run my app? Isn't my app. Indispensable to your day to day life, 
James: [00:34:45] I guess 
Frank: [00:34:46] you must rely on the big Corp. It sounds like. 
James: [00:34:50] Yeah, that's a good point. I, you know, in the last year have really slimmed down my app usage like a screen or two. So I've very, very minimal applications and they're mostly tied to the larger, uh, companies out there.
One that I was surprised at was there was my UAV forecasts, which is great. It's my, um, DGI weather forecasts because he was good to fly things like that, that, that came across well. Uh, but most of my other applications, yeah. You know, they're the betterment, the Wealthfronts the bank of America, the Robin hood, uh, the Google applications.
Uh, that's probably the smallest one that's on the, but the rest are larger, larger core application. So you're, you're totally correct. Uh, and that, and that fact, but I would also say there's, there's, there's also the fact that is there a replacement, right? Uh, if I use your. Uh, Calca there may be is no replacement for Kalka obviously, unfortunately, but, but, but you know, there's other applications you might say, Oh, what about this type of thing?
Well, this podcast application has this feature. Well, there's probably an equivalent maybe on, on iOS or Android. Like, you know, I might say use pocket casts or something. If you were coming from overcast and not equivalent. Uh, but you know, good. I use pocket casts and I still do, because it has all my historical data and it's nice that it's cross platform and the iOS version has gotten a lot better.
So that's why that, you know, changing in 2020 is a lot different than changing in 2016. I just think that that's something that I want people to be aware of. 
Frank: [00:36:27] Yeah, it's funny. Actually, how many Google apps I use? Um, I use Google play because I pay for YouTube red and I get free music. So I'm going to use the Google play app all the time.
And I use the YouTube app all the time. Getting back to your points. Number one and two. Uh, now I have to take a little, dig, a little dig at the Google James, um, for all their great cross-platform Minas. They have like the dumbest bugs, like the tap bar will just disappear because it's not a native tab bar, like nothing's native.
And so it all fails in the most ridiculous ways, because if it was a normal tab bar, I've never seen tat bar fail. I've done terrible things to my apps and tap bar keeps chugging along. So like, you know, it's just. Weird things like that, then managing the windows and they still refuse to do some platform integrations that are open to them.
You mentioned that Apple put locks them out of some things. They're opening them bit by bit over a years. But for instance, um, YouTube won't do picture and picture, which is an API supported by Apple. They want you to do picture and picture, but Google won't do it. So once again, we're at the mercy of giant Corp marketing.
Is it wonderful. 
James: [00:37:43] I literally have that in my blog post, which is me being super upset that YouTube does not do that. And it's very true. I got very upset by it and I still do am to this day. In fact, what's funny is that my buddy Jesse said that, uh, if you use Safari too, At least on an iPad, he couldn't confirm it on an iPhone, but on an iPad, it will do picture and picture because Safari supports picture and picture and I think it done.
That's funny. Isn't it funny? 
Frank: [00:38:10] Yeah. They just haven't found a way to block it, I suppose. I'm sure. I'm sure they tried. Um, if it is weird, especially these big core apps that there are web versions of a lot of them. Yeah. Yeah. So getting back to it, tell me more, why did, why did you say that a YouTube was kind of a big deal and the app store?
James: [00:38:30] Yeah. YouTube is a big deal because it was sort of the first indication of either, um, a third party application, not wanting to give all the features, uh, on it as a competitive platform, but the con the opposite is true too. There are circumstances in which Apple. Um, is not allowing, um, certain things in applications to be published.
We know as app developers, that Apple is a finicky beast when it comes to the app store or sometimes we'll just be like, yeah, you had your apps is fine. It's awesome. And then the next day they'll say, I don't know about that. And they'll make your, you know, you know, a month later to update your application and the filing approve it because they have these 
Frank: [00:39:12] guidelines.
Yeah. Everything you said is a hundred percent. I just want to add to it. I heard a rumor and it was just take it as a rumor. Um, that, that classic thing of, uh, I released an app, they approved it. I want to do a bug fix. They don't approve it for something you didn't change at all. You're just trying to get a bug fix out there, but all of a sudden they're not approving the app.
