James (00:08):
Frank.

James (00:08):
Why would you add to your application? Do you hate money?

New Speaker (00:13):
Cause I'm not a web developer. James, I don't write web apps because I don't know how to monetize them. And I hate ads. I just hate ads so much. And so I don't want to put ads in my apps. Is that wrong?

James (00:26):
All right. Continuation of turnip tracker value 25 Frank monetizes apps. Yes, let's you know, Frank and I were talking about the podcast, uh, before the podcast and it's really hard to understand monetization, and this is a topic that I've gotten over and over again. And in fact, when I was on my live stream talking about going freemium, we've got this question, just do ads, just do this. And I've done ads that I've done removal of ads and Frank and I just literally talked for the last 10 minutes about him, not wanting to put ads into your app. And I will give you this Frank, before I let you justify and talk about, you're not putting an ads. I also hate ads by the way. And I'm been against it nearly every single application I've ever built. But Frank, the pro about ads is that it's kind of the norm now kind of people are kind of used to that when it's not a big, large corporation

James (01:22):
making, making them to be honest with you.

Frank (01:27):
Oh boy, I can feel myself backpedaling already. I'm supposed to be defending no ads. And the truth is I don't have the greatest defense I would have and I hate them. And I don't, it's like a visceral mammalian part of my brain. I just, I can't explain it. Um, but the truth is, as you were talking there, you were making me think how there's ads and then there's ads. So like good ads and bad ads, I guess, is what I'm thinking. Um, uh, let's see. I'm thinking understand fireball. Oh gosh. Right. That's bad. That's bad. I'm actually thinking new sites on the mobile devices. Like if someone links to a news site on Twitter and I click it and the article is maybe, you know, 10% of the screen and you're trying to scroll it, but you can't because it's surrounded by ads. I guess that's like what comes to my brain when I think of ads, but it's not true. Is it? I guess you could be a little more tasteful.

James (02:27):
I, this is a good, we're going to call this tasteful advertising because you're right. I think there's, there's a very, there's a lot of different series of advertisements. If I look at my website, I have good amount of minor.com. There's basically no ads until you get to the very bottom. And there's like one. And when you go into an article, maybe there's a, you know, a tower on the right and maybe one or two ads on the bottom of the page, but I don't do those interstitials. I don't do those takeovers. I don't do those popups. I don't do those ads that people hate because they hate ads. Right? And ideally you can target the ads to maybe be something useful. I've I have clicked on ads in my life. I'm not going to lie about that because I was like, that thing's looks interesting.

James (03:16):
Um, you know, and, and, and with mobile ads, you can, you can decide if you want to have data or not like cookies. Like if you're providing them with data else, it's just going to be generic stuff. So it's not as creepy as internet ads, I think with mobile apps. But I think ads in an apps can get a bad rap because of how games put in advertisements. Um, and I think that with interstitials specifically, those are the ones that are takeover of the screen. You know, you give to wait for an advertisement to finish playing or something. Those don't make any sense for any of your applications. And that would be not what I suggest you put in, in any way. Right? And I think there's different variants of ads because when I go to the verge, when I go to in gadget, when I go to the, my normal news sites, I don't think twice about ads anymore.

James (04:06):
As long as they're not intrusive, I will say this. Um, the worst thing that I've seen recently in ads on websites has been when I'm on slick deals. And I don't think this is a slick deal thing. It's probably a whatever network they're using, but there was some political ads. And I don't appreciate that. I don't want no political ads in either way. I don't want, I don't. I just, I'm just not a big fan of political ads in general, but that is something that isn't complimentary, like when you go to other websites, maybe there's something about technology on a technology website. Well, okay. That makes sense. You know, uh, or I'm looking at recipes and there's some advertisement sponsoring HelloFresh, not a sponsor of this podcast, but you know, I think that is a way to do it. And we have ads on this podcast, Frank

Frank (04:50):
tasteful ads, James, very, very tasteful ads spoken by you eloquently off the cuff every time. They're wonderful. I mean, if you want to come and for every one of my users record a personal ad from in my app, that'd be kind of wonderful. Um, it's funny. You should mention recipe sites. That's the other one that's usually terrible. Can you even find the recipe on the recipe sites? These nails, you can not. No, but your site is, I would say it's crossed the tasteful line into Spartan. I couldn't even find the ad for a while. You might actually, James want to put the ad a little closer to the top, maybe after like the first article, just a little a week closer. I mean, if you're going to have an ad, I'm like try to get some money out of it. It's funny how quickly I turn into a capitalist.

James (05:45):
That's the thing. What do you want to get out of your advertisement? And this is what I would question you for your application. Are you attempting to, you know, make your entire profit of everything that you ever need off of this one app? Or are you trying to make supplemental income for my website? I am trying to pay my server costs and I have, for all intents and purposes figured out that these ads that I put maybe one per article cover my advertisement costs. And if I grow, if I get more users and I get more things, they will pay for them. Totally fine. And some by the way, and I can give back to charity and things like that, and then make a little bit of money and then I'm doing okay. It allows me to, to, to have multiple blogs, you know, and do nice things. So I look at your application, um, Calca is the one that we're talking about specifically kaka.io, a great application that helps you compute things for free, uh, on iOS.

Frank (06:49):
We advertised it a lot last episode, I'm talking about getting some advertisements. Yeah. Um, you know, but I was just going back to the web real quick. I was just thinking that's so cool. How you're kind of cashflow positive or at least neutral on your websites because I basically take a loss on every single one of mine and I've never, ever put an ad on one of my sites and all of a sudden, and I'm sorry, audience, that you have to hear me thinking this through. I'm like I could put ads on foo, get it to even occurred to me. There you go. Actually go to that website.

James (07:24):
I mean, Oh, he's our genius opportunities. I mean, because what you're trying to do in that case is at least make back, you know, you're stopping bucks 30 bucks a month, right? Can you make 30 bucks a month compared to like, you know, if you were to just say, here's my goal of advertisement, my goal of advertisement is simple. It is to generate enough revenue to cover my costs without driving people away. Yeah.

Frank (07:55):
Yeah. I think it's the driving away. I feel like I know when I get in, I realized what I was just about to say, uh, when I get an app that has ads in it, I immediately look to see if I can pay to get rid of the ads or I delete the app. And I just realized, boy, those are kind of both. Okay, I'll come. But uh, Oh boy, I guess ads do work for kind of forcing people to purchase the app. It's kind of a nasty little trick. Huh?

James (08:25):
So I got this recommend recommended advice from, I think it was my, one of my, most of my friends, Josh who built some pretty simple applications for like windows, desktop, um, some like, uh, chords, like, you know, he played musical chords, um, and stuff. Yeah. He had built an app and, and I think, I think it was semi. And if you're a listener and you're like, I built that app, then I'm talking about you. But I remember it was one of the first apps that was, um, paying 99 cents to remove hats. I was like, Oh, that's, that's fascinating. You know, why didn't you sell it for 99 cents? And I said, well, no one would buy it for 99 cents. And I said, well, and then I was like, well, how does it, how is it working then? And he said, you know, people will pay to get rid of the ads and you and I talked about this the other day, why do we have YouTube premium

Frank (09:15):
to get rid of the ads, James? Oh my God, what kind of society do we live in? The walls are crumbling down. I see into the matrix.

James (09:24):
But I also realized that ads are two form factors, right? Ads can be complimentary where, um, they may help find, someone may find a new service for it or in maybe like you're supporting a creator at the same time. And that's what advertisements actually are. When you go on Twitch, there's an advertisement. Sometimes that's supporting Twitch. Sometimes that's supporting the advertiser. Do you know how much money I have to pay Twitch to use their service and let them handle all the bandwidth zero, zero. So I wasn't sure if I was like missing out on the give Twitch money clubs, like I want to join that, you know, we're sort of in this society of microtransactions and I think of viewing an ad or looking at ad or even on Twitter, on YouTube, like whether is an ad or me having YouTube premium is me giving back to either the service or hopefully ideally the individual that is creating that content. It's another way of, if someone just supports you,

Frank (10:23):
it's just a little side story here, but I remember when like ads first came to mobile, there was like this one year, maybe I don't even remember how long it was, but this beautiful moment, when for some reason we'd, hadn't figured out that you could put ads and apps yet and no apps had it. And it was such a great time. And then ads came and remember that they were so unique. I was like, I'm going to click these. And I used to click the ads thinking like I'm helping the app developer by clicking all these ads. I hope that didn't last long, but I just remember that cute little anecdotal story, how naive and ignorant I was back about how all this works. I'm so far buying into your, uh, propaganda here, James. Um, I don't, I don't know. What's going to get me over the cliff to do it though, I guess. Um, I'd have to see if the ads are actually tasteful. Like I, I was joking. I don't want red and green flickering with, I don't know. What's the worst thing you could advertise. I came in, come up with anything funny all. Oh, that's disgust me. That's true.

James (11:31):
Well, you don't want something inappropriate or something that would again, drive away your customers from your ads or from your app

Frank (11:39):
with your kids. Like how do you handle ratings? Are all ads rated G are they good for kids age zero through infinity? Yeah. I mean, from my, my

James (11:54):
working with ads, especially on mobile is that usually mobile ads not always are often advertisements for other apps. Um, Oh, I like that. That's usually how it is. So normally in different actions, you'll see ads for apps that are maybe not necessarily adjacent to yours, but they could be games. It could be for something else around that user's preferences, um, in general. So you can block and allow different types of ads. So if you're like, I don't want anything ever political or I don't want this or X, Y, Z, or I only want to show things that are kid friendly. They have those controls as well, built into them.

Frank (12:35):
Okay. Okay. Uh, I think we talked about it and it lasted, we talk about placement in the app. Like I was deciding whether the main area would have an ad or if it would just be kind of one screen. Um, I guess it kinda doesn't matter cause you're either going to want to get rid of the ad or you're not, it's either gonna be toleratable or not, but sticking with the earlier advice in case you miss last week of, if I did this, I'd be kind of conservative, like your website, the ad, and kind of just one or two strategic places.

James (13:09):
Yeah. And you know, I think that's one of the cool parts about it as a, you know, you're in control of, of it, right. You're in control. If you want to do XYZ with your, with your, your advertisement. So you could just have one ad, right. And maybe that's enough to, to figure that out and just see how it works in AB tested then. And maybe it's in a place that, you know, I think what you want to do with ads, advertisements is you want to put advertisements in sections that are unintrusive in. Yeah. Non-intrusive, that would be not sure. Yeah. Because if you attempt to trick people into tapping on things, that's new, good, you know, uh, or if they accidentally tap on it, you didn't want to, that would also be a bad part, but I want to get this straight. You've never put ads into any application ever in your entire existence.

Frank (14:09):
Correct? Uh, I am a purist. I believe we're called it's, uh, it's not a cult. Um, but it's slightly a cult. What do you want me to say? Am I supposed to defend myself? I just, I don't want other people's artwork in my apps.

James (14:28):
Yeah. So what are, what are your, your reasons? I'm very fascinated because I signed, do you hate me?

Frank (14:33):
Number one, aesthetic. Honestly. Um, if my app is supposed to look gray and blue with a little things in it, then I don't want this red and green flickering thing at the bottom. Yeah. But I guess that's the whole point of an ad though, is to draw attention. So will, so it's me giving up this, um, aesthetic integrity of my app. Wow. I sound pretentious, but I mean, that's my actual excuse their, um, excuse number two. Um, I guess I don't, even though I am a ridiculous capitalist, I don't like to be perceived as such and I don't want to look like, you know, I'm, you know, what, what is it pandering for money? What's the phrase I'm looking for? Um, I don't want to look like I'm desperate. I guess maybe there's a pride element, something like that. And they're going to have to go see a psychiatrist on this one.

James (15:37):
Well, you know, I think that's a good point on your aesthetics. You're absolutely correct. You know, you don't have specific control, like 100% control over, Hey, I am going, I only want you to show this color of advertisement. So it blends into my application. Uh, that is correct. And it's the same with,

Frank (15:58):
you know,

James (15:59):
website I've ever advertisement at the same time. Cause you don't have that much control over everything there. So I think that's definitely, um, a concern to be about like, Hey, I built this beautiful thing that looks stunning. And now

Frank (16:15):
if this thing is going to make it not look good, I just keep thinking like an Atari video game. Like, you know, like someone's playing space invaders in the ad, I guess that's my mental image of what's happening. Um, but I guess I can reduce that by just making sure that it's small, not too much in the way. So even if it is aesthetically damaging, maybe you can cover it with your thumb or just don't look in that part of the screen. I don't know. It's very true. I mean,

James (16:47):
the question to ask yourself at this point, I think when it comes to advertisements or any other monetization, right? So we kind of flip this around and say, Hey, one opportunity for you to make money is advertisement inside of your application. That's one example. The other example is I think with this specific application, you've tried the other monetization methods of it, correct? You've tried paid, you tried patron. Are there any other things beyond ads that are like, Hey, I'm going to try one more thing before I fall into James's trap of putting in ads in my house.

Frank (17:29):
Yeah. We can go back to turn up episode number 40. I believe it was where we discussed, um, more of a light version of the app versus the pro version of the app. So I can make it feature limited instead of what I'm doing right now is you get the whole thing for free. Everything's wonderful. You can use all the features of it. Nothing's limited. You just have to deal with my little personal, like I have ads in the app right now, but they're just very subtle little text boxes saying, Hey, please support me. So in some regards I already do have ads in there, but um, they're subtle. Yeah. So yeah. It's feature limit or ads. I guess those are the two freemium models that we have these days, ideally. And we've been asking for this forever. Apple would have a trial period because then people could just get the app for free and then either pay for it or not want. That'd be great.

James (18:32):
Yeah. I've been, I've I've been dying for a trial. I think it trial or usage count where you can have some amount of time in the application out. They have the, you know, the, the screen time stuff would be pretty fantastical. I remember on the Nintendo DS and three DS Nintendo would have demos and you can only play the demos so many times and people, and they use those for like free trials. More of like here's a free trial. There's a demo, right. Even though a demo is really not the free game, but I'd imagine that some developers are like, Oh, just put the whole game on there as a demo, you know? Cause like you can play it four times and that's as far as you can get or you can play it for an hour. And yeah. I mean, I wish that, uh, that was, that was an option for it, but I guess that would alleviate the problem of people trying it, but will they get sticky enough to get it there? And the question I think you have to ask yourself is, okay, how many users do I want of my application? Some of what I was saying last week, how many users of this application do you want and have that? How many of them are we attempting to profit from the reason you make an app that could be wrong, Frank is that you would like to make money and income from this app? Is that correct?

Frank (19:48):
It is kind of my shtick. Um, I have, do I have any free apps right now? I mean, this one, obviously that we're talking about. Um, but I've pretty much always charged for apps because they take a ridiculous amount of time. And so I know you were giving me a softball question, but I wanted to actually take my time with it. Cause um, I have considered actually doing free free apps, you know, things just as a public service or you know, just those kinds of things, but I haven't actually released any.

James (20:23):
Yeah. Cause you have a Mo CAS that's two 99, it's a podcast application number 79 and news, by the way, uh, what it says, uh, yeah. Calca and continue as yeah, so, and fascinatingly enough, I believe that this Calca is the only Kalka that is not, and that is free. They call it out on iOS.

Frank (20:48):
So it's the only one. So Frank, if one out of your 25 apps have ads, is that the worst thing in the world when you put it that way? James you've really put me in the corner of a room. No, no, it's not so bad, but you know, it's a compromise and once you make one compromise, you start making more compromises. So am I going to fall down that slippery slope will, you know, in three months I'm like, Hey James, it turns out interstitial ads make you a lot more money. We should start putting interstitial ads into our apps. Like, well, what if that happens? I'm scared we could put them into our podcast, like this weak spot that I'm just kidding. There's obvious. So funny. Ironic.

James (21:32):
Yeah. Here's, here's what I think. Okay. Is here's an idea. I got this idea Frank and I, I think there's a might be good and our listeners can chime in all over the place. Um, Oh, you know what audio tales is that a free app, you know, two 99, um, and all your apps are paid. Huh? Always be charging, always be charging. Um, so here's my, here's my thoughts ready is what if for this version, I like your, I like your thought here of the freemium model, similar to similar to what I'll, I'm going to be doing it with Island tracker. Um, what if you start with one, cause here's your problem that you have is how long is it going to take you to develop new features, to charge for that instead of just getting some stuff now? So the question is, can you put it in like one feature, right. And ads, and then you would get a pro and you can say, Hey, pro you'll always get these features and it'll be ad free. And then in the future, maybe you have like 20 features and you're like, wow. So many people have gone to pro because of the great features. And then you can just drop the ads. Right. So it's sort of like,

Frank (22:41):
yeah. Multistage deployment. Yeah. Um, I mean, there's, I have a list of 200 features. People want, it's never a desperate there. I don't have any like, um, what I think of like, is this a phrase temple features like, you know, um, huge ones, you know, like plotting once a big feature, epics epics. Is that the phrase allergy? Yeah. If I was to go to my scrum roots, if you will. Yeah. I actually have one Epic feature that I think will be transformative and make the app especially a special, but uh, it's going to require a ton of work and there's not going to happen until I finished these two other things that I'm working on right now. Uh, so that's going to have to be delayed side. I'd have to find something that's smaller than an Epic perhaps. Um, uh, a tail. Is that a tail? Just a feature. Frank, I believe they call us features and just normal features.

James (23:46):
Usually usually Epic and Epic has like multiple features associated with it.

Frank (23:51):
I see. I see with servers involved usually. Oh, you gotta have servers. Um, yeah, I mean, um, I, I like, I don't know if I actually see too much of a difference between pro add a feature and pro remove ads like pro could just being removed the ads. Like I feel like that's sufficient. Um, whereas an app, like I circuit that I have, it's a little easier to think conceptualize a feature packs, like, you know, cause I could bundle elements together and sell that as a feature pack. That's a little easier for me to think of in those terms, but if I were to put ads in it all, I'm not sure I've even bother with the pro tier. Like it would just be ads or no ads thinking out loud.

James (24:38):
Yeah. I mean, in that regard, you know, that's a good point is, is when is it, you know, like for Island tracker, right? I'm about to do a pro mode and a part of my pro modal. It says always ad free. Right? I'm not adding ads in the free version, but, but just so you know, if you do upgrade a pro, it will always be ad free. You know what I mean? It's a promise. It's a guarantee

Frank (25:04):
I'm trying, Oh God, I'm trying to not think of this movie. Nevermind. Okay. Um, I like guarantees. I like that. It's a little disingenuous. So you better put ads into the free version at some point so that people actually get something. Yeah. I was my second, my lawyer. Um, I'm just kidding. I would never do that. I, I like, I think you're convincing me. Do we have to, there we talk about particulars. Like, do you have any preferred platforms on iOS for doing ads? Do you want to talk about that?

James (25:42):
Yeah, sure. I mean, so the only ones I've used ever, um, have been, they used to be called ad mob. It's still ad mob, but you use the Firebase ads STK to incorporate ads mob into your app is like Google. I don't know what they're doing over there, but um, I wish we had talked about it a little bit last week. I wish that Apple still had their ads because I feel like those would have been the best, you know, to do. And I wish that search ads could also be an ad. Like how cool would that be? Because then it's other apps. And you could say, I would like apps in this category, you know, and other technology stuff that's maybe complimentary. And that could be really beneficial. I think that that would be a huge win

Frank (26:26):
Apple. Come on Tim. Yeah. Wink, wink. No, I mean back when Apple did their ads, I was waiting for that feature. I, they didn't have search ads back then, but I was waiting for, Hey, you want to advertise on other people's apps? Like heck yeah, I do. Especially if know, you can pick the other apps or things like that. I always thought that would have been a wonderful system. Somehow Apple, Apple ads didn't survive though. Huh? I wonder what the, I wonder what the error was. I wonder why it didn't work. I don't know. Yeah. Well, Google is good at ads, so they're just not good at versioning things and naming things. I'm a little hesitant to put a dependency on a Google thing because that just means in a year it's going to change names and version numbers and another year names and version numbers, but TIS the price of putting in ads. Um, how long have they been stable for like, can this thing? Well, I literally have to change them out every year or have they been more staple than that?

James (27:32):
This is a great question. I'm so glad that you asked because we thought that we were not going to be able to talk about this for 30 minutes, but you good, sir. Have just brought, um, the catalyst up, I would say, uh, yeah, I would say with, with ads specifically on mobile, you run into a few different situations. Uh, primarily there are operating changes and different requirements that may be Apple will put in there specifically around the latest was like web the web viewer or whatever. They had a change for that. That was a breaking change. I would say that to put ads into your app, you are committing to updating your application and the SDK once every 18 months, 12, 12 to 18 months, I would say. And Google usually gives you a few months and if you don't update the STK, what will happen is the answers won't get served.

Frank (28:30):
Okay. So it's hopefully a tiny bit graceful 18 months. I think I can find that. I try to, I try to get decent updates for all my apps every six months. So I think I could swing it as long as it's all in a new get and it all happens automatically for me, wink, wink, nudge, nudge it better work that way. Oh, that's stupid web viewer. I totally forgot. I need to get that out of my apps. I have that in all of my apps everywhere and that's like, Oh yeah. Uh, but like we have three months, six months, they're going to stop accepting apps with it pretty soon. Yeah. Okay. Okay, James. Um, so I'm going to put in a bunch of effort, annoyed a lot of people and make a dollar a month. Yup. This is going to be great. Yup. Good trade offs. Yes. I guess that's why I haven't done it. I just, I'm afraid. It's just not worth it. Like it's not worth annoying people. It's not worth, I guess there's only one way to know just talking in circles. It's very true. There's only one

James (29:42):
way to know which is if you don't put it in, you don't know. So yeah. I guess there is Facebook ads. Maybe there's things, something called audience network as well. That's an option. So if you know you like,

Frank (29:56):
yeah, I don't know. I don't like Google, but I like Facebook a bit less. So I think, yeah, I'll go with the Googs on that on

James (30:06):
I think maybe there might be a Amazon one perhaps. Uh, you know, I, I, you know, I was just Googling around and I said, Hey, you know, adds iOS. And there's like Amazon and Facebook and Google and almost all of them are Google. There used to be Yahoo, but I think they bought flurry. I don't know. I don't think they still do it anymore. That was one a while ago. Um, but surprisingly the, I would say that the options out there are pretty slim unless you're in the game space. And I believe the gaming, there's a lot of gaming specific, um, advertising networks out there. How interesting, whereas like just general mobile stuff is there, but maybe, you know, you could first experiment with putting ads on Phuket. I bet that that would do very well,

Frank (30:53):
you know, for food. Good. I always wanted to do a community ads where other people could just pay to like promote their library or promote whatever they wanted. I wanted to be the casino, not the, not the player in that case. Uh, and I still think that that would be a nice thing, but until I get around to programming such a large system, maybe you're right. Just put in ads. So I'd say that's usually the other excuse I have for not having done it because I have grander visions and I just haven't gotten to those visions. And that's why there are no ads there. Oh boy. So everyone, you can blame James. If everything I produce from now on is just covered in ads. It's now all his fault.

James (31:39):
You're welcome. You're welcome. I mean, what I would be really fascinated back and maybe we can get some additional justification because I am a smaller sample size. Right. And we probably have listeners of our tens of thousands of listeners that have built applications that have put ads I've put in pro features have done this stuff. I think that could be used super useful is, is let us know how it goes. In fact, on our turnip tracker series, 85 edition, if you want to send us a sound clip of one minute long of what your experience is, I think this would be super fun. I think it would be a great way to get our listeners involved and give us their experience because dang it, Frank, you and I talk on this podcast for hours every single week. And I would love to get some more community interaction. So we want to record a little sound clip. We'll play it back. We'll see how it goes. That that'd be fine. What do you think? Just came up with that? Yeah,

Frank (32:28):
I like it. I like mixing things up and I've always wanted a sound board and it's true. We are coming up on the turnip tracker anniversary, so we should have an anniversary special.

James (32:40):
And I think it's the silver anniversary right now, but you know that gold will come up sooner soon. There you go. Yeah. Just put it in Franklin. I like it. I like it. So everyone recorded your record, your best audio and let us know. What are we asking people to do? Tell us whether they like ads or not. That are not good poll. Now, I don't know their experience with ads. If you're a developer listening to the podcast and you've put ads in your application or you've done the pro model, let us know your experience with it. How has it gone? Did you find that the effort was outweighed by, you know, the maintenance of it, um, or that you thought that it went really well? Also, maybe you our listener, right? That does not a developer. That's. That's awesome. Let us know what you think of these crazy ridiculous ideas we've been discussing and tell Frank that it's awesome or it's terrible. Like, are you someone that is firmly against ads for Lee firmly against the remove and add button? Or do you think it's a great idea and a great way to support people? So it's more than deal like ads or not. We're talking about the experience here, Frank, we want, we want to, uh, know your pricing models, your experience. We want your experience. That's what it is because there's yeah. I don't want to gamble. So I'd rather have other people's experience and history to go from.

James (34:08):
Right? It's all a gamble are at scam now. No, I don't think so. Because of that definition, I think that they would like show up and then you would, you would make a penny.

Speaker 4 (34:19):
So yeah,

James (34:20):
it is random chance of weather, whatever. Let's not go there, the ad itself. All right. People probably find this relatively entertaining next week on the podcast source generators, because Frank, we need to definitely talk about something else besides advertisements or everyone's going to leave. Well, find a way to turn it into ad tracking somehow for generators.net five source generator ad tracker next week on the podcast. But I was going to do it for this week's merge conflict. Thank you so much for sticking in there with us. We really, really appreciate it.

Frank (34:51):
So it's all next time on Jay's Matson Magnum and I'm Frank Krueger. Thanks for listening. Peace.