mergeconflict410
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[00:00:00] James: Uh, Frank Krueger, uh, you own an iPad Pro, correct? 

[00:00:04] Frank: Uh, yeah, I do. It's Is, is it still a pro if it's from a few years ago? Yeah, I do. I do. I'm pro man 

[00:00:12] James: in the name. It's like, it's an iPad Pro. Just my MacBook Pro. It 

[00:00:16] Frank: gives me pro. Is an iPad four pros or does it make you a pro? 

[00:00:22] James: No, not, you're definitely not a pro.

Not none of these things. Well, I mean it's, if you are a pro, you. Now, it can be more pro, but if you're not a pro, this doesn't just make you a pro, 

[00:00:38] Frank: right? Unless I'm part of the new generation growing up with iPads in which all my pro software happens on iPads. I was informed today. There you go. This, this is what the new generation is doing.

Oh, okay. Y James, I'm 

[00:00:52] James: in . You got the iPad Pro. I interested in, I'm intrigued how you used your iPad Pro. 

[00:01:02] Frank: I, I think the iPad is a wonderful device for pro users. I tend to use mine mostly for Twitter and browsing the web and playing with ice circuit and things like that. Um. You know, it's funny, the Pro on the iPad, I, I keep dwelling on it because I still find it a little bit funny because Pro software is tricky on the iPad because we, we've talked about the limitations of the OS constantly and over and over and with all their multitasking, with all their springboarding, I mostly still browse the web, do Twitter, and, uh, shop Amazon, sadly, uh, they really should take the Amazon app off of all iPads.

That'd be helpful to humanity. 

[00:01:49] James: I guess the question is to your point right there, before we get into the Apple event is. He said pro apps, right? What makes a pro app? Like all apps run on the iPad pro, right? What makes a pro app in my, in your opinion, Frank Krueger? 

[00:02:07] Frank: It's the constant thing. Is it a creation app or a consumption app?

In my mind, it's really quite that simple. Um, the iPad being a pro. Vaguely thin and now very thin screen, um, is a wonderful consumption device. You play all your videos, your videos are bigger than they would be on your phone cause your phone is small. They're smaller than they would be on your Vision Pro, but Vision Pros cost, uh, seven, seven iPads, 

[00:02:32] James: I believe is roughly the price of a Vision Pro.

17, 17 iPads. Well, it depends on which iPad, iPad 10th gen, 18, 18 iPads. 

[00:02:40] Frank: Yeah. Well, anyways, so a pro device to me is one where you can use it like the original computer was intended to create stuff. Um, do your word processing, take your, take your notes, uh, create circuits. It's a little sad that that's what the word pro has become, but for me, it really just means that you are creating content, not just consuming.

[00:03:03] James: Got 

[00:03:03] Frank: it. 

[00:03:03] James: I use, I have an iPad, but it is a old iPad. I don't even think it gets iOS 17. Uh, it's that old. Uh, and it's on my bicycle and it's, it's a good consumption. Heather has the iPad mini, which they didn't talk about. Shame on you, Apple. Got 

[00:03:20] Frank: one phrase, the mighty. Uh, iPad Mini, I believe, uh, Mr. Tim Cook said.

Oh, I missed that. I missed that completely. They didn't even show it though. They, he was going through the whole iPad lineup showing them. Did he even get a picture? Little Mini didn't even get a picture. A little bit of bias there, Apple showing through. 

[00:03:41] James: I cannot believe that, you know, and it's a good device.

I like it for travel. The, the little iPad. I actually think an iPad pro mini would be pretty cool. I've had mini pro. Ah, that'd be so cute. Uh, the 10th gen. So let's start there. So let's start at the consumption device and then let's, let's reverse this. Uh, we're going to Tarantino this event. Um, let's, let's start at the.

iPad, iPad 10th generation. So cute. Okay. Here's what I love about the iPad. This is the entry level iPad, 349, delectable, now, amazing, colorful. 

[00:04:21] Frank: It's, it's a great device for 349. Guess what? 95 percent of what you're going to do on the pro you can do on that 349 model. So, um, if you know someone who needs an iPad, that is a great place to start.

[00:04:38] James: Uh, entry level. 64 gigs and that goes up to 256. Okay. That's painful. 

[00:04:45] Frank: Oh God, Apple, geez, still cheap on the memory. I mean, we did a whole episode about me complaining about them being cheap on RAM. So we can at least talk a few minutes about them being cheap on the gigabytes of storage. Uh, they, they, we're gonna really Tarantino it and flash forward to a flashback in the episode.

They've announced the 2 terabyte version of the Pro. And so it's so funny to see like the 64 GB and a 2 terabyte. I'm like, oh, 

[00:05:15] James: it's 

[00:05:15] Frank: a little bit more of a magnitude off. 

[00:05:18] James: I mean, that being said. If you were buying this device for a parent or you were buying it for a kid or just, uh, on your, your, your bike or something like that, like a stationary bike, you know, 64 GB is, is, is good.

The problem is the jump from 64 gigabytes to 256 gigabytes is 150. So it goes from 350 great price to 500, which again, good price, but I'm just saying. You might as well just jump to the air, I guess at that point, cause the entry level air. 50 off. Yeah. That's like, yeah. Entry level air now is, okay, I'm going to look it up.

Order now. 100 more. 100 more, but you get, man, Apple. Ooh, purple. Purple starlight. You get 128. So you're getting in the middle, but you get the. The M chips, you know, you know, I just, I just feel like there there's trade offs everywhere we're going in this thing and it, and it upsets me. But that being said, um, you know, it's a device it's out there.

New price, 350. Good. It's got the landscape port. It's got the landscape camera. Everything's got the landscape camera. They're all landscape camera. Except mine. 

[00:06:29] Frank: Except mine. I still have the old pros. So it hurts every time he says it. Cause I got the, like the last generation where the camera's in the wrong place.

Yeah. No one holds these things in portrait mode. You hold it in portrait mode when you're walking between rooms or something, you know, you don't hold it. And the camera has always been in the wrong place. So I'm, I'm glad they're improving that. Yeah, I guess you're right. Once you start looking at the upgrades, the borders between these products become a little bit weird.

I always found that air moniker on the iPad to be a little weird. Right. The iPad has always been an Air device. It's always been light and wifi based and all of that. Like I, I thought the product line was a little complex with iPad, iPad Air, iPad Pro, iPad mini. Uh, I don't really know why they have the Air.

Distinction, or then they just need to call it something and make it sound. I don't know. It was the first time also I noticed in the, uh, Apple presentation where they said, the error is where we always take pro features and then. Sell them to you at a cheaper price a few years later. Have they ever actually said that?

Because like, that's what I've considered always like the iPad product. The Air to me always seemed like a semi premium device. Uh, I mean, obviously the Pro has been the premium, premium device, but it was weird to hear that Air, uh, model downgraded to, yeah, we're, we're, it's just the hand me downs from the Pros from last year.

[00:08:07] James: I feel as though that's like the un, unsaid rule of a lot of Apple products, right? Like the iPhone, this, the next year gets the chip of the pro and then some of the pro features. I don't think they've ever said it. You're right. And what's fascinating on this one is that they actually trickled down a few other, um, features as well, like the pencil pro and a few other features there too.

The fascinating part about this. Air model. And they did this, did they do this with the, the Mac book too? They might have, is that the iPad air is heavier than the iPad pro. Okay. Well, 

[00:08:47] Frank: that just stinks. Yeah. Well, I don't think that'll be the case this year. They were quite proud of the pros this year, but, um, 

[00:08:55] James: yeah, I, I guess what I'm saying is the, the new, the new iPad air is heavier than the new iPad pro.

It's heavier. Yeah, It's happier! 

[00:09:06] Frank: Pros don't have big muscles. Pros have small muscles. You know, they need lighter devices. Pros are busy typing. No time for the gym. 

[00:09:15] James: Okay so. Is that the logic? The The, the iPad Air is like the, the, the messy middle device, right? It's kind of like the MacBook Air, to be honest with you.

It is, it doesn't have as good as cameras, you know, it doesn't have the true depth camera, it doesn't have Thunderball, it's got the touch ID, it doesn't got the face ID, you know, it's got a few speakers, got the stuff. It's pretty much the device that I would buy because. Uh, it's, you know, cheaper entry price.

I like the 11 inch, you know, if I was, I was coming in, I'm not buying one of these devices. I, by the way, I, I don't like to, I don't like the tablets at all. I'm just not a fan. I don't like, I don't like, uh, as a personal device, I don't like Android tablets, I don't like iPads, uh, not even, don't even like the, the Surface devices.

I think they're beautiful Surface devices, but I'm not a fan of the tablet, the Pro. If I was getting the Surface Pro versus the Surface Laptop 4, Surface Laptop 4. All day. Love it. Got a similar device, but then I'm a form factor type of guy. So I'm just not a tablet person. I have one because I just have one from my development days.

I got to have one sitting around. It's a good consumption device on the road, but I could also just do it on my phone. You know, it's a little bit nicer, bigger, uh, for airplane stuff, but there's that. Um, but I think that, you know, They only, they only spent this much time on the iPad Air. So maybe we should spend that much time on the iPad Air.

It's a nice colors, smaller, lighter M2. What do you think, Frank? Is this your new, is this faster than your pro? What's in your pro? The M2? Oh, it is. It 

[00:10:49] Frank: is. It is. 

[00:10:50] James: Because the Air 

[00:10:51] Frank: is an M2 now, right? Yeah, yeah. I spent that whole episode complaining about Apple RAM. Amounts. Uh, praising the M1 Pro iPad I have.

Yeah, I believe that's the model number. Uh, because it is. It's, it's, we both really like the M1 processor. It's a good processor. I don't have personal experience with the two, the three. Or now the four. But, uh, I assume that they're two times, three times, and four times better than the M1. And the M1 being amazing makes those, you know, four times as amazing, I assume.

It's tricky what they say, because like, I don't think it was Tim Cook, but someone said something like, compared to the original, A14 based iPad Pro. It's three times faster, 10 times faster. Sorry, everyone, please look up these numbers. Who can remember Apple marketing? Um, thousand times faster. Yeah.

Thousand times faster. It's, it's, it's a great chip. Like, honestly, I could go spend. By the minimum iPad air right now. And it would be better than my iPad pro right now. So I actually do think it's a good device. And didn't they announce, is this the first 13 inch iPad air? 

[00:12:12] James: It is. Yeah. So this is the first time the iPad air is coming in.

It was always just one flavor before. Yeah. Now they have the 11 inch and the 13 inch, not to be confused with the previous 12. 9 inch. Nope. We don't want that 13 inches this time. We're going full 13 inches, keeping it simple. You know, it's kind of funny. The iPad pro did go through an evolution of 9. 7, 10.

5, and now 

[00:12:37] Frank: 13. 

[00:12:38] James: Uh, very fascinating. Maybe the iPad mini, I bet it's just not selling. It's just like the iPhone mini, like that little, little great device. People just love. People still have huge devices. I don't 

[00:12:48] Frank: know. Well, I'll say when I had the 12. 9 inch iPad Pro, um, it was a great device, but it was too big.

It was too big for like sitting on the couch. It was, it felt like this huge weight on me, even though for years I've had laptops and I would have a 13 inch laptop sitting on my legs when I'm on the couch. But at the same time, the, just holding this 13 inch screen always felt a little bit big to me. And so I let my 12.

9 Go. That said, um, it is a distinguishing factor being that kind of bigger, bigger, bigger iPad. If you're doing photography and you want previews, you kind of want a huge iPad to look at your previews on. You almost want, because the phones have gotten so big, James, you want like the iPad, just the contrast, because you know, you get an iPad mini and you get the biggest iPhone.

You're like, huh. Not too much of a difference between these two devices. So I think with the, uh, bezel becoming much smaller and everything, I am very tempted toward the 13s. I think when I do finally buy another new iPad, it probably won't be this generation, but I probably will go for the big screen.

[00:14:06] James: Yeah, I look at that even like on bikes and things like that. I said, yeah, there's a lot of like stationary bikes that have different size screens, or when you're in a car, you have different size screens. It's sort of the same thing. There is a sweet spot in screen size. Like in my personal opinion, I think the Tesla screens are too big, but then also sometimes it is nice to have a little bit more data, you know, uh, I felt like I was in the eye on, uh, iconic or whatever, which was a nice vehicle.

The screen was good, but then maybe could have been just different proportions. You know what I mean? The proportions are also important as, as well, because if you have a, a bigger, you know, uh, device, the aspect ratio is more like 16 by nine ish. Then it's going to, you know, just feel a little bit different.

So the, the two by three is like an important device. I always thought that the, I always really enjoyed the, the surface products because of the two by three. I just think it's a great proportion. Just iPad, right? It's more of a two by three and less of a 60 by nine, which does mean that when you watch videos and you're consuming content, many more Black bars, right?

Unfortunate. 

[00:15:10] Frank: Oh, we're just never, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you can't win. You do. I was watching, oh gosh, what was I watching? Some modern movie. And they had to switch aspect ratio, like every scene, it felt like. The bars shifted with every scene. And usually I'm not sensitive to it. Like I don't notice the aspect ratio changing, stopping weird directors.

But this time I noticed, I'm like, what is going on? The bars are all over the place. I'm like, I give up. You know what? Some directors shoot in 4x3 now. What was that funny Snyder cut of the Batman movie done in black and white 4x3 just to trip you up for a little bit. Guts 

[00:15:50] James: too. Yeah. It, it, anyways, I agree.

It's very fascinating, um, to see the evolution of aspect ratios and how the devices try to overcome them. Luckily the 2x3 is like a little bit nicer. Um, so iPad Air, good device. Great thing. Let's talk about quantum OLED technology. And by quantum, I mean, two got, they got, they don't have just one OLED.

They got two OLEDs in this thing. One wouldn't be good enough. Two. I gotta 

[00:16:19] Frank: say, this one I'm a little sensitive about, for, and the cat's chiming in, the cat's sensitive about it too, for years. Okay. Look, the phone has stagnated. The iPad has stagnated. They're good products. We all like them. We buy them, but you know, they've been around for a while.

All I've wanted. It's an iPhone with a screen on both sides. I don't need the camera. I'm, I'm over cameras. Life is boring. I don't need to photograph it. Um, I just want a device that has screens on both sides. So there is no up, there is no down. I think it'd be beautiful. But then you have to have two displays, James.

So what does Apple announce today? We are doing OLED on the iPad. And unlike all those giant OLED TVs that are plenty bright enough out there, one OLED is not good enough for us. It's not, no, not this. Our 

[00:17:14] James: pro users would never forgive us. 

[00:17:17] Frank: No, no, 

[00:17:18] James: 500 

[00:17:18] Frank: nits, not enough, 700 nits, get out of town. We need a thousand nits.

Okay. Thousand nits minimum. And to do that, we are literally going to put two OLED screens on top of each other, which I don't fully get how transparency works between them, but fine, Apple, fine. Put your two OLED screens on there to get 1000 nits of standard, uh, Definition 1500 in HD. And it's really hard to get your app into HD mode and it drives the battery nuts.

So don't bother. But cool, cool. Apple thousand nits. We're there, baby. 

[00:18:00] James: Yeah. I did think that that was really unique. Uh, I do think it's unique that they did that. And at the same time, Made this the thinnest Apple device ever created, which it is extremely thin. Uh, I'm very, very impressed. I think it's thinner than I have a, one of those, if you're watching on our YouTube, youtube.

com forward slash at MergeConflict. com I have a foldable keyboard. You've seen these before, and I think it's thinner than this. I don't have a measuring tape with me, but I think folded it is at least about the same size or thinner perhaps. It's a nice keyboard, by the way. Yeah. Thank 

[00:18:36] Frank: you. We all need Bluetooth keyboards with our, uh, air devices and our visions and things like that.

Bluetooth keyboard. Exactly. It'd be big. Yep. Uh, yeah. Okay. So what? We've got a cool OLED screen. Amazing. And then they slimmed it down, which is cool. Good, because they are competing with laptops. Uh, I, I have the, uh, uh, MacBook Air, and I have an iPad. And when I put the keyboard on the iPad, they're about the same thickness.

And so when I'm debating which one am I going to travel with, I take the computer because It has, well, it used to have Visual Studio for Mac on it. Now it has Rider, but I can do all my development work on it. Uh, whereas I can't fully do all that stuff, sadly, on the iPad right now. Uh, so the, the size really does matter.

And this is the one time I think. We all used to complain, like, we want battery life, not thinness. I think that was happening around the 2015s or 2016s, but I, I've come full back around to, yeah, I want thin. I want it to be light. I want it to be like a piece of paper. I want it to get lost in the shuffle of things.

And so I, I really applaud. This effort, we, we don't need an iPad that weighs as much as a laptop. That is not what it should be. The, the pro, even though it's not a name, should be light as air. That's what it should be. 

[00:20:06] James: No, I agree. You know, and, and so much so, you know, that. To be able to accomplish this, they decided to skip M3 and go straight to M4 and create a whole new chip for this puppy, which kind of gives us maybe some insight into what the screens and things will be in the MacBook Pro later on, because this new M4 processor, obviously one greater than three.

Two times greater than M2, uh, it actually has an entire display processing unit for these OLEDs. Right. So like in to actually run these things, the M4 for power efficiency and thermals and all these other things. Has a special piece. Now, this is really the power of Apple, uh, hardware and, and Silicon working together, right?

They're designing, they're able to design a specific part of the board and the chip and all the things for this device, right? I mean, that's really, really, really fascinating, uh, for them to do. Uh, but what it also means is that. Because they wanted to make it so thin, they went to a second gen three nanometer chip that they can squeeze out the performance and also tune up the thermal dynamics.

They can tune up the, uh, um, um, the power consumption on this thing, which to your point means that they somehow achieved super thinness and apparently super great battery life as well. And also being super powerful. So I will give them, you know, hats off for this and it makes sense. It seems like now, um, I'm not sure how they're distinguishing between the M series of being like, is now the M4 chip that's going to be like in the next MacBook Pro?

Are we going to skip it? Go to the M5? Or is it going to still be this? And now they got to update the, you know, screens or whatever. Or maybe those go to the Pro Max models or whatever on the, on the new MacBook Pros. But, uh, it's very, very interesting to see how they sort of went down this path. But it makes sense at the same time.

Like those chips, the M3s, Launched with, you know, the MacBook Pro. So now we have a special chip, special things for the, the, the iPad Pro. 

[00:22:10] Frank: Yeah. Um, I gotta be honest. I still find it a little odd that it's not some variant of the M3. Cause like, okay, you're a microprocessor designer. Okay. You, you build, uh, these very big, complex logic circuits that a program then shoves down into the transistor level and lays them out into a cute little rectangular pattern.

So that you can go spend millions of dollars to have them fabricated onto silicon and you get a chip out of it. Chips are fun. Everyone should go manufacture a chip someday. The, the manufacturing process is what we call the process technology. It dictates the size of the transistor, the thickness of all the wires that are going to be throughout it, the kind of etching processes that you use, which dictates what kind of materials you can use, which dictates everything else.

It is really weird to me. I'm assuming that architecturally, logically, this M4 chip is basically an M3, it's got the same functional units. They were very clear to say, it's just a new process technology. So it's really weird for me that they upped the entire processor version, M3 to M4, just for a change in the process technology.

If that changed the size of the transistors, I would totally get it, but it sounds like the size is the same. It sounds like it's just a different process. Uh, I, I do really want to look into it because I find it fascinating from an engineering perspective that the process technology shift was big enough that they felt the need to fully rebrand this processor.

Not call it an M3 error or something like that, but to actually just call it full out an M4, which. Really just makes me think that they're abandoning the old process. We're going to this process for everything else, because they said numbers that are honestly a bit crazy. Uh, they said if they ran it at the performance specs of the M2 that's currently in the iPad air, that it ran 50 percent slower.

Whatever, more efficient, less power, uh, running at those performance specs. It's only when it beefs itself up to run two OLED screens that it needs all the power and everything. Uh, so anyway, I, I just want to say it's, it's, it's weird to me. It doesn't a hundred percent make sense to me that we go from X, M3 to M4, just from a process change.

But if the transistor size changed, if they had to relay things out, I guess it makes sense. And yeah, these things have always had GPUs on them, but now I guess they have to have an OLED driver. Is this stuff like DRAM? Do you have to keep clocking the OLED pixels? Like, hey, you're still awake. Keep displaying.

Stay awake. Stay awake, pixel. And they just have to do that to every pixel. I, I don't fully understand why you need, uh, on chip. driver for the screen are then it's obviously cost efficient for them. And very cool that they can just put it on the chip. 

[00:25:12] James: Is true, yeah. I was, I was assuming that it would just have the M3 or some variant of it.

Like I think it would be the M3 S cause you know they used to have like the four S five S blah, blah, blah, right? It's kind of like the jump in between or X or whatever, bionic. Uh, what they would do. I'm really surprised they did that just because here's, here's the, here's the rub. Now only this iPad pro has the most powerful chip.

Now probably the M three pro M three max are probably more powerful than this, but I'm just, I just like, let's say you just bought a Mac book air, right? You got the M three. You're like, that was a great, amazing. Now there's this device that's cheaper by the way, than my Mac book air. Grant doesn't have the keyboard and you're like, Oh, it has a way better process than me.

What the heck? Now, I understand people, everyone listening, everyone watching on the internets, that processor technology evolves, and anytime you buy something, immediately it's out of date. Totally. However, it feels like maybe it was six months ago. You know what I mean? Yeah. Um, so that's, I feel like it's a, it's a, it's a dig, uh, a little bit to, uh, some recent Mac book.

Purchase serves, if you will. 

[00:26:22] Frank: It is. It's just weird branding, you know? Yeah. You, you want to make people feel good about the product. Like I I'm still shopping around for Mac studios and that's using what, like an ancient M2 or something that it's like from 20 years ago or something. I believe, uh, and then there's a huge difference where you put these chips and how much power you supply to them.

You could take the same chip. And run it at half the clock cycle, half the power, and it'll run half as well, you know. Uh, whereas you can take the same chip, put a heatsink on it, and giant fan, and just shove all the power through it that it can handle, and clock that baby up. Uh, we'll never do that on the iPad.

No fan. Super thin. They have a copper Apple logo now dissipating the heat from the processor. Smart. I'm down for that. I want, I want, I want that. 

[00:27:23] James: That, that was my favorite, I think, actually, surprisingly, that may have been my favorite part of the entire event of the underwhelming event that I was at today, watching on YouTube.

That probably was, I was like, Oh, that's smart. I like that. I'm like, wow, that's cool. 

[00:27:40] Frank: I was told you, I have that app. When the app misbehaves, you find out where the microprocessor is on the phone real fast. Um, and this, this is kind of the same thing. I wonder if they're actually putting the processor right behind the Apple logo and using that as a heat sink.

If so, rad, I, I, I kind of want to get like some flir, you know, Goggles and take a look at one of these iPads running my misbehaving pieces of software. 

[00:28:09] James: Now, beyond that, I actually think if you flip the device back over, something that they mentioned it's only available in the one and two terabyte models is, uh, specifically the nano texture display glass option, which seemed.

Like they should have talked about it more and then didn't. I can't even find it on the website, but. 

[00:28:30] Frank: They're tying that to the storage option, James. That was my incredulous Apple voice. I can't believe I still have one. I can't believe I can still be incredulous toward Apple, but. That's hilarious. If someone wants a diffuse iPad, matte finish, whatever we call that, give and they want to spend 300 extra for it.

Give it to them. Oh, that's funny. So you got to get the hard drive upgrade. I've never actually seen any of these micro. Texture. I don't have good monitors. Someday I will have a good monitor but I don't have any micro quantum led textured screens or anything so I don't know if they're worth it. But I will say I'm, I'm pretty over the glossy iPad screen, so I would definitely take a look at how much one of those costs.

[00:29:26] James: Yeah, I definitely thought it was pretty cool. I can't really find a lot of reference to it, like on the website and everything else. It does make it so the minimum entry price. Oh, here it is. Nanotexture glass, brilliant in any light. Nanotexture display glass is a new option. That's perfect for high end color managed workflows for the most demanding ambient light environments, precisely etched at a nanometer Scale nanotexture glass maintains image quality and contrast while scattering ambient light for even less glare.

Anytime at nano. Is used more than eight times in one paragraph. You know, it's pretty dope. I'm just saying, uh, minimum entry price is 2, 000 for that device. 2, 000. 

[00:30:08] Frank: Oh, geez. Okay. This is the problem with the iPad pro. It costs us more than a laptop. Yeah. Now 

[00:30:15] James: they did say, they, they did say when you attach this to your new back book, magic, whatever.

It can become pretty much your MacBook Pro. They basically said it. They're like, Hey, that's what we're going for. We want it to replace your MacBook Pro. That's what they said. They said it. Yeah, 

[00:30:35] Frank: they're going to have to 

[00:30:36] James: improve 

[00:30:36] Frank: Springboard for that because of course there is a new 350 Magic Keyboard to go with it.

And the Magic Keyboard has haptics in the touch pad. I believe it has aluminum, some kind of metal. I don't know why, I don't know why. Uh, like keep, keep it thin and light, Apple. I, I, I still feel like the Magic Keyboards make them too thick. Still, I think that's when they get up to laptop rage. And I don't think that the software can still compete with a laptop just yet, um, sadly.

That makes me really sad to admit that. Apple certainly spent what, like, I don't know, felt like three or four days covering their, their movie production and audio production apps. Cause you know, all we do, maybe you do, cause I don't edit this podcast, but I don't edit video that much either. And I, I've, I've never felt like one of those video editing people.

Or an audio. Oh gosh. I'm just not a pro user because I don't make movies, James. I don't make movies and therefore this is not a device for me, I think. And because I don't want to spend 200, 2, 000 on an iPad. 

[00:31:54] James: Yeah. The coolest part that they did show with Final Cut Pro, I think is that they, you can connect four iPhones.

There's a Final Cut, uh, camera. That was cool. I think that was super deep. Bye. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I could, cause you know, I'm in the studio. Yeah. No, I'm in, I'm in the, I'm in the studio, uh, often and like cam and golden as this stuff, like channel nine, like I could see them doing some, now they have red cameras.

So it's like, they're that, but if they're on the field, imagine replacing, for example, like these big cameras with this. I thought that was really neat in real time. Again, It feels like a very niche case that they're talking to, but they are trying to talk to the pro user inside of here. So I do understand.

And I mean, it's not, it's not only that they have a, they have a pencil that's pro. Everything is pro. It's a pro pencil. It's something we can't even get for this. Everything's pro. 

[00:32:54] Frank: American jobs, and you look up what are the top American paying professions. Movie camera man's not one of the top professions earners.

I mean, I'm sure they do well, but there's just not that many people. It's your lawyers, it's your doctors. You know, I wanted to see more lawyer apps. I want to see more doctor apps that they're advertising. For example, they made this, uh, That's pro, you know, movie producer. Is that pro? I thought that was artist.

I'm getting confused. What's art and what's profession these days, you know, but. Those are art professions. Who am I? Those are creatives, creatives. 

[00:33:30] James: That's not us. We're not creative. Yeah. We just, 

[00:33:33] Frank: I, I'm glad they finally did give at least a shout out to the students what they had. Uh, good, good notes. Is that the name of it?

I, I feel like I'm getting old here. I'm forgetting all the note taking apps. Good notes. Um, at least they had that because, you know, I, I see a lot of iPads and students' hands and they're taking notes. 'cause that's what it's really amazing at doing. So it was good that they showed those kind of things.

But I think this Apple obsession with music production and video production is just the worst. So much so that they come out with this gorgeous, new, thin iPad, and yet it still has the camera wart on it. Because we still need those 1950s movie cameras on my iPad. Because to be a pro means you Shoot video, I guess.

And I just find it absurd to take, take the stupid or put a tiny little pinhole camera on it, like it used to have and give me my flat surface back. 

[00:34:24] James: This is my problem with this event is that I. As a consumer, as a non creative pro. Okay. Now, I mean, I do think those pro days hearkened back to the MacBook pro with like, you know, uh, basically like musicians and artists like doing that.

And I, that was like really where the roots were, right. That kind of elevated MacBook and this cool thing. You're, you're a musician, you need a MacBook. Right. But I think as a consumer, I'm a consumer. This event didn't feel like it was for me. And I don't know if it's like the first time I'd have to go back, but I was watching it and I go, Oh, this event doesn't feel like it's an event actually for me, for these devices, because so little time was spent on devices that I would actually buy.

And I'd have to go back and watch other iPad events, but. I do feel as though we got, you know, new iPad pro, we got a new iPad pro pencil. We got a new, you know, foldable, uh, keyboard pro device. It's all pro. Right. And I feel as though, yeah, I'm a professional, I'm a professional person that does stuff, but I felt as though the time spent on.

Air and the other devices and the family devices and even iPadOS didn't really feel like it was for me because 10 minutes of the videos, 38 minutes long or so, 36 minutes long, 10 minutes were on final cut pro and the, the, the audio one, the audio, whatever it's called a thing. And, and to me, Cool. I'm never going to do any of that.

Like how many people are actually doing that to your point compared to the, they, they demoed it for a second. They said, Oh, now you can take your, they showed the, the, the, the, the Showtime thing where you can, you can plug it in and it basically can become a MacBook. And did that get good all of a sudden?

I don't know, but like, maybe it did like, Oh, we made this. It's so powerful that it can run. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right? Like, Oh, now that would be kind of like, now we're talking pro is like, for me, pro means I w I'm, am I replacing my, my laptop? I can take this, I can take the Frank's house, plug it in, get some real code.

Oh, and they're like, Hey, guess what? Also we developed a VPN software. So you got your Mac book at home or your Mac book, and now you can use that on your, you know, on your freaking. You know, iPad, iPad pro. When you're, when you're on the go, you can connect back so you can plug into X code and you can do your real development.

Oh here's what we also did. We enabled the iOS simulators to tunnel to your iPad pro when it's in this mode. So you can do pro development, like I get it, that's for maybe WWC, but I'm just saying Apple, these are free ideas. I'm just handing them out. Now, now that being said, like. Or is it like, Hey, you're a pro streamer, video game streamer.

They talk about games a lot. Oh, well actually we partnered up with OBS or with Twitch studio. And now you can stream your games. It has a pro blah, blah, blah, and you can plug in an external XLR mic. And now you're, you're a, you know, a fricking streamer. On this thing, because it can power everything. I'm just saying like there's much more than just audio video.

And for me, since I'm not in that realm, because I use Camtasia and I use audacity for audio editing. And now I just actually, here's what I actually do is I take the audio files and I drop it into. Adobe . Adobe Podcast. Podcast, AI Magic, . And now I'm done. You know what I mean? Like literally, that's how I edit this podcast now, and they don't even do anything.

I'm basically useless. You know, the AI just takes care of it in general. And then all of the AI features, they did mention AI more than ever. They kept mentioning ml. Yeah, sneaky. Sneaky. No one, no one wants to talk about ml. Don't do that. Apple. We only care about ai. Only ai. Everything else get out. Okay.

They did mention AI more than ever, good on them. They did mention that, Hey, we've been doing AI forever, silly kids. Um, but you know, we get it. But a lot of the AI stuff they demoed again was only for pro features. Like, Hey, you're, you're obviously editing real time video and you need to completely blank out the back blah, blah, blah, blah.

I don't need to do that.

[00:38:33] Frank: Yeah. And I, I, I like that network. I know exactly what network they're using. I was using it in my own app there. I'm like, yeah, it really does run real time. It's really cool. Runs real time on an M1. It just takes a little more GPU kicking. Um, I've always said Apple's positioned themselves perfectly for AI.

And I think they missed the boat last year. Um, I didn't think they knew last year was the AI year. Uh, so we got VR instead, but I think they got the memo this year and I think they're prepping for it. I think it's going to be a huge WWDC where they're going to light up, uh, hopefully a lot more of these features, uh, because one thing they announced in this M4, you know, has more neural engines than any other iPads ever had.

But One thing I've learned developing for the neural engine is, Apple's not very clear about what a neural engine is these days. As far as I can tell, there's roughly like three different neural engines out there, each with different capabilities. There's the early one, There's the one that's on the iPhone, and then there's the one that's on the M series of processors.

And they have different capabilities. And none of it is exposed at an API level, so it's really hard to develop for. So I get a little bit frustrated every time they're talking about, like, bumping up the neural engine. I'm like, good for you, Apple, but, uh, it, it would be nice if you would open up the neural engine so we could actually use it.

A or B actually document the neural engine so that again, ca we could use it . So I like the GPU. We can use, uh, GPU's easy to program things run on it. You give us more. GPU apps benefit. You give apps more neural engine. Very few apps benefit because very few of us are able to get our networks to actually run on the neural engine.

And aside from that, we can't count on the neural engine because like I said, there's just weird variations on it out there on random hardware devices. Anyway, that, that, that's my AI complaint, but at least they are checking the box for 

[00:40:45] James: now. Box checked. And I, yeah, this is a precursor to DubDub in a month.

It'll be everywhere. You know, we got Google IO, we got Build, we got DubDub. This'll be more of the year of AI than, than ever. Uh, which is fascinating. Uh, yeah. AI year part two. Okay. We are only, Frank. You know, you've been doing it for a long time. So you were like, you know, in the infants, the, the very infant, the, the, the very, very beginning, right?

So the, you were barely even able to like roll your body around. Now we're just, we're still crawling. You know, we haven't even, we, we are, we're on our bellies crawling. We're not even, we're not even like. Look at it. Try to walk. No, we're getting there. We're, we're, we're, we're, we're nowhere close to be even standing yet, in my personal opinion on the AI wave of things.

Mm-Hmm. , because there is, there's also so much learning that has to happen. There's so much new actual SDKs and APIs and infrastructure that needs to be out there. So there's lots happening. This, I think this is gonna be a long, long, long. You know, journey over many, many, many years. And then eventually what will happen is the things that we're talking about now, we'll just sort of be there.

You know what I mean? Like in general, all this stuff that they're talking about, of course, of course it just does that, right? Of course it will automatically clean my, like, here's the thing. Right now, for example, I got to take my audio file. I got to drop it into a website. It's got to do something.

Eventually my windows PC. We'll just fix all my audio for it. And you already see that like in teams, there's like a few things that are in there, but eventually. Everybody, there'll be a podcast mode. It's like, Oh, I see you're podcasting. In fact, it'll be so smart, Frank. It's going to say, Oh, I noticed that you have a webcam on, you have a microphone.

Oh, are you po Oh, I've noticed you're podcasting right now. Interesting. Let me just make your audio awesome. You know what I mean? Like that type of stuff, it'll just happen. Now we're not there yet, but we're going to, we're going to get there in the next few years. I'm very excited about that, by the way.

And it'll be like the reason I buy. New hardware and I'm like, I'm on the cusp. I'm like, so ready to buy new hardware. But then I'm like, but I'm just gonna try to make this thing last forever. And that's the problem with the iPad. Right? Like when in your mind would you ever even get a new iPad Pro? You know what I'm saying, like 10 years.

I know exactly when I'll get it. 

[00:43:15] Frank: It's when the battery stops lasting or the screen breaks or something. Cause that's when I replaced the last one. Um, Apple has a real problem with the iPads because the software has kind of stagnated on it that all these improvements to it don't matter. You can go get an M1.

It'll be fine. Definitely go get an Air. If you're rich and you love OLED and nanotechnology, go get the Pro. But you know what? Air is fine. I mean, honestly, the 349 iPad is fine. Um, because they're rock solid devices. They're very mature at this point. All the, all the good apps are going to run very well on them.

Um, so I do love all my iPad pro upgrades. Sorry, I want to get back to AI, but I'll, I'll just finish. I, I love all my iPad pro upgrades, but, um, I probably won't be buying this one. Nope. Because, uh, the old one still works absolutely just fine. 

[00:44:11] James: Yeah, it is the problem. I think it's the thing with my, my MacBook.

I even, you know, I was trying to Heather a lot about this. I was like, ah, you know, it'd be great to get a new M3 MacBook Air. They look beautiful. You know, I just can't justify my mind. It's hard. I mean, that, that to me is we just did an episode by the way, just about how we like to tinker with toys and all these things, but also a lot of times those and true.

Entry prizes for like these little things are much cheaper. I can throw a hundred bucks, 200 bucks here, you know, to more often to kind of tinker with things, but these are big purchases, right? When you're talking about 1500, 2, 000 for an iPad pro, I couldn't, I could never imagine, I could never imagine my mind ever buying an iPad pro ever, ever.

It doesn't make any sense in my life. Not, not ever. You know, that's why I think the iPad mini made the most sense. I was like, Oh, this is like, this is small. This is the thing. It's just like a phone, but a little bit bigger. Um, where I don't, but I'm only carrying it around in the cage because I don't want a bigger phone.

I want a smaller phone. You know what I mean? Uh, in general, this is my personal opinion. They don't need to get any bigger. They barely fit in my pocket as is. Keep them small. Um, Well, no mini, could you imagine if the mini got the thin treatment? That'd be so cool. That'd be so nice. That'd be so nice.

Here's the thing that I was waiting for, Frank, talking about AI. I was waiting for them when they were demoing the i, uh, the, the pen, Apple Pen Pro. I was waiting for them to say, and we've also put a neural chip in this, that will predict, like, I thought they were going to do some AI crap in the, the pen where you tell me you weren't waiting for.

I was waiting for it. Cause they're just called this huge AI blitz. No, I won't do it. AI. I, I was waiting for them to be like, and what we did is we added a microphone and you just triple tap and just ask chat GPT anything. And it will, it will, you hover. Here's what, here's what you do. You hover the Apple pen pro over a notes taking app and it will dictate back.

It will write for you. What chat GPT could tell you? Now that Apple, now that's AI. 

[00:46:08] Frank: Well, you know, the processor in the Apple Pencil Pro is more powerful than the Apollo flight computers. So 

[00:46:15] James: the processor in that, in the Apple, Apple Pencil Pro, pineapple pen, uh, Is definitely more powerful than that Rabbit R1 or whatever, I guarantee ya.

It's, it's, I'm shocked they weren't like, now the Apple Pen Pro powered by an M1 chip. Like, shut up, Apple, shut up. It only 

[00:46:37] Frank: comes with 64 GBs of storage. 

[00:46:41] James: Entry. Don't worry. Don't worry. We put a 28 megapixel camera in it. Shut up, Apple. Ah, just, just, all you gotta do is wave. And then it will take a photo. 

[00:46:52] Frank: Okay.

Um, no, I'm sorry. I just, I, I have to say, I have to defend the pencil for one moment because I actually do like the silly rotation feature. Um, I could, I could take advantage of that in my apps, but you can't, because you can't rely on someone for having a pro. Level Pencil product as an attachment to your app.

Uh, good for you Procreate adding your crooked brushes. 

[00:47:17] James: I just wanted to say that I like the rotation feature. It's cool. It's cool. It's great. I'm a big fan. Big fan. Big fan of the pen. So they're all good. I'm holding one in my hand. If you're watching on YouTube. Um, not that I'm just, this is a generic, uh, uh, pen from a winery.

What we use, Wine Gets Me, says Wine Gets Me. Pen Creative and Mini. Tenth generation. Um, okay. Let's get, let's get back. Let's end at the beginning because while this was an iPad event, your beloved Vision Pro made an appearance, sir. It's all about the Vision Pro made about 30 seconds. How did you, how'd you feel?

[00:48:01] Frank: I gotta say, this had to be the worst part of the whole thing, because they gave it the, uh, Microsoft treatment, the HoloLens treatment, which is like, yeah, consumers aren't quite figuring out what to do with this thing, but check out what a megacorporation can do in a research and development group. See what these young college graduates are doing in VR to do their engineering.

And they're like, Oh God, are we really doing this? Like, this has always been the bad VR commercial when they have to show corporate employees using it to design. Let's face it. A car, a car whose whole, the whole way you design a car. Hi, I'm going to show you how a car is designed. You're an engineer.

You're fresh out of college. Someone's like, design a car. You're like, great, here's a car. And they're like, no, make it cheaper. And you're like, oh, okay. And then you remove a bunch of things. They're like, no, no, you're not getting me cheaper. And then you remove a bunch of things and you make them out of plastic instead of metal, and you go to your boss, look, I made it cheaper.

And they're like, no, you're not getting me Frank. One 10th of that price. That's how you design a car, okay? That's how cars are designed. This is, I just love, I love seeing automotive people in VR designing cars because that's not how you do it. You are cost cut, cost cutting every 50 cent wire you can in a car to make it cheaper, and I just love the disconnect between Apple's pro, pro, pro vision, pro world and how they think things are actually built.

Anyway, uh, I, I'm, I'm glad auto manufacturers are finding a use for it. Uh, Please, uh, download my 3D holographic video app when it's finally out there. Until then. 

[00:49:45] James: Here's what happened. They, this was an indicator to me. Now they could, they could, they could in a month, they could flip this around. This was the first trickle that they are going to pivot the Vision Pro to an enterprise device.

They're going to drop, they're going to drop the, here's the thing is they're going to drop the consumer of it. I think that, I think, I think this is, this is the trickle. The HoloLens treatment. Which. By the way, makes more sense to me, in my opinion, um, you know, 500 device. Yeah. Yeah. You know, especially if you're, you're in this realm, you know, those are the, those are the things, you know, and the HoloLens was successful in that market.

And there's, you know, other VR devices and other startups that have done that. And maybe this is an indicator there. Now that they did show the auto manufacturer for which one it was. That's like, Hey, we're talking about a showroom. So you customize your device and blah, blah, blah, or your car or whatever, blah, blah, blah.

But I do think a lot of the pivots seem to be like, eh, maybe we should talk about enterprises over here because, you know, more enterprises can afford 3, 500 devices than other consumers. And that's not to say that it will be exclusively for that, um, at all. I don't think they're going to go down that path, but it's, it's sort of a, a little indicator, my little tingly, uh, B2B, if you will, uh, went off there.

But that, that means to say that you can always then. Uh, evolve the technology and then trickle it down and trim it down to a point that now it is kind of ready for consumer and developers have had a lot more time on it. Maybe that would have made more sense. I don't know necessarily, um, if they would have pivoted that from the original where it would be.

Uh, but I'd just be really fascinating to see how the, the vision and vision pro line evolve over the next several years. And we already know there's probably not going to be one next year. So maybe two years from now we have a ways to go, but I think people need to find the use cases and the explore more.

It's the same with VR is the same with the HoloLens with all these devices. It's any new device, new form factor, right? They need to figure that out. Uh, but I did find it interesting. That's all I'm saying. 

[00:51:54] Frank: All I'll say is cut it out, Apple. Don't, don't do this. So don't relegate it to corporate only. You're, you're shooting yourself in the foot.

It's had a rocky start, but everyone agrees. It's a fine product. It's just missing killer apps. It's missing killer experiences. Don't shoot yourself in the foot. Don't, don't throw the. Baby out with the bathwater. Is that the one? Um, don't focus on just corporate. Uh, I, I think that we developers, we will find you a killer app.

It might take us three years. We'll, if we, maybe, maybe open up the APIs a little bit, you know, let us actually program this thing and use some of its sensors. And then, you know, maybe we can create some interesting experiences for you. Uh, so please Apple. Stop shooting yourself in your foot. Open this device up to developers, let us access the cameras, let us access the sensors, and we'll build you some fun things.

Don't, don't put this down the corporate avenue. I, I get where you're coming from, James, but I, I'm so tired of. Uh, no. Enterprises having VR and consumers not. I'm a 

[00:53:02] James: B2B type of guy. I'm just saying, no, it is. It definitely is in consumers. It's already in consumers. I'm just, you know, it's an easy pivot for them to do.

Yeah, Quest agrees. 

[00:53:12] Frank: Yeah, so just don't admit defeat to Quest. Quest is doing great with consumers. You just got to compete Apple. 

[00:53:21] James: Well, I guess we'll see what happens, um, at WWDC. Um, so, and, and, you know, to me, uh, this event is my least favorite Apple event, uh, because I'm just not an iPad person. I set it up front and I'll continue again.

Just not a fan of tablet form factor. Don't need it. Don't want it. Don't, don't need it in my life. Just an extra device. And, and probably you don't need it either. Uh, that's my assumption. 

[00:53:44] Frank: What do you read in the bathtub? I love my iPads. Okay. Little, little TMI, probably my iPads don't last long. Cause I like to read them in the, uh, bathtub and they often don't survive the bubbles in the water.

[00:53:59] James: Now that would be, I am surprised. I don't think that this is IP 78, 000. That'd be cool. 

[00:54:07] Frank: You, you want to know what I'm watching for? I'm watching for, give it a high water rating, Apple. Like, I want to take this thing to the beaches. I want to keep it in the bathtub, you know? Like, I want a waterproof. Pro. Pro.

Yeah. But unfortunately pro means you shoot videos and live in a beautiful loft in New York City. 

[00:54:27] James: And it never rains ever. Well, um, let us know what you think. This is our breakdown, um, of it. Am I wrong? Should I love tablets? Should Frank go buy a new one? Are we being, am I being too mean to the Vision Pro?

Will they be enterprise? Will it be consumer? Are you going to buy a new iPad? When would, and if you are going to buy a new iPad, What iPad are you replacing? Right into the show. You can leave a comment where you can see our beautiful faces every week at youtube. com forward slash at merge screen conflict FM, just on YouTube, just search for the podcast to the show notes.

Additionally, you can subscribe on your favorite Apple device. And additionally. If you are using Apple podcasts, my good friend, uh, over at TechMeme Run Home made an interesting observation about Apple podcasts, which is if you go right now into Apple podcasts and you see merge conflict and you see a pause button.

In the top right, click on that and unpause it. What Apple has done is they said, Hey, you haven't listened to merge conflict for a while. We're just going to stop auto downloading those for you. Rude. Apple. Double check all your podcasts. Um, you know, uh, you know, I only, we're only once a month or once a week compared to tech me ride home every day, but just saying, unpause it.

Give us our download numbers, archive them, listen to all of them. We appreciate it or else we'll just continue to get destroyed in the 

[00:55:50] Frank: rain. And, and, and stop using the Apple podcast app. That, that thing's just weird. They are going to have some AI features coming up. I'll admit that are pretty clever.

Let's stop using the Apple podcast app. 

[00:56:01] James: Well, you know, about 70, 70 percent of our, of our users use the Apple podcast. 

[00:56:07] Frank: Okay. I love you all. Go try it. That's going to do it 

[00:56:10] James: for this week's Merge Conflict. All you Apple podcast users. We appreciate you. You can also be on with Patreon, patreon. com forward slash MergeConflict.

Bonus episodes, these episodes early. That's going to do it for this week. So until next time, I'm James Montemagno. And I'm Frank Krueger. Thanks for watching and listening. Peace.