They said that there try to not do that as much anymore. So, so it's the rumor where they'll allow the bug fix through and then say the next update you do. We are going to stop. Yeah. So it's like a warning. You have one update until the next one, again, rumor, but at least, you know what, or you could say like you're given a glass of water to someone in hell.
James: [00:40:00] Yeah. I mean, comparatively, right? I mean, that is a, you know, I don't want to get into all the legality, the crazy things that are happening on Capitol Hill right now. But, you know, this, this week alone we heard from both Facebook and Microsoft, of course, full disclosure. I worked for Microsoft, but I did not work.
Near or close any department in which is involved in these blog posts or in these conversations. But, um, you know, Facebook released their Facebook gaming application, which is for live streaming, sort of like Twitch or, um, or YouTube live events. Um, and that application has both the ability to watch streamers, but also to play games inside.
The application. And then Microsoft announced their project, X cloud, uh, launched some of their launch details. And then they said, it's only going to come to Android and not iOS. And you're like, Oh, okay. Well, I, you know, Microsoft's releasing the. Service duo at some point, right. And maybe, you know, it runs Android.
So there's a lot of stuff there, but no, no, no. Both Facebook and Microsoft said, you know, Apple's app store guidelines do not allow developers to release. Uh, apps that have games inside of them. They have to be either the game. They can't be a directory of games. Uh, even if you're paying for a subscription, like a Netflix type of subscription, because Apple wants to review all the content in all of those games, which is very weird and completely opposite from any streaming service like Netflix, because Netflix obviously would be rated like mature or whatever, because there's mature content.
Same as this service. So it's a very odd, odd one there. That seems like a, uh, Hey, you know, we're gonna do her one and then, but you know, then I hear the flip side of it, which is fascinating too. I think it was Gruber w he said, uh, ding, uh, Gruber said, well, you know, Hey, you know, would, would a Google allow the Apple arcade to be released on Android?
Right. Wood, wood, wood, Sony, or Microsoft allowed Apple arcade to be an app that's released on their platform. Uh, so you know, Apple iOS is their platform. So there's that, um, that sort of, um, a funkiness to it. But I think as a core, as an app developer, I look at it a little bit different because. If you look at traditional desktop, any of us can release a desktop application, does whatever we want it to do.
And, uh, I guess just, you know, a platform. Oh, and I feel like a phone is different. I feel like the phone is a way to. The app store is a way to distribute content and it's not the operating system or the device, because that's how the Android ecosystem is. Right. The Android ecosystem is, Hey, you can put these Android apps on anything.
Was it a fire thing? Is it this thing where you put on anything? You may use services that are restricted to the Android operating system or a Google play service under the hood. But it can really go to absolutely. Any device, any form factor, or is when I think of a Nintendo switch or I think of a council, like a PlayStation for an Xbox one.
I think of those as I am developing a piece of hardware dedicated, that's only going to run on this one specific piece of hardware compared to an app store, which is, Hey, this is going to run on every single iOS device, you know, type of thing. It's, it's, it's, there's a slight modification there. And I think of that earth.
Um, a little, that little, it's not even an it's, it's a little kink that irks me. You know what I mean? 
Frank: [00:43:39] Oh boy. Yeah. Okay. I got a lot of opinions on all of that. That that's. Yeah, that was a great summary though. Cause I actually share your opinion on pretty much all of that and you call it. Alright, a kink, a kink in the plan.
James: [00:43:54] We've got, again, the plan here, 
Frank: [00:43:55] I just I'd say more business than Hawaiians kind of stuff, because again, it's the, you know, business rules versus business ability is technical rules, business, defense business off fence. It feels like a lot of those games are played and it kind of stinks. I think, somewhere in the app store guidelines, um, you can't write launcher apps in general.
Um, I forget how they technically define it, but the rule I've always had in my head is you can't be an app that launches, or that has a bunch of apps inside of it. And I think the, I feel like the kind of ex implicit rule there is you can't compete with the app store. You just can't like period full stop, like all of the business.
Dealings we see with Apple are always them protecting their, um, their 30% margin, these things and that thing. So a lot of these rules break down to them just being a business and wanting to, to make sure that they have a profit and keeping out competitors that threaten their business. And in those terms, as a capitalist, I have to be like, Fine, but as a consumer, I'm like, gosh, darn it all.
I want to play any game I want on any device. I want particularly the device in my pocket. I want to be able to play any possible game on. So yeah, it's super frustrating. Um, I didn't know. Sorry to go. Going backwards a tiny bit. What was the Facebook, uh, thing called? I didn't catch that one. 
James: [00:45:28] I think it's called Facebook gaming.
Cause that's their Twitch competitor. 
Frank: [00:45:33] Okay. So yeah, it's which competitor, whereas X cloud is not a Twitch competitor, X Scott's just games. So you can play your games 
James: [00:45:40] as cool. Yeah, I wonder. 
Frank: [00:45:43] Yeah. And then Google had one has one 
James: [00:45:46] stadia stadia, and it also is not allowed in the, um, The app store either. 
Frank: [00:45:53] Right.
It's funny how I even found out about X cloud, because it came up on Twitter that everyone's upset at Apple for not allowing or. Yeah, whatever Microsoft and Apple getting into a squabble over X cloud and basically people chiming in and saying, well, they don't allow Google either. Like, so it's not like this is an Apple versus Microsoft thing.
It's just Apple really defending its territory. 
James: [00:46:17] And it could be a, I don't know, there's, you know, I, you know, I look at, by the way I look at. Um, how you said it is like, is it in, in trenching or is it in, in coming clashing with their businesses inside of the app store? Cause if you think about it where our app music and their films and videos that they sell, or even have subscription service to not inside the apps, are there apps inside the app store?
Right. Whereas. Arcade is literally a tab inside of the app store because those games are on the app store. So there's a finicky, a finicky, um, sort of balance there that they have, which is, Hey, you can have Spotify and YouTube music and these competitors to Apple music, because that is an app that we have open, you know, Outside of the app store.
If they were selling that inside the app store, as an exclusive, you may not see those things, but again, there might be pressure because as those things grow, it could be one of those things where it's more, um, maybe it's better if they strike a deal, because the thing is, uh, uh, X cloud, uh, is, is maybe probably not 100%, exactly the same.
A competitor is Apple RK. They're both subscription services, or it might even be similar games. Cause some of these games that are on Apple arcade are also on the council. Um, you know, But you play X cloud. Yeah. Like with a controller. Cause they're, they're streaming Xbox games. It's an X-Box game. That's being streamed.
It's not an iPhone game. So it's, it's similar to a streaming service there where the Facebook gaming is two parts. It's a live streaming service, which is what's in the app. That's live. And then there's the play, these games. And with your friends type of thing, and that's not allowed. So I 
Frank: [00:48:19] think that that's a really important distinction because it's really easy to make the Netflix analogy.
Um, with all of this, it's just happens that, you know, even Netflix has one of their videos is like a choose your own adventure kind of video. That's the game, you know, they control our stinks, but it's still a game. And, okay. So I was thinking. All the incentive now is on Microsoft to make, um, if they want to work on iOS or Google, if they want to work on iOS is to make a web version of these because you have a web version of YouTube.
We already discussed it. So we already know that the web can receive video. And display it. That's half of gaming. Yeah. The second half of gaming is I gotta send a control signal to that video. And I think what we're S um, I know the web has controller API APIs because I do it from, um, Oculus quest.
Programming, I do game controllers stuff there. So it really makes me wonder, um, how Safari is limited, because again, you can't write a web browser on iOS. It's not allowed you have to embed Safari into your app. So even if you're using Chrome on iOS, it's really just Chrome around Safari. And so it's, these barriers are there.
And as app developers, as people who want to be on the app stores, we're at their mercy because our only alternatives are, as you say, desktop apps, which just don't apply to mobile. Period. There's no way to, I guess people side load, but we're not gonna, we're not gonna count those people. And then the alternative is web, but what happens when the company controls both, they control the web and they control the app store.
Yeah. Tin, tin, foil hat off. 
James: [00:50:10] Yeah, it's a it's yeah, it's a we're on that one. Yeah. And that's newer because this is sort of some things that have come to light recently, because like I said, in my blog post, which was written before a lot of this announcements and I wasn't a Google stadia person, I just didn't really intrigued me that much.
I'm more of a Nintendo person. Uh, but you know, I liked the idea of, of going onto my computer, going onto my phone, Marta, my computer, but being able to say click and go. And I, and I have something that really entices me, um, For certain games that I want to play, especially just trying out stuff like on my PC, it tells you how to install.
And I got installed 18 versions of, you know, the.net framework or directory. That's true. Something like that. You're like, Oh God, what's going on. So I kind of like that. I thought that was really cool. But I mean, overall, like I said, I'm very pleasantly pleased by the switch back and forth from the apps.
And we walk away from the apps and the streaming service. We probably want some of that stuff is out. We should, we should actually try it ourselves and, and, um, and get into what's. What do we think about the future of gaming is that'd be fun. Little merge conflict. Okay. Are you 
Frank: [00:51:21] a write in and tell me which game to play?
Because I am so out of touch with which games are good. Well, 
James: [00:51:27] I'll look, I will get in and you know, I will, uh, we'll make sure that you have the, the gaining pass and all this stuff, and we'll try it, but let me talk about one final thing here. Cause there's a, there's lots of final things, but I don't want to go much longer, but I'll, let's end this on, uh, the worst part of iOS.
Oh, 
Frank: [00:51:44] okay. Well we'll end on a downer. Sounds good. What do you got? 
James: [00:51:47] It's the worst notifications. They're the worst hunk of junk ever that I've ever seen in an operating. So what is going on? Why are these so. Terrible frame. They're terrible. 
Can 
Frank: [00:51:58] I get my current, current pet peeve on it? I have a few test devices around in that a bunch that are actually charged and running and say, someone's like, you know, you're in a group chat and people are texting.
You're like, uh, turn off notifications, stop annoying me phone. Then it goes to the next device. Then you gotta turn, you know, moon mode on that device. Then it goes to my desktop computer. Then I got turned moon mode on my desktop computer. It's so weird that they don't have a concept of identity. And that me Frank, the person, the human being here does not want to be bothered by messages right now.
But they think of it as like a per device thing. It's so messed up. Huh? So that's what I currently hate about it. The other one that I hate is not so much. Apple's fault maybe necessarily, but it's the fact that you still can't filter things. Lyft is an app that I use and I keep notifications on because when I'm using Lyft, I definitely want notifications.
When I'm not using Lyft, they spend me, how can they help me during the COVID-19 crisis? And you're just like, no, no bad ad notification system. Okay. But it has improved since I was two. Okay. I'll say that much. Okay. What are your pets? 
James: [00:53:17] I come in from Android. I mean, Android notifications are spectacular.
They're layouts. Being able to see images, big images, the ability that notifications can also house music, playback and video playback controls, background, um, the grouping, the sorting. The ability to reply and do quick actions. Like I know I iMessage does have a quick reply, but it is terrible. It's disgusting.
Comparative. Yeah. It's not as bad if you didn't. Yeah. Is it even working? No one knows. 
Frank: [00:53:46] I've never triggered it when I wanted it to trigger and I accidentally trigger it all the time. 
James: [00:53:51] And the problem is, is how you know, on Android. It is, it is part of the, the dropdown sheet from the top. And then the notifications come down and they're grouped and you can expand them.
I have no idea how to expand them. They all group together like you're swiping. Yeah. All I do is just swipe away notifications. I don't even read them on iOS. They are just, and there there's a notification center and then also notifications on top of those. I'm like, why are there multiple types of notifications?
And, and, and you can't see if you even have notifications and just looking at your home, the screen, like on Android, they're in the top bar, like little app icons. And that's really important to know, like if there's vacations up there and I've turned off most notifications, by the way. And even the ones that I have on still upset me.
Uh, they're just really bad. And yeah, I wrote in my blog post that I from dub dub DC, I don't really see any improvements in coming in iOS 14. So maybe iOS 15, like 
Frank: [00:54:50] I just thought, I thought notifications as a concept, as an, as a software mechanism for communication was just a broken. Content invention should not have happened.
So I appreciate getting this perspective from you, honestly, that there might actually be a good implementation of this terrible, terrible idea from someone. 
James: [00:55:11] I don't want to say that. I don't want to say Andrew's implementation are perfect, but they are much, much better than this hunk of junk over here.
And I, and then, you know, uh, I feel sad about that because I have enjoyed. A lot of how Android notifications have gotten a lot better. Uh, you know, one of my favorite things on Android by the way, is that. Apps can run in the background, even with the app dismiss, which can be abused, but when you're listening to music, the cool part is that the music background streaming connected to the notification comparatively when I'm listening to music.
And if I swipe away the app, which I swipe way maps all the time, by the way, the music stops. How upsetting is that? You're listening to music. You swipe away the app and the music know what the heck just happened. Oh, it's because you know, the apps, not a lot of run and play music in the background. Like that's a bunch of shenanigans.
So there's quirks in the operating system of just inherently how it works. That does have me upset, but that being said, I said at the beginning of the podcast, Hmm, I messaged it's still worth $400. So, right. I said in the very end, I said, if I end on a good note, I feel a little bit more connected to my family since they're already iOS users and the, and the, the reverse could be true if you're an Android user and the rest of your family are Android users.
Right? So it's, it's, it goes either way, by the way. Um, only because at any time I can now click on a little button that says FaceTime and I can click your face and it just works. Yeah, and it doesn't work on Android. 
Frank: [00:56:46] None of this is new. Like these are all, if we had recorded the show in 2016, maybe we did.
I have to go look back probably. Yeah. I think we would have had so many similar complaints to all of this stuff, but definitely with the virus out there, I think it's just hitting us so much more in the face every day, because now we have discord Skype. Uh, w what's the one everyone else uses that I don't use zoom.
Venmo, I don't know. What do you use for video conferencing these days it's books, the twitches, we use so many pieces of media software that we can compare and contrast constantly. And we can see what our Skype's pros and cons versus zoom and all that kind of stuff. Um, unfortunately they all seem to have their own notification patient system.
So notifications is remains an unsolvable computer science problem. You know, it's naming things, cash and validation and notifications are. The three hard problems in computer science. I am now convinced. 
James: [00:57:50] That's very true. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's a good experiment to, just to see and. In, you know, the new iPhone will come out this fall, I assume.
And I won't be one that I upgrade to cause I just got this device. So it'll be fascinating like next year, when do I decide to upgrade on a two year cycle or maybe always stick with the se line when they do the third gen, if, if they do a third gen, then the only reason again, the, the biggest, uh, big perk I like here is that it is a great shape and design and I know the four ages came out.
And, um, and it's getting really good reviews. It's $349 and it has, you know, good camera, but the processing like the pixel to a, um, but you know, I still think that the form factor and that eco a little bit of the ecosystem, which is not API ecosystem, it's it's Apple ECOS system, you know, I think is the.
There's and it's a very, it's a very small sliver that, that the very small sliver of Apple ecosystem is I message. And face time, like, I think that that is, is it, and of course, if we're talking outside of the United States, um, this may be not be an issue, right. Um, if, when I went in to, uh, South America and I went to Cuba and visited, I went to other, uh, different countries.
Like in Asia, uh, you know, SMS thing is not a thing. It's people are doing video chats on different WhatsApp and all this stuff. Right. And it's not an issue like it is in the States, but for at least my generation or maybe this is my group of people and maybe not, it would be my generation of millennials for some reason in America.
Asset massing is just the thing that we do just normal text messaging compared to additional ones. Like I just hate other text messaging applications. I just want the one that's built into my phone. Like, that's the one that I want to use. Maybe the kids, the, the gen Z zeros. I think they are. Maybe they use something else.
I don't know. Maybe, you know, they're in other groups, I'd be fascinating, you know? Are you in the States? Are you in the UK? Are you in, in, uh, in Asia or wherever you're listening from? Like, you know, or any of these points that I made about I message and FaceTime you're like, okay, I don't use any of those things.
So it's not a big deal. I'd be fascinating to know, you know, um, compare and contrast. So drop us a note. I 
Frank: [01:00:05] bet you, it definitely is an American problem. Um, yeah, for sure. But I happen to love chat programs and I go through phases where if I just hear any. Particular communications program is popular. I download it, install it, create an account for it.
And then I attempt to convince at least one or two of my friends. Okay. Otherwise to also install such an app so that we can play with it. Otherwise I have no one to talk to on the app and I have learned so much about app design from. Uh, app design expectations. What you can do with an app. It's a really good way to kind of out of your mold.
So if you're ever bored or depressed, go download a cheat. Yeah. From a different country. Just go check it out. Cause they're always kind of interesting and fun. Didn't mean to make this about chat stuff, but you did make me think of one funny thing. It's impressive. How many Google apps you can use on iOS compared to how few Apple apps you can use on Android?
So you definitely see a, the director and power dynamic at play at the moment. 
James: [01:01:13] It's very true. I think you said it right. Like, I mean, all of the Microsoft apps are on both. Most of the Google apps are on both. Uh, I think only Apple music is on. Yeah. Yeah. And that's it's, uh, which is funny, but, uh, and that's only because they had beats music which turned into Apple music or whatever, uh, On on Android, I would say wouldn't have it.
The only other things they have are beats for your beats headphones and then move to iOS, which I did not use by the way. Funnily enough. Yeah. Oh, that's kinda cool. They actually can track. Oh, maybe I should do this. You can transfer your, Oh, you can transfer your. Messages your accounts and Oh, wow. That's cool.
Actually, I'm going to install this. Maybe I would like to message transfer my messages to IMSA. If it lets me do that. Um, that's cool. Apparently all there's all one star reviews and it doesn't work at all. So we'll see. But you know, even not doing so, I, I was able to move things over really seamlessly and log things in.
I will say alas advantage here is this iPhone has a touch ID. Remember those? Remember touch ID. 
Frank: [01:02:17] Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I did drop my phone into the Lake a few weeks ago and I got to go through all my test devices, trying the different form factors. So it's funny when you're talking about the shape of the phone and the size of the phone, I'm like, yeah, yeah.
I use some of my old test devices and they felt really good in the hand, especially even the smaller ones. Uh, but yeah, uh, those old ones had touch ID. It's not bad. It's not bad. I. I think I have gotten used to face ID. Is that what it's called? The app 
James: [01:02:49] face ID. Yeah. Yeah. It's uh, it's good. In the, uh, in the time of, uh, in the time of.
Uh, face masks in general. Yeah. 
Frank: [01:03:01] That's that's the worst, like face ID was just getting good and now it basically fails anytime I'm outside. So that's things. And they said they were going to make it faster. Like the fail was supposed to be faster. It was supposed to tap that you were wearing a face mask and bring up the password screen much quicker, but no mind just sits there.
Like what to do, man. What the heck are you wearing? What are you wearing, buddy? 
James: [01:03:24] Oh, I got a physical button so I can just unlock it anytime I want. Yeah. 
Frank: [01:03:28] Fancy. 
James: [01:03:29] You know, the only problem I have is maybe you can tell me, cause I did write in the blog post is, uh, you know, sometimes I ride my bicycle and I have a glove on and I can't use, I can't use touch ID.
How do you bring up the pin pad? 
Frank: [01:03:42] Yeah. Uh, you can get like a little applicator for your glove if you want, and it'll make a more conductive outer layer. You just need something that can conduct a little erm, field, or, um, there are gloves that are little funny gloves and you can pull off the little tummy part.
I think that's super cute. Um, but otherwise, um, maybe just, uh, see if it'll scan your nose. Try to see if it will take a finger print pattern that might work. Yeah. I wrote down, Oh man. Face ID is so much better. Yeah. Except we need mask ID. I'm hoping somehow Apple magically events, mask ID. 
James: [01:04:19] That'd be cool.
That'd be cool. All right. Well, I was going to do it for this week's podcast. We totally did an hour on this. Frank. 
Frank: [01:04:25] Remember I was wondering how we were going to do 30 minutes on this. Okay. I hope everyone enjoyed that rambling conversation of iOS versus Android and big business versus. Technological progress.
James: [01:04:38] That's right. And of course, thanks to our amazing sponsor this week. reaganReagan@reagan.com as I switched to switch over and get $20,000 in free credit. Thanks for Reagan once again, and that's gonna do it for this week's merge conflicts. So next time I'm Jay's Monza Magno 
Frank: [01:04:52] and I'm pregnant. Thanks for listening